This is such an easy job! The fish practically jump in the boat! And I don’t have to go looking under every rock for these creepy critters. They come to me and let me know what they are doing. In fact they often brag about it
Take T. Dexter for example. He had his “Back2Bible” conference coming up in about a week. And they’re going to have some dynamite teachers/preachers covering some dynamite topics. In fact, according to the flyer on T. Dexter’s site, they promise that “(F)undamental philosophies such as redemption, salvation, prayer, the blood covenant and the resurrection will all be discussed during this three-day event.”
Hold on there cowboy!! Philosophies? Since when are the central teachings of Christianity simply philosophies? Philosophies are systems of principles for guidance in practical affairs. Redemption is not a principal. It’s not a philosophy. God’s covenant with man is not a principle. It’s certainly not a philosophy. And certainly the resurrection is not a philosophy. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you (or in the case of the Pimps – do unto others before they do unto you) is a philosophy.
T. Dexter Jakes – the next Billy Graham. Right.
In Back2 Bible, T. Dexter is presenting such luminaries as Ken Ulmer and Tommy Tenney. And notice they are described as great orators. So this means what? That we’ll be impressed with their speaking skills while they feed us lies and errors? Apparently so.
Here’s a mug shot of the perpetrators. And as usual, they are regular founts of screwed up doctrine and pimpological expertise extraordinaire.
As an example, Tommy Tenney is the author of “The God Chasers” and “God’s Dream Team”. Here’s a quote from “The God Chasers”:
My life changed forever on the October weekend in Houston, Texas, when God’s presence invaded the atmosphere like a thunderbolt and split the podium at the Sunday service.
Chapter 6, page 83.
In “God’s Dream Team” he says:
There have always been dreamers. Men and women who catch a glimpse of something beyond themselves who dare to reach for goals and visions … Yet no earthly dreamer can match the greatest of them all, the Dreamer who died on the cross to make His dream a reality. John 1:1 says, “In the beginning was the Word.” The literal meaning of logos, the original Greek term translated as “Word,” is idea, thought or blueprint. It is an ancient Greek theatrical term describing the work of a playwright as he conceives, or dreams up, the plot of a play. So we could say, “In the beginning was the dream
God’s Dream Team, page 22
Did you catch that? One of the featured speakers at T. Dexter’s conference says Jesus was a dreamer. In fact, at the end he says that Jesus is the dream.
By the way, though he doesn’t exactly advertise it, Mr. Tenney is a Oneness proponent as well. Shouldn’t be surprised though. After all, T. Dexter is a Oneness preacher too. But neither of these guys has ‘nads to say so. After all, people aren’t quite stupid enough to completely ignore the fact that he denies one of the central tenets of Christianity. They’re getting there, but they’re not there just yet.. And as you would expect, Tenney’s theology is just as screwed up as T. Dexter’s.
Then there’s the woman preacher, Bishop Dr. Cynthia James. I can just see it now. T. Dexter has been busy feminizing men for the last ten years. Now he brings in a woman to ramp up the feminization efforts even more. And of course, she has ties, through folks like Dave Copeland (an up and coming Word of Faith fellow out of Texas [of course], to Fred Price, the Apostate Apostle of Word of Faith poison.
Ken Ulmer runs a church out of an old coliseum in Los Angeles. And during the week, to pay for the place, he rents it out to various rock groups and other performers of…uh…questionable character. He’s also the guy who, several years ago, came up with the book “A New Thing,” in which he proposes that many of the unbiblical practices and teachings he and his ilk are promoting are not wrong. They are simply new. Thus the non-stop screeching and hollering during that which they call worship are something new, not something stupid. Of course you wouldn’t expect an associate of T. Dexter to be any better at understanding God than the man the world is trying to give us to be the next great theologian of the church.
But enough of these clowns. Let’s take a look at one of my favorite pimps – Fast Eddie Long.
Fast Eddie is working a slightly new angle now. Here’s a shot from Fast Eddie’s web page What’s one of the first things you notice about it? Time’s up!!
That’s right! As usual, the entire site content focuses on Fast Eddie. There is a mention of God in Fast Eddie’s note to you. But that’s it. The rest of the stuff is Fast Eddie’s name, Fast Eddie’s picture, information about conferences featuring Fast Eddie or his wife, Mrs. Fast Eddie.
I’ve been watching some of Fast Eddie’s “sermons” lately. And though I have to fight the urge to whisper “Watch this! Watch this!” when I give a briefing at work, I’m going start on summarizing some of the poisoned pabulum and heresies he has been developing over the last year.
The man isn’t simply a pimp. He is a pimp’s pimp. In fact, I think he should get rid of the remodeled Benz he drives and start tooling around in this car. It fits his character and his scams much better. And yes, you’re right, that’s Ron O’Neal’s car from Super Fly (a movie that was out back when I had hair on the top of my head).
Stay away from these pimps. Stay away from anyone associated with these pimps. Any pastor who would associate with these men and women is either too stupid to understand that they are hurting you or they are too greedy to care about your spiritual health. And either of those possibilities says you need to find another church before you are dragged down into heresy, futility, and foolishness. If you want a sign indicating wether or not you should leave a church, look at the events schedule in your church program or the bulletin board and see who your elders are associating with. And if any of these pimps’ names appear there, run, don’t walk, to the nearest exit.
Gee whiz….what a mess! I’m surprised Paula White isn’t on the bill but I guess when you have such outstanding “orators” teaching “philosophies” there’s no need for a “life coach” is there?
Hello, Phil:
In case Paula and/or her confederates appear on Corfu, here is my card:
*********************************************
Have Machine Gun - Will Travel
Wire: Dickkopf
Colorado Springs
*********************************************
In Christian Love,
Peter
“If you want a sign indicating wether or not you should leave a church, look at the events schedule in your church program or the bulletin board and see who your elders are associating with. And if any of these pimps’ names appear there, run, don’t walk, to the nearest exit. ”
This is PRECISELY the barometer I used to roll out of the last congregation.
Hey Melvin, Dave Copeland? One of Kenny’s kin? Kenny does have a son John. That’s all we need another Copeland running around!
Having been a Christian for more than thirty years (got saved around 1973), I was a sentient being when many of the pimps were just starting to ply their trade. In fact, I knew some of them by name. Dave Copeland (Bishop of New Creation Christian Fellowship Church) was a chaplain in the Air Force back when I was stationed at Scott Air Force Base in the mid 80s. His wife, Claudette () was a part time chaplain. Now she is the pastor and he is the bishop at New Creation.
As you can see, it is unlikely that Dave is related directly to Kenny C. He is, however, closely associated with Fred Price.
Of course, I don’t know who was worse – him and Claudette, or the chaplain who replaced him. The replacement chaplain’s wife wore glasses with the Playboy Bunny emblem and insisted on wearing very low cut tops. She was rather…ahem…well endowed from what I very vaguely remember. Even then I was too busy for the Lord to even notice such things. No, really!
When we first got back to the states, we lived in base housing on Tyndall AFB, just outside of Panama City Florida (up in the Panhandle). One of our neighbors was Lasalle Vaughn and his wife Portia. He was a First Lieutenant at the time. His wife and mine were kind of friends. In fact, we borrowed a baby carriage from them (for our third son) and never returned it - we kind of forgot in the rush of our move to Illinois. I finally gave up trying to locate them and threw it away about five years ago.
Hey Mel,I live in San Antonio Tx and I know who you are talking about. I wasn’t quite sure Dave Copeland was the same but low and behold it’s him! Lasalle and his wife pastor a church called New Life I believe near Lackland Air Force Base. In fact, it’s right outside the gate. Small world indeed! The Vaughns live here. Did you not know that? Their kids are grown and i believe they have grandkids.Have some friends that attend that church. Some of the San Antonio Spurs attended that church.Still have a problem with a female pastor. As you can see I am back. The family is doing better and my husband is doing better. It’s going to take some time but our family’s faith in the Lord has kept us. Grace and peace be multiplied to all of you!
Sorry Melvin I finally found a picture of Dave Copeland. I see it’s unlikely he’s related to Kenny. Then again we’re talking about WOFer’s here. They all have this ridiculous theology. So there is definitely a relation of sorts.
And as you would expect from the contents of his site, he works with Hagee.
Working with Freddy Price and Johnny Hagee,wow! I’d say he’s related to Kenny Copeland at least doctrinally anyway. You know I’ve never heard Fred Price explain how his wife Betty got cancer. One would think after years of sitting under such an “anointed” teacher as Fred,she shouldn’t have gotten cancer in the first place! Now I’m glad she is cancer free,but she didn’t do it by “confessing” her cancer away!
If i remember correctly, Betty thanked the doctors for helping her to overcome her cancer.
Ex-Wofer, did you hear about Seattle wofer Casey Treat and his cancer? Its very telling that all the magical stuff they tell the sheeple to do when their in trouble, they NEVER use themselves. And the po sheeple done seem to ever catch on that they are being sold a bag of dead leaves.
He never “spoke his healing” (Romans 4:17). Instead he found another scripture to get himself “out of the box”.
Im glad he recovered, but why lead people astray with false interpretations?
Red Roses that’s well and good Betty Price thanked her docs. My point was she didn’t “confess” her cancer away. gcmwatch, yes I’ve heard of Casey Treat,doesn’t surprise me he doesn’t practice what he preaches. You know you guys, don’t get me wrong. I’m glad that these people got treatment for their ailments. It’s just a little hypocritical of them to tell people to just have faith. mean while these “ministers” get the best medical treatment money can buy. Then they try to hide their illnesses for as long as possible.
(MN: And they use the money from the people they pimp to get the treatment. )
I think that Betty Price wrote a book about her battle with cancer. I haven’t read it, but I’m sure you can get it from thei website and get her thoughts about the whole ordeal.
The doctrines of the church equated with philosophy?
What an utterly ignorant thing to put on a website advertising a junket about going “back to the Bible”
Right.
The wisdom of fools is truly astonishing.
You know, Melvin, TD Jakes can be considered the Supreme Alpha Pimp of the WOF movement these days (I’m surprised he could pull himself away from counting the cash he gets from his “spiritual sons” to hold another conference, but these get-togethers do rake in more cash, so…).
Not to be undone, Fast Eddie is a soon-to-be Alpha Pimp in his own right - since he’s spawning versions of himself across the countryside.
I mean, it has to speak to the power of your pimpistry when you can get men to turn their churches over to you and change the name of their church to align with your heresy.
(MN: Man! Now I guess I am sufficiently depressed. Stomp on one and three more show up. It’s like leaving a flaming paper bag of crap on someone’s porch so they can stomp it out when they see it. But all you get is crap all over the place. )
TD better look out - Eddie is stacking his dough for years to come so that he can effectively compete against his “spiritual father”
Ha! That’s a good analogy. I liken it to the roaches we used to have when I was growing up. There came a time when the raid wasn’t making them go away - in fact, it made them even more bold…they didn’t even scatter when you turned on the lights anymore. They just stood there…looking annoyed
That’s how these pimps are getting - they become more and more bold in their misrepresentation of the Gospel, and they curse you when you use scripture to show them how off base they are!
(MN: I think you’re right. The more they get away with, the more emboldened they are to try for more. )
Speaking Truth, I was thinking of the roach analogy myself describing getting rid of one piece of vermin just to have it not die, but multiply (think the late comic Robin Harris). It wasn’t until Combat came out in the early 80s that roaches became a thing of the past. This is what’s needed to get rid of these parasite assemblies of today.
(MN: Man! Now I guess I am sufficiently depressed. Stomp on one and three more show up. It’s like leaving a flaming paper bag of crap on someone’s porch so they can stomp it out when they see it. But all you get is crap all over the place. )
LOL
I recently attended a New Birth Church in Charlotte. When I first went there I had preconceived notions of what was going to happen because it is under Eddie Long. But I decided to have a non-bias view on the church… I walked up to the service (Mother’s Day) and it was a nice building.
I went in and saw about 10 or so pictures of men wearing a crescent star something hat on (red color hat). I don’t know if they owned the building or what..I didn’t see them in the service. Well I entered the congregation area…and nobody gave me a program or flyer or anything even though they were passing it out…so I had to get back up and get one myself. The sermon started with a verse..I don’t know what scripture it was out of….I don’t know all the scriptures so it would have been helpful.. He then invited all the mothers up to the front. Actually the pastor..did have good points on Mother’s role in the family, men not taking care of their children, children honoring their mother.
What was sad is that there were so many mothers up front and looking at who was left in the seats (few men.:(((). He made a comment about that no child should hit their mother..which I did agree with, but the point I didn’t agree with is when he said..”Bring ‘em to me and I’ll let you have first swing, then I’ll beat the H*ll out of you!”..then he related it to a verse where Jesus said to “take up your sword”. He told the next time he married a couple that he would ask them what they would do to help the kingdom of God..(which I agreed with)…
He then start declaring….wealth…gifts of writing…jobs….businesses….wealth again…then what was really crazy….that women who don’t have children..he said he declares that they will be pregnant. and now have fertile soil…and even if you don’t want to get pregnant you’ll get pregnant..all in Jesus’ Name!. ……but the crazy thing is he didn’t read any scripture dealing with women..ex..Proverbs 31..and he didn’t mention that you should have sex only in a marriage…have a baby only in a marriage..and also not to marry and unbeliever..(Unequally yoking as stated in the scriptures)….there was a tribute video played for the women “Superwoman” sung by Alicia Keys(who is not Christian if I’m correct). Then at the end “coming to Christ” was stated.
OK…now I knew that a lot of these bishops served as “coverings” to other pastors even though I never figured out where they got that doctrine from. But, I was willing to give them the benefit of the doubt and assume that they were just trying to seek and instill some sense of accountability amongst all of these independent churches thereby mitigating the chances of “rogue” preachers running amok. (OK …I know, it’s a strech, but I was trying to think the best about their intentions).
But, I had no idea that they were actually charging people money to do this!!! While I’m tryng to recover from the shock of this revelation, I have a question: do you think they got this idea from the “dues, etc..” that some denominations charge local churches for maintenance of the national organization, offices, etc?
Regardless, I’m still speechless…..
(MN: It’s always amusing to watch the naive come to their senses. )
Duh!!!!!! I didn’t see your comment about Lasalle! In fact I just read the bio on him!!!! Another DUH!!!!!!!
(MN: No problem. Glad to have you back and grateful that you guys are recovering. Don’t expect it to pass too quickly though. When my wife lost a baby I stupidly gave her a couple of months to get over it. I guarantee you it that particular faux pas didn’t go over too well. And your husband may have to actually figure out that he is still grieving before he can get over it. )
He knows he is grieving. In fact Mel,he actually cried at the funeral. Never seen him do that! Sometimes men don’t show their emotions but it is no problem with us women. We are still in shock and yes, we still cry, but the Lord has comforted all of us. I lost both of my parents so I know what it is like. They did not die violently as Dad did but yet I understand the hurt and it did bring back memories of what i went through. Joe gets quiet and i know what’s going on so i let him be. He knows i am here for him Mel. I haven’t had a chance to read the other blogs you ahd written so i started reading this one. Need to catch up. Just take my time. Have a blessed weekend,Lord willing. Happy Mother’s Day to your wife!
Jeanie
hello to all the Melvinites,
Given to the current state affairs of the world, this should not surprise any saint.
I am from Africa, more precisely South Africa and this part of the world T.D jakes and its likes are regarded as the next messiah. Pastor’s and they sheeple don’t aim to be Christ-like no more as “they have a greter example” in jakes-like.
According to local reports he is about to bring is mega-mess to this part of the world and most people seem to think is the next best thing since honey as he can now “come and speak through our lives”…Its really sad.
However my greatest concern right now is( I know that it was discussed on an erlier thread) that it is incredible difficult to find a church that want to do God’s will, in fact I am at a point of giving up looking how does that affect my salvation?
For the past year and half this site as IC and the likes have been more beneficial to my christian walk then my own “pastor”, should visiting these sites and study the topic discussed suffices in order for ti to be considered as “church”?
In Africa, due to high levels of poverty and unemployment etc the word of faith/prosperity seems to “speak life into our situation” therefore to find a good church is a mission that may be reagarded as impossible. Pastor’s have stoped reading their Bibles instead they will rather read reposition yourself and anything that these “preachers” spew…its really sad.
Let me give you guys an idea of typical South African sunday:
If you do happen to wake up at 5am, you will catch Creflo Dollar on nationat television, then another local word of faith preacher, thareafter if you still watching you will have joyce meyer etc…
On a two local “christian” radio stations all you hear is the same preachers throughout the day, so you can just imagine hoe fertile this part of the world is caught up in doctrinal error.
The other day I went into a “christian” bookstore and I asked if they had anything by McArthur, guess what? they only had @ books by him whilst Joyce, Jakes etc’s books are so many that it is even impossible for them to run out.
These my friends is the precarious situation that most Africans are living, our salvation is in jeopardy.
Keep up the good work Melvin, and Gary V, I love the way you think, you are my hero, lol.
Untill next time
Despondent,
Your post has touched me in that I would also have given up but the Lord would just not allow me to do so. So I cannot make any boast in the fact that I continually search for a church home. My desperation has caused me to make some bad choices. Again the Lord did not shield me from the consequences of my choices, i.e., bad theology which in turn caused periods of depression and falling backwards into old sins.
Read Hebrews 10:23-25 and let God’s word encourage you to press forward. We need the body (the real body, not the fake one) to stimulate one another to love and good deeds.
Just recently, I told God that if I have to walk alone for the rest of my life with no biblical fellowship then so be it but I was not going to compromise anymore. Now I know God is faithful and that whatever I ask according to His will, He will do it but I guess I said this to HIm with such conviction because I wanted Him to know how committed I was to only following Him. I guess really the statement was made to convince myself more than anything because He already knows where I stand.
One of things that helped me immensely, over the years, is to be in a solid inductive Bible study group. Inductive just means that the Bible is your primary source rather than the words of these false teachers. Precept Ministries (they call themselves the inductive Bible study people) has an international ministry that teaches people to discover truth for themselves. No, they are not a church and they will tell you that. I guess they are a para church ministry. I believe they have an office in South Africa. Why not look them up and see if they are offering any Bible study groups in your area? Perhaps some of the leaders in the ministry can direct you to a local church.
Also, you may want to read Nine Marks of a Healthy Church by Mark Dever. One of the mistakes I have made over the years is choosing a church based on the wrong criteria. I had no concept of what a biblical church or a healthy body looked like (or should look like) therefore I made my choice basedm on externals without really knowing what I was getting into. I hope something I have said is helpful.
Gotta go! I have to get ready for Sunday school at this Orthodox presbyterian church I am visiting…Have a blessed day.
On the topic of geting bold when you are deep in your pimpery, I have watched my “pastor” geting bolder and bolder with his utterances as well as claim e.g. Two years he wanted a E-class Mercedes, he actually “test drived” it for a week to kind like pulsate the mood of the congregation but now he just do things, and nobody there question his authority. Whilst I am at it, can somebody give me info concerning Bishop Tudor Bismark? He is when of the pastors that when he is cape town rolls with my “pastor”.
Hello, Despondent:
How about “doing lunch” with the Bishop? - it will cost you only 80 bucks.
http://kap2008.eventbrite.com/
What a snake.
Just checking my posts I saw that I made many gramatical errors, but I hope you guys get the point of what I am saying. In the first post I meant I found only 2 books by John McArthur.
I remember David and Claudette Copeland in the late 80’s. They were a highly annointed couple and worked especially well together in ministry. It makes me very sad when I see/hear of people who start out on the right road (sincere service to God and his people), take a wrong turn, and lead people along in their error.
I’m almost at the point as my South African poster…where can I find a bible-teaching and -believing church without the leaven of false doctrine.
(MN: I can’t say I was ever too impressed with them. They never understood the impropriety of women pastors/copastors/etc. )
I remember being forwarding the dodgily funny news that T.Dexter was hosting a Bible conference. Oh, please, I’m 17 - I could host a better [note not bigger, but better] Bible conference, and I’ll do it for free! He has no Bible knowledge to give it to folks. let alone charge ‘em for it.
Also, note that real Bible scholars like our mutual friend PJ put together events for free, yet pseudo-scholars have to charge. Hmmm…do I sense a money-making scheme here????
Thanks Melanie,
I will definately google them and find out all there’s to know. But I am afraid my question remains unanswered, which is: how does my salvation gets afected by studying the word on my own and visiting sites likes pp.org and other resources, lets like pulpit magazine after all they have some exclent articles for edification which has been more fruitful than siting at my “pastor’s building” and listening to the garbage he spew versus me siting under him but do my own private studies because most of the churches are just like my current church, they either are pimps in training or wanna be pimps? I am surrounded by these type of churches, it really gives a new meaning at least to me of Ephesians 2:8.
Dickkopf, thanks for the info.
Despondent,
I had to jump into this conversation because I recently fled my pimp here in Atlanta (Andre Landers) after 6 years of servitude, and before that I fled his spiritual daddy - Fast Eddie Long after 5+ years of servitude.
As you can tell, I’m in need of a “false teaching enema”, and I’ve been unlearning all of the…uh…poo I’ve been taught in the past by replacing it with the immutably true Word of God.
Like Melanie, I too am currently without a “church home” - just studying the Word on my own, visiting assemblies as the Lord leads, and reading sound theological works while I search for a new assembly for me and my family.
Also, like Melanie, I am resolved to stay away from formal churches for the rest of my life if that ensures that I’ll never fall victim to another pimp and his false doctrine again. I agree with Hebrews 10:24-25, so I’ll dutifully continue my search.
I’ll continue to pray for you, myself, and any other visitor to this blog - that we yield to the Holy Spirit as He guides us to an assembly that honor’s God by rightfully exegeting His Word.
Despondent, there are some better biblical scholars on this site than me but I had to respond to the salvation issue…
Why is that you believe your salvation is at issue? Perhaps sanctification is the issue you are referring to??
Listen, for years I would sit in church and basically half way listen to the Pastor and when he mentioned something about Jesus Christ or the grace of God then I would perk up and listen. I think I began to get the idea that it was okay to attend these so-so churches because I was learning so much on my own outside the church. God was faithful. He kept me during the time I was swimming in false doctrine because I was His own. He is God. He is able to do that. But the problem was that I missing the love and accountability that comes from being a part of the body.
Don’t stop at the Eph 2:8 passage. Read Eph 4:11 and the following verses. Ignore what you may have been taught by false teachers about the 5 fold ministry. Why did God give these gifted men to the body? It was for the equipping of the saints for the work of serivce, to the BUILDING up of the body of Christ so that we basically GROW up to a mature man. If you are in a biblical church you will be taught the word of God so that you will no longer be a child tossed here and there by every wind of doctrine. In other words, you will be mature.
Look at verse 11, we are to grow up into Him, the head, Jesus Christ. And it is from the head that the whole body being fitted and held together by what every joint supplies ACCORDING TO THE PROPER WORKING OF EACH INDIVIUDUAL PART causes the growth of the body.
No my brother or my sister, the issue is not salvation. Eph 2 tells you how you are saved. Were you dead, unresponsive to God or the things of God? Did God quicken your Spirit so that you began to do things to seek Him out like read your Bible or start going to Church. Dead men don’t even desire to do these things. Is your sole desire to be pleasing to Him, to serve Him, to be like Him? When you sin are you sorrowful? Have you ever just stopped sins you used to enjoy? Dead men don’t do this. And dead men certainly wouldn’t be on this site asking questions about the importance of finding a church. Assurance of salvation can only come by the Holy Spirit telling your spirit that you are a child of God. Church attendance and/or membership has nothing to do with your salvation. However, if you say you are a Christian and you don’t want to be with other Christians then something is wrong.
But the issue I think you are referring to has to do with maturity and being equipped to serve. How can you share the gospel if your pastor-teacher does not even know or preach the gospel himself? So I think your growth and your service to God is at issue if you are not in a good biblical church. Studying Ephesians has really helped me see the importance of being a part of the body. There is more I can say but read Ephesians over and over and ask God to give you understanding. Read that book I mentioned by Mark Dever as well. Be blessed.
Besides siting him its giving me the “Melvin experience, lol:-D” where you sit on the pew, whilst listen you can deduct that the pastooor is sucking things out of his thumb:-D, lol.
Having to read my own post, I am ashamed of myself as to the grammatical errors, however I am typing from my mobile, I hope you guys understand.
Melanie maybe the question, does siting under my pastor’s ministry directly afect my salvation even though he is a pimp in training, taking into account that I do my own private studies? In a twisted way siting there even incentivates me to study more ala Acts 17:11.