As I have often said, I am not the sharpest knife in the drawer. I JUST now figured out that the 15th is a Saturday. At first, I thought I had gotten the wrong date and it the grand opening [why does this sound like a store opening for business for the first time?] is actually on 16 September. But no, it’s on a Saturday. And this is good. I was trying to figure out how I was going to get from Sunday School at the church I am committed to now, all the way up to Kettering - Especially if I wanted to get a seat. But that’s all moot. It’s on SATURDAY, September 15th. )
Get ready! Get ready! Get ready! It’s only a couple of weeks - and a couple of days - before the grand opening of the First Baptist Church of Glenarden Mausoleum, Museum, and Memorial! And you KNOW it’s going to be an affair for the entire county. Maybe even the state. Maybe even the entire country! I mean, there will so many big name pimps there you won’t be able to spit without hitting one. The anointing is going to be thick in that place. And something else is going to be deep.
As the occasion draws near, this seems like a good time to bring out my new lottery game. I believe we introduced it last year, but the building completion was delayed and, I fear, interest waned. So we are bringing it out again!
It’s called “PIMP’D BALL.” Click here and take a look at the entry form.
If you want to play, print the card out, read the instructions, fill out the form and send me some money. A love offering of, oh say, $15 will do. Remember, the more you send in, the more likely is is that you will get your breakthrough this season, or maybe next season.
And I really need you to be kind of quick about it. The wife and I are planning a month long evangelism trip to the Bahamas and I still have to buy the cruise ship tickets and reserve a suite at the Atlantis.
Shalom Alechem,
I’ve been offshore and have returned to stories about Juanita Bynum getting annointing by her heavy handed husband. I searched this site and other news articles and found it to be true.
Then I was told about Paula White and her husband.
Man…….. you know it’s hard out here for pimp!!
The Whites, Bynum and Weeks obviously did not “sow” enough “seeds” for their “breakthrough”. This new building will give them a new opportunity to sow seed into fresh soil
.
If they each buy John Jenkins a diamond and gold trimmed Bentley to show off on the parking lot, then all will be well for them
.
Juanita,
You don’t need a doctor or a lawyer all you need is faith-R.w. SHAM-bock.
I dunno about this game but for the people who send that form in, you will definitely see who is into buying blessings. The Bible says that we are made in the very image of God, our Lord Jesus Christ. He owns all this stuff and let Juanita, Tricky D, Fast Eddie, and Cashflow $ build up all these riches for the true righteous ones. I thank the Lord for good common sense.
I watched my grandmother give her last dime, even her rent and utility money to Benny Hinn and Morris Cerullo, bur when she got sick and needed prayer, she couldnt even get through on the prayer line. These people care nothing about the people they prey on. (But I guess we already know that.)
May the Lord Jesus Christ rest, rule, and abide with us all. It’s time to pray people. It really is.
Who is Tricky D?
T. Dexter. Or as he is normally know: T. D. Jakes, the next Billy Graham.
http://www.blackstudies.ca/contact/africa.htm
Deal with the fairy tale won’t you?
he ain’t hardly the next Billy Graham. I can’t say anything about GB. He is, single-handedly, responsible for more people being born again in the 20th century than all the shisters and charlatons put together.
(MN: Actually, no. God was responsible for saving people. Maybe Graham has been more faithful in obeying God. Maybe. )
Hard out here for a pimp thats funny lol.
is this post real? lol
MN.. “you so krazy”… LOL! I’m am rolling in the aisles of my 10×10 office. But on a serious note: “the sheeple had better wake up” cuz a lot of shepherds are “out of control”! but if the sheeple want a true word they can send love offerings / donations to me at http://www.youbeenpimped.org and I got a word for ya’ll!
i actually clicked the link too…..
Melvin,
I’ve enjoyed your musings. I think my former pastor struck the PIMP’Dball jackpot (one of his parishioners gave him a $5million home shortly after his wife “prayed through” on it…ha). That’s been at least 10 years ago…imagine what it’s worth today.
Someone pointed out to me a scripture recently and I wanted to get your take on it. I’ve probably heard it before, but don’t recall it ever really being addressed (my apologies if you’ve addressed it before).
Philippians 1:12-28
And many of the brethren in the Lord, waxing confident by my bonds, are much more bold to speak the word without fear.
Some indeed preach Christ even of envy and strife; and some also of good will: the one preach Christ of contention, not sincerely, supposing to add affliction to my bonds: but the other of love, knowing that I am set for the defence of the gospel.
What then? notwithstanding, every way, whether in pretence, or in truth, Christ is preached; and I therein do rejoice, yea, and will rejoice.
Thanks!
j.
Hi Jonathan!! If I may, Paul was satisfied that the Gospel was being preached REGARDLESS of the motives of the preacher because Paul well knew it wasn’t the SPEAKER but the GOSPEL that had the power.
Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
Hbr 4:12 For the word of God [is] quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and [is] a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
It’s the Gospel that has the power, not the man presenting it, so the motives of the man do not negate the power of the Gospel.
HOWEVER………what we contend here is that not only are the MOTIVES of the pimps errant, they do NOT preach the Gospel either. They preach the imaginations of their own hearts, false visions and dreams, and deceitful revelations. The Gospel is LOST in their preaching.
So, Paul would NOT say today of these pimps “I’m glad the Gospel is being preached regardless of motives” because what they preach is diametrically opposed to what Paul proclaimed as the Gospel.
GARY V: You said: “It’s the Gospel that has the power, not the man presenting it, so the motives of the man do not negate the power of the Gospel.”
H-A-L-L-E-L-U-J-A-H! X3. And Let the true Church say “AMEN!” If I could type in tongues, I would. Luv’ ya’!
Hey Melvin:
I hate to remind you, but, you left out one person in the group, and that is the one and only, the ever-fastly, moving to “pimpville”, Dr. Tony Evans!
BT
Ain’t that just sad BT?? Man, I liked Tony’s preaching back when.
Is he a pimp because he now talks about faith a lot or money. Cause I don’t hear him talking about money that often.
The pimpedness comes in his willing to associate with pimps like Creflo, apparently out of a desire to “enlarge his territory.” He has already started the slide from orthodoxy with the transdispensational stuff.
Pimp by association
To COP: AMEN! The Scriptures tell us that bad company spoils good morals!!!!!!!
Gary V:
Man, my heart aches everytime I see or run into Tony during my travels. I often ask “what happened to this gifted preacher?” And yet I do know, he became obsessed with “size” and “popularity” and decided that he would do things and associate with anybody that would make his
ministry grow numerically.
I’m sure Dallas Seminary is troubled by who Tony has become in recent years. I am actually great friends with Tony’s brother-in-law, who is also a Dallas Seminary alumni. From what I can gather, many of the family members are also concerned about this “new” Tony Evans that is/has emerged.
Blessings!
BT
My heart aches with ya friend……..
Judgement comes first to the church. This ain’t gonna be good for those pimps. But it’ll be riveting for the rest of us. Love this blog, woke up a long time ago.
It appears that Bynum will be on TBN on Tuesday, according to her website.
That “No More Enchiladas” title is kind of strange. I guess that’s supposed to be the Spanish version of “No More Sheets.” Bynum is preaching to a hispanic audience with a translator. I guess no one was offended. But just to be fair, the black version would be “No More Greens” or “No More Hamhocks” I guess.
If that’s true then sadly it just means Blacks can be ignorant and racist also. There is a Spanish word for sheets so such a thing if true is inexcusable.
Hate go off topic hope this gets posted since it’s an honest question. RC Sproul believes in the tithe now before you people go nuts, since the mere mention of this stuff makes you link a bunch of stuff together unjustly, he doesn’t believe it a way to get blessed or tithe or die like Creflow teaches. How is an anti-tithe person supposed to feel when one of the most respected theologians out there says tithing is an act of obedience? Btw since i’m here a few of you have called Michael Youssuf a pimp although he clearly states he doesn’t teach tithing since in his words that’s kid stuff. The disciplined Christian should be giving without someone forcing them with some arbitrary amount. I myself have never heard him do a lesson on tithing but as you guys so aptly pointed out Youssuf has said “some of you are driving in stolen cars, living in stolen houses, wearing stolen clothes”. Do statements like these from Sproul and Youssuf automatically make them pimps or is this a disagree and not divide situation?
I don’t think teaching the tithe makes one a pimp, just in opposition to the NT on the subject of giving. The tithe is NEVER mentioned in the New Testament except when it’s related to OT Jews (3 times).
NEVER mentioned for the church.Not once. Every mention of giving, without exception, is freewill offerings. That’s inarguable.
But while tithing doesn’t make a pimp, all the pimps do teach tithing. Gotta be careful of the doctrinal company one keeps.
Okay that sounds good in my thinking rc’s still a loooooooooooooooooooooooooog way from Copeland but beware of red flags
Personally I wish that RC Sproul would come off his Mt. Sinai and dialog with those who disagree with him about tithing. As a fellow PHD I know every text he can use. Only when used as proof-texts out of context can he argue his point. And I do not charge for my books and videos as long as you have the Ineternet. Russell Earl Kelly
I’m with you there Mr Kelly, but his contributions are so extensive in other areas that I recommend him in spite of this blind spot.
I wanted to personally thank you for the time and other resources you have used in order to shed light (for free) on one of the greatest deceptive teachings of our times. I came across your site over a year ago when I first begin to question this teaching. This is still by far one of the biggest methods being used by the pulpit pimps to swindle people out of their money on a residual basis. Thanks so much Bro. Kelly for what I believe is one of the most in depth teachings on biblical tithing. I highly recommend that you check out Russell Kelly’s site.
Hello guys and gals. Saw this post and wondered who would be arrested WHEN this happens in the states. How long would the list of “Wanted” be and who would be the “Most Wanted”? http://heresyhunter.blogspot.com/
Probably no one, Brah…….
It seems to me danharr that I’m always off topic here lately. But tithes is pimpery under the radar always has been and always will be. Just because R.C. Sproul says it’s a act of obedience does that make it true? They all say that to justify it because they know the word obedience will get you. As long as the kingdom of men continue to be built tithes will be preach right or wrong. Someone use to tell me that Charles Stanely teaches it o.k., yea, and. In my book it’s pimpish, no respect of persons with God Romans 2:11 or Col 3:25.
To The Family of God: Is it true that Cashflow’s name has been changed to Clepto Dollar?
I prefer Clepto myself………..descriptive and funny all at once.
Tithes were never taught in the NT, tithes are not for the NT believers, as it’s taught today its error plain and simple, tithes are not in the gospel as taught by any of the apostles. Its ERROR doesn’t matter who teaches it. A little leaven leavens the whole limp.
Tithes was given to Melchizedek by Abram, (Gen.14)coming from the slaughter of the kings, this is before the Law of Moses, so tithes do have there proper place in the church today. Tithes(Hebrew) means a “tenth part.” Tithes :are as so mentioned in the (NT) by the Lord in Lk.18:12 in the parable of Pharisee and the Tax Collector. The gospel were still under the law, because Jesus had not yet paid the sin debt. Tithes and offerings are the only means the Lord has given to take care of the church, if there were no tithes and offerings how would the gospel spread around the world, how would bibles be translated into all the different languages, I think the Lord knew what He was doing. Just because greedy preacher have made a mockery of the church, let’s focus on what we have to do, serve God. Let’s not forget some people “wrest” the scriptures (2Peter 3″16). If we would leave these corrupt ministries, they would stop their peddling.
Anonymous,
If you like to read for new information I would advise you check out Melvin’s paper on tithing or go to http://www.shouldthechurchteachtithing.com
If you would rather hear an audio teaching on this subject you may want to check out http://www.churchatheart.com under audio bible studies. I’m almost certain, if you are a serious bible student, that your opinion, on tithing being for the NT, will change.
With Love
Anonymous, I invite you to post something from the New Testament involving the tithe unless you want us to go back to sacrificing animals (which was BEFORE Melchizedek), and obeying the OTHER Laws of Moses as well (I hope you didn’t drink milk with your meal this evening. Or have bacon for breakfast.)
To Anonymous yes it was from a war before the law you are correct. But not for a church building if that’s what you mean. The Gospel would be spread like it was in Romans 10:18 by the word of mouth. Jesus never taught it so to say the Lord new what he was doing about what? Of course he new what He was doing. But we don’t that’s the part that get’s me. BTW there are no more priest like melchizedek!!
tp Anonymous:
It’s not the law (tithes) that promoted the gospel through out the world; love (as produced by the Holy Spirit),
and the expectation of the impending judgment upon Israel led to the rapid spread of the gospel.
Paul said the gospel had gone out through the entire world, no bibles were collected, no church buildings were built no
anointing conferences, no preaching kingdom principles, no gimmicks, just the Gospel.
Yup…………it’s always “We HAVE to raise these outrageous amounts of money to reach the world!!!” Good grief, we’ve raised TRILLIONS for the Gospel over the centuries. How much do you think ever made it to the actual Great Commission.
Same today. Folks sending their money out for foolishness.
i’m writing a book titled the NT Grace of Giving. I believe that tithing in the OT is translated giving in the NT. Tithes in the OT were agricultural pdts, not money. Tithes were a part of the lawful sacrificial & offering system in which priest and animal worked together to create a redeemption system, which was done away with when Jesus fulfilled the law. Tithes were the offering portion that was given to the priests as gifts for their work in the temple. Again, please note that tithes were agricultural pdts. If you’re going to follow tithing laws of the OT why not give agricultural pdts as opposed to money. That elaborate system did not transfer to the NT, that’s why it so much confusion concerning this issue. Because the church is trying to fit old covenant laws into the new covenant grace grace.
I’ve been hearing a lot about Jamal Bryant ****** **.
(MN: Putting something like this out here borders too closely to promoting gossip and speculation. Deal with his doctrine or legal troubles (like Weeks and Bynum). )
I do not mean to be digging in mess or confusion here but I, too, have heard the rumbling rumors about our “beloved” Jamal Harrison Bryant and if those rumors are true, he should be escorted off of “Empowerment” Temple’s premises with the quickness.Those are troubling allegations, but I do not put nothing past Mr. Unsound Doctrine.
Okay but my question is do we run screaming from good guys like Sproul and Stanly over this issue or do we judge them as a whole? Men who normally don’t talk about or even stress tithes or financial matters.
Danharr, I believe the difference comes when the disagreements are not over the essentials of the faith. Both tithers and non tithers will go to Heaven if they are in Christ. We can debate within the confines of historic orthodoxy here, and retain fellowship.
Sproul also teaches an eschatology I don’t subscribe to, but he is good on other subjects.
Dudes like Klepto Dollar and Benny Hinn are off on the essentials.
Gary V,
I think the false teaching of tithing is different, to a certain degree, than other non essential teachings. I could easily excuse someone who may not be able to read and correctly study the Word. But for some of these so called theologians who hold advanced degrees in this, I can’t so easily excuse. Afterall, this is probably the most common teaching in most churches today. Even more common than the salvation message. Everytime these churches have services, you most likely will hear an appeal for tithes and offerings. For this teaching to be this common but have no New Testament backing makes me wonder if these teachers are just alot more subtle than the more flagarant wolves. It’s funny how all of the apologetics websites like this one and so many others, are all in agreement on this being a false teaching.
(MN: Yeah, but we’re just stingy people who aren’t willing to give God His due. )
Well, I would hope that’s not the case Jon. But one never knows, do one??
Charles Stanley and Eddie Long are starting to morph into the same being in some ways.
And Stanley’s marital issues don’t exactly fit the “rules his house well” (I Timothy 3) standard for church leadership.
RC Sproul also teaches infant baptism. ERROR BEGATS ERROR!
When a Protestant starts acting like a Catholic LOOK OUT!
It is not baptism as a result of “salvation” as people under the faith of Christ would recieve it. It is merely another means of child dedication. Child baptism within the PCA (Presbyterian Church in America- a vast difference between the liberal luke warm Presbyterian Church USA) is a means of calling responsibility to both the parent and child.
For the parent- it is the biblical responsibility to raise and nuture their children in the ways of the Lord (similar in covenant style between God and Abraham and his house).
For the child- the responsibility to recieve the LAW of GOD, to respect their parents as God has given them, and to take away any excuses from the child to “run amuck” as if they did not know the LAW.
Child baptism in no way implies salvation as being granted to the child. There are variations within the church body that teach that ie Catholics, Lutherans. However, this is no error it just respects the covenantal idea that as God has provided his covenantal grace towards the Hebrews then to the Gentiles. The Hebrews were given circumcision, the Gentiles were given baptism. There are certain scriptures (ie Col 2:11-12) that show the relationship between the two.
Give me some time, I am trying to write up an understanding of it in more detail. If you check my blog from time to time you may see it up.
As far as the tithe goes, it is not a means of demanding and frightening members to give under the old testament manner in order to coerce the congregation. Sproul has said himself that would be dangerous. But what he does (in similar case to baptism) is take something that was done in the Old testament and relate it to practices in the New.
Now we all know that tithing is not commanded in the New Testament, but we also know that it was not implicitly done away with. Tithing for a Christian would be to give cheerfully, what God has placed in his heart to give. To give above what was required under the Law in a manner that exceeded the righteousness of the pharisees (in respect to what they are able to do). There is no begging of the tithe, no shuffling of the $100 lines, no robbing God’s people, no pushing people to do more than what they are able to do. It is merely a call to remember what God has called us to support. This is not a means for pastors to get rich, or to build lavish tombs, but to truly support the work of God, ie care for the poor, widows, and to take care of the church body.
Hope this helps to put an understanding as to why things are done a certain way in the PCA.
Bro JOG,
Thanks for your explanation. However, I still see something wrong with infant baptism for whatever reason it is done.
This act is done alongside the same practice in the Catholic Church and how is one unlearned about this “tradition” to know the difference? In fact, because it is just that, a tradition, it warrants explanation outside of biblical basis, which is itself dangerous. Traditions are usually defended inductively. The practitioners are forced to contort scripture to show the validity of a practice that is not expressly demonstrated in the text. Let’s look at the explanation you gave and take notice:
(JOG) It is not baptism as a result of “salvation” as people under the faith of Christ would recieve it. It is merely another means of child dedication. Child baptism within the PCA (Presbyterian Church in America- a vast difference between the liberal luke warm Presbyterian Church USA) is a means of calling responsibility to both the parent and child.
(BLD) Well brother, as far as scripture or historical evidence goes, the only baptisms that were not done as a result of salvation were those that were done either in the old covenant for Gentile proselytes, or those done by John the Baptist. So far as my understanding goes, even in these instances, children do not seem to have been involved, although they could have been.
(JOG) For the parent- it is the biblical responsibility to raise and nuture their children in the ways of the Lord (similar in covenant style between God and Abraham and his house).
(BLD) While I agree whole heartedly with this statement, it does not in anyway imply that infant baptism should be done as a testimony or public confession to demonstrate agreement with it. In fact, one should just as easily be able to assume that “Christian” parents would raise their children in such a manner.
(JOG) For the child- the responsibility to recieve the LAW of GOD, to respect their parents as God has given them, and to take away any excuses from the child to “run amuck” as if they did not know the LAW.
(BLD) First a question, what age should the child be if the purpose of the baptism is to alert them to this responsibility? Secondlly, does the child that is not baptized have any excuses to “run amuck” or disrespect parents?
Again, this tradition seems to be just an unnecessary formalism creating a facade of piety. Remember the “Puritan Dream” or “Calvin’s Geneva”? The covenantal community has never worked because all people need an act of grace, from God, on their hearts in order to live in covenant with Him. This includes children.
(JOG)Child baptism in no way implies salvation as being granted to the child. There are variations within the church body that teach that ie Catholics, Lutherans. However, this is no error it just respects the covenantal idea that as God has provided his covenantal grace towards the Hebrews then to the Gentiles. The Hebrews were given circumcision, the Gentiles were given baptism. There are certain scriptures (ie Col 2:11-12) that show the relationship between the two.
(BLD) If this is true, that it in no way implies salvation, then it further demonstrates the utter uselessness of the practice and the reasonableness for the confusion over it. So whether the Catholics, Lutherans, or Presbyterians do it, it is or at least leads to error. By the way, yes the Hebrews were given circumcision but ALL BELIEVERS IN CHRIST were given baptism, not just Gentiles. Even the scripture that you cited puts forth this idea.
(JOG) Give me some time, I am trying to write up an understanding of it in more detail. If you check my blog from time to time you may see it up.
(BLD) I’ll gladly wait for your write up. If it’s on your blog just let us know. Although, I don’t at this point think that you’ll be able to escape the traditional context. And this applies to tithing also.
Fellow theologians,
I have recently posted an audio teaching on the observance of water baptism and communion. In my current understanding on these subjects, I find myself at odds with the common belief that the observance of water baptism and Communion/Lord’s Supper is mandatory for the Body of Christ. I would love for some serious feedback to my current teachings on these subjects. Please check them out in the audio bible studies page at http://www.churchatheart.com
To BLD you did a great job on those issues. Yep traditions always seem to pop up it’s ulgy head. JOg I know you didn’t mean no harm but the baptism is unbibical, and the tithes is unbibical in the N.T. no way around it.
I agree with Bro DL on this one JOG. Infant baptism is Scripturally unsupportable. Tradition is a wonderful thing, but it should not modify or impose upon the Lord’s commands or teachings.
Baptism in the NT (post John The Baptist) is exclusively for those who have personally come to a saving knowledge of Christ. To strip it of that requirement in order to use it as a “tradition” demeans its meaning and symbolism when ACTUAL Biblical baptism is performed.
I find it odd that a church that won’t let the unsaved partake of Communion WILL allow those without saving faith to be baptized.
Should we take sacraments with fixed Biblical meanings and requirements and blithely waive them so we can change their meaning and perform them on people who do not meet the requirements?? If so, why not serve Communion wafers with a little onion dip and salsa at the next church supper??
Anyway, I know YOU didn’t come up with the practice. Just trying to see both sides brother.
Obviously, Baptism does not save anyone…..& for those baptizing their children thinking such, that’s error.
However, all Baptism symbolizes is a covenant sign of being identified with the Gospel…..& with that in mind, there doesn’t seem to be anything wrong with those who baptize their children simply to show that they desire them to be identified with CHRIST.
Infant baptism seems reasonable to do since babies were circumcised & brought into a covenant relationship with God in the Old Testament (Gen. 12-17). …..& as some believe, the Abrahamic covenant under which the infants were circumcised is still valid because of its label as the Gospel (Galatians 3:8)
Is the observance of water baptism and communion mandated from scripture or just another church ritual? And are there any additional physical ordinances that must me observed by the Body of Christ? Water baptism seems to be connected to Jewish water purification ritual and communion to the Jewish Passover meal. Communion instructed to Apostles for the spiritual understanding of the Passover observance. For He was the Lamb, and now it was to be observed by the Jews with rememberance of Him and no longer only by the symbolic representation of the Exodus mandated obsdervance. I believe most are in agreement that these ordiances are only symbolic of spiritual things but are there any mandated ordinances for the Church to now observe? I understand Acts as being party an historic account of the transition from living under Old Covenant Law and New Testament Grace.
I wasn’t aware of that Bro D………but you are correct about the corrosive effect of error.
The teaching of tithing to God, in obedience, in the NT is just preposterous! First, the tithe was under the Mosaic Law which was given to Israel (Jews); not Gentiles. Second, we are not under the Law, we are under grace. Third, while Paul was on his missionary journey, he did not impress on the Gentiles to tithe at all. Why would Paul impress on the Gentiles a Jewish Law after the dispute was settled at the Jerusalem Council that Gentiles were not to carry the burden of the Law? In addition, with Paul being a Pharisee having full knowledge of the Law,wouldn’t you think if it was essential for the NT believer to tithe, he would have included that in at least 1 of his 13 Epistles?
If anyone chooses tithe; good for them! But it should not be taught that one must tithe to be in obedience towards God.Whoever is teaching this doctrine either is a pimp or misinformed; either is pretty detrimental when we are referring to the truth of God. I guess when it comes to money, this fundamental doctrine gets misconstrued.
I’m still a bit young in my walk (17 yrs. old), but I’m trying to take in as much of the word as I possibly can as soon as I can. I find alot of the entries on this website intriguing and commend the author for caring enough to expose false teachers.
But this issue with Tithing is what really intrigues me. I’ve been taught to give 10% every Sunday for all of my life, so accepting change is indeed difficult. If I don’t tithe, I feel as if I’ve robbed God. Guess that whole “Where have ye robbed me, in Tithes and Offerings” scripture has been pretty well installed in me. But my question is, if Tithing is not required, for lack of a better word, why is it so globally recognized? What scripture in the Bible has nearly EVERY church in the world convinced that Tithing is mandatory? What has so many convinced?
Shalom Alechem TJ,
I know what you mean, been there. The way “the church” rip out words from their context and then apply their definition violates basic reading comprehension. The bibles definition contradicts the conventional definition of tithe. Tithes and offerings were always food but could be exchange for money if the traveler was a long distance away from Temple. However, upon arrival he would have to reconvert that money into animal/fruits/grains etc.
Check out another viewpoint on tithing at
http://www.shouldthechurchteachtithing.com
Rightly handle The Word,
Aviyshalom
http://www.ffoz.org
TJ,
I also have done a pretty in depth audio study on tithing that would probably benefit you. It is completly free to listen too and download so check it out!
http://www.churchatheart.com
Tj,
Run form this site as fast as you can and don’t look back,they will only confuse you and I will show you with three questions for the people on this site. 1.How do you do jude 20. 2.Can women preach according to gal3:26,27. 3.If john jenkins is soooo wrong why are you going to visit his church if his doctrine is soooo wrong?A little leaven leaveneth the whole loaf Tj.
(MN: So are you saying, since there is neither male nor female, that it’s okay for me to marry a guy that I happen to be really fond of? Why do folks like you insist on twisting a verse so you can do what you want and then ignoring other verses that tell you things you don’t want to hear?
There’s not much point in asking the first question given that you ar, I assume, seriously asking the third. I am not going to be taught at the Grand Opening. I’m going to collect information and report back to you, the readers. You phrase would better be used on a person who says “I know he preaches error, but I can pick out the bones and swallow the meat. ” )
TJ,
If churches today were to read Heb 7 to their congregation, they would have to shut down and go out of business. Therefore they’ll use Mal 3 to stay in business.
TJ,
You can find my free 10 part video series ‘The Truth About Tithing’ at http://www.inyourbible.com. You can also download 4 worksheets that will help you follow along with the study.
George Greene
Thanks for posting the site, Brah. Really appreciated the work you put into it.
Blessings…..
Hey Melvin,
Just got off FBCG website and it looks like they’ll be rolling out the red carpet during there first week at the new worship center. Your favorite pimp, T. Dexter Jakes, will make a grand apperance on 9/19/07. So Get Ready Get Ready Get Ready……
(MN: I’ll probably be coming out with a new post this evening. I’m afraid I just couldn’t leave it alone. I guess the sheeple are right - I do obsess on this guy. Sigh. )
Just wanted everyone to know that I received an eblast this morning from blackgospelpromo and it states that Juanita Bynum will be making an Exclusive appearance tonight on TBN. I don’t know about you but it truly grieves my heart how they are still promoting her in all this mess but again I guess I should not be surprised. I am going to watch just to see what she has to say and how she may say she had an experience with God the last few days and he told her something you know the blah blah blah
For those against tithing,
Obviously, it is incorrect to say that Christians are REQUIRED to tithe, for the NT doesn’t say such.
However, seeing that GREATEST standard to evaluate our giving is the commandment to love the Lord our God & our neighbors as ourselves (Matthew 22:34-40, Luke 10:25-37, Romans 13:8-10, Galatians 5:13-14), does this mean that faithful tithing cannot fall short of Christian GENEROSITY ( II Corinthians 8-9)?
(MN: No, it doesn’t. However, it does mean that we give as God would move in each of our hearts. You’re still saying I’m stealing from God if I don’t give at LEAST 10 percent. Still not right. )
Or that Christians’ are FORBIDDEN to tithe, & all members making a FREE CHOICE to support their churches with it are WRONG……?
(MN: Here’s the deal - each member, each Christian at the local assembly can give as little or as much as they wish and they are not stealing from God. On the other hand, a maturing Christian will do with his money as God wishes, whether that might be supporting the local assembly’s place of assembly, giving his time and treasure to promote the gospel, provide help to other Chirstians [as God would lead], and a host of other things. God wants our entire heart, soul and body, not just 10% of my paycheck.
A slightly different way of looking at it is this: What do I owe God for saving me? The answer: NOTHING. If I owed Him anything for saving me, then His salvation would not have been of Grace. But as a result of His saving me, I am willing to do anything He may ask of me. That may include all of my check, my time, etc.
Setting an amount interferes with the individual believer’s dependence on the leading of God. )
(MN: You’re still saying I’m stealing from God if I don’t give at LEAST 10 percent. Still not right. )
Never said that, Brah….please don’t put words in my mouth (though if I did & haven’t noticed, please point it out)…..
Though I agree with your statement of how setting amounts will hinder dependence on God’s leading…..for Using a tithe (10%) as a gauge for giving carries the potential to prove arbitrary/misleading, since the commandment to LOVE GOD shouldn’t be reduced to giving mere percentages of one’s incomes
Will share more later…….
Also, are we saying it’s not illustrative for today (to which I disagree since we’re called to “give as we are blessed” (II Corinthians 9:10) and it can serve to teach proportionality and regularity in a thoughtful and faithful manner)
Or that ALL preachers encouraging their congregations to be generous in giving ARE as WRONG as those manipulating congregations by MANDATING TITHING? (MN: Come on Gdub. Surely you can see that encouraging someone to be generous is not the same as mandating the tithe. Why would someone think they are as wrong? You keep doing this - running down the road no one was going and then taking up our time with nonsense posts. Pay attention. )
Moreover, seeing that we’re to be fair in our assessments & hear all sides of the issue, (Proverbs 24:23, Proverbs 18:15 ), what to make of the testimonies of those truly blessed practicing tithing?
(MN: How is it that I have to hear the side of someone who contradicts scrpture? Fair is not an end in itself. )
Are their stories FALSE/ INVALID simply because of those abusing tithing?
(MN: So how do you prove they were blessed because they tithed? The best you can do is demonstrate that they were blessed while tithing (as the modern Christian defines tithing, remembering that if they were only giving 10 percent instead of thirty, or giving money instead produce and livestock, they weren’t really tithing. So how could they have been blessed because of tithing?)
@Double G….
You said….Moreover, seeing that we’re to be fair in our assessments & hear all sides of the issue, (Proverbs 24:23, Proverbs 18:15 ), what to make of the testimonies of those truly blessed practicing tithing?
Me: This is where I take issue with the false teaching of tithing, and other’s tithing ‘testimonies’. How can anyone, or even you, rationalize that they were blessed because of their regulated tithing? How can anyone know that, what they considered their blessing was a result of their tithing? This is where man crosses the line and sets himself up too highly, to surmise that he could know the mind of God (Isaiah 55:8). It is insane.
This becomes the doctrine of devils that says, “you must give to get”; and, from there it’s, “you don’t give enough, and that’s why you don’t have what you need/want”. The next thing you know, someone, somewhere, is questioning the Sovereignty of God because they’re measuring their lives against the wealth of another.
I spent the first 30 years of my life, listening to ministers that I was “instructed” to listen to; never really much hearing that I should seek God for myself. These last fifteen have been spent in a purely intimate relationship with Christ without the hinderance of man-made ordinances concerning my faith walk.
I do not tithe, but I give according to, what I have, the needs of others, or by the unction of the Lord’s Holy Spirit. Now, I have a testimony of how the Lord has blessed me; shall I attribute it to my non-tithing practices? God forbid! As with all things concerning man, it is by the grace and mercy of God that any are saved, blessed, and kept.
Ministers, and teachers of tithing, force others to give grudingly; and, this includes by guilt, twisted Scripture, or on the unfounded testimonies of those who claim blessings by tithing. This is not a part of the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
G2 I stand with MN as you can see on this one. Your reason is no different than the rest trying to justify it. The church which we have to get right is the body wich we all know by now. IT’s 96% building
and 4% people with the money issue maybe that’s to high in the united states. These are not little temples my friend that Jesus said to do in his memo