Some things stay the same no matter where you go, no matter who does it.
The following is an example of what bad doctrine can do. Sincerity is nice. I’m sure all the women writhing on the floor in front of the prophet are sincere. I suspect even the prophet and her translators are sincere as they speak for God and translate.
Of course I would have thought this would be a perfect opportunity for the gift of tongues to be used. But even when everybody broke out in tongues (which sounded awfully similar to the ones we hear back here in the States) no one seemed to be able to understand what was being said.
On the other hand, with the cacophony of shouting and wailing, I’m not sure anyone would have been able to hear a message anyway. Even the prophet got drowned out after a while.
By the way, notice that the “prophet” saw an angle and a white cloud as well. I wonder if they know our buddy Todd.
By the way, thanks to Aubrey. I spotted this clip while I was watching the clips about the man who was raised from the dead.
I think the so-called prophet who uses the handle Pastor Jennifer is false, way out of order, seeing mess puffed up in her fleshly mind (Colossians 2:18-19) and it’s sad those people are being taught how to get an emotional high rather than pure truth from scripture. She operates her pimp operation out of Canada, but was born in Sri Lanka.
MY PROFILE (hers)
More like flowing in the false gifts of gab, babbling and false visions.
I’m sure many of the women who were in that room run around talking about seeing “angels” floating around now
.
Where in the Bible did anyone see an angel in a room that NOBODY else could see?
“My people, My people. You are My precious people. I am here.”
Wow…………that’s some heavy Word from God there. Ranks right up there with Isaiah for beauty and Daniel for prescience.
Either that or it’s all crap.
As Ricky Ricardo would exclaim,”I YI YI YI!” Or Daffy Duck,”Easy stomach, don’t turn over now!” I know these are stupid quotes. No more stupid than what I witnessed on this ridiculous video! Hey GaryV,it’s CRAP!
The motion for “CRAP” is seconded………
Adding comments or ratings have been disabled for that video. Oh well. The only comments on it are all in excessive praise of what was going on. John says the whole world lies in the grip of the evil one.
So.. my question — is pentecostalism valid?
No.
Marcus,
I’d say that you would probably have to rephrase your question so that it’s more understandable what you’re asking. Would a better question be “Is pentecostalism biblical?” Even in that, are you referring to denominations or elements of practice. Like anything else, there is pentecostalism and then hyper-pentecostalism. In addition, you may almost NEVER get into a conversation about pentecostalism without speaking about charismatics. I think the best course of action would be to do a little research on the topic yourself and then if you have any further questions, hit us back. Here’s a link to get started (although you know that wikipedia cannot be considered a reliable source in many instances. Still, it will give you a good idea of the subject matter).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pentecostalism
Solus Christus,
R4C
I agree with you.
(MN: I went ahead and posted the prophecies. But I also included a prophecy from another REAL prophet at the end of the posting. And thanks for the congrats.
By the way folks, take a look here and you will get an idea of why Aubrey kind of defends Todd. They see angels too!!! )
Melvin, I thought I would post 3 prophecies from 3 real prophets. I pray that you and your readers will heed these warnings, as I know that you and others live in the DC-MD area. We are admonished to judge prophecies; so judge whether these are true or false prophets. True or false, one should repent and seek God for directions because judgment is coming sooner or later. (MN: Well, no. Actually if they are false, according to the Old Testament, we should take them out and stone them. No not stone them is disobedience and we will be judged for that disobedience. ) I listened to Matthew Stephen on the radio a week ago and he specified that the explosions would happen in DC, NY, and somewhere in CA. The earthquake, which will hit the west, midwest, and the east, will happen in June of this year followed by the explosions. Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets (Amos 3:7) . BTW, congratulation on the occasion of your son’s graduation.
Erich Reber:
http://www.lutheranrenewal.org/bulletin_vision06.html
WASHINGTON D.C. ATTACKED
05-23-07
Vincent Xavier:
“…I am a bit undone in sending this announcement, yet I am resolved to say what the Spirit has shown and spoken. The Lord showed me in a very sober way that the White House, The Capitol building and the president of the United States are coming under a severe attack. The inhabitants of Washington D.C. will run through the streets as did the inhabitants of New York City on 9-11. The Lord has put a hook in the mouth of terrorist organizations that are here in the United States to carry out an assassination plot and to detonate bombs in Washington D.C. A massive explosion will take place in Washington D.C. at any moment and the life of President George W. Bush is now on High alert as he has been targeted for death…” newwineministry.net
Matthew Stephen:
October 22, 2007
“…THERE WILL BE THREE EVENTS VERY SOON, A SHOUT FROM THE HEAVENS AND IT WILL BRING FORTH OUT OF THE WEST A VERY LARGE EARTHQUAKE, WITH THAT, VERY LARGE FLOOD WALLS OF WATER AND THE LORD GOD SAID, “DEATH TO WITCHCRAFT!” A GREAT NOISE AND A LARGE EXPLOSION WILL TAKE PLACE. THERE WILL BE THREE EXPLOSIONS - - - IN WHAT ORDER I DO NOT KNOW - - - BUT ONE WILL HIT WASHINGTON D.C. EAST COAST AREA VERY SOON, ANOTHER WILL HIT THE WEST COAST, THE THIRD I DID NOT SEE WHERE, BUT I THOUGHT DENVER. FOR NOW IT WILL BE ONE HIT, AND I DON’T KNOW HOW FAST THE OTHER TWO WILL HIT. WHEN THESE EXPLOSIONS HIT IT WILL BE AIR BORN AT LOW LEVELS AND WILL EFFECT MANY STATES…” propheticwatchmanvine.com
In Christ,
Aubrey Thomas
(MN: The prophecy from Barney Rubble, given on 25 May 2008:
So Aubrey, why is THIS prophecy any less valid than the ones a triple of bozos decided to post?
More than that, do you understand that these men presume to speak for God? I’m way too fearful of the holy and wrathful God to even attempt to lie about Him the way they have. )
At least Barney was really specific on the dates. These other guys were totally general.
Aubrey, I really think you can do better than this.
The date for 3 earthquakes is june–next month. We shall all see.
(MN: So how exactly right does he have to be? For instance, if I am INTERPRETING this correctly, we have to have an earthquake on the West Coast, one on the East Coast and one SOMEPLACE in the middle. And actually, you need to pay attention to the prophecy. He said there will be one hit and he’s not sure how fast the others will hit. He also didn’t say where the first would hit (I don’t know the first will hit). So basically, there is going to be “an explosion” in June. If an explosive manufacturing plant detonates, does that count? So far I’m not impressed with this part of the prophecy nor the overall content of Xavier’s site. I mean goodness gracious, if he was a prophet wouldn’t he have known better than to hook up with the clowns in Kansas City? )
Will Aubrey admit this is a false prophet when these things do NOT come to pass?? I doubt it.
Garyv, why do you doubt it? Jesus said that there would be false prophets in our days. So, God has given us scriptural guidelines for dealing with false prophets, Deuteronomy 18:19, 1John 4:1-3. In the event that the prophecy doesn’t come to pass, I will certainly admit that they were false. This is the scriptural way to deal false prophets.
On the other hand, one doesn’t need those scriptures as a litmus test if one automatically assumes that ALL prophets are false and have no purpose in today’s church.
If the prophecy does come to pass, Garyv, and you survive, (If you’re in one of areas mentioned) will you repent and readmit the ministry of prophet back into the Bible?
Adieu, friends.
In Christ,
Aubrey
(MN: Why does he doubt what? That these men speak for God? Because of the Scripture whose portions you so easily pick and choose over. )
If you will admit the role pf the Prophetic Office has ceased when this DOESN’T happen Aubrey.
If I admitted that the prophetic office ceased, I would be a liar like you, Melvin, and others who espouse this falsehood. You can’t produce one scripture to support such a claim (MN: We can start with Eph 2:20 . Of course, I don’t really expect you to acknowledge this. I just wanted to make sure I addressed your objection. )because it was hatched up from the vain recesses of your blinded minds.
In Christ,
Aubrey
(MN: Ah yes. Once you realize you don’t have a rational argument to present, and I don’t buy into your flawed conclusions, so starts the insults. Aubrey, calling me a liar doesn’t change the fact that the apostles and the prophets make up the FOUNDATION of the church. A foundation is laid only once, at the beginning of the construction. (Eph 2:20). Yet you insist that the foundation is to be laid again and again. So far, all you have said is: He’s a prophet because he has makes predictions and says he’s a prophet. As I said earlier, I really feel sorry for you. You are wandering down such a blind alley. I hope the men and women who are deceiving you receive more grace from God than I would be willing to grant them given the lives they are ruining and the shipwreck they are making of the faith of those who follow them.
)
Blinded minds LOL!! Is that like the sort of mind that reads the Bible and decides that if a church meets in a house where a woman lives, that woman becomes a pastor despite Paul’s plain teaching on women pastors??
A mind that thinks foundations repeatedly get laid on top of buildings rather than once at the beginning (I pray you’re not an architect)??
A mind that hears some self-aggrandizing egomaniac who claims he can predict the future like some sideshow carnival crystal-gazer, and decides to just believe them UNTIL it doesn’t come to pass rather than believe them AFTER it happens??
BTW Aubrey……..June is a-comin’!!! I’ll be keeping a close eye on CNN to see the residents of Washington DC running through the streets like in New York.
Or should I just tape TBN?? Because when it doesn’t happen, I’m sure we’ll hear Paul and Jan say it happened “in the spirit”, like the dude who predicted evil will be ripped out of the world a few years ago (and nothing happened)??
So why when the verse says foundation it isn’t just referring to a springboard for the church to come and future generations? I have to say the foundation laid once thing isn’t enough for me and it’s not that I have a favorite prophet it’s just that I don’t see how prophesy has ended.
Danharr,
Was the place where you are bouncing at the time you thought of that “springboard foundation” crap? It might explain things. I once saw an explanation of a concussion which described the brain as “sloshing back and forth around the skull after impact”. This could happen when your foundation is a bouncy one! (just kidding around with you man except that a springboard foundation is not at all the biblical picture!)
Garyv, you obviously have not read the prophecies or listened to the audio. A massive earthquake will stike the west coast, moving to the midwest and then the east in June. This will be followed by a terrorist attack. If this doesn’t happen, as I said, I will admit that they are false prophets.
In Christ,
Aubrey
Aubrey, dude said that folks would be running in the streets in DC as they did in NY. It’s right in this thread. I’ll keep my TV (where apparently all good theology resides) tuned.
Only a few more days till June. I’m all a-tingle.
Instead of sound exegesis and hermeneutics, you have extrapolated from Ephesians 2:20 that apostles and prophets ceased at some unknown point. Amazing! let me indulge your argument for a moment and say you’re right. The cornerstone is also a part of the foundation. Did it cease, too, and therefore have no purpose in today’s church? Further, according to your logic, each succeeding addition to the building would have to cease once completed. Brother, I’m not trying to lay the foundation all over again. All I’m say is that the foundation, once laid, continues to function, supporting the weight of the building–even today.
I’m surprised you used that scripture. I expected you to trot out 1 Corinthians 13:9,10, but that won’t help your argument either unless you do as you’ve done with Ephesians 2:20–torture the scriptures.
On the other hand, Ephesians 4:11-14 outlines the 5 ministry gift, their purpose, and how long they will be viable.
Their purpose is found in vs 12:
1. The perfecting of the saints.
2. The work of the ministry
3. Edifying of the body of Christ. (Do we not still need edifying, perfecting, and ministry?)
How long they will be viable is found in vs 13: “Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ.”
You have to admit that we ain’t there yet. So, the apostles and prophets are still fulfilling their purpose today just as the rest of the ministry whether you will admit it or not.
Also, 1 Corinthians 12:27-31 outlines the ministry gifts in question again and says that God SET them in the church. It is nothing you or anyone else can do to unset them!
Revelation 11:10 should shut the mouths of all gainsayers, unless of course you want to contend that these prophets are not a part of the church, or more ludicrous still, contend that at some unknown time, prophets will once again be admitted back into the ranks of the ministry.
The only ones who could possibly swallow your false notion are your sycophants here. Anyone with a modicum of spiritual insight knows that I’m telling the truth. So, I reiterate; “…let God be true but every man a LIAR…” Romans 3:4.
In Christ,
Aubrey Thomas
(MN: As I said - I don’t expect you to listen to the Scriptures. The point within that verse and others similar to it isn’t that once laid the item ceases to exist. The point is that it is not typically added to. Part of the foundation is the apostles. Apostles are not continually added to it. A part of the foundation is Christ. More Christs are not added to it. A part of the foundation is the prophets. More prophets are not added to it. But as I said, I don’t expect you to listen. I expect you to do exactly what you have done. AIt interesting to note though, that you tend to answer what you wish to answer. And one thing you still have not responded to is my question about the authority of what these men say. As I asked earlier, in a previous exchange, if one of the prophets you promote says, in a prophetic frame of mind, that Adam was six feet five inches tall, is that infallible, revealed information we can tack to the front of our Bible? What if someone points out that Eve had a complexion a little darker than a dark mahogany cabinet? Can we take that to the bank as infallible revealed knowledge? Or what if one of the prophets reveals that aside from “Comforter” another name for the Holy Spirit is “Schwartz”? Does that count as revelation knowledge? Can we then start saying “May the Schwartz be with you?”
These men claim to speak as those moved by the Holy Spirit, even as the prophets and apostles of old. Are their messages similarly inspired? Are they good for reproof, correction, and training in righteousness like the “rest” of Scripture?
Before we continue this discussion [you have demonstrated previously that you are more than willing to argue in big sweeping circles] respond to this question. Again, do the words of the prophets you follow have equal authority as the Scriptures? By the way, telling me that they will only say things consistent with the Bible is not an anwer. At best, that answer means what they say will agree with your and their INTERPRETATION of what the Bible says. And this is not even close to the same thing.
I suspect that the status of their revelations is actually the crux of this entire discussion. And I will tell you up front that a statement on your part that the words of your prophets are of equal weight with the Bible will again show the readers of the dangers of bad doctrine. If you say that they do not have the same weight as Scripture, then the very next question will be “Then what are the words of these men good for?”
As previously stated, I will not post a response of yours until you answer the above question. Any questions? )
Aubrey, no one says that no one can PROPHESY as the NT defines it (words of exhortation,edification, and comfort). However the OFFICE of the prophet where INSPIRED, AUTHORITATIVE Words directly from God has CEASED.
Those who claim prophesy as a gift must define the office as the Bible defines it.
The contentions among those who believe that Prophets continue today as I understand it, are these:
1) New Testament Prophets are not held to the same standard of perfection as Old Testament Prophets. Some Texts to support that would be helpful. They are allowed to be partially or wholly wrong, and yet not become labeled as false.
2) While the Words of the Prophets of the Old Testament were completely binding and authoritative, the words of New testament Prophets are not. Some Verses illuminating this lowering of the Prophetic Standard in this area would also be greatly appreciated.
How is it that today these clowns that claim to be Prophets can spew their “prophecies” yet the folks who consider them prophets don’t feel the need to accept their words as authoritative and obey them as from God Himself??
3) Among New Testament Prophets, there is the problem of an admixture of God’s Words with the carnal musings of the Prophet himself according to those who accept NT Prophets. This is often the excuse for their errors in prophesy (some of the prophet’s own thoughts get mixed in, or his carnal understanding got in the way of God’s Word).Some Verses illustrating the introduction of this new difficulty in the New Testament which did not exist in the Old Testament are mandated before this assertion can be accepted.
If that is the case, what good is the prophesy?? If there is no possibility of separating the Words of God from the words of men in the prophesy, how can the prophetic word benefit you?? If you stepped out upon the word of prophesy to act, it would be impossible to do so in faith since you don’t know which parts of the prophesy are to be obeyed (God’s Words) and which parts are a carnal and dangerous intrusion into God’s Words.
Since there exists no method to properly determine whether God’s Word stopped and the prophet’s musings began, it is simply useless for direction or insight.
So how is all that like Prophesy as the Bible defines it??
I simply assert that, absent Biblical evidence to the contrary, anyone claiming to be a Prophet in the New Testament must adhere to the standards for Prophets that God Himself formulated in Scripture.
Therefore, MY Scriptural authority for rejecting Prophets as defined by the hyper-Charismatics lies in the very Scriptures with which everyone here is already quite familiar.
Deu 13:1 If there arise among you a prophet, or a dreamer of dreams, and giveth thee a sign or a wonder, Deu 13:2 And the sign or the wonder come to pass, whereof he spake unto thee, saying, Let us go after other gods, which thou hast not known, and let us serve them; Deu 13:3 Thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams: for the LORD your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul. Deu 13:4 Ye shall walk after the LORD your God, and fear him, and keep his commandments, and obey his voice, and ye shall serve him, and cleave unto him. Deu 13:5 And that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams, shall be put to death; because he hath spoken to turn [you] away from the LORD your God, which brought you out of the land of Egypt, and redeemed you out of the house of bondage, to thrust thee out of the way which the LORD thy God commanded thee to walk in. So shalt thou put the evil away from the midst of thee.
(GV) Here we see that God mandates the death penalty for Prophets who even err in doctrine. 100% accuracy demanded. Yet, folks like the ones you cited are not held to that standard. There’s always an excuse for their error.
Deu 18:20 But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die. Deu 18:21 And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the LORD hath not spoken? Deu 18:22 When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that [is] the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, [but] the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.
(GV) Here we see that if the word spoken by the Prophet did not come to pass, that was evidence that God had NOT spoken to this Prophet, and of course the death penalty was to be enforced. 100% accuracy demanded.
1Sa 22:5 And the prophet Gad said unto David, Abide not in the hold; depart, and get thee into the land of Judah. Then David departed, and came into the forest of Hareth.
(GV) Here we see that the Words of genuine Prophets were authoritative, as David immediately obeyed the command from God. Yet, today, when one of these “prophets” rubs his crystal ball, folks don’t feel the compulsion to obey. Why is that?? Is that how the Bible describes the authority of the words of true Prophets?? Seems folks who CLAIM to believe in Prophesy really don’t believe after all, else they would unhesitatingly obey.
1Ki 20:35 And a certain man of the sons of the prophets said unto his neighbour in the word of the LORD, Smite me, I pray thee. And the man refused to smite him. 1Ki 20:36 Then said he unto him, Because thou hast not obeyed the voice of the LORD, behold, as soon as thou art departed from me, a lion shall slay thee. And as soon as he was departed from him, a lion found him, and slew him.
(GV) We see here the Words of a true Prophet are binding, authoritative, and 100% accurate again. Why don’t those who claim to believe what the Bible says about Prophets act accordingly when one of their gurus speaks his “prophesy”?? </b
Refusal to obey the Word of the Prophet led to judgment and death (the man died precisely as the Prophet foretold for his disobedience).
Naturally, I could cite dozens of such verses throughout the Old Testament, but I know that this isn’t necessary since I believe those here for discussion know the verses as well, and also know what they say about the accuracy and authority of the Words of true Prophets. Even Peter in the New Testament gave witness to this in his writings:
2 Peter 1:16 For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty. 17For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
18And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount.
19We have also a more sure word of prophecy (Notice Peter puts the truly Prophetic Word above even the audible voice of God for surety. Again, 100% accuracy and authority); whereunto ye do well that ye take heed (Notice here that Peter warns them to take heed, or obey the Prophetic Word. He confirms the Prophetic Word as binding and authoritative over them) , as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:
20Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation
21For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
The Words of true Prophets are both 100% accurate and absolutely authoritative.
The Word demands 2 or 3 witnesses to confirm each of the following assertions made by those who hold to modern Prophets, because all these claims are made to explain away both the errors of the Prophets AND the willfull disobedience of those who CLAIM to believe that prophetic Words from God are being uttered.
1) That the words of New Testament Prophets are held to a lower standard of accuracy,because error no longer is followed by rejection of the “prophet” as in the OT.
2) That the words of New Testament Prophets are held to a lower standard of authority, because those who claim they believe in continuing prophetic utterances directly from God don’t feel the need to obey those words as directly from God and therefore binding and authoritative over them.
3) That New Testament Prophets can be inaccurate without warranting the death penalty God commanded pertaining to Old Testament Prophets.
4) That New Testament Prophets can mix their words or thoughts with God’s Word without incurring the death penalty (this is the common excuse by hyper-Charismatics for when the prophets “miss it”).
5)That Scripture describes a change in the Office of Prophet from the Old Testament to the New whereby the transition to these lowered standards can be Biblically affirmed.
But no……..they want to play at prophecy like it’s a game of darts. They want points for coming close, and if they miss completely they get to just start a new game and try to do better next time. This is not a Prophet as God defines them.
So, Aubrey………unless you tell us that you are willing to obey the words of these “prophets” you believe in as if their words come directly from God Himself, you don’t believe in Prophets as the Bible describes them. You believe in prophets as you and your buddies redefine them, in direct opposition to God’s Word.
MN said: “As I asked earlier, in a previous exchange, if one of the prophets you promote says, in a prophetic frame of mind, that Adam was six feet five inches tall, is that infallible, revealed information we can tack to the front of our Bible? What if someone points out that Eve had a complexion a little darker than a dark mahogany cabinet? Can we take that to the bank as infallible revealed knowledge? Or what if one of the prophets reveals that aside from “Comforter” another name for the Holy Spirit is “Schwartz”? Does that count as revelation knowledge? Can we then start saying “May the Schwartz be with you?””
Aubrey: 1 Corinthians 14:29-33 answers your question. If a prophet in an assembly made such outrageous assertions, the other prophets and saints would JUDGE him to be out of order (vs 29). But this passage has absolutely no weight with you since you deem the prophetic ministry and spiritual gifts (Well only the “sign gifts” what ever that means) defunct. What you have done in effect is render this passage and others like it defunct as well. (MN: Hold on there cowboy. Why would that be an outrageous statement. Is it anymore outrageous that God asking David how he wanted his punishment? Is it anymore outrageous that Moses saying “In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth” or that God created man from the dirt of the earth? Why is stating that Adam is 6′5″ outrageous? What is the basis of the outrageousity. )
MN said: “These men claim to speak as those moved by the Holy Spirit, even as the prophets and apostles of old. Are their messages similarly inspired? Are they good for reproof, correction, and training in righteousness like the “rest” of Scripture?”
Aubrey: I agree with the Bible; All scriptures are profitable for reproof, correction, and training in righteousness. (MN: You didn’t answer the question. But because I’m feeling rather gracious, I will allow the posting to continue. It is proving to be a very good teaching aid. )
MN said: “respond to this question. Again, do the words of the prophets you follow have equal authority as the Scriptures?”
Aubrey: first of all, I do not follow these men. I am simply waiting to see whether or not what they have said will come to pass. At that point I will, according to the Bible, make a judgment as to their veracity. (MN: Again, you did not answer the question. You accept the existence of prophets as these bloke define prophet. Do their words have the authority of Scripture? Yes, or no. )
(MN: Now you’re starting to weasel. You said earlier that these are prophets and that we should believe that they are. You said, at 2008-05-25 16:08:00, the following:
Note your words - I thought I would post 3 prophecies from 3 REAL prophets. )
To answer your question, The scriptures stand alone. We are not to give anyone or anything the same weight as the Holy Scriptures. What need is there then of prophets? We need them because as I said earlier, they edify us, perfect us, and minister to us. (MN: Teachers do that. And they do it without presuming to be God’s mouthpiece. ) Actually, all of the ministry should speak for and represent, as ambassadors, God and His kingdom 1 Peter 4:11. We are, however, flawed human beings at varying degrees of maturity, hence the need for other ministers and saints to JUDGE every inspired utterance. I could ask you the same thing about your pastor, evangelist or teacher. (MN And why aren’t these others equally flawed? The Bible says ALL fall short. It says that we all see darkly. ) Why do we need them? We’re all intelligent. We can read and study the Word of God for ourselves. Is your pastor inspired? (MN: No. And he doesn’t claim to be. When someone says “The Lord told me to say this” that person is claiming to be inspired. You know, as in “Thus says the Lord…” ) Does he speak for God when he delivers his Sunday sermon? (MN: No. And he doesn’t claim to. ) When he speaks a word that ministers directly to your situation, is it a word from God or advice from a man to be heeded or discarded at one’s whim? (MN: It’s instruction from the Bible which God graciously provides him the wisdom to present. How is some prediction about an earthquake on the west coast and people running in the streets on the east coast even close to my pastor preaching from the Word? )
Brother, I marvel at your intransigence. (MN: I Marvel at your obtuseness. ) I’m done with this discussion. (MN: Yes, you are. But you are done because you have again demonstrated an unwillingness to look at Scripture and to think through the things you are saying. You have again argued in a great big circle, actually contradicting yourself at the end. )
In Christ,
Aubrey Thomas
Hey Melvin I don’t think Barney Rubble is that presumptuous. Fred Flintstone maybe,but not ‘ol Barn!
(MN: Actually, I think you’re right. Barny is WAY too humble to do something like that. )
It all becomes clear……….
Marcus, if by Pentecostalism you’re referring to a belief that the gifts can still be manifested today if God so chooses, then yes. If you’re talking about how that belief is lived out in the vast majority of Pentecostal churches, then No.
GaryV / independent conservative-thanks for your input. I”ve been to several pentecostal churches before-lets just say I have not been back since. I was actually scared and I dont scare easy. At first, I thought- man these people are crazy. Everyone speaking in tongues at the same time. Women passing out all over the place laying on the floor shaking like they are having seizures, men running around the church and I am standing there among all of this thinking to myself, either something is wrong here or something is wrong with me. I felt as if I did not know how to praise God because I was not doing what everyone else was doing and I also thought about joining them. I figured I could run around the church a few times and maybe loose a few pounds doing so. I thought I could pass out and act like the rest of them and shake and make crazy sounds with my mouth, anyone can say “amen” right? I just had to make sure when I passed out- to steer clear of the chairs and people. I thought I was an oddball, that God did not love me because I never had the feeling to do what the rest of the church was doing. I wanted to feel what they were feeling, I thought to myself, this cant be fake– everyones doing it right? However, as I watched the church including some of my friends continue to pass out among the floor and men running around the church I could not shake the feeling that something was wrong and I have not been back since however, my current girlfreind attends a pentecostal church headed by a female pastor and has been trying to get me there for a year now. I’ve been resisiting trust me.. I have been resisiting. Oh and by the way- the relationship between my girlfreind and I is a struggle. She recently told me I need to go to church with her because her pastor is a prophetess, she said her pastor can see and let my girflfriend know if her and I should be married. By that she meant what God has to say about it. See what I am dealing with? Its enough to drive a man to drink and I dont drink but will someone please pass me a cold beer oh and dont forget to say a prayer.
(MN: Run away as fast as you can. Don’t leave a forwarding address. And take a look at http://www.9marks.org. You may be able to find a useful church in your community. Also - I strongly suggest you dump your girl friend. She hasn’t a clue. )
I agree with you Marcus. I wont enter a charismatic church - period. Churches like that send a cold shiver down my spine. They give people the wrong impression of what Christianity is all about. In effect what is caused is a division or split in churches as people who don’t understand what is going on are sucked into the movement. As a result people start to question their salvation, and whether what Christ has done on the cross is sufficient due to this “new experience” what God is “doing”. Is it possible that the charismatic movement is one and the same thing what the Bible calls a falling away in the last days? People looking for a sign, an emotional trip and failing to trust what Christ has done but rather believing their pastors who have been exposed to this movement, not based on Biblical authority but rather on some emotional trip.
As for women in the pulpit, that is undermining God’s authority. God placed man above women, hence is in authority above women. For a woman to be in the pulpit preaching to men, that would place her in a higher position of authority over men who are present.
How many times has Pat Robertson been right in his prophesies? How about Kenneth Copeland? Copeland prophesied just after 9/11 that,”in the next few months over a billion moslems would be saved.” That would be most of the Islamic world converting to Christ! This idea of the “fallible prophet” is ridiculous! Mr. Thomas these so called “prophets” you quote are less reliable than your local weather man!
Melvin, I’ve read the prophecies many times with great concerns because I have 1 brother and 3 sisters in the area. I lived and worked there myself until the Lord moved me out of there a couple of years ago. I moved my daughter out of there in February. So, I know exactly what he’s saying.
Stephen does go into more detail about the earthquake prophecy and the TERRORIST attack with greater specificity during a radio interview on the Edge radio program. http://www.theedgeam.com/main.php. Scroll down the page until you come to Matthew Stephen. Then click on the program dated 5/10/08. The June prophecies are about 1hr 10mins into the program. Check it out for yourself at your leisure. Also, he is going to be in California on May 31 warning about this impending disaster. I think it’s going to be on the internet. I’m sure you can get the details on his site.
Listen, one doesn’t have to be a prophet to know that destruction is coming. The Holy Spirit inside of me witneses that it is. My prayer is that I may be counted worthy to escape all these things that are soon to happen (Luke 21:26). Don’t you think this would be a wise prayer?
In Christ,
Aubrey Thomas
(MN: Aubrey, I find myself actually feeling sorry for you. When I was a much younger man, I got hooked up with someone who believed they were speaking the very words of God. It was really ugly as I looked back on it. In all sincerity, and with as much compassion as the creator of http://www.pulpit-pimps.org can muster, I truly pray you will figure out really soon that these men and women do not speak for God. He has spoken in His word and He has, as Hebrews 1 says, spoken through His Son. Unless you are going to staple what these men and women say to the back of your bible, you must not give them the authority of men moved by the Holy Spirit.
The “prophecies” these fellows developed are general enough to cover a host of things. But as Gary asked: If it doesn’t come to pass are you going to dump these men and women? Or are you going to look for some reason to excuse them? Or maybe you’ll hook up with another group of “prophets”.
A former friend of mine, one of the less-than-useless deacons at First Baptist Church of Glenarden, (Lawrence Lee) swore the owner of Family Radio, Harold Camping, was spot on when he predicted Jesus Christ was coming back in 1994. Jesus’ failure to appear did not affect my friend’s opinion of Camping. In fact, he continued to promote his writings. I hope you aren’t going to do the same thing.
And finally, look at the environment on the Edge - anything from Numerology, to metaphysics, to “Thin Places” and on. The site doesn’t exactly drip with credibility. Tell me again why God would use that particular site. )
Hello bro Melvin,
I just saw your e-mail today, I was busy preparing for my exams and computers, internet et al were merely an afterthought.
I tried to reply to your e-mail but it seems like there’s a problem somewhere because it didnt work; I even tried to use my second e-mail address but the result were similar but I’ll try again later.
However, I would like to say thank you in advance for your efforts.
Thanks,
No problem. Let me know what you want to do. Besides, exams are important. Pay attention and get good grades.
Mr. Thomas, I will also be praying for you. You appear to have a lot of fears at this time in your life both for you and your family. I do not want to make light of your fears (as I think we all have them at some time) but, they seem to be overtaking you. I don’t think that it is necessarily a wise prayer that “I” escape anything. I pray that you find peace in the rest of the verses in Luke 21 it ends with what we should do when you see all these things happening. I pray for you 1 Cor 16:13 Peace be with you Bro.
Has anyone heard of the PAW teaching a form of the inclusion doctrine…..since we’re speaking on pentecostals and all