Folks, I just ran across an interesting web site. It’s run by a pastor. The article that got my attention was the one that claims that the media (and he includes my blog in that term) is targeting Black Churches.
Listening to a couple of his sermons, I suspect he is accepts some of the prosperity stuff that’s out there. But I don’t know that for certain.
Take a look at the article and see what you think. You might even want to leave a comment. I’m not sure he is accustomed to having people actually making comments.
(MN: Don’t bother to look for the article though. Apparently he received enough heat in the form of meaningful question, that he took it and all of the comment it generated down. Tucked his tail between his legs and ran. Yeah, this is a giant of the faith.
You can still use the link to at least get to his site though. There you will be able to read various innane postings asking trite questions and exhibiting a great deal of bravado. However, it generally appears to be nothing more than a shrine to G. E. Patterson. Apparently, he is till making bloviative comments in repsonse to folks here.
Pray for him and the people he is misguiding. )
Well i responded on his blog and I’m awaiting his response. The thing i find interesting and a bit troubling, is that his complaints appear to be geared on criticism towards the black church. He never appeared to address doctrinal error or accuracy. Furthermore, i notice that this is starting to become a trend with those that support the Word of Faith or Rhema belief. They never address the entire counsel of scripture except the ones that appear to imply that we shouldn’t judge or be critical towards one another. Anything else seems to be deemed either off limits or not relevant.
To be continued…..
The reason this “pastor” took exception to you mentioning some of those pimps is that they are linked to his website!!! These men would rather stand with men and not with God. Melvin, continue to stand boldly on the Word of God and you certainly will be blessed!!!
I am not a prosperity preacher, But I am a Holiness preacher that believes in Godly prosperity! Mr. Jones my blog is less than 2 months old and has garnered thousands of visits. (MN: I’m not sure what your point is here. The number of visitors isn’t really relevant to doctrinal isues. ) We are now starting to receive comments and we are getting out to the entire http://WWW. I am not trying to insert myself into your “niche”, because I don’t have to. (MN: I’m not clear on who exactly, even mentioned something like that. You’re defending yourself against an accusation that was never made. In fact, other than getting your facts wrong and not responding to specific doctrinal issues I haven’t “accused” you of anything at all. ) I am really a preacher that loves God, I don’t drive a Bentley, as a matter of fact I am a bivocational pastor. I am word-oriented and you know it. (MN: I can’t say I know it. I haven’t spent any time talking to you or listening to many of your sermons.) Jealousy is as cruel as the grave and I promise you that I am not jealous of anything that you are doing! (MN: Again, who said you were jealous of anything I am doing? Why are you defending yourself against things that were never said, or even implied? Curious! )
Melvin, I just left my comment, which followed TOG’s.
The fact is, the article is flawed beyond comprehension. We are left to simply take his theory as fact (blacks are unfairly and more often targeted) since he offeres NO evidence whatsoever to substantiate his claim.
It’s nothing more than racial preference/protectiveness………a disturbing sign of spiritual immaturity. I’ve never seen a white guy here rattling the cages over the targeting of white ministers on your predominantly black-attended site.
The issue is shifted from the serious errors to the COLOR of those who propogate the serious errors. The driving force behind the article is NOT the defense of the integrity of the Word of God………it is the defense of a particular people group whose distinction from other people groups was eliminated at the foot of the Bloody Cross.
…and he endorses Noel Jones - just realized no Noel Jones category here - r u related Melvin? ; )
(MN: No specific category, but there are several posts dealing with him and those he associates with. )
Amen Gary. Amen. To see the “race card” purpotrated countlessly by professing “Christians” is a reason to be saddened and disturbed.
The true root of issues such as these are not in Christ in the first place…and we know that.
Faith in Christ alone is apparently not remedy enough if we are speaking in terms of the flesh and justification within the confines of the flesh.
When color is injected….Jesus becomes the “cloak” and tradition rather than abiding by the word of God.
Wasn’t the blood enough? Or do we really have to preach socially acceptable messages to be considered truly relevant….and MAKE Jesus relevant to the culture? (As Kirk Franklin put it)
And (though I hate to give him this idea) I think he is going to figure out that he is going to have to start moderating the comments. I suspect the questions will be getting too hard for him to shuffle way.
I was wandering around his site and you are right. He endorces Noel “The Weasel” Jones.
I suspect doctrinal accuracy is not at the top of his list.
Wow. Noel Jones.
Anyone endorsing him needs serious precaution.
Since Pastor Smith’s actions lead me to question whether he will post our interaction in its context, I offer it here.
(MN: He posted it. But I’m not sure how long it will stay. He deleted two of my comments after they were posted. I think he is considering the idea of moderating every comment since people aren’t falling in line just because he’s the pastor.)
My response to the original article………
GaryV said,
March 11, 2007 @ 1:08 am
As a man whiter than an albino in a snowdrift, I must say I am constantly disturbed by the suggestion by the black community (explicitly or implicitly) that black folks should lay off black churches because of black solidarity.
Now, before you claim that this is not the impetus behind your article, please tell us why you targeted the criticism of black ministers?? White ministers get taken to the woodshed every bit as often………more really.
Hagin
K.Copeland
G.Copeland
Osteen
Bakker
P.Crouch
J.Crouch
O.Roberts
R. Roberts
Haggard
Tilton
Hinn
Duplantis
Savelle
Dougherty
Shambauch
Chirrona………etc, etc, etc.
It’s not the success and growth of the black church that we are discussing or examining………it is the growth of the black church apostasy. Along with the white church apostasy, Asian church apostasy, Polynesian church apostasy,Left-handed six-toed Elvis Messianic church apostasy, or whatever other artificial Gospel-ignoring label one can employ.
Yet, you would have us accept as fact the supposition you present that black leaders are targeted more often than their paler peers. But, without substantiation, we are left to wonder if what’s at stake for you is the racial protectiveness I cited earlier, rather than a genuine reaction to an injustice.
If the number of black leaders/churches targeted is NOT inflated beyond what is either proportional or accurately reflective of the state of the black church, we are left to wonder whether your observations are more reflective of your particular mindset than what is actually reflected in the media.
Your point only BECOMES a point if you can prove statistically that black leaders are being targeted beyond their representative numbers in the Body of Christ. I see no evidence that you even attempted to validate your accusation, which reduces your thesis from the realm of analysis to the realm of demagoguery.
Food for thought……….”soul food”, if you will.
pastorssmith replied………..
“Are we like the scribes and pharisees who Jesus said would strain at a gnat and swallow a camel? Do we see the speck in our own eyes and neglect the moat in our own eyes?”
pastorssmith said,
March 11, 2007 @ 1:16 am
“I made my post about the media and since the media has discovered the Black Church, the black church has become a target of sorts. I am not castigating your opinions, yet I am not backing down on what I am saying. Sure there is a lot wrong even outside of the Black Church; however I will humbly submit that it is highlighted by the media to a lesser degree. Gary, I stand by what I have posted and despite your response, I ascribe to the tenets of Holiness. Do you? I don’t just preach it, I live it!”
GaryV responded……..
Ah yes…….we see it so often. Distract and deny when there is nothing substantive to offer.
Tell me pastor………..is this the sort of apologetic you employ from your pulpit??
You say you are not castigating my opinions. What you overlook is that I posited no opinion, only asked questions which remain unanswered.
For example, why is it that we are expected to assume that your premise that the Black church/leadership is being attacked disproportionately is valid?? Have you set forth anything evidentiary to buttress your claims?? No, you haven’t.
Why is it that we are to assume that your suggestion that white ministers are attacked less than black ministers is valid?? Have you offered anything which would allow us to test the truth of those accusations?? No, you haven’t.
Why is it that you show more concern for the racial makeup of those targeted than for the integrity of the Word of God, and how it is being twisted and wrested to the destruction of both teacher and hearer??
What exactly HAVE you done?? Nothing. Oh wait……..you brought up “straining at a gnat” and the ever popular “eye speck”.
Now………..in order for THESE verses to be applicable to me, you would have to demonstrate where I have made such wild, irresponsible, and unsupported claims as you have (the “speck” accusation) or prove that such unfounded tripe as you have posted is insignificant for a pastor (The “gnat” distraction).
I don’t expect you to substantiate these attacks on me any more solidly than you did the orignal article of course. It’s just a shame that someone who takes the position of pastor would act and react in such a manner.
As for your final intimation that I am not Holy ( while of course being kind enough to inform us of your own sublime Holiness)…….. how you would know this is anyone’s guess. What accusation do you bring against me??
I can only assume you pulled that bit of defensive and distractive nonsense out of the same thin air you used to concoct the rest of your demagoguery.
BTW…………I’d love to get your unique definition of “Holiness”. After the way you just reacted by attacking a brother without cause (except for pointing out the vacuousness of your position), I dare say it may differ somewhat from the definition the Bible offers.
Due to your previous behaviour I have little confidence that you will post my response……….but fear not, your words as well as mine will be posted on Pulpit_Pimps.org for all to see.
As I suspected,all my comments……….ALL OF THEM…….have been deleted.
Judging by this rather cowardly and VERY selective choice of what he decides to acknowledge, it is clear how he arrives at his flawed and funky theology.
If a verse or multiple verses do not fit within the parameters of his preconceived notions, he simply does to them what he did to my comments………..he deletes them. How else can one explain his promotion of the merry band of heretics he links to??
Well, he may not have answered any of my questions, but at least we have an idea what the brother’s concept of “Holiness” looks like now.
When challenged legitimately, distract, deny, insult, protect your damaged pride by deleting the questions you cannot answer (which is in fact deception), then puff up with pride some more.
There IS a spiritual being who uses just such methods…….. and I doubt we would call him “Holy”.
You see, this is the difference between a dictator and a benevolent dictator like me. I try to communicate, to talk some sense into your heads. He just refuses to post what he doesn’t like. I’m assuming, of course, that the comment deletions weren’t accidental. You people need to be grateful for the way I run this site. He makes me look like Thomas Jefferson and George Washington combined!!!
Notice some of his latests posts. Seem to me like they are directed squarely at pulpit-pimps. I was going to reply to a couple of them, but it just felt like a waste of time as he’d either delete them or reply in the same way he did to you Gary. I really could not be bothered:
Pro 12:15 Fools think their own way is right, but the wise listen to others.
So its best to do like Pro 23:9 - Don’t waste your breath on fools, for they will despise the wisest advice.
He kinda reminds me of Proverbs 18:2: Fools have no interest in understanding; they only want to air their own opinions.
It’s like a good game of raquetball in which I manage to run the other guy all over the court! Most interesting.
He will probably just stop responding or posting any of your comments.
And I suspect he has discovered the “Moderate” option in his administrative section.
Melvin, Ive played guys like you. Have me running all over the place and they practically are standing still. I’m telling you it’s not fair. But that’s what you did, you stood on the bible and the pastor ran all over the place.
His web links have the theme of “black nationalism”. I’m not sure what to make of this. Is he about lifting up Jesus, or is he about lifting the black church? Those goals don’t have to be mutually exclusive, do they?
it is such a shame, yet a big indicator that he is on the wrong path with his issue. It’s like saying that a young brother (black) is being targeted by supervisors unfairly over the whites at a large corporation (just go with me for a minute). Truth is the brother is always late for work and late from break and can always be found roaming on the internet. He never wants to do things the way “management” asks and insists he get paid more. The whites do it but we may not be as aware of it cuz we can only see what’s going on with the brother, i mean he is our brother.. But we have not acknowledged the fact that the brother is always late, always on the internet, gone longer than should be on their breaks and can’t seem to get the job done right. It is a violation of the company polocies and a job performance issue and should be addressed. Right? Smith fails to look at the real issues here, doctrinal ones. These men and women are in direct violation of what scriptures say! It is thwarting all efforts to live for HIM according to truth, they should be addressed right? Regardless of color and cruks of community, if they are wrong in what they teach , the community is led wrong!
You all or way out there. I will leave my comments and posts to those who don’t have the propensity to judge others at a moments noticde. If you have something negative to say about a preacher, be a man and address that to that particular preacher. I didn’t respond with the vigor and vitality that I can because I was physically tired. I was amazed that Mr. Jones stayed on my site posting most of the night. (MN: Please, I spent 15 minutes posting. I spent another ten this morning, before going off to worship with fellow saints. Your attempts to distract are not effective. You still have not addressed the issues I brought up. ) Please, Mr. Jones and those that follow you, don’t think that I can’t defend my faith. (MN: No one is asking you to defend your faith. I am asking you to tell us why you link to men who deny the essentials of the faith.) I don’t listen to many of the people that you oppose at all anymore, (MN: Then why do you link to them and why do you rpomote Noel JOnes on your site, saying he is one of the best preachers around? ) yet you have hinted that I am one of their biggest supporters. I love the Lord and any web links that I have had also beared the inscription does not represent as an endorsement. (MN: Then why keep them there? [Click here to see the list of links and notice who is linked to. Apparently the page is a part of Destiny Ministries, a ministry named by you as one you started. Click here to see where Mr. Smith speaks about Destiny Ministries] I assume you built the list and can control the contents. I, of course, could be wrong, but you would have to let me know that. ) I didn’t feel like addressing you or yours then, but I will post my take on this exchange soon. Thank you and may God abundantly bless you! (MN: Rather than posting your take on the exchange [there really hasn’t been an exchange] how about answering the questions that were put to you last night, the ones you have consistently failed to address?
And why did you delete comments after you posted them? )
By the way, of what we have said, what is way out there? How are we distorting the Scriptures?
as stated before, i don’t think that he is going to answer with scripture or even address scripture. Some how i think this is dialog is going to die down fast.
No one judged you Stephen……..we asked you to substantiate your claims. You did not. You cannot.
You responded by insult and deletion. Holiness, huh?? Right.
Oh my goodness. Are my eyes deceiving me. You have never insulted someone who commented before? Holiness, huh?? Back at you!
(MN: Certianly I insult people. I called your idol a jerk. But that isn’t the issue. The issue is that this is ALL he has done. He has not present a response to anything. He isn’t even man enough to leave his posting up or the comments that it drew.
Jesus insulted people. So did Paul, Jude, Peter, and John. Holy! Sure. )
Well XYZ……….you will never see is insult as a substitute for Biblical answers here. If the obstinate continue to ignore the Word, then we can see Jesus’ example……..
Child of hell………hypocrite…….whited tomb……etc, etc.
Jesus never used insults to avoid answering questions though……..did HE??
xyz….did Melvin really insult your leader or did he make an accurate assessment, based on Scripture? Was it an insult or was it open rebuke? If you are openly practicing deception, the Bible says you are subject to open rebuke (1Tim. 5:20). C’mon. Dust Big Mama’s Bible off, take all the obituaries out…and read it!
First and foremost, I don’t know who Pastor Stevens is, he is not my pastor. Secondly, I do read my bible. My bible is dusty, maybe yours is. Get a life and do what you names states;”praywarrior”? go figure……!
XYZ… do not attack me. I pray before I ever blog on this site, that my words are edifying to the learned body at large. I really am not an avid blogger. I just asked you a question. OK, you read your Bible, so tell me: is it insulting someone if you clearly see their teaching is in error, and you can show this to the person in Scripture? Being a Christian and reading our Bibles, this is what I believe we should do. I don’t think the truth is the problem here, xyz…I think the problem is that this pastor does not want to stand corrected. Which is dangerous and leans toward reprobacy. I have a life and it is learning the Word of GOD. In learning HIS Word, I learn HIM. Peace.
Melvin, pastor Stevens is not my pastor. I live in Maryland. I have never heard of him until this site! Okay!
(MN: Then I suggest you pay a visit to his site and see what he is saying. I don’t know him either. But it’s easy enough to compare what he says to what the Bible says. )
I love your effort Pastor Stevens, but don’t argue back and forth with Melvin and GaryV, its not worth your time. Stand on what you believe and let them two duke it out. They never disagree with one another, “never”. I stopped by to see if anything has changed, and I see that it hasn’t. Pastor, you know the word, stand on it, and preach to your congregation, remember I said your congregation. You do have a more important job to do than to deal with one track mind people. It’s not your way, Melvin’s way or either GaryV’s way, it’s God way and God’s word.
(MN: Only a few problems with your comments:
1. We don’t know what he believes. Other than making accusations about people (unsubstantiated) he never answered any of the questions
2. He never used the Word. He simply threw out hackneyed phrases that I guess are typical for COGIC pastors when they can’t defend their statements. He never “Stood” on the word. We presented Scripture. He responded…well, acutally he didn’t respond to the issue. He just made pointless statements.
3. Unfortunately, the track we are working on is his willingness to support such people as Creflo Dollar, Noel Jones, Ken Copeland, and Fred Price.
4. I don’t know if he even knows God’s word. He never used it in any of his comments here or his comments on his own blog
XYZ, does any of this bother you at all? Looking past the flash and dash of this man, can you honestly say he said anything of any worth during the entire series of comments. If you think he did, would you please share it with the rest of us? )
And I must correct you in ANOTHER area xyz………..Melvin and I DO disagree.
I’m an original recipe KFC man……….Mel’s an extra-crispy.
Extra-crispy? You disappoint me Mel. Nothing but the original recipe for me!
Preach DAT Mr Bibles!!!
All of you are delusional. Popeyes is where it’s at, though it is only a “shadow” in LA of how good those in N.O & Baton Rouge are.
I’m with Grid on that one, although I just had Church’s tender crunchers for lunch!!!!
binks
My sentiments exactly! Chicken!??
I have to agree with Melvin here–which is something that I rarely do–:-)
There is nothing on this side of paradise better than a piece of hot, “Southern, (with a capital ‘S”), fried chicken…
Duck and dodge. That is a good way to avoid doctrinal “bullets”.
The holes in the “pastors” theological grounding (or lack thereof) are pretty apparent.
Besides the common defense mechanism of the judge not, the mote and beam…..
Where are the scriptural foundations of his basis?
Whenever one reads about N. Jones, the first thing that is often mentioned is how many miles he has logged across the world to preach.
Not to mention, he boasts of this from the pulpit.
Maybe the pastor (S. Smith) aspires to be of this stature.
All the while profiting off of “the black church”.
But I do have one question.
Mr. Smith, you make your case against the media for attacking the black church, as opposed to white preachers.
Yet at a point it was stated on your site that “eleven o’clock on Sundays is still the most segregated hour”.
With these two differing statements, which is really of your overall concern?
The attack on the black church?
Or the desegregation of the church? Or are you even concerned with the segregation in any form?
Pastor Stephen F. Smith, who it is interesting has paid this blog a visit and even even commenting on this thread, is simply a businessman defending his trade. Like most preachers, he’s upset that some of his craft are being exposed and he does not wish to see himself on a headline. Well now he is a headline. (That’s bad for business ya know.)
He’s a prosperity pimp now running for cover, given this unwelcome exposure here on this blog. Check out this clip on his own blog that he obviously takes pride in. I only watched the first clip and could take no more of this same old prosperity style of preaching. Smith says himself from the pulpit:
He preceded that statement with talk about Joseph of the Old Testament and how he went through pain for earthly gain. He reflected this to today, which is the same old YOU’RE GONNA GET SOME BUCKS kind of talk. He ended (just before the jumping and clapping) by telling folks to see themselves receiving “their” dreams and goals.
The only difference between when he said it and when I’ve seen pimps like John Bevere give the EXACT SAME SERMON, is that Bevere didn’t have to reference notes. The focus of the sermon was on God brining earthly gain. It is a textbook example of prosperity preaching.
Then in this other post he says:
Not exactly a modest preacher, is he?
If he was honestly concerned about true Gospel teaching getting out, he would not be worried about frauds being exposed, no matter their race. He claims Rick Warren and Joel Osteen are not getting as much criticism. I didn’t see ABCNews do an expose on Jakes this past week, but they did do one on Rick Warren that included Joel Osteen.
Smith is trying to protect his efforts to grow in the BUSINESS. He’s trying to also play on race, because like some other better known pimps, he knows crying about race gets more attention and provides an instant defense.
You are way out there! Thanks for misquoting me, and that video is over 7 years old, I promise you that I don’t have to reference notes now. You also have the musings of a closet racist. If you are, I can pray that the Lord can deliver you right now from that awful disposition!
(MN: You are such a jerk!!! [And please note that this is the first time I have called you a name. But your arrogance and ignorance, your complete lack of an ability to carry on a discussion with men and women who are willing to disagree with you is just so astounding! Why, in talking to someone who has only tried to get you to address doctrinal issues, have you tried to play the race card - again? Is your stuff THAT weak? My gosh - and you are a pastor, a leader of men and women following Christ. How Christ-like was that idiotic comment? And what, exactly did he say that has the musings of a racist? He said the same things I said. I think you have pretty much killed your credibility with the people who visit this site. By the way - they aren’t my followers. All of my real followers attend the Melvinite Temple of Greater Blessing and Outstanding Miracles here in Bowie Maryland.
Oh, and are you going to address the issues that started this entire goat-rope? I see you took the posting down, but the questions remain. On your MySpace page you have pictures of Creflo, photos with you and Noel Jones, and other stuff. Why can’t you admit that you endorse these men and women? It’s really unmanly and down right dishonest to say other wise. )
Where were you misquoted specifically?? Can you give actual evidence of ANYTHING……….EVER??
Nice playing of the race card again too………seems YOU may well be the one needing deliverance. Racial distinctions were washed away at the foot of the Cross. You should visit there sometime.
Do you believe that?
Do I believe what??
Some folks have a hard time applying Galatians 3:26-29 to their own lives.
Why are the haughty ones always so easy to pick apart?
Not really, I saw your game, called it as I saw it and now you’re upset.
I didn’t misquote you. I quoted your words exactly as you spoke them and anyone is free to watch the video themselves, which is why I linked to your post of it on your blog.
It’s interesting that you were so proud of that sermon that you posted it on your blog just weeks ago, but now you want to claim it’s “old”. You posted it to YouTube in January. Even if it’s 100 years old, you’re pretty proud of it and although you won’t admit it, you feel it’s some of your finest work. Otherwise you would not parade it all over the Internet. It’s false prosperity doctrine. If people want their material debt canceled, tell them to pay their bills!
I have good reason to believe (since you are COGIC) that you tell people that God wants them to pay “tithes” and God requires it. When they have debt, I’m of the opinion you tell them to pay the tithe and just “truth God”. You would have them pay out of their lack, using a law not applicable to Christians. You bind them in a law of the Old Covenant to enrich yourself and will do so with your “new” church.
If you are going to accuse me of exposing you because you’re Black, than please call me by the title used by all other Afrocentrists that attack me. Call me an Uncle Tom or a Sellout! Because I’m a Black man who actually cares about Black people and all people who fall under the spell of wolves. And I have a strong distaste for those who actually post in defense of wolves just because some of the wolves are “Black”.
For you this is a business, not a true ministry and I would enjoy nothing more than to see your trade of false doctrine shut down.
I’m still the same me. Maybe you need to fast a week and try again with me then? Maybe then you’ll beleive that people who expose frauds are doing a good thing.
Here is another video that you uploaded to YouTube just about a month ago. It is marked as one you delivered in 2000. The Title YOU gave it on YouTube is “Shouting the Saints!”. (A very profitable way to preach, keep them shouting.) You’ve got the people turning around and you tell them to:
You’ve got them jumping around for EARTHLY GAIN. You posted this video of yourself and obviously take pride in YOUR work. You defend Pulpit Pimps, because sir as I have demonstrated repeatedly, carry their style yourself. You are a tithe enforcing Pulpit Pimp. You are one of the ones who attacks the “money line” preachers, while you enforce the law of tithing that is not applicable to Christians.
On a side note, since you are under G. E. Patterson. Does it really make sense for Patterson to have named the street his church building is on after HIMSELF?
Dont forget Joel Olsteen is on that myspace page as well, the original denier of God and who’s going to heaven or hell. I watched the clip of him on Larry King, and I couldnt believe that he said he wouldnt say muslims are wrong, and that he couldnt judge their hearts. I agree we can’t judge the hearts of anyone, but we can judge the fruit, and if your fruit say’s “I SERVE ALLAH” then you arent going to heaven. Yet pastor smith has Joel’s pic on his myspace, along with others. I’m totally frustrated with these katz, and their lack of true biblical teaching. I grew up in the COGIC Church, so nothing he can say isnt something that I havent dealt with. My ex pastor was the Chairman of the Elders Council for years, I used to travel with him, and sit and watch these men talk about who had the biggest church, and who had the most members, and the most money, and they never talked about salvation. I was with my pastor when the bishop in this area died, and he was made the bishop here, I was in the room with Bishop Owens, before G.E. Patterson was bishop. I know a lot of the inner workings of the church, So it would be best if smith backed out. Because I know how all these guy’s operate, and it’s all money motivated. I was licensend to preach in the COGIC. I remember all of the assessesments we used to have to pay to keep our card. Oh I could tell a story…..
binks
Here Binks - Try this on.
(My best whiney voice) You’re just jealous because Mr. Smith is doing so well. That and you were obviously hurt by these people. You should get over your jealousy and learn to forgive them. Otherwise you will go through the rest of you life jealous and hurt. You need to learn to love like Jesus wants us to love. Afterall, he died for the sins of the world.
(There, how was that for an impersonation of a clueless follower? )
Mel, I figured someone would say I was jealous, but not you… lol… You couldnt imagine how much teaching is lacked in these churches, it’s unbelievable. I have a friend who is still in the church, and she teaches a bible study, and she had a quiz one day, and asked the class who were noah’s three sons, you couldnt imagine how many of them missed the answer. And you really would believe how many of them selected Cain and Able as their first answers, she called me, and told me that, and I just rolled.
I remember one time a friend of mine who’s still there, I asked him what was salvation, he told me “I dont know what it is, but I know it’s free” I was astonished!!!! What really hurts mel, Is my mother, and sister (mom’s upbringing is in the COGIC Church, that’s all she knows) are still there, They say they just ignore the things they dont agree with, and keep going. I feel for alot of these people, because a lot of them are hurting, I even tried to stay there, and continue sharing, but most of what I said, was met with hostility, because I was waaaaaay against the grain, they couldnt take speaking against Jakes, and Creflo, so It couldnt workout. But my prayer is that God sends me into an area where I can help people learn the truth.
binks
Mel, even the pastor’s wife said Cain, and Abel.
Sad very sad
binks
(MN: Definitely an indictment of the leadership. You can almost imagine a bunch of sheep allowed to wander into a field of thistles and brambles, getting nothing to eat. )
why are the sheep not eating? do they not have bibles?
C’mon Mav……..these aren’t sheep, they’re SHEEPLE.
Sheep can graze on their own. Sheeple must be spoon-fed.
“C’mon Pastuh………….tell me what to believe THIS week!!!! YipEEEEEEEEEEEE……..it’s my breakthrough!!!”
Depressing……
Please tell us more about the inner workings of COGIC leadership. The info you give make help someone see through the smoke.
Just know that the church is shroued in WOF theology, the Heirarchy is all about money, If you have enough money you can weild whatever position you want. I remember attending a meeting in Chicago with my ex pastor, and just sitting at the dinner table with several ministers and preachers, all they discussed was which bishop had the most money, and the largest congregation, I listened as their convos never turned towards salvation. I watched in my jurisdiction as my pastor was elected bishop, all the ministers who didnt like him (imagine that, ministers disliking each other) decided to start their own jurisdiction, and leadership, the Heads of the church allowed them to start their own, because they had the money to do it. Imagine not teaching your own pastors to follow leadership, but instaead allowing someone becuase of their feelings about someone else to become a self proclaimed bishop, and start their own jurisdiction because they had the finances. Talk about legalism, and man worship, after the funeral of the Bishop in our area, all the head bishops came to the church I attended, and they ate in a back room, and all the common folk ate dinner out in the fellowship hall, they were to elevated to even sit out with the people. Some things I will just leave out, but that should be more than enough to give eyes to see that something aint right.
binks
JLP, I left based on their unbiblical teachings on tongues, and on the security of the believer ( how salvation can be lost, and then you have to get it back again, only to lose it again, and so on) Also the unbiblical principals of giving ( the spirit said I need 100 people to give me $100, and we wont sit down until we get it, and then after they get all the big money they wanted, then the common folk were told to cmon, and give what you have, like their gifts were meaningless, because they didnt have lots of money). I left because of their unbiblical teachings on healing. I had a aunt who was dying of cancer, a lump in her throat larger than a cucumber, a false prophetess came to our church, told my aunt “GOD SAID YOU SHALL NOT DIE” She died 2 weeks later, she told her, that she would have to come to chruch 7 days in a row to get her healing, my aunt went back into the hosptial the very next day, and never got out again. Many, many different things. People being told they didnt have enough faith, and that’s why things didnt happen. Lots, and lots of bad teaching.
binks
Do you care to share what they taught about tongues? I have seen this issue come up quite a bit lately. Just curious as to what your church was teaching…
It’s your prayer language, the devil can’t understand when you talk to God in tongues. It’s for today, everything you hear in the WOF about tongues, other than the fact that it’s an actual language that is understood by the hearers, and not some jibberish, that no one can make out.
binks
Yeah Binks…on a slightly differing note, I definitely understood the aspect of you stating “ministers not liking each other, imagine that”.
I was at Faithful Central Bible Church (Held at the GW Forum in Inglewood, CA) for a Pastor/Wife anny (fund $$$$ raiser) in summer of 2005.
The day I was there (4th or 5th day), it was a combination of “ministries”. Faithful Central, City of Refuge (Noel Jones), and West Angeles COGIC (Bishop Charles Blake).
Thes are 3 VERY large ministries with “leaders” whom have differing backgrounds. Noel Jones-Oneness, Bishop Blake-1st VP of COGIC, and I am not as familiar with the upbringing of Kenneth Ulmer.
In the days prior, (I believe the first evening) Eddie Long brought a group from Atlanta, and some other large fellowships.
The day I was there, toward the end when Jones and Blake were praising their friend (Ulmer), Ulmer then gets up for his final words to the crowd.
He starts to talk about how he loves these men (Jones, and Blake) and that they take trips together, and when they are all invited to conventions together and such, other pastors and ministers are shocked to see that they all enjoy one another.
He went on to say, “We really LIKE each other”….just after he said that he would be approached by other ministers and pastors about them possibly being fake one with another.
He says that other men would ask how could that REALLY be when you guys are all in Los Angeles competing for members, and ya’ll REALLY like each other?
Ulmer finished off with yes we really do.
I was so surprised because this is not something that should even be an issue. Why are we even entertaining the convo of member competition (as he put it) and if certain ministers and leaders really like each other….and because they live in the same area, so how could they.
That really surprised me, to see this conversation pushed off onto the people. Why? That is something that set off my alarm though the presentation was apparently subtle.
Hopefully it set off more within others as well.
Mel & Binks—Try this one on for size: A question posed by an adult in Sunday School class this week: “Where in the Bible does it say, ‘God didn’t bring me this far to leave me.’? Can someone please help me locate this Scripture?”
Response from another adult: “Try checking for a key word in your accordance [concordance].
My question: Which word is deemed to be the “key” one in the original question? This is prime example of a sheeple’s mentality. Kind’a like, “When you take one step, God’ll take two,” “Cleanliness is next to Godliness,” “He’ll never put on you more than you can bear,” etc., etc., etc. No washing of water here; more like a mud bath.
I am praying for you all!
(MN: Thanks. While you’re praying, see if you can scare up the time to answer the questions you STILL have not addressed.)
Hey Mel; I just wrote him; let see if he answers me.
PJ
I think Pastor Smith took the article down, at least I can’t find it anymore. If anyone can find it let me know. I’ve looked all over his blog and can find no vestige of pulpit-pimps.
Folks, I’m afraid the challenge is over. The good Pastor Smith has wimped out on us and took the entire article down. Basically, he took his ball and went home.
But someone did visit his site and told him that Noel Jones is a great man of God. He (Pastor Smith) agreed.
I think the man is a hoot! I suspect this is the first time he has been exposed to someone not as totally enamored with G. E. Patterson, COGIC rank, and the automatic deference usually shown to the Mand of Gawd.
He’ll probably retool his blog and won’t have the decency to simply ban me or anyone else who responds as we have. A pity really. Talking to him would have been most interesting and educational. Alas, now we will have to do with reading his insipid posting, as he makes important sounding, and quite trivial statements. OF course, his fans will start eating the stuff up and tell him how wonderful he is.
I think I prefer being called the bitterness infested, haterade drinking accuser of the bretheren. At least it’s more interesting.
Talk to you later, Pastor S.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=rMrA3F1HVR0
Hey Mel it’s me Calvin check this vid out!
(MN: It’s an hour long, so get a cup of coffee and sit back. )
A very good video.
If Smith were truly a man that cared about “Black people”, wouldn’t it make sense that he’d prefer that false teachers exploiting Black people the most be exposed to the greatest degree?
If he were true to the race bait he spews, he would not be concerned with people like Rick Warren and Paula White much at all.
But by running to his stack of race cards, he not only showed that he is not honestly in favor of exposing pimps, but he also does not really care about the group of people he claims to have mentally segregated within himself for some special form of
exploitationcaring.If you DO actually come here “Pastor”, you’d better gird up your loins and bring some evidence for your kooky claims and kooky doctrine. Scripture rightly divided would be a change for the better, rather than the self-aggrandizing pablum you’ve serve up so far “I was tired, or I would have WHUPPED UP!!!” “I’m holy………you’re not.” “Sure, I deleted everything that exposed the spew I posted………but I was STILL tired.”
Please…….avoid further embarrassment and keep yourself surrounded by the Bootlicking Brigade.
After becoming curious about **PASTOR STEPHEN F SMITH** I decided to try to learn a little bit about **PASTOR STEPHEN F SMITH**. So, I looked up the page for **PASTOR STEPHEN F SMITH**, and found it talked quite a bit about **PASTOR STEPHEN F SMITH**. In fact, there were so many references to **PASTOR STEPHEN F SMITH** that I could not recall the Name of Jesus mentioned, or even Christ (unless it HAD to be included since “Christ” was part of some title of a church or organization that allowed **PASTOR STEPHEN F SMITH** to talk even MORE about **PASTOR STEPHEN F SMITH**). Let’s keep score and see how many times **PASTOR STEPHEN F SMITH** references **PASTOR STEPHEN F SMITH**(WHAT does this guy have against PERSONAL PRONOUNS??), and how many times he references Jesus or Christ when NOT part of a church/organization title (which I will mark with the word TITLE)………..
Preaching and Teaching the Word of God With Power-Sure House Church.Inc.
Bio:
**PASTOR STEPHEN F SMITH**(1) was a member of Temple of Deliverance Church of God in Christ(TITLE) in Memphis,Tennessee for eight years. He accepted his calling to the Gospel Ministry in 1994.
:lol:) Capacities, Altar Coordinator for the Major Services, and Planning Committee Member and Director of Transportation (limo driver) for the internationally reknown,”Soul Winners Conference”, where he was exposed to many of the world’s premier ministry gifts.
**PASTOR SMITH**(2) became a licensed minister in 1996,not long after that he was ordained as an Elder in the Church of God in Christ(TITLE) by one of the world’s greatest preachers, the Presiding Bishop G. E. Patterson. **ELDER STEPHEN SMITH**(3) served Temple of Deliverance COGIC in many different capacities such as secretary for both the Ministerial Alliance and the Elders’ Council, Personally serving Bishop Patterson in several different Security/ARMOR-BEARER (:lol:
**PASTOR STEPHEN F SMITH**(4) was also blessed to be the featured speaker at several major Sunday services at Temple of Deliverance C.O.G.I.C., a church of 15,000+ members where the Presiding Bishop G. E. Patterson is Pastor and Founder. **PASTOR STEPHEN F SMITH’S**(5) exposure to Bishop G. E. Patterson’s, Presiding Bishop of The Churches of God in Christ(TITLE), Inc., amazing ministry fostered his desire for excellence in ministry.
He was led to establish Greater Destiny Ministries Church of God in Christ(TITLE) in July 2001, and to establish Greater Destiny’s web ministry in April 2002. **PASTOR SMITH**(6) was led to rename Greater Destiny Ministries COGIC to Sure House Church, Inc. in 2006. Sure House Church, Inc. will launch on April 15, 2007 in Collierville,Tennessee. **PASTOR SMITH**(7) was officially installed as a Pastor in the Church of God in Christ(TITLE), Inc.by the Bishop Jerry L. Maynard, who is the Jurisdictional Prelate of Tennessee 4th Ecc. Jurisdiction of the Church of God in Christ(TITLE), Inc.and the Chief Operating Officer of the Churches of God in Christ(TITLE), Inc. Sure House Church, Inc. seeks to reach scores of people regardless of their denominations, cultures, and ethnicities! Sure House Church, Inc. is a Bible-Believing Spirit-Filled Ministry that will endeavor to reach the lost at any cost! **PASTOR SMITH**(8) greatly appreciates all of the great spiritual lessons that he has learned from his upbringing in the Church of God in Christ(TITLE), but he is mindful to stay abreast of those who are on the cutting edge ministry (Pimps) who are from other reformations and denominations. **PASTOR SMITH**(9) envisions the web ministry to essentially become a “church without walls”, that will reach all the corners of the earth. Sure House Church, Inc. which is still in its infancy, is committed to staying on the cutting edge (of heresy)! **PASTOR SMITH’S**(10) goal is to bring relevant life-changing and life-enhancing preaching & teaching to the Body of Christ(TITLE). **PASTOR SMITH**(11) is a Preacher’s Preacher (:roll:) and a cutting edge thinker (:roll: :roll:) that is intent on reaching the lost and teaching the found. **PASTOR SMITH**(12) believes that cutting edge thinking and innovation will lead to breakthrough results. **PASTOR SMITH**(13) will endeavor to make Sure House Church, Inc. a warm place where everyone including sinners are welcome. **PASTOR SMITH**(14) is intent on reaching the 65% of this nation that is unchurched and he is seeking Faith Partners (NATURALLY) from around the world to help support these efforts! **PASTOR SMITH**(15) believes that our entire nation and the rest of the world is primed for a tremendous move of God. **PASTOR SMITH**(16) will soon launch his “Changing Your Destiny Crusades” to cities across the nation.**PASTOR SMITH**(17) is frequently called upon to speak in the business and educational communities. **PASTOR SMITH**(18) was recently the Commencement Day Speaker for a recent local Urban League Graduation and he was the Communion and Ordination Speaker for the 18th Annual Holy Convocation of the Tennessee 4th Ecclesiastical Jurisdiction of the Church of God in Christ(TITLE), Inc. **PASTOR SMITH**(19)has also recently spoke for a group from The Community Foundation of Greater Memphis, and a group from the National Black MBA Association. **PASTOR SMITH**(20) is a cutting edge speaker (:roll:) and thinker (:roll: :roll:) who is abreast of a plethora of issues (even the ones he makes up)! **PASTOR SMITH**(21) has had his thoughts or messages showcased by Black and Christian.Com, The Washington Post, The Commercial Appeal, The Collierville Herald, and several other media outlets! **PASTOR SMITH’S**(22) messages can be viewed on My Space.Com, YouTube.Com, and Gospel Tube.Com. **PASTOR SMITH**(23) also has a blog titled Preach with Power.
**PASTOR SMITH**(24) is married to Deborah Boyce Smith, together they have a daughter Stephanie D. Smith. **PASTOR SMITH**(25) received his formal education from Central High School in Memphis,Tennessee.** PASTOR SMITH**(26) attended college at Memphis State University and C.H. Mason Bible College. **PASTOR SMITH**(27) is the Editor of the Black Church Page and the Best Car Man Page of US Black.Com. **PASTOR SMITH**(28) has several upcoming book and media broadcast projects on the table! **PASTOR SMITH**(29) can be contacted for engagements or consultation at 901-314-3248, or via E-Mail at ssmith(30)@thesurehouse.com .
Final score???
**PASTOR STEPHEN F SMITH**……….30
Jesus Christ the Redeemer……………….0
Good grief…….what an ego. Cutting edge thinker?? Please……….dude couldn’t even defend his phony hypothesis about black churches, and deleted that fact lest it be seen.
“Preacher’s Preacher”?? Alrighty then…….the clips speak for themselves (PSSSSSSST………you may want to actually LOOK AT THE CONGREGATION sometime, rather than read the sermon like it’s the Sunday Paper.)
Brother needs help………
And he even named his DAUGHTER after him!!!
Come on now Melvin…
Take a spiritual assessment of yourself please.
(MN: Should I use the Bible that you have yet to quote to any significant degree? )
That’s funny………you put forward unsubstantiated tripe on your websit without the slightest attempt at verification. You degenerate IMMEDIATELY to insult and defensiveness when challenged on your nonsense. You delete the posts which illustrate your absurdities to save your pride (deception).You then, after deleting the posts you could not answer, then post little thinly veiled “hit pieces” on your blog addressed to Pulpit_Pimps(cowardly)……..while denying access to those who would refute you. Finally, you puff yourself up rather than answer the valid questions raised………..yet you want someone ELSE to gauge THEIR spirtitual condiditon.
You’re a funny man………
View my later clips!
(MN: Why? They are a waste of time as well. )