The Houston Hustler (aka I. V. Hilliard) just sent me my monthly “Send Me Money” package. And as always, I got some goodies in the envelope. Take a look at the picture above and see if you can guess which Bible story he’s using to take my money this month. There are five of them…they’re smooth…ignore the fact that they look like jelly beans…yes…yes…that right! He’s going to make an appeal to David and Goliath!
Do you think he talks about the contrast of leadership styles exhibited by Saul and David? Perhaps he talks about the importance of honoring God and trusting Him. Or maybe, just maybe, he wants me to send him one or more of the stones (with some money) so he can pray that some giant in my life will be defeated.
Given what we know about this pimp, take a guess as to which approach he took. Oh, and by the way, the first two guesses don’t count.
That’s right! The Houston Hustler wants us to send him some money. But look at what he puts you through.
I would suggest you read the letter in its entirety. It’s a masterwork of manipulation and an appeal to greed and an easy life. And throughout the little epistle, he places himself squarely between you and God.
Page 1 - the set up
Page 2 - Twisting God’s Arm
Page 3 - Hilliard will pray you through
Petition Stone Form - Here’s how much money you should send him
Page 4 - Final appeal for money
Page two is an example of why an accurate view of God is so very important. According to I. V. the will of God is not automatic. You have to know what to do to pring it to pass. And that, or course, can be done by following his faith building instructions…which include sending him money. Sure, he makes all the “depend on God” noises at the bottom of the page, but this is after assuring us that we have to bring it to pass. I wonder if Korah had to work to bring God’s will to pass in his life (Numbers 26:9-10). Probably not.
Page three he lets you know what you have to do. Well, lo and behold, you have to send him the Giant Killing Petition so he and five of his “prayer partners” can come before God on your behalf. Whatever happened to working out my own salvation with fear and trembling, or calling for the elders to pray with you? Why do I have to send some joker an order form so he can pray for me? What did people do before he was born?
Once I send him the petition stone form, I. V. is going to send me SPECIAL INSTRUCTIONS (oohh!) on how to kill the giant in my life.
With the Investment Stone I am to make a sacrificial offering for a move of God in my life (again, if I give to them, God will act for me. Put a coin in the slot, a wish comes out. ) And of course, if I don’t have the money, I can always use my credit card to make sure they have the money. But before I do that, I should put my “Victory Over the Giants Petition” (aka God’s Blessing Order Form) in my Bible next to Jeremiah 32:17 overnight.
Finally, there is the Immediacy stone. As with most of the pimps, the Houston Hustler insists that we act right now - before one of my relatives has a chance to actually examine what he has me doing in light of Scripture.
Remember: These people think you are stupid. I, on the other hand, know that you are as capable of understanding the Bible as I am. The Bible says that those “giants” in our lives are there for our good (James 1:2-4). We develop in wisdom and patience. We know that we are able to pray to God ourselves and that He will hear our prayers if we pray according to His will (John 9:31 - God hears him that does God’s will). We know that we can pray for and with each other without having to give money to some badly dressed clown and his clownette in Houston (James 5:14). And notice in James that the elders come to the sick person, we don’t simply send money to the hustler.
Overall, I have greatly enjoyed the scam packets I receive from the Hustler. They give me so much material with which to warn you that these people think you are stupid. Every month, I. V. comes up with a new way to convince me to send him money. Every month it’s God’s spirit that has implressed him with the need to send me this trinket or that bauble. Again, EVERY MONTH God tells him that there is some other pressing need in my life. And every month God (as I. V. hears Him) is wrong.
But every month, I’m supposed to send in money so God can bless me with stuff, an easy life, great relationships, etc, etc, etc. And every month, some of you who truly want to be obedient to the voice of God, send him your money - and are disappointed when nothing happens, or things get worse.
By the way - it seems the good pastor has convinced enough of you that he’s actually a bishop. That’s right. Take a look at the return envelop and you can see that he now has the title of “Bishop.” Man! I wish I could find a job where I could give me a promotion whenever I felt like it!
Melvin, How dare you not fall for Bishop IV’s latest scheme, er uh I mean ministerial appeal! Whaddya think? That you actually have access to the Father through our Lord Jesus Christ? There you go thinking and reading your Bible and messing it up for the pimps. You just messed up the rotation… The other sheeple might catch on.. Oh my…. LOL Keep the truth coming, Melvin.
The saddest thing is for folks to really believe they need someone special to pray for them. That Hilliard prayers go directly to God. Where as the ordinary person’s prayers go to a lowely switchboard operator.
When will folks stop supporting Ministers that employ such transparent efforts to victimize us.
Hey there Veman!! How are you?? Good to see you here.
“The INVESTMENT STONE which activitates the power of the wisdom from the Lord.” Funny, I don’t remember reading about a stone in James 1:5
I’m sending in my kidney stone with my offering……..it seems more appropriate since I’ll be peeing away my money.
Gary, you are pure comedy my friend. I thought about sending I.V a bodily processed watermelon seed. Or Kernel of undigested corn. I bet if I taped it to a dollar they would take it.
JC………”Bodily processed”?? I about split a gut on that one !! LOL!!!!
I was half expecting to read “then draw a pentacle in goat’s blood” in those instructions as I was reading through them! LOL
It dumbfounds me that the same people who will tear the horoscope page out of the newspaper and throw it away because it may have evil spirits on it will follow these invocation “formulas” that sound like they come right out of a Wiccan handbook. Same thing with “pleading the blood”, reciting/chanting the name “Jesus” over and over and over, shouting “Fire!!”, or invoking Psalm 91 for protection from all harm (which Wiccans and other “white magic” people do, btw).
Very sad, and yet panfully close to home
P.T. Barnum was correct about a “sucker being born every minute” (or something like that). It’s amazing that anyone could fall for such nonsense. How about spending one’s hard earned money for financial counseling or psychotherapy? You know, the CPA and MSW/PhD type folks? Those would work better than “magic stones from David vs. Goliath”. Too secular I guess, plus it cuts out the Pulpit Pimps entirely so I guess those are not real options for the sheep.
I’ve always wondered do these preachers pay some of their members to make their lies look true? I know people who have received checks and stuff in the mail, and claim the Lord has blessed them. Then the duped give these guys even more and more money as they search for more checks in the mail. Are these pimps behind this too? Can they send money in the mail to some of their members? It makes sense because if these members give a testimony that God gave them a check in the mail, hey more people are going to want in on it. They’ll think “Since God paid their bills off, He can send me money to pay mine!” I wish I knew of some documented proof that this goes on. Hey, I’ve gotten a check in the mail. I was tithing, so that’s why I got the check? God was just blessing me right? No, my mortgage company withdrew to much money from my escrow, so they were paying back what was overdrawn. But I guess I must say that it was because I was tithing into a ministry at that time right?
I have one friend who is following Tony Brazelton in Clinton, Md, who believes his new car and job came from God, because he gave to the pastor. I peacefully made known to him the scriptures, but he seems strong in his belief that it’s because of the money going into Tony’s pocket. I wonder is Tony slipping him some checks on the side? Could this be true Melvin?
(MN: Yes, it’s true. And if you send me some money, you’ll get a new job that pays fifty percent more than you make now. It will require fewer hours of work, and the company will pay for all of you gas or metro costs. Make the check out to:
It Could Happen Ministries
Melvinite Temple of Fantastic Happenings
23467 Anathema Lane
Bowie, MD 20723
Pay in small unmarked bills so I can deposit it easily. We had to stop taking checks months ago. It was some silly mix up with the Internal Revenue Service. )
That’s a low down and dirty shame Melvin! lol
That’s fine, just as long as you allow me to testify to the congregation later saying “Turn to your neighbor and tell ‘em money comin!” It’s my destiny to say that.
Of course they do… the slot machines pay out every once in a while too. But they take in FAR more than they pay out.
Until you all mentioned paying people it never dawned on me that used money to get these people to lie. But then again the pimps must pay their prostitutes every once in a while to keep them hooking.
My count might be off a bit, but I think he mentioned your name 11 times in this short letter. (part of the pimp game to make you think he knows you personally) Can you say, “microsoft word “?
It felt like I was reading a chain letter…”"If you throw this letter away…blah, blah, blah”. Give me a break already!
(MN: Orchids, I deleted one of your comments. I couldn’t tell if it was spam or not. My apologies!!! )
I visit New Light Pimp-err Christian Center from time to time, and I get a hoot out of how they take up the offering. The sheeple recite this montra/confession that goes something like this “Thank you Father because I have given to support the Man and Woman of God, I too will have a first class life style. Thank you Father because I have given to support the Ministries transportation (helicpoter, and private jet), I will have God’s best in my own transportation”. Hilliard had Eddie Long, Paul Mortin, Harold Ray, and another gentelman I can’t think of right now to “confirm” him as a Bishop back in April… I was planning on going to the service, but I had another obligation. Melvin, I you’re ever in or around the fair city of Houston, you should check Hilliard out, his facilities are impressive to say the least.
(MN: My bad. I thought he made himself a bishop. It’s comforting to know that he had to go through a couple of Baptists to do it. I guess it doesn’t matter that Baptist churchology doesn’t include bishops. That’s beside the point, eh? )
That’s that Paul Morton break-way mess in action!
I’ve been hoping to document some of those offertorial chants for a post.
Perhaps I’ll just do an open call for people to send a few in. Or anyone reading this that knows of a ridiculous one like Hillard’s can send it to me, but you’ve got to know every single word
. Honestly, I want this nonsense documented in exact detail to expose for the nonsense that it really is.
When in Atlanta, I went to this house of pimping once for a visit. (Didn’t know what was going on there before entering.) I can’t remember the words, but the chant was so awful, both me and the wife were fighting to hold back the laughter. They even had a detailed list of stuff they wanted, stocks, bonds, witty inventions and so on…
IC, I have some! I will email them to you.
There’s a church in my area that had this prayer mantra that was rehearsed before the offering was taken up every Sunday. It said something like increase in income, money to be found, checks in the mail, bonuses, returns on investments, etc., etc., etc. What cracked me up was when the pastor’s secretary asked for a raise (having not gotten one in a year or more), she was told by the “Minister of Finance” (the one who led everyone through the mantra) that not only would she not get a raise, but that he was adding to her duties. I told her to print out the “mantra” and in the next board meeting read it aloud and ask them how comfortable they felt making these statements every Sunday, and after being given the opportunity to make this proclamation happen for one of their own staff members, choose not to be a blessing. She ran it by the Pastor (who cracked up that she went there and was impressed with her boldness) and he told them to give her a raise. {In fairness, the Pastor of that church really isn’t as crass as the Minister of Finance was, who is no longer there because he got sat down for not knowing how to talk to and treat people.}
I wonder what would have happened if the whole church new of this.
What is amazing to me is that these mantras are always about money. What about proclaiming for the offering period “obedience to God’s Word, more time to spend with the Lord, more time to spend in His Word, witty ways to help others, overcoming anger and increasing my ability to forgive, etc., etc., etc. But what am I thinking; that doesn’t sell.
Sounds a little familiar Trayjay. Would this church happen to be in the Central Ohio area and first 3 initials happen to be N, C, B (possibly but not necessarily in this order. I’m not trying to start trouble.
Greetings, Anon. Try Southwest Ohio (on the very edge). I won’t expound more than that.
Bro. Melvin,
I am new to this site and i get a laugh every time i read what the pimps/hustlers are doing. You mean to tell me people really believe this stuff? Has the body of Christ gone mad? Thank you for the insights.
Melvin,
The first thing that stood out for me was when Hilliard said that the will of God is not automatic, yeah I knew then that there would be a price for God’s will and it would have to be paid to Hilliard. The rhetoric that I noticed most was his use of the personal pronoun I, I will do this for you, I know this and I know that, I was waiting for him to say, “I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High” I know the bible instructs us to beware of these false prophets and pimps and thank God many are, but it is the unlearned sheep that are being led to slaughter by these clown. I cringe when I hear them or read such garbage as the letter he sent to you and many others.
WHERE ARE THE HILLIARDITES TODAY?!?!?! My my……..wasn’t it just a few days ago that we had some of the Hilliard Borg here telling us what a MAND of GAWWWWD he is??
Funny how I.V. (short for “Infernal Viper”) mentions giants, seeing this letter is a giant steaming pile of dung.
This is truly disgusting .I am on Peter Ripoff’s mailing list and I think I.V’s (Incorrect vermin) game is much better. Did you peep out the platinum plate he’s wearing around his neck ? Rolo (Lamont’s homie) would be proud. This is utter foolishness.
More proof that the scripture quoting , bible toting, doctrine defending. Leader of the justice league Super Mel is needed to help sniff out the schemes and scams of the wolves. The legion of doom is strong with it’s many evil doers such as. The priestess Paula who can transform herself into pseudo negro preacher and hypnotize you with the phrase “you’re all that” .The diabolical dollar man who will squeeze s-curl juice on your hands so money can slide out of them. We must also be aware of the powers of the Joker Jesse whose wild tales are so silly they zap all intelligence from your brain.
Mel , keep up the good work brother. If you do I’ll send you five grains of sand their worth more than I.V’s stones.
JC…………..you’ve been hanging around here TOO long brother LOL!!
Gary, my wife tells me the same thing all the time.What can I say I’m a dedicated Melvinite.Gary here is my Email address hit me up sometime. JCrep32@Juno.com. God bless you brother
You don’t have to post this..but have you seen this?
Let’s make sure we get the 1-800 number out there.
The foundation sponsors and staffs America’s only nationwide toll-free help line (1-800-229-VICTIM) for people who believe they or a loved one has been victimized by a televangelist.
(MN: Just one problem - It goes to the Trinity Foundation, headed by ol’ Ole. )
melville, who’s ol’ ole? i really don’t know.
Mrs. Mav,
IC has written much about ol’ Ole. Check it out on this link:
Trinity Foundation
By the way, I immensely enjoy your blog. I haven’t commented, but I do read it from time to time and find it very refreshing. Blessings to you.
Soli Deo Gloria,
Ready4Change
hi r4c,
thanx for stopping by and the compliment. (warm smile)
MAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAV !!!!!!!!!!
PAISAAAAAANNNNNOOOOO!!! ROFLOL!!!
GARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRY!!!!!!!
The World??? Heaven help us…
LOL @ mickey LOL!!!
MMMMMMMMMMICKEYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!!!
R4C, did you send away for the Holy Hanky on Mav’s site?? She douses it with Anointing Oil (sold separately) and prays over it (sold separately) and lays hands on it (sold separately).
You should get it……..I was having financial troubles, but the Holy Hanky really came through for me when I wrapped it around my billfold. I didn’t get any money or anything,but that Anointing Oil really brought out the sheen in my leather wallet.
ahhhh, it’s so nice when you can still appreciate silliness. i’m 41 chronologically, (don’t look a day passed 40, though) but personality wise, i’ll always be young at heart. thanks melville for your patience with us. (warm smile) LOL
ps. don’t wonder about us gg, Lord willing , 20 years from now, you’ll understand. LOL btw, msamu (mickey) is a grandpa.
(MN: Congratulations MSAMU! Grandchildren are (so far) a hoot. )
Congrats Mickey!! That’s great brother!!
It’s so unfortunate that a sales pitch such as this not only preys on those in desperate situations, but it also convinces folks who are living abundant lives to attempt to grab for more by shelling out the bucks for their “breakthroughs”. I’ve seen it happen a million times with those who already have the nice homes, careers, spouses, 2.5 kids, and most importantly, good sound religious doctrine. They allow the bishops, apostles, prophets, pastors and spousal co-pastors to creep in and convince them that their lives are still not up God’s standards. Thus the need to demonstrate to God their faithfulness by sacrificing; i.e. donating to the pimps.
Thanks so much Mr. Jones for the flow of information.
Did you notice on the “Petition Stone Form - Here’s how much money you should send him”, it lists the $35 amount first, then a $25 amount and increases from there. But on the “Page 4 - Final appeal for money”, the letter tells you that “you may choose to sow a seed as little as $35″. I guess that’s part of the scheme of pulling a fast one at the end of the year.
“When once your coin in the coffer clings
A soul from
purgatoryfinancial bondage springs…”Seriously, shades of medieval Roman Catholicism left and right in this abominable letter! It’s ex opere operato with your “seed of faith” gift.
OOOOOO………I like Laura!! A perfect analogy,and a bit of Latin to boot!!
There are MANY issues I have with our Catholic counterparts, but I have to say this, they have FAR more integrity when it comes to money than the majority of these Mega Churches. The Priest is definately not in for money, they live in modest parsonages, drive modest vehicles, wear modest clothing ect. Also ANYONE can go to the nearest catholic church for help and they WILL help you. That’s the complete opposite of these Pimp Centers. I personally know a woman who was a Begger-err Mega Church member of a long time (even before it turned into what it is now), and she fell on hard times. She was laid off of her job, and lived off of unemployment. At that point, she stopped paying tithes because she just couldn’t afford it. She hadn’t been gainfully employed for over a year, and went to that Church for help, and they denied her request for assistance because she wasn’t current on her tithes.
I don’t know B612. When I think of Catholics and money I think of Papal Indulgences, Tetzel, the confiscation of Jewish property to fund St Peter’s, the retention on the “payroll” of pedophilic priests, the money spent to move those priests away from the long arm of the law, the money being paid out to victims of abuse, the money used to fund the lavish lifestyle of the Proto-Pimp the Pope, the money used to fund the lifestyles of the Cardinals, the money gained under false pretenses every Sunday……….etc etc etc.
I see what you’re saying, but Catholic+money= anything but integrity.
Perhaps intergity may have been too strong a word to use there.
Agreed………let’s just say they are somewhat more charitable toward the poor and leave it at that??
That’s probably one of the reasons the government is on these churches behinds. These mega churches racks in millions of dollars a year, but yet they can’t or refuse to help somebody except family members and friends. That don’t sit right with nobody.
I.V.Hilliard is a true scam artist. What is more grievious
are the duped people who are so desparate that they will send in their “last dollar” with the hopes of getting
ten dollars.
I believe that I.V. Hilliard’s conscience is seared and
he has given himself over to a reprobate mind. He
no longer follows the directions of the Holy Spirit but
rather is merchandising the saints for all they are
worth.
No shame. No confrontation in his face by anyone who
has “standing” (in I.V. Hilliard’s eyes) to confront him
and do a Nathan v. David dialogue on him.
Hilliard is making a mockery of the Word of God and
what is also tragic is that those who know better are
keeping silent about his antics for their misplaced
fear that they are judging him!
People should be marching outside of his assembly
building with placards denouncing this con artist.
Imagine what Paul, Peter and James would do if they
were to visit the churches in America and witness these
antics and cons. Would they keep silent? Hardly.
They would probably be in jail for trespass and disturbing the peace and with Peter rebuking the demonic spirits that have captured too many of our
“churches.”
What a mess but God is not to be mocked. He will
avenge His word.
Dear Bro. Jones,
I have taken time to visit your site on a few different occasions. I have done this in an effort not to make a rushedperception from my first encounter. In reading many of your articles, it seems that you have positioned yourself to be an attacker of the church.
The many experiences that you share about yourself, as it relates to your Christian walk, are great indicators of hurt,doubt and confusion. Nonetheless, one thing that continues to puzzle me about those who argue that the church is wrong when it comes to asking for money is this…why do we not hear this argument with the same fervor when it is the politician, the department store commercial, the movie theatre industry, the musicians from the world, the video games marketer or any other entity that requests, directly or indirectly, for your financial support? By what other means do you feel that God’s work should be financed?
The scriptures also gave instructions for tithing and alms. If a man or woman servant of God starts a business to establish another means by which they can raise funds to perform ministry, the government becomes uncomfortable and investigates it. If it is requested within the congregation, persons like yourself “bash” it.
Not all servants of God are dishonest. Not all persons of the world are dishonest. Yet the church is targeted and ostricized for any hint of success it may carry. We cannot depend on the world to do everything. Is it not evident that the church’s lack of doing all that it should and some of what it could not permeates in the decay of our culture.
I am sure your response will probably be highly inclined to brutally attack me because I am opposed to your attack on the church. Clearly I reiterate my statement: attack on the church, not the servants who you blatantly name and judge repeatedly. Judging is the right of Christ not man. If it is felt someone is defaming the name of the Lord, God will hold them accountable. We, as Christians, should pray that they repent and turn their hearts truly to God and stop walking in iniquity. Attacking them is not right. Is there any man without sin? Because your sin is not my sin, does this make me better than you? I am saddened Bro. Jones that you have dedicated a site to this type of attention. It is as if you have the heart of Saul. Will you post an article on your site about the new movie made for children, that focuses on children out to kill God? Is that itself not a great autrocity?As well, it is every Christian’s responsibility to be concerned with three basic aspects of existence - pleasing God, loving/helping our neighbor and contributing our gifts(not just monetary) towards the betterment of humanity. It is a our vocation, it is our calling.
When Paul, the tent maker, wrote the letter to the believers reminding them that he had not asked anything of them in respect of his personal needs, it was because they were grumbling as if they did. That’s is what spirit rests in your articles. That which is asked for by the man/woman servant is not for their personal needs, it is for the need of the kingdom. For example: feeding the homeless, clothing the homeless, providing supplies to children for school, paying utilities for needy families, bereavement funding, assisting persons with higher and continued education, etc. The vast needs for ministry has a demand in great areas. We should not have to refer persons to social and civic organizations, when the body of Christ can help their brother or sister. If the persons collecting those funds are not integral, again I say, Christ will judge them. Every dark moment is eventually exposed. Recall Enron? Watergate?
But it’s okay to ask for money to save the whales, the rainforest, etc., just as long as you are not from the church? HMMMMM……..It’s okay for people who are operating in the spirit of deception, evilness, corruption and things totally opposite of God to wear Armani suits, carry Dooney & Burke and drive multi-thousand dollar vehicles? No one questions these persons? WHY?
My point is Bro. Jones, your attack hurts the church as a whole, not the persons you name. It is possible you may not even care. Yet to a new Christian, a non-believer, or a person seeking a word of encouragement from the Lord, running across your site, will give them the impression that all churches, regardless of denomination or affiliation, success or none, televised or wood floored — is a structure of fraudulence — that not only degrades the church, it degrades the name of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
I purposed not to quote scriptures in my email to you, because I wanted to speak from my heart. I am personally exhausted with the attack on the church. The are true Christians in this world, on fire for God, going to the next level, radical in the fact that they are not scared to proclaim such in the midst of this world that tells us to be politically correct, not fearing to seed into ministry and kingdom work, so that others may be blessed and trusting and believing God in His Word. God still reigns on the throne and He alone is God! Not man, not television, not websites, not opinions. His Word is unchanging. God is faithful to His Word and His promise. If He said it, IT Bro. Jones is done.
If you truly desire to weed out false prophets, I pray you seek the counsel of the Lord for direction, so that every step you take is truly ordered by Him and not by yourself. For when any of us operate outside of His will….we too are operators of iniquity.
I was captivated for years by one of these ministries that you believe does so much for the community. Economically speaking, if they did so much good, wouldn’t the impact in our communities be more evident?
Unfortunately, my marriage was torn asunder because my ex-husband was more concerned with being available for “ministry” than he was with taking care of his family. What is worse–I was a part of the ministry first and actually encouraged him to join. I was also a staff member for 7 years, so I know exactly what goes on in staff meetings before the pastor goes out and does his thing to raise money.
If you’ve never been behind the scenes, it’s really hard to understand what goes on. In most of these churches, the pastor is raising the money to finance a lavish life style. Staff members live close to the poverty level, and the folks standing in the $100 lines are being duped.
Melvin can’t make the church look bad. All these bogus pastors do the job well enough themselves. Sure, some are sincere and believe they are following the word of God. But when a person is deceived, they don’t know that they are deceived. Take it from an ex-Kool-Aid drinker. Don’t believe the hype. Don’t allow yourself to be bamboozled. Think rationally about that next offering appeal.
Anonymous………..your post is filled with Scriptural error, all of which have been addressed NUMEROUS times. Rather than spew out the same tired cliches that have been covered numerous times,why not deal with the RESPONSES that have been posted ad infinitum??
I doubt you’ve read very much here as you claim, because no one could read very long and still bring up such nonsense as tithing for Christians, or the inane assertion that doing as the Bible commands and guarding against false doctrine and warning the sheep is attacking the church rather than GUARDING the church against wolves and their enablers (wink,wink), or that the raising of funding by BIBLICAL means rather than through Scripture twisting (like TITHING for example……nudge, nudge) means that we don’t think Christians should give, or your frankly nonsensical assertion that these pimps addressed here are not using the money for their own PERSONAL wealth as they fly about in jets and Armani suits and live in mansions and drive Bentleys.
Really………..do you have an original thought in your head anywhere?? Would you care to actually DO what you SAID you did and read the blog BEFORE you post stuff that’s been addressed ad nauseum, and which anyone who has spent 10 solid minutes in the archives could have had answered for themselves??
I know you didn’t DO this because you would have addressed the ANSWERS we’ve given REPEATEDLY rather than regurgitate the same tired spew.
Care to try again??
I love the way all of you choose to attack. Where is the love of Christ? As for what I have read….it all reeks of the same bitterness and insults that you and Bro. Jones exemplify. Because one differs does not make them uneducated. I also said, as I told Bro. Jones, it is for Christ to judge if they are doing wrong? Why do you feel you all should have the right that the Scriptures say belong to Christ? Finally, I pray for the unity of the body of Christ and this site “anonymous” does not promote that which Christ proclaimed…..May the Lord Bless You
No. What makes on uneducated is when they differ with the clear teaching of Scripture and ignore the fact that the difference is there and never bother to even attempt to bring their opinions in line with Scripture. That is the epitome of being uneducated - with respect to the Bible.
But let me ask you a question: Do you think that which Hilliard is doing and saying in his letter is consistent with God’s character and a desire to walk a holy and obedient life? Do you think his actions and the actions he is telling the believers to take are valid in light of Scripture?
Gary,
You said” regurgitate the same tired spew.” Isn’t that like the pot calling the skillet black,from what I have read from you and others is the same spew regurgitated over and over and over again. Nothing new just same spew regulated to the same people or denominations. And God help us if someone doesn’t agree with YOUR THEOLOGY then the name calling and rhetoric machine cranks up into high gear.
(MN: Here, let me help you understand. The drive by people come in and say one of three things. Specifically they say:
a. Touch not mine anointed
b. We shouldn’t judge
c. We should love the people we disagree with, not publicize their error
The consistently come in and say these things. It doesn’t change. They don’t come up with new bilge water to put out here. It’s ALWAYS the same. [Yes, yes - I’m sure if you look hard enough you will discover some comments that are not exactly these. But I suspect you get my point. ]
As a result, GaryV’s response to the spew is always the same. How can it be any different? If I ask you your name five times, are you not going to give me the same answer each time?
Remember, the audience on this site is not constant. New people come in. But those new people need to be told exactly the same things as the ones who have moved on. The message is the same. The receivers (one hopes) are different. )
Jay, brave anonymous stated that he visited here and looked around so that he wouldn’t have a rushed perception.What does he then do?? Repeat the same tired,worn out, unScriptural drivel that even a CURSORY perusal of the site would have shown has been dealt with ad nauseum.
If he HAD done as he SAID he had done and performed due diligence, he would not have parroted virtually every shallow cliche that has ever been dropped here as if it was some revelation from GAWWWWWWWD.
If he HAD done as he claimed,he would have dealt with the ANSWERS to such tripe as tithing in the New testament,and the Biblical command to expose the wolves, and the twisting of Scripture by these pimps,and the rot about leaving the vipers alone to destroy because we shouldn’t judge false doctrine.
If you think you can do better (and it would be difficult to do worse) than Anonymous, step up to the plate.Lay out your case FROM SCRIPTURE (not one VERSE of which was cited by Anonymous to defend his position).
Make your case………but don’t come claiming you’ve read the site and posting Scripturally unsupported cliches that have been dealt with ad infinitum and expect not to be challenged on it like Anonymous.
Batter UUUUUUUUP!!
Anonymous
I remember when I was earnestly seeking the LORD it was like a BREATH of fresh air when a sober Christian explained to me that all the whooping, jumping, screaming, boasting etc does NOT mean one is filled with the Spirit as I was led to believe when I attended my dear mother’s Pentecostal church.
Until this explanation was given, I had made up my mind that if being a Christian meant that I’d be a “mad man” then I would prefer to remain in sin. Thank God for that Bible believing sober Christian.
Thank God for a web site where young believers and seekers can find truth and be grounded in the Word rather than on experience alone.
I, too am grateful for this sight. I visit everyday and have just recently started adding my “2 cents”. For me this sight just confirms everything that I have been studying on my own.
I was once COGIC/Pentacostal and I am still recovering from the emotional damage brought on by that experience. I am not speaking for every COGIC church, but only about the one I belonged to. We (the congregation) were constantly threatened into paying our tithes. The pastor would say “don’t be surprised if you get to work and there is a pink slip on your desk” or “that’s why you got that flat tire on the freeway, or your car wouldn’t start the other morning”. It was like trying to pay off the mob. No one was giving because they were cheerful givers. We were mortified and intimidated into giving. Also there was this obessesion with the devil. Everything was the devil and or a demon. Smoking demon, cursing demon, lying demon, fornicating demon, gossiping demon, eating demon. And then there were demons in your TV and demons in that picture on your wall and demons on the furniture. So then you had to get your blessed oil out and anoint those items in your home to run the demons out. And don’t let certain people in your home because they may leave behind whatever demons they may have and those demons would jump on you or your family. And then you had to make sure you prayed in tongues because if you prayed in your regular language, the devil would take your prayers before they had a chance to get to God and your prayer would not be answered. Mind, you, I didn’t even know what I was praying for when I prayed in tongues, but somehow, it was supposed to work. I even started to believe I had demons myself. As a result, I would fast for days and then “purge” the so called demons out. I was a basket case. I know this all sounds like hyperbole, but it is not. This is what I experienced. It left me paranoid and almost schizophrenic. I literaly had a nervous breakdown. I completely back away from religion all together because I lost my sense of self, my sense of reality and most of all, my sense of God’s REAL love for me.
As I stated before, I am still recovering from the wreckage left behind from my COGIC/Pentacostal experience. (And that all happened several years ago). And please understand (for all the COGIG/Pentacostal supporters) I am not saying what I experienced is common place among this organization. I am simply sharing what I experienced. I NEED a sight like this one to help clean up the spiritual mess and help restore my hope and faith in the True Living God.
Melvin, keep up the good work. !!!
(MN: Thanks Orchid. When folks like you comment, it really makes the effort worthwhile. It even makes it easier to tolerate the silly little drive baaahhh commenters graciously. )
Bless you Orchids………that was a beautiful and encouraging testimony!! Melvin, so much for the oft-repeated refrain of the duped “This site doesn’t help anyone.”
hi orchids,
just wanted to let you know i hear you loud and clear, and know what you’ve been through isn’t exaggerated. i’ve been there myself! i honestly don’t remember 1 sermon being preached where the devil wasn’t mentioned! there was always the admonishment to “plead the blood”, “rebuke the devil”, and/or exclaim ” the devil is a liar!
and btw, this wasn’t cogic- this was a baptist/pentecostal congregation.
sometimes i think we attribute more to the devil than he’s liable for because we can then feel we’re somehow less responsible for our actions. but Jesus didn’t attribute our actions to satan in Matthew 5, and Mark 7:20-23. neither did paul when he picked it up in Galatians 5:19-21. we are all quite capable of doing some really foul things and acting upon our own lusts without the aid of the devil. Jeremiah 17:9, James 1:14.
anyhoo, girl, i’m just thrilled the Lord brought you out of deception and into truth. i’m rejoicing in your on going recovery-God is faithful, hallelujah!
Thank you Gary V and Mrs. Maverick.
It’s been a hard walk and a lonely one. But again, I’m glad I’ve found a place to glean truth and knowledge. And now I know I’m not the only one out here questioning the popular messages that cross the pulpits today and those that deliver them.
Bless ya’ll!
Orchids,
I truly know where you are coming from. I had a nervous and physical breakdown and i was in a mental hospital. I tried to attempt suicide. It was one of the most scariest times in my life. I was in leadership at my previous church and little did i realize that it was a spiritual abusive church. I knew there was something wrong going on and i couldn’t pinpoint it. God’s Word, prayer and caring sisters and brothers helped me. I was rejected by my former church when i came out of the hospital and now i know it was truly a blessing today. Yes it was a hard walk and a lonely one. The pastor and wife own the church and i mean own it through the offerings by the members givings. A so called debt free church, if you are in leadership, you really have no influence just do what you are told. I didn’t jump when they asked me. Found out later that money is used to finance their lifestyle,pay payments for their home,car notes, insurances,401k while the employees their get hardly anything. Wife’s signature is on the checks. This is not hearsay,i was there. There are people who have the paperwork to bring them down but they haven’t. Seems as though the husband was a deacon and he signed some legal document and he cannot bring them to court. I am saddened because their are people there who just don’t know about this attending this church.Now i am seeing pastors being exposed. This pastor started out small with a humble heart with a heart of a shepherd.
I had to be healed from anger,bitterness,rejection but i praise God that He has HEALED me! Thank you for letting me share my story. I thought i was the lone ranger in this one!
Blessings to all of you,
Roses
God bless you Roses……..and welcome aboard!!
Oh, Jesus help your people,
I had a friend who belonged to Creflo’s Church. She moved from Boston to Atlanta and got hooked up wit them. She died 2 years ago suddenly from a brain aneurysm. She left a minor son. When her family arrived in town to bury her they approached her church re: funeral arrangements and ministerial support, etc. They were told my friend couldn’t be buried from the church because she was not a regular tither. They asked for her ss# as a form of identification so they could look up her giving status. You know who came to support her? The company formerly known as Amway which is largely comprised of Christians.
Does ayone know if its true that he (MN: Had to censor this one. It’s too much hearsay. )in his New York Home where he started his Upper East Coast Pimp Factory? Perhaps this is one reason he won’t cooperate with Grassley.
I’m a living witness to this stuff NOT being hyperbole.
I thank God for your salvation regardless if it came with a sober spirit or a “mad man” it’s not how you received it, it’s that you did receive it
You said:
This seems a curious approach. It would seem that you would quote Scripture so you could have a better likelihood of being consistent with what God would have you do or say. Passah Burnett avoided Scripture and definitely showed what was in his heart. You, on the other had have avoided Scripture and have been reduced to giving me your baseless opinions. And like armpits, almost everyone has at least two - - and some of them really stink.
As I also mentioned, I expected your response to be one of slight and insult. The letter I forwarded to you was not of this nature and sought to understand not only the reason for your approach, but yet ask you to look at where the ultimate blow lands…on Christ. (MN: No. the ultimate blow lands on those who would market the saints. And in fact, they are landing a blow against Christ. They are making Christ look like a fool. They are making Christians look like fools. They are making Christianity look like a delusion. Let me guess - when a crazy blows up an abortion clinic and claims he is acting for Christ, I should simply keep my mouth shut right? After all, speaking out against a brother like that is landing a blow on Christ. )
I pray the Lord’s covering for you Bro. Jones and possibly one day you will choose not to attack all of humanity. I am a child of God as you are, therefore I am not “baseless”. (MN Your objections have not been based on Scripture. They have been based on opinions untainted by the water of the Word. They are baseless. )I would just like to see your site have a discussion where you are not demeaning and insulting those with differing opinions. (MN: Happens all the time. Take a look at the discussion with the fellow who is asking about experience vs. Scripture. Take a look at literally dozens of discussion that have taken place over the last three years. Then come back and talk to me. )
I also stated that if anyone is being corrupt, Christ will judge them and they will be held accountable. Let me ask you this…What part do you play in spreading the gospel as it applies to promoting “loving thy neighbor” ? I am covered by the blood Bro. Jones, so insult me all you want I will continue to pray for you as I do for all. Unlike your approach, I will not attack or insult you — I have sought to understand your reasoning and you have sought to be bitter and insulting. (MN: Uh…okay. My neighbors are the people being cheated and damaged by the men and women who claim to be Mend of Gawd. I love my neighbors and attempt to warn them away from the clear danger of the vipers who would take their money and shipwreck their faith. What are you doing to warn the beloved in Christ away from the dangers of these pimps? )
God Bless You.
It really is mind-boggling what passes for application of Scripture among those who are in the thrall of these pimps. “Loving thy neighbor,” grievously misapplied, does not a proper hermeneutic make, Lil’ Rev. Just like the mainline New Age High Priestesses who insist that “love” means allowing people to do whatever they want in the realm of sexuality, Pimp-Pulpit “Pastors” throw the doctrine of “love” in the faces of their detractors. As though God’s holy, perfect love, expressed in his Body (over whom Christ alone is the head, remember?) means we must never speak out against corruption in the “ministries” of those who have been given charge over God’s precious people! Do you think God just turns his head when he sees his Beloved Church, for whom his Son suffered a bloody, gruesome death, led astray by the lies of greedy men?
Don’t be fooled. The spotless Lamb of God did not humble himself, suffer unutterable agonies on the cross, bearing our every dark misdeed, so YOU could drive a nicer car! God forbid that the death of Christ should be of so little effect!
Laura,
You are a stone cold, sheep saving, pimp killin’ machine!!!!! (lol!!!)…I’ve only read two of your comments and you are spot on!…I have also favorited your blog for future review…You could possibly be a female version of GaryV!!! Keep it comin’!!!
(BTW, my mom and everyone on her side is from Louisville. I have about 60 or so relatives in that area. Glad to see you representin’ for the Bluegrass state!!!)
Solus Christus,
R4C
(MN: Isn’t her blog outstanding?! Especially since she says such nice things about P-P. Obviously she is a wise and caring lawling (almost a lawyer). And she likes “Twel