As you know, T. Dexter is expanding his world. He’s a sometimes co-host on the Dr. Phil show. You know doctor Phil. He’s the the secular psychologist who got his start with that great New Age Priestess Oprah Winfrey.
The only trouble is that Phil, like Oprah shows no inclination toward Christian standards and philosophy. His views and solutions are deeply influenced by the world, not the Bible. His standards are as fluid as the sand in the parable of the man who failed to build his house on the rock.
T. Dexter has been getting softer and softer on homosexuality. No, I don’t mean that he is no longer advocating stoning them. He never did that and certainly never should have. Rather, he is starting to make noises that seem to equate homosexuality to lying, taking a pencil home from the office, or being not so nice to your wife.
In one interview, T. Dexter answers a question about homosexulity with one of his patented non-answers. And in doing so, erases any differentiation between sodomy and peeking at your opponent’s letter tiles during a game of Scrabble.
Okay, so he doesn’t go quite that far. But it is interesting to see him move the standard down a little here and a little there. Click here for the full interview. It’s about a year old but warrants listening to again. Here’s a transcript of the relevant portion of the interview.
Jakes: You know something, I don’t know anybody of any faith who can say that they have no sin in their lives. Whether it’s homosexuality or lying on your income tax or speaking rudely to somebody at a window. What we call sin may differ from person to person, but who amongst us can say that they have no sin? Jesus said that. And he said he that is without fault among you let him cast the first stone. I’m certainly not casting any particular stones at any particular group of people. All of us have sinned and come short of the glory of God, but the question was about hell. And when it comes down to hell, that’s an issue that I believe in a way of salvation. I believe that Jesus is the way the truth and the life. That no man comes unto the Father saved but by him. But I’m not so dogmatic in my views, that I’m willing to condemn anybody and send them to hell, I leave that up to God.
Like Paula White (his mentee by the way), T. Dexter is apparently using Dr. Phil to move out of the religious world and make yet another foray into the secular world. Unfortunately, he doesn’t appear to have any intention of attempting to bring a Chirstian (or even a religious) standard into that world.
Here’s what Dr. Phil says about homosexuality:
Homosexuality is not a learned behavior. A sexual orientation is inherited; you are wired that way. Certainly some people will experiment with a gay lifestyle, and a gay person might experiment with a heterosexual one. If she is really gay, she will find a place in that life and in that community. The important thing is that you just love her through that. What difference does it make if she is gay? Accept her, support her and do not be judgmental. It is difficult enough for her to live openly and honestly in this society; don’t put your judgment on top of that. [Dr. Phil’s Site]
Now, the reason I bring this up is because not only is T. Dexter the mentor of John K. Jenkins, the pastor of First Baptist Church of Glenarden, he is also the main speaker at the First Baptist Church of Glenarden/Greater Mt. Calvary Holy Church revival this year. And he has been for years in the past. (MN: Just as a side note, has anyone clearly defined just what is to be revived during the three day period? )
T. Dexter, a man who isn’t willing to admit to being a Oneness preacher, but is too wimpy to clearly affirm a Trinitarian position; a man who is willing to write off homosexuality as pretty much the same as speaking rudely to a teller at a bank window.
But the problem with that “It’s All Sin” approach, is that God differentiates between sins. Not all sins require stoning. Murder, homosexuality, idolatry, and false prophesying do. Yet according to T. Dexter, we are not to judge [”I’m certainly not casting any stones at any particular group of people.”
Am I saying that homosexuals should be stoned? Certainly not. But I will maintain that homosexuality should be clearly and definitely difined as sinful, and clearly and definitely characterized as more serious than those sins that didn’t carry a death penalty in the Old Testament.
This fellow is going to be the main attraction at the revival next week (Jan 3 or so). And you have to wonder about the kind of man who, when he should be feeding those whose care he has been charged with, is instead bringing in men of the character of T. Dexter.
T. Dexter is a performer and a man who appears to be more interested in his commercial ventures (selling books, snagging high paying speaking engagements, making movies) than he does in deciding and defining what he believes about God.
John, in keeping with most of the pimps out there, has tied his wagon to T. Dexter, one of the alpha pimps; not because it would aid him in his ability to feed the sheep, but because he gets to learn more methods for fleecing them without their even realizing it. And he has been learning well. If you listen to the “You Can’t Teach Yourself” section of John’s Sept 23, 2007 Communion sermon, he berates the sheep and the sheep thank him for it. How screwed up is that?
And now, during the first week in January, John is going to berate and shear the sheep some more.
At this point, I’m planning on being out there at least one night of the three nights to pass out more of the tracts I distributed last year. If any of you want to join me, I would more than appreciate the company. Remember, it’s at the DC convention center. The entrance (public property) is right at the head of the Metro escalator. I’ll probably get there somewher around 6:00. I’ll be the only six foot five inch tall Black guy wearing the Kevlar body armor.
Mel and all Pulpit-Pimp Faithful,
First of all, a belated Merry Christmas to all!!! Having guests come from out of town and playing with the kids hours upon end can keep a brother quite busy, so I haven’t had a chance to really post in a little bit. Once again, T.D. (Trouble Doctrine) Snakes leaves no surprise as to where his allegiance is. I ran across him on one of the “christian” tv networks straight up butchering the story of the birth of Christ. He took the full focus away from the advent and it’s purpose and made it into a soap opera featuring the saga of Mary and Joseph’s relationship. You know, the fact that she was with child before they were married and such, and how she felt, how Joseph felt. As interesting as all of that might be, it pales in comparison to the glorius birth of our Lord and what it means to all of us today. How typical. I guess his Easter sermon will involve how difficult it was for Roman soldiers to clean their whips in that day, and how they must have felt and how difficult it was to leave their wives on the night of the crucifixion. Then, instead of calling it the sin that it really is, he’ll probably ask everyone who has struggled with the “brokenness” of homosexuality to come to the altar so that they can be “healed”, while making them completely comfortable with thier lifestyle. Gimme a break. Keep up the good work Mel. I didn’t even know Snakes was working with Dr. Feel (good about yourself so you don’t have to change) Mcgraw. I guess birds of a feather…
(MN: R4C, you did that whip thing way too well. Are you sure you’re not a T. Dexter ringer practicing his stuff on us? )
BTW, what was that thing that TD brought about a couple of years back, ummm “HEmotions”. This is really making me believe that he is trying his best to make men effeminate.
Noel jones…has a site where you can talk about…ANYTHING…..called “Noel Jones Uncensored”.
http://www.noeljones-uncensored.com/portal.html
(MN: I LOVE capitalism!!! I went out to the site. There is a four dollar a month charge and the tease to convince me to sign up sounds like a porn appeal. Stuff like:
But it could just be me. )
To MN:
Who is this jagoff, Noel Jones?
Scroll down to the “J’s” before you accuse me of “swearing.
http://pittsburgh.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?site=http://www.pittsburghese.com
You know, Mr. Jones, if this keeps up, I’m gittin’ my AR-15 outta cosmoline!
I guess he is not that much different than his sister Grace after all. The funny one is “Gospel Girls” what’s with that? Actually, the last button that says”Bishops teaching on preaching.” I thought it was more needful to preach on Jesus’ teachings. But then again, maybe that’s just me.
Julian, that’s really crass. You would have to basically denounce every seminary in America if you want to say something about that. It’s called hermeneutics. I mean c’mon man! It’s teaching you how to preach on Jesus…dude you are taking it too far. Any fool would know that they are not making preaching a “god” to worship…that comment did not come from a Godly mindset…at all….dang…c’mon man
Dan, you think I am crass lol? Hermeneutics- the study of the interpretation of religious texts. Homiletics- the study of the analysis, classification, preparation, compilation and delivery of sermons.
I don’t have a problem with homiletics- I have a problem when homiletics are more important than the truth of the Gospel. I have a problem when homiletics is the focus of the message rather than the content and you know pentecostal churches are notorius for these types of sermons. As for Noel Jones, look at the website. In fact, here’s a piece for you:
Registration
For a limited time get a FREE 30 DAY GUEST PASS just by signing up. You get ALL ACCESS to Noel Jones Uncensored for 30 days with no obligation. At the end of 30 days you’ll have the option to continue your subscription at a low monthly cost of only $4. But for now, just fill out the form below and get INSTANT NO HOLDS BAR access to Noel Jones Uncensored! All fields marked with an red arrow are required.
Let me ask you this, is it right Jones to be promote himself as if he were a star of the world? With the way he promotes himself, do you think that he would do justice to the Gospel? Do you think that he will truly put the “way to preach” in the right frame? Will it be an honorable, God- glorifying, expoisiton of scripture? Or do you think it will be along the lines of when to sing, or when to raise your voice an octive? Tell you what Dan, you pay the 4 bucks after your 30 day trial, me, I am getting a happy meal from Micky D’s. What can be learned from him that cannot be learned from a real pastor? Man, go on and get your “Love Jones” from this man. I’ll stick to the Bible.
Dan,Noel would have to KNOW hermeneutics to instruct others in hermeneutics. Have you listened to his sermons??
Mel,don’t forget about Noel Jones’ 1-900 number.
“Hey there………..all alone tonight?? Why not join in with Noel Jones on the HOTline?? Dozens of WILLING Christian counselors standing by right now. Just tell them where it HUUUUUUURTS. Noel knows how to rub the anointing oil right where you NEEEEED it.
Call 1-900 LAY HANDS ON ME. That’s 1-900 LAY HANDS ON ME. Only $4.99 a minute. Jesus said He wanted us either hot or cold.You’ve tried cold………let Noel get you HOT.
(MN: Gary, I must say you take the concept of being one sick puppy to a whole next level. Thanks!!! You make the site a fun place to work. )
AWWWWW………..thanks Mel. I think.
Actually Mr. McGraw first appeared on Day Star with the false “lambs” last year. His wife introduced her new book at that time. Phil claims to have some spirtual background. (whatever that means) I am not surprised about any of this because like the bible says: “they are of the world therefore the world hears them”
ready4change: Why do you say that about Dr. Phil? While I don’t watch his show regularly, the times I have heard him he has often taken people to task about their bad behavior and told them quite bluntly that they need to change. So I don’t think your comment is fair. Also, he has a secular show and I believe his objective is to try and help all of the people that listen to him to become better people regardless of their religious persuasion.
And, did you really need to hear the story of the birth of Christ again? If so, you can read it in your Bible. I heard the message by bishop Jakes that you referenced, and I actually enjoyed it. As I recall, the point was that God is with us in what may seem to us to be our darkest hours which many time immediately precede our greatest blessings (hence the highlighting of the difficult circumstances experienced by Mary and Joseph). What is unscriptual about that?
(MN: It wasn’t Biblical. It was theatrics that involved a Bible verse. The birth of Christ didn’t involve dark hours and difficult experiences. Joseph and Mary weren’t homeless, they weren’t especially poor and they weren’t in some dark hour. God doesn’t automatically give us some dark hour before a great blessing. A dark hour may simply be a dark hour because God has decreed it. Does the Norht Korean Christian have a dark hour and then they get sent to South Korea? No. They have a dark hour and then they’re killed. Don’t you realize that they family stayed in Bethlehem and moved into a house shortly after the birth? (Matt 2:11, 16) Again, Joseph and Mary were not homeless when they came to Bethlehem. The baby was simply born at a time that was very inconvenient for them.
Again, referring to something in the Bible doesn’t mean the preaching is Biblical. John Jenkins’ incredible distortion of Acts 2:around 40 is a perfect example of that. He USED the text to promote the idea of mega-churches and to deny the concept of the saint learning apart from the pastor. And none of that is biblical.
The crap the Houston Hustler turned out about the five smooth stones was not biblical. It simply referred to something in the Bible. )
Don’t you realize that being pregnant before you
are married by someone other than your husband could possibly be a difficult time — even if you know that is is of God? (MN: Perhaps Mary felt like she had a lot of ’splainin’ to do to the tongue waggers around her. But that isn’t a dark hour. And I doubt that is what Jakes was referring to in citing the Christmas story. Additionally, the issue there was one of obedience, not the dark hour. Again, people like Jakes take a segment of Scripture, twist it to say what they want it to say, and then push their message rather than God’s message. ) Or how about being engaged to someone that is pregnant with someone else’s baby and they tell you that “God” did it? Doesn’t sound like sunshine and roses to me. (MN: Same as previous comment. The idea is one of faith in what God has told me, not the dark hours before the glory of the Lord appears. As far as we can tell, there was pretty much not glory other than God reassuring Joseph when he found out she was pregnant, the smelly shepherds coming around after the birth to testify about what the angels told them, and the later appearance by the magi [however many of them there may have been] a good while later. Other than that, the Bible doesn’t reveal that Joe got any kind of indication of the glory that lived with them. And I’m sure the gossip continued even after they moved back to Nazareth. In other words, Joseph may have lived under a cloud his entire life! That, bucko, is faith. )
And I never said that it was “automatic” that God gave us dark/difficult times before a blessing. But, it seems to me that Job, Daniel, Joseph, and the 3 Hebrew boys could all testify to the fact that it does sometimes happen that way. And I’m grateful to God that I can also attest to the same. (MN: No, you never used the words “it’s automatic that…” But the preachers you cite often say “It’s dark now…BUT YOUR BREATHROUGH IS COMING. They present the circumstances as though a change will take place - usually if you give them money, buy their products, or jump around and shout like a maniac. All such claims are bogus. God will work as God will work. Period. )
And, of course, simply referring to something in the Bible doesn’t make a particular teaching biblical nor the person referring to it 100% doctrinally sound. (MN: But how many people defend these jokers as “biblical” based on the fact that they preach from the Bible. Read a couple of defenses of John K. Jenkins. Throughout you will see such phrases as “He preaches the Bible” or “He’s a very biblical preacher” or even “He really breaks down the Bible for us.” But in fact, he spends his time telling you what he wants you to hear and twists the Scriptures to make them say what he wants them to say. Of course, the twisting will be to various degrees depending on what similarity there is between what he is saying and what the Scriptures are actually saying. )
Melvin,
Many of your comments seem to agree with my points.
However, it seems that you want to disagree with me on what a “dark hour” is or is not (why, I don’t know) but perhaps we can agree and call Mary’s out of wedlock pregnancy a difficult situation that did try her faith and trust in God. And, of course, “bucko” that is faith. And the real “idea” (as you say, is for us to have faith in what God has told us and who He is in the difficult/dark times of our lives. The two are not mutually exclusive. (MN: Melvin agrees [ a little righter lingo there] )
And I didn’t cite any “preachers” who make those bogus blanket “breakthrough” claims — I only commented on the message in question. by Bishop Jakes. I find those ad nauseum types of messages to probably be as tiresome as you do (as well as extremely dangerous and distracting to those that seem to thrive off of them).
And you are right about those that defend many of the preachers that you reference here on your site that simply manipulate the Word of God and God’s people for heir own gain. I often wonder about some of their doctrines and their motivations for preaching them. I can only hope that at least some of them are “honestly” in error and really believe the things that they preach as opposed to purposely exploiting God’s people. I hope.
(MN: My apologies for coming back a little strong. )
Apologies accepted, of course.
CiCIs Endless pizza and salad buffet for only $4.99.
Kyle
Kyle,
Are you hungry and soliciting an offerring for your meal? If so, what is the promised return should one sow such a “seed”? 30, 60, 100 fold? Please be specific on the conditions required for each return.
CiCi,
I was just messing with you because of your name.
http://www.cicispizza.com/Default_flash.asp
Kyle
OOOOOOOoooooo……….are you THAT CiCi??
If so……….I love you. You got me through college.
LOL…Kyle, I know…and I was doing the same with you.
No, I’m not that CiCi….although Pizza is one of my favorite foods!!!
I was at CiCi’s for dinner last night…
bucko?
(MN: bucko. )
CiCi, a couple of things leaped out at me as I read your post. If I may………
Dr Phil teaches and promotes that which is in direct contradiction to the Bible. That’s OK,because (unlike Jakes) he doesn’t claim to be a minister. However, what he promotes is the world’s impotent approach to the heart of man.
Dr Phil telling an unrepentant sinner to change and be a good boy is about as effective as having him stand in front of a cage at the zoo and telling a leopard to change its spots. Man’s problem is not his behavior, it’s his degenerate and sinful heart.
Therefore to recommend behavior modification therapies in the absence of regeneration is an exercise doomed to failure. Breaking a habit is not the same as making someone a New Creation…….the sin just goes on and manifests elsewhere.
For Jakes to yoke himself with what amounts to little more than shamanism is bad enough in itself.Jesus didn’t come to build our self-esteem or teach us to break our bad habits,He came to save us from the wrath of the Holy One upon our sins and Create in us a New Heart, which then frees us from the bondage of our sin. The new heart and the indwelling Holy Spirit are the only means of actual change, not pop psycho-babble.
This is in fact the promotion of a false Gospel, completely antithetical to Christ and His Word. Jakes is up to his eyeballs in it. His silly sermonettes, his denial of Christ as the Only Way to God, his denial of the historic Trinity, his referrals to Christ as a “product” in his merchandising of the Savior, and his promotion of the same sort of psycho-babble that McGraw promotes make Jakes a danger to the unlearned.
Jakes has nothing more to offer than McGraw………and that’s pretty pathetic.
Gary,
I appreciate your comments and I agree with many of them. However, as I said, Dr. Phil makes no religious claims and operates from a secular platform.
And no, behavior modification therapy does not make anyone a New Creation — only Jesus Christ does that — but it has been proven effective in changing behaviors which is what I believe Dr. Phil is attempting to do. I never heard him claim to be a preacher of the gospel.
I think that we all agree that only God can change a person’s heart. However, many people do need help in changing their destructive behaviors after they have decided to do so (sounds like repentance in its literal sense to me) whether or not they have decided to accept Christ in their lives or not. And sense we all have to live in this world together, I’m grateful for any help that they can get
Especially if it helps the rest of us live a “quiet and peaceable” life.
But, of course the ultimate change comes through Christ — although if you look closely at the lives of many of us who claim Him, you might wonder about that , too. But, that’s another discussion alogether….:-)
I agree CiCi,and I said precisely that Dr Phil doesn’t claim to be a minister, and therefore I don’t expect him to be Biblically consistent in his approach.
However, TD Jokes DOES claim to be a minister, and the point I was trying make is that a minister is commanded not to be unequally yoked with unbelievers, and certainly is not to endorse the unBiblical and futile methodology of the unbeliever.
Jakes does both………we let the world judge its own (McGraw). But we are commanded to judge those who claim to be within the church on their doctrine, and Jakes fails on multiple levels.
CiCi,
First let me say that I really appreciate your passion for those affected by the deadly AIDS epidemic and your sincere desire to assist them. I can readily ascertain the genuineness in your posts. Secondly, forgive me for not responding to your post earlier. By the time I got around to reading the site again, it seems like the issues you had were cleared up (thanks Mel and GaryV). For that reason, I”ll try to be brief in my response to you.
Concerning Dr. Feel Good, you have to consider his associations. I’m sure you’ve already read the post on this very site about the priestess Oprah Winfrey. Consider that information and realize that this is a person that Dr. Feel associates with as well. If you’ll look closely, you’ll see that MOST people think that there’s really nothing wrong with what either he nor Oprah does. But remember, that’s really where the deception lies.
You can certainly get people to think that what they are being given is “sound advice” or that they are doing some type of good by suggesting they change their behavior, but ultimately, as has been adressed in the comments already, it does nothing to benefit the individual in the long run. It’s the equivalent of putting a bandaid on a gunshot wound. None of these talk shows will really do something contrary to what gets them the ratings they need. They do WHAT WORKS. If it’s having a show giving pop-psychology pseudo advice, they’ll do it. If it’s giving away free stuff, they’ll do it, because it’s what the people want. Which leads us directly to the antics of T.D.
It’s no wonder that he would find it common to associate with the likes of Dr. Feel and the priestess (as he has appeared on her show before), because the bulk of his messages contain exactly what they propagate—pop psychology and a distortion of what constitutes a real change, which is a true relationship with Jesus Christ. Why? Because it’s what works for people and it’s what they want.
Understand, my grievance is not so much with Dr. Feel, as he does not profess Christ, but it is with T.D., as he claims to do so. It has been my experience that in most cases it is necessary to judge a preacher not by a single message alone, but by the body of work that he produces over the course of time. I’ve been following Snakes for quite some time, and I’ve heard enough messages to know that his doctrine and content is fraudulent at best.
I don’t know how many times I’ve been told to “get ready, get ready, get ready for a better house, a better car, a new dimension, a greater blessing” and so many other things, only to come up empty because I didn’t realize that contrary to what these so called preachers tell you, it’s not always “your time”. The impact that T.D has had on so many preachers is impossible to measure, but you can see his imprint on many of the prosperity preachers you run into. If he was talking about the story of Mary and Joseph, I guarantee you he was playing upon an emotion for a different result.
While I do understand alluding to certain situations that a biblical character may have gone through to illustrate a point, I just don’t believe more time should be spent on that than the real object of importance, which is Christ Himself. The only way you could get a true picture and idea of why Jakes does this is by looking at what type of preacher he is and how his sermons naturally flow. Remember, this is the guy that took one miracle that Jesus did (the healing of the infirmed woman) and transformed it into a major confusion…excuse me, conference called “Woman thou art Loosed”, which subsequently led to the mega-mess…errrr…fest, that we see today.
Just like Noel Jones, he is a master of the silky smooth word game, and uses the charm and oratory ability to a degree that people will believe what he says even though it may have no real depth of content or relevance. More is to be considered when you take a walk through the pages of T.D’s various websites. Here’s the short bio listed on one of his pages:
Wasn’t that short bio just dandy? Oh, but wait…Could you show me where this bio exalts Christ? Where does it give God thanks? Where is the humility and the acknowledgement that it was of the Lord’s mercy that this was done? C’mon, I know it’s in there somewhere, isn’t it? Okay, maybe we couldn’t find it there, but surely we can find something that gives glory to our King in this SEVEN PAGE LONG bio that he provides in another page:
http://www.thepottershouse.org/_downloads/TDJ%20Biography%200507.pdf
I’m not saying that all of the works that are being done are for naught, but show me ONE place in this bio that T.D. doesn’t beat his chest about his accomplishments. When you show it to me, give me a specific statement, phrase or paragraph and how you believe it relates. Furthermore, clarify for me how the mentioning of these things address the true dilemma that every man, woman, boy and girl is faced with, and the true remedy for it—sin and a Savior.
In addition, if you check the doctrinal statement on the church web page, you will find that scriptural references for the beliefs are completely absent. I seem to recall that there used to be some there. I suppose the removal of scriptures gives him yet another chance to tap dance around the hard line questions that he would get about his doctrinal stance, because after all, if you don’t use scripture at all, you don’t have to defend what is says, now do you? Throw in the fact that T.D. started off in the heresy of ONENESS THEOLOGY, and it would definitely cause one to question his credibility. Be sure to hit me back with your thoughts.
Soli Deo Gloria,
R4C
(MN: By the way, T. Dexter is a prelate in the Higher Ground Always Abounding Assemblies [and you thought the name of my church is ludicrous. )
Oh, Mel…Sorry about that “anonymous” screen name…Hope it didn’t alarm you…I was working from another computer this morning, and I didn’t realize that it didn’t have my screen name already typed in the box…But I’m glad I signed at the end so you know it’s me :)…
Solus Christus,
R4C
R4C,
I have read your comments, but I just haven’t had time to respond to them as yet, but I will - please be patient with me as I want to do them justice in my replies.
I’ve been busy trying to get some end of the year things completed, but I will try and respond to the before the week is out.
Happy New Year!
CiCi
You are all a bunch of fanatics.
(MN: Truer words were never spoken. I consider my self a fanatical follower of Jesus Christ and a fanatical student of the Word of God. There is nothing more important, nothing that will take precedence over them, and nothing holds greater sway. The only part of the general “fanatic” label I would disgree with is the “unreasoning” part. Here, let me give you something else to have a fit about - I’m a fundamentalist too. )
Dear Kookie………you are a fanatic as well.
Everyone is a fanatic for something, because we were created with an innate drive to expend our affections on some object or other.
It’s just that the object of your fanaticism (whether it be sex, or drugs, or music, or Star Wars Geekdom, or anything else) isn’t worthy of the attention and adoration you expend. Ours is.
Well Mel, I guess the jig is up!!! You finally figured me out…Now as a “profit of the mos’ hi”, I decree and declare that if you sow a $1000 seed into my ministry right now you will recieve a 1000 fold blessing!!!(I’ve never been great at math so I don’t exactly know how much that is, but know that it’s a lot of money). I suggest that you make me your personal profit so that you may recieve a word at any time, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. Why do I know that I will always hear from gawd on your behalf? Because I’m way cheaper than E. Bernard Jordan. That’s right, you get all of your profitcies for only $50 per profitcy (this rate is only applicable when you request at least 50 profitcies per day, regular price is $75). All profitcies will be available immediately (as soon as your check clears). Make all checks and money orders payable to:
I See Your Blessing for You Because You Can’t Teach Yourself Ministries
123 Myhandinyourpocket Drive
Jacksonville, Florida 32288
Or, to set up direct deposit from your account, call our toll free number at 1-800-666-6639. If you can’t remember that ridiculously easy number, then just remember the letters are 1-800-M-O-M-O-N-E-Y.
Run to that phone right now Melvin and recieve your blessing TODAY!!!
Are we not supposed to mention a certain member of Jakes’ family?
(MN: Yours and two other postings are being pondered upon. I haven’t really decided yet. What’s your take on it? It’s not definite and still sits at hearsay. )
I know where you’re going IC, and there just isn’t any hard evidence that I’ve ever come across. Besides, it’s not necessarily any more of a reflection on TD than Eli’s sons were a reflection on his relationship to God.
Jakes is no Eli. I’ll be making a comment that does not mention the matter, to get us beyond it. I have no desire to impede discussion because of that. Let’s carry on without bringing that up.
Jakes is no Eli?? You better read again my friend.
1 Sam 4:18 When the messenger mentioned what had happened to the Ark, Eli fell backward from his seat beside the gate. He broke his neck and died, for he was old and very fat.
You are a sick man.
Although your scripture reference does help to show that homosexuality is not to be viewed as other sins…like gluttony.
IC, you’re the second person I consider a friend to call me “sick” in some capacity today. Mel is the other. Is God trying to tell me something??
On the word of 2 witnesses…
Let’s make it 3 for good measure…
: lol :
Oh, VERY nice.
To Melvin and IC,
I believe that Healtheland’s site has a posting on it. Isn’t that considered verifiable?
No! Leave that person alone. He has nothing to do (directly) with Jakes’ theology. He must stand before his Lord, on the basis of his obedience or disobedience to the scripture. Is this unnamed person in public ministry? If he is then , perhaps… If he is a private citizen, per se, he should be left alone. Whether its hearsay or not, how does it advance the purpose of PP to bring this person into it. Even if Jakes’ family member’s isue is the reason he is waffling; Jakes should be challenged on his position related to the authority of scripture.
(MN: We will not discuss the failings or the such of T. Dexter’s children - especially since it is hearsay. So let it be written, so let it be done [HSIHBYBA] )
HSIHBYBA = He said in his best Yul Brynner accent
Man, I thought you were speaking in tongues for a sec lol. Anyways, I think it is a good thing that all of us are trying to keep on point and not get distracted by things that right now, do not neccessarily concern us. Should people be made aware (especially if they call themselves Christian) about there sins? Without a doubt, yes. But there is a way to do it. Hopefully, God will bring it (repentance) about to anyone who’s sins are hampering their walk with HIM through HIS Word first. And if the LORD sees fit, admonishment through two individuals according to scripture and so on.
Melvin, please send me a copy of my comment. I’ll edit and repost it.
(MN: I’m afraid I deleted it. I may be able to get you the text once I get home this evening. )
Hi,
Let’s just stick to their theology and leave people’s kids alone. I agree with GaryV that whatever Jokes’ adult son may or may not do has nothing to do with him. Being soft on homosexuality is the least of TD’s problems.
With all due respect guys, I think that the activities of a preacher’s family are the business of the body, especially if there is the possibility that the financial support that was given for the sake of “ministry” is being utilized as a means of supporting the preacher’s family, which are on the payroll. While we must be careful as to not “bear false witness”, we must also not be silent when it comes to exposing what God considers to be “giving what is holy to those that are not holy”. No one is trying to hide the fact that many preachers, including the one in question, hire their children, wives, etc. as employees within the core ministries and various affiliates. Having said that, they are subject to moral, ethical, and biblical scrutiny as those who head the ministry (businesses) and those that receive monies as a result of the ministry (business).
Soft on homosexuality. (So many jokes so little time)
:lol:……….Cop,you are SO BAD.
hi cop,
i love a good laugh any day but homosexuality is nothing to joke about. Ephesians 5:3-6
Thx for the scripture Mrs.Maverick.
Hi Melvin re IC’s question and your response: Its not hearsay.
If anyone wanted eyewitness account it could be provided. But I contend thats not the central issue with TD Jake’s larger theological meltdowns.
(MN: And at this point I would say “Give me the eyewitness evidence and I will reconsider.” But until then, I must decline to publish the information. )
I think the issue is: should one repeat what is true out of the context of what needs to be said. In this case, TD’s softening and repositioning of his theology could be directly related to the issue with family member. That could be considered an “x” factor. But what other reason would he have? (MN: There is some weight to this argument. It’s perhaps similar to John K. Jenkins and his daughter. )
Some may want to toss it out as a gratuitous slap in the face to TD, but that this flat wrong. Whats sad is that his repositioning will only, as you said, move him further away from God and eventually implode his already fragile minstry standing.
GCMWATCH, a third person account (which cannot be verified by cross examination of the party directly and under oath) is the very definition of hearsay.
If you have someone who claims they know or saw something, and that person cannot be examined and cross-examined to ascertain the veracity of their statements, you have a hearsay account.
Agree with you 100% BTW I’m was hoping that you would send me “The Mel Secret Handbook” for Christmas.
Cushie, the HandBook is useless without the Decoder Ring. You have so much to learn about the DEEEEEEEEP things of GAWWWWD.
I have always wondered about the New Years Convention Revival. Why is it that Calvary and Glenarden come together to have a revival? Do you think they do it to share the costs of having Jakes come and preach? Now you know that having him, will not be cheap!!!!
Hey Jay,while I’m curious about that too,I’m even more curious about how they manage to get God to send them revival on their schedule every New Years??
Not to mention why folks who get revival so regularly still can’t seem to either understand the Bible or gain enough spiritual discernment to see when they’re being pimped??
Hey Gary, I think that people really don’t know how to study the Bible. They don’t challenge themselves on an individual basis, because of what preachers tell them. “Listen to your pastor”. “Don’t challenge the man of God”. “He watches over your soul.” How is someone going to watch over your soul, and not even know who you are? How do they know what spiritual practices work well for you? Fear is a component that leaders inflict upon their members, so nobody will question them. A lot of people are afraid to step out and be their own person, because of what the church will say about them.
I believe that there is a business deal, that goes behind the scenes, of the New Years Revival. There is a lot of money floating around, behind the curtains. TD Jakes and Tye Tribett are not cheap people to bring in. I smell something fishy.
Yup………..fishy indeed.
Melvin or anyone i would love to get someones perspective on how having millions and millions of dollars effect the motives of someone like Jakes or etc. Because i think sometimes they preach about being rich and i think that this is the very thing sometimes that keeps there eyes off Christ and his agenda, and 20 years down the road they are just savy business men sayin god did it. Being a former athlete i have been around people with real money and in my case its been black folk (i’m black by the way) but it does something to them. can someone give me their perspective on that?
Hey dominic,
Good question and Happy New Year. I think that many people, who come to hear TD Jakes, because he is a very prosperous man. These people think that if they buy a book, hear him at a revival or get hands laid on them, that they are going to have what TD Jakes has. NOT!!!! What God has for TD Jakes, may not be for somebody else. Prosperity and riches are NOT a definite sign of spirituality. I use to be one of those people that were in such “amazement”, when TD Jakes would come to town. People would be breaking the elastic on their wallet, to give to him. I think it’s pathetic. You hear a sermon, shout and then the battle of the dollars begin. People get mad at me, when I say this, but I don’t care. It’s all a money scheme, and people are falling for it, like worms on a fishing hook. People are always trying to find ways to acheive more financial success. What better way to do this, but to prey on church members. Money and salvation have nothing to do with each other. The Gospel is being blinded by the love of power and dollar bills. This spirit is really taking over the church. I hate to say this, but I have always found black churches, to be so quick to preach about “money”. It’s like a slave mentality. One of your sentences speaks for itself. At the end, it’s all about being savvy and business-like. Let me know what your opinions are.
Jay, it is interesting that you say “money and salvation have nothing to do with each other” and you are absolutely correct. Yet if you look through history one of the points that ended up leading to the Reformation was the Catholic church’s selling of indulgences. “When a coin in the coffer rings, a soul from purgatory springs”- John Tetzel. Fast forward to today, while the Catholic church no longer sells indulgences, bishops and itinerant evangelists and lackluster pastors are teaching that giving is the way to heaven. This is why we must study the bible for ourselves that way we know we are in the truth. If we fail to keep the Word, then we are open to any trick of the enemy, simply because we love ourselves more than the laws of God.
Slight correction Julian……..indulgences are still offered by the Catholic Anti-Church. Tetzel lives on.
Mel, forgive me for saying this, but your former church is slowly beginning to sound like a cult, with the whole “you can’t teach yourself” thing…but then again, I’m only 17, what could I possibly know?
Dominic,
The answer to your questions are simple. Jesus answered you when He said that we cannot worship God and mammon…then He said that it is easier for a camel to get through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter heaven. The issue is really not MONEY. The issue is the LOVE OF MONEY, which is the root of all evil (immorality). There are some of us that are very well off and want for nothing financially or materialistically, but we also know that God placed us in these positions not to “increase our own territory”, but to serve as catalysts and warriors for the furthering of His kingdom. Money is a TOOL, not the RULE.
Here’s an interesting story from the Associated Press:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071227/ap_on_re_us/prosperity_preachers;_ylt=Avqr59wwhuh37.hoR6GerLnBF4l4
The headline: “Gospel of wealth” facing scrutiny.
Oh my GOD, please help! This story is sooo sad. This is not an isolated case. There are many just like her. Decieved, duped, damaged and disenchanted. Lets not forget to pray for those who fall into the clutches of false doctrine and spiritual abuse.
Know what, these TV ministers spew their false gospel and never have to deal with the reality of what happens when their deceptions don’t “work”. In the meantime they have spent the money of the donor and have made 7 new converts (victims) while the others are looking for an answer. This make me as mad a h— sometimes!
Interesting reading for all:
http://www.cnn.com/2007/LIVING/wayoflife/12/27/prosperity.preachers.ap/index.html
Hey Dominic Hardie,
Happy Holidays to you. To answer your question, I think that people associate having a lot of money, with being a “super, anointed” person. These people that run head over heels to see TD Jakes, see only his riches, and nothing else. They think that if they go to a revival, read a book or get hands laid on them, that they are going to get the same wealth that TD Jakes has. NOT!!!! It frustrates me how people in the church can be easily “bought” and “pimped”. I am so glad that I came across this website. It exposes the raw truth.
When you really look at it, the church has become a “business operation”. We have all of these conferences, where you have to pay all of this money to attend. You hear more about wealth, than you hear about trying to build a Christian spirit What people don’t understand is that TD Jakes has savvy skills, in order to create the life that he has. Everybody can’t do what he does. Let me know any opinions that you have about my statement.
Pretty much like artiste today everyone’s flocking to hear them rap about their money, achievements etc. Uncanny isn’t it.
“Feed the flock, not on the Flock!”
Mr. Jones, your latest post doesn’t surprise me about Jakes and his recent affiliations. Recently, he, Rev. Calvin Butts and other members of the black clergy met to rally the government to take action on preventing the spread of HIV in the black community. Which by the way, the government is not responsible for, in my opinion, but that’s another topic. At this conference, Jakes claims that he did not want to get into a theological debate on homosexuality. His comment was that he was about saving lives and that he could save souls tomorrow. Well, “Bishop” Jakes, why not save souls now, so those souls can avoid the pitfalls of promiscuity, homosexuality, drug abuse, etc., which can in turn put a dent in this awful disease that’s affecting our community and world? Aren’t bisohps and preachers supposed to precipitate the saving of souls and give us all a moral foundation on which to live so we can in turn pass this on to the next generations? If we all wait on Jakes to save souls tommorow, I’m afraid that tommorow will never arrive.
And if everyone dies today they won’t be here when tommorrow comes. It’s not an “either/or” question — it’s a “both/and”. I think that most of these ministers are trying to do all they can to both save souls and lives. And I for one think that it’s about time that we practically do all we can to become salt and light in our world in a real way.
(MN: Do not fear him who can destroy the body, but fear Him who can destroy the soul. Get the morals right and the rest of it will take care of itself. The spread of AIDS is primarily the result of immoral behavior. No illicit sex, no infections. No infections through sex between husband and wife, no infections through blood transfusions. No drug abuse, no infection through sharing needles. No infection through sharing needles, no infection through blood transfusion.
Though it sounds cold, the vast majority of the heterosexual infections are generally a result of a D/L infecting his wife, a drug user infecting his or her spouse, or a donor giving bad blood. And the bad blood scenario has been reduced way down with effective screening.
By preaching the Gospel, those who accept and modify