Believe it or not, I don’t go out of my way to uncover heretics and their heresies. Most of the time, I tend to mind my own business. At best I go out and look at these people’s sites and if I see something really good (bad?) I run and tell you about them. This story is kind of old. But since Willow Boy is one of my favorite whipping boys (it’s almost like drowning a sack of kittens in the river), I decided to go ahead and report on a fairly old event.
Several months ago, WB was on the Fox Channel talking politics and theology again. Mitt Romney was still in the race for the president and The Huckster hadn’t dropped out yet. Chris Wallace, the host of Fox News Sunday asked WB several questions – about the Huckster, Mitt, and Mormonism. Here is a brief excerpt from that sad interview:
WALLACE: So in that sense, what do you make of Mike Huckabee, a Southern Baptist pastor who’s doing so well and, in effect, using his faith as part of his platform?
OSTEEN: Well, you know what? I like Mike Huckabee. I’ve never met him. My brother’s from Little Rock and he knows him and says he’s a fine man. And so I like what he stands for.
From what I’ve seen, I don’t think he’s overdone it. I think he’s just — you know, he’s a Baptist pastor. That’s in him. And I think he’s just standing up for what he believes in.WALLACE: And what about Mitt Romney? And I’ve got to ask you the question, because it is a question whether it should be or not in this campaign, is a Mormon a true Christian?
OSTEEN: Well, in my mind they are. Mitt Romney has said that he believes in Christ as his savior, and that’s what I believe, so, you know, I’m not the one to judge the little details of it. So I believe they are.
And so, you know, Mitt Romney seems like a man of character and integrity to me, and I don’t think he would — anything would stop me from voting for him if that’s what I felt like.
WALLACE: So, for instance, when people start talking about Joseph Smith, the founder of the church, and the golden tablets in upstate New York, and God assumes the shape of a man, do you not get hung up in those theological issues?
OSTEEN: I probably don’t get hung up in them because I haven’t really studied them or thought about them. And you know, I just try to let God be the judge of that. I mean, I don’t know.
I certainly can’t say that I agree with everything that I’ve heard about it, but from what I’ve heard from Mitt, when he says that Christ is his savior, to me that’s a common bond.
You can read the full transcript here.
I have to admit that as I read the transcript I was actually embarrassed for Willow Boy. He is making it so incredibly obvious that he hasn’t a clue. He demonstrated yet again that he is a mile wide and less than a millimeter deep.
The pastor of the largest church in the United States says: “…Mitt Romney said that he believes in Christ as his savior, and that’s what I believe, so, you know, I’m not the one to judge the little details of it. So I believe they are.”
The little details?!?! You mean the little details like Jesus being the half-brother of Satan? Or perhaps you mean the fact that Jesus’ father is actually Adam, their God. Or maybe you’re talking abou the minor difference where they say we can become gods just like Adam did.
Then WB rubs salt in the already gaping wound by asking “Who am I to judge?”
I had to take a time out while I was typing this. I started hitting the keys so hard that I thought I might break the keyboard.
Okay, I’ve settled down.
Who are you to judge? I would expect this kind of foolishness from the average person on the street who has absolutely no doctrinal/theological training and has no idea of just what is in the Bible. I would expect this from someone who just didn’t pay attention to the details of Christianity, who didn’t bother to promote Jesus Christ at his every opportunity to speak. I would expect this from…wait a minute. Didn’t I just describe Joel Osteen?
Joel’s stuff is so weak the Mormons sell his book through their online book stores. Could you imagine them selling John MacArthur’s works?
I suspect Joel Osteen is leading millions of people straight into hell. He’s smiling in their faces while he drugs them with a fatal feel good gospel. In effect, he telling them to have their best life now because they are going to burn forever in hell once they die.
As I watch Willow Boy, I have come to the conclusion that he is actually worse than the pimps. The pimps produce nothing and practically blackmail the sheeple into giving them money the sheeple can ill afford to part with. Joel doesn’t ask for money. He doesn’t try to throw you into any kind of guilt trip, justified or otherwise. Instead, he tells the unsaved what they want to hear in a way they want to hear it.
He tells them to strive to be a better you rather than telling them to put on the new man. He tells them that God wants them to succeed rather than telling them that God wants them to repent and die to self. He tells them God has blessing in store for them rather than warning them that if they become Christians they should expect to be persecuted. He says the opposite of what Christ says. So in a manner of speaking, you could say that Joel Osteen is actually an anti-Christ.
He doesn’t present the Gospel. At the end of each message he presents a sanitized and emasculated Jesus for the people to follow; a Jesus that isn’t Jesus at all and who will only lead them into the depths of hell.
Run away from this guy as fast as you can. Warn others away from him even faster. Make sure those around you know that this man is an empty suit with a smile and a nice hairdo, that he does not have even a rank layman’s grasp on the Gospel. Warn folks that when he stands before them or comes through the television, he has absolutely nothing of eternal value to say.
You know Melvin, many who think they are saved flock to this empty suite because he appeals to their flesh. “You mean I can submit to Jesus and live my best life here on earth? Cool”.
I’ve heard my former pimp tell on many occassions that we don’t have to wait to get to heaven to enjoy a fulfilled life, that God wanted us “rich here on the earth. He doesn’t want anybody broke, busted, and disgusted representing Him - why would anyone want to be a Christian then?”.
Olsteen is part of a general movement (seeker friendly, emergent, et al) that lies to the spiritually immature and guarantees them an “easy life” when they take up the cross of Christ.
Yet another example that those of us who contend for the faith have a lot of work to do…still.
I can hardly stomach to look at Joel Olsteen; he’s so glazed over…look into his eyes; they’re so dark and empty (Kenneth Copeland has this same look). And eyes are supposed to be the light of the body or as is more commonly known light of the soul… Matt. 6.22 & 23 says: The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light. 23But if thine eye be evil, thy whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness!
Osteen preaches the gospel of human achievement (as MacArthur puts it), not divine accomplishment. His gospel is about our ability, our capacity to live a happy-go-lucky life minus the “nasties” like SIN and REPENTANCE. Unfortunately this sugar-laden gospel is not the gospel at all, it is just a self-help Sunday seminar hiding under the facade of Christian church.
you have a serious issue about gossip as i quote from you ‘At best I go out and look at these people’s sites and if I see something really good (bad?) I run and tell you about them.’ the bible says judge ye lest ye be judged e.g don’t bother judging people as if you aint done nothing wrong yourself.
(MN: That’s not really what that says or means. We are told over and over again to judge righteous judgment. If judgment is in and of itself wrong, how can it ever be righteous? And how am I gossiping if I tell you exactly what the source wants you to know? Willow Boy came on cable and said these things. There was no effort to hide them. Where in is this gossip? )
to be fair i think this whole website and others like it is ludicrous.
(MN: To be fair, I think you are entitled to your opinion. I’m not sure what you base it on, but as I said, you are entitled to think and believe what you want. But if you are going to be consistent, you shouldn’t tell me that you think it is ludicrous. After all, when you say that, you are judging. And you just finished telling me that I shouldn’t judge. )
i website which bashes other people instead of atleast hosting times to pray for then just seems pretty useless to me.
(MN: So you’re such a vegetable that you can’t, of your own initiative pray for someone? Or are we supposed to all type a prayer together. Your complaint doesn’t make a lick of sense. )
you obviously dont’ have a life seeing as you have to go and talk about others negatively, as if your life must be in tip top shape , and more holy than anyone elses.
(MN: Not sure how you come to either conclusion. You can pretty well get an indication of my life by reading the “About Me” section and my postings. I talk about my life rather regularly. )
i dont believe god is proud of gossips ,and its clearly written there will be no place for them. your just as bad as the people you critisise. its fair enough to point out when someone is going wrong somewhere , but to point out other peoples mistakes and broadcast them to the world is just the lowest of the low.
(MN: You mean they can broadcast their errors to the whole world [Fox News has the biggest audience on cable and satellite], but I shouldn’t follow behind them and warn people like you that they are teaching and spreading error? That’s interesting. On what do you base that position? And I hope you aren’t going to use the verses about gossip. )
again i say , you said enough about all these people, don’t you think you should put your prayers into action-as you seem to believe god loves and listens to you more than he does to anyone you critise!
(MN: Where do I indicate that God listens to me more than he does the people I criticize? You’re not making a whole lot of sense. )
believe me, if you spent even half the time praying about allthese people you critise, im sure they will have all be saved by now. we really dont need more annoying judgmental people in the world so please get a life ,maybe a consistant prayer life, and maybe we’d see some changes.
(MN: So then YOU think God listens to me more than He listens to you? It’s great you decided to visit the site. I haven’t had a good knee-jerk reaction in quite a while.
By the way, do you think Joel Osteen is wrong to say that Mormons are Christians too? )
Melvin, why do you bother wasting time and bandwidth on an individual that has already proven him/herself ignorant concerning the Word of God, and pretty much anything else presented on your blog?
I am BEYOND tired of this type of cyclical, mindless, illogical and illiterate drivel that is without depth and substance.
(MN: But it’s a good education for those who may be new to the site. Besides, it may even help the drivelers. They’re human too you know. )
It is an education for all, granted, but from the tone of this person here, as was demonstrated on a few other threads on your blog, this person strikes me as being one that is not looking to get “educated” or renew his/her mind, as scripture points out. This person, I believe is acting strictly on emotionalism in the ranting, and is not looking for either resolution or enlightenment.
One particular scripture comes to mind…2 Timothy 2:23 “But avoid foolish and ignorant disputes, knowing that they generate strife.” (NKJV)
Sorry, but I have very little patience with Anonymous’ type.
(MN: He/she gets at least a second posting before they are banned. After all, I am a benevolent dictator if nothing else. )
YES, the benevolent dictator RULES!!!!!!!!!!!!
Also, there are hundreds of churches out there following osteen’s seeker friendly model, and soon the vast majority of “christians” will attend these megachurches. I would be interested to know what level (or lack) of biblical education Osteen has..
Complete. He has a degree in in communications. He has, apparently, ZERO or very near zero theological training. He apparenlty has nearly zero interest in theological deverlopment. Thus he can “seem to hear” that there are differences between his denomination and the Mormon denomination. But he’s not quite clear on what the differences are.
Eeehhhh…
Osteen’s a bonehead, but it’s not because he didn’t go to seminary or Bible college. Timothy didn’t go to seminary or Bible college… what he did have was men like Paul and faithful women carefully teaching him the scriptures. Unfortunately, Osteen’s daddy doesn’t seem to have been much better than the man hisself…
As a seminary almost-graduate, I can tell ya, havin’ M.Div. behind your name doesn’t make you effective in Gospel ministry. I have this crazy philosophy that seminaries only exist because the church isn’t doing its job training the minds of its people… of which Osteen is a prime example.
You didn’t you know? Osteen spent 17 years behind the camera, editing his father’s sermons. He’s quite educated….NNOOOTTTT!! He just makes it up as he goes…to tickle the ears of the ignorant and innocent sheep! Bring your monnnneeeeyyyyy, this pimp has only just begun! And watch out for Victoria, his wife, she slaps people on airplanes who get in her way!! Just like Jesus….right?
I don’t know Mel, you’re better than me. If a person wants to “judge” someone and then pens their name as “anonymous” so that no one can identify who they are, that to me is a cowards way of not being bold enough to stand behind what you say (even though anonymous is guilty of his/her own standard of judging you for judging Osteen, oops there I go again JUDGING folks)!
(MN: I’ll give ‘em the benefit of the doubt. If you don’t actually type a name in the Name space, it will by default insert Anonymous. If he/she comments again, I will likely give him/her a name. )
Houston is an interesting place theologically today. We have Joel Ostein. We have the consecration of a new Roman Catholic Co-Cathedral tomorrow. We have Ed Young’s version of Baptist. We have Kerry Shook. We have Steve Riggle. We have the anomoly of at least three Episcopal churches that are still flourishing. We have the first of the churches (On Wheeler Street) that Obama’s pastor Dr. Wright decided not to visit this week. And we have this church I mentioned in the Dummies thread.
There is such a doctrinal mess here that it is extraordinarily difficult to sort out where to go to learn. This is why I am still looking forward to my copy of the book, Melvin.
Of JO, I will say that he has gotten progressively worse in the last 3 years. He used to try much harder to teach from a Biblical basis. He just seems lazy to me now. Either that or he completely lacks the knowledge and understanding that helped his father grow that church. Or both. Lakewood is an odd combination. That church has elders and yet their mentor is clueless. JO does not take a salary any longer as his books generate so much income, or so we hear.
What is most interesting is that other leaders, rather than calling him on his doctrinal weaknesses, lay off of him completely. I have listed my own church home before, but I find myself wondering aloud whether my search is not yet over.
Tim LaHaye will be visiting us again next week. I’ve been doing a lot of reading in the last month. I know that I’m about to become a lightening rod around here, but reformed preterist and amillineumist views are very appealing to me at the moment. I continue to read the arguments on all sides and will listen once again to LaHaye’s take on futurism and premillineumism.
Yours in Christ,
Merlin
(MN: I wouldn’t worry too much about the imitation of a lightning rod. Most Presbyterians are Amillenial and lightly salted preterists - that is, they believe the prophecies/promises God made to the Israelites have been fulfilled in the church. It’s the other things that hyper-prets go for (Jesus returned in 70 AD, the resurrection wasn’t necessarily physical, etc. that get people hot and bothered. Or course you have to be careful not to step on a banana peel since you already have one foot in hell!
)
Hey Merlin there is at least two good churches that I know there in Houston. One has a more Reformed perspective while the other has a more pre-mill perspective there are the sites.
http://www.sovereigngracehouston.org/home.htm
http://www.jirehbiblechurch.org/index.htm
@ blackandreformed:
What about in Mississippi?
Mister C_4 here you go
http://www.koinoniabaptistchurch.com/tp42/Default.asp?ID=60773
http://www.redeemerchurchms.org/
Hope that helps bro.
Thanks, man!
Amen to Redeemer Church in Jackson. Mike Campbell’s sermons are a must download each week for me.
What about in Pennsylvania??
Mister C_4, brother, no SG churches, but there’s an Acts 29 church (my church is one of these) in Jackson. Reformed.
N’Catina, sister, there are both Acts 29 churches (all three in Philly) and Sov. Grace churches in PA — Reading, Glen Mills, Lancaster, Souderton, Harrisburg, Pittsburgh, Indiana and Altoona. SG churches are at the top of my list for churches I would trust completely and recommend to folks!!
sovereigngraceministries.org/churches
N’Catina,
I’d have to cosign with Laura on SG churches, as I attend one myself. Also, if you live in Philly and want a sound church with a different flava’ (still multi-ethnic), check out Christ Liberation Fellowship. Perhaps you’ve visited before, so if you have and it didn’t fit your needs, I understand. Never been there, but if Bro. Lewis is affiliated with it, I’m assume it’s on point. Here’s a link:
http://www.clfphilly.org/
If you have a chance to check out the site or visit the church, let me know what you think.
Shame on the benevolent dictator for not telling you about this one…(smile Mel…)…
Solus Christus,
R4C
R4C & Laura, thanks for the information. I did check out both links. I have not heard of either of them, but will continue to do my research to gather some more background information.
I must say, R4C, that the link you gave me for that ministry is literally FIVE minutes from my home! Too funny!
Thanks, Ms. Laura! Or is it (Mrs. ???)
Thanks, one is actually not too far away. I’ll spring it on Mrs. Merlin.
See Mrs. Mav. I’m not the only one who is saying the same thing concerning Hyper-prets and their view of the resurrection. Melvin is too. I just choose not to go there anymore with it.
saiko,
this is like, totally out of left field. i haven’t addressed this topic here, so why are you? i never asked you about what melvin thinks. your comment is so random that you have me baffled as to why you brought the subject up again on this site.
Hi Merlin!! LaHay’s representation of Futurism is popular, but hardly the last word. He nibbles at the fringes.
I’m not going to base my views on one commentator only. I’m just learning how deficient my Christian education has been. The Episcopal church is more interested in their Catholic tranditions than in teaching the Bible. The three year rotation policy may make sense to them, but I think the approach needs an overhaul.
In any case, I have been brought up as a historical preterist, being told that the Pope is the antichrist. This may have been my mother’s SBC background rather than the Anglicans, so I’ll try to ferret this out with my father. Revelation is not even discussed. And yet, Apostolic Succession is one of the main issues that the Anglicans talk about. Very confusing.
The LaHaye visitations are interesting to me in that it is the first comment by my church on their leanings on these issues outside of their mission statement. As an evangelical church, I sort of expected this. Most of the churches in my part of town are futurists. The Judgement Day presentations are getting a good run around here.
I’ll not take LaHaye as the final word, I can assure you. I’m just reporting my leanings and cataloguing my journey. This has become my blogosphere home for these ramblings because of the good sense and Biblically sound doctrine supported by most posters. Thanks for your input, Gary, as always. Lecture in 9 days….
(MN: Have fun on your journey. All I can promise is that it will be…exciting. )
Melvin,
I agree with you whole heartly about Joel Osteen. I was really shocked to learn that the Mormons actually sell his book on their web page. That alone speaks to the fact that he clearly preaches another gospel because the world always accepts it’s own. Keep up the good work because just as Paul warned the church about “Alexander the coppersmith” so should we warn the church about those who are currently hendering the message of the cross.
Oh, good ol’ Joel. Who would Mark Driscoll make fun of if he wasn’t around? (Besides emo kids, Mormons, Catholics, goths, emerjerks, fundamentalists, and your mom, of course.)
Seriously, it’s a hard sell to convince people to focus for just a minute on ol’ Joel’s theological bankruptcy rather than his “success” and “joy” (read: “ability to tickle people’s itching ears” and “lack of discernment to the point of smiling about everything”). But the ability to draw a crowd does not a preacher of the Gospel make. Yep, Jesus drew crowds. But so did Bob Marley, Elvis, Idi Amin, and the Queen of England. But I wouldn’t entrust them with the care of my soul.
LOL@ Laura.
She said, “But the ability to draw a crowd does not a preacher of the Gospel make. Yep, Jesus drew crowds. But so did Bob Marley, Elvis, “Idi Amin”, and the Queen of England”.
Idi Amin! LOL! I know Joel Osteen is down right bad doctrinally but for some strange reason I would trust hanging out with Willow Boy before I hang out with that dictator.
Kyle
Hey Melvin,
This is off the subject but pimptress JB is going to be on Inside Edition tonight.
I saw that interview as well as others he’s done. The impression Joel leaves me with is that he is uneasy to the point of embarrassment about the gospel’s exclusivity. He makes it seem that his belief is a personal opinion, rather than an ancient faith that he’s commanded to contend for earnestly.
He has learned to communicate very well: He is one of the best ear-scratchers in the business. His income is proof of that.
Joel is extremely popular with the world. And one thing is certain…….if the Christ you preach is loved by the unsaved, unregenerate, God-hating world, you ain’t preaching the real Jesus.
GaryV,
Your right! This mealy mouthed Gospel is like the fast food line straight to Hell. What the heck do people get out of a Joel Osteen show? As one of the few elect as others on this site I can honestly attest that anyone who continually follows these pimps for any given amount of time with NO conviction can’t be saved. In my own life the Holy Ghost is constantly convicting me. I die daily. I grow. Many of us were caught in this at one time but as true Saints of God we were lead away from this garbage into truth.
This issue brings me to another question I have been pondering. Just how “few” are actually saved? Has this ever crossed your mind? To think that this deception as well as others is so pervasive within the Church one should question if even 5% of all those claiming to be Christians are actually saved.
Kyle
Kyle, a fellow pastor friend of mine and I were talking about this very thing just several days ago. Nearly every time I read the word the I am convicted by the Spirit. The Spirit constantly challenges us change and grow closer to the image of Jesus. It is painfullly obvious that the majority of people chasing the foolish “Best life now” crap that Joel and others like him are selling are not saved. The following scripture comes to mind:
Mat 7:13 “Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it.
Mat 7:14 But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.
Joel “colgate” Osteen is a wide gate preacher with a wide mouth smile. Man it makes my heart sick and sad seeing all those folks in his large church of flesh pleasers. It’s truely a case of the blind leading the blind. I’m going to stop right now and pray that the Lord remove the blinders from their eyes that the god of this world has placed on them.
JCrep32,
Your right. I don’t know about you but I’m a young guy and although physical age has nothing to do with spiritual maturity I sometimes feel strange that I have to explain the truth to those older than I. It’s amazing how people can say that they have been saved for almost their entire adult life yet display NO growth NOR any discernment. And yes this is why I came to the conclusion that most who claim to be Christians are NOT.
I once used to get a dose of humor coming here and reading Melvin’s satire. However, as of late I am beginning to see just how evil this is. Once you really begin to digest the financial abuse, sexual immorality, divorce, physical abuse, false prophecies, false credentials, and doctrinal deficiency which encompasses many in the Pimp game you really can no longer laugh at these things.
This movement is of the flesh. It is not of God. You can dress in a collar, hang a cross in the front, and have a choir but that does not make it a church. What you have is a movement based upon worldly passions masquerading as Christianity.
Kyle
Exactly. Tell it as it is Bro!
You are so right, GaryV. The world (read unsaved) loves any gospel where there is no suffering, no repenting, no dying daily, no taking up crosses, no denying of self, no following of Jesus, no holy and righteous living, no growing and maturing in the Word of God, no … oh sorry, I got carried away, but you get my point.
Sola Scriptura
DOC
Apparently, she’s back on the “speaking” circut, too. Click here.
(MN: Yeah. But Bridget’s picture is bigger than JunieB’s. )
If JB gets enough “support” out of this bunch and continues to get invited to other functions, I don’t believe it would be too much longer before she starts headlining her own events.
I clicked on Hilliard’s website and when you register, you have the option to be a ‘regular’ attendee or ‘VIP’ for $40. So, if I choose ‘VIP’, what do I get? A closer view of her and JB - the great PROFITess? Maybe a ‘double portion anointing’? I can almost feel the spirit coming on me now…..”shun-de-le-ho-ho”….
LOL…I saw the price differential for that, too.
Just absolutely pathetic!
Ryan,
Thats not the spirit it’s just gas.
A sho tu la ba ka no tee.
For now on I’m speaking in tongues after every post. LOL!
Kyle
JB was been at Greater Grace Temple, Detroit MI at their 5am prayer for about the last 3 months she was coming in on Tuesday nite and sleeping in the church with about 500 other people
My local TV station had advertised that Juaniata Bynum will be on an upcoming episode of divorce court; doling out advice to the divorcees.
Joel Osteen is just like the proverbial teenager who is frightened stiff at telling people the Biblical Gospel…but rather than pray and “man up” what does he do? Give the people what they want by the barrel. [I’m possibly speaking way too rudely here but:] He ain’t no preacher of the Gospel…he’s a smooth operator which is a so-called church
Why do you call Joel Osteen “Willow Boy”? Just wondering.
Thanks
(MN: If I consider Martin Luther, Calvin, Owen, and others to be the oak trees of the faith, those willing to stand strong for the truth, I must consider Joel to be a willow tree, one who bends with the pressures of the day, who droops even at the pull of gravity. My grandmomma wouldn’t have even used one of his branches for a switch to whip me. )
http://www.iwjo.com/
Here’s an interesting (not in a good way) website that I found.
(MN: I found some other pins that may be of interest to you as well. Go here. )
HEY!! I want one of those IWJO pins……….they’re going to be a great tool to open conversation. Especially after I re-word it a bit.
” Ignorant Willow Joel Osteen”
By the rivers of Babylon, There we sat down, yea, we wept when we remembered Zion. We hung our harps upon the willows in the midst of it.
Interesting how Psalm 137 uses willows in reference to Babylon, where the Israeli captives were deprived of their joy. Apparently, Babylon had a lot of willows, just as there are many false teachers within the church. As Babylon held the people of God captive by their willow trees, any saint today who is believing lies is held captive by the willow trees called false teachers. And, similarly, they are deprived of true joy. Their harps will be hung there on them until they come out of this modern Babylon. Once they do, they will be restored to God and to the life that comes with acknowledging the Truth.
Did you get lots of whippings as a little boy? I get the impression that the rod wasn’t spared with you! ( lol ).
Jeanie
If anyone would simply just do a cursory reading of the New Testament they would immediately see beginning with the warnings of Jesus that we are to avoid false teachers and their doctrine and warn the sheep that they are in our midst.
One of the ways we do that is to expose their doctrine, “teaching”, that appears Christian in nature, but is actually “another gospel” and antichrist in content.
We have to understand that the false teacher’s presentation is a duplication of how Satan deceived Eve. The formula has not changed. It goes something like this: Did God really say that? He did? Well, that’s not what he really meant.
In other words these false teachers begin with a universal truth that no one would dare deny, (that’s the hook) then they question the meaning by claiming to have a new or private interpretation (1 Peter 1:20) as if to qualify themselves for the new information that they will divulge. If you’re still with them at this point, it’s almost too late, because after they’ve questioned what God said then they will distort the original intent of God’s Word.
It’s a real simple how they do it. They may not know it, but they’re being taught by Satan himself. And some of these guys even after finding out continue in these atrocities. It’s not judging, it’s not gossiping, it’s real. It’s filthy lucre, it’s supposing gain for godliness, it’s teachers with itching ears, it’s wolves in sheep’s clothing, it’s false, it’s error, it’s heresy, it’s antichrist, it’s wrong, and it’s sending people to hell.
The only prayer I’m praying is that they get saved. Because Joel Osteen is not. He’s proven that.
Just a comment for the “judge not” folks. If you read a little further in that passage, Jesus says to remove the beam from your eye so that you can see to remove the mote from your brother’s eye. That sounds like you have a responsibility to fix something as opposed to ignoring peoples’ downfalls.
What does that even mean, the whole ” dont judge me generation” . How can even be better at anything if someone doesnt judge you . Do they believe that you are condemning them to hell? The only time when i ever said dont judge me is when i was guilty and etremely convicted. I think the church needs to address this subject and explain the whole ‘judge me generation”. Its alot of scripture proof , where the Lord gave Paul permission to judge certain people. I would love to get any feedback.
I came to the conclusion that most people that use that “Judge not” or “He that is without sin” are the ones who are committing the most sinning, and they cover others sin so their’s won’t be revealed. And when God reveal their sins, they only apologize because they got “CAUGHT”, and thats not true repentance.
HugBees13,
That’s a good point. This movement in Christianity is systemic and can be attributed to political correctness. We had seen a movement in particular during the 1990s to present that encompassed this notion of relativism, acceptance, and tolerance. This movement which is of the world crept into the Churches who were easily duped into this because they themselves had no root nor depth in the truth. From that point we had seen the explosion of Mega Churches because people were no longer convicted of their sins. And rightly so seeing that these churches offered the same thing as the world except they had the “title” of Church which lent them validity. In essence the unbeliever can now on one hand enjoy their fleshly desires while at the same time have the comfort (albeit false) that they are saved. Unfortunately for them they are being deceived and being lead into the pits of Hell by these Pied Pipers, heretical Teachers, and Pulpit Pimps.
Kyle
Melvin,
I have been telling people about this particular “misspeak” from Joel along with the 60 mintes interview when Byron Pitts asked him point blank why his book didn’t mention God or Jesus and the man said that he uses scripture.. what?? (If this isn’t a Hillary Clinton side-step) With books that should have been named “Your Best LIe Now” and “Become a Better Heathen” this man is as Eddie Murphy’s character in Coming to America said…”Good, and Terrible”!
Just wondering, has anyone heard anything about the new Prosperity Bible being published now? My brother out in Springfield took a pic of it on his cell phone and sent it to me. I am conflicted: I want to buy one just to say I own one (LOL!!) but I do not want to support such rubbish.
Christopher, here’s a link to Amazon’s website that sells this piece of garbage.
http://www.amazon.com/Prosperity-Bible-Greatest-Writings-Secrets/dp/1585426148
I found it ironic that P.T. Barnum is listed as one of the authors of The Prosperity Bible. The same P.T. Barnum who said “There’s a sucker born every minute”.
(MN: Actually, don’t get to upset about the prosperity bible. It’s a “bible” in the same since there are bibles for other areas of life. It’s an “all you need to know” reference/handbook kind of Bible. There is, for instance a Gun Owner’s Bible that has everything you need to know about guns in it. The book isn’t written for Christianity. It’s a compendium of articles by people who have written and spoken on prosperity, profit, and generally doing well in life.
Granted, some of the dupes of the prosperity gospel will read it. But their difficulty is the fact that they have gone down a bad path to begin with. )
What is so sad is a statement made by one of the reviewers of this book:
I just wanted to say to everyone, the answers that I have been searching for, is all warp up in the Prosperity Bible, things that I could not understand about the KJ Bible is making sence to me now, and if I do what this book is saying to me, then I am on my way to being the Millionaire that I always thought and wanted to be. To me it was the missing piece of the puzzle, and I have found it in my “KEEP SAKE”, because this book “The Prosperity Bible” is a keep sake
SMH (sighing)……..
(MN: I had originally gone over the quote and corrected the more obvious mistakes. I thought Shaking had made a couple of mistakes in copying the quote. However, I visited Amazon.com myself and saw the comment. Shaking copied it exactly right. Scroll down to the Comments section and take a look. )
So then this statement was a Freudian slip:
….is all warp up in the Prosperity Bible….
This is another gospel. Truly it is warped.
The church and the world seem to be on the same page with the “don’t judge me” circuit, just listen to some of the repulsive lyrics in todays music (if you can stomach it) and the message is the same , whats RIGHT is the wrong way and whats wrong is the RIGHT WAY, very crazy isn’t it?
Yeah, right…You try to mind your business. That’s a good one! Good Post! Thanks.
(MN: What?!?!? You don’t believe me? I’m crushed. )
Melvin I don’t understand how people sit under that nonsense.
I’ve been waiting for a new blog and boy did I get it! Yea the joker as I like to call him due to a piano key layout being displayed every time he opens his mouth. Not a surprise while the happy fun time ministry is in full gear what time for theological differences between Mormonism and Christianity could be revealed? Perhaps Joel should take the mantel of Houston hustler for this site.
(MN: I believe that moniker has already been assigned to the pastor and pastorette of New Light there in Houston. )
One of my biggest problems with Willow Boy is that people listen to him and say he is a great motivational speaker. If he pushed himself as nothing more than a motivational speaker, I’d leave his behind alone. But he claims to be one representing Jesus Christ. He stands in a place of someone who would represent God. Virtually nothing that comes out of his mouth has anything to doe with the God of the Bible and an awful lot to do with the God of the gnostics.
I get a tooth ache every time I listen to him speak.
I totally agree with you. IF Joel Osteen was a motivational speaker then I wouldn’t really have a problem with him either. But since he “claims” to be a man of God, he needs to actually open the Bible and read what it says. I was too through when he said that he doesn’t mention hell or sin. His syrupy sweet nonsense is leading people to Hell and he is the pilot!!
Mel, Keena,
We could say the same thing in general about TBN. If TBN pushed themselves as nothing more than a Ponzi Scheme I would leave them alone too. But since every pyramid scam needs its base of money providers the Crouches found an easy vast market segment called weak Christians to buy into there Christian AMWAY enterprise.
Kyle
Can I be your dentist?
A few years ago,I went to visit that place and initially,i was excited to see a person i saw on tv. Then as I discovered,they don’t open their Bibles and the only time it was used was when then held it in the air. I changed my mind about him after that. I have a sister in law who attends that place. I have been praying for her also as well as others. All it is is a motivational service or seminar. His wife is the same way,all motivation. Was his father like that? We live in San Antonio and i really don’t know. He is not a preacher for sure. I am calling it as i see it! It didn’t take long for me to see this!
Nope his dad was the real deal hence the 10,000 member church of his time. Opposed to the 100,000 plus version of Joel’s.
(MN: One note though. His dad started out Baptist and went over to the Charismatic/Pentecostal side and basically embraced the Pentecostal/Word of Faith teachings. I read at least one of his book and it was a straight charismatic treatise. He apparently was a follower of Hagin.
It would seem that the son has indeed done in excess what his father did in some moderation. His son not only left sound doctrine, but left even the Bible.
If nothing else, the result is a tremendous argument for men/husbands to live holy lives, not attempting to justify our weaknesses and indulge in them, but being willing and eager to tear them down where every they may appear. Our kids usually end up paying for our foolishness. And I’m not talking some idiotic generational curse here either .)
Melvin, are you saying that the elder Olsteen set up this scenario involving what his son,Joel is doing now? I was reading your response to danharr. Could you explain that? Please? I am thinking that’s what you are saying here. I may be wrong but it is important for the men/husbands to live holy lives since God recognizes the man as the spiritual priest of his home. The same holds true for us women/wives/mothers also.Thank you.
Mz Jeanie
(MN: Pretty much. The dad departed from the truth into Word of Faith and the church grew. The dad at least preached a shade of Jesus and actually looked at sin and all that negative stuff. The son has moved past the dad. The church is five times as big and the doctrine has nothing what so ever to do with Jesus in any way what so ever. The father moved away from the truth some. The son got as far away as he could without becoming an agnostic. What the father did in moderation, the son has done in excess. )
Y’know the Reformers taught one of the major things that define the nature of the true Church is the preaching of the Word. I always wonder how John Calvin, Martin Luther or John Knox would respond to attending a worship service at Willow Boy Club or Club New Birth? Just a thought…
RR,
Thanks for posting that info on Osteen’s congregation not even opening their Bibles. I’ve watched his ’show’ and had often wondered if they did anything other than wave those ‘Good Books’ in the air.
The mantra they chant while they hoist up their Bibles has always annoyed me:
–”This is my Bible”
(Good to see you didn’t ‘Steal This Book’, Joel!
Why don’t you say, “This is God’s Word”? Guess that would make it appear too much like “church” - with all those nasty “rules” created for Christians to follow…)
–”I am what it says I am”
(And what might that be? A sinner saved by grace, or a “Victor, not a Victim”? Or, are they referring to the “I AM” of the Bible? Doubt it - oh me of little faith.)
–”I have what it says I have”
(You mean like what it says in Job 7:5?:
~My flesh is clothed with worms and clods of dust; my skin is broken, and become loathsome.~
No, that’s way too negative a thought. Perish that “stinkin’ thinkin”!
It really means I can find a space right up front in a crowded mall parking lot without having to circle ’round and ’round. All I have to do is say a prayer and the Lord will bless me with His favor. I actually heard Joel say this once…)
–”I can do what it says I can do.”
(Like I can make the Bible mean anything I want it to mean, so I feel good as a Christian and never have to face my true depravity. Or, I can excuse my neglect of the Scriptures by telling people I’m an “encourager”, not a “theologian” - and that makes everything I say OK.)
–”Today, I will be taught the Word of God.”
(Of course, we use the NKJ translation - that is, the New King Joel Translation for you old fundies out there.)
– “I boldly confess, my mind is alert, my heart is receptive”
(Who are you trying to convince? God or the person sitting next to you? Or the millions of viewers out in TV land? )
–”I’m about to receive th