And so it starts. Zondervan and Thomas Nelson are being sued by a practicing homosexual (oh, excuse me, he objects to that term), they are being sued by an effiminate man out of Carlton Michigan. The basis of the suit? The two major Christian publisher are violating his constitutional rights and causing him emotional pain. How are they doing this? They publish Bibles that refer to homosexuality as a sin.
Now I’m not a legal authority and I don’t even play one on television. But it seems to me that law suits (now one of America’s favorite passtimes) may be the way for the secularists to shut us up and shut down the supply of bibles.
Unless the judge dismisses the suit as frivolous (I think that’s the term), Zondervon and Nelson are going to have to spend money on addressing the suit. And the homosexual/leftist camp has proven itself to be quite capable of tying up activities of which they disapprove. For instance, when is the last time we built a nuclear power plant or a petroleum refinery?
Here’s a rather depressing view of the future. Just as leftists have worked at trying to sue gun manufacturers when their products are used in a crime, I can see these same leftists and secularists suing publishing companies to shut down the production of bibles.
There really seems to be something about the homosexual activists. They do indeed rail at not being accepted as normal. Tolerance is not good enough for them. They demand approval and the mantle of normalcy. Adulterers are generally satisfied at not being stoned. And none of them announce that they are in an adulterous relationship and expect people to praise them. None of them flaunt their adulterous behavior (unless they are Hollywood actors and the such). The homosexuals insist on flaunting their sin - and insisting that we approve of their sin and call it normal.
Count on these people, and people who they support (Leftists like Obama) trying to do even more along these lines.
Oh, and start memorizing your Bible.
Note: I should poitnt out that so far (as of 10 July), Mr. Fowler has not published anything in the blog he maintains on Obama’s site.
(A tip of the hat to Search4Truth for spotting the article and bringing it to my attention. )
that is extremly funny, so funny i forgot to laugh
this is incredibly insane
if you think you’re normal why pray tell
do you have to ask for normalcy
that sounds abnormal
I’m going to join the suit! I have a few passages that have made me uncomfortable my entire life. Can I have them removed? The admonition against gluttony, lust and evil speech are particularly annoying.
Homosexual = effeminate? You’re ignorance and bigotry is astounding. I’m sure you miss Jesse Helms, but I’m glad you are keeping his good work going.
Pathetic.
(MN: According to Strong’s:
Greek word (transliterated) is “malakos”.
The way the word is used in the New Testament and the generally accepted uses of the word in koine:
1) soft, soft to the touch
2) metaph. in a bad sense
a) effeminate
1) of a catamite [ Catamite = a boy or youth who is in a sexual relationship with a man (American Heritage Dictionary ]
2) of a boy kept for homosexual relations with a man
3) of a male who submits his body to unnatural lewdness
4) of a male prostitute
You must also be a liberal, given your inability to actually engage in discussion and disagreement without insult and without dealing with the actuall issues. It would seem that I am not ignorant. And likely I’m not a bigot either. That which I am saying matches the Bible and the dictionary. The fact that you don’t like what I am saying, doesn’t make what I am saying wrong.
In the future, try to deal with the issues. Don’t revert to insults at the drop of a hat.
By the way, I rather admired Jesse Helms. He was a better man than Obama…or McCain. )
PH - do you have anything else to throw out here? Or was that just a spineless drive-by commenting?
Melvin, in instances where PH’s throw out their abusive ad homs without any argument, like “ignorance” and “bigotry,” i usually say, “really?” and “so?” respectively. in other words, am i really ignorant of the issues surrounding these controversies? if so, how? and when it comes to the accusation of narrow-mindedness or bigotry, i say, “so what? what’s the problem with bigotry? if my Lord would have qualified as a bigot by your standards when he said ‘no man can come to the Father but by me’ then i am more than pleased to be one.” the PH apart from divine revelation has no basis to condemn your bigotry. he can only throw his moral opinion forth as his argument, but of course, in debate opinion amounts to nothing. in order to condemn any of what you say as immoral, he must presuppose Christian ethics, and the entire Bible by implication. but if he does this, he contradicts himself by affirming and denying the bible at the same time.
Didn’t expect someone with the handle of practicing heterosexual to go into a tissy over gay classification, odd indeed.
I agree with everything you’ve said, with the exception being, your admiration for Helms, who was indeed a dyed in the wool bigot.
Hello, Mr. Jones:
This Marine has a solution for “drive-bys” such as your buddy, Practicing Heterosexual, but I have recently publicly repented of this behavior (levity).
1Peter 1:14-16 are some very challenging verses for me to obey. (Lord, you really don’t mean in all [my] behavior?)
Peter
Peter, you’re a mess brother LOL!!
that, and he got up off his face too soon. LOL
Hello, GaryV:
I agree with you, brother, and it is very difficult to be the sole member of the club.
Peter
“Get ready…” you know the rest.
Indeed, time to start memorizing the Bible!
The powers of darkness did not come on us suddenly. It is an inch, then a yard, then a mile, then neighborhood, then a city, then a state, and then a nation. Satan has been pushing and pushing his antichrist agenda and eventually Satan’s agenda will become worldwide with the antichrist, and the false prophet.
Right now, the true Church is being assaulted on various fronts! So much false doctrine has permeated our nation, if it had not been for the LORD on our side where would we be?
You are 100% right Melvin, this is just the beginning.
2 Timothy 3:13.
I suggest people start buying as many Bibles as you can and hide them for the near appointed times!
People do not want to hear this because it does not sound like the love of GOD, but we are at war folks…not with flesh and blood but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. Ephesians 6:12
Melvin and the listening audience, please take no offense to the quotes from the movie Lord of the Rings 2: The 2 Towers. King Theoden(the Asleep Church dwelling peacefully): “I will not risk open war”
Aragon(the remnant Awake sounding the Alarm Church): “Open war is upon you whether you would risk it or not.”
Melvin,
Yes, this is depressing, but it’s about time. God simply must save His own name in this country. To do so He will have to do one of two things. One, start a new movement outside of the Evangelical mess that is so markedly different that no one will think the new movement has anything to do with Modern Evangelicalism. In this way, the true gospel of faith leading to repentance and holiness will no longer be tinged with the poison of Benny Hinn and John Haggee. Or, two, He will have to bring severe persecution so that the Evangelical mess is wiped away so that the gospel is once again clear to the people of this country, or atleast available again to them.
Right now the average non-Christian has so little chance of knowing what the true gospel is because of all the junk layered on top of it. I pray regularly that God will restore His name. And that will mean the Evangelical mess has to go. We have blackened His precious name.
And to tell you the truth, the publishers have done a lot of the blackening. They publish Emergents and the blab-it-and-grab-it preachers. It is so obvious to the world that most Evangelical leaders are liars just trying to get rich and famous that God’s name is cursed and laughed at.
So be it. God will judge us.
In Christ,
Phil Perkins.
Melvin, I mentioned earlier the true Church being attacked on many fronts–well, I forgot to mention the inside enemies to CHRIST that scatter and not gather.
Matthew 12:30
Take a look at these 2 links. This is right around our neck of the woods.
Black Church Summit
(MN: When you read over the planned workshops for the summit, pay close attention to what the organizers of the event have planned with respect to homosexuality [3rd workshop]. They want to firgure out: “…how to answer the many questions about being both a homosexual and a Christian. How can the church play a role in creating an inclusive, affirming place for all of God’s children?” Notice the assumption - from the “leaders” of the church - that one can be a maturing Christian and a practicing homosexual. Yeah, they just poured another barrel of oil on the slippery slope. )
CNSNews Article
The articles have the seductive word “INCLUSION” which equals COMPROMISE! The 3rd paragraph in the 2nd article is Utterly Disturbing!
We must watch and pray lest we enter into temptation! Mark 14:38
Hello, EnochWalked:
You wrote: Right now, the true Church is being assaulted on various fronts!
When you give the order to “Fix Bayonets!” make sure to use your “command voice” so as to penetrate the din of battle, brother.
Melvin,
Here are two more quick thoughts. First, we shouldn’t be doing business as Christians or as Christian groups with Zondervan or Thomas Nelson on the basis of I Cor. 5 and II John 10-11. This is because they knowing publish Emergent authors and present them as Christian writers, while posing as Christian publishers. This puts them off limits to us. (There is much more–study the passages yourselves, along with Deut. 12-13, Joshua, and Judges.)
And second, Christians as a group (i exclude you) need to be reminded that popularity with the world is a sign of being God’s enemy, as Enoch Walked so aptly pointed out.
God bless,
Phil Perkins
Saints, I was reflecting over what’s happening before our eyes, the HOLY SPIRIT brought to remembrance the promises of Psalm 37! Hallelujah! GOD will take care of HIS own! We have nothing to fear! Keep sounding the Alarm, Keep warning the Sheep Melvin!
I was impressed to do a key word search in the KJV Bible for “provoke, provokes, provoked, and provoking.” These forms of provoke are found 82 times with 13 applying to men provoking men, good and evil. The other 69 gives the account of men provoking GOD to (in order of rank) 1. Anger 2. Wrath 3. Jealousy.
False teachers/prophets, government leaders, judges, school boards, etc. and all the other blind men leading the blind in this nation are provoking the LORD GOD to anger, wrath, and jealousy. Well we all know what happened in the Bible to men and nations that provoked the LORD GOD to anger, wrath, and jealousy!
Those two publishers have the right to publish the works of others (The Bible) and without the assumption that they endorse or affirm those beliefs found therein.
It is as if a publisher were to publish a book on Yoga. That does not mean the publisher endorses Yoga as a practice or as a beneficial concept. You make your own judgments. The same with these publishers regarding the Bible. They may not agree with its contents and that does not expose them to legal liability under the lst amendment unless they endorse seditious materials or the overthrow of the government by violent means. The Bibles endorses neither such views. If the court had any sense, they would dismiss this action as a frivolous lawsuit and tell this aggrieved person to sue the author of the specific book of the Bible that he claims is/has injured him. That would like suing the US government for publishing and affirming the constitution but yet that constitution once spoke demeaningly of black people as 3/5 ths of a person. No publisher has a duty to self censor all of its to be published materials because it may offend some group, real or imagined. The Bible is not theirs (the publishers) to own and thus as third parties they are not responsible for its content or how a reader considers its content as being offensive or affirmative.
Sadly enough, this lawsuit is the symptom of a larger problem. Until we as a society recognize the vast difference between tolerance and acceptance we will continue to have these issues come up.
BlackandReformed………public apology brother!! I wrongly thought you were referencing the propriety of Jakes meeting with SoulForce through his representatives and dining with them. Sometimes it’s hard to follow the chain of statement/responses when ndew comments get added between by the time everything gets posted.
Sorry about that brother………I’m duly chastised!!
Hey B&R,I missed this comment………..here goes.
(B&R) Also Gary V,
Tell me something. You seem to be a very astute bible teacher. So are you saying what you are doing in Church Discipline?
1. Show me how this form of Church discipline is biblical?
(GV) What form?? To what are you referring?? We’renot engaged in church discipline here. We’re involved in warning against wolves in accordance with Acts 20:31, 1 Peter 2, the Book of Jude, etc.
Two different things entirely.
(B&R) 2. What steps have you taken to ensure the discipline is carried out?
(GV) Church discipline is a function of Elders within Jakes’ phony denomination. Of course, Jakes has put himself above everyone in his self-invented denomination, so the point is moot. Since I am not Biblically responsible to discipline Jakes, I’m at a loss as to what your point may be. However, warning the church of wolves, and judging the doctrine and fruit of ministers/congregants is certainly the responsibility of the church. (1 Cor 5:12-13)
(B&R) 3. What is your steps to reconcile Mr. Jakes back to the “body of Christ”.
(GV) It is not my responsibility to reconcile Jakes with the Body of Christ. That is the responsibility of those who are his overseers. Of course,he has no overseers by his own machinations, so he continues in his error.
Jakes has been confronted repeatedly and publicly for well over a decade about his departures from the Faith from innumerable parts of the Church. I believe the admonition from Scripture now is to treat him as a publican and a heathen (Mt 18:17)
Why would you think any of us are involved in church discipline??
(B&R) 4. What other Christians (in his local gathering and others) have you enlisted to ensure that this discipline is carried out and when will you know if he has repented of the sins he is being disciplined for?
(GV) Again, Jakes has been confronted repeatedly already. In fact, even the earring flap where he deceitfully airbrushed out the offending jewelry came about because he was confronted widely and criticized for wearing it. Repentance would constitute public acknowledgment, just as Paul publicly confronted Peter for public transgressions and specifically commanded that public sin in the pulpit be confronted publicly in 1 Tim 5:19-21. What is it precisely you feel is lacking?? The minimal command of 2 or 3 witnesses has been multiplies a thousand fold over the years as well as in the episode under discussion here.
He has surely heard it as evidenced by his attempts at deceit (had he not heard the outcry, there would have been no wielding of the airbrush), those with whom he serves in his phony self-styled denomination (which denies the Personhood of Christ) have surely heard the outcry as well. What precisely do you see as lacking in the Mt 18 chain??
Are you suggesting that Jakes is beyond criticism or critical analysis of his heresies unless by those who actually spoke about it in his presence or confronted him in person??
His refusal to reform his Oneness doctrine or his psychobabbling sermons or his Word of Faith spew after a multitude of witnesses over a multitude of years has well fulfilled MT 18,and now he is open to public rebuke and the warnings of those concerned for the sheep.
Paul never personally confronted the man living with his father’s wife in the Corinthian church, yet he had no hesitation in “outing”him and warning the church over the leavening influence in the church of allowing this to continue. Why?? Because it was already common knowledge and publicly reported, and therefore the witnesses against him had already spoken.
(B&R) Exactly who is being disciplined Soul Force or Jakes or both? I am confused how church discipline came up in the conversation.
(GV) Ahhhhhhhh………OK,now I see. This runs back to confusing what comments you were answering originally. It seemed to me that you were saying that Jakes SHOULD have allowed the meeting and luncheon with SoulForce because you immediately wrote a post after this action was criticized about how God is good to everyone and doesn’t reject sinners.
If your comment was not in reference to SoulForce, I’m still not certain what precisely you were addressing. Maybe you can clarify this for me??
I do it all the time no problem and really no apology needed.
Thanks brother!! Still a bit at a loss as to your response to be honest.
This is going to get worse. I promise
B&R, here are the two questions you asked in reference to SoulForce’s meeting with Jakes.
(B&R)
For discussion purposes let me ask:
1. What was the outcome of his discussion with the “gay” christian group?
(GV) THIS was what I was addressing…….the outcome of the meeting and meal is meaningless in the context of the Biblical command NOT to meet nor eat with those who call themselves brothers but live in sexual sin.
1Cr 5:9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:
1Cr 5:10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world.
1Cr 5:11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.
How could the outcome of a meeting matter when the meeting itself was in rebellion to God’s command??
(B&R) 2. Is it wrong for Christians to jump on the “secular” bandwagon to fight aids? The reason I ask is because we feed the homeless and the bible COMMANDS all men to work and feed themselves.
(GV) Here is the second point to which I was responding. The Bible does not command all men to work and feed themselves, it commands Christians to work and feed themselves, and church discipline enters here for those who refuse. But for those in the world who refuse to work we are free to feed them.
(B&R) We know most of them can work but won’t work do we allow them to starve? I believe we are to have a heart for those who have AIDS just like we have a heart for all who sin effects.
(GV) Here is the 3rd issue I addressed. Having a CHRISTIAN heart for those with AIDS is not ignoring the Biblical command to preach repentance and sexual abstinence in lieu of adopting the world’s worship of further sexual sin with a latex sheath as their protection. This is what Jakes did when he went along with the world’s method as opposed to preaching Christ, and excused it by saying the Bible doesn’t even address AIDS.
Caring for the AIDS victim while denying the Scriptural answer as Jakes has done (even unto denying there IS a Biblical answer) is throwing a BandAid on a gunshot wound. It doesn’t merit any more consideration than having a Moonie do it,since he denies the Scriptural answer as well. It is not an act of Christian charity, and is not analogous to what the Bible said about not feeding those who refuse to work (which isn’t addressed to the world anyway). I hope this makes my responses more clear.
paisano, why do you say we are free to feed someone in the world who can work but WONT work? to me, this just encourages laziness, and moochability.
and btw, i agree that there should not have been any reason to dine w/ soulforce in the first place. (is it just me, or is there something fishy about their name?) i’m angry about all this homosexual “christian” mess! God no more has any practicing homosexual children than He does holy whores, consecrated thieves, pious pimps, virtuous adulterers, or God-fearing liars.
i really hate that this filthy lifestyle is being forced upon the Church. and as i said before, i will say again- for those who believe they were born “that way”, you must be born-again.
I’m with you Mrs Mav. This is a sick disgusting trend.
The words homosexual and christian do not belong together. I love the word moochability by the way.
Mav,there’s no directive in Scripture forbidding the feeding of the indolent in the world, only in the church.
It’s always fruitless to try to get the world to do what the church is commanded to do. They can’t.
If we were to cease feeding or ministering to the physical needs of all the unsaved who didn’t follow all the Bible’s commands to believers,there wouldn’t be anyone left for us to help.
GV,
There must first be a process in all church discipline brother. Maybe Jakes will no longer eat with them after exposing there fallacy and calling them to repent. I am saying you just can’t say do meet with them. Because 1 Corinthians 5-6 and the brother in sexual sin had been given plenty of time to repent. You see if Soulforce wanted to meet with me I would talk with them because this is the first time I ever heard of them. Chruch discipline is a process that can take months to years. Most read Paul’s letter and say you “you see his sinned and he was kicked out the next day” this is false. This went from a sexual relationship to her moving in with this fella, then Paul says hey you guys aren’t loving this fella you are actually destoying him by allowing him to fellowship with you.
2. I never said you shouldn’t call people to abstiance and sexual purity and that is the way we fight aids. My issue was is joining forces to help those who are infected with virus to get the neccesary care. So I would not agree with those who say “condoms and safe sex” but I would partner with those providing the medicine to help fight the virus.
Angela,
I am sick of the church that is full of adulterers (those who were divorced and remarried but allowed back into the church). You see homosexuality is no more filthy than adultrey, lust (which is adultrey if you are married) pornography, heterosexual fornication and the like. This are all “filthy” but for some reason these take a back burner to homosexuality.
lionel, i don’t know if you’re playing devil’s advocate or not but i think you know the difference is that no other group you mentioned is fighting to legitimize their unsavory lifestyle or trying desperately to force Christians to accept their behavior as normal.
i never said homosexuality was less filthy than other sexual sins. Gal. 5:19-21 lists the works of the flesh and warns of the consequences of practicing them. the homosexual is unrepentant and says we must accept their behavior. smh, i won’t do it.
You haven’t seen Pastors fighting for safe sex? You don’t see divorces on the rise? You don’t see a church packed with people shacking up? You need to go to your local church. By the way the “church” I use that term loosely has been open to homosexuality since I can remember. James Cleveland and those who supported him have been “cool” with this lifestyle for years. churches (lower case on purpose) have been packed full of homosexuals in their choirs for years. SoulForce is a collective effort but the push has been going on for as long as I have been born.
ok, lionel- now i KNOW you’re playing devil’s advocate. you know full well what i am saying and what i am not.
i think my point is clear.
Lionel, it’s no mystery who SoulForce is brother. It’s Jakes’ responsibility to vet who he is going to meet with,isn’t it?? I mean, I just can’t walk in and have a meeting with his top staff and a little luncheon to boot, right??
C’mon now………that’s taking the benefit of the doubt to an extreme. Jakes knew precisely who SoulForce was, as did the staff he relies on to investigate these things before having meetings and luncheons set up. It’s not like they just strolled in off the street and the top staff had a meeting and lunch prepared that day for whoever happened to pop in.
I didn’t say that Jakes couldn’t meet with SoulForce or eat with them.The Bible did. The Bible didn’t say just one meeting and a snack.
I hear you on this comment:
am sick of the church that is full of adulterers (those who were divorced and remarried but allowed back into the church). You see homosexuality is no more filthy than adultrey, lust (which is adultrey if you are married) pornography, heterosexual fornication and the like. This are all “filthy” but for some reason these take a back burner to homosexuality.
But I believe Mel may have said it some time before none of those you mention try to force us to accept it as normal or not being sinful.
“Feed the flock, not on the flock.”
I cannot believe this?? In America…the Land of the Free….this is madness…and I say that as a Christian Canadian…this is the type of stuff we see up here in Canada!
And so it indeed begins…
Even if this is thrown out, you know the enemy of our souls will impel more and more people to start using this tactic…
Indeed, the Bible is in some ‘free’ Western Countries deemed as hate speech in many quarters….
As in the days of Noah my friends….
Blessings
Today, the homosexual bishop from New Hampshire was here in London, and quite frankly, I’m stunned that he can still even utter the name of Jesus when he openly spits in the face of the same Jesus!
There is nothing natural about homosexual behaviour - dare I say, when I read Romans 1 and 1 Cor 6, it clearly says on black-on-white that no homosexual will enter heaven and that such behaviour is a result of God’s active judgement!
Yeah i’m in London right now and saw him on BBC this morning, a young man was ‘heckling’ him while he was at a service speaking (cant call it preaching) after which he said to the reporter that he wondered what may have been so troubling in the young man’s past to warrant that sort of behaviour. Talk about brazen.
I remember seeing a list of oxymorons years ago in a readers digest can we add Gay Christian to the list?
“Feed the flock, not on the flock.”
Msamu, unless I’m mistake, you came HERE. I’m not on YOUR SITE. YOU CAME HERE………..so if you won’t answer questions HERE, why COME HERE??
When I have enough time to waste on eschatological idiocy, I’ll be sure to visit your little site. In the meantime YOU ARE HERE, NOT at YOUR site where questions and answers are at YOUR discretion. HERE you ANSWER or accept the fact that no one will take you seriously. Not that there’s much of a fall from where you sit now.
And again……….using little words……..you are NOT standing on the Word because WITHOUT those men whose learning you disdain (which is much of the problem for your other doctrinal messes) you couldn’t READ THE BIBLE MIKEY.
Hey Doug but so is:
1. Gossip
2. Envy,
3. Deceit
4. Slanders
5. the boastful
6. and disobedient children
Romans 1:29b
They are gossips, 30 slanderers, haters of God, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, 31 foolish, faithless, heartless, ruthless. 32 Though they know God’s decree that those who practice such things deserve to die, they not only do them but give approval to those who practice them.
I don’t think that you do understand what I am saying Mav and no I am not “playing” anything. The same abomination that homosexuality covers all sexual sin and these others listed in Romans 1 fall under also.
Not to mention Doug God adds more to those sins such as homosexuality in 1 Corinthians 6.
What I am saying Mav is that it seems like there is a utter disgust with homosexuality and not with other sins. God includes them in the same list of other sins but you only mention homosexuality as being “filthy”. All sin is filthy and our works apart from being covered with Christ blood is filthiness to God. So Doug the same way a gossiper, self-righteous person, slander, jealous person and boastful person can utter Christ’s name so can a homosexual. Lets not forget we too were dead in our sins and I know I was guilty to singing songs, and reading my bible and going to “church” while at the same time I was full of many of these things (exept homosexuality I was a heterosexually immoral individual).
(MN: The disgust here (with mrs. mav) I believe is that the homosexual denies there is anything wrong with what they are doing. I suggest we would be equally put off if someone said “I am a Gossiping Christian” as though the condition was completely acceptable. Part of the difficulty is that we aren’t fighting to make sure that gossiping is seen in the same light as homosexuality. We are fighting to make sure that homosexuality, like sin, is still seen as a sit at all. The homosexual insists that we see it as normal. But like gossiping, it is not normal. It is sin. Yet the homosexual denies this. )
lionel, my apologies. i really thought you were playing games. i’m glad you’re not and that you are saying what you are in earnest.
now as far as why it “seems” as if there is an utter disgust for homosexual activity more than others is because your perception may be off. true Christians find their sins utterly disgusting- i know i do. paul picks it up in Romans 7 and says, the good that i would- i do not, but the EVIL i HATE, that’s what i do. oh wretched man that i am! (this is how i feel when i have yielded to the same sin repeatedly. i don’t excuse it with the rationalization that “that’s just the way i am”. this may sound a bit contradictory but i even confess to the Lord when i LOVE a particular sin or more. the thing is, i know it’s evil to love sin- so i HATE when i love sin. i’m still convicted by my Lord and desire to be cleansed.
bytheway, although i initially said that homosexuality was filthy, i added that i didn’t believe it was less filthy than all other sins. the context in which i singled it out had to do with them forcing Christians to embrace them as brothers and sisters without acknowledging their behavior as ungodly.
we all struggle with sin to one degree or another but we KNOW that it’s sin. the “whitest lie” is still a lie and God is grieved by it. overeating is still defiling the temple of the Holy Spirit. the point is we know when we’re sinning and we’re not parading our particular sin of choice up and down city streets and fighting tooth & nail to silence our critics and those who would dare oppose us.
just look at how far this foolishness has gone. i hate the fact that homosexuals are so delusional that they really believe they are married or that they can worship God in that unrepentant state. Matt.19:4-5 John 4:24 John 9:31 and i hate that they want us to co-sign on their delusional dotted line. i won’t do it.
and brother, i can’t forget where Christ has brought me from. i can’t forget that i was dead in trespasses in sins. i can’t forget that it’s no goodness of my own (not that i ever had any) that i’ve been redeemed. i don’t mind being reminded but i haven’t forgotten. :o)
melville, thanx for you mn. ok, i’m through with this.
(MN: Good comment. I think you did a good job of clarifying. And I can see you are worked up about it. You actually used some capital letters. Wow! )
Now I understand what you guys are saying. What I read was “I am disgusted with THESE homosexuals”! If we are fighting the idea that this is an acceptable lifestyle I stand with all who posted here. All lifestlyes of sin are unacceptable and it is true that many homosexuals have tried to creep this devilish doctrine into the church by either strongarming them or putting pro homosexual leaders in place of influence. Any leader within the Christian church who would not openly rebuke such leaders is a wolf himself and should be marked and disowned as a brother/sister in the faith.
Much luv Mrs. Mav and Melville!
-Now I understand what you guys are saying. What I read was “I am disgusted with THESE homosexuals”!
*I can be disgusted by other acts of sin, and still find a personal disgust for homosexuality, that supercedes that of heterosexual fornication, simply because of what it entails.
In other words, even though fornication is a sin, the natural act commited in fornication, can become holy and undefiled, if the man and the woman, engaging in pre-marital sex, were to get married.
HOWEVER, two men, and two women, engaging in their type of sex, will never be sanctified, holy, or blessed, outside of the marriage covenant, or inside the marriage covenant-BECAUSE THEIR DESIRES ARE JUST UNNATURAL, AND COUNTERPRODUCTIVE TO PROCREATION, AND THE DESIGN THAT GOD CREATED IN THE GARDEN OF EDEN, BEFORE THE LAW EVEN CAME INTO EXISTENCE!
This is why heterosexual human beings, even though they may be disgusted by heterosexual fornication, are even naturally, and intrinsically, disgusted by homosexual behavior, seeing as how there’s no redeeming the sexual actions of gays and lesbians, regardless of what laws they change, or what they claim about their relationships.
So for those folks who are being more logical than necessary on this issue, I hope I made you think a second time. Sheesh!
Seekerman
A necessary breath of fresh air!!! Thanks for your clarity on the issue.
OK Lionel, that does clarify things!! Terrific comment. It’s so easy to talk past folks in this format. Melvin, we need video cameras for everybody!!
I fully agree with you, Bro. Lionel! Ultimately, all sin is disgusting - the homosexual just especially flaunts it in my face, much to my chagrin…
By the way I am excited that many of you are standing for truth in an era of compromise. That gives me assurance that the Spirit still blows throughout this world. I think Paul’s words in Acts 20 ring clear here as he warns the elders at Ephesus what is going to happen.
So what do we see?
1. The word of God is under attack. This is usually the first step. If I can engage you in a lower criticism debate then that opens the door.
2. The supernatural is under attack. So I hear many saying Noah’s Ark (which is really God’s ark), The creation of man/woman, The Red Sea, Enoch, the works of Elijah, Jesus walking on water, the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah, and the like are “just good moral stories”.
3. Next we make morality fluid. I hear “you see that was because of the culture” thus things like sexuall immorality, honoring kings and leaders, honoring parents, submitting to the government, roles of men/women become subjective
4. Next we have a gang of liberal seminaries who have prestigious affiliations: Moorehouse, Howard, Harvard, Princeton and others turning out very charismatic (not in the spiritual sense) vocal and aggressive leaders in our community. They come under the Christian disguise but all the while denying the very truth of the Scriptures and a couple thousand years of church history.
5. Finally we have many churches who give in to these leaders. Why? Because they have to keep their consumers happy! You see the pastor (which I don’t believe in pastors in the way they are defined today but that is another post) becomes a puppet. He must now become a “visionary” (not scriptural), he has to opeate like at CEO and be business and marketing savy (very unbiblical), and he now has to provide a really good commodity or just like the business world the consumers (who profess to be Christian) take their “tithes and offering” (which keeps the great machine of the church fed and running) and go to the church that will give them the commodity they want, in the package they want it in, and in the atmosphere they enjoy.
5. So churches become just like Wal-Mart enough consumers are dissatisfied and they take the product off the shelves, enough people want it they put it on the shelf. You see we understand that the consumer drives the market. It has to be the right price, the right package, the right feel, and it has to be competitve for supply and demand to hit its peak performance. So consumers are happy they get their product and pastors…oh my bad, producers are happy they get their consumer. One boast of the product the other about their market share!
And this is what we have here, but again I am excited that so many are not willing to compromise even on the previous post though we may disagree I do believe that most were responding because they don’t want to compromise and that excites me greatly. Well as I said as Christianity becomes more and more a consumer driven market and we get further away from the New Testament pattern of the “church” get ready for more of this. Wait till it starts to hit churches and seminaries that have been considered orthodox and conservative (don’t forget what Princeton and Harvard were).
Y’know, at 17, I sometimes feel as though I have the grassroots view of where the Church is going. More and more I find that the essentials - the Trinity, the deity of the Lord Jesus, the Virgin Birth, to name a few - are derided in the name of “conversation”.
I’m all for conversation, but [and maybe this is the Baptist in me talking] I believe that when God speaks [and He has, through His Son, the Lord Jesus Christ - Hebrews 1:1-2], we don’t discuss what he meant - we obey Him!
Ultimately, a low view of Scripture is what would lead a “Christian” to accept the homosexual lifestyle as a lifestyle which the Bible says is immoral.
(MN: Let’s start with a low view that says “The Bible was written in a patriarchal society. So the restrictions on women don’t apply today. So women pastors are okay since Paul just had problem with women.” Or, a better one is: “Society didn’t like homosexuals back them. But that’s not true now. So the restriction against homosexuality doesn’t apply.” A lot of people who visit this site have theorized that once you are able to nullify the roles for men and women within the Body, jimmying anything else is just a matter of being willing/able to bring more force to bear on the problem. Once you junk the Bible for ANY reason, it’s busted and can’t be used to defend anything absolutely. )
Any evidence of Church History would see that Rome embraced homosexuality especially in their pagan temple woship. Sexuality was free and expressive. Temple prostitution was huge. It is God who spoke out against such things not some cultural killjoy.
(MN: Sure. Rome did. And Greece. But the Jews [the root of Christianity] didn’t accept it. But my point is that any claim that personal preference or biases unduly biased the Bible removes the claim of inspiration and thus of absolute authority. )
Well I will not be deterred from telling any sinner - homosexuals, gossippers, liars, heretics, murderers, you name it - that unless they repent, they wil stand before a holy God in judgement.
I sincerely believe that when “Christians” abandon Sola Scriptura in favor of “What does it mean to me today”, then they have hit shaky ground…
(MN: Because I am a kind and benevolent dictator, I will post this one. But this is the last one on the much discussed topic. Now, move along people. There’s nothing to see here. )
Melvin, many apologies for posting this here-this is because you have restricted comments regarding the earring matter.
Concerning bikinis or one piece bathing suits:a) some women will feel embarrassed if seen in their underwear, but feel okay in bikinis in public. b) Others would be heavily criticized for wearing bikini tops with denim trousers or shorts outdoors. Should the location determine the ‘rightness?’ Not that women should wear parachutes to swim…
I know I would feel awkward in a bikini.
(MN: Two words: Bikini Wax )
Hello, GaryV:
dickkopf wears a speedo. (hats off to mrs. maverick.)
uh, petros- saying hiya to garvy, making us privy to your bathing suit of choice, and tipping your hat to me, somehow, don’t belong in the same post.
oooh boy, if you could only see my face.
hello, mrs. maverick:
well, i thought perhaps my admission of wearing a speedo might generate some comments from the “thou shalt be covered from head to toe even in the thick of summer” church, but i think our bd is wearied with bikinis and earrings and such, so perhaps any further commenting has truly been squelched.
as munificent mel suggested, “let’s quit beatin’ this rug!”
anyway, the hat tip was to you, mrs. maverick, for the borrowing of your preferred use of the lower case. (can you fathom how difficult it is for me to use the lower case “i” for “I”?)
by the way, have you seen our buddy, aubrey thomas?
i’m with bld in looking forward to aubrey’s animated apologia for those busted june prophecies made by his associates.
time for “aloha” and “a hui ho” to you, sister.
love,
peter
Tell immortalbigfish to come on over to the site so I can beat the sleeves off his/her leaglistic position. LOL!!!! But seriously we can dialogue about it there if you like.
Religious Coalition for Reproductive Choice (RCRC)?
That name should tell everyone what the agenda is. It is very distrubing what is being put forth in the name of Christ by groups like this.
“Workshops at the three-day event included “Pastoral Care and Reproductive Health Counseling,” which focused on “engaging women and families confronted with issues related to healthcare and reproductive health choices” – and included an introduction to churches on “how to provide a pregnant woman with all available information about their options – parenthood, adoption and pregnancy termination.”
Pregancy termination? They mean abortion? Why not say abortion? If we are speaking TRUTH TO POWER!!
“In the “Speaking Truth to Power” workshop, attendees were taught how to lobby Congress to end funding of abstinence-only programs in favor of funding for “comprehensive sex education.” ”
I don’t get why any ‘Christian’ group would want to ban and ‘remove all funding’ for abstinence teaching.
They try to make it sound extreme by calling it ‘Abstinence Only’!! What does that mean? Isn’t abstinence the ONLY way to prevent unwanted pregancy and the spread of STD’s and AIDS?
The fight is on! This is insanity!
This is disturbing on so many levels!!!
God give us the strength to stand for the truth!
Since the topic has arisen, here is a bit of news that I had come across along the same lines:
Christianity Criminalized?
Now, IMO, is a apt time to “examine yourselves, to see whether you are in the faith”. To those who believe in bending the standards set forth by scripture, I would remind you of The Savior’s statement:
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’
The Bible is a controversial book. You can’t read it with out it impacting you in some way.
Hello, Dave - The Cubicle Reverend:
You don’t say!
Cubicle Reverend………I LOVE THAT TAG!! LOL!!
Welcome aboard Dave!!
Brother Dexter, with great appreciation for this ministry, still:
Can you tell me why the bible does not get the same deference as the Yellow Pages?
Feel free to capitalize the Bible. Don’t knuckle under to the liberals.
I’m on a tiny roll:
Christians Warned
Philadelphia 11 Ruling
Key point people…Memorize your Bible, you may wish you had that living water when the well runs dry.
Shopping at a Meditteranean style market in my small city, I first saw posters for “full time Quran memorization classes 8:00 am-5:00 pm Monday-Friday”. Google it people.
But our false churches relegate only a week or two of half-day Vacation Bible School sufficient for spiritual nourishment of our youth. Let them memorize a few verses, put on a pageant, sing a few songs, eat cookies, drink some kool-aid, color some pictures of Nicodemus up a tree, etc.,…jolly good fun, no?
Personally have known a quadraplegic who memorized the KJV front to back over only a few years. If only we spent our telvision idol worshipping time, memorizing Scripture, how much more rich would our lives become, even without imminent prospects of book burning in our so-called democratic republic?
Miss,
You left the loveliest comment. And I know you are right, and I believe that a time will come when they will try to eradicate the truth. God Bless you.
Many people are varied points of view; however, the one thing that is a constant on this ludicrous story is its premise - a man sues a book publisher based upon a scripture that is MILLENIA old.
Talk about holding a grudge… and a slovenly attempt for a pay day. Since he won’t be ashamed of himself, we can always pray it on him - in heaps.
Here’s another look: http://hiscrivener.wordpress.com/2008/07/11/gay-man-sues-for-libel-of-biblical-proportions/
Peace.
Jesus said nothing, not one word, about homosexuals.
For those of you who insist that this does not matter, that the Bible is somehow clear elsewhere about the evilness of homosexuality, here are some questions.
Why didn’t Jesus say that He was abolishing all the rules in the Old Testament EXCEPT the rule against homosexual intercourse?
Why didn’t He distinguish between His forgiving the woman brought to him in adultery ( ‘Let him who is without sin cast the first stone’ ) and His wanting to continue to hold homosexuality against people…blah…blah…blah?
(MN: And blah, blah, blah. Tell you what sgsnow, why don’t you trot yourself on over to Gay Christian Movement Watch and present the rest of your threadbare argument [which I deleted from the posting] to them? Your argument is