I hadn’t been bothering Hagee. Maybe it was because he uses Clarence Larkin’s diagrams when he preaches. Or maybe it was because he tells some pretty good jokes.
Yeah, a couple of months ago Profitess Bind’em appeared on his show. But I am gracious enough to look at that as an anomaly. And yes, he does apparently teach a dual track to salvation (I believe it’s called “Dual Covenant”). But that doesn’t necessarily make you an unprincipled pimp.
However, a couple of days ago, while cruising around the pimps’ sites, I came across a picture of Hagee and Copeland, together, on Copeland’s show. Hanging with Kenee DOES make you a pimp, or a a minimum a PS, or Pimp Suspect.
Here a picture of the loving couple together.
I looked at the picture and thought: “You know, that might no be Hagee. Maybe it’s another one of Kennee’s pimp friends. ” So I looked a little deeper into Kennee’s site and came up with this - click here.
As you can see, Kennee did indeed have Hagee on his show. Always remember: In the Land of Pimp, you are known by the company you keep.
Sigh. One more name is officially added to the Pimp List. One more target has been identified and is being tracked. At this rate, my targeting system is going to be overwhelmed within the year.
I mentioned here a while back (and linked to my post in a comment) that John Hagee is totally into the prosperity doctrine in the worst possible ways imaginable. (MN: Okay, so I’m a little slow on the uptake. )
That clip I captured was from a portion of a multi-part series he did on getting rich. He sells these supposed “secrets” on his web site.
During that sermon I captured, he talked about how he wrote down everything he wanted and worked till he got it. Using his “secrets”. On his show he called the series Write it down: The Seven Principles of Prosperity.
He’s even got a book titled The Seven Secrets. (released in 2005)
You didn’t know it, but Hagee is a mack from way back
.
And given his “dual covenant” heresy, that trashes all the efforts of the apostles and Jesus in ministering the Gospel to Jews, Hagee is a false christ. He’s made up his own covenant in place of the true and only covenant now in existence, the new covenant brought with the blood of the Lord Jesus Christ, Hebrews 8:13.
By the way IC, he also says that if you don’t vote (Republican), you’re bowing to Satan. Sound familiar.
I would call John Hagee a Prosperity Preaching Political Pulpit Pimp. 5x OP (Original Pimp)
Hagee also was preaching healthy eating, yet why can someone so unhealthy and obese do it first before preaching about it?
remember the time when he had a man on his show sell the Zoe8 weight loss program?
I would have to agree. Hagee has always been false. If you are not completly true you are false. I do not believe in somethings he says are true and some false. The bible says no lie is of the truth!!!!
Well, Lets just say like a good train wreck sometimes you just have to turn on the TV to watch TBN. Besides the obvious gaffs of dual covenant John Hagee made my jaw drop one day. I actually look forward to his large backdrop of pictures regarding the end times. He does put on quite a presentation. That being said this one time that I watched him and YES he was talking about the Law of Reciprocity. It was all about giving to get. So Melvin yes it is true that even Hagee has fell into the trap.
Kyle
Melvin, Melvin, Melvin … I can’t believe you were not aware that this buffoon-of-buffoons, John Hagee, is a pimp-of-pimps as well. A multimillionaire (to the tune of more than a million bucks a year in salary alone), Scripture twister (his dual-covenant views are only the beginning), hypocrite (check out how how well he hides his failed former marriage and his infidelity that led to it–all the while railing on the world’s immorality) and all-around word-faith heavyweight (literally and figuratively).
(MN: Well (he whined), remember, I don’t go out looking for people to entertain you with. Even when I do find stuff, I at least try to give them the benefit of the doubt.
However, now that the Pimp Heresy Uncovering Network [PHUN] has detected him, I expect to have more to say about him in the future. Tsk, tsk, tsk - so many pimps, so little time.
By the way, welcome back. I haven’t heard from you in quite a while. )
Good to be back. I’ve kept reading, but haven’t commented in a while. Now that I’m no longer as closely associated with the pimps myself as I was, I may be commenting even more …
Hey Eucatastrophe!! Nice to see you back brother!!
you are the buffoon, if you look to this man and dont see he speaks the truth of gods word.john hagee is just the mouth piece, you need to keep your eyes on the message, or maybe thats the problem you dont believe the message. i know this you will one day.
(MN: I worked hard at not looking at the somewhat corpulent messenger and listened to the message. Alternate avenues of salvation, pimping with Copeland and his crowd, suggestions that Jesus did not come to be the savior of the Jews. Nah. Even the message is bad. Buffoon? I think not. You may want to examine who Hagee hangs with and his message. )
Melvin, you really need to stop. Because you agree to appear on someone’s show and dialogue does not make someone a “pimp”. It seems as though when you run out of rude and mean spirited things to say, you begin “reaching” for anything.
(MN: I would have taken exactly that attitude were it not for the fact that Copeland is not simply a pentecostal [I have been a guest with pentecostal hosts], he actively and agressively preaches another gospel. It is known that he preaches another gospel. I can see, just from looking around a little [now that he has attracted my attention], that he does indeed present a prosperity type gospel.
As I said in the posting: “who you keep company with DOES define you whether you want it to or not.
Besides, I still have lots of rude and mean-spirited things to say. There is no reason to “reach.” )
Derrick,
Please read IC’s post. Hagee DOES preach the prosperity gospel. I too saw that presentation. Why beat up on Melvin when all he did was ask the question. We were the ones who responded with facts to the claim. Derrick please do a Google search on Hagee and you will see that he does in fact teach the prosperity gospel. Or better yet go click on the websites that IC so graciously put on his post. Don’t yell at Melvin just point and click on the sites IC has given.
Kyle
What about K.C. and Betty Price, Juanita Bynum, and Timothy Flemimg? They could possibly be in this category could they?
Derrick………..
2Jo 1:9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ (like Copeland), hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. 2Jo 1:10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine (like Copeland), receive him not into [your] house (nor certainly share a stage with him, giving him credibility), neither bid him God speed (like by selling tape sets of pernicious error with him):
2Jo 1:11 For he that biddeth him God speed (like Hagee) is partaker of his (Copeland’s) evil deeds.
Hagee is a heretic, for teaching the dual covenant false doctrine. Jews and Gentiles alike, must come to Christ. His belief that Jews don’t have to be saved, and that Christ never preached to the Jews, is to me, the worst type of anti-semitic drivel you can conjure up.
Also, like other preachers like Jakes, White, and the like, their too carnal in their teachings, and their displays. No, Hagee, in my opinion, is a pimp, who is well fed: just look at him!
Seekerman,
Don’t hold back. Tell us how you really feel. LOL!
Note from a friend of mine— King David had billions, and Solemon was also rich. Abraham was riche too. Also note- a pastor can be rich and God wants us to prosper.. your thougts on this Melvin thanks.
(MN: It’s the “God WANTS us to be prosper [as in financial prospering] that gives me pause. Was Paul rich? How about Peter, John, Barnabas, Thomas, Aquilla and Priscilla, Stephen, Phillip, the saints in Jerusalem, the saints in Macedonia, Jesus, Aabus the prophet, and a host of others? Does the subject of financial prosperity come up in the New Testament? Does the subject of expected persecution of Christians ever come up in the New Testament? )
The difference between those old testament figures, and the folks in the new testament, lay in the fact that in the Old Testament, God was building an earthly nation or theocracy, which would’ve required his subjects to possess great amounts of wealth.
In the New Testament, God was no longer nation building, but rather, he was concentrating on building spiritual temples, thus you have the new testament characters not being shown as having much, materially-but possessing great spiritual riches and gifts.
I believe that God can prosper you materially, but the prospering you may receive may be relegated to the area of having your basic needs met, or to the area of possessing many material things. Which ever state you find yourself, be thankful to God, and realize that what you have, ultimately comes from the favor of the Lord, to where you can’t really boast all proud and whatnot.
Also let’s not forget that just because a fellow christian may be more financially blessed than another fellow christian, doesn’t mean that the financially blessed christian, is more closer to God, than the one who isn’t as financially blessed. This type of thinking produces elitism and ungodly partiality that the book of James warns us against.
The modern day church is too materialistic, and out for self, and will only do good things, so that God can bless them, as opposed to performing good deeds-BECAUSE CHRIST HAS CHANGED YOU WITHIN!
The prosperity doctrine flourishes on people having no understanding of the difference between the old and new covenants. Not understanding that what was witnessed in the physical for Jews in the Old Testament was just a physical archetype for what Christ provides access to in the spiritual realm. The old covenant is passed and under the new it’s not about material wealth, but many don’t get it because they don’t understand the difference between the two covenants. This is what Hagee capitalizes on in some ways more than other pimps.
Jesus also was not living the life of a wealthy man while on earth in flesh. It does not matter how much money anybody in the OT had, because for us it’s got nothing to do with making earthly cash. Satan attempted to tempt the Lord Jesus with earthly riches and Jesus turned it down for something greater.
Right on point IC. Seems like some like to use the OT to justify martial blessings while at the same time applying the spiritual blessings of the NT, isn’t it interesting how God separated the two.
Marcus,
Where in the NT do you see anyone with material gain off the Gospel? Where in the NT does Jesus preach the prosperity gospel? When did Paul or Peter preach the prosperity gospel? Also, the afore mentioned examples in the Bible which you gave none of them preached the prosperity message. There is no sin in being wealthy but no where is it taught that God wishes you to be wealthy. Marcus you need to realize that you area sinner that is in need of Jesus. You need to focus on repentance, dying daily, being humble, to love others, and to stand up to truth in a very sinful world. Pimps and their followers never talk about service, righteousness, living a Godly life, or repentance. It is ALL about gimme gimme gimme. I want I want I want. I need I need I need. Like little babies crying out to the Lord for more milk and yet never full. It is time to grow up and become a real man of God living a Godly life whose focus is not on worldly possessions but looking towards the glorious day when we will be in our perfect glorified body likened unto Christ eternal. You should focus on preaching the Good News to a dark world in hopes that some would heed the Gospel message and escape damnation. As you can tell my writing is a complete dichotomy compared to the Prosperity Gospel whose focus is on the HEAR an NOW. The focus is on those things which are temporal and will be destroyed eventually. Marcus, you mentioned King David and Solomon. Where are there riches today? There either destroyed or are locked up in a museum in Jerusalem as an example of antiquity. Marcus the glory of things to come out way the most opulent riches this earth has to offer. Remember that you know where your heart is by your desires. Is it focused on things of this world? Or, is it focused on things to come?
Kyle
here we go again, with the category error. Or should I say spelling error. I have to go through this routine frequently when the issue of women pastors come up and Deborah, Joel’s prophecy come forward as evidence. allow me to elaborate
David was a King K-I N-G
Soloman was a King K-I-N-G
Abraham a partriarch
Pastor is spelled P-A-S-T-O-R
Let’s avoid the error of comparing civil rulers to those in places of spiritual authority.
apples to apples
Melvin you said the rest
Melvin– I forgot to mention– what about the building fund?
(MN: ?!? )
Opps, sorry about that– the church building fund– I remember as a little boy the envelopes being collected for the church building fund and 10 years later, the same envelopes are still passing to the bucket and the church is still falling apart at the seams. Are most building funds a sham? Thanks
I can’t say I know if money given for the “building” is abused, but I do know the focus on that “building” is outside of the will of God.
Notice in the NT, that all giving is directed to those in need. Ministry was done without owning any buildings to hold gatherings for meetings. Today instead of the primary focus being the needs of poor saints and possibly benevolent ministry outreach to others if funds are available, the focus is on the building and mass media.
I say every time a Christian runs to government looking for aid to a poor Christian, it’s like the church screaming that it squanders all the money and fails in it’s duty.
Notice these passas drain the members dry, then run and use government as the source of benevolence. It’s like Paul running to Caesar to fund poor saints. Totally backwards, but many don’t see it. Then you’ve got this guy Hagee and his twisted notions that he can influence government into certain military efforts as some “plan of God”.
I’m telling you, it’s a mess. A total mess.
Of course I’m not shy about military efforts, but I don’t go around saying that God declared it in the book of Ester either. Hagee really thinks he can invoke the 2nd coming of Christ.
I mean if we are talking Hagee, it had to hit politics at some point…
IC,
Well said Brother. Amen to that.
Kyle
10 year building fund, that’s infancy. Look in the Guiness Book of records under Church, scroll down to longest buiding fund drive and you will find my former church listed. When I first visited in 1980 the building fund drive was going on full force. Today 2007 that building fund drive is still going on. No not all a shams but many are misquided, ill directed and just another source of funds for the leadership.
C’mon now Cryloud………..didn’t the pastor there refer you to the Jewish Temple of Herod?? That project took over 80 years.
Or did he use Noah’s Ark to justify the interminable money grab?? Some scholars think that this building project went on for 120 years.
It took me about 15 seconds to come up with a typical Pimp-justification for this, twisting the Bible like a pretzel in the process. I’m getting scared.
You should be Gary V…..out of the abondance of the heart the mouth speaks………that is how you do most of the scripture. And you made it look like that was just for this purpose….very good
I’ve been watching the Biblical Ignorami like you do it so long I can do it in my sleep.
You know, there’s always someone like you who claims they don’t agree with what I post from Scripture, but as usual none of you ever actually go through the Scriptures and point it out.
Feel free to do more than just drool on your keyboard next time. Prove it FDM.
OK Marcus………..we’ve got Job, Abraham, Lot, David, and Solomon specifically noted for their prosperity. There may be a few others, but those are them biggies.
The Bible covers thousands of years of recorded history, and we have about 5 noted rich guys.
NOW………….since we no longer live under the Old Covenant, let’s see how many the Lord mentions in the New Testament, shall we??
Errrrrrrrr………there’s those He mentions who only give in the Temple with trumpets and fanfare, which He hates. No………..that’s not a good one for ya.
There’s the rich young ruler………nah, even worse than the last bunch.
There’s the rich man who is mentioned as being in hell while poor Lazarus was comforted. Ummmmmm…..going from bad to worse.
There are the Herods………nope.
There are those who allow themselves to be given special treatment in the church while the poor sit on the floor. Uh uh.
There are those rich guys whom James said would weep and howl for the miseries coming upon them. Not getting any better.
OK then………..that was a dismal failure. Well, since the belief seems to be that those whom God loves and who exercise faith in Him will prosper financially, maybe we can find some verses which deal with the faithful that God specifically honors by naming them in the New Testament. How about Hebrews 11, where God honors the faithful by making all of them filthy rich and healthy.
Wait………….you can’t find that in Hebrews. There are a couple of rich guys in there, but that chapter is almost exclusively devoted to those whose faith God honored by having them go about naked, destitute, hungry, cold, rejected, in rags, and martyred.
Almost exclusively,the New Testament offers WARNINGS about wealth, seeking wealth, the deceitfulness of wealth, and hoarding wealth. We are commanded to be content with food, clothing and shelter.You will NEVER find a promise of wealth to all, nor will you find a formula to obtain wealth, as if God HAD to make you wealthy if you did A,B,and C.
As for a “building fund” that’s another concept absent from the New Testament. What we have today are egomaniacal “pastors” who, rather than disciple young men to send out with the Gospel,build bigger sanctuaries at astronomical cost as a temple to THEMSELVES.
They HOARD sheep rather than allow the overflow to be shepherded by other men trained for that duty. It’s an atrocious waste of resources. I’ve seen estimates run as high as 80% of resources being used on average just to maintain buildings and programs within churches. That’s sinful. That leaves 20% for actually spreading the Gospel. As I said, it’s atrocious. (MN: Not only the spreading of the Gospel, but the building up of men to disciple other men to develop and mature other men. A church should, in my opinion, be constantly splitting and losing men and women as they leave to start small fellowships in other places. )
Hey I know we are talking about Hagee and that brother has been off for years for hanging with Benny Hinn and others a few years ago. However, it hurt my heat last Sunday when Michael Youseff was on the tithe stuff. He said and I quote “a lot of people in this church are driving stolen cars, wearing stolen clothes and living in stolen houses” he went on to quote Malachi 3 and said that if you are not tithing you are crook and you will be cursed! No lie.
Hey check out this link everybody. There are some good people on this list. Check out Chuck Swindoll and Hank Hannegraf who both pay their wives over $100K to lead their non-profit ministries (Chuck come on man!)
Mr Woods,
Thats a shame. Youseff was on point and I really liked to hear him preach. What a shame that even he is taking the bate.
Kyle
Mr. Woods, what link?
Having lived in Atlanta and spending time right in that area where Michael Youssef’’s “church” is, I leaned that guy was no good. I didn’t say his name, but in my post about the Widows mite scam, it was Michael Youssef who had a broadcast where he preached up and down how wonderful it is to give that “last mite” and then had a singer sing a song about it. The man will drain you for your last penny if you let him.
Having seen his BUILDING, you can tell he’s about flash and cash. The thing looks like a giant Gothic cathedral. On the radio he brags about his various ministries, but that man is rolling dough to places you don’t see unless you drive by his main building. And since he’s not as well known as Creflo and Eddie Long, the local media does not bother him at all.
Now that you know better, Kyle, listen to his broadcast closely and you’ll start realizing he’s not quite as sound as you might have once thought he was.
IC,
You still have to admit that it is a shame that there are so many subtle pimps out there. I would love to find a Church that is focused on delivering the Gospel message and helping those less fortunate. I wish John Coleman was a Pastor in my area or at least someone similar. Although its nice to go on websites and encounter fellow believers there is nothing like actually meeting people who speak the truth of Jesus Christ in person. Oh well, one day we will definitely meet in our glorified bodies. Until then it’s across the internet I guess.
Kyle
When I hung out with the “masses” at the “mega” churches, I noticed the Bible always spoke of a “remnant”. I tried not to think about it much and figured America was doing great. I mean the “mega” parking lot was full, so all is good is what I thought. Since then I’ve been disappointed to discover truths like we discuss here and saddened that instead of “masses” there really is a “remnant”.
And the last thing I’ll say about Michael Youssef…for now. Is that he has what I consider to be a leisure suit gospel. I mean, he teaches IMHO as if we should live just like the rest of the world, minus the smoking and drinking and such, just live like the rest of the world and tell somebody about Jesus along the way. But this really misses the point of outreach. Youssef acts as if the outreach can be taken care of by sending him money to do it. It dismisses that we are all supposed to do our part.
Call me the crazy Christian, but I beleive that we should be challenging ourselves to each do more to reach out to those in need. Am I supposed to watch others always do the prison ministry, or do I continually challenge myself to work up to it? Listening to someone like Youssef I feel no challenge to do more myself. He leads me to feel others have the rest covered and I can just go about life, happy with Jesus all the day. I find this does not agree with all the efforts in scripture to encourage saints to spread the ministry of the Lord Jesus Christ. They were persecuted because they continually evangelized. Today in our own society people are starting to dislike Christians who share their faith. I guess life as a Christian can be pretty sweet if you keep it all to yourself.
no he does not. I have heard maaaaaany M. Youseff messages and he certainly encourages serving. HOwever, u must keep in mind that everyone is not called to every ministry. I don’t do prison ministry because I don’t have the heart or compassion for it, but I do for homeless shelters, youth, and the ever confused homosexual community. So everyone is not called to every ministry, but we all have assignments like the Bible said. Different parts of the body w/ different functions, but all are important to spreading and supporting the gospel. Ya’ll a trip.
You like him, keep him for yourself. I assure you, it will come to light more in time.
True we each have our roles and no one man can do everything. Nobody is suggesting that. My view of the man stands based on my own listening and viewing of him.
Just because you do certain roles today, does not mean you are not to strive to do more and better in time.
IC, Here is the link
http://www.freegoodnews.com/2006/12/reformation_200.html
OOOOOooooo………..yeah Mr Woods, that DOES hurt. Hank I knew about, Chuck and Youseff I didn’t know.
Well Hank, Chuck, and Sproul are for the most part top notch doctrinally as far as I know. So I take it the problem is the high salaries ie they should be using them for the gospel. Is that you guys position?
Oh there are issues with doctrine as well. We just can’t talk about the major one regarding Hank yet.
There is a matter that has caused major controversy here and we’ve agreed to not discuss that until a post is released about it and isolate the discussion to that post. It’s supposed to be coming up.
Some things about Hank were mentioned in this thread of comments.
Hank Hanegraaff may not be as sound as you think. He apparently supports a cult known as the Local Church, a cult previous CRI head Walter Martin opposed. I present the following links as evidence for your consideration, including some of the other heresies he preaches. The bottom link shows his ecumenical association with the ROman Catholic Religion:
http://www.answers.com/topic/hank-hanegraaff
http://www.apologeticsindex.org/375-hank-hanegraaff-support-the-local-church
http://thejude3project.wordpress.com/2007/03/15/teacher-to-avoid-hank-hanegraaff/
http://ircontent.wordpress.com/2007/04/19/response-to-hank-hanegraaffs-apocalypse-code-interview-on-the-bible-answer-man/
http://www.rapidnet.com/~jbeard/bdm/Psychology/cri/withrome.htm
IC remember the word covenant that you talked about in another post? We know why people can’t and won’t see the truth about tithing- it’s because they can’t understand the old and new covenant. Also, controversy isn’t a bad thing but it seems to be only when the opposing view seems to contradict what the majority believes. I didn’t lose my discerment just because I have acontoversial view like Hank.
PS. Congratulations Big Mel.
Mr Woods,
Are you saying he should now be called Chuck Swindle.
Kyle
Not so much playing devil’s advocate as correcting the list given.
No mention is made of Joseph who buried Christ - he was rich the Word says so:
Matthem 27:57
When the even was come, there came a rich man of Arimathaea, named Joseph, who also himself was Jesus’ disciple:
And there was Matthew the Publican, who was even a disciple:
Matthew 10:2-3
2Now the names of the twelve apostles are these; The first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother;
3Philip, and Bartholomew; Thomas, and Matthew the publican; James the son of Alphaeus, and Lebbaeus, whose surname was Thaddaeus;
So, while I agree that in the New Testament, there is no emphasis on personal wealth, its not entirely accurate to state that the only rich people in the New Testament were those ill spoken of. That wouldn’t be true.
One thing that can be said of the rich mentioned in the New Testament, though, is that they used their wealth and positions to help the saints. People nowadays seeking to be rich, only want to gloat and lord it over others. They don’t want to help anyone other than themselves.
Danny, you miss my point. My list wasn’t meant to be exhaustive, as yours isn’t (Zaccheus, anyone??).
The point was NOT that all the rich are spoken of in the same manner. Read the post. My point was that the vast majority of verses pertaining to the accumulation of wealth and riches in the New Testament were WARNINGS, not incentives.
First, I am on your side, so I do get your point. Second, it doesn’t make a strong argument when you don’t present an accurate picture, which your list didn’t. Third, I left out Zaccheus on purpose. So yes, I know that he would have been in the list too. I left out a lot of New Testament wealthy that were well-spoken of. But, thanks.
You stated: “Let’s how see how many [rich] the Lord mentions in the New Testament, shall we?”. You didn’t say you were only listing those that were ill spoken of. That’s rather deceitful, on your part. (again, I am on your side here). (MN “Deceitful” goes to motive. I suggest GaryV was not trying to decive. )
Its hard tp win others to your side when you leave out facts that don’t support your argument. I am not a trained debater, but I do know a few things about persuasion. A misleading argument does not persuade.
And the warnings were not about having wealth, it was about making wealth your primary gain. The warnings were about greed, moreso than wealth. You can be as “poor as a church mouse” and still be greedy.
No, I got your point. You only used those shown in a negative light. I only wanted to show that there are some rich people spoken of in a good light in the New Testament. I am sorry it came off as if I was negating your point. I was just trying to add the difference in how they used their wealth and their faith in Christ (which was mentioned in the verses I referenced).
Be easy, GaryV. “I don’t want no trouble” with you. LOL.
While for the most part I agree w/ a lot of the posts here, but there lies cause for concern with some of the comments. I DO want to ask this though….are there any ministers you guys like, or is it just the ones that become wealthy that are on the hitlist? Ya’ll must be broke and are mad that these people have money. No one complains when Hollywood makes money off you, or even the Cable company (do u really need 100 channels?). LOL! Ya’ll….and by the way, Jesus did tell us that we would get houses, land, family..w/ persecution….Matt.10:28-30….and that is in correct context.
So my question to you all is….do you know for sure what that particular minister you criticize has been through, with regard to their “coming up?” If you don’t know, then please comment somewhere else. Most of the time we don’t know what the particular person went through b4 they became well known. Some had suffered greatly and lost a lot…at least that’s what they tell us.
Now, know that I am the quintessential cynic when it comes to preachers. I disect sermons like a science project and make sure it lines up w/ what I read. Currently, I am disheartened at the direction church has taken. However, this stuff was gonna happen anyway, so it’s necessary that those who can discern the truth that we warn others. But when critiquing ministers, I hope you give them the benefit of the doubt.
(MN: It’s not about what the preacher has been through. It’s about the heresies he teches and the fact that he uses those and other techniques to get money out of the sheeple while lying to them. )
Actually JD, he didn’t promise that. Can you show me where Jesus promised land for following him, as a matter of fact, you may run the danger of losing your family versus gaining them. Check this verse out Luke 12:53. So if God so blesses you with such things it is a plus not a promise. You are promised persecution, and some suffering, but never land unless you can show me that.
Gary V, I agree with you! (Wow! Big surprise! LOL!!!) I would only add that even shelter is an extra in light of I Timothy 6:8. Maybe we can say that shelter is a “given” but even Jesus said that he had no place to lay His head, implying that even He was homeless. (Matthew 8:20, Luke 9:58)
Well, I threw in shelter because otherwise I’d have no place to keep my food and clothing
How about a backpack? HA! HA! HA! Jansport makes some pretty sturdy ones!
You got me there brother
Haha
I was wondering when you’d get to Hagee, who’s next to go down!
Greetings and blessings all- thanks for the insights you have provided and I will of course share them with as many who will listen. Also– Melvin, just a thought –you might want to write something up regarding the “church building funds” — I believe it would provide us (sheep) with food for thought. -marcus
Marcus, is there something specific you had in mind when you asked the questions?? Just wondering what your situation is, or if you are asking for someone else.
I think everyone here has been in a bad church/doctrinal situation at some point.
Has anybody noticed Hagee’s latest accomplice in his political scare tactics? She’s a lady named Brigitte Gabrielle. She’s a Christian escapee from the Middle East and is helping Hagee sing the song “If you don’t vote Republican, then you are pro-terrorist”. Hagee has preached against witchcraft before, but is practicing it, himself, by trying to use intimidation & guilt trips to override people’s free will. (politics and prosperity) i have also heard him calle non-tithers thieves on his broadcasts.
(MN: Brigitte may or may not be a real live Christian. In reading her book, I never heard her profess any kind of relationship with God through Jesus Christ. It was more of a “I was raised Christian” kind of thing. She’s an Arab Christian (Lebanon) and apparently got out as the Muslims were just starting to trash Lebanon for Allah. She wrote a book entitled “Because They Hate,” relaying her experience in Lebanon. It made for some pretty interesting reading. My own opinion - I wouldn’t sign her up to do ministry, but if I’m talking politics and policy, she would be a good one to talk to in order to at least get the other side of the story. )
She’s probably a Coptic Christian which as you quoted. Falls back on being “born” or raised a Christian. In that part of the world that makes you no different than the Muslims. Other than who you pray to but as far as a personal relationship with Christ it’s mostly not there. Christianity is political in those circumstances or familial and nothing more.
GaryV well put, you dismantled the whole prosperity Gospel and succintly put into words what is wrong with todays church bravo!!
Check’s in the mail SoC
I want to know if anyone has a clip of Hagee preaching the dual covenant message. I’ve been hoping to stumble across it for over a year now and all I can find are little articles(hear say) Help a brother out.
(MN: Here is a link to an article in the Houston Chronicle. You can see the quote in it’s context.
You’ll have to establish an account. But the registration is free. )
Hi Melvin
I email you about a new book, which I think that your reader would love to read, name of the book is Oh Heart Where Are You. It a very dynamic book that asks you to search your soul and heart to find and love the teachings of our Lord Jesus Christ. I like what you are doing for God People and how you are help them find the love that they once had again, thank God for send man and women to work in the vineyard. God Bless All you as you enlight each other.
(MN: Didn’t get the e-mail. )
Just for the record, I am a girl. (Someone was taking up for me in another post and said “he” and I just wanted to be clear.)
I thought you were a guy. I apologize Sister.
to Ce. Just go to google and type “Jack Van Impe false” Then you will get a plethora of information, God Bless you
Hey Melvin, I was wondering when the “light” would come out on this man. He was here in KC last month doing his end times pesentation at First Family Church (whose pastor has been going through some contreversy himself, Jerry Johnston) and I myself wonder why strong fundemental churches has these individuals in there pulpits. I have another pimp to add to your list of one here: Bishop Mark Tolbert, in KC flat out gave the oneness creed in a sermon last month on his televised service. I had a feeling, but now I’m for sure. he too has many false teachers and prophets at his church as well (Noel Jones, Chuckie Ellis, Todd Hall to name a few). I know that he does come on the Word network, so if you get a chance see for yourself.
As soon as I saw Pastor Hagee hanging out with Benny Hinn, I knew it was downhill from there. Pastor Hagee’s greed was easy to spot, until he recently started hiding all his finances. Until recently, he was “hiding in the light.” I guess he went underground since he was exposed. I wrote about it here:
http://www.freegoodnews.com/2006/07/reformation_chr.html
…Bernie
Anyone who associates with Hinn is a bonafide pimp!
Case Closed!
pimpster hagee has been pimping for along time! if you “wikipedia” him you can see how he does not even meet the standard for the position (not title) of pastor, as stated in the Pastoral Epistles, as he divorced his first wife and then married a woman from his congregation. i was once caught under the spell of this hell fire preaching chubster, but as all things in the dark, it will soon come to the light. it appears that in the areana of the megga church it is hard to find true disciples of Jesus Christ. they all appear to ok at first but once you slow down and listen to them carefully and them hold their doctrine up to the light of the Bible they usually show their true colors. its ashame but this is where we are today as we all awiat the return of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
Perilous Times and Perilous Men 2 Tim 3:1-9
3 But know this, that in the last days perilous times will come: 2 For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, 3 unloving, unforgiving, slanderers, without self-control, brutal, despisers of good, 4 traitors, headstrong, haughty, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, 5 having a form of godliness but denying its power. And from such people turn away! 6 For of this sort are those who creep into households and make captives of gullible women loaded down with sins, led away by various lusts, 7 always learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. 8 Now as Jannes and Jambres resisted Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, disapproved concerning the faith; 9 but they will progress no further, for their folly will be manifest to all, as theirs also was.(NKJV)
these people truly have a form of godliness and truly have no fear of God all the while they deny His Power and His Word. keep your eyes wide open and on the Creator not the creature.
God Bless you all! keep the light shinnin Mel.
Well i’m going to search for the oneness doctrine since i’m not familiar with it but could someone provide some good links as well?
(MN: Try here for starters. )
here’s another link, be Blessed!
http://www.apologeticsindex.org/o00.html#oneness
Great thanks.
I made the mistake of getting married to a oneness woman, At the time I had no clue abut this thing but ultimately it came to light. Of course hat marriage didn’t work because try living with a self righteous person with a ’strange doctrine’.
Her pastors convinced her wasn’t saved so we could not even have family devotion because she oculd not “let a sinner lead her”.
They would direct every area of her life and even when we separated it was a ploy engineered by them so I would “chase her down” so I could come to their church and get saved.
Long story, I have no beef, but I have no use for those people who preach that doctrine.
here the best link I’ve found thus far.
This AFC article on TD Fakes (a thirteen yr old calls him this) is very detailed, giving statments of faith etc. Click the higher ground link and see who is the vice-prelate
http://www.highergroundaaa.com/listing.htm
http://www.afcministry.com/T_D_Jakes_Examined.htm
(MN: Note who is the vice prelate at the highergroundaaa site. I have a call into the Ohio headquarters to see if the web page is up to date. If it is, that means T. Dexter is a high ranking Muckety Muck in the Oneness oriented Higher Ground Always Abounding Assemblies organization. Does anyone out there really think the Oneness folks at HGAAA organization is going to make a Trinitarian an associate Muckety Muck? That is certainly possible. But remember, oneness folks are convinced that we heathen worship a three headed god. That would certainly disqualify T. Dexter if he is Trinitarian.
Take a look too at some of the other stuff AFC offers, including some audio and text info on Arminianism, that doctrine that forces God to share His glory with us. But I won’t get started again on that. Scroll down on the home page. )
Are you saying that folks who are arminian (e.g. methodists) are on the same level as those who are oneness, therefore not saved?
No. Not across the board. Most people don’t realize, until they talk it all the way through, that they are Arminian. For instance, folks who believe they can lose their salvation are Arminian. Folks who believe I have to tell God I’m sorry BEFORE he saves me a