Every time I lay out the blatant violations of one of the pimps, I can be guaranteed that one or more of you, even if it’s a drive by commenter, is going to bleat “Touch No-o-o-o-t God’s Anoooiiiinted!” The result of that bleating can, quite literally, be a beating or humiliation at the Mand of Gawd, and worse.
Before I go any further, I want you to understand something: Sherman Allen is a low life. As I have said, yes, we all fall short of the glory of God. But that doesn’t keep us from identifying and warning people about men who are obviously in the pastor thing for money, or sex, or both.
We’ve covered two sex pimps previously. There was your boy Terry Hornbuckle, now biding his time in prison and trying to avoid becoming some bad man’s girlfriend, and Earl Paulk, the man who finally admitted to being his nephew’s father…or his son’s uncle, or something; and who managed to convince several foolish women at the Holy Spirit Cathedral near Atlanta that God had ordained that they were to satisfy his sexual needs. Funny, I thought that was one of his wife’s privileges. I wish I could talk that smoothly to the mortgage company and convince them that God wants them to give me my house for free. But I digress.
Mr. Allen, Mr. Sherman Allen is pretty much Hornbuckle on steroids. According to the papers out of Dallas (do you think maybe it’s something in the water out there?). Sherman Allen, a pastor of the Church of God in Christ (COGIC) and been laying hands, paddles, and a host of other paraphernalia on a variety of women for quite some time.
While I will link you to the Dallas article, here , a sense of propriety prohibits me from describing some of the stuff this guy has been credibly accused of. When you finish, use the Melvinite Temple eye wash you bought after you read the Tonex posting.
The first question: What do we learn about the importance of right doctrinal understanding? Answer? It’s critical. Right doctrine protects the sheeple. It protect the pastor and the rest of the elders. It protects the name of Jesus Christ.
While I don’t by any stretch of the imagination, wish to imply that these women were at fault, I will maintain that a rightly taught congregation of men and women who are truly seeking God are not likely to fall into the kind of trap set by Mr. Allen. They are even less likely to have been misguided enought to hang around a church such as his.
Here’s what one of his victims said:
Kelly, the daughter of a Church of God in Christ pastor from California, says she accepted the beatings from Allen because he persuaded her that they were necessary for her spiritual growth. She trusted Allen, who calls himself a prophet and is known throughout black Pentecostal circles for his popular prophetic conferences, and deferred to his pastoral judgment because she was in awe of his knowledge and reputation as a man of God
Did you catch that? Spanky was able to convince her to take the whippings because she was in awe of his knowledge and reputation as a man of God. She accepted him as a prophet. He held lots of prophetic conferences. I’m willing to bet he’s held in such high regard because could quote a few Bible verses and tell a couple of stories from the Bible by memory. He could not possibly have been teaching them very much if she thought that getting whacked by a board was going to help her grow spiritually.
And you have be at least a little curious about what he said to convince her that a whack or two to the bum was the way to holiness? What he do, quote a couple of verses from the Gospel According to St. Paddy?
This guy is, in my view, an especially low sort of predator, half a step above child molesters. He apparently took serious advantage of these women’s (there are twentyof them standing in line to point the finger) ignorance, gullibility, and naiveté. He was willing to twist scripture and deceive these women just to engage in some really twisted…activities. I won’t call it sex. I hold sex in way too high a regard to besmirch it like that.
But again, the primary lesson out of this is not that perpetrators are in the church (obviously they are), but rather, we should study the Word for ourselves so we can spot them and see when leadership is failing to do its job.
The second question is: Why in the world did the COGIC ordain this bozo to begin with? According to the article, he was a warlock, a practitioner of Voodoo and was the pastor of a Spiritualist church. These are all things COGIC is very much opposed to.
I gotta wonder though, just what verses did he have her memorizing?
This is the number 1 reason she fell for it and others will continue to fall for these evil con men.
So long as a single person believes (and some always will), that there are men in our modern day who can speak a word to someone and they must do it or be in sin before God, this con game will always be (and it will always be).
There is no man in modern day that holds the true office of “prophet” as it once was.
He probably just read her OT verses of people dying for not listening to a “prophet” and she fell for it.
All the ultra charismatic junk provided him a gateway to toss in the voodoo garbage.
Why is everyone so surprised at what these false preachers are doing? First of all the bible (which is true…..so I believe what it says) it says in 1 John:3:7-10 Little children, LET NO MAN DECIEVE YOU: HE THAT DOES RIGHTEOUSNESS IS RIGHTEOUS, EVEN AS HE (Jesus, God the Father) IS RIGHTEOUS.
HE THAT COMMITS SIN IS OF THE DEVIL (meaning not saved); FOR THE DEVIL SINNED FROM THE BEGINNING. FOR THIS PURPOSE the Son of God was manifested, THAT HE MIGHT DESTROY THE WORKS OF THE DEVIL. Whosoever is born of God DOES NOT COMMIT SIN (no matter what the unskilled and unlearned say); for his (Jesus) seed remains in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
IN THIS the children of God are manifest, and THE CHILDREN OF THE DEVIL: whosoever DOES NOT RIGHTEOUSNESS IS NOT OF GOD (that is it that is all), neither he that loves not his brother.
So we see that they are the children of the devil……with that in mind the bible also says: 2 Peter 2:10-14 But chiefly them THAT WALK AFTER THE FLESH in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous are they, selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities. Whereas angels, which are greater in power and might, bring not railing accusation against them before the Lord.
But these, as natural brute beasts, MADE TO BE TAKEN AND DESTROYED, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption; and shall receive the reward of unrighteousness, as they that count it pleasure to riot in the day time (sinners). Spots they are and blemishes, sporting themselves with their own deceivings while they feast with you; HAVING EYES FULL OF ADULTERY, AND THAT CANNOT CEASE FROM SIN; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children:
so we see that not only are they the children of the devil the bible also says that they cannot cease from sin……everything that the devil is…….these false preachers/teachers are.
My heart aches for those victims. Reading that link left a bitter taste in my mouth. It’s disgusting what men do “in the name of God.” This misuse of scripture and spirituality is truly frightening.
Much to pray about. I appreciate your work, Melvin. It’s not only inspiring (your conviction to share and root out the lies and deception), but it’s a constant reminder of the sincerity we must strive to maintain as Christians in a day and age where the world tends to look at all preachers and churches as becoming one and the same.
I can guarantee you that he used Proverbs 23:14 - “Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell.” Another ‘twisted’ pimp, twisting scripture for his own sick and demonic satisfaction. What amazes me is that over 20 women fell for this! And from reading the article, I see that he was in T. Dexter Jakes’ circle. I hope that T.D. won’t use Proverbs 23:14 in his “Women thou art loose” conferences (tongue in cheek).
To Mel and anyone asking this question:
“Why in the world did the COGIC ordain this bozo to begin with? According to the article, he was a warlock, a practitioner of Voodoo and was the pastor of a Spiritualist church. These are all things COGIC is very much opposed to.”
(BLD) Here’s the simple answer: He was able to send enough $M-O-N-E-Y$ up the chain. That’s how you get the backing and promotion of the COGIC. Prove you can help the “Bishop’s Appreciation Fund” stay in the black and you’ve got a pretty secure spot. This is just one of many stories. The others just haven’t been made public yet but it is more than likely on the way.
There are so many sad things to note about this situation. The gullability of the women. The absence of the men. (except two) The parents who abdicated their responsibilities. The demonic mesmerization of the entire congregation. The compromise of the District Superintendent and State Bishop. (who was also on the National Board).
These types of things were what caused me much confusion as to why my father stayed in this organization. They have the same method of cover-up as the Roman Catholic organization WITHOUT THE RELOCATION! That’s right, the COGIC will shun the people that are bringing the accusation before they’ll remove a pastor even if the evidence is factual.
Mel, I wonder if either of your two favorite COGIC pastors will chime in on this?
you hit the nail square on the head….if you can squall real good and raise an offering, you be a-ok in COGIC eyes….Sherman was supposedly on the fast track to becoming a bishop in COGIC..
I pretty sure he did a good song and dance about seeing th light. As Christians we’re supposed to give those who say they’ve turned from their wicked way a chance. So I highly doubt money was why he was let in but i’m wondering why no one in the cogic could pick up on this mans level of malevolence. The evil in him should’ve lit up the God in them like a Christmas tree unless they didn’t have any God in them to begin with. Another nail in the coffin of Jakes and Bynum once again super spritual people and they couldn’t see some demon possessed guy for what he truly is.
Man you’re right. The COGIC is a very corrupt denomination that sickens me to the core. Most of their ministers (not all) are jokes, and really don’t believe in God the way they ought to. With many of these devils, it’s all about money.
I hope that denomination sinks fast.
I have my reasons for saying this…
(MN: There are some guys who not only seem sincere, but are trying to be real, knowledgeable undershepherd. A couple of guys out of Sacramento, Macias and Collins, seem like a stand up couple of guys.
Not all COGIC folks are like Little Stevie Wonder or Spanky.
And actually, if you go out and visit my old buddy Mr. Burnett, he’s actually turning out some pretty good stuff. )
Seekerman,
It sounds like you have some serious issues brother. Why so much emphasis on the denomination and not on the “man” who perpetrated the offense. The COGIC is not a corrupt denomination. We believe in the power of God for restoration, healing and the ability to live a holy lifestyle. Don’t get me wrong, there are a few knuckleheads and lovers of money(as with any denomination). How can you speak for most COGIC pastors? We are a denomination of over 6 million people. Do you know 1/100th of all COGIC pastors. It sounds as if you had some horrible experiences within the COGIC and this was your opportunity to express your frustration. The pastors I have sat under have been honorable shepherds that are concerned about my SOUL, not my MONEY.
Derrick,
What about the overall pentecostal doctrine of the COGIC? What about “Pentecostalism” itself being the perfect breeding ground for this type of behavior? What about the “tithing” abuse? How many COGIC churches refuse to teach it?
Believe it or not the COGIC has more than just this story to stain their reputation.
Bro Lawrence D
The following is my church’s statement of faith. Tithing is taught in my church. It is used for the overall maintenance of the church and outreach. How is Pentecostalism a breeding ground for the actions this man committed? There have been men throughout history that have performed actions that were hideous and they profeesed to know God. A great number of these men did not ascribe to Pentecostalism. Every denomination(non denomination included) have cases where situations were either miscalculated or handled inappropriately. I am not making any excuses for this “preacher” butfor people to say that COGIC is demonic or this man paid a great deal of money to the Bishop in order to “climb” up the ladder is ridiculous. What do you believe in? Where do you worship? Is your pastor,overseer doctrinally sound? Are you always sound in your responses? I would never denounce an entire Christian denomination based off of what a few choose to do. If your father chose to be COGIC, did you ask him why he stayed? What was his response?
We believe the Bible to be the inspired and only infallible Word of God.
We believe that there is One God, eternally existent in Three Persons: God the Father, God the Son and
God the Holy Spirit.
We believe in the Blessed Hope, which is the rapture of the Church of God, which is in Christ, at His return.
We believe that the only means of being cleansed from sin is through repentance: faith in the precious Blood of Jesus Christ and the Gospel according to Romans 10:9.
We believe that regeneration by the Holy Ghost is absolutely essential for personal salvation.
We believe that the redemptive work of Christ on the cross provides healing for the human body in answer to believing in prayer.
We believe that the baptism in the Holy Ghost, according to Acts 2:4 is given to believers who ask for it.
We believe in the sanctifying power of the Holy Spirit, by Whose indwelling, the Christian is enabled to live a holy and separated life in this present world. Amen.
Derrick,
Is the pastor the head of your church?
Does anyone hold titles of authority that you can’t find in the scriptures?
Do women teach men?
Those who don’t get healed, is it because they didn’t have enough faith in the redemptive work of Christ on the cross?
How many people in your church including you, can recite the scriptures that provide backing for these beliefs?
Pentecostalism is the breeding ground for this behavior because it gives affirmation to certain people having different levels of spirituality that gives them authority over others. Unbiblical authority.
The pastor is the shepherd. He is the set man of the house. Women do not teach men. How can someone’s faith be measured by someone other than that person? We don’t know the mind of God so I cannot explin why some get healed and some don’t. We have the pastor,elders,missionaries. I believe all are mentioned in the Bible. I can’t speak for the number of people that can defend their beliefs but as for me, ALL my beliefs are based by the word of God. I don’t know of anyone(with a sound mind) that agrees with EVERY single thing that happens in their church but I know that overall, my church operates out of the written word and is effective. Be blessed.
Tithing is of the Levitical priesthood which was done away when the Lord brought in a new commandment {the new testament}(Heb.7:5 And truely they that are of the sons of Levi, who receive the office of the priesthood, HAVE A COMMANDMENT TO TAKE TITHES OF THE PEOPLE ACCORDING TO THE LAW, that is, of their brethren, though they come out of the loins of Abraham:)
There are alot of things that these churches do not teach and if you read your bible and stop mixing strong drink (meaning mixing the Word with books, tapes, and sermons of men) you will be amazed at how many things they ALL over look.
2John1:9 WHOEVER TRANGRESSES, AND ABIDES NOT IN THE DOCTRINE OF CHRIST, HAS NOT GOD. HE THAT ABIDES IN THE DOCTRINE OF CHIRST (the true church), HE HAS BOTH the Father and the Son.
Isaiah prophesies about the church……(sorry about the bandwith Melvin)
Hear, O heavens, and give ear, O earth: for the LORD HAS SPOKEN, I have nourished and brought up children, and they have rebelled against me. The ox knows his owner, and the ass his master’s crib: but Israel does not know, my people do not consider. AH SINFUL NATION, a people laden with iniquity, a seed of evildoers, children that are corrupters: they have forsaken the LORD, they have provoked the Holy One of Israel unto anger, THEY ARE GONE AWAY BACKWARD (the falling away).
Why should you be stricken any more? you will revolt more and more: THE WHOLE HEAD IS SICK, AND THE WHOLE HEART FAINT. FROM THE SOLE OF THE FOOT EVEN UNTO THE HEAD THERE IS NO SOUNDNESS IN IT (WORD); but wounds, and bruises, and putrifying sores: they have not been closed, neither bound up, neither mollified with ointment. Your country is desolate, your cities are burned with fire: your land, strangers devour it in your presence, and it is desolate, as overthrown by strangers.
And the daughter of Zion is left as a cottage in a vineyard, as a lodge in a garden of cucumbers, as a besieged city. Except the LORD of hosts had left unto us a VERY SMALL REMNANT, we should have been as Sodom, and we should have been like unto Gomorrah (he is still talking about the church). Hear the word of the LORD, you rulers (preachers)of Sodom; give ear unto the law of our God, you people of Gomorrah (the congregation). To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices unto me? said the LORD: I am full of the burnt offerings of rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of he goats. When you come to appear before me, who has required this at your hand, to tread my courts? Bring no more VAIN OBLATIONS; incense is an abomination unto me; THE NEW MOONS AND SABBATHS, THE CALLING OF ASSEMBLIES, I cannot away with; IT IS INIQUITY, EVEN THE SOLEMN MEETING. YOUR NEW MOONS AND YOUR APPOINTED FEASTS MY SOUL HATES: THEY ARE A TROUBLE UNTO ME; I AM WEARY TO BEAR THEM. And when YOU spread forth your hands, I WILL HIDE MY EYES FROM YOU: YES, WHEN YOU MAKE MANY PRAYERS, I WILL NOT HEAR: your hands are full of blood. Wash you, make you clean; put away the evil of your doings from before my eyes; cease to do evil; LEARN TO DO WELL; SEEK JUDGEMENT, RELIEVE THE OPPRESSED, JUDGE THE FATHERLESS, PLEAD FOR THE WIDOW. Come now, and let us reason together, SAID THE LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool. If YOU BE WILLING AND OBEDIENT, ye shall eat the good of the land:
But IF YOU REFUSE AND REBEL, YOU SHALL BE DEVOURED WITH THE SWORD: FOR THE MOUTH OF THE LORD HAS SPOKEN IT. HOW IS THE FAITHFUL CITY BECOME A HARLOT! {Prov. 7:6-10 For at the window of my house I looked through my casement,
And beheld among the simple ones, I discerned among the youths, a young man VOID OF UNDERSTANDING, Passing through the street near her corner; and he went the way to her house (CHURCH), In the twilight, in the evening, in the black and dark night:
And, behold, there met him a woman WITH THE ATTIRE OF AN HARLOT, and subtil of heart.} it was full of judgment; righteousness lodged in it; BUT NOW MURDERERS. YOUR silver is become dross, your wine mixed with water (watered down word): your princes are rebellious, and companions of thieves: EVERY ONE LOVES GIFTS, AND FOLLOWS AFTER REWARDS: they judge not the fatherless, neither does the cause of the widow come unto them.
THEREFORE SAID THE LORD, THE LORD OF HOSTS, THE MIGHTY ONE OF ISRAEL, AHHHH, I WILL EASE ME OF MY ADVERSARIES, AND AVENGE ME OF MINE ENEMIES (remember that anyone that is a friend of the world is THE ENEMY OF GOD): And I will turn my hand upon you, and purely purge away your dross, and take away all your tin: and I will restore your judges as at the first, and your counsellers as at the beginning (during the tribulation): afterward you shall be called, THE CITY OF RIGHTEOUSNESS, THE FAITHFUL CITY. ZION SHALL BE REDEEMED WITH JUDGMENT, and HER CONVERTS WITH RIGHTEOUSNESS. And THE DESTRUCTION OF THE TRANSGRESSORS {1 John3:4 WHOEVER COMMITS SIN TRANGRESSES ALSO THE LAW: for sin is the transgression of the law.} AND OF THE SINNERS SHALL BE TOGETHER, AND THEY THAT FORSAKE THE LORD SHALL BE CONSUMED (Heb. 12:29 For our God is a CONSUMING FIRE).
And so what if this is my opportunity to vent my frustrations, due to some negative experiences with the COGIC, and?
Remember, I said most of the COGIC (at least the ones I’ve experienced) ministers are jokes. I never claimed that all of them were.
Many of them are money grubbing thieves (especially those no good bishops), who pimp their people and the general public. I would never step foot into any of their churches, at least the ones in my jurisdiction.
COGIC at one time stood for something, but now this denomination has become a den of thieves, wickedly greedly and full of dead men’s bones.
A person would be a fool, proudly claiming such a moribund assembly…
seekerman,
in your initial statement, you stated that “most” COGIC pastors were jokes(you never stated that you were referencing the pastors that you personally encountered). With that being the case, I felt it was only appropriate to state that you were being judgemental. If you won’t step foot in COGIC church, that is your right but show me a “perfect” church. Every church has hypocrites,liars,adulterers,fornicators,gossipers,etc.. So no matter where you choose to worship, you will encounter someone that lives counter to what the Bible states is right. Stop putting all COGIC churches into one box. We have excellent pastors that are doctrinally sound, community oriented, mission minded and concerned about souls. Your bad experience(s) has tainted your ability to be objective.
Where was the COGIC during the Civil Rights movement, and all throughout the South, back in the day, when black folks didn’t have the right to vote, were segregated, oppressed, etc. I’ll tell you where-NO WHERE!
The COGIC as a collective corporate body, is a damnable joke. They’re nothing but a bunch of pseudo tongue talking, religious hypocrites, who fall easily within the WOF camp. Many of those ecclestiacal devils don’t believe in God, but rather their bank accounts.
Just because you know a sprinkling of good COGIC folks, and leaders, don’t mean that overall, the COGIC and its’ leadership, isn’t anything more than a pack of liars, turning their “houses of worship,” into a den of thieves.
If you’re so concerned about my attacks on this wretched denomination, then why don’t you and your ilk try and reform that denomination of iniquity, instead of trying to put me on blast, because I call it like I see it?
(MN: Seekerman, tone your rhetoric down some. The statements you make may indeed be true, but they are unsubstantiated. For instance, MLK preached at the COGIC Mason Temple in Memphis in 1968. Be careful about making sweeping statements. Or at least be as specific as possible. Sweeping general statements kill your credibility and make dialog difficult. They feel good but they don’t move a discussion forward. )
When it comes to the Civil Rights movement, and the COGIC not being involved, well-I’m only quoting what Carlton Pearson has said.
I’m familiar with King, and his speaking in a COGIC church, but again, that denomination, according to old heads in my family who were apart of that denomination, or other Pentecostal outfits, never got involved actively involved in the Civil Rights movement.
Their logic was that this movement was of this world, and that black folks primary concern was to get to heaven. Just ask any COGIC member, in their 50’s and above about this truth…
Having said that, I’m through with discussing the COGIC. I think my views are duly noted…
derrick…..your statement; “….show me a “perfect” church. Every church has hypocrites,liars,adulterers,fornicators,gossipers,etc. That is not true….The True church is perfect…we all have to reach perfection in order to make it to heaven. And those things that you listed are manifestations of the flesh of the false churches….those things show you that you are not getting the Word of God.
If we were not to be perfect then Jesus, Peter, Paul, James, etc. lied when they said these things: (And we know that Jesus was righteous, without spot, holy, the Son of God)
Jesus said in Matt.5 Be you therefore PERFECT, EVEN AS YOUR FATHER WHICH IS IN HEAVEN IS PERFECT (is Jesus or God the Father a hypocrite, liar, adulterer, fornicator, gossiper,etc.. ?????). (aren’t we to be as he is in this world????)
Paul in 2 Cor.13:11 said: Finally, brethren, farewell. BE PERFECT, be of good comfort, be of one mind, live in peace; and the God of love and peace shall be with you.
Col. 1:28 says: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; THAT WE MAY PRESENT EVERY MAN PERFECT IN CHRIST JESUS:
Heb. 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, LET US GO ON UNTO PERFECTION; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
HEB 12:23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of JUST MEN MADE PERFECT,
1PET.5:10 But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that you have suffered a while, MAKE YOU PERFECT, stablish, strengthen, settle you.
AND I CAN GIVE YOU MORE…….
Derrick, I think I have to side with Seekerman. I am sure that there are some within the COGIC camp that are saved and preaching the Gospel. Sadly though, the almost 10 years I spent in it, in retrospect, I think the most of the older guys who are dying/or dead where the ones who kept the holiness of God (albeit with some errors in doctrine). Once the older crowd died off in the late 90’s and early this decade a lot of the righteousness left with them as the WoF moved in to the forefront. I was a n armourbearer, I dealt with the finances on trips, I looked after other preachers when they visited. I was in the back with them during services, before and after. I saw those who made a play for the women and those who elevated themselves so that they could be glorified. I thank God that He has opened my eyes to the truth of the Gospel and His will for His people (preachers included).
When I got out to AZ I was supposed to specifically go to one COGIC church (pastor) in particular. I met him in SC when he preached at my church there. Then after I got there I couldn’t stay. Something was not right. He called me trying to find out why I wasn’t coming. He got upset when I answered MY phone with “What’s up?” He was even more irrate after I told him I wasn’t going back. I was being charged with disobedience. To this day when he sees me he doesn’t even look at me (he knows I am there). Sadly, this high-mindedness is typical across the board. I dealt with it firsthand. Sorry Derrick, I know there are ill people in every denom, but COGIC is a show nowadays and nothing more.
Hear me gentlemen this issue is not just a (COGIC) thing this is happing all over the place in every church and every denomination. Jesus said in (Matt 24: 4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you). Note what he said no man, because men throughout time have been deceiving others through false religious systems that they have created apart from the God. For one reason and one reason only to lead men to hell, this is the devils doing it is he that has deceived men from the beginning, because he is the fathers of lies. What we need to do is continue to pray for the church as a whole and stay close to the instructions of the scriptures. We also need to stand together against the workers of darkness that are destroying the church from within. These men have been planted by our adversary the devil to cause confusion in the church. I implore you brothers to put on the whole armor of God so that we can stand against the wiles (tricks) of the devil. I am a church of God In Christ Pastor and I will stand by the truth of God’s Word. What that means to me is this.
2Ti 3:16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
2Ti 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.
We must take a stand right now gentlemen, because many of these preachers do not understand what’s at stake here. The souls of humanity are at stake and these men only have their own personal agendas. I will confront these men when I cross their paths in the Spirit of the living God. I don’t really care about if I am liked or not, what I care about is stopping these men from preaching false doctrine and promoting these ungodly life styles. I am trying to address this issue by building up the men’s department in our local church area because I believe that these false preachers seek to make the men in the church powerless. These false preachers make the men powerless in the church by making their wife’s co-pastors to undermine the authority of the men. Once they have done this then they begin to preach submission to authority or what the bible calls the “traditions of men” where their words overrule the Word of God. They want complete control over men’s homes and families so they can spoil your goods
Continue to pray for the church.
Pastor Markette, you are correct when you say this is not a COGIC only problem. However, it is a definitely pentecostal/charismatic based. It began with the denial of 1. hermenuetical training, 2. true expositional preaching, and 3. an increase in “personal experience.” I do not deny that in regards to #1 many, many foul (non-pentecostal) men have destroyed once blessed seminaries. However, to deny the need for proper biblical tutelage is just as gross a sin. There are God-fearing seminaries that will not deny scripture. However, show me one that is pentecostal/charismatic that has not gone the WoF way. As far as #2 goes, topical w/ exposition is fine, but topical w/o exposition is how many preachers change the Word of the Lord. Lastly #3, I have seen hundreds of folk throughout the years dance, shout, scream, and speak in tongues for their deliverance, but leave out the same way. While I don’t deny that some experiences are true, everything must be tested. I am honestly tired of hearing people say “boy we had chuwch,” but return to their heathenistic ways shortly afterward.
Yes Pastor, you seem to be one of the few who has not bowed a knee to ba’al. Unfortunately, what started at Azusa Street seems to be nothing more than a mess that continually fed on forced-biblical blessings and extra-biblical activities. While I admire your stance to stay within your denom to right wrongs and extend your hand to other Christians to walk in Christ in similitude- I still believe that all branches of pentecostalism hold to a flawed organizational base.
You are right about that but, it just does not apply to one denomination…….ALL denominations do not see God as they are to see him. There is no fear of God in NONE of the churches. All they talk about is love, money, happiness, success, ruling the world, etc (all the good things). I have spoke with alot of people who say “my pastor speaks the word” and when I visit…….it is always the same thing….give a few verses or a chapter….then the preacher gives the congregation what his interpretation is. That is not the way it is supposed to be. They tell you….we fall down but we get up….the Lord says that if we abide in HIS WORD we shall never fall.
If you stick with the bible and what it says (which is the Word of God)….you will NEVER fall for these wolves in sheep’s clothing even the subtle ones that have been good at hiding their sins.
2 Peter3:2 clearly says: …..That you may BE MINDFUL OF THE WORDS WHICH WERE SPOKEN BEFORE BY THE HOLY PROPHETS, AND THE COMMANDMENT OF US THE APOSTLES of the Lord and Saviour:
And 1 Tim 6:14 says: That YOU KEEP THIS COMMANDMENT (not what they say is holy…ex. dresses only, attending church everytime the doors open, or no drinking, smoking, etc) WITHOUT SPOT (These are SPOTS in your feasts of love, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear:…Jude 1:12), UNREBUKEABLE UNTIL THE APPEARING our Lord Jesus Christ.
I don’t know about any of you…..but, if the Lord is going to judge me….I am not going to any man (preacher/ teacher) to find out what the Lord is going to judge me on…..I am going straight to the source (James 1:5 If any of you lack wisdom, LET HIM ASK OF GOD [not run to church, or ask your pastor], that gives to all men liberally [not he will give it to your pastor to preach for his next sermon], and upbraides not; and it shall be given him) I want to know from him (the Lord) what he says is good and exeptable. Satan is out to decieve…..he managed to fool 1/3 of the angels in heaven and Eve by twisting the word of God…..surely he can fool the unskilled/ unlearned {and I think the angels knew God better than we do}. Do not be decieved. His ministers are out there and no-one knows who his ministers are but the Lord. (remember the All Knowing?????)Christians don’t believe that anymore. They would rather go to a book store, take classes, or learn from men that call themselves “Men of God”, read their books and their tapes, study their words, anything except God’s words. This is a microwave society (we want it quick fast without having to put any work in ourselves…..unless we think we are called or will be appointed by man to be a pastor/teacher then we start eating up their words and not the Lord’s) and satan is taking full advantage of it. He is going to take many with him….more than will enter into heaven……will you blindly let him lead you to hell with him?
Keep this in mind if you will. We are called to be the light of the world (Matt 5:14, 16) and what that means is, the church is to bring light to a world that dwells in darkness. We are God’s light through Christ so that men can see are good works and glorfy God. We all know that light always dispels the hiding things of darkness. The true church is God’s insturment in this age to lead men to Christ, so please keep that in mind. Do not lose heart God is with us because Jesus said that the gates of hell won’t prevail against the church. The way that God has structured the church, with Christ being the head and pastors/ teachers being the undersheppards is God’s order. Yes some ungodly men are preaching false doctrine, but some of us are preaching the truth of God’s word and leading people to Christ. This just how it is now so stand your ground and don’t lose heart. The wheat and the tears must grow together and the reapers will seperate when God sends them.
Only the Word of God,
We are made perfect through Jesus Christ. We have the opportunity to be forgiven of all our sins and become a new creature through Him. The fact is that people have a hard time overcoming flesh and no matter how much perfection is taught or emphasized, someone will always display actions that are not Christ like. I agree with the Scriptures you quoted but I am talking about the modern day Christian church. A pastor can talk preach strict holiness, seperated lifestyle, modest apparel,etc… Someone will still “shack up”, commit adultery, wrestle with jealousy and envy, etc.. This does not mean perfection is not being taught but do the people have a heart to receive it? I said you will never find a perfect church(a church where everyone is living according to the Scriptures). We can quote scriptures all day but the fact is, everyone crying holy is not saved. That was my point.
Hey FDM/ONLY THE WORD OF GOD/whatever new name you try to deceive with today….since you like the Word so much (wink, wink) I’m still waiting to hear whether you think the Holy Spirit is a schizophrenic by ordaining teachers in the church, then telling us not to let them teach us??
Since you keep harping on about how men can’t teach you anything (and it shows), I’m wondering when you’re going to answer my questions??
If the Holy Spirit doesn’t want men to teach,why did He set teachers in the church??
If teachers were just temporary, where are the BIBLE verses that show we don’t need them any more??
If you agree that He set teachers in the church (I can cite AS MANY EVIDENCES AS YOU NEED,BTW) and yet you claim that we are not to be taught by men, aren’t you exactly what you rail against (a person who ignores the Word)??
(MN: OTWOG has been nattering on a bit. Lots of God from heaven pronouncements, and quotes. Lots of “of course we all know…” but not much in the way of substance; not much in the way of explanation. This is likely his/her last lengthy posting unless he/she comes up with actual substance. Extensive quotes of Scripture don’t count as substance. I love it when these guys tell us we should just read the Bible and then proceed to tell us what it means. )
All I am saying is this…….As “christians” you say you believe in the Words of the bible and you say they are true. But if you TRUELY believed that; then you too would believe as I do…..ONLY THE WORD OF GOD!!!! Anything else is deception………that is why in 1 John 4:4-6 it says: You are of God, little children, and have overcome them (false preachers/teachers): because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.
They are of the world (false preachers / teachers): therefore speak they of the world, and THE WORLD HEARS THEM.
WE ARE OF GOD: HE THAT KNOWS GOD HEARS US (who is us???…..2 Peter 3:2 That you may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour:) HE THAT IS NOT OF GOD HEARS NOT US. HEREBY KNOW WE THE SPIRIT OF TRUTH, and the spirit of error.
And now that you know that ALL these churches and their religions are of the world he also says: James 4:4 YOU ADULTERERS AND ADULTERESSES, KNOW YOU NOT THAT THE FRIENDSHIP OF THE WORLD IS ENMITY WITH GOD??????? WHOSOEVER THEREFORE WILL BE A FRIEND OF THE WORLD IS THE ENEMY OF GOD.
1John2:15-17 says: Love not THE WORLD, neither the things that are in the world. IF ANY MAN LOVE THE WORLD, THE LOVE OF THE FATHER IS NOT IN HIM. For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world. And the world passeS away, and the lust thereof: but he that does the will of God abides forever.
Col.2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through PHILOSOPHY AND VAIN DECEIT, AFTER THE TRADITION OF MEN, AFTER THE RUDIMENTS OF THE WORLD, and not after Christ.
Melvin your comment…..OTWOG has been nattering on a bit [the word of God is nattering on a bit????? you are going to have some explaining to do during Judgement for this one]. Lots of God from heaven pronouncements, and quotes {quotes??????}. Lots of “of course we all know…” but not much in the way of substance {What???? I guess Peter lied when he said: And account that the longsuffering of our Lord IS SALVATION; EVEN AS OUR BELOVED BROTHER PAUL ALSO ACCORDING TO THE WISDOM GIVEN HIM HAS WRITTEN UNTO YOU; AS ALSO IN ALL HIS EPISTLES,………};
(MN: And then he nattered on a whole lot more making his big finish with: )
HE THAT IS NOT OF GOD (that’s you Melvin; HEARS NOT US [Gal. Heb. Rom., 1&2 Thes., 1&2 Cor., Titus, James, 1&2 Tim., etc.] (that’s you Melvin). HEREBY KNOW WE THE SPIRIT OF TRUTH (me), and the spirit of error (you Melvin).
OTWOFG, (we gotta shorten your name- you can pick it), we are fully authorized to utilize teachers and preachers according to the Word of God.
Rom 10:14 But how are they to call on him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without someone preaching?15 And how are they to preach unless they are sent? As it is written, “How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the good news!”
I know and realize there are snakes in the grass. But that does not mean that we don’t go in the grass. We must be responsible like the Bereans in the book of Acts whom Paul commended for searching the scriptures to prove what Paul was saying.
That is scripture.
sorry jules, but if there are snakes in the grass, that’s some grass these tootsies won’t be tip-toeing through! well, not unless i gots a mongoose with me. but i know whatcha mean, lol :o)
Right-o Mrs. Mav! I’ll be sure to put away the hypo-albino cornsnake and Pueblo milk snake away if you ever get to come by the house for a visit.
And I will make sure the kids don’t pop out with them to scare you either
OTWOG, I applaud the fact that you reverence the Word of God. However, I believe you do yourself (and your testimony) a great disservice to say that you can not learn about the things of God from a teacher (who God sent and set).
A good example of the necessity of teachers is your response to derrick in regards to “being perfect”. I don’t know if you know or not, but you cited scriptures containing at least five variations or derivatives of the word perfect.
And none of these translations of the word “perfect” would mean that we in and of ourselves are complete, but only in Christ are we made perfect, or is being made perfect, or will be found in the state of perfection. And in most cases, the word literally means mature, or ethically prepared or equipped, or spiritually mature, or the state of spiritual maturity (you get the point).
But you would only know this if you were “taught” how to do a word study. And for that, you would need a teacher. It is not reasonable to insist that we can not be taught spiritual things by man. The bible is full of examples of teachers. Moses teaching Joshua, Samuel teaching David, and Jesus teaching the disciples, and Paul teaching Timothy and exhorting him to study.
On what basis are you making your assumption (or presumption) that we can not learn about spiritual matters from man? Help us to understand your perspective.
Sola Scriptura,
DOC
DOC for President!!!!
Bro, you’ve only made a few posts, and I like your style already…Can I call you “The Doctor”??? (LOL!!!) Excellent critique…Welcome, and keep it comin’!!!
Solus Christus,
R4C
Thank you for the welcome, R4C. To God be the glory.
I have been visiting and reading for at least a few months. I have wanted to join in for quite some time. I could not resist responding to OTWOG. Because I am one of those called to teach the Word of God, I just had to respond.
Like many of those who post here, I too am concerned about what is happening in the body of Christ and desire that we would come into the knowledge (read truth) of God.
I like DOC as a moniker for this forum because it speaks to what I would like to contribute. As a devoted student of Christ, I believe it is important to perpuate HIS doctrine, thus Sola Scriptura.
I look forward to participating in discussion with those who are like minded and I thank God for this forum and you all.
Sola Scriptura,
DOC
P.S. I appreciate your closing, too.
What’s Up DOC?? (sorry…….couldn’t help myself).
Welcome aboard the Rollercoaster of Righteousness. Keep your hands and arms inside the car at all times, and hold on tight.
LOL, thank you. I really appreciate the welcome and I look forward to sharing more, not only on the posts, but also about myself. I feel like I already know some of you from reading your posts for the last several months. I am just glad to be able to fellowship with the people of God (read true church).
Sola Scriptura,
DOC
WOW!!!! how could those women/men be so blind: ya you can add him to the EP ( earl pulk) headlines: but he takes the cake: i will pray for the women and men that were hurt by this false prophet
dm
atlanta,ga
The abusers and the abused women are all spoken of in 2 Timothy 3.
And some of the abused NEVER learn!
Someone will claim that a pimp like Sherman Allen was once a good man, that he was once a man of Gawd, that he said things that touched them, while scripture says:
He was always a pimp doing voodoo and so on and his sin found him out. The only good here is that perhaps Allen will be humiliated to true repentance if the Lord wills it to be so.
He’s violated the laws of God and man. The only sentence he deserves in prison is the fullest possible under man’s laws. He’s proven himself to be a menace to society. And he should have to work while in prison for his food and health care, rather than taxpayers footing the bill for the care of such a vile creature.
God will forgive him and save his soul if he repents, but he still must pay the price he’s made for himself with the justice system of government. If God had Paul to tell slaves they are free in Christ but still physical slaves, Allen can remain in prison, find freedom in Christ and still it would be good for his body to remain in a cell, just to ensure he’s not tempted to abuse another woman.
IC,
Given your first scripture references…what you are saying comes across as if the women deserved what they got :-/
Okay, so the women were blinded by who knows what as to why they associated with this man. Maybe they didn’t “learn” after seeing signs or having a gut feeling. But they still didn’t “deserve” what took place. No one really deserves to be victimized — no matter what their mental capacity is.
Do you have a frame of reference of abuse that could help clarify what you are saying?
Tweet, I appreciate your efforts to frequently challenge my statements when I comment here. However, can you show us where I said the statement “they deserved it”? I did not.
I say you are seeing words in my statements that clearly do not exists. I feel no compulsion to defend myself from accusations of words I never said.
The only time I use the statement “deserves” in that comment above is in regards to what I feel Sherman Allen deserves in the way of punishment under the laws of man, given his violation of them.
I said deserves in regards to the abuser and not the abused, but you claim I said something regarding the abused that I’ve never said. I never suggested anything was deserved of the abused. Perhaps I deserve better than someone accusing me of things I never said?
I didn’t write it. The Lord wills who will come to know the truth.
I didn’t write that either.
You stated:
Actually, we know very well what they were blinded by. Scripture is clear, whether we want to admit it or not.
These women allowed the burden of sin to consume them, rather than allowing Christ alone to remove it. They also allowed various passions to get the best of them. Again, I didn’t write that statement above, but you may accuse me of what you wish, as is often the case.
IC…
You are such an interesting fellow. First, you can save your sarcasm concerning appreciating my challenge to your comments. I am not flattered nor impressed. Absolutely no need to think what I wrote was a “challenge” or an “accusation,” but if you feel that way — whatever floats your boat. Why so defensive? I rarely see that same tone/response taken with others who respond to your comments. Interesting indeed…
And sir, if you read my comment, I did not write that you “said” they deserved it. I don’t think my comment saying that is how it is coming across is so outlandish, but clearly you do. To each his own I guess….
So let me get this straight, am I not to respond to your comments in the future? Dude, you are way too tense when it comes to my comments…I’m just a person typing at a keyboard that you have never met. It’s really not that serious…whether you like what I say or not.
How about if the Pastor is not saved he cannot bring a congregation to salvation. Therefore they were being led away anyway. With that in mind…..Prov. 13:21 says: EVIL PURSUES SINNERS: but to the righteous good shall be repayed.
FDM/ONLY THE WORD OF GOD/WHATEVER NAME YOU USE TOMORROW……….if you would actually spend some time studying that Bible,you might see that it’s THE GOSPEL that is the power of God unto salvation (Rom 1:16, 1 Cor 15:1, 2 Cor 4:4, Eph 3:6, etc etc).
The condition of the MAN preaching the Gospel is irrelevant. The Gospel’s power is NOT derived from the salvation or holiness of the one preaching it. Neither is the Gospel’s power to save diminished one iota because of the condition of the preacher.
Are you a Roman Catholic?? Because what you just said is precisely what THEY teach.
Men can even preach the Gospel for SPITE or ENVY (which is sin) instead of for souls and men will be saved by the Gospel’s power. It can even be preached in PRETENCE (Greek,PRETENDED cause, FALSELY), and the Gospel STILL has the power to save.
Phl 1:12 But I would ye should understand, brethren, that the things [which happened] unto me have fallen out rather unto the furtherance of the gospel;
Phl 1:13 So that my bonds in Christ are manifest in all the palace, and in all other [places];
Phl 1:14 And many of the brethren in the Lord, waxing confident by my bonds, are much more bold to speak the word without fear.
Phl 1:15 Some indeed preach Christ even of envy and strife; and some also of good will:
Phl 1:16 The one preach Christ of contention, not sincerely, supposing to add affliction to my bonds:
Phl 1:17 But the other of love, knowing that I am set for the defence of the gospel.
Phl 1:18 What then? notwithstanding, every way, whether in PRETENCE, or in truth, Christ is preached; and I therein do rejoice, yea, and will rejoice.
Why did Paul rejoice when he just admitted that some are preaching the Gospel in PRETENCE (falsely)?? Because the power of the Gospel to save has NOTHING to do with the state of the preacher. The GOSPEL is the ONLY power of God, and man can neither add to nor diminish it.
This word translated “pretence” from the Greek is also used in these verses, ALL of which mean to do something FALSELY, just for show.
Mar 12:38 And he said unto them in his doctrine, Beware of the scribes, which love to go in long clothing, and [love] salutations in the marketplaces,
Mar 12:39 And the chief seats in the synagogues, and the uppermost rooms at feasts:
Mar 12:40 Which devour widows’ houses, and for a PRETENCE make long prayers: these shall receive greater damnation.
Mat 23:14 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows’ houses, and for a PRETENCE make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation.
So, the Truth is unassailably clear……..it is NOT the condition of the preacher that determines the power of the Gospel to save, it is the Word itself.
Paul rejoiced when the Gospel was preached by men in outright sin (envy, jealousy, or in an attempt to hurt him rather than win souls) or even when it was preached FALSELY and just for show.
Now, since you have come here contending repeatedly that we are all off base doctrinally (though you have never bothered to refute, just accuse), and that we err because we actually utilize the gift of teaching that God placed within men in the church, I’m interested to see your reaction.
1) You are clearly in error. Your error was spawned with only the Bible (not men’s teaching), yet you claimed that sticking solely with the Bible precludes error.
2) Clearly, you did not KNOW you were in error. By utilizing nothing but the Bible (your preferred KJV too) I……..A MAN………A TEACHER…….just taught you something and refuted your error.
I look forward to your response. How you do so will tell us all we need to know about YOUR spiritual state.
Tweet,
You weren’t addressing me so forgive my intrusion. I think that we should be careful with the “victim” tag. Honestly the only women who were victims in this case were the little girls whos mothers brought them to this fool for “discipline” or the one who he attacked from behind and violated. She reported it. Every other grown woman was just as responsible for their victimization as this perpetrator.
If my son decides to be a gangster instead of working for a living (like me) and he is shot, I don’t consider him a “victim” of street violence. That’s using the term too loosely. If I sleep around on my wife and I get AIDS, I’m not a victim of the virus. Now is my wife gets it from me, then she is a victim. Do you see what I’m getting at? Every woman who did not respond to this man with the police or a chair across the head, I can’t honestly consider a victim in the truest sense of the word.
Let me know what you think.
Thanks for the response…I hear you, but don’t necessarily agree. I do agree that victim is used (and some times incorrectly) in many contexts. But if someone suffers hurt or harm at the hands of another (which is one of the definitions of a victim), how do we as a society determine them as being a victim or not? Are victims only those people who are sitting minding their own business, doing right, going to school, working, etc. and then something bad happens to them at the hands of another?
For example…a young man recently was shot in the face and died after he threw a snowball in a man’s face. Is the young man a victim although he was the one who by all accounts initiated the chain of events?
As BLD said himself, forgive the intrusion into the response to him.
Luke 6:39-40
The bottom line is this. When following a blind man, you stand to end up in hell with them. So best to avoid blind deceivers.
Those involved with Allen have an opportunity now to turn towards a walk with Christ in truth. Perhaps God will have them all find truth or perhaps some are not given to His Son. All as the Lord wills. Allen was the deceiver and was exposed. He was all of 2 Corinthians 11:13-15 and will remain such unless he repents, perhaps God will grant him repentance.
Tweet,
I think the question is more “Of whom or what was the young man a victim?” The possible answers are:
1. The man who shot him. My vote is no.
2. His own folly. Me and Proverbs say yes.
3. Societies promotion of violence as a means to handle all grievances. Psychological mumbo jumbo if you ask me.
The young man simply did not take into full account the possible reactions from his deed. He is therefore personally responsible for the outcome although not for the reaction of the man who shot him. That’s that man’s own responsibility.
Blame in these cases is never one sided. There’s usually enough to go around.
Undeserved harm or suffering seems to me to underscore the true essence of what constitutes a victim. This “soft” society that we live in has reduced everyone of us to a victim on some level. I was whooped as a child and society would consider me a victim of child abuse. But I would consider it a blessing because I know the results and God commanded it. Do you see what I mean?
Some of the ladies were victims but not all. That’s my point. I’m splitting hairs intentionally because I reject modern day characterizations of many things.
Fair enough…
Where’s the proof that this man engaged in Voodoo.
(MN: The church he pastored was a spiritualist church [i.e. vooddo, Santaria, etc]. The lady who lived with him attested to the claim. )
Wow. That’s the most disturbing thing I’ve read in a long time, Melvin. This man (if we can call him that) appears to be demon possessed. COGIC–as well as every fellow “minister” who promoted him and overlooked his obvious depravity will be held accountable.
He will pay the price for fooling God’s sheep. If I were God I would cast him down to hell now, but of course I’m not God. The other preachers will also have to pay because they new and did not cast him out. They will have to stand before God and tell him why they did not condem him for his actions. Don’ think they will get away with it. Most of there churches may crumble, for not doing what God called them to do. To protect his sheep. Shame on them.
Dear Melvin,
You said:“……we should study the Word for ourselves so we can spot them and see when leadership is failing to do its job.”
Keep saying it until you turn blue in the face, because truer words have never been spoken!
Peace
Yes, indeed……….
As if things couldn’t get any worse. I’ve heard of the pastors who molested boys and girls. I know a few who have been attacked by pastors. I’ve heard of false teachings, spiritual laughter, even the documentary called Marjo. But this, I feel, is a new level of bewilderment. How a man who’s credentials is that of basically the antichrist’s can walk into one of the most stringent and conservative denominations in this country is beyond me. In all of their holiness and spirituality, a virtual reprobate minded individual enjoyed the company of not only his leaders, but other prominent preachers such as Jakes. In all of this getting a word from God and God speaking directly to these people, how could this have happened? When will people learn that a pastor is a servant of God just like the rest of us, but just with more responsibility? That article revealed so much. I think every young women should be taught about discerning the male leaders in church. Young vulnerable women look up to men. Older women too. And many males in leadership fall into the trap of taking advantage of tat vulnerability and then hide behind the cloak of “annointing.” The Catholics and the Methodists had their turn 5 years ago. Get ready for the veil to be lifted from the black churches. It’s been a long time coming.
Many of those preachers aren’t spiritually astute at all. Most of those COGIC ministers, and leaders, are all about the money, and most probably fake the tongues they speak. With them, they nothing more than Elmer Gantry types, or Marjoe types.
(MN: Your rhetoric…tone it back. )
Melvin, is it me or have false teachers been exposed at an astonishing rate lately? Could this be what they mean by a move of God (she says sarcastically but seriously)?
Sound doctrine==>good deeds, maturity
Bad doctrine==>worthless for any good deed, sheeple
Thank you Melvin. After reading your articles and the healthy church book, I am slowly getting the point. Tell me if my calculations are off.
Sound Doctrine may need to be defined better, as one can have all of the correct facts regarding sound doctrine and yet still become like the second equation