Also, you’re apparently not only a Sinless Perfectionist, you’re a KJV-Only nutcase as well. Nice combination. Like me to list the errors in translation from the KJV for ya?? Just let me know.

No translation is sanctioned or inspired by God. The AUTOGRAPHS are inspired by God. Google is your friend.

Oh,BTW, just to put on display the utter ignorance of the Word you engage in,let’s see if your claim that the Biblical writers when dealing with the false teachers/heretics only pointed to the Word without comment about their specific sin. Ready?? I’ll only use the KJV for ya too……..

1Ti 1:19 Holding faith, and a good conscience; which some having put away concerning faith have made shipwreck:
1Ti 1:20 Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme.

(GV) WELL……….my,my. Here’s Paul (a Biblical writer last I checked) pointing out the specific sin of two men. Named them and EVERYTHING. I wonder why Paul just didn’t point them to the Word without comment on their sin?? I wonder why he’s actually telling Timothy about it rather than keeping it to himself like you said and pointing to the Word alone????

But WAIT!! There’s MORE!!

1Cr 5:1 It is reported commonly [that there is] fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father’s wife.
1Cr 5:2 And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you.

(GV) What happened HERE?? Paul (even in the Inspired KJV) is pointing out a SPECIFIC SEXUAL SIN of a SPECIFIC PERSON and doing it in a letter TO THE WHOLE CHURCH!!

Are you SURE you own a Bible?? Let’s get the Apostle John into the picture, shall we??

3Jo 1:9 I wrote unto the church: but Diotrephes, who loveth to have the preeminence among them, receiveth us not.
3Jo 1:10 Wherefore, if I come, I will remember his deeds which he doeth, prating against us with malicious words: and not content therewith, neither doth he himself receive the brethren, and forbiddeth them that would, and casteth [them] out of the church.

(GV) Goodness……..putting poor Diotrephes on blast like that to the whole church. I wonder why John just didn’t point them to the Scriptures instead of also identifying the sin of a leader here?? Boy, too bad you weren’t around to set poor dumb John straight.

Of course, Paul and John didn’t have the KJV like you, you lucky boy. Oh wait……they exposed these sinners (including a sexual sinner) in the KJV too, didn’t they?? Dragged out that dirty laundry in front of the whole church too.

Of course, we ALSO have Amnon’s sexual sin, DAVID’S sexual sin, the sexual sins of Eli’s sons, etc etc etc., Peter being rebuked by Paul in front of the assembly publicly in Acts, and then there’s THIS little gem:

1Ti 5:19 Against an elder receive not an accusation, but before two or three witnesses.
1Ti 5:20 Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear.
1Ti 5:21 I charge [thee] before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, and the elect angels, that thou observe these things without preferring one before another, doing nothing by partiality.

You better start reading that KJV of yours.

Proverbs 26:17

Like one who seizes a dog by the ears is a passer-by who meddles in a quarrel not his own.

FDM, if you’d like, please hit me up sometime Brah?:

Ggreaves103@comcast.net

I can give you my cell number there, where perhaps we could discuss more-in depth/chat in person and ask you some things….Sometimes, when writing, it’s the case that perhaps what one’s saying isn’t coming out the way they intened….and sometimes, speaking up close/personal more effective. Love to chat sometime, Brah…..

What you are saying sounds nice and all, but it still fails to address the exact definitions you were given from the scriptures you have provided. You have not yet dealt with the literal meaning of the word reprove, neither can you get around the instructions that we have been given as believers…I am fully aware of the doctrine of predestination, and what I said to you about the “letting the word sum it up” (your words) was an attempt to get you to understand the fact that WE are the living epistles that are known and read of all men, and how would you expect a false teacher to be confonted and reproved unless someone who KNOWS AND UNDERSTANDS what scripture is truly saying exposes their error. No, my friend, you completely misunderstood what I was referring to. To make it simple, the word will not just jump off of the pages and suddenly alert these false preachers that they are doing wrong. The fact that they are wrong is something that they ALREADY KNOW, yet they choose to continue to spew false doctrine. You tend to confuse those who are in the body with those who are specifically opposed to the body and make a mockery of Christ and His church. I am simply stating that we are instructed on what to do in response to this. Now that you’re clear on what was expressed, care to deal with the scriptures that have been presented to you? I mean, after all, since I’m a novice and all, this means that you should be prepared to teach me something. I will certainly entertain any biblical knowledge that you are willing to share that is SPECIFIC to the subject that we are discussing…You know, the one concerning how we deal with false teachers (just in case you forgot.) By the way, the chapter of 2 Timothy that you quote also has the apostle Paul telling Timothy who left him, why they left him, what they did and how to deal with them. It’s a perfect follow up to what he’s talked about in chapter 2 and in many other places of the NT, you know, about…ahem…FALSE TEACHERS. I’m not sure if you read those parts though, because you seem to be quite adept at using part of a scripture without taking into account the complete context, then when it is plainly shown to you, you jump to another misused proof text to try and make a point. You then crave your pet point so much that you fly in the face of scripture which proves it otherwise, and is used in its proper context. Furthermore, you still attempt to use scriptures like John 12 and 1st and 2nd Peter that are talking about the non-elect and the impossibility of converting them. Newsflash FDM. ***NOONE IS TRYING TO CONVERT THE FALSE TEACHERS***. The purpose of this site and many others like it is to WARN THE SHEEP ABOUT THEM. You then accuse me of being a babe in Christ and not able to skillfully handle meat, and that I don’t read the bible that I referred you to…Well, that was expected…Some people tend to become personal when it’s the last card they have in their theological deck…The burden of proof is upon you to show me where the specific definitions that I have given you FROM SCRIPTURE do not mean what they mean, and then give me the correct context and meaning of what the apostle Paul means and says when he uses that word or passage. Up until now, you have miserably failed to do so….So I’ll wait…

Just say what God has said about them (wolves, beasts, ect), what the fruit of their ministry is, mark them, and go about your way preaching the Gospel till further notice that they’ve changed…(Romans 16:17-20).

This has been part of my experience, as well as Brother Lionel’s, and it’s been effective since simply preaching the Gospel/telling others to the Word is the Power of Salvation (Proverbs 29:18, Psalm 1, Psalm 119:8-9, Romans 1:16-18)….and simply giving them knowledge of What His word says has empowered folks to not have the mentality of delighting moreso in exposing error than simple delight in the Person of Christ (Philippians 3). The people I’m describing are those that everytime you see them, they’re always wanting to discuss how the latest minister messed up….

Honestly, I’m no longer concerned with having table-talk about what so and so did. If people are listening to them and ask me about it, I simply take them back to the Word, show them what it says, recognize that the teacher’s false and move on………

Just talking about their actions 4 kicks/laughs or to pass time may not be appropiate.

I think part of what FDM is trying to say is that when it comes to false teachers, one should simply point people back to what the Word of God says on the issue, leave it at that and move on. Specifically, when it comes to false teachers, rather than going on and saying “Can you believe how messed up so and so is?” and quoting the Word of God on the subject, just say “By their fruits you will know them” (Matthew 7), or point people to what the Word of God says and leave it at that.

(MN: But the extension of what he says is the preacher (if there should even be a preacher) should stand up on Sunday, read a portion of Scripture, and sit down. After all, saying anything after he read the Scriptures would be “adding to the Word”. We have the Word, that’s enough. We don’t need to be adding man’s wisdom to it. Phillip was adding to God’s Word. And in the Old Testament, Ezra and his crowd added to the Word when he had the Word read (Neh 8:8) and they caused them (the people) to understand the sense of the words. Maybe you’re right. We should just quote scripture with no context, no explanation. And once people hear that, they will understand. After all, the Word of God is living and active and there is absolutely no need to get in the way by trying to explain anything. )

To a good degree, I see where he’s coming from. Alot of conversations I’ve witnessed iinvolve people quoting the Word about exposing false teachers/name-calling, but simulatneously doing things such as “having a contest to see who’s the most stupid”, making bets on they’ll do next, or finding humor/delight in continually bringing up conversation about their PUBLIC actions/focusing on them (i.e. “So man, did you hear what so and so did today?)

That can also be considered another form of gossip, since gossip isn’t merely rumors or speculating about personal issues but also SENSATIONAL/TRUE facts, habitiually focusing on the details of another’s life…or casual conversation on their mess-ups

Gary V….Eph.5:13 [your version] but when anything is exposed by the light, it becomes visible.
I will try to make this short and brief because you evidently need time to study your bible (and get a King James version not the watered down version you have been using)

Who is The light referred to in Eph.???? John 1:6-10

There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the LIGHT (Jesus Christ), that all men THROUGH HIM might believe (which is the only way we are getting into heaven…THRUOGH HIM). He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light. That was the true Light, which lights every man that comes into the world (still talking about Jesus). He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.

Now above the scriptures I just gave you it says this……..John 1:1-2 says: In the beginning was THE WORD, and THE WORD was with God, and THE WORD was God. THE SAME was in the beginning with God.

So in reference to what I have said many times previously, THE LIGHT, THE WORD, WISDOM are all one-and-the-same(manifold wisdom of God); our Lord JESUS CHRIST. And we are to believe on him (THE WORD). HE makes manifest what is in the heart of man. That is why Paul says in Heb.4:12; For THE WORD of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and MARROW, AND IS A DISCERNER OF THE THOUGHTS and INTENTS OF THE HEART.

This is what he is most furious about….people thinking you can do without the word or with some of the word; that is why in Jer. 23:21-22; when he is talking about false preachers/prophets which scatter, he says this about them: I have not sent these prophets, yet they ran: I have not spoken to them, yet they prophesied. But if they had stood in my counsel, and had CAUSED MY PEOPLE TO HEAR MY WORDS, then they should have turned them from their evil way, and from the evil of their doings.

Zeph.3:1-4; Woe to her that is filthy and polluted, to the oppressing city (talking about churches)! She obeyed not THE VOICE; she received not CORRECTION; she trusted not in the LORD; she drew not near to her God. Her princes (false preachers) within her are roaring lions; her judges (false prophets) are evening wolves; they GNAW NOT THE BONES TILL THE MARROW. Her prophets are light and treacherous persons: her priests have polluted the sanctuary, they have done violence to the law.

Solomon says: (remember him the “wisest man on earth”) Prov. 30:6 ADD YOU NOT UNTO HIS WORDS, UNLESS HE REPROVE YOU, AND YOU BE FOUND A LIAR…….so you see adding anything to his word makes you a liar too and we know that’s an abomination to Him and no liar enters into heaven!!!!! (ex. Saying it is commanded of us to expose them the way you do by discussing their divorce, love children, sex scandals, etc. and not using just the word to reprove)

The Revelation of Jesus Christ 22:18-19 says: For I testify unto every man THAT HEARS THE WORDS OF THE PROPHECY OF THIS BOOK (see you have to have ears to hear which only God gives), If any man shall ADD unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: and if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. (see how important The Word of God is now?…..if not; you have been either purposed for destruction or to stumble and I am through talking about this subject with people who are unlearned and/or like to debate and twist scripture.

Sorry………I know I said I would be brief but I also said I would try

In 2 Tim. 4:2 it says: Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; REPROVE, REBUKE, exhort with all longsuffering and DOCTRINE.

I did not say not to rebuke false pastors; I said the word sums it up better. Here we see Paul saying to reprove rebuke, exhort with what? All longsuffering and DOCTRINE!!! (It’s that simple) The same thing I have been saying. In your statement Ready4Change your exact quote: “You seem to suggest that God’s word has been ineffective….” What???? I have been the one saying to use the word. Then you say again: “”Therefore if you have followed God’s wisdom and instruction, there is nothing to add to what has already been brought to light……(then you say)….Maybe since you feel like just letting the word do it; will cause them to change, why don’t you write them a letter with just scriptures on it?”(It has already been done…ex. Matt., Luke, John, Acts, etc.) You need to stop hitting the snooze button you keep contradicting yourself; either the word does it or it doesn’t (stop teaching and learn first)!!!

Also….if you would read your bible and stay out of other books you will learn like I did about this one thing……the TRUE Church was established before the world was made. Do you not know that some are predestined for hell and will never receive the mystery of the Gospel? (He has blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them. John 12:40) and some are going to stumble at the word?…….1 Peter 2:8 …and a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed. That means that apart from God you cannot even repent [2 Peter 2:25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth];….not even persuade these false preachers whether you do it by Word (like I said) or your way.

11 Take no part in the unfruitful works of darkness, but instead expose them. (I guess that verse isn’t IN your version, huh??)12 For it is shameful even to speak of the things that they do in secret. 13 But when anything is exposed by the light, it becomes visible,

This verse COMMANDS us to expose them……..all that verse you cited means is that it should not be said these things occur among Christians. It’s NOT saying don’t SPEAK of it, because it just COMMANDED us to EXPOSE IT. And again, we don’t discuss things done IN SECRET anyway,but what they PUBLICLY proclaim.

Good grief……..you’re as bad with the Word as the pimps.

Did you have to leave so soon??? I was rather enjoying the dialogue between you and GaryV…Felt like you came to a machine gun fight with a butterknife huh???…Don’t worry, it happens to the best of us…Seems you took the path of least resistance and did what most do when they don’t really have scripture to back their position…an all out retreat…I have to remind you that one of the great things about this site is that we can passionately debate about what is uniquely essential to us individually, yet we can agree to disagree on issues that are non-essential to the body of Christ at-large…So I admire your efforts, but please be sure to bring rightly divided scripture when you come to the table…For instance, I thought it strange that you would choose to disagree with GaryV, bring up Paul’s words as though they would prove that GV’s assertions were wrong, and then capitalize the very words that make Gary’s point…Huh??? You cannot honestly do a thorough research of this site and not find SCRIPTURE (rightly divided of course), REPROOF, CORRECTION, REBUKE or DOCTRINE. What seems to be your point? I had really deemed you to be genuinely concerned with a high view of scripture (and I still do), but you simply butchered the whole idea behind what the apostle is saying in Ephesians 5. I won’t make this exhaustive, but let’s backtrack a few verses so that you can get a good understanding of this. 3: “But fornication, and all uncleanness or covetousness, let it not once be named among you, as becometh saints.” (If this is to the saints, what do you think God’s expectation is of those who profess to lead saints in worship, prayer, praise, bible study and lifestyle example?) 5. “For this ye know that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolator, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Chris and God.” (Investigate how many of these so called “preachers” fall into this category. Everyone deals with issues of sin and repentance, but when they fail to acknowledge what is known publicly, yet still claim to be bearers of the gospel, there is truly something wrong, don’t you think? How can you not see that? Do you know these same people preach false gospel from this same book of Ephesians yet fulfill this same passage in their personal life and walk? If they tried to preach from it, you know they read it. Please, reach over, turn off your alarm clock and stop hitting the snooze button. It’s time to wake up.) 6: “Let no man decieve you with vain words…” (How do you suppose a believer is supposed to do this, by “letting the word sum it up better”? You seem to suggest that God’s word has been ineffective, since these pimps recieved the same “CORRECTION” that you highlighted and yet still have no desire to change. If he says “let” no man decieve you, then there is a responsibility to the believer, which we will see in a moment.) 7: “Be not ye therefore partakers with them.” (Got it.) 8: “…walk as children of light.” (Getting closer.) 11: “…have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness..” (Almost there…) “but rather REPROVE them.” (Bingo!!!! Let’s see…now did you want that in Hebrew, or Greek? How about both? Hebrew: Yakach - judge, rebuke, correct, prove, chasten, argue, convict, chide, show reason, reason with, decide, adjudge. Greek: Elegcho - to convict, refute, generally with a suggestion of SHAME of the person convicted, bring to the light, expose, FIND FAULT WITH, correct, BY SPOKEN WORD, to REPREHEND SEVERELY, chide, admonish, TO CALL TO ACCOUNT, SHOW ONE HIS FAULT, DEMAND AN EXPLANATION, BY DEED, to chasten, to PUNISH. What was your definition again?…Oh, I forgot, you didn’t use that scripture…Sorry…I would elaborate, but, errrrrr….ummmm…I think you get the picture…) 12: “For it is a shame to even speak of those things which are done of them in secret.” (Now we get to the verse that you so irresponsibly slaughtered. In light of what we have learned about our reaction to false teachers in the previous verses, common sense tells us that if we have already PUBLICLY and VERBALLY given a BIBLICAL response to their PUBLIC and VERBAL UNBIBLICAL response, then there is no more to be said. Therefore if you have followed God’s wisdom and instruction, there is nothing to add to what has already been brought to light…Speaking of light…”Wherefore he saith, Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light.” (verse 14) Cross reference this with Matthew 5:13-15, and something just might click for you. But if not, oh well…Maybe since you feel like just letting the word do it will cause them to change, why don’t you write them a letter with just scriptures on it?…I’m guessing it will probably end up in the same place those mail-in prayer requests go after they take out the money and pretend to “intercede” for the people…right in the shredder…False teachers have been around for centuries, and the instructions by which to deal with them have not yet changed, but perhaps you can do better…ummmmm….Good luck with that…

Have you EVER told a lie since you were Born Again??

Have you EVER stolen?? Even just by not giving 100% effort 100% of the time at your job since you were Born Again??

Have you ever, for even a nanosecond, not loved God with all your heart, mind, soul and strength since you were Born Again??

Have you always loved everyone perfectly since you were Born Again??

Have you ever uttered a word that you shouldn’t have since you were Born Again??

I believe you quoted John. Why not quote ALL of John??

1Jo 1:8 If WE (including John) say that WE have no sin, WE deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in US.
1Jo 1:9 If WE confess OUR sins, he is faithful and just to forgive US OUR sins, and to cleanse US from all unrighteousness.
1Jo 1:10 If WE say that WE have not sinned, WE make him a liar, and his word is not in US.

Please answer the above questions.If you tell us that you HAVE done those things, your entire argument fails.If you try to tell us that you have NEVER done ANY of those things since you were Born Again, then your argument fails again because you are either a liar or deceived.

(MN: So FDM, are you saying you don’t sin? At all? )

NOTHING we do here is gossip. You may want to avail yourself of a Websters. NOTHING we write here is gossip. What is written here are the very words and actions of the pimps themselves. Not their secret sins, not speculation about their secret sins. We write about what is in the public record, and it follows the command that leaders who sin are to be held PUBLICLY accountable.

Again, perhaps you’d be happier somewhere else?? Please go on and create the site as you think it should be elsewhere, and be sure to let us know when you’ve done it.

As has been said before so well……..I like what we’re doing better than what you’re NOT doing. Get off your posterior and do something yourself,then come back and wag your finger. Until then, it’s all hot air (and thus far no Biblical content).

I’ll take Paul’s word,thank you.

1 Timothy 5 clearly lays out the moral qualifications for ministry, and if we are making a case to the sheeple that their favorite “minister” is disqualified, their failure to meet the standard morally is just as Biblical a reason for their rejection as their false doctrine.

We don’t involve ourselves in gossip. Everything here is either public record or information from their own lips. The moral standard was put in the Bible for the express purpose of giving the church a rule against which to measure those who claim leadership roles. We are using it precisely as it is intended to be used.

Remember, we aren’t here convincing ourselves that these goofs are disqualified, we are trying to convince the duped. And the duped need oftentimes to be hit with overwhelming evidence.

I provided multiple examples and precepts that prove that the Bible NEVER only taught Truth but ALSO (from cover to cover) confronted false teachers/prophets PERSONALLY.

Now………please provide us with the timeline of progressive revelation that justifies your insistence that we no longer have to do as the Bible teaches by precept and example regarding false teachers. Please use any and all exegetical tools at your disposal to show us any time in the Bible where what you suggest ever actually occurred.TIC TOC.

We shall require two or three witnesses in Scripture IN CONTEXT that reveal that God has changed the pattern of Scripture so that it is no longer binding upon us to follow the Bible’s teaching in this area. Where did this phantom switch occur where we are told to merely teach the Truth and not use that same Truth as well to confront false teachers and warn the sheep (as the Bible instructs from cover to cover)??

If this clear Biblical instruction no longer applies, can you tell us how and when this occurred?? And then please tell us how we can tell which OTHER parts of the Bible no longer apply as well, since you have already stated that Apostolic writings can be disallowed just because you say so.

Oh wait………I remember. The Holy Spirit is all you need for teaching. Except that since you just tossed out the entire New Testament when you told us to disregard the Apostle’s teaching, you just tossed out the Holy Spirit’s teaching as well, since He is the Author of the Bible.

So,how does the Holy Spirit teach you now?? Direct revelation?? Morse Code tapped out on the top of your tin-foil beanie?? How do you TEST ALL THINGS when you “receive” instructions now that you feel free to disregard Apostolic instruction?? Naturally, I can inundate you with precepts and examples from the OT as well since you feel no obligation to retain the Apostolic teaching and examples. Just let me know.

BTW, are you saved?? How do you know?? Because I am now going to follow your example and insist that we disregard the Apostolic teaching and example in THIS area too. By what authority you ask?? Why, by the same authority you exercised when you told us we no longer have to consider the Apostolic teachings in the area of confronting false teachers of course.

After that we can take this new authority and disregard anything the Holy Spirit says in the Old Testament too!! Cuz I guess since we can just throw out anything the Bible says through the Apostles about false teachers on your authority, everything else is fair game since it’s GOD speaking through the Apostles to begin with. So since we’ve already made the leap into disregarding God’s teaching through the Apostles, we can follow the logical progression and disregard everything that the Holy Spirit said through the Prophets too.

And since we arbitrarily decided that we can ignore the Holy Spirit when it comes to false teachers with absolutely no Biblical justification, why stop at disregarding just the Holy Spirit’s teaching on how to deal with false teachers?? Why not disregard it in the area of sex too?? That way we can all get our FREAK on!!!

Oh wait,let’s not get ahead of ourselves. FIRST you have to show us the Scriptural justification you employed to free us from the Holy Spirit’s Apostolic teachings on confronting false teachers.

Of course, that would be despite the fact that the Holy Spirit through the Apostles commanded men who were NOT Apostles to follow the Apostolic example in regard to false teachers (like Timothy, Titus, the Corinthian church, the Galatian church, the Roman church, those addressed by Jude, etc etc, etc).

I look forward to your response.

But,you claim you want to follow the Bible. Have I got that right??

Oh, BTW, I’m going to tell the congregation on Sunday to follow the Bible too……. except the parts written by or about God. I could be the next Joel Osteen.