Ready4change posted this comment several days ago. Rather than put it out as a comment, I decided to make it a part of a posting, to insure that all see it and that it not too quickly drop off the comment list to the right.
Ready4Change is apparently standing at a fork in the road. I thought it would be good for the rest of you to hear what he has to say and what he is thinking. Not everyone in Oneness is forever stuck there. And not everyone in Oneness is blind. R4C really highlights the fact that walking in faith is a lot more than paying your tithes instead of your rent and believing God will work a miracle to keep you in your apartment.
He is asking for our comments and advice. Read his comment, think about it (yes, pray as well) and see if you can offer any useful advice.
Several things:
1. If your comment involves threats of hell if he turns from Oneness, I’m not going to post it.
2. If you comment involves threats of hell if he fails to turn to a Trinitarian view, I’m not going to post it.
3. If your comment is simply a meandering comment with no real point, I’m not going to post it.
4. If your comments dismiss his struggles as trivial, I’m not going to post them.
In other words, if you don’t have anything useful to say, then don’t feel like you have to say something anyway. I have my thoughts and opinions on his predicament, but I would rather provide you folks with a forum to help him. After all, it’s not about me and how smart I am. Granted I know 87% of everything, but that doesn’t mean I have to speak 87% of the time. Eighty-six percent of the time will do just fine.
And if he is interested, I can share his e-mail address with those of you who ask.
Ready4change said:
Hello All,
This is my first posting, as I am fairly new to this site. I have been just reading the posts and information that has been provided, and I would like to say that I have been thoroughly blessed, uplifted, enlightened, informed and challenged by it’s content. Much thanks and gratitude to you, brother Melvin, for allowing the Lord to use you in such a manner.
Now I’d like to get to the heart of the matter at hand. I apologize in advance for the length of this post, I just have so many questions and issues to discuss and address. If my questions can only be answered and dialogue be continued by other means, please let me know and I will happily oblige.
This post is directed to anyone on the site who wishes to share or comment, but specifically to Melvin, GaryV, Mr. Woods and Independent Conservative. Not that I have any particular preference, but it just seems as though these gentlemen have been the major posters and have given the most detailed information when someone has a statement or question.
Before I begin, I feel the urge to unveil a pertinent piece of information. I am a Oneness believer. Now, before all of you start wailing and rending your clothes (smile…), hear me out. (MN: This guy’s funny! )In no way, shape or form am I here to debate theological issues, baptism, Trinity vs. Oneness or anything like that. In fact, the very reason I am posting here is because I have begun to question my own theological understanding and experiences concerning these issues. I am here to gain wisdom and insight pertaining to what I believe will be a very difficult and burdensome, yet joyful transition for my family and I. So, Melvin, I hope you’re still reading, because I seem to recall that in one of your posts you mentioned that if one of the essential tenets of the doctrine (Trinity in this case) is not agreed upon, then that’s when you part company. I would hate for that to happen, because I’m really looking forward to receiving some edifying responses.
Now that all of the preliminaries are out of the way, I’ll begin. For my 32 years of existence, I have been a Oneness Apostolic Pentecostal. The church I grew up in believed in Jesus-name baptism, oneness, tongues as evidence of the infilling of the Holy Ghost, etc. Other than knowing Acts 2:38, John 3:16 and a few other passages of scripture, I didn’t know much of anything the bible teaches. I don’t really know if this was my own fault, the fault of those teaching me, or just God’s divine will and purpose, I just know that this is how it was. We would still fellowship with churches of different religious beliefs and denominational affiliations. COGIC, Lutheran, Baptist, Full Gospel and the like.
The nature of our services was that of shouting, dancing, speaking in tongues, excitable preaching (whooping as we call it), exorcisms (deliverance, casting out devils), laying on of hands, prophecy, being slain in the spirit and so on. Most of our music and worship style for as long as I could remember has been contemporary in nature, with a predominately black gospel choir group, R&B flavor that many on this site are familiar with, closely associated with what you hear on Black inspirational gospel stations today. I sang in the choir and was a major participant in all church activities and functions. I can’t speak for the history of the church prior to my rearing, but I don’t ever remember any emphasis on clothes, jewelry, pants (for women), make-up (women) or specific restriction from certain places of entertainment being strictly enforced or anything like that.
As far as holiness and biblically centered living was concerned, most just kind of did what they felt they wanted to do (me included) or just did things according to what they interpreted the scriptures to mean. Bottom line, my mind cannot recollect grabbing hold of any solid, sound biblical teaching on any particular subject, for whatever reason. This is the church that my great uncle (by marriage) was the founder and pastor of. Since I brought up founders and pastors, maybe I should pause here and give some important historical data about my family and it’s association with Oneness Pentecostalism. I’ve already stated that I’ve been affiliated with it all of my life. I am third generation Oneness.
My dad has been a oneness preacher for close to 40 years, and a oneness believer for longer than that. His father was a oneness believer. My cousin is now the pastor of the church that I grew up in. He is the son of my great uncle, the previous founder and pastor who has since died. On my dad’s side of the family alone, there are 4 oneness churches I know of that are founded and/or pastored by our family members. This does not include the church that I grew up in. Altogether, there are surely dozens and maybe hundreds of people on my dad’s side alone that are oneness believers/ministers/members. That’s just my dad’s side.
My mom has been a oneness believer/member for over 50 years (virtually all of her life). Her parents (my grandparents) are also a part of this movement. On my mom’s side of the family, there are literally dozens, if not scores of oneness believers in our family. As for my wife, she was raised catholic, but received her “apostolic experience” at the same time that her mom, dad, sister and brother did. This event spans back nearly 20 years. I only brought all of that up to let you know how deeply rooted into this way of thinking and theology that I am in, and to give you a better picture of what I am to discuss in the subsequent paragraphs.
Now, back to my history. At the age of 19, I went off to join the military (which I am still a part of). After a couple of years of being in a “backslidden condition” (as much of my family would describe it) while attending basic training, schools and overseas duty, I returned to the states and joined a church of “like faith” at my new duty station. This oneness church professed the same doctrine as all the others, with a few nuances. What the church I described above lacked in “standards”, this church thrived upon. They emphasized holiness standards, appearance, involvement in all of the believer’s life activities, like where you went, who you associated with, where to go, where not to go, what to watch on television, etc.
Although still steeped into the Oneness theology, this pastor did propagate reading and studying the scriptures, but only on a few conditions. One, you don’t get to interpret what you read; only I do. (MN: Red Flag) Two, only read the scriptures that I direct you to study. Three, you shouldn’t disagree with my interpretation; because what I get I get straight from God, and if you do, you speak against…well…you know the rest.
I was a member of this ministry for 7 years, during which time my wonderful wife and beautiful children and I became a family. From there, I got orders to where I am now and joined yet another Apostolic Oneness church (I’ll talk about this church later). This current church is one that I have been a member of now for 4 years. Now I suppose that I can get into what Shakespeare would call “the rub”. During the time that I have been stationed at the place where I am now, I’ve really been searching and considering all that we (as apostolics) do, including baptism, laying on of hands for healing and miracles, tongues, lifestyle and just doctrinal beliefs period. I just discovered this site a couple of months ago, but I’m finding that much of what I’ve come to believe and understand matches what I’ve discovered on these amazing posts and threads.
Believe me when I tell you, I am at the brink of walking in this new, and for me uncharted, territory. However, if I could point out just one major factor in my hesitation, it would be one word. Fear. I realize that I must let faith replace that, and I understand what the scriptures teach concerning what the outlook and state of mind a believer should possess concerning challenges (2 Timothy 1:7). Nevertheless, there are still resignations that reside in me because I completely understand the consequences, and I know things may get worse before they get better (1 Peter 5:10). Right now I am in sincere prayer and dependence upon God to help with the issues I’ve just discussed in addition to the ones I will bring up in just a moment. Before I do that, let me just reiterate how much of a blessing it has been to come across such a group of people as you all are. Now I’ll try to lay out my concerns as systematically as possible so that those who wish to respond may have a clear understanding.
CULTURAL ISSUES
I love listening to expository teaching and preaching on the bible radio station that we have here and at www.oneplace.com. And since I’m plugging, let me say that I also enjoy the excellent articles and study helps over at www.studylight.org. (Smile…) Christ uplifts my soul, enriches my heart and catapults my faith in him through the teaching/preaching gifts of people like McArthur, Piper, Chip Ingram, Dr. Tony Evans, Ravi Zacharias, Alistair Begg, James McDonald (Walk in the Word), the late Dr. J. Vernon McGhee, Chuck Swindoll, David Jeremiah and others. As I state that, you may be surprised to learn that I come from the wild, wild world of Charismania (is that a word???), which, to say the least, is completely at the other end of the cultural spectrum. As amped-up and supercharged as some of the things we do appear to be, there are a few elements that I have enjoyed, largely because I feel that they are a part of who I am. I’m referring to certain styles of worship and praise. And yes, even though I can appreciate the musical arrangement and accompaniment of some of these songs, I am careful to note the importance of the lyrical content. Don’t get me wrong; I believe I could be just as comfortable in a setting where we embrace the psalms, spiritual songs and hymnals like “Eternal Father, Strong to Save”. I guess what I’m essentially asking is this. Is there a way to make the two meet? Furthermore, do I sacrifice the joy of my own ethnicity and uniqueness under the banner of attempting to be the picture of perfection and accuracy in my expression of worship to God? Lastly, what bearing does the gospel have on, and to what extent should ministry be geared to the problems and dilemmas of the poor, destitute, crime infested communities similar to the one I grew up in (specifically communities populated by blacks)? Do I not have a duty of empathy to them? By embracing doctrine that is right now exclusively practiced among my white brothers and sisters, have I sold my communities out? I’m just being real and searching for understanding on this matter. Just to let you know, I did read the treatise on J & T (can’t remember which link that was), and I was just wondering if you guys could elaborate more on that (hint, Independent Conservative…smile…).
MY BOO (I was calling her this way before the song came out)
I’ve read a couple of testimonies on here about some people who were in similar predicaments, and I’ve seen how it has affected your marriages. Now, I was inclined to make a decision (change churches) like this a couple of times in the last 2 years or so, but due to how I think it would have had an impact on my wife and her belief system, I have refrained from making a move. This is not to say that I am incapable or indecisive. I’m just trying to be as considerate, patient, understanding and loving as possible because I don’t want her to be even more confused.
Remember, she has come from a catholic upbringing to oneness. I think to make a shift too suddenly or quickly into perhaps a reformed perspective might do more harm than good. This is not so much because I want to preserve our marriage (which I do), but more along the lines of not giving her too much too fast, where she becomes completely disgusted with God and Christ and everything else about Christianity.
I know that eventually these things will have to surface and come to a head, I’m just continually praying and seeking the wisdom of Christ in this matter. Could some of you share your experiences or insight into what may have helped you in this process? Even though (as I described earlier) my whole family is in this doctrine, all of that would be cancelled out and I would just feel so much better if my wife was of full understanding with me on this.
TRINITY VS. ONENESS
The more I study and meditate upon the scriptures that show a distinction between the personhood of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, the greater my understanding of the Trinity becomes, and the more I am convinced that it, as well as salvation and justification by faith alone (and other elements of the faith contrary to my own theological perspectives) are within reason, doctrinally sound and biblically correct. But what say you concerning the many reasoned arguments for oneness that I have used, and many others still use? Look here.
For the record, I can truly say that the opening of my eyes to these truths have to be purely a work of the Holy Spirit, because contrary to my approach of debating with Trinitarians in the mall, parking lot and other places, not one person has approached me directly and tried to persuade or convince me of anything. From the link that I posted, it seems that there is as much information about the Oneness doctrine as there is about the Trinity on the web. I must confess that I have not read all of it, but I will. However, you may be asking yourself, “What made you begin to see the Trinitarian concept”? Well, it was not even all of the theological descriptions that I have read about it. It’s really quite simple. Love. When I thought of how much of an example God shows us with the love He has for His Son, it unveiled a whole new meaning of the Godhead for me. This expression of love comes from the 17th chapter of St. John, but specifically these verses:
24Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.
25O righteous Father, the world hath not known thee: but I have known thee, and these have known that thou hast sent me.
26And I have declared unto them thy name, and will declare it: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them.
I read this and I thought, what a relationship!! As for the links that are posted above, looks like it might be a great job for BlackandReformed or BlackTheologian. At any rate, please share your thoughts on it.
NOTHING WRONG, IS IT?
I will now express to you the conundrum that probably makes this situation more difficult for me than others. There is a reason why I have not discussed the atmosphere and surroundings of the oneness church that I am currently affiliated with. I was saving it until now, because I felt this was an appropriate place to mention it. Enter our current church, which again believes in oneness, Jesus-name baptism, tongues for salvation, tithing (sorry IC), women pastors, etc. However, there are not legalistic standards, rules, and regulations and at no time has the pastor stated that only “apostolics” will go to heaven. In bible study we explore original language studies (Hebrew and Greek), thoughts are shared and accepted for discussion, and our pastor is now introducing the congregation to the doctrine of eternal security for the believer, which is uncharacteristic of many oneness churches, considering that the major consensus among those in the movement is that one can lose their salvation after attaining it.
My question is this. How do you break away when the pastor is NOT a money-hungry pimp, impatient, dogmatic, and hypocritical and you just downright have a pretty good relationship with him? In fact, he listens to and enjoys many of the exact same fundamental teachers/preachers that I mentioned earlier. Some of the information he has exposed me to was one of the things that caused me to think critically about doctrine and theology (in a positive way). His whole premise is that if he is in error, he would rather error on the side of love than judgment.
I went into his office to discuss this the last time that I pondered this decision, and what kept me hanging around was his handling of the matter. He said he totally understood what I was saying, and that if I felt I needed to go I would be in his prayers. Before I left the office, he requested that I stick around for a while and give things a chance. I did, and some two years later (off and on, but now more than ever), God is still dealing with my heart.
What makes it tough is how open-minded I know this pastor to be, and I completely understand and have observed his concern for the saints as well as his character and demeanor among them. Even with that said I highly doubt he would be willing to part with oneness doctrine and theology, as well as the organization to which he has belonged for over 30 years (organization shall remain nameless). What is interesting is that he came to the oneness understanding from a Baptist background. Any of your thoughts on this would be greatly appreciated.
In closing, I suppose that one of my greatest concerns is that I barely know or are even close to non-apostolic believers. All of my friends, family and many that I would even consider associates are oneness-apostolic. The few that I am friends with and know who are not still come from a heavily influenced charismatic background that exhibits much of the madness that has already been widely discussed (including WOF teaching like name-it-and-claim-it-blab-it-and-grab-it-hatch-it-and-snatch-it-reel-it-and-steal-it-I’m-comin’-out-I’ll-never-be-broke-another-day-in-my-life-I’m-god’s-millionairre type stuff). So, brethren (and sisters), if you do nothing else, pray for the resolve, strength, courage and wisdom of God upon my life as I face this. It would be much appreciated. God bless you all.
P.S. Believe it or not, I left out so many more details, due to the post already being extremely lengthy (sorry about that). So, if you’d like to correspond with me further, I can be reached at the following email address: anointed2servejc@hotmail.com
Thanks again, and may God richly bless and keep you as you continue to CONTEND FOR THE FAITH!!!! (Jude 1:3)
So, there you go.
Brother, the thing I suggest is that you just tell people where you are at, with discretion. Talk to your pastor, and let him defend his position against the Trinity. I find that people who take unscriptural positions end up denying scripture somewhere in the process of making their case. That is the surest way to discern their grasp of the truth. It may take a awhile and a lot of talking.
I follow a messianic mailing list and the oneness position is very popular there. One guy on the list is traveling the same road that you are, except he’s going in the opposite direction. He is currently Catholic as far as I can tell. He began a series of posts about the ‘unbiblical doctrine’ of the trinity. He said it is a ’shibboleth’ of orthodoxy. Now that word shibboleth means ‘torrent’ in case you don’t know. It refers to something that divides.
He says that every doctrine ought to be entirely logical and expalinable in human terms. I agree with that for the most part, but the Bible says that God is supernatural. I don’t know all there is to know about natural things, and I sure don’t know much about supernatural things. And logic is dependant upon knowledge. The funny thing is that I can’t get him to concede to that. He won’t acknowledge that we’re told that some of God’s truth is a mystery. I refered him to 1Co 13:12-13 where Paul tells us that we don’t know even as we are known, but this man won’t consider that at all. That borther goes on and on using many words to state his position, but he won’t disengage his ‘mouth’ long enough to consider one or two simple questions. That brother proves himself to be the expert on torrents!
Godspeed, brother.
Dear ready,
This is a late addition to this thread, but I hope can share some of my story with you. I was a member of the Assemblies of God for over ten years, and over a period of time began to see flaws in the way we did things. (one of the drawbacks of being a pentecostal is that so much is based on feelings) The A/G is trinitarian, but has a close relationship with non-trinitarian churches, as they share some of the same history. (Azuza St. and so on) To make a long story short, when I began to question some things, and evaluate things in light of God’s word, I was blacklisted. Although I was once one of the youngest Senior Pastors in the State of Indiana, (began at age 29) I was sent to a small country church (where they didn’t take a white man with an African American wife too well) and sent to die. The church dried up quickly, and when I asked for help, I was told I didn’t “have a future in ministry.” The bottom line is…as you are on a quest for your faith, I want to encourage you. Things have worked out great for me. I am a much different preacher now. I used to build my messages on soliciting emotions. Now I preach expository sermons based on the Word of God. I joined a small denomination called the General Baptist Fellowship, and I am pastoring a church in my hometown. (New Albany IN) All I am trying to say is that the grass IS greener on the other side. Good folks like Melvin and others are here to support you. It is hard to face when all you’ve known all your life turns out to be not quite what you have thought. For my part, I applaud you for having the courage to start the process.
Dear Searcher, I was there-lost and searching. I heard all the foolishness from the pulpit and thought it was right. What saved me was daily reading and studing the scriptures. I keep a dictonary, concordance, bible commentary, expositary, and more than one version of the bible at all times. The old KJ is my foundation, and this is all that I have used in quite some years. Some Christian books are too fluffy, lean to far to the left or to the right. Stick with the script and don’t expect people to agree with you. I have not met many people that accept the Word for what it says and not tailor it to fit their current belief. The Holy Spirit is faithful and will lead into Truth/Jesus. Be encouraged, keep your eyes on Him Who loves you so.
Lady D.
Ms Lady D put on the whole armor of God. I admire that. Just what we need to do.
Ready4Change,
My wife is from a Oneness background not much different from yours. Her entire family is Oneness; the men are almost all preachers and deacons, and the women are largely all missionaries, evangelists, deacon’s wives and elder’s wives. I had never even heard of a “Jesus-Only” doctrine until I met her.
When we were first married, she would ask me certain questions about the things her family had taught her. I can honestly say that I never once told her that they were wrong. I simply encouraged her to read the bible for herself. Once she did that, the truth became apparent to her. I am sure that God will do the same for your wife.
I will post more regarding your other questions when I have a bit more time.
R4C,
Reading your post was like reading the last year of my life. I was brought up Baptist but spent 4 years in the Oneness Apostolic Doctrine- chock full of legalistic doctrine and unchallenged authority from the pulpit. Being that I held a title in this church, I found myself being “sat down” numerous times when I “dared” to ask questions of the pastor in reference to scriptures and in particular the oneness doctrine. I
n fact when I asked a question about the baptism of Jesus and the presence of “a Trinity” in the scriptures- I was told that I was being rebellious and if I didn’t want to accept “the truth” then I would be turned over to a reprobate mind, etc. Now understand me- I do not say any of this to bash my old church- this is just to give you an idea of the type of environment I was in. How did I end up there? The Army stationed me at a post in Oklahoma and then I deployed to Iraq.
While I was in Iraq, (I too was in a “backslidden condition”) I met some Soldiers who were oneness apostolic. Considering, I knew very little about biblical doctrine- only that I loved God and believed in Jesus Christ, they convinced me that because I had not been baptized in Jesus’ name and I did not speak in tongues I wasn’t saved. I believed them- even though I could not make all the scriptures I read line up with this theology. Fast forward to the Oklahoma church- I began to ask questions- was “sat down” and openly rebuked, and eventually the Army (God’s will) moved me from that state to a place where I could be taught straight Bible vs legalism and personal opinion.
R4C- if there is anything I can identify with in your post more than anything else is that I had tremendous fear of leaving that church and that way of thinking. I must admit that even today- I am sometimes fearful of running into someone from that church and explaining why I am no longer oneness. However, the courage and strength to leave that church, that theology, that condemnation comes from one thing and one thing only- the truth of the scriptures.
Once I realized that my faith alone in Jesus Christ saved me from eternal death and gave me new life in Christ (Romans 10:9-10) then I began to experience the liberty in Christ that we have once we believe in Him (Romans 8). It’s hard to keep a man in prison, if he is truly innocent, but it is virtually impossible to keep one in prison if they have the keys to open their cell and leave the jail entirely.
By studying the scriptures and praying that God open my eyes and ears- he freed me from the bondage of that thinking and there is no way I can ever go back to that. I love the people at my old church- they were my family- my only family for 4 years…but I love God and the truth of His Word more.
God bless you and your family R4C- it will not be easy to transition (if and when you do) but I promise you- your fear and burdens will be lifted, your faith will be stronger, and God- not man- will be your guide.
Peace and blessings.
Hi Ready4Change!!
First I would like to say two things.
1) Thank you SO much for your service to America. I deeply respect you for that.
2) You express yourself beautifully.
OKAY…….you’ve posted quite a series of conundrums
. First I would like to say that your fear of such a radical change is understandable. But really,you must look at what brought you to this point to have those fears allayed.
You mentioned that you did not come to search outside the Oneness doctrine because of anyone who confronted you or tried to persuade you. That’s fantastic, because it’s purely a work of God in your heart. In light of that God has some wonderful Words for you brother.
Phl 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform [it] until the day of Jesus Christ:
God began it, God will complete it. He didn’t need your help to start it, He does not need your help to finish it.
One thing I’ve learned over the years that has helped me TREMENDOUSLY when facing fearful situations is this……I need to put my faith in GOD’S ABILITY TO GET ME WHERE HE WANTS ME TO GO instead of putting my faith in MY ABILITY TO FOLLOW HIM.
Fear is the result of misplaced faith more often than no faith at all. Did He get you THIS far?? How much help did He need from YOU to do it??
When the Bible mentions being “led”by the Spirit,we assume that means we are to follow. That is NOT the sense of the Greek Word.
Luk 4:1 ¶ And Jesus being full of the Holy Ghost returned from Jordan, and was LED by the Spirit into the wilderness,
Rom 8:14 For as many as are LED by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
The Words here translated “led” do NOT mean that you are to follow the Spirit like you’re groping in a dark room HOPING you can discern the path. Nope. Here is the definition.
1) to lead, TAKE WITH one
a) to lead by laying hold of, and this way to bring to the point of destination: of an animal
The word picture in the Greek is not that the Spirit is up ahead of you, and you are behind trying to keep up. It is the picture of a shepherd “LAYING HOLD OF YOU” and carrying you to the destination like a lamb.
God got you here by CARRYING YOU in His arms. You didn’t struggle to get here. You weren’t convinced by men. You didn’t stumble along trying to keep up. HE CARRIED you like the helpless lamb you are (as in fact we all are).
How can you fear when He is carrying you, and the certainty of getting you where He wants you to go rests upon Him Who never fails??
The other issue with your wife rests in exactly the same verses. Trust Him to carry her as well, since He is even more concerned than you that your family be preserved.
As for the worship issues, they are peripheral. As Reformed as I am, I’ve done my share of shouting. Musical styles and whether you raise hands and whether you’re exuberant in praise are nothing to divide over. God loves all manner of praise and worship as long as the heart is turned toward Him. We only mention the excesses and the concentration on form over substance here. We don’t dissuade from genuine worship in its many manifestations, just the unBiblical “slaying in the Spirit” and unruly tongues used outside of Scriptural constraints. Worship in the manner in which you can best glorify God.
The specific questions of the Trinity vs Oneness are addressed throughout the web as you’ve seen. Here is an excellent site that will respond to your specific questions if the articles seem insufficient.
http://www.ondoctrine.com/
I can’t recommend many teachers to you since you’ve been CARRIED ALONG (wink) by God to these excellent men you mentioned. If you have an iPod I recommend “The White Horse Inn” by Mike Horton.
Your church situation is sticky. Your pastor sounds as if he’s a good pastor. Again,trust God to carry you where He wants you to go. I major on that because I believe in God’s Providence and Sovereignty. That casts out fear and uncertainty like nothing else, and in a situation with as many tentacles as yours that is your primary need.
Don’t worry about which direction to go……….believe in the One Who has promised to complete the good work in you, and Who has carried you to this point, and has sworn to carry you to your destination.
Mel,you can give this brother my email if he wants it.
garyv, can you please be my pastor??!! WOW
Bless you Pam!! I appreciate the sentiment. However, I will let the Lord Himself answer you:
Mat 20:22 But Jesus answered and said, Ye know not what ye ask.
Brother, how nice to hear of your searching for biblical doctrine apart from only what preachers in oneness have told you. Let me say that I am a Southern Baptist Bible teacher, and most doctrine that I have come to understand has come directly from God through my personal study of the Scriptures. There certainly are some differentiations in lesser beliefs that I have in contrast with the paster at my church, but they are minor and simply a difference of understanding of the Scriptures. Let me be the first to say that I don’t think that only Baptists are saved, because the Aposlte Paul spent a majority of the N.T. addressing those who he addressed as “brothers in Christ” about their misunderstanding of the doctrines of God. So I believe that there are many Christians who do not fully understand all the doctrines of God correctly, myself included. I by no means look upon all those who adhears to the oneness doctrines to be unsaved. However, one thing is for sure…it is only by faith through grace that we are saved…nothing else.
Having said that, I believe that those who seek shall find, as is happening in your case. The Bible has much to say about sound doctrine, and how vital it is in the life of a believer. There are warnings in the Bible about being tossed to and fro by every wind of doctrine, and that we should be mature believers, rightly dividing the word of truth. One thing I’ve alwasy told my class is this: don’t just beleive me because I’m your teacher…test eveything I say against the Scriptures. God give us the ability to understand and interpret the Scriptures through the Holy Spirit, because we have the mind of Christ.
Concerning your current situation, I can only imaging how tough it may be to consider leaving a church where you have familiarity and security, but you must test everything against the Scriptures. If your wife will be reserved about leaving, you must speak with her about why you feel the way you feel, and share the Scriptures with her that have led you to the truth that you are coming to understand, which the Scriptures contain. You must bathe your situation in prayer and allow the Holy Spirit to lead you to where He wants you to go. God has a purpose within the whole Body of Christ, and within each individual Body. God will bring you to where He desires you to be. If you are His, He will never leave you nor forsake you.
Perhaps you could speak with your pastor concerning the things you are dealing with. He seems like he is differnt from many oneness pastors. Even so, when you speak to him, you cannot allow him to dominate the conversation or tell you that he is the annointed one upon whom you should listen. Jesus said that the Holy Spirit will teach us all things. God said in Jeremiah 31, “Behold the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant…but this is the covenant that I will make…says the Lord: I will put My law in their minds, and write it upon their hearts…No more shall every man teach his neighbor, saying ‘know the Lord,’ for they all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them.” This means that you do not have to interpret Scripture just based on someone who claims holy annointing. In the N.T., we are all called a priesthood of believers, meaning we are all equal. Yes, a pastor has charge over the flock that the Lord give him, but he is not Lord over that flock. Only Jesus is Lord over the flock. Continue to read and study the Scriptures, brother, continue to pray, and God will lead you exactly where he wants you. God bless.
Greetings Ready4Change,
It was heart-warming to read your posting and to sense (what I believe to be) a Spirit-led desire to draw closer to God.
You elegantly spoke of the inner turmoil you are experiencing, and in doing so you have and will touch the lives of those who read your post and have or are experiencing similar issues. May God bless you for that.
As listed in some of the comments to your recent post, many suffer some of the issues and concerns you have (more than you could possibly know) and it is (I believe) because of what I call the “Disease of Denominationalism”.
I thank God for this site because it will allow free expression in hopes of revealing the true word of God. That’s radical!!! How appropriate for the site to have such a radical name in order to get across a vivid imagery of the many distortions of the truth of Christianity we encounter from the pulpit.
That said, precious brother, I believe the Holy Spirit is leading you to seek God through prayer and study of the Bible. Even in your posting you speak of this in your bottom line when you stated that your “mind cannot recollect grabbing hold of any solid, sound biblical teaching on any particular subject, for whatever reason”.
You posted several concerns, including leaving your current congragation but not wanting it to be detrimental to your wife’s faith and stability (forgive by paraphrase), as well as the Trinity vs Oneness concerns.
In your quest to do God’s will, you are headed in the right direction by studing the Bible. I hope to encourage you to continue to do so and offer the one book I feel is vital in this effort (outside the Holy Bible). That book is “How To Study Your Bible” by Kay Arthur.
Ready4Change, I mention it because it has been such a blessing in my life concerning similar issues you have expressed. The book does what pastors should be doing but are failing to do so - instruct followers how to study the Bible, understand it and apply the practical principles to their lives.
When we read and study God’s word and seek an understanding of what the Bible actually says (teaches), then and only then will we be able to position ourselves to fulfill God’s will in our lives. If we rely on what others say the Bible says, then we suffer.
I would like to encourage you to continue to study God’s word, the Bible, as instructed in 2Timothy 2:15. You will find that as you continue to prayerfully seek God in this manner, He will reveal His word to you by the Holy Spirit. Then, as your mind is renewed and you do not conform to the pattern of this world (including the Disease of Denominationalism that permeates the Church, via the pulpit, you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is (Romans 12:2).
In closing, I would like to apologize for the length of this reply to your post; I did not want to directly answer each question/issue you divulged, but rather to provide you with the encouragement to continue seeking God, to enter into a deeper study of the Bible, to be as the Bereans (Acts 17:11), and (lastly, but most importantly) to call (pray/speak out) to God with each concern/issue you have in faith, and He will answer you and tell you great and unsearchable things you do not know (Jeremiah 33:3).
Remembering you and your family in my prayers,
BereanJim
Wow, some long responses to a well written and well thought out post.
As a ‘cultural’ Catholic myself, in regards to your wife, I’d approach the subject with her slowly and ask simple questions like ‘Who did Jesus pray to? Often he’s said to have prayed in private and even in the Garden of Gethsamane(sp) he spoke with his father (who art in heaven). It’s almost nonsensical for one to pray to himself in private.’
This was one of the questions I (a white) and others asked in a nearly all black Oneness church a couple of years back. Wonderful, sincear people full of love who’s pastor was doing them an injustice. Most didn’t seem to know that the pastor was slowly pushing a Oneness agenda and was lauding TD Jakes as his personal mentor all the while pushing the congregation to buy a bigger church away from the local housing projects. The pastor was as open and honest as I’ve seen but, couldn’t support his position with logic and sound biblical passages.
As to Catholicism, they have a simple practice on the Trinity. It’s a mystery of Faith. Human logic struggles to deal with how can One God exist in a triune nature, seperate but apart.
This may be a concept your wife is familiar with…or not (many in Catholicism can express that they really don’t feel taught essentials of faith in a personal and meaningful way…thus, many leave for other sects or faiths that do).
Not sure if that’s as helpful as the rest of the commentary…but, I gotta get back to work…
All,
Words cannot express how much my heart is overjoyed as I read your responses and recieve your advice. Thank you all for the abundance of rich wisdom that you have taken the time to so freely give. It is encouraging to know that I am not alone in this, and that many of you have experienced the same issues.
Brother Melvin-thank you so much for posting this the way you did. You’ve not even known me for long, yet I can sense that your concern for the handling of my situation is genuine. And, by the way, I just love the picture!!! (smile…)
Lady D, Brother Mark and Long journey - The real life experiences and familiarity you shared was priceless! It gives me hope and reminds me that of a truth, God is no respector of persons. My soul has been truly refreshed by your words of encouragement.
GaryV, REB, Brother Spitzer and Brother Clark - Your widsom and insight on how to navigate through tough doctrinal waters and heavy storms was right on the money! You gentlemen have given me just the spark I needed to keep the fire burning. I have already begun researching some of the golden resources that you have suggested, and will continue to mix them with much prayer, bible study and sensitivity to the Holy Spirit as He carries me to the destination that he has prepared (beautiful illustration GaryV).
I know that I will not be able to respond individually to every person who comments, but let me say to all of you that I appreciate what has been said, and a thank you to what will be said in the future. Please keep the comments coming, as they have been extremely helpful and valuable. And furthermore, all of you may email me at any time. My address will be at the bottom of this message. God bless you all!!!
anointed2servejc@hotmail.com
My name is Markette Moore I am the pastor of bread of life cogic in Murrieta CA, I came to know about God through the Baptist church. However I walked away from the church in my early teens and turn to living the street life. To make a long story short I went to jail for 8 months and within that time I came to know the Lord Jesus Christ as my personal savior.
But I had a huge problem, some of my family where Baptist, some where oneness apostolics, but one of my aunts was “born again” and filled with the Holy Ghost and she seem to really know God and yes she is cogic. So while I was in jail I studied the Word of God for 6 months using the bible alone as my bases for truth (KJV) and other information that I had received from my wife’s pastor.
I needed to know a few things
1. Who wrote the bible? (Heb 1:1-2)
2. Who is God? (Ps 19, John 14:11, Col 1:12-19)
3. Who is Jesus? (Isa 9:6, John 1: 1-14, John 3:16-17, Rev 1:8)
4. Who is the Holy Spirit? (Gen. 1:2, John 14:16-17, 1 John 5:7)
5. Is the God of the bible the same god of other religions? (Duet 6:13-16, 1 Cor. 8: 3-6)
All these things I needed to know because I didn’t want to go to hell. In that time that I spend in jail I received the Lord Jesus Christ as my savior but I also begin to understand the need for sound biblical truth. It is the Word of God alone that revel’s the truth of God to men, apart from that you will fall in to falsehood. So my search through the scriptures have lead me to where I am today, and that is within the bible we are giving the instruction in righteousness and how we ought to handle ourselves in the church.
The problem is that some people believe that we need other things to use to relate to this culture in order to lead them to Christ, but the bible clearly states that we are not to try and lay another foundation upon that which has already been laid in Christ (1 Cor. 3:10-15). But many men have taken it upon themselves to lay their mark on Christianity in this age, by making up things about God and His word to justify their theology. You can not use ideas to formulate doctrine or a sermon you must use that which is in the text to formulate sound biblical doctrine.
This is why Paul said this: (Rom 1:16) For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
The messages that are being preached today are powerless because it is build on wealth, which only gives one the power to buy things, and secular humanism where we want everything that belongs to God without giving God the honor for it, where are ideas and feelings guide us. This is why in the church we are to hold to the things that God’s Word teaches us and resist the devil who wants us to preach another message.
At our local church I am trying to let God lead us in the way that we are to go. So I stay close to the Word of God. Leaders at our church have to take a 8 weeks ministry class and a 1 week Christian conduct and character class before getting involved in leadership. All leaders are encouraged to take some seminary classes as well, to help them with their spiritual development, from a creditable Christian school. The church as a whole is in a very critical state right now because of the emerging false doctrine that has creep into the body of Christ. I believe that we must stand upon the Word of God to get us through these times.
So at are church we believe and preach the Word of God in context, we deal with real issues facing leadership, we deal with real issues facing the people, we deal with real issues concerning the order of worship and how God’s business is conducted. I will say this I have read and heard a lot of people comment about the expression of worship in the black church. Keep in mind that we all have at one point been in bondage in sin, I once was a gang member, drug dealer, drug addict and a lot of more things I will not mention. My point is this I clap my hands, dance and sing unto the Lord because the bible says that we ought to do that (Ps 149:1-9). When I was in sin I let the devil use me to serve him in every way, now the Lord uses me in every way. But keep this in mind dancing and singing is not evidence that you have a relationship with God, but true worship is a life that is line with God’s Word “they that worship God must worship Him in Spirit and truth”. You can dance, sing, and clap all day but if you are not living right your worship is empty, I am saved and I love the Lord.
We must stand against
· False teachers no matter who they are and what position they hold.
· Against sin no matter who is involved in it.
· The spirit of adultery and fornication.
· Homosexuality.
· Divorce.
· Thief’s
So let us conclude this message by saying, be patient and let God lead you in the way that you should go. The spirit of fear will try and hold you hostage but God is greater then your fear. Get in the word and study to show yourself approved unto God. People are not going to understand where God is leading you or like you very much but pray for them to come to the knowledge of God’s truth in Christ. I too had to face these same issues that you are in and to this day people don’t like my view on a lot of these issues because I believe the Word of God over everything else.
Greetings Pastor Moore,
That was a beautiful message; spot on! I would like to know what you have come to understand/believe about tithing. Is it mandatory for us Gentiles?
God bless you,
BereanJim
Hi Berean Jim:
No, tithing is not a N.T. obligation. You can give
a tithe but it is not commanded or demanded by
God for the N.T. believer. Giving is a subset of
stewardship.
There is a good e-book at apostasywatch.com
regarding tithing and a two part article by yours
truly on the subject (first name…Lafe) under
the category of articles by other authors.
Regards……
Again I don’t know why my position on tithing is so important to you, but I will give you my position. God doesn’t need are money, but He designed the tithe and the offering to be a blessing to the people. In my own personal studies I would agree with you. Jesus never condemns the tithe nor do any of the disciples, but they do address giving as being a part of God’s plan for the church to help with the operation of ministry and meeting the needs of the people. (Mal 3:1-18 to fully understand this chapter read the whole book, Mk 12:41-44, 2Cor. 9:1-15).
God meets the needs of His people by blessing them spiritually and physically, there are many ministries where the pastors are on salary because they work full time for the church. Some churches are able to pay full time staff’s. I personally think that if a pastor is going to be on salary that that salary shouldn’t hurt the church from meeting the needs of there local church or community. I strongly disagree with pastors living like movie stars and gospel artist living like hip hop and rock stars at the expense of the church.
These people that teach such things need to be reminded that they are servants of the most High God and He will reward us as He sees fit. It is a shame how the people are being affected by these wolf’s that have crept in and hinder the people from being blessed by God because of their lies, in stead of the people being cheerful givers they don’t want to give at all. I have also seen where some pastors have giving themselves into poverty.
I personally don’t take a salary at my local church because God has blessed me with a good job that I have had for 8 years, but one day that job will end and then I will get another job so that I can continue to be a blessing to the church with my tithes and offering. I also don’t deal with the money in any way other than to make sure that the finance department is taking care of the bills and using it for the work of the ministry. I don’t even know how much money the people are giving in tithes and offerings. The purpose for that is that I won’t be enticed by the money or be afraid to preach certain things in fear of losing members.
That’s my position.
Thanks, Lafe. I will take a look at the article.
BereanJim
If I may ask you what does “spot on” mean? I have come to understand that salvation is in Christ alone and not in anything else. What doesmy position on tithing have to do with what this brother is dealing with? I’m not saying that to be defensive in any way. You can e-mail me at breadoflifecogic@yahoo.com
Pastore Moore,
What do you mean by your “position on tithing”? What does “your” position on Bible rate compared to the truth of the Bible? It doesn’t! The truth of the Bible is what matters, not man’s (pastor’s) ability to play political correctness with the principles of God in order to satisfy their misguided teachings. I don’t know what your position is, but I can tell you this, if you are not correcting (in love) those in leadership that are perpetuating lies, mistruths, and deception, then you are tacitly approving and agreeing with what they are doing. That, if you have the ability to call wrong to light, makes you an accomplice (I pray that is not the case). By the way, what is “your” position on tithing???
BereanJim
Hey Brother Melvin. If you like, you can give the brother my cell number if he would like to further discuss his concerns. I would rather speak with him over the phone instead of trying to type all of my thoughts with him. It works better for me. Peace.
It is natural to feel fear. But it is so exciting to come to know the truth! The scriptures are clear, all we have to do is dig into them. God Bless
Hey you guys, I know this is off the subject, but I just read an article at crosswalk.com where Bill Hybels and other seeker-sensitive/church growth gurus have admitted that their whole approach to “doing church” is flawed. Their own research showed them that their methods increased attendance figures but it did not make disciples! Market research and addressing peoples “felt needs” are no substitutes for proven, solid biblical teaching. You can access the article at http://www.crosswalk.com/pastors/11558438/page1/
Well, the truth always surpass lies. At least they’ve acknowledge the lies that they were teaching which messed up people’s minds.
Brother:
Regarding your concern for your wife and family, I suggest that you spend time with them in family worship, teaching them the truths that you have come to discover. This provides an atmosphere whereby questions can be asked and answered and one that you will be able to control as the spiritual leader of the home. As time goes on and with much patience and prayer, your wife and family will come to see the truth that you have found and I am trusting that the Lord will bless your efforts and faithfulness.
Truth Promoter, that’s a nice article. Now we wait to see whether pride or humility reigns in the hearts of these seeker-sensitive weenies. My guess??Even though research and marketing strategies informed their decision to dilute the Gospel for numbers,the research that tells them they were deceived will be largely ignored.
Can you see guys like Doug Pagett and Rick Warren admitting they’ve been leading folks AWAY from Christ with their pseudo-Gospel?? We’ll see where their hearts really are now.
To0 My Brother in Christ, To Whom God is revealing Himself. I don’t think you should give your pastor an opportunity to explain his position of the Triune nature of the Godhead. You are probably not going to convinve him against the Oneness theology. I think you should prayfully and carefully speak with your wife and family and then meet with the pastor in whatever format is available for those deciding to leave that particular church. make the move in obedience to the Truth the LORD has shown you. Unless you know for a certaianty that God has called you to be there to convince the pastor you should leave. To stay and not be in agreement will only breed disention and ruion your witness for waht you have now come to embrace. Get out. My family did when I was a very small boy my grandmother rpented of her sins and became a Christian in a oneness church. She and all of my mother;s side of the family were baptized in Jesus name and joined the church. My family didn’dt even know it was a :jesus Only” church (as they were called then) until they heard the formula for baptism! I heard them discussing it late that day. “Wasn’t he supposed to say in the ame of the father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit? What a shock. Well my family stayed with Jesus but the left the oneness church for a baptist church and some for a Holiness church. You will be alright. I’m going to pray for you. I hope all of the Pulpit Pimps community will do the same.
Hi y’all. Just wanted to let you know if you haven’t seen it already… the Senate is investigating a bunch of ‘pulpit pimps’ like Copeland and Meyers. It’s about time, right?
AOL News: http://news.aol.com/story/_a/senate-probes-televangelists-finances/20071106091309990001?ncid=NWS00010000000001
You know I haven’t been coming here but a few days but I would like to ask a question if I may.
The reason for my question is that I don’t have a problem with the extravagant lifestyles that preachers lead but only based in this sense that statistics and their factors prove that they have actually improved their community on the scale where which they live their lifestyles. I mean if you want to fly around the country and they pay you as such to do so for your preaching, I can get with you making the salary as a motivational speaker which I know a lot of them do. The problem I have with some of these preachers is that their statistic doesn’t warrant their lifestyle. Or maybe I am not saying that correctly. I mean that I see no improvement in their surrounding communities to warrant them to ride in a royce or fly a jet while their members are in debt, living in crime infested areas, kids attending ill educating schools or on welfare.
That brings me to my question. Does anyone have any statistics or numbers as to how the mega churches or some of these pimping preachers are actually impacting their surrounding communities? Like has their cities or towns seen surges of improvement since the launch of these churches? I mean Jesus is light and once he comes into you darkness has to cease and therefore your life must change and not only that, but those around you will be bombarded as well because you are so full of that light that you want others to know about it also.
Therefore if the gospel has actually been preached and touched the lives of any of these mega church people then why has it not impacted the community? I mean have we seen a increase in high school graduates or college bound students since these churches came into the towns and grown by leaps and bounds in different communities? Is unemployment on the decrease because of the influx of the power of God in the lives of these people, oozing out the sides of the mega church making it burst out and touch all on everyside?
Are there any statistics that prove that these pimps can warrant a lifestyle of extravagance such as they live? Have they preached the gospel truth to the masses that has caused the Spirit to come forth in peoples live to the point to where crime levels have dropped in these places? If they have then you know what I can accept the lifestyle just a little less flashy because it is a bit to flamboyant but if none of these things have taken place then they need to stop pimping the people and start putting that money to better use like helping some of their members pay their light bills, put some kids through college or get out of debt.
Even the word says in James 2 about those works and being helpers to each other. I want to know if they are helping anybody at all or are they greedily heaping money just to themselves? Are there any statistics that somebody can let me read or lead me to? I am sorry this is so long but this thing sparked a passion in me!
Nothing but love
(MN: Actually, even if they were making a difference, there would be no justification for the extravagance. After all, it wouldn’t be THEM making a difference, it would be Christ in the people making a difference. Paul’s Gospel definitely made a difference. And Jesus definitely made a difference. But there was no extravagance in the life of either. )
Your logic is like this.
Just say Nino Brown in the neighborhood drug dealer. He sales drugs throughout the community, which brings up the crime rate, effects parenting ability (actually inhibits) and on top of that enlist other kids to sale his drugs. Now just say he comes on Thanksgiving and Christmas and gives gifts and turkeys to the kids. As a matter of fact he has purchased uniforms for the neighborhood football team and helped some kids go to college. Would you still say he is helping the community? I would hope not. Nor does wolves who preach a heretical gospel, rob people of the freedom in Christ and live lavishly off of those they miseducate and manipulate.
In other words your stats would be skewed because it is like putting gas in a bucket with a funnel in the bottom the person holding the bucket will always get robbed.
(MN: So BAR…you think I could shamelessly plagiarize this example? It should appear the next time someone tells me how much good the pimps and their organizations are doing. )
Well BAR I would just like the stats so that I can see them skewed or no stats r a good place to start when looking into a subject such as this because it is for my own personal research. As far as me thinking that nino would be helping the community I would say that if that is the opinion I gave you then such is far from the truth. I am just a numbers person. I pull them out and make my own assumptions with them. In no way would I want you to think that I side with a person using anothers ills to get gain especially to the point of hurting that person and also if they are the reason the person is downtrodden in the first place. And then on top of all that using the church and Jesus to be a smoke screen to beget more and more sheep to slay and misuse. By all means if I gave you that opinion of me please do not think it.
Anytime you please. Make it more articulate though. LOL
MN I hear that but there are those that are rich weather obtained or born into it so their lifestyle may seem more extravagant to the low man such as I regardless. My meaning is that if they were making a great impact in the lives of all these people that they shepherd and their communities it would be evident and therefore an extravagant lifestyle would be ok just not with all the flamboyance of a peacock strutting around like look at me with a big gold fence in my front yard. I mean there are other preachers out there that make a good living and actually serve Jesus but you don’t see them riding around looking like they just came off of pimp my ride. But if you do have any statistics on this I would be very much interested because I really want to see if they are having any impact at all or are they just making a dollar like all the other motivational speakers out there that are not using the name of Jesus as a guise to make a dollar.
All,
Just wanted to give everyone an update on my status thus far. What an eventful time it has been since this was posted!!! Following the wisdom that was given and through much prayer, I started last week by having a bible study with my family concernining true salvation. It was an eye-opening experience for us all, and although there will still need to be much more teaching, praying and seeking the Lord concerning this matter, I really believe God has begun to open their eyes to what it means to be saved according to the scriptures. As a precursor to the bible study, I had been praying and casually approaching the subject with my wife by asking her questions concerning salvation and the Godhead. There has been some progress, but it will definitely take some time. My heart is yearning for the floodgates of her heart to open and recieve the spiritual treasure that so eagerly awaits her. I talked with my pastor (I should say my former pastor now), and as I expected, he was very open to what God had revealed to my heart and mind through the scriptures. However, as also expected, he was not willing to part with the Oneness doctrine that he and the congregation has embraced. Since the only formal process of leaving that particular congregation was communicating the desire to do so to the pastor, that’s what I did. He wished me well and told me to keep in touch. As far as the rest of my family goes (mom and dad and company), I’m sure over the course of time this issue will come up and I will have to address it. But believe me, I feel so empowered by the Holy Spirit and such peace that I am ready to give an answer for the hope that lies within me. So, with all of that said, I kind of feel like I am beginning my spiritual journey anew, with only God and His Word as my guide and map. Let the journey begin!!! Thank you all so much for your prayers, advice, support and well wishes. If any of you know any sound, bible based churches in the Jacksonville, Florida area that are expository in the teaching of God’s word and endeavor to bring Him glory in all of their functions and activities, please either post them on this site or contact me at anointed2servejc@hotmail.com.
God bless you all
Hello Ready for Change I sent you an email. God bless.
R4C……..happy to hear it.
R4C,
Glad to hear it. My wife and I attended the Miami Pastor’s Conference thanks to BlaqueTulip. It was a remarkable experience. On Friday night she wasn’t able to attend but confided to me “this could all be a cult for all I know”. I was shocked but prayed and we prayed together. I was about to lay hands on her but didn’t want it to turn into a Bynum-Weeks scenario….
Anyhow she took to it like a duck to water…well more like duckling. She’s a former anointed Pentecostal and is amazed that almost everything she learned was false. She had not been attending our church, which is not Reformed, but I found her a great church that is Reformed. I explained the situation to my Pastor and he agrees with where we’re going. I haven’t left the church but that is the next step for me. My church paid for my first semester at a liberal seminary but now that I am switching to Reformed Theological Seminary…..THEY’RE PAYING FOR THAT TOO!
After my first semester at RTS I will more than likely switch to the Reformed church. It’s basically a mega-church in that it is huge. It is amazing that a church that preaches, teaches, and disciples the Truth they are so large.
Anyhow my recommendation is to take it slow. The scales don’t fall off of everyone’s eyes at the same rate.
Ready4Change - send me your e-mail address. One of my contributors responded to your request for comments ob forty questions out at Angelfire.
I’m editing it for a posting here, but I would like for you to see the whole response yourself.
By the way - GaryV, the resident cynic thought you might be a plant by some sneaky Oneness group to get in and argue without sounding as if you are arguing. I said “No, no one can be that much of a coward.” Tell me I’m right.
HEY!! I value my cynicism……..it’s kept me pimp-free for about 10 years now
R4C, don’t listen to Mel’s hyperbole. I didn’t say you WERE yet another Oneness plant,but I’m prone to hang back and observe just in case
Bless you my Bro. First, I applaud you fro being honest, and in your honesty, the Lord, I believe has heard you. All I desire to say concerning this is Get you Bible, and seek the Lord in prayer, and He will begin to open up HIS Truth to you. God is the revealer of HIS Word….In my personal opinion, each denomination has a portion of truth, the problem is that most if not all the time, they either go to the extreem left or the extreem right, we all need a balance, and only studying the Scriptures and allowing to Holy Ghost to reveal Himself through the Scripture will keep us balanced. As a preacher of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, one thing that the Lord has taught me is that as long as you preach MY word, you can preach in any denomination. Some may put me out for really preaching the Truth, but oh well, there lost, not God’s…… You stay encouraged, and keep seeking for the Truth of the Lord.