Running this site gets better and better. As more people visit and take an interest in the information I present here, the more eyes I have available, seeing the pimps at work, hearing the things they say, watching the things they do.
As you know, Joel Osteen (aka Willow Boy) has been on a rash of talk shows, news shows, and other information outlets. In fact, Willow Boy is all over the place. One reader sent me an e-mail with a copy of a page from an Osteen follower’s website. I also got the web site address. Here is the link to the site (Willow Boy Paraphernalia). If you visit the site you can get “I Watch Joel Osteen” lapel pins and bumper stickers. Here’s a picture of it.
According to the site owner, wearing one of these pins gives you the perfect opportunity to tell people about Willow Boy and when they can watch him. Hmmm. Did I miss something? I always thought the various witnessing tools were to let us ambush people with information about Jesus Christ.
I could go into a major rant here and rail against the guy that sponsors the IWJO site (it’s not Willow Boy of Lakewood Church). But I don’t guess there would be much point in that. Besides, when I rooted around on the site, I discovered that these guys are spiritual morons and they know they are spiritual morons. Once I ran up my NSA/CIA/FBI approved, super-duper hacking equipment (I bought it at radio shack about three weeks ago), I was able to hack into a couple of sections of their server they haven’t made public just yet. What do you think I found there?
That’s right! More lapel pins. But these pins seem to be a little more honest than the first one. Take a look at them below.
This first one is the “I Refuse To Think” pin. It’s for those folks who want to make sure everyone knows that they have no clue as to the need to be able to give an reason for the hope that lies within us. They are quite happy to smile, tell you to have a blessed day, and talk about being blessed and highly favored.
Ah yes. This is the pin for folks who are perhaps one step up from the IRTT pin wearers. It’s the “I’m a WoF Weenie” pin. This is a favorite of the folks who think that Willow Boy preaches deep truths and tell themselves everyday that God wants them to be rich. It still has nothing to do with the Bible, but wearing the pin keeps the wearer feeling good about himself.
This is one of my favorite, and perhaps most honest pins. It’s for people who are tired of trying to explain why, if they are Christians, they haven’t memorized any Bible verses, never talk about Jesus Christ, and always seem to be talking about improving themselves rather than speaking of God transforming their minds, renewing their hearts, and practicing the mortification of the flesh. It’s the “I Follow Joel, Not The Bible” pin
This pin was on a page that the owners figured a few fundamentalist wacko fanatics would be willing to go to. They’re not counting on selling very many of them and they pretty much held their noses when they produced them. I guess the folks who run the website figured there wouldn’t be many people asking for the “I Read The Bible” pin. But at least they made a few.
Mel,
Joel was on Larry King Live. Larry King quoted Matthew 19:23 and asked Joel, in light of his luxurious lifestyle, what he thought about that verse. Joel of course begin to talk about how rich Abraham and David were. He even said that David left his son the equivalent of one billion dollars($1,000,000,000) as an inheritance when he died. What son you may ask? Well, according to Joel it was Samson. That’s right Samson. As he stuttered out that answer Larry was kind enough to help him along with the correct answer, Solomon. How did Joel handle what should have been an embarrassment? With this statement “Well I guess I should have gone to seminary”. (sarcastic emphasis added) That’s right, not only was Joel proud of his lack of bible knowledge, but he was also flippant and dismissive toward it’s importance.
Now why am I bringing this up you may ask? Well, I want to send a message to all (and I do mean all) those of you who shun the importance of pursuing (whether in seminary or not) a furtherance of your bible knowledge through theology, hermeneutics, homiletics, exegesis, history, language, etc.:
THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS TO YOU WHEN YOU ATTEMPT TO DISCONNECT CHRIST JESUS FROM HIS WORD!
This is what happens when the study of God’s word comes in a distant second to all of the “religious” activities that you partake in day after day.
This is what happens when you say (as some on this site have said, you know the two I’m thinking of) that nobody really knows the truth.
This is what happens once Satan gets a foothold on your eyelids.
BLINDNESS! BLINDNESS! BLINDNESS!
Mel, I truly do not know which is worse: The guy who doesn’t know what he’s talking about biblically, knows it, but doesn’t care.(Joel Olsteen) Or the guy who swears he knows what he’s talking about biblically and who doesn’t (you know the two I’m thinking of here too), who has it demonstrated to him over and over, but yet will not listen.
Lord have mercy!
Now, I’m not saying that you are, but if you’re referring to me, in regards to one of those who have the word “demonstrated to him over and over, but yet will not listen,” well-I still believe what I believe.
My belief in a particular position (arminianism), doesn’t mean I don’t “listen” to, or understand, rather, my position is just different than your position, based on what I gleaned from scriptures.
Again, just because I disagree with someone, doesn’t mean I don’t understand where they are coming from, or that I am being intentionally stubborn to the “truths” they want to impart…
If you weren’t talking about me, then my bad.
Seekerman,
It took me a while, but I did finally come to understand that just as salvation is a sovereign act of God in a sinner’s life, so is the acceptance of the doctrine of God’s total sovereignty in the salvation of that believer.
I used to be an attack dog, eager to make everyone see the rightness of the Reformed view. I have since learned to state the case, be ready to respond to questions, and allow God to chase them down.
It’s a lot less stressful for me, for the person I’m talking to, and for our relationship.
To mn I’m gald to see that attack dog is off. I wish other people would take time to think that way about all of our views.
By the way, I wasn’t trying to make it look as though Seekerman agreed with me. He clearly says he doesn’t. My point is that it is not my job to argue them into agreement. He will come to understand and embrace Monergism at the right time, when God says so. All I do is present the information every now and then. His response to the information is in God’s hand.
This gross misreading of yours is one of the issues I have with your comments.
To Bro. Lawrence D.
Wow! even unsaved people know that there is something wrong with the church.
To Ld, Let me guess, is this for me and msamu? Just like seekerman said,we still belive what we believe! How many times do I have to say it, he wasn’t talking to you! BLIND, BLIND, BLIND can’t you hear, hear, hear and understand that!
DTG you typed:
How many times do I have to say it, he wasn’t talking to you!
(BLD) All I have to say to that is….WHAT? Who wasn’t talking to me about what? Man I wish you at least take a remedial English course. Since you have someone in your home that you must believe is qualified by the fact that you homeschool your children, then you have no excuse not to get the help you so DESPERATELY need. Why don’t you sit in on a few classes?
(MN: Brother Larry, I suggest you ease up a bit. DTG is as DTG is. I, for one, don’t know what he is doing to improve. Neither do I know what he is dealing with. While I will continue to complain if he insists on submitting long writings for me to wade through, the short stuff is generally doable. Since it is possible that he may have great difficulty changing, I extend him the grace of continuing to post short-ish comments. In other words, cut the brother a little slack - as long as he limits the length and number of comments.
After all, I’ve gotten a couple of gems from DTG on occassion. I just don’t want to do too much digging. )
Benevolent Dictator,
I do hereby submit to your suggestion to ease up a bit. I just wish that if someone was going to call me out or respond to my comments that they would at least do it in understandable language.
By the way, did you notice that I left out the word “would” in my “Man, I wish you WOULD at least take a remedial English course”. Now I have to write myself a ticket since I am the Chief of the Grammar Police here at HOPS (Hooked on Phonics Squad). LOL!!! GaryV is the SVU-(Special Vocabulary Unit) Chief. IC is the D.A. (Diction Attorney). You know that makes you Commissioner. (No wonder every now and then I sense a little public relations skew in your directives. HA! HA! HA!)
(MN: I guess it’s true. No good deed goes unpunished. I give up trying to defend the literarily handicapped. )
Oh, Spinny Baby aka Melvin the Spin Doctor,
First of all, about your comment yesterday where you said you don’t know what I’m dealing with; please man, give me a break! Your psychological mind games don’t work on me. Your subtle spin tactics only work on your sheeple. Unfortunately for them, they’ve left the manipulation of the money pimps only to be sucked in to your manipulation. Like I’ve said before, I know this type of mindset. Take a good look at yourself MN.
To me, you’ve become just like the pimps you despise. You now have your own internet pulpit where you get to have the final say and present the “facts” as you see them. This is ok with me because my former “pastor” prepared me mighty well for this kind of garbage. Been there done that! Your sheeple can’t even see when you’re being deceptive. By keeping the focus on the other kinds of pimps, you fly right under the radar. I can’t stand NO KIND of pimp mentality whether on a website or in a building that you love to call a church.
Don’t think I didn’t notice when you put your spin on Seekerman’s post by trying to make it look like he was agreeing with your point of view, when he wasn’t. (MN: ? ) Where’s your integrity Spinny? I’m sure by now I’m boring you as you like to say. So what, the feeling is mutual! You want to make slick remarks about me and don’t expect me to say anything?
By the way Spinny, a sure fire way for a boxer to lose a fight is by fighting the other man’s fight. Nah, baby, I’m not going to fight your fight. I know this is YOUR blog, and I’m on your turf with all your sheeple ready to defend you. I’m not a respecter of persons, Mel. You should know that about me by now. I’m not afraid of being banned or having you ridicule me.
Do what you do best, no sweat off my brow. Maybe I’ll start my own blog and you will be my main feature along with The Professor, and HE knows who HE is. I know, I know, I’m using up your bandwidth, I’m a valuable object lesson for you to present to your sheeple, and your favorite one; I still didn’t address the issues. (MN: No. You didn’t. ) Yada, yada, yada. Whatever, Spinny, I’m only playing your game.
Sincerely yours,
Derrick the Gladiator, aka the Hound, the Butcher, AND the PRETERIST!!!!!
Man that was the best post I’ve ever read by DTG. There’s no way he wrote that alone! HMMMM?! It was clear. The grammar and punctuation was on point. DTG, did you download that post at sermons.com? LOL!!!
Now if you did write this all by yourself, then that’s great because this is all I’ve been asking of you. I understood every statement you made. But if you did get help with it, I’m still happy. Why? Because I understood every statement that you made. Great post!
That is of course disregarding the fact that you made a number of allegations without support. (as usual)
Precisely HOW is Melvin a pimp DTG?? Define the term as you use it.
Uhh, Mel, guys? Do those of us who come to this blog because of its objective, informative and insightful exchanges really have to listen to what appears to be the emotive ravings of of of of oh heck I cant find the word. Anyway Mel ease us up please? Why should we have to deal with that kind of spiel?
1Co 2:12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
1Co 2:13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man’s wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
1Co 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
1Co 2:15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
1Co 2:16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.
Just thought that this portion of scripture would be relevant at this point.
“Feed the flock, not on the flock.”
Dear DTG,
I’m not going to insult you however I do have to question you and your motives.
First, How is Melvin a Pimp? Pimps have their “ho’s” underneath them to give them money. Nowhere does Melvin ask for a dime. Also, why don’t you “address” the issue? In other words, what issue? Where has Melvin pimped anyone past, present, or future?
Why does it bother you that someone who was Pimped in the past like Melvin was, or I, or most others here like to expose these frauds? It’s actually quite therapeutic-LOL!
Derrick seriously. What is your problem with Melvin? Give us specifics. Nowhere did he ever give false information. He never asked for money. He never said that if you don’t listen to him then you’re wrong. At most Melvin uses satire which can rub some the wrong way. However, if you understand satire you would understand that it is used to invoke a response. It’s actually a lost art form.
So in ending Derrick just come out and tell us “why” you think he is a Pimp. If you write your response “intelligently” and “well thought out” no one will beat you over the head. We will address the accusations with facts, scripture, and reason.
I hope to hear from you soon!
Kyle
Samson, Solomon, Samuel, what’s the diff? It’s just a bunch of old guys who lived in Israel way back when. Why read the Bible when you can be reading Joel’s latest feel-good blockbuster? Joel will interpret the Bible for you as filtered through his handy Laodicean Lens of 21st century American churchianity.
I see it like this: In hell, would Willow Boy lift up his eyes in torment. If you want to lift up your eyes there too, just follow Willow Boy.
Before we place Joel Osteen in hell, please understand that we can only judge a person’s
testimony (doctrine), their fruit and their lifestyle. In Joel’s case unless, he has made a
confession that denies the non-negotiables basics of the faith, only God can place him in hell.
For us to do so, usurps the power of God.
Until I hear from Joel’s lips that he denies the
faith of Jesus Christ, he is of the family of God..
regardless of what I may think about his
lameness in professing what we believe he should be shouting out…
Ok, he’s heading there. Want a one way ticket? Follow Willow Boy.
Hey Lafe, I am with you, but to openly deny that Jesus is the only sacrifice for sins and the only acceptable payment for God’s wrath, is to also reject the faith. Paul makes it crystal clear in 1 Corinthians 15. If this man was just coming to know Christ and the entire cousel had not been preached (though to have half counsel is leaning towards not having the Gospel preached) I may could side with you some. However, this brother has on a couple of occasions denied this truth thus ignoring 99% of the NT and thus we may have to conclude that he may not profess the same Gospel. We know what was said by the Apostle Paul in Galatians 1 “if anyone preaches another Gospel let him be accursed”. Christ being the only way is an essential
Ya boi Willow Boy said that in assessing Mitt Romney’s beliefs, he concluded that Romney believed in Jesus “just like I do.” Does that sound like a guy who is sound in doctrine? We all know that the Jesus of Mormonism is FAR different from the Jesus of the Bible. We can also rest pretty sure that Willow Boy knows at least something of Mormonism, enough to say it’s not the same Jesus. And Lafe, sir, we don’t need to place JO in hell (as if we could lol), because the Bible already condemns the different gospel that he preaches. And on top of that, unlike JO, Jesus didn’t come first and foremost to give us abundant life, but for His glory and that of His Father’s. What regard has JO for the glory of God? I haven’t heard the words come out of his mouth.
I don’t believe anyone’s damning Joel to hell……we’re merely pointing out that he falls far short of the Biblical model of a church elder in doctrine and confession and compromise, and therefore he’s a danger.
Willow Boy and his trophy wife need to leave CNN alone for they are not fit for leadership, nor interviews. I’ll bet Larry King knows more scriptures than he does. What is the use for being a preacher if you are not standing in the gap for your sheep?
He is a capitalistic, false teacher whom sees church as a business. If he preaches brimstone and fire, he’s history and he knows it. Read the CNN transcript of 2005 when a caller asked Willow Boy if God loves the devil because his friend told him that He does. Willow Boy had no answer. Why? He’s a so-called preacher, right? He’d better have an answer.
I’ll answer it and I am not a preacher, for it comes from the word of God in your bible. Satan and his angels are already condemned, destined to be thrown into the lake of fire. Satan comes having great wrath because he knows that his time is short. In the book of Jude, Micheal the archangel rebuked Satan (MN: Actually, the angel said “The Lord rebuke you. )over the body of Moses because he knew that Satan has long ago been condemned. You can go on in scripture with this, but I’ll say this: You can have Willow Boy and Tony Robbins for the price of one, your soul. Both are not preaching that Jesus is the way to your salvation.
All these guys interpret the Bible to suit their need, I have heard media and local preacher murder so many verses to suit their greed they should be doing jail time
Bro Lawrence D.
This Joel guy is not a Christian he’s antichrist. Education is not a bad thing, it has its benefits, but we must seek balance in our understanding
of God’s word, God has given the believer the Holy Spirit, The Spirit of truth, it’s interesting that you failed to include prayer in your Seeking to understand God’s word? Seeking God’s face in understanding His word I believe is imperative,
Pro 4:7 is clear wisdom’s principal, but a proper understanding is crucial. Paul stated that the Gospel’s not about being puffed up with knowledge,
(1Cor 4:20) but about power. I’m not speaking about the Bennie Hinn or the Wof’er, these men and woman are antichrist.
Using our God given intellect we should present our theologies on our knees before God, and not make the mistake the Jew made.
Blessings
Msamu,
I would figure that most professing Christians that you know would easily recognize prayer as a tool of bible study but not so much the other terms that I used. Perhaps I took it for granted as a given. Read my response to Jcrep32 and you’ll see that I mention prayer in it. I left it out of the other post because it seemed that it was not contextual to the comment that I was making. You know context right? It’s that thing that you run from whenever you quote and try to use scripture (Sorry JCrep, was that an insulting comment? Too harsh? How about too sarcastic?)By the way Msamu, what do you mean by:
(Msamu) Education is not a bad thing, it has its benefits, but we must seek balance in our understanding
of God’s word, God has given the believer the Holy Spirit, The Spirit of truth,
(BLD) Are you saying that education is on one side of the scale and the Holy Spirit is on the other and that’s balance? Don’t you believe that the Holy Spirit educates? Are you comparing theological studies to mathmatical, or biological studies? Surely you’re not going to try the old “The apostles were unlearned/uneducated” line. Remember they spent 3 years with God Himself. I think it would be hard to walk away from that uneducated. What say you?
It sounds to me that you have fallen into the Mysticism trap. That’s the place where you read a verse, then you put a meaning into it and then you say “God told me (put anything here)” and you call it a revelation. I grew up in the COGIC so I have a Mysticism phobia. (Mystiphobic- I guess?) Maybe this is not what you meant. Maybe. Perhaps you could explain that a little further please.
BLD you’re a trip.I like you though.By the way occasional sarcasm is cool and funny.However
nastiness is never good (I learned that in a after school special 1978).No I think Mabel Thomas told Rerun and Raj that.Oh well you get the point.
I will say this once and once only, Joel Olsteen is fulfilling prophecy. If we read 1 and II Timothy especially chapter 3 and 4 we will realize we are in perilous times where many love the words of man instead of God. Joel has one of the largest Church’s in the world and this is just a beginning. We must pray for all those souls. Joel is for the antichrist what John the Baptist was for Christ. He is only paving the way for the antichrist. If Joel has fooled this many people and very open about his deceptions what do you think the antichrist is going to do? Prophecy must be fulfilled.
Shalom Bro Lawrence D.,
I’ve made several attempts to locate the interview where Joel Osteen made the Samson/Solomon error but have remained unsuccessful. I can’t find them in the transcripts. What was the date of the interview?
To Truth,
Avishalom
It was his last appearance on Larry King Live which I viewed on October 20. I’m not sure if that was the original showing.
willow boy is CREEPY. or is it just me?
Did willow boy have a face lift or face tighting, doesnt look natural. (in other words CREEPY)
LOL, I thought it was just me, it does look as if his face has underwent tightening.
I saw his most recent appearance, I think on “Dateline.” The interviewer was fair and asked about Osteen’s positive thinking, WoF message. Osteen responded as he usually does, “I don’t think it’s my place to judge people. And people tell me that I’m helping them.” It reminds me of 2 Timothy 2:25, 26. I pray that someone will be able to reach Joel with this message, “…in the hope that God will grant [him] repentance leading [him] to a knowledge of the truth, and that [he] will come to [his] sense and escape from the trap of the devli, who has taken [him] captive to do his will.”
It’s unfortunate that he has such influence on so many people and that he’s not teaching a gospel that leads to repentance. Mostly, as one of my friends described him, he’s a motivational speaker.
(MN: But the catch is, he wouldn’t have influence on so many people if he was preaching the Gospel. Most folks would ignore him. )
Joel Olsteen doesn’t really believe in the bible, in it’s entirety. Rather, he’s simply a motivational speaker, with “christian” leanings. This cat is totally sold out the WOF movement, and wants it no other way…
Melvin,
The bumper stickers are absolute CLASSICS!! I love your sense of humor…
In Christ,
Buckstah
Mel………you’re deranged
I laughed myself silly on this one..GREAT JOB!!
Is anyone truly suprised by Joel Osteens’ lack of sound biblical teachings? He took a lot of flack when he first wen on Larry King a few years back and refused to state unequivocaly that Jesus was the only way to salvation. He later offered a weak “mea culpa” but did not set the record straight. This is a major problem with many independent churches. There is no accountability doctrinally, unless you count their board of directors which usually consists of close family and friends a la joyce meyers. I doubt if any of their church members even consider that Pastor osteens time my be better spent persuing a bachelors degree, then at least an M, Div.
I think it’s funny when he gets up to speak, he ask the sheeple (I just love that word) to hold up their Bibles and repeat some kind of montra, (”this is my Bible, I can do what it says I can do”… ect.) then places it beside his notes, never to be opened during his entire discource. He wasn’t even a Minister before his Daddy (John) died, yet he usurped the other Ministers who were on staff with John. If anybody can’t see this is all about money then… I have some Ocean front property I’d like to talk to them about in Wyoming. Absolutely amazing… your preacher (The Pastor of one of the largest churches in the USA) doesn’t even know the Bible.
Hey Mel,
My mom used to tell me that “If you throw a rock in a crowd, the only one that hollers is the one who gets hit!”. I guess mom had a point.
By the way, I don’t mind being an attack dog so long as Christ is holding the leash!
Christian: where is the line drawn between criticism and imploring other to do better and being mean-spirited (unChrist-like)?
Is calling someone deranged really furthering cause of bringing non believers to Christ? Just wondering.
(MN: The site isn’t here to bring non-believers to Christ. It’s here to warn believers about the pimps. )
By the way, I took the “deranged” comment as a compliment. It was from the man I consider twisted, one of the primary qualifications for friendship with me.
“Deranged” IS a compliment. I have the same qualifications for my friends. Considering how twisted we each are, I guess we’re friends for life LOL!!
If more non-believers realized that we don’t put up with foolishness and exposed it for what it really is, they might be more willing to hear what we have to say.
I guess Christ was not showing love when he told others to respect His father’s house in no uncertain terms.
Don’t forget the get the transcript of him on the latest Larry King Live interview. This time he bough his wife for reinforcements. he still skirted around a few issues. I will let you see for yourself. melvin, check it out and see if you heard what i heard.
Being an attack dog is definitely fun. You just have to make sure you have the right target. Christ holding the leash would certainly hold you in check when you need to be in check.
I used to love going up against JWs and Mormons because their stuff was so easy to blow out of the water. But I discovered that it does far more good to engage them gently because if they think you know what you are talking about, they shutdown and run away. As a result, I went from attack dog (it’s still there, just on a very short leash) to a harmless, cuddly lapdog. I get to talk to the folks who haven’t a clue a lot longer, I get to direct the discussion with questions and observations, and I get to learn a lot about where the visitors are with respect to any doctrine at all.
I did screw up about a year or so ago though. A couple of Mormon elders came by the house. I haven’t spoken with Mormons in quite a while and I inadvertently went to attack dog mode. The eldest elder (he had to be all of 22 years old) got himself in a huff and brusquely excused himself and the younger elder. I’ve since recalibrated and am waiting for another opportunity to dialogue with another couple of Mormon missionaries.
At least I have gotten to the point that JWs will visit several times before their boss told them they can’t come back.
Someone once pointed out that the cults are basically a missionary field that comes to your door. Though the WoFers don’t generally go from door to door, they do have Jesus Christ (virtually the same as the one of the Bible) in common with us and they work in our offices and other work places. So the challenge is to move them along in the right direction without appearing to move them along. And a lot of times, that means picking not only the best targets, but selecting the right level of force with which to respond to their foolish WoFer doctrine.
I’ve often been tempted to quote a variation of the Artillery motto - “Kill’em all! Let God sort it out!” But that just doesn’t work too well.
BLD ,Mel I too have learned the attack dog approach is less likely to cause one to listen to the truths the speaker is attempting to convey.I found myself more interested in winning a argument instead of a soul to the Lord.
I must say to BLD whose comments are usually interesting and informative.They are often caustic and insulting to the person he’s addressing.
I ‘m down with humor sarcasm and some occasional “bagging”.However BLD you cross the line with your insults and ridiculing people because of their grammar and positions r/t doctrine.
I too have had differences of opinion with many brothers and sisters on this blog (including Msamu,DTG and Mrs Maverick).However I try not to hurt others feelings or embarass anyone .You seem to enjoy belittling others.You often speak with a great deal of pride and zeal about the fact you attended seminary.
That’s a good thing.I personally never did.I’m sure that during your years of study they encouraged you to speak the truth in love.The critical spirit in which you address others I believe is uncalled for.I was reluctant to say these things however as your brother in the Lord I felt it necessary to encourage you to rethink your approach towards others.
Bro. Jcrep32,
While I appreciate your sentiment, I must point out several things that you’ve obviously missed in my post:
1. The truth of the bible is not MY argument. I argue on behalf of the bible not myself. Notice that I don’t mention any theologians, past or present, when I post. I don’t define myself by other men. Even men that I respect. (John Coleman, John Calvin, John MacArthur, John Piper, Alistair Begg, J. Vernon McGee) So I don’t have, per se, a personal stake in what others believe. In other words, if people ignore the truth I don’t necessarily lose a lot of sleep over it.
2. I don’t consider it insulting when I point out that bad grammar is a hindrance to proper communication. That includes punctuation. Have you ever heard of this story: The wife of a wealthy industrialist was on vacation without him and found a beautiful diamond that she wanted to purchase. The diamond cost $75,000. She telegrammed him (old story, right?) and asked if she could purchase it. He telegrammed back “NO, price to high!” When the company sent the message, they sent it as “NO price to high!” without the comma. So she purchased it and he was furious. Well he sued the company and won because when they left out the comma, they totally changed the message. So when you see me address someone’s poor communication, it is with the view that proper communication helps to alleviate misunderstanding. Got it?
3. I have only been accused of having a prideful attitude by people who have either not been able to refute my statements or by people who just weren’t paying attention to my words. You, for instance have totally read one particular thing into my comments that I have never said: I HAVE NEVER, EVER, EVER BEEN TO SEMINARY OR BIBLE SCHOOL. I DON’T EVEN KNOW WHERE ONE IS! I read and study an awful lot for a guy who works upwards of 60 hours a week. (A luxury I have because my wife is a stay-at-home mom and does most of the errands and shopping) I listen to lectures and sermons, and I read essays on various theological subjects along with bible study and prayer. I am proof that you don’t have to go to seminary but that you do have to put in the time and effort to know God and His Word.
4. One thing that I think that everyone should be clear on, having your feelings hurt is not always bad. Neither is physical pain always bad. In fact, that is a part of the body alarm system. But when my feelings are hurt it doesn’t necessarily mean that the person with whom I was speaking is responsible. Possibly my pride, which you feel I’m full of, might be what is actually offended. Perhaps the truth that I am confronted with is destroying a treasured belief that I have held and now I’m wrestling with having to change my mind, which I think we can all agree can be very painful at times. Now I don’t seek to be brash just to be brash but we must also consider that some of the tone of my comments come directly out of my personality which will never change. Also, if you notice whenever someone says that I offended them I always apologize and try to clarify the intent of my statement. (I never get much attention paid to the apology. Hmmm?!)
So Jcrep 32, if you indeed pick up on an unnecessarily harsh tone in my comments, I definitely welcome having them pointed out. Just make sure you have read my comments and understood the intent before you rebuke me. And make sure that the tone was indeed unnecessary.
To Bro Lawrence D
(BLD) said “Possibly my pride, which you feel I’m full of, might be what is actually offended. Perhaps the truth that I am confronted with is destroying a treasured belief that I have held and now I’m wrestling with having to change my mind, which I think we can all agree can be very painful at times. Now I don’t seek to be brash just to be brash but we must also consider that some of the tone of my comments come directly out of my personality which will never change. ”
Msamu-This is were the Holy Spirit come’s in, you must yield your flesh (pride, intellect) to the new heart God has given you.
Your comment “my personality which will never change” is unfortunate it identifies a root cause to your issue, YOUR PERSONALITY MUST CHANGE, Only God can aid you in this regeneration.
Jame 5:16, 1Peter 4;12
The process of regeneration is painful, but God is good.
Peace
Msamu,
All you do is continue to provide proof that you don’t get it. Maybe it’s time that you yielded your ignorance to the Holy Spirit. Let’s take your assessment to it’s logical conclusion. According to you, with regard to personalities, regeneration means that:
1. All jovial people will become sad sacks.
2. All sad sacks will become jovial.
3. All prideful people will become humble.
4. All humble people will become prideful.
You see, Msamu, personalities don’t change at regeneration nor sanctification. The intent of the heart, because of the new birth, is what changes at regeneration. And in santification the personality is held in check so as not to hinder the exemplification of Christ in the life of the believer.
Take the example of Peter. His personality never changed, but the Holy Spirit held his personality in check when it was time to show Christ.
When I made the statement to which you referred, it was made in the sense that when someone claims that their feelings have been hurt it may be that it was their pride. But of course you would have to be skilled in reading comprehension in order to have understood that. (Sorry Mel, I’m not cutting him any slack on this one.)
Try again Msamu. Better yet, don’t try. You’ll only continue to hurt yourself.
Hey BLD, I am confused with your post. I have followed you conversation and your statement about personalities not changing is a little difficult to follow. The truth is personalities do change.
Take for example those personalities that reflect themselves as selfish, impatient, profane, harsh, and prideful. With a new heart comes the power to change sinful personalities. Define as personality for me. The Holy Spirit doesn’t hold a bad heart in check, He gives us a new heart, one with the law of God written on it. We become new creatures, transformed form our old passions and set ablaze for and by God.
Help me understand bro.
Your old personality is part of your sinful nature; a man’s personality is defined as the totality of an individual’s behavioral and emotional characteristics. What makes you a new creation in Christ BLD? If your behavior and your emotional characteristics are unchanged from your sinful nature
How have you been born again? I was a mean man sir it was in my personality, my mom said it, my dad said I’d end up in Jail, he was sure of it, my personality was such that I would not have tolerated a man like you, I’m the one that would have dig the hole and put you in it.
Has God put new wine in an old wineskin? God forbid. You keep your personality BLD; remain smug and prideful and boastful
It’s just further proof that man can resist God, it’s your prerogative it’s your free will.
Black and Reformed,
You made a slight distinction in your comment between what we would normally view as bad personal charecteristics and good ones. (Msamu did not make this distinction) However, I would submit that logically it would have to work in reverse if it’s simply a “change” to the opposite. Nice people (there are some who are not saved) would have to become mean people if it were just the fact that the new birth meant that you would change to the opposite trait. It does not. I agree that we get a new heart but I hope you would admit that we also have some of the same struggles that came with the old heart. Ask Paul in Romans 7.
Did everything in you become resistant to sin at your conversion? What about the flesh? Is your flesh still passionate even for things that aren’t of God? Don’t you wrestle with sin still? Or are you untouched by temptation?
We may be arguing apples and oranges here but it seems that you guys are calling the actions that changed in you, personalities. The intent of my heart did in fact change when Christ saved me. But I was still a jovial individual. I just now take joy in other things. I was still friendly. I just ceased being a friend of the world. I was still generous, just not with the liquor store. See what I’m saying. My personality didn’t flip. I kept it. It was just put to better use.
I will admit upfront, that I don’t agree with modern exegesis as it relates to the wretched man in Romans 7, but that is not here nor there.
I will say that maybe we are splitting hairs. I just can’t get with what your saying. If you were generous to the liquor store that means that you were under the control of alcohol, which in turn means your were a drunkard, which means that you were in obvious sin before the Lord. If you were a friend of the world you were an enemy of God. Maybe this is just a fruitless conversation and MJ you can delete it if this is taking up bandwidth.
I disagree with your logicaldeduction “change to the opposite, I made no such statement or implied such. Ones person(ality) must change from the person(ality) that hated God to the person(ality) that now loves God (MN: This isn’t personallity. I can have a dull as dishwater personality and be an enemy of God before salvation and have a dull as dishwater personality and be a child of God after salvation. If you don’t believe that, look around at some of the saints in the churches. ), The spirit of God now dwelling within us must have influence in shaping ones new person(ality). (MN: No. Same personality, simply tempered by God. A go getter before salvation is going to be a go getter after salvation. A type A prior to salvatin is going to be a type A after salvation. Same personality, tempered by salvation. )
The fact that we were happy and friendly means absolutely nothing, as you would say
it’s a sinful work of our own hand, a desire to be in right standing with God outside of Christ. (MN: Not at all. Some people just have a FRIENDLY PERSONALITY whether they are saved or not. The personality doesn’t change once they get saved. )
Humbling ourselves (a battle in and of it’s self) alone with submitting our flesh to the will and leading of the Holy Spirit (this is inclusive of the word of God not excluding it) our person(ality) is radically changed. (MN: No, it’s not changed. It is simply tempered by God’s spirit. I may be a jokester before salvation, but the character of my jokes will certainly change after salvation. Tempered by the Holy Spirit. ) There’s an inner peace, a rest that transcends our natural understanding, our relationship with the God of the bible must be evident, if not how is the world to know us??
I gave scripture ” Beloved, do not be surprised at the fiery trial when it comes upon you to test you, as though something strange were happening to you. But rejoice insofar as you share Christ’s sufferings, that you may also rejoice and be glad when his glory is revealed.” (MN: Which has nothing to do with one’s personality. )
Paul deals with the battles between our flesh and the spirit, we’re to put on, what? The whole armor of God Eph 6:10-18,
My concern is that you seemed to enjoy your person(ality) (BLD) “Now I don’t seek to be brash just to be brash but we must also consider that some of the tone of my comments come directly out of my personality which will never change. ” the statement “will never change” is puzzling to me as a believer, how’s it possible that ” it will never change”, if you’re a work in progress ( as we all are) and have not obtained glory, would you not say your statement is a bit prideful if not arrogant, at the least?? Your pen is sharp this is a fact, the question is, is it necessary? Are we to provoke each other ( believers) to anger, exciting the flesh giving it reason to rise up and sin? what does scripture say regarding how to entreat a brother? (MN: Personality is not sinful. It is what you are. )
We can choose whom to serve when dealing with each other the easy way is the flesh, the battle is choosing to follow the Holy Spirit (this is inclusive of the word of God not excluding it).
Mn I’m sorry if I got a bit winded, BLD and I have had our disagreements but I was concerned that no one replied
to his statement ” my personality which will never change” I don’t personally know BLD, but He is my brother in
Christ and we should all be a bit concerned about his comment. (MN: By the way, putting the last part of personality in brackets doesn’t do anything but make you look silly. Modifying the text doesn’t strengthen your position. It weakens it. )
Peace
(MN: By order of the Benevolent dictator, this is the last comment accepted on the issue of personality. msamu has spent the last one thousand words talking in circles. And I know some of you out there are tempted to respond to the circle. Don’t. Get back to the posting. )
To brother Lawrence. Thank you for your response.I stand corrected in regards to thinking you were prideful about attending seminary.For this I apologize.
Brother L I aint mad at you.I also don’t pretend to think you would care if I was mad at you any way.I generally don’t have a problem with many things you say just how you say them.I will admit to determine intent or tone of speech is difficult at best when communicating this way.So maybe I misinterpreted some of your prior posts.
I will end with this. Often times how you say something is just as important as what you say.
To BLD,
I remembered, during the first month or two of blogging here, I responded to another bloggers statement. I believe that something was wrong with my computer at the time but only a second add on to my comments showed up and not the first main statement that realy supported what I was talking about. This person probably thought I was an airhead or something. Therefore, especially in my case, I believe that besides grammar and punctuation, a technical problem can hinder proper communication and cause first impressions as well.
To Jcrep good looking out but as you can see by his looooong response to justify his arrogance, dippo can’t be helped. He’s decreed that way LOL. He’s an attack dog that’s probably been maced too many times. Ld, boy, like I told you off line, we don’t have to use MN’s bandwidth, but I know your kind. You’re weak and immature and you’ve got to try to impress the crowd. You want to feel big by trying to down others; that’s the mindset of a chump. I’ve dealt with cats like you before, you’re no different. You can dish it out real good but you can’t take it. You can hide behind your pp posse all you want but I’ve already peeped your card. You’re sad and trifling. Grow up.
Ps. You’re so predictable, I’ve got a bet riding on your response.
(MN: I’ve been trying to stay out of this, but I do have a question. Try to answer the question.
Where in his response did Brother L attempt to justify himself? All I read was a pretty good and comprehensive response to a couple of accusations. It would appear that short of saying “Yes, you’re right” anything he said would be ground for accusing him of justifying himself. But suppose he is right and you are wrong? Are you really safe in judging his motives this way?
Actually, I have two questions.
The second one: How do you determine that BLD is weak and immature? So far I have been quite impressed with his answers and GENERAL restraint. He has a good hold on the essentials. He has been able to express himself quite clearly. And he has provided some really insightful contributions to virtually every discussion. The fact that he generally agrees with me, or course, has nothing to do with his insightfulness. You, on the other hand, rarely actually address an issue and even more rarely use Scripture in a way that effectively supports your position.
So, there are two questions:
1. How did the brother try to justify himself?
2. How do you determine that BLD is weak and immature? (And please don’t say that it is because he tried to justify himself, since you have yet to demonstrate that he did this. )
Hey DTG,
I hope I don’t cost you any money on your bet with this response:
What is a dippo?
Maybe the way in which they have said BLD is weak and immature is the same way that he accused me of being a pimp defender because I chose to believe that the power of God’s grace and mercy is strong enough to turn Juanita from her current ways (should she heed His Voice). It’s all assumptions…This is the freakin’ internet, people…no need to spend time writing out long posts because someone offended you or just isn’t getting it. Move on…Sarcasm is fine and dandy, but when the sarcasm, condescending tones, and name calling get us to this point, it never proves fruitful. Blah blah blah….
Hello, Tweet:
I am new to Mr. Jones’ fine blog.
Please enlighten me; what does “freakin’” mean?
Mahalo
Tweet,
Go back and read our exchange. I never called you a pimp defender. I said that you were making the SAME MISTAKE the pimp defenders make. Big difference.
Hey Spinny, What if I’m right and he’s wrong? I know there’s no way in YOUR book that I can be right. Good thing for me that you didn’t write THE Book. I’ve got my Bible and you’ve got yours.
When did you tone down Melvin? You laid me out the first couple of time I posted on this site… I guess you were having a bad day or something, but you GV, and IC blitzed me through all the gaps… but I didn’t mind, I like a good spirited debate. Me and this Woman preacher go at it from time to time, and it can get pretty heated, but we still respect each other.
(MN: Notice I said I determine the amount of force needed and when to apply it. I don’t recall our first encounters, but I do know that I will push back as called for. Some of the people who visit here (not you necessarily) do warrant an AD approach, once I determine where they likely are. Joe Blow who comes in, drops a couple of idiotic comments and blows back out doesn’t get the same treatment I might give some one else. )
CAN’T WE ALL JUST GET ALONG?
Did I blitz you bishop?? Or did I just forcefully disagree??
The interview with Mr. Osteen shows why those who are in Christ Jesus should search the scriptures daily, to see if things being said are so(Acts 17:11). It is not a sin to ask a pastor what he believes and knows about the Christian faith he is professing? Would you want to stand in the rain with an umbrella that had holes in it? No, neither should you want bad doctrine getting into your life and/or your family’s.
I know this to be true. I called for a meeting once with the pastor of the church I attended. I wanted him to explain his beliefs to my family and I. Why? Since the Lord has called me to be leader in my home, I am responsible for sound doctrine being taught in my home (Deut 11:18-22, Titus 1:6-9, 2:7 and more). I seek to teach the only sound doctrine out here: the scriptures. Shouldn’t the man we hear sermons from do the same? So I asked the pastor did he believe in Jesus Christ. I asked him why, how and so on. Near the end of our conversation he says “Well who am I to judge whether a muslim, or hindu will make it into heaven? How can I say that their faith is not right? I cannot judge them and say they will not go to heaven.” What? I have moved my family from this church denomination.
Did I offend the pastor by asking him those questions? Maybe, I don’t know. Yet the scriptures show that the disciples asked Jesus questions (Matt 19:25, Mark 7:17, Matt 24:3 and many more). So why cannot I?
What’s the key to not getting caught in deception? Matthew 7:7. Funny that chapter also deals with false prophets as well. Let us come back to scriptures, for they testify of our Lord Jesus Christ. Grace and peace to all the brethren in Christ Jesus.
Karsten
(MN: Thanks Karsten. I sometimes wish I had been as agressive with John K. Jenkins. I could likely have saved myself and my family a lot of time off of the time I [and consequently they] wasted there. )
Karsten is so right with the comment “let us come back to the scriptures..” All the sheeple need do is read about the lives of the prophets in the Old Testament of the Bible. They were “true” prophets that exposed the sin of disobedience to God’s people with the sole purpose of calling them to repentance and getting back in right standing with God. Daniel, Hosea, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Micah, Elijah, and most importantly Jesus himself, exposed sin, not for the sake of exposing sin but for the sake of saving and redeeming the souls of human beings for eternity. The enemy and those that are not “kingdom-minded” reduce the issue of deception to a personal level. As I told my former pastor and those like him, “it is not personal, it is strictly spiritual and I am not concerned about your feelings in this life as much as I am concerned about your soul for eternity, besides, there are going to be a lot of people going to hell feeling good!’
Hey Mel,
Sorry that this whole discussion is becoming about me and not about the issues. Heck, even my statements are becoming a back burner issue. (That is, of course, with the exception of Black and Reformed. Although I have a sneaky suspicion that this has more to do with autographed copies of his favorite Hip-Hop than anything else. But that’s just an assumption.)