I’ve seen men faint during the wedding ceremony. I’ve seen a couple of men cry. I’ve even seen men stop the whole thing and walk/run away. But I have to say I have not seen a guy get so…uh…so…carried away during the ceremony. You think maybe he began to understand and marvel at the true gift that God gives us in our wives?
You gotta wonder what the first night was like though.
A tip of the hat for the reminder from Jahnea, by the way.
Now that is just plain silly [and a little hilarious..]. Hyper-Charismatic or otherwise, he should exercise a little restraint…although it is nice to see that he does appreciate the great joy of marriage
a little hilarious you say?…… wow…lol!!!!
Honestly, I don’t blame the dude. Depending on how old he was and how long he’s been waitn’n, praise God……” better to marry than to burn” (and apparently he was hot)…..
Yes sirrr…he was definitely on fire lol
LOL….This video is rather old. I saw this piece on America’s Funniest Home Videos a few years ago.
You’re right, dude does need to calm down….this is “praise” gone amuck.
The REALLY funny video that needs to be found was of a couple getting married at a church here in PHL back in 1998 where, as the guy was about to kiss the bride, the cops stormed in and placed him under arrest. Apparently, the guy had an outstanding warrant.
(MN: Sure it’s old. But we all need to be reminded of how we felt [even if we didn’t show it] when we got married. ] )
Well, I’m not there yet, but I do have a prospect on the horizon. :o)
I never felt this way. I mean, getting married, and having that whole experience is good and all, but it’s not like I was in the presence of God. As men, I do believe we ought to comport ourselves a little better than this.
This man displayed weakness, to where if his wife was manipulative, she can use this man’s energy and fascination for her, against him in the marriage by, in a subtle fashion, taking control over him, and the household…
I believe the last half of your statement is a bit far-fetched, but nonetheless, it stands to say that this guy is a nutcase and, if the woman had any sense, she would have ran.
It’s sad that so call smart people have no clue about the word of God or the Moving of God’s Spirit.
S.Jones, unless you are attempting to be sarcastic, you need to give some contextually and BIBLICALLY correct basis for your statement.
As you should see by now, statements such as yours usually do not get posted without rebuttal, with the goal to have spiritually sound and intellgent discussion surrounding what MANY in this thread has rightfully denounced.
Mr.Jones I don’t know what to say.
Flag!
Melvin, you didn’t have to go there brother.
She must really love him though, for her to kiss him after all that frothing of the mouth on his part
.
Seriously though, people who claim the Lord’s name acting like that makes saints look silly. Totally out of control behavior. Not something that would make unbelievers see us as anything other than MAD/INSANE/CRAZY. Just because “self control” is mentioned last in Galatians 5:22-23 does not mean we should treat it that way.
IC, I agree! His behavior does not represent Christ. However, it is indicative of the behavior some socalled “Pastors” train their followers to act -especially in many Pentecostal churches. The “whoop-and-holler” leaders in the church have led the foolish into believing they must carry-on like mindless lunatics and believe they are under the influence of the “Holy Ghost”. It may well be some ghost (or spirit), but I seriously doubt that it is the Holy Spirit.
I know of a man who’s wife spoke in tongues on their wedding night as they were consumating their marriage. Can you imagine that? It is time for the true worshipers to worship God and to move from the “form of Godliness” we see all too often in church.
BereanJim
I’m still wishing the makers of this blog software made a “shaking my head” smiley, because it would be appropriate for what you just described…
LOL @ IC….That is a true “shake-your-head” moment. Thankfully, I did not get too caught up in that behavior myself while I was in the church.
This does raise a related issue concerning this behavior. I will pose a question to someone that has gone to a service and ask what the topic of the message. They will tell me that they can’t remember (or they give a vague explanation), but they will certainly share that “…the spirit fell…” that day (i.e. emotinalism galore and no teaching). Absolutely pathetic.
I do hope you are able to find an assembly of saints to worship with in truth.
You know, when I used to embrace the pimps, I had lots of Sundays like that
.
Around the time I started reading the full chapters they would cherry pick verses from is when I realized literally over 10,000 people a meeting were being played in Eddie Long’s club alone. Which is where I was at when the Lord helped me snap out of the mess.
IC, again thanks for your concern (I like the devil face; pretty cool). I am still looking for a sound place of worship, but I find the topics on these sites (especially the video posting on your site concerning whether someone can ever lose his/her salvation) to be a very good lesson unto themselves.
As far as your raising the issue of “cherry-picking verses,” after taking the time to re-read scriptures and peruse these sites, in retrospect, I have been able to find numerous instances of such activity from the pulpit. That type of “teaching” quickly turned me off with my former pastor and those “guests” he would bring in to reinforce that garbage.
Was thinking the same thing last night!
What did they preach about?
What was the Scripture?
a blatant i don’t know to both questions!, sad!
Ha! I also know of a woman who spoke in tongues on her wedding night in the act of consumation! Yuk! and I believe in glossalalia!!! (In a very limited sense) I think both of these women should have given honor to whom honor was due! Smile.
Let the church say “amen” on that one!
How would you act if you won the lottery? Some people hoop and hollar, and jump up and down ect. are they acting silly and crazy? You don’t know this man’s situation… He could have been single for a VERY LOOOONG time, and thought this day might never come. It’s okay (or normal) for people to scream to the top of their laungs over a touchdow, or a slam dunk? There was this elderly lady (she passed on a few years ago), but every once in a while, she would cut loose during praise and worship, and I asked her why. She told me she was almost killed several times (in a car accident, an X husband shot at her, and she literaly felt the bullets whize through by her head, and through her hair). All of these things happened before she got saved, and if one of those inncodents had taken her out she would have been lost for ever. I mean just think about it, you were with an inch of eternity without being saved… that IS worth screaming about.
(MN: I don’t play the lottery. But the comparison is not valid. If nothing else, the lotto win is sudden and you are suprised. This wedding was, I assume, planned months in advance. I don’t scream over touchdowns, slam dunks, or other things. The lady in church is not the groom at a wedding. Again, circumstances. )
Using a sinful act and related rewards to compare to marriage. Interesting. Interesting is a BAD way, that someone would even propose such an analogy. Who knew I’d come to a Christian blog today and hear about government monopolized gambling, lottery.
Sports? I’ve seen avid sports fans better maintain their composure.
Did the old lady submit video of herself to a TV show in an effort to win $10,000? Case closed!
A football game is not found in Ephesians 5 as a representation of Christ relationship with the church, but marriage is! I’m not seeing the scripture where Jesus conducts Himself as the man in the video.
What part of SELF CONTROL being a FRUIT OF THE SPIRIT (Galatians 5:22-23) troubles you? The fruit of the spirit is NOT noted as reacting like a crowd watching their favorite team score. Even if a Christian cheers during a game it does not cause any unbeliever to think the Christian is INSANE OR A BIT UNSTABLE. However even the heathen knows a Christian wedding ceremony is a thing of ORDER.
1 Corinthians 14:23
Things done to the GLORY of God are not supposed to leave an impression of anyone suffering from mental illness. So I have to agree with Melvin. Efforts to compare with secular and out right sinful events is not a level comparison.
I say “TMI, my man. TMI.”
Speaking as a young single woman, this is what turns real women off from wanting to date men in the church - displays like this of effeminate behavior. Was he really that in love and thankful to God, or was he more so trying to put on a show for the guests? Because after all that shouting and hollering, that kiss he gave her was really weak.
REAL WOMEN in the church want REAL MEN!!! We don’t need you hooping and hollering all over the place to show that you love the Lord - that kind of behavior is not at all attractive. I was raised in the church and I say to this day that I don’t deal with “church boys” because they’re either more promiscuous than the men that aren’t in the church or they’re closeted homosexuals that are just looking for you to be their cover-up. Real men know this and its a major fact that keeps these men, especially Black men, from going to church regularly - whether they were raised in church or not, because they don’t want to be labeled in the same category with men like the one in this video. I’d rather get a man that may not go to church every Sunday but has a belief in Christ, as opposed to getting hooked up with a guy that acts like this one in the video. This is a mistake that so many single women make when they join churches foolishly expecting to “find their husbands” there.
Anonymous…. Couldn’t have said it better myself.
AMEN THAT IS WHY I STOPPED GOING TO CHURCH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Brenda B-
I appreciate your post; however, I am a bit curious… You used the phrase “REAL MEN.” Can you provide us with a biblically supported description/biblical characteristics of what a real man is. Also, can you share what biblical description/biblical characteristics this man failed to meet.
Absolutely… You can tell that she was totally embarrassed at her new hubby’s weak, effeminate display of bootleg ‘holay ghossss takeovah’! At my wedding the guests were praising the Lord in song and in spirit. No one acted a fool, out of order and the wedding still brings tears to my eyes when I watch it. You can tell that The Lord was present at my event (boasting in Him of course).
I wish I could laugh but guys like that make the gift of the spirit the joke it is in many peoples eyes.
Apologies if I come off crude…..but Whether the man spoke in “tongues” (or thought he did), Barked like a dog, groaned/prayed a prayer of thanksgiving for being able to “rejoice in his wife” (Proverbs 5:14-20), what difference does it make though?
Honestly (and if we’re going to be REAL here), would anyone care to think their actions in bed are any more respectable (i.e. playing games, reading books on different techniques, using “toys” if one does so, etc)? If you do those things (as many probably have), is that less fleshly in God’s Sight than a man apparently “babbling” (as some say) over his wife in God’s Sight?
Ultimately, It’s between the man and his lady…….
(MN: No. Ultimately it’s between him and whoever sees it. Let’s assume he is in fact a real live Christian. He has a job in the world. His boss tells him he got a promotion. A moment later, he’s shouting “Glory!”. walking down the hall, stomping, shaking his head, grimacing, and making lots of noises. How well does this represent Christ? How well does it represent Christianity? Has he made Christ look foolish? Is he indeed showing the dignity that we are told to develop and display? (Phil 4:8). Why would it be any different at a wedding?
The things we do as Christians are rarely simply between me and whoever I do it with. I could just as easily say that the behavior of the pimps who receive publicity on this site is between them and the pimped. But that would be a rather foolish thing to say.
While I am not saying the man was a horrible man for doing this, I will insist that his behavior showed a complete lack of maturity in Christ. It showed, at best, a lack of self-control and a loack of understanding of joy and its expression. The guests were there to watch the wedding, not listen to him jump, stomp, hoop, and holler. That would have been better left to their time together - alone, where indeed what happens is between him and her. )
Weddings are a ceremony always performed in front of witnesses. Scripture’s two witness standard is even considered in the laws of man, which require someone to perform the ceremony and at least one other witness. So by definition (using the law of God or man) it is NOT between just them. Beyond just 2 witnesses, they had other invited guests AND to top it off VIDEO TAPE. A video tape submitted to a national TV show. Who’s business is it? Now the entire body of Christ’s and the unbelieving world’s too, because it’s on display across the Internet.
Marriage is a flesh scale mirror of Christ relationship with the church, Ephesians 5. So what is done should be in decency and order. When the world sees a Christian marriage that makes them laugh at the couple, laugh at a Christian marriage ceremony and laugh at what is claimed to be a move of the Holy Spirit, it brings no honor to God and shame on the church. The church becomes the exact same side show seen in the videos played on COMEDY shows featuring that and this other nonsense that you mentioned. Anytime the comedy shows are short on material GO TO A CHURCH MEETING, SURE TO BE SOMETHING TO LAUGH AT!
And the submission of the wedding video to the TV show was for the $10,000 prize, which was won. So the mess becomes a tool for cash. Let the whole world laugh at what should be an example of Ephesians 5 and get paid. I’m not seeing Christ in it.
A fake move of God, used as a tool for cash. A most fitting video for display here on Pulpit Pimps!
Would someone please clarify why the “Toronto Blessing” has anything to do with the issue? Not being rude, but confused as to why that’s included….as you don’t have to even believe “barking” during your consumation with one’s spouse is the same as those who do so in the HYPER-CHARISMATIC extensions during CHURCH MEETINGS (which I strongly disagree with).
In any case, my Original comments were in reference to Berean Jim’s comment regarding the issue of a man he knew of whose wife spoke in tongues on their wedding night as they were consumating their marriage.
Gxg asked:
Because you stated the following:
All features of the same mess. So it’s most fitting.
You mentioned your comment was in response to Berean Jim’s comment, who spoke about A WOMAN doing such, but your comment is regarding what a man does, while the actions of a man have been the focus here. You got into what is done in private in the 2nd paragraph of your prior comment.
Perhaps if you had said “she” instead of “he” your comment might have been taken differently.
It’s all faking moves of the Holy Spirit, fake, false fake. In your house, in the assembly, faking, fakady, fake, fake.
I hear you IC, its what is called “hyper-spiritualism”. You have to bark like a dog, jump around on one foot like a monkey, and run around the church like the Indy 500 to show that the “Spirit” is moving on you. What happened to being dignified and showing constraint? This is more of a side show than anything else. And what makes it worse is that some people would see this and try to admonish the brothers to act like that…. Wow!
And if he did that in private, he’d have to be pretty far from any neighbors for nobody else to hear.
I’d hate to be the mailman delivering a package
. An unbelieving mailman might think the Christian is MAD/INSANE/CRAZY.
Melvin, I rarely say this, but I agree with you on this one…
Well all I can say is that the video is funny as you know what. I got excited at my wedding and did a wave to God in praise and excitement. That was ten years ago and I’m now happily divorced! LOL. I say that in jest, but I can definitely understand the brother’s emotional outburst (especially assuming if he were like me and my bride at the time, abstinent and waiting for our wedding night to even passionately kiss). I don’t think that it makes believers look foolish because I’ve seen much more at some unbeliever’s weddings. I also don’t think it is fair to say that some pastor’s train their members to do that. It’s a bit more expressive than others, but we should always be careful. Excitement is what excitement does. Either way, that video is still funny after the many times I have viewed it.
HE APPEARS TO HAVE A GAY SPIRIT (MN: Captain, we have deployed the Gaydar. Detecting gays at 123 point 45 mark 123. System is locked on and awaiting your orders sir. ), SORRY IF I DISCERN THIS INCORRECTLY. IF I WAS THE BRIDE,,, I WOULD HAVE WALKED HOME.!!!! ( out of shame and anger) THIS MAN IS TOO FEMININE AND NOT MANLY AT ALL. COME ON NOW,,, NONE OF THIS IS NECESSARY,,, NONE OF IT. MY HUSBAND AND I BOTH WERE TOTALLY ASHAMED OF THIS MESS, WHEN WE SAW IT ON TV.
THAT IS WHY CHRISTIANS ARE LAUGHED AT AND MOCKED. … (JUST MY OPINION)
Well I guess any man would do because she’s tired of the single life.
Ummmmm, what is a “gay spirit”? Is that a biblical term or is it something that is comical?
Saiko, c’mon man……..you know, the “gay spirit” is like the “Jezebel spirit” and the “gluttony spirit” and the “witchcraft spirit”, etc etc etc. Don’t you watch TBN??
Whenever there’s a manifestation of an uncontrolled flesh, folks just like to say it’s a “spirit” so they don’t have to face the fact that the flesh needs disciplining.
I’m going to have to ask you to turn in your Marilyn Hickey Spiritual Breakthrough Prayer Cloth until you get your mind right. That’s too much power in the hands of a spiritual warfare neophyte like you
People tend to favor the stance “You have demonic forces/spirits that are tempting your flesh regarding being gay”
(MN: And Scripture supports this idea where, exactly? You get one posting to address it, so make it good. )
The old former “Pentecostal Holiness” me really wants to offer Gxg a hand with this, but looking at scripture, I’ve got no ammo.
It’s temptation of the flesh.
We do have cases of evil spirit influence like in Acts 16:16 and other cases, but homosexuality is a form of fleshly lust. I’ve been looking and can’t attribute the activity to a spirit overtaking or driving a person to that particular sin. It’s the flesh.
To Gary V yes ser’ nothing but the flesh but we always need to put the blame on someone else. When we can’t controlled ourselves.
AAAAAAAAAMEN DTG
No, no, no, you can have anything else that I have, but please don’t take my “prayer cloth” (LOL)!
Hey DTG,and Saiko, whats up fellas I enjoyed the teleconference this past weekend. It was the first time I called and I thought it was cool. DTG I also recall you may be reconsidering your hard stance on church fellowship. Maybe you can call the brother in this wedding video and see where he attends service. LOL I’m kidding of course.
I too think his behavior is quite silly. However I am not prepared to say his rejoicing isn’t sincere or to question his manhood as some are doing. I mean come on ,can we make a assumption that the brother’s marraige has failed based on a 2 minute video?
I was thinking about that this morning while I was on the elliptical machine this morning at the gym. I was listening to my praise music on my mp3 player. I just began to thank the Lord for all He is in my life and well to just praise Him. Not in a loud wild way, I was singing quietly where my neighbor could probably hear me. Was I too loud , or too public with my worship? I don’t think so but some may have been offended . I’m not sure I really didn’t care.
Was I doing it to bring attention to myself, of course not. Who wants to see a out of shape sweaty brother singing Chris Tomlin songs. I have no doubt some may think my place of worship was inappropriate. Maybe others think I shouldn’t raise my hands in worship in public. I guess my point is we should we be careful at judging others motives when it comes to something as personal as worship/praise.
(MN: Please don’t any of you have a heart attack. I don’t think there is an inappropriate place to worship God. It’s the mode, if you will, and the assumption that God’s Spirit is behind some particular behavior. Were you out of place worshiping God in the gym? I hope not. I used to attend a church that met at a YWCA, in the exercise and dance room. Behind the preacher was a poster of a set of legs in leg warmers. And off to the right was a stack of step exercise equipment and exercise balls. But I guarantee you I felt more “worshipful” there than I ever could in the First Baptist Church of Glenarden Monument and Mausoleum. Worshiping God at the gym while you do the elliptical is fine. I would have a problem though, if you jumped off the elliptical and started stomping around the room, shouting “GLORY!!! Thank you Jesus! Hallelujah!” I don’t believe this is real worship, just as I don’t believe the fellow’s actions were either the Spirit moving in his life, or a valid form of worship. He might have been happy. But he had no idea of how to express that happiness.
It’s like a kid who gets a cookie and kind of dances around before he eats it. It’s cute when a kid does it. It’s a little creepy when an adult does the same thing in the cafeteria line at work. )
What’s up JCrept32 it was nice to have you on.
But let me say this it wasn’t my stance on fellowship. It was my stance on membership and tenetship my friend. Also those unwritten rules with membership I need say no more!!
Church membership is just another form of legalliam,
MSAMU,
If this is the case, Paul, Timothy, Titus, Peter, and John were all legalists so you better start tearing books out of your bible brother. The call to a local fellowship is a direct reflection of your call to the universal body. The universal church was purchased by the blood of Christ. The local fellowships are to be small pockets and representatives of the Universal Truth. Each of the Epistles are addressed to “LOCAL” fellowships. if we reject the local fellowship we are in turn rejecting the universal fellowship, which in turn is giving Christ the middle finger after He gave His very life to purchase her!
(MN: I will allow four comments [not counting mine, of course] to the comment made by MSAMU.
An observation: MSamu is not necessarily saying that it’s legalistic to fellowship with a specfic local group of believers. He is saying that if the local fellowship has a requirement for membership, then they are being legalistic. Of course, Msamu doesn’t clearly state what he considers a requirement. For instance, I can attend a church, take communion, go to Bible Study and a host of other things without membership. As an example of this, Calvary Chapel does not require membership or a declaration of membership, receiving the right hand of fellowship, or a host of other items for the laity. Instead, there is the idea of commitment to the local body, comitting your gifts and talents to the local body.
A church that requires membership in order to contribute to the local body doesn’t prevent fellowship. The requirement doesn’t prevent friendships and participation in Bible Studies, conferences, and other “church” activities. But it does provide a sense of accountability and a standard for care. Can you get the same thing without “membership” and looking at a commitment to the local church? Sure. In fact membership without the underpinning of commitment is worthless and yes, lagalistic.
The primary consideration with membership in a lot of churches is to provide a demarcation, an ability to say “This person is not a part of this local church and you should not judge us by the behavior of this person.” Will the unsaved at the job or in society in general understand this? Some will, some won’t. But it does provide a method for disciplining the errant participant in the local body. )
Msamu,
I believe you meant to say “legalism” in your post, but I will let you slide on that one. But let me ask you and others who disdain church membership a question: Do you consider it “legalism” when you have to sign an “agreement” form to live in the house or apt. you are now living in? Or should they just take your word by “faith” that you will do what you say you will do? (Yeaaaaah, right)! Here’s another one: What about that car or other mode of transportation that you use (of course most of us don’t roll like that to pay cash for EVERYTHING we want to purchase like some of us, but I digress)? Do you think that the dealership will out of the joy and fullness of the Spirit that they see in your eyes just GIVE you whatever your eyes desire w/o signing a contract, (oops, I mean “agreement”)? It’s amazing to me that those of you who think that joining a church that is predicated upon a committment to formally identify themselves by becoming members of a church through signing a church agreement is legalistic, I could not disagree with you more.
I would say that it is hypocritical for anyone to make judgments about the freedom that ANY church has to function themselves as long as it doesn’t violate the principles set forth in Scripture but then turn around and subject themselves to things which has NO ETERNAL VALUE WHATSOEVER through signing a contract (i.e. car, house, credit cards, etc)! I get it! Maybe we love things more than we say we do and have no problem obligating ourselves to things that we value and desire as long as it brings us satisfaction and pleasure (Hmmmmm). As shepherds, we are called to protect the flock from those that would do harm to the body of Christ and one of the ways to practically protect and govern those who God has called to lead is through holding each other accountable within the body of Christ (I know you may disagree with the term “called” Msamu, but I would encourage you to check out Rom. 10:15 which rejects your view of God calling those He has saved to serve).
Church assembly membership rolls of some sort are as old as the early church. Not that it somehow “saves” someone to be an on roll member of an assembly, faith in Christ saves, so having membership rolls is NOT legalism.
If having a form of membership is legalism, please explain why in 1 Timothy 5 instructions are given about which widows to enroll for care of the church and those not to enroll? And who is to be held accountable for their care if there is no membership roll?
If elders desire to reach those whose souls they watch over (Hebrews 13:17 which I know you might take issue with, but I don’t) and desire to do so via mailing everyone. To include those who might not be able to attend meetings, they could send a mailing. But how is that done without a membership role, to have information about who these people are and how to reach them?
Really, you, me and others around here a while know why you’re seeing this differently. But perhaps you can address what I’ve asked above with a response from scripture without having to go into that other thing. But perhaps that is not possible.
Melvin, if I fit in with the four replies, cool, and if not, that’s ok!
Don’t forget the appointment of deacons, dudes. The early church appointed deacons for the care of the poor and the widowed inside the church.
There are also frequent references throughout the NT to those inside and outside the church. If formal church membership is “legalism,” such a distinction is nonsensical. How, for instance, could Paul instruct the Corinthian church on putting the immoral man out of their fellowship if he had never been in it — i.e. formally connected with them — to begin with? Or how could he have instructed them to return the immoral man to fellowship after he had repented of his sin if they kept no records of his status with their body of believers?
So much of the NT instruction on discipline, pastoral care, even things like spiritual gifts (how to behave in an orderly way so as not to confuse outsiders) makes no sense without some kind of formal covenant relationship among a local gathering of believers.
To I.C No it’s “NOT POSSIBLE” to go into the scriptures without going into “that other thing”
While I don’t find official church membership (signing a paper) at all legalistic. I also don’t find it all necessary. Saiko presents a good arguement. However until one becomes truely obedient to the Lord and decides to be faithful to a local body no paper he/she signs will make them do so.
I was a spiritual rebellious knucklehead who didn’t want to submit to any spiritual authority. I signed the membership papers at several churches. However I rarely went and when I did go all I would do was find things I didn’t like about the church.
Then I finally went to a church that challenged me with the word. The pastor told me the truth, that serving the Lord with my whole heart wasn’t optional I began to grow and change.
Now at the latter church they did not require signing any membership papers. As we all know desiring fellowship and serving the Lord’s saints is a matter of the heart and not the pen. Im not saying I coudn’t have been blessed in those former churches I went to. Nor am I saying that the signing of papers is a hinderance in ones spiritual growth. I guess I took a lot of space saying I don’t think it matters one way or another.
Gold Star for Laura and Saiko!!!!!! I actually upgrade them to Platinum!
Nobody claims signing a marriage certificate is legalism.
And Laura was correct to note how 1 Corinthians 5 requires someone to have been a MEMBER of something with RULES and certain STANDARDS in order for them to be kicked out of it. What is “it”? The local church.
Hey Melvin can we get a Church Membership Post. I think Michael, Derrick, Saiko, IC and myself (Laura also) are using different words to define the same thing. No one is talking about a building, no one is talking about signing anything we are talking about a group of believers who come together to worship God, administer the ordiances and spur one another on to Love and Good deeds, and just as importantly employing the Gifts given to you by the Spirit for the edification of the “Body” of our Lord. This is to be done a scheduled place in a scheduled time and is to be practiced regualrly. This is the what the bible calls the “church” we all know the Greek so we aren’t going to play that game; however, the word for a local assembly is the same for the universal body and the local assemblies purpose is to represent the universal. We can’t play games with what the bible says.
If someone tells me “I don’t have to do that” then I would challenge their commitment to Christ. I almost border on the line of calling them a non-Christian. If you don’t love what Christ loves, if you don’t do what Christ says, and we don’t love WHO Christ loves the way Christ COMMANDS us to love them then it may be evident that we are not of Christ. This isn’t about Pastors, Bishops, Church Buildings, Pledge Cards, or anything else. This is about who Christ purchased with His blood which is the Church universal; but locally worked out.
Melvin, your spot on,
the mind is a wonderful thing.
I blogged about that very thing recently, brother — the idea that if a person steadfastly refuses to join himself with a local body, he’s putting his spiritual life in serious jeopardy.
May I link to my blog here, Melvin? Here’s my post about church membership and church discipline.
(MN: I would be honored Laura. Nice posting by the way. I’m sending DTG and MSAMU over right now so they can stand at your virtual doorstep and make impolite noises. )
Yes Laura you are right in the first century there natural life was at stake. Then those that that shall “endure unto the END” the same shall
be saved Laura Matthew 24:13
Does Salvation end at the first century too?? Because the letters about that were addressed to first century people too Derrick. How precisely do you cherry pick which parts of the Bible are only for first century folks??
I thought that was strange too, Gary, since I said nothing about natural life. Maybe I need to clarify. Derrick, I think that if someone continually refuses to join himself with a local congregation, he is in SPIRITUAL danger. In other words, he is in danger of being one of those mentioned in 1 John 2:19 — someone who looks saved but is not in fact saved.
Agreed Laura………while cultural/national/political paradigms may shift, spiritual ones do not. Men are still now as they ever were: depraved God-haters who would all reject Him were it not for God’s Sovereign Election.
That being the case, spiritual issues are not subject to change as cultural/historical issues are subject to change. No matter when or where men were born, they are born enemies of God. No matter where or when men were born, the solution to their spiritual doom doesn’t change because all men everywhere have only one recourse for their sin, and that’s Christ.
Church is not a national/cultural issue that can be set aside, because (as Derrick is so fond of pointing out) the church is a spiritual entity. Paul knew that too (as does everyone else with a Bible), and yet he continually called everyone to be joined to a local body under the leadership of Elders.
Paul was well aware that the church was not a building, but believers. And he commands all believers to be under the spiritual authority and discipline of Elders. That is not cultural, nor national. It’s spiritual.
LOL
Maybe it’s just me,but I was flat nervous at my wedding. I was going to make a covenant with GOD. I was overjoyed, but it was tempered by the sobriety of knowing with Whom I was making covenant (not just my bride, but God).
well i know it was just me, but when my brother, who was filming my wedding asked me how i felt, as if on cue, i started singing, “i feel pretty” (from west side story). all of the jitters kicked in later.
as for the couple in the video, i hope they’re doing well.
What was that all about. Don’t figure.
I am afraid that he, and those like him, will show the same exact behavior at a church member’s funeral.
“Oh, he graduated! He’s with the Lord!” Jump up and down and shout Hallelujah! Sing a rousing victory song. Yes, they certainly may be with the Lord; but why did the disciples make great lamentation for him at his death and burial in Acts 8? They were filled with the Spirit. Didn’t they know how to whoop it up over his victory? They knew for certain Stephen was with the Lord. After all, just moments before he proclaimed that he saw the heavens opened with Jesus standing (in honor, I believe). That was a glorious martyrdom, but his loss was keenly felt. Tabitha in Acts 9 had all the widows weeping at her death. Her loss was keenly felt. A Christian’s death should be mourned, not celebrated. They’re dead and you’ve lost a valuable member of the Body. Ok, I got off topic, but these strangenesses are related in Charismatics way too much. It’s an embarrassment. It is modeled by these flash and fire pastors who keep their people mesmerized by histrionics when they preach rather than teaching and modeling truth.
One of the best definitions of salvation that ever came into my mind was that salvation makes you normal. It is what is meant by God in Ezekiel 36 “I will take the heart of stone out of your flesh and give you a heart of flesh.”
God gives us a heart of flesh, meaning He restores normal humanity after repentance, without the stoniness of sin any more - childlikeness without childishness.
So, I look for normalcy in people claiming salvation. No excessive or unnatural ways about them like this fellow showed. Christians should have a mature sense of occasion and keep it.
Stan-
I understand your criticism of this brother; however, how do we define “normalcy in people claiming salvation?” For example, if a person cried everyday for a year after the death of a loved one-would that be considered normal? What if they cried everyday for two years (2 hours per day)? How do we determine what is “normal” human behavior? Also, what would a mature sense of occassion have looked like in this case? Moreover, what objective would have been used to measure it? By the way, I am not affirming the behavior exhibited in the video (lol).
Ditto on the thoughts, Brah.
Perhaps it’d be beneficial to to go in the direction of what is the proper role of emotions (i.e. shouting for joy, excitement, sobriety, etc) according to Scripture and how they took place, plus whether there are any similarities today…as well as the issue of CULTURE itself since in many countries, it would not even be seen remotely odd for one to shout at the announcement of what we call “kissing the bride” or for the MYRIAD of things much more ECCENTRIC/CRAZY than the man in the video…..
(MN: But we’re not in one of those countries in which it wouldn’t have seemed odd. Hey, strip joints are okay since in some countries the women don’t cover their breasts. Right? The point most people get is that his behavior, here in this culture, made him look like a crazy and makes Christianity look pretty foolish. Why do you so consistently insist on pulling fairly irrelevant ideas into these discussions? )
Because you’re arguing from a ONE-SIDED View. (MN: Of course I’m arguing from one side. Why would I argue from two. I just happen to think that my side is correct. And you haven’t said anything to either define the “other side” or to demonstrate the validity of that other side. ) In your words,
MN: “The point most people get is that his behavior, here in this culture, made him look like a crazy and makes Christianity look pretty foolish.”
And whose STANDARD are we going by? (MN: At the moment, the standard is THIS CULTURE. If I were among the Hutu, I would have to modify the standard. ) You at one point brought up the issue that a man would be foolish if he has a job in the world and after hearing His boss tell him he got a promotion starts shouting “Glory!”, walking down the hall, stomping, shaking his head, grimacing, and making lots of noises.” How well does this represent Christ?”
So that now becomes the STANDARD OF WHAT THE GOSPEL (I Corinthians 15:1-11, Titus 3, John 3 (THE CORE OF CHRISTIANITY) is all about????? (MN: Sorry - I don’t see how you came to this particular conclusion. In fact, I’m not even sure I understand your conclusion. ) Please. The man’s actions Doesn’t mean the man preached a FALSE CHRIST if he did so, nor that his actions GENERALLY CONVICTED others of the need for salvation and how sin is an issue……and there are PLENTY OF SITUATIONS where HYPER-CHARISMATICS have been on the job doing such things as the man in the video did and their BOSSES HAVE BEEN JUST FINE. Why? Because everything else in their lives was glorifying the Lord (Matthew 5:13-14).
(MN: GDub, your argument is specious. How can you say “and there are PLENTY OF SITUATIONS where HYPER-CHARISMATICS have been on the job doing such things as the man in the video did and their BOSSES HAVE BEEN JUST FINE”? Do you know personally, or at least have been told by eye-witnesses about these plenty of people? No one said he preached a false gospel. No one said he preached anything at all. I hope to God he doesn’t preach if he is as undisciplined as he demonstrated during the wedding. )
People got a laugh out of the video because the man was eccentric. Doesn’t mean they took the man as a representation of all that entails FOLLOWING CHRIST. (MN: Right. Just like people don’t come to any conclusions about Christianity based on the behavior of the pimps. I will maintain that the man made Christianity look like a fantasy just as the pimps make Christians look like a set of mind numbed robots. They, like the Jews mentioned in Romans, dishonor God (Rom 2:23). Do you really think Paul stomped his feet while he was bent over hollering “δόξα!!”?)
Perhaps in YOUR EXPERIENCES it was seen as a problem, but unbelievers seeing the man’s actions as a bad image on Christ depends on a MYRIAD OF FACTORS.—-Your DEMOGRAPHIC area, peopl’es personal views on what is “overboard or not”, how well people know you, etc. (MN: It’s fascinating to watch you wander away from the subject. None of us know the man. Of the millions of people who have seen him, none of them know the man. In the culture of the vast majority of the people who saw him, his behavior is viewed as abnormal, aberrant. None of your “what-ifs” really have anything to do with the subject.
You have one response left on this subject. I suggest you make it really good. )
@ PreacherK. The Bible defines certain aspects of the emotional life in humans as being wrong: Excessive affection, unnatural affection, and past feeling, (callous). These are all abnormal effects of sin on the soul. They are in various degrees in all of us because of sin and the general corruption of humanity.
I don’t have some sort of yardstick to determine, say, how much grief is normal. The person’s overall behavior and personality would have to be taken into account in order to determine if his grief was normal. People who are given to excessive affections may very well display excessive grief. People who are past feeling may exhibit little to no grief. People with unnatural affections would whoop it up at a funeral.
I selected the word “normal” deliberately, and not “typical” or “usual” because it comes from the word “norm” which means “standard” or “natural.” God’s Word is our “norm” or “standard.” He tells us how we are to live. Even about grief, we are commanded not to grieve as the others who have no hope. So, God’s word places a reasonable limit on even that tremendous emotion. He does not want it excessive, otherwise, He would not have mentioned it in His word.
“Normal,” is something I think people know when they see it. The man in the video was clearly demonstrating unnatural affection because his behavior was unnatural to the occasion. Everyone, including his poor bride, was aware of it but him. I ask myself where he got that. Maybe it was his own personality aberration; but I believe his church and/or denomination is responsible. I know I can’t prove that his reaction to the trigger phrase “the power of the Holy Spirit” came from his church, but, if I were a gambling person, I’d bet the farm on it.
My big concern about this issue of normalcy is not so much about the individuals in the churches who have extreme or strange traits; it’s more about what they’re being taught and how they’re being handled by leadership. In my experience, some people that are undisciplined or out-of-control are given platforms of ministry by the pastors because that is the way the pastors are too.
In the process of restoring the soul from sin and its effects as part of the salvation experience, one would expect to see believer’s affections go from excessive to controlled, to go from unnatural to natural and go from past feeling to having normal feelings - “a heart of flesh” as promised by God in Ezekiel 36. Even if the process were slow, it should be detectable. As Paul said “let your progress be evident to all.”