The Arrival
I arrived on site right around 5:25 pm. As I came up the escalator, I was quite impressed to see that there was already a line of people waiting to get in. The place opened at 5:30.
Since the people were standing there with no place to go, I started at the back of one line and moved up, passing out pamphlets. That took care of about forty pamphlets.
God was most gracious and provided some very warm weather. I didn’t have to wear my watch cap and I even toyed with the idea of taking off my jacket. At one point, I was even a little damp from a light perspiration (that’s sweat to you T. Dexter fans).
I stationed myself at the top of the escalators and, as people came up passed out the tracts. I quickly discovered that if I asked if they were going to the revival, they were more than willing to take what I had to offer. I even directed people to the correct entrance.
Fortunately, the people arrived in clumps, determined by the arrival of the metro train in the station downstairs. So at least I got a rest between groups of people.
All told, I probably said “Are you going to the revival?” at least two hundred times. But again, it was necessary because the question, my infectious smile, and my incredibly pleasant demeanor encouraged folks to take the pamphlets. Besides that, some of them probably thought it was supplemental material for the revival. The whole thing went without a hitch.
Calling it Quits
About two hours and approximately 1200 pamphlets later I called it quits. The arrivals were slowing down and the Subway sandwich shop across the street was calling my name more and more loudly. Once I finished my sandwich, I made the ultimate sacrifice for you readers out there. I went inside the convention center and sat in on the revival.
I used to work across the street from the convention center when they were digging the hole for the facility. I could tell it was going to be huge. But you have to go inside the building to understand just how large the place is. However, even with that I had no trouble finding the revival. All I had to do was follow the thumping and bumping to get there. But before I could go in to the hall, the security detail (just one guy actually) searched my bags. I guess I can understand that.
Into the Pit
When I walked into the place it was as though I was in a sea of people. I’m not very good at estimating crowd sized, but there had to be at LEAST five thousand people, probably a lot more. The singer lady was ratcheting the crowd up, with singing and shouting. She even stopped in the middle of it to let us know that we are the head and not the tail. She made sure that we knew that greater things are coming and that we should praise God because it’s through our praises that our triumphs come.
The singer lady sang a couple of more songs, one with the guy who always has his shirt tail hanging out and keeps his hair standing up on his head. And he wears a tie.
Bishop Owens stepped to the mike and said a couple of things. I forget what they were. But then he introduced the man , T. Dexter Jakes!
The Main Event , Almost
T. Dexter came out and gave a shout out to various folks. It was then that I learned that Grainger Browning, the bloke who invited Calypso Louie to speak at Ebenezer AME the year before last, was there. He mentioned some others as well, but none stood out like Grainger.
Now it could be that T. Dexter doesn’t know that Grainger prostituted himself with Louie and the Millions More March. But I doubt it. After all, it was on national television and had such luminaries as the Reverend Jackson and Super Processed Sharpton associated with it. Again T. Dexter demonstrated a lack of concern for the truth.
T. Dexter then spent the next ten minutes hawking various products. This included the male getaway he’s planning for this March 29 through 31. He even announced the speakers. This list of luminaries includes I. V. Hilliard, Jesse Duplantis and Mile Monroe.
He also advertised the Security conference his organization holds. I don’t believe he gave the cost of that event.
He then advertised a tape set that you could buy. The tapes, of course, have life changing information on them.
And of course during this time, he assured us that the new year was going to make up for all the years of loss I had suffered before, etc., etc., etc..
He Preaches
Finally, T. Dexter started his sermon. He preached, more or less, from 2 Samuel 12:15-20, the recount of the death of David and Bathsheba’s baby.
T. Dexter rambled on for the first fifteen minutes or so talking about David and Goliath, pointing out that you know you are anointed to do a particular task when you don’t have the tools to do the task. You know, it’s easy to kill a giant if you have a bazooka.
Finally, around 9:10, after a lot of “tell your neighbor this,” or “Tell your neighbor that,” he got to the section. I listened as closely as I could for as long as I could. I decided I definitely had better things to do once he explained the application to us for David washing his face once he found out the baby had died. According to T. Dexter, the washing is a lesson to us that we should become a new person once God has removed from us that which he didn’t want us to have in the first place.
One thing that I found interesting was his apparent effort to embarrass the men in the audience to jump up and down and shout. He claimed that our boys need to see their fathers shouting and see us being emotional. He said we shouldn’t just sit there quietly. I, on the other hand, think our sons and daughters need to see us living holy and consistent lives, being faithful and supporting men. But that’s just me.
Meeting Old Acquaintances
While standing at the top of the escalator I ran across a couple of old acquaintances from First Baptist Church of Glenarden.
I was happy to see Susie Taylor (I think that’s her last name), I wasn’t too thrilled to see that she was still wrapped up in the idiocies there at First Baptist. We hugged and greeted each other quickly , as I gave her a pamphlet.
Josephine Miller was a bit different. She definitely seemed peeved to see me. I suspect she has been visiting the site. It sounded like it hurt when she said she was glad to see me. I guess the fact that I questioned the validity of her being a reverend didn’t exactly make me her best friend.
Overall, it was a somewhat depressing experience. Seeing the people going in, knowing they are going to get nothing but platitudes and lies, really makes you face the pain of the human condition. I wanted to shout to everyone who came up the stairs, telling them to run away, turn around and escape. But I suspect all they would have done is look at me as though I was insane, and then gone on in to the slaughter. And while I was there, while T. Dexter was spewing his pabulum and foolishness, the guy behind me kept saying that this was real preaching. About twenty minutes into the sermon, I left.
I’m going to try to put a clip up within the next couple of days.
Wow Mel…………..sheeple to the slaughter.I love how they offer the “life changing” goodies before the sermon. That way you are sure to get their junk before the offering (see, the offering has to be divided up among the other wolves and used to pay the bills…………..the tapes/cds/books are pure profit for TD).
Well……….you may say it was depressing. But The Holy One saw you out there alone, being obedient to His commands. That’s something to rejoice over my friend.
Thanks for the footage. That’s about as close as I wanna be to an event like that.
“One thing that I found interesting was his apparent effort to embarrass the men in the audience to jump up and down and shout. He claimed that our boys need to see their fathers shouting and see us being emotional. He said we shouldn’t just sit there quietly. I, on the other hand, think our sons and daughters need to see us living holy and consistent lives, being faithful and supporting men. But that’s just me.”
see i told you, he’s pushing that he-motion agenda. In attempt to make men feminine. What purpose does it serve for little boys to see their dads jumping up and down and clapping all danty with his lips puckered up talking about “haleluuuuuulah”. It doesnt make sense, and its very disappointing that people can fall for such foolishness so easily. Actually makes me a bit angry to tell you the truth.
My question is, what was the response of the men when he made that petition?
Oh BTW, i’m glad to see you had a good time.
truthofgod,
are you saying that becasue men praise and worship God that this is making them feminine? I agree that our young men need to see us living a holy and consistent life according to the word of God and not man.
However because my expression to God may include worship, shouting and become emotional does not make me feminie it gives reverence to the one (God) who saved my life from death.
I think what’s foolish is how you make a statement that could be preceived to lump all men together. becuz you sit in your high chair with a remote control in your right hand and a beer in the left some men praise God (I’m sorry I just lump you with how the world see us). I’m sure your are a true man of God.
Be Blessed
No. I’m saying that Jakes and the rest seem to think that men and women are supposed to jump up and down and shout and blubber. He seems, in much of his writing, to say that we men are supposed to behave like women. He appears to be trying to make every body the same.
My issue is not only the feminization of men, but a promotion of a defective concept, if you will, of feminization. The women who follow him and other pimps, have shown a clear tendency to interpret emotionalism as a religious experience. The more these pimps can stir you up emotionally, the more anointed they must be. This is a bogus view of spiritually and of worship.
In an apparent attempt to drag men (who I suspect are less vulnerable to the emotionalism) he and the pimps like him, more and more are trying to embarass men into fitting into the charicature they have created of worshiping saints.
Anybody can jump around, shout, claim that they’re the head and not the tail as long as they want. Any one can prphesy to their neighbor that they are going to have an overflow year. But I suspect that none of this is worshiping God in spirit and in truth.
All of this makes you feel good, and it makes you look good to those around you. It even burns a few calories so you might even lose a little weight. But worship? No.
Worship is intertwined with dying to ourselves daily, to offering our lives as a living sacrifice, to proving that the will of God is good and acceptable and perfect. It is not screaming “GLORY!!!” at the top of your lungs and dancing around like some little girl. The screaming does not conform you to the image of Christ, only to the image of the person next to you.
The thing to remember is that no man who understands any of this is going to follow after T. Dexter. In order to increase his following by including men, he has to make men more willing to accept the environment of wild emotionalism he promotes. And given the reaction of the pimped fellow behind me, T. Dexter is succeeding.
So you are saying that if I scream “GLORY!!” or “I LOVE GOD!!!” I am wrong? I believe it is the intention of your words I understand the emotional part but what if it is sincere? I guess I can’t scream for Jesus that makes me wrong? Or if I encourage others to shout his name on high that it as well is wrong… Help me Mel..
(MN: If you think you are worshiping God when you shout these things, I believe you are wrong - not for the shouting, but for the believing. It’s not wrong to shout “GLORY!!!” or to shout “I LOVE GOD” any more than it is wrong to shout “I LOVE CHIPOTLES!” or “H:LOTS!!!”. But neither of those is worshiping God. And neither are they worshiping Chipotles or H:LOTS.
As I said, worship is a great deal more than jumping up and down, waving your arms around, and screaming and shouting. Are you worshiping the Orioles when you stand and shout when one of them hits a home run? Are you worhipping the Steelers when you twirl a yellow towel?
These pimps would have you believe you are worshipping God when you jump around. They would have you believe you are worshipping God when you shout your throat hoarse. They are wrong.
Are you worshipping God when you seek to understand - and obey - what He teaches in His word? If I come to understand that their is virtually no justification to divorce my wife but I divorce her anyway and then stand in the church jumping up and down, shouting, and crying am I worshipping God?
And rather than trying to put words in my mouth, how about addressing the references I made to Romans and Jesus’ statement in John. Do they say you are wrong? Do they say you are right?)
What I am saying is that if I do that I am worshipping God not because I am shouting but because I mean what I say. Whether I whisper it or shout it. Do you understand what I am saying Mel? I don’t believe that T.D. and whoever else you are talking about on here are saying that just because you shout it out loud that you are God by shout and even quietly. I am just trying to understand where you coming from thats all Mel. No Disrespect..
Wacksite, I believe that what Melvin is opposed to is the contention by Jakes that jumping and shouting is a badge of honor. That to do so is somehow spiritually beneficial to both the jumper and his children.
The point isn’t that Melvin is opposed to jumping and shouting per se……..Melvin believes (based upon my understanding of his report, I may be wrong)that it is spiritually neutral at best. Jakes is the one putting a value on it.
(MN: ON THE NOSE GARYV!!! ON THE NOSE!!! [Notice that I was shouting just then. I was also jumping up and down while I waved my hands around.] )
Terrific Melvin!!! Please let us know as soon as possible what benefits your children derived from your unrestrained display of phoney emotionalism
Do you ever disagree with Melvin? Huh?
I Like Pan Pizza, he likes thin crust pizza. I like the Ravens, he likes the Steelers. I like puppy dogs, long walks on the beach at sunset and laughing over hot cocoa. He likes going to the gym, weight lifting, and beating up Cub Scouts for their lunch money.
But more than that, we both like giving attention to the word, studying it carefully and honestly, and conforming our lives to what it says. Thus we tend to say the same things with respect to the pimps and Christian living.
Why do you ask?
Hey freedom………let’s say that Melvin and I are mathemeticians.
We come across a bunch of dupes who, because of their lack of education, insist that 2+2=5.
Melvin, through his thorough research, has concluded that 2+2=4.
I also have concluded the same thing……..2+2=4.
Since it is a FACT that 2+2=4, why would it be strange that Melvin and I agree, and confront the dupes who insist 2+2=5??
Our agreement, as well as our desire to correct the duped, is based upon the mutual, independent discovery of FACTS.
It’s the same with the Bible………what we espouse is based upon careful Biblical studies. FACTS. Therefore, we agree, because FACTS cannot be denied, and they are easily arrived at INDEPENDENTLY by ANYONE willing to do the work.
If this isn’t clear, I can get some crayons for you and illustrate it.
Your Days are numbered Melvin.
You’ve been targeted. We HaVE ALL OF YOUR INFORMATION. YOU’RE ACTIVITIES ARE BEING MONITORED WHEN YOU LEAST EXPECT IT. TRUST ME, HOMO - THIS IS NOT A GAME OR A BLUFF. YOU DON’T KNOW US, BUT WE CERTAINLY KNOW YOU. FROM HERE ON OUT, WATCH YOUR EVERY STEP, BEACUSE WE ARE. YOUR DAYS OF VERBALLY DESECRATING GOD’s CHOSEN VESSELS AE COMING TO A CLOSE.
WE’RE IN YOUR NEIGHBORHOOD, YOUR GARDEN, AND EVERYWHERE YOU LEAST EXPECT.
HERE IS YOUR PERSONAL INFORMATION IS:
Melvin Jones
****** ******
Wynwood, PA 19096
****** ****** *****
MJONES-111@*******
Server name: a.ns.bytemark.co.uk
b.ns.bytemark.co.uk
GOD IS TIRED OF YOUR FOOLISHNESS. (MN: And I believe He is even more tired of your moronic behavior. Seven words: STUDY YOUR BIBLE AND GET A LIFE. )
Let the games begin….
(MN: Okay - you know how to use WHOIS on Google. I’m impressed. Now check for the currency of the information. Even though I am no E. B. White, I would still suggest you stop wasting time learning cute little Google tricks and take a class in spelling.
And given the lack of accuracy of your information, I don’t think you do know me. )
Hey Melvin,
This is the same guy that has been harassing other people on another discussion board that I participate on. He is a moron.
Good grief………….what an idiot
It’s amusing…….you call out the DOCTRINE and DECEPTION of the Pimp-o-Choice, and they call you unloving.Despite the clear Biblical admonitions………no, COMMANDS……..to do so.
Then…………these Apostles of Love threaten you.Apparently in love .
We have a Biblical mandate to be watchmen upon the wall, warning the sheep. What Biblical mandate is there to threaten those going about their Father’s business??
Targeted……….you’re a hypocrite.
Melvin did a good job in extending the point that i was making. I don’t believe that shouting to the message or waving your hands is wrong in itself. Neither do i want to give the impression that it is gay of a man to show emotion. But my problem is that, it appears that Jakes and other so called leaders are making an attempt to make men more feminine. I suppose like crying or running around is an idicator of “worship”..That is the problem that i have as well as Melvin. Worship is nothing more and nothing less than obeying God’s word.
to the other degree i find that alot of times folk get turned off to people who aren’t outwardly emotional. Sometimes folk will approach you to see if everything is ok. So for Jakes to criticize the men for not showing emotion, means that he’s not clear on what to demand from the people according to God’s will.
Thanks, truthofgod
That’s clear
“He-motions”…………..HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!
When do verses such as Matthew 6:7 apply?
Does even apply to these type of situations?
When attending these type of churches myself,
I usually find myself alone in not standing or waving my hand. Larger congregations there may be a few men who do not shout, yell, or wave.
But I agre with TruthforGod, people seem to approach you and ask if everything is okay when your not doing everything everybody else is doing.
I guess I should just tell them, NO ITS NOT OKAY!
I agree with Mel’s assessment of TD and the revival. It’s largely a hustle. They make appeals to our emotions - and this is they are more effective pimping off women. His chastisement of the men is an attempt to mave us more vulnerable to the pimping.
This stuff boils down to entertainment and emotional drama. That was my first and last new years revival.
Melvin,
You have done well man. I do have a few questions. Was there any people getting “so-called” slain in the spirit? Did you hear any “so-called” speaking in tongues? Did you have the opportunity to see the collection plate get passed around?
Kyle
(MN: I didn’t stay long enough for that. Usually the slaying stuff doesn’t happen until after the sermon or once the “Spirit gets high.” I only stayed for about 20 minutes of his sermon. I love y’all but I’m not a masochist. )
I’m new to the site. I just discovered it last week. I just wanted to say that I’m so glad you are doing this. I grew up in Chicago as a teen in the 90s and my mother was so brainwashed. She would have my sister and I out on school nights late to see whatever A-list preacher that came to town. I saw her blindly give all of her money to these people because she was convinced helping their ministries was the right thing. She even gave all the money I received as graduation gifts to Shambach because she was told it’ll be pressed down, shaken together and running over. I was just over the lottery ticket mentality. I was a kid and everytime I protested it, I was told I was rebellious. I’m sorry to rant and get off topic but I wish she had this website years ago. My mom would give them her last and my family suffered so much all because she was brainwashed by the pimps.
Tish, are you sure you didn’t read my journal? I went through the same exact thing with my mother. She gave her money to the Bakker’s, Tilton, Shambach, TBN, Copeland, etc. (I was an 80’s teen). We also suffered as a result of her waiting for her “blessings” to come down. To make a long story short, my mother then got the ‘moving’ bug. She moved us to about 3 different states chasing after these preachers and looking for that ‘anointing.’ I lost several college scholarships because she moved twice during my junior/senior year in high school. My high school transcripts show 6 moves in 4 years. This topic is kinda painful for me because I still have a lot of resentment due to this.
Hi Tish……..we’re glad you’re here. Sorry to hear about your mom. Your mom’s heart was probably in the right place, but she got caught up in the Pimpology.
Glad to see that God has opened your eyes to recognize the Truth.
I was a teenager in the 90s also and I too got caught up in this on a small level. I went to a C.O.G.I.C church that practiced this nonsense. Thankfully I walked away from the church because of infidelity of the pastor and drug use amongst the flock. This is not to say that I am perfect but is rather a reflection of the broken sinful nature of man and if under the direction of Word Faith doctrine these souls in the church are forever lost because the real issue of sin is never addressed. In fact COGIC churches were one of four main sects that have their direct beginnings with the Azusa Street Revival. I only hope that one day they will seek out the real Jesus and have a true change of heart.
Kyle
Kyle, you and I were in the same boat. I was licensed to preach in the C.O.G.I.C., but alot of the things they did never set right with me. I’ve been in the $100 lines, still waiting to get my million dollars promised by some of the big named preachers in the organization. Stuff really didnt set well with me, and I got out. My mom, and Sister, and brother-in-law are still there, and they just say they ignore the things they dont agree with, and keep going. My mother, and my entire family grew up COGIC, so that’s why they have a hard time leaving
binks
Melvin, I have a question for you as well. Did the offer those in the audience an oppurtunity to accept Christ in their life? Did they even have something set up for those who came to accept Jesus a place or a pamphlet to direct the new converts to ministries that will disciple them? What is the purpose of a revival? To revive the people in the church? Help me
(MN: As I said, I only stayed about twenty minutes into the sermon. I have no idea of the processes in place with respect to evangelizing, discipling, or any other similar activities. )
Thanks Melvin.I apologize for that misunderstanding.
I can anwser that question ce. Yes he did invite people to christ and yes they did pass out pamphlets to direct the new converts to ministry. But I guess you all are going to question what they had in the pamphlets. I guess it probably wasn’t anything that could help them or that maybe it was one of his advertisements to some of his products.
Melvin I think you should have stayed all night. Not just to pick and se what you wanted to see. And to you “truth” what is wrong with show kids how to praise God, just because he said that doesn’t mean he does believe that they shouldn’t live holy lives duhhh!!! Get serious and a little more reasonable people. Melvin for someone as intelligent as you I would expect a better report or arguement on this week.
Until we meet again!!!
Wacksite,
First off your “name” is an insult to pulpit-pimps.org. Hmmmm, the name implies that you think that this webSITE is Wack. Well let me tell you something my friend until Melvin came along with Pulpit Pimps the only sites out there were ones exposing these frauds. Now people of God can come together and discuss the blatant scams these people are foisting upon the world and the bilking of millions of dollars usually from the poor and minorities.(when I say minorities I mean old folks too)
Wacksite how do you justify million dollar homes, expensive suits, and bling bling? Wacksite answer these questions.
Was Jesus materialistically rich?
Were the 12 Apostles also rich?
What is more important Holiness or seed harvest?
Have you ever given money to Word Faith teachers in exchange for prayer cloths,trinkets,books, or anointing oil?
Do you speak in tongues?
Do you agree with the often used term, “touch not thine anointed” espoused often times by Word Faith teachers when they are questioned?
On average do you find yourself praying for forgiveness, wisdom, and lost souls more than blessings, victory, and health?
Do you “claim” things in the name of Jesus or do you ask for the Lord to fill a need IF it is “his” will for you?
Answer these questions and you may get a better understanding of yourself and the truth. I am not trying to start a verbal confrontation I am asking these questions in all humbleness.
Kyle
Wacksite, I was being a little sarcastic to the statement I had made earlier, but I was also seriously asking if these events took place. However, thank you for your observation. It seems to me that you are very defensive of these people. You do not have to defend them so adamantly. I have sat in several of TD Jakes conferences but refuse to go to any more, but I asked these questions because at times with big events like these the people are overlooked pushed to the side by these security guards and armourbearers and the like. Just wanted some insight. Thanks
Ce
Defensive just as you are about how you feel about these pastors as well. I am not defensive of these pastors and bishops. I just am getting insight on why you do what you do in the manner that you are doing it. I have a heart for what is right. I mean I am not saying that what I am saying is the gospel I am just saying that a lot of what you people choose to talk about can be a little off. I don’t come past here too often but when I do I just say what I say then roll. Oh and by the way thanks Mel for posting me I know I haven’t been on the my best behavior previously. But I thank you that you did in spite of what happened before. Just as Go would do.
This is what happens when people misinterpet what is being said. Melvin didn’t have to stay for the whole thing to know what it was about. We have all seen how T. D. Jakes works and we know all about the he-motions. This what he preaches and it’s not going to change just because someone doesn’t like what God has shown his people that want to know the truth about these pimps. It all comes down to the truth. If I was getting a bunch of stuff that wasn’t edifying the body of Christ, I would have left early too. It can get to be too depressing to handle when you know that they are trying to get over on the people and they will get over on a lot them. Selah (Think on these things)
For some reason, a post that I posted twice earlier this year never made it to this site but it is interesting that Melvin would say the same thing that I had said in that every new year we get the same prophecies at the either the New Year’s ever service or the first “prohesying of the year.
Here is what Mevin said of T.D. Jakes.
“And of course during this time, he assured us that the new year was going to make up for all the years of loss I had suffered before, etc., etc., etc.. ”
Here is an excerpt of what I said I have learned in the WOF and modern day Charismatic church.
“*Every year, usually at the New Year’s eve service you know a lot of prophecies will come forth and will go something like this. “This is the year that God is gonna release a supernatural outpouring of His Spirit and the saints are gonna take back what the devil stole from them.(Now I never knew that Satan stole anything from me). There are gonna be businesses starting, finances are coming and this year the wealth of the wicked will be released to the saints(I actually heard something similar to this once). hose os you who have been bound will be set free…..” and you know the rest.
Al,
You forgot the most important phrase of all used by these vipers, “The year of overflow”. Every year its the same phrase. If your one of those sheeple who follow the pimps and every year you hear the same phrase yet your pocketbook is just as empty than you need to wake up NOW. Hey everyone, 2007 is the year of overflow……………………Just ask TD, Creflo, Crouch, Hinn, Parsley, Clement, and who ever else you can think of.
Kyle
Melvin, greetings and blessings to you. I was introduced to your site about a month ago and now I am a regular visitor. I grew up on the teachings of TD Jakes, Creflo, Price, Joyce, Paula, Miles Monroe and others. I’ve also giving money to various ministries and yes, I even own a copy of He motions by TD Jakes in which to me was a great book! I’ve been to a few of the events sponspored and I have always wanted to visit these mega churches to feel the annointing and see what I was missing. Now– I am in constant conflict with myself trying to discern the truth bewtween what I was taught and information on this site. I was reading one of the previous posted comments about the “year of overflow”. I hear this statement every year from the same people- creflo, jakes etc etc. Keep up the great work– people may not believe everything you write but you are giving them food for thought! -Marcus-
(MN: You make it all worth while. Thanks. )
What the pimps really mean is, its the year of overflow for them!
To the Child whose mom was being a groupie and following these evanglists all over the country, my heart goes out to you.
When these people follow these televison personalties, even where galavanting across the country, something is quite wrong with their mind. Even Noel Jones, who is one of the main people in this movement, tells his parishioners, “do not give your rent money.” meaning that do not give your all and ignore the basic nessesities in life (Water, Telephone, Electric, Gas, etc..)
But who will these followers turn to when their basic survival get turned off? Not these guys, because they have theirs.
First, I am not a child. Second, my mother was not being a ‘groupie.’ Third, my mother is quite sane and doing very well. Fourth, God finally removed the scales from her eyes and lifted the veil of deception. Thank God. You have no idea how many tears that I have shed and prayed about this.
She bought their BS hook, line, and sinker. Considering that this took place directly after my father died in the line of duty (police officer), I am glad that she chose Jesus over alcohol and drugs. My life could have been much worse. I still went on to graduate from one of the best engineering colleges (Top 3) in this nation and I have a very successful career. As a matter of fact, I am bored and plan to enter law school this fall. My mother couldn’t be prouder. Despite losing the scholarships, I MADE IT with God’s grace, help and guidance.
I have never been homeless or on the brink of destitution as a child or as an adult. I haven’t missed a meal either (you can look at me and tell that).
I have never been without utilities or any such sundry.
My mother was seeking the truth. These charlatans totally misrepresented themselves and the supposed Gospel that they espoused.
Ephesians 6:12 states, ” For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.”
In respect to my mother, I consider the principalities of this scripture to be these errant denominations/religions. The rest is self-explanatory.
Due to the abuse that I have seen and experienced in these churches, I have become a major skeptic. I started going back to church because I felt a void. I went through 3 churches in 2 years because I knew something was wrong with what they were teaching. Finally, I just gave up and started reading the Bible for myself. I have no interest in stepping foot in another one of those dens of iniquity. I allow the Holy Spirit to direct and guide me. This has kept me on the straight and narrow.
Anyway…sorry about the rambling.
I think that was a capital C child as in Child of God. I think.
You’re Melvin’s groupie!
(MN: We have a new drive-by commenter, ladies and gentlemen!!! Welcome Freedom. )
Welcome freedom. Sorry, but I don’t believe that Melvin’s wife would allow him to have a harem.
Well, I don’t know you, but it seems like you just about agree with EVERYTHING Melvin says. Groupies kinda worship people! Be your own person, don’t let others peoples feelings about certain individuals become yours. Remember, you don’t know Melvin. It seems like everytime someone disagrees or challenges Melvin, it’s so much backlash thrown at the person. I feel that people who disagree are afraid to comment on this website for fear of some sort of backlasing. I mean, there are only 2 or 3 people to disagree with Melvin sometimes, the rest of the bunch just repeats what he says and never doubts anything. I didn’t mean to call you a groupie, but that is what I sense from this group of followers sometimes. I just want to voice my opinion freely rather you agree or disagree.
Aren’t you expressing your view freely right now?
This site is as anonymous as a forum can be. You are free to say what you want. The only pressure you will ever get here, the only pressure I can ever apply, is the pressure of the truth.
No one is pressured by their peers since no one knows who their peers are. No one is forced to visit. No one is forced to read any of the postings or comments. No one is forced to agree or disagree.
I suspect that many of you who complain have never had to actively and agressively defend your beliefs or actions. Even here you don’t have to defend them. But if you are going to participate in the discussion you do have to bring more to the table that platitudes and cliches. But one thing you will not get from me are the usual cliches about something being “life changing” or “Helping you to posture yourself for this or that” or other fairly meaningless, but really spiritual sounding utterances. And if you choose to say something was life changing I will ask you to give evidence of the change.
No one makes you visit the site. No one makes you read the postings or the comments. No one makes you engage in any discussions that may take place here. Your involvement is of your own volition. If you feel threatened or pressured, don’t lay it on me. I can’t pressure you. I can’t convict you. I can’t make you do anything. The only thing I can do is present the truth as best I understand it, provide the rationale for what I am saying (from Scripture) and let you decide if you are going to run with it or not.
If you choose not to run with it, I will never know. If you choose to and you don’t tell me, I will never know. The site is not here to gain members for the Melvinite Church of Greater and Greater Glory and Fantastic Utterences. It is here to warn the unwary of the pimps and to equip them should they decide to escape. It also provides those who have already escaped objective information about the pimps to use as they see fit.
I’m not trying to be your daddy and none of you are children. Think for yourselves and stop using me as an excuse to ignore the truth.
Again - no one forces you visit the site. You didn’t even have to read this comment!
Some how i never seem to hear such uproar in regards to the incorrect teachings of these so called pastors. Even when heresies are being taught to the point where the congregation begins to question - no one has anything to say. Yet all of a sudden you have a minority that is concerned about their souls enough to challenge those teachings and everyone comes out of the woodwork with thier 2, 3, 4, and 5 cents. Ironically, the major argument is that “you can’t judge, let God deal with it”, but they still felt compelled to correct YOU of YOUR error. Very interesting.
Groupie? Melvil! Where’s my occasional slap? Where is your groupie bus or jet, so I can hang out and wait for you to board, just to touch the “hem” (BTW-Gary that was a WONDEFUL elaboration of the hem Jesus and the Apostles wore) of your garment? Or maybe I can hang out and just wait for you to take out the garbage and scream in adulation when I see you…while holding up a sign “MELVIL ! Your the annoted mand of Gawd”…..lol. C’mon. That is a laugher. I am not that.
Who is really the groupie? Individuals (especially leaders) are accountable with regard to how they live and whom they associate with. At least some individuals cite the Word of God for their defense, whether you agree or not. All I see are Haters, Haters, Haters, ….wahh, wahh, waah. C’mon. Come up with a better defense if something is going to be said at all.
No I do not know some of these men, but in all fairness does it hurt that much because the man is being put on BLAST for improprieties regrading the Word of God, but one scripture can’t be cited in his defense? I mean TRUE defense? Who is hungry for the Word? What are you in this for? Yourself? How the messages make you feel? The “awesome” worship experiences? What you are ENTITLED to from God? What does this all really mean to you? Jesus is certainly not a “feel good” individual….just ask Peter, James and John.
Groupie: (noun)
1 : a fan of a rock group who usually follows the group around on concert tours
2 : an admirer of a celebrity who attends as many of his or her public appearances as possible.
Rock-star, and celebrity. Hmmm….Now I say again…..WHO is the groupie?
I disagree. I don’t agree with everything Melvin has to say. I really don’t like church/religious people in general. Most of the so called Christians that I have met and dealt with have turned out to be hateful, vile people. However, I also don’t agree with people taking advantage of people who are looking for HOPE. These pimps take advantage of people and do it in the name of Jesus. That’s wrong! If I had my way, I would smite most of these so called Christians/Churchians.
However, at least the people on this site attempt to back up what they have to say with scripture. Most Christians can’t and then they turn around and say, “because I said so” or “because my Pastor says so” or “because the Bible said it.” but they can’t back it up. I am tired of senior citizens, widows, orphans, economically/educationally disadvantaged people being hurt. It’s wrong on so many levels.
I am siting here reading the posts here and I think back to when everyone would come to Jesus and he would get to the heart of why they really wanted to follow him. It seemed that after he exposed their true motive, they all turned away.
In defense of these *ahem* (I won’t use the “P” word), a lot of people are coming to God with the wrong motives and the *ahem* (you know the word) give them what they think they are looking for. You cannot mislead someone who is TRULY looking to follow Jesus for the right motive. if my motive were in money and riches, YES, I will follow these *ahem* imps(for lack of that other word). But if I want the truth I would soon turn away from such foolishness and follow Christ. Jesus talked so much about the dangers of riches that one would think before they go whole heartedly after it. I mean, “it is harder for a rich man to enter heaven….” is enough me make me stop and think. It did to the disciples. So i would say it is all in the motives of the ones wanting to follow Christ. I say most in American want the almighty dollar instead of Jesus. Look around you, listen to the sermons, very few people believe God will supply all of their “NEEDS” but they will confess it in conferences all day long. And is every need consisting of money? Hmm. What does it profit a man………..
And whose groupie are you, Freedom?? Jakes………Hinn……..Parsley……..Crouch………Dollar??
If you agree with someone, can we call you a groupie??
Great Move of God!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Although from what I’ve read he was asked not to work that night.
Melvin, you are indeed a trooper. It took a lot of strength to sit and listen to such nonsense. You should have turned to your neighbor and said “this is ridiculous!”
Absolutely!
I once went to a church where the Pastor was like YOOOOOVE Bentargeted or BENTOTARGET whatever. This Pastor even threatened to kill a 25 year old woman if she talked to me again. Of course when I asked him about it he backed down and admitted he only used those tactics on people who’s heads he knew he could bump. Some of the other members thought they would drop dead if he found out they talked to me. This spirit of fear is what the pimp dupers promote. There is nothing Christ like about the spirit operating in groups “called churches” that seek to control people with intimidation. If the men you think you are defending can’t handle their teachings being scrutinized that’s proof they don’t operate in God’s truth because if they did they would have nothing to fear. And they would not encourage and insight people like YOOVE… to try to scare away anyone who examines their doctrines. They will jet around the country and lay out on Carribean beaches while their pitiful followers earn nothing but the wrath of God for being fools. The only thing afraid of light is DARKNESS. Come out of the dark, what you uttered in your posting is no more than witchcraft. I experienced so much of this in the South where ppeople are still operating in so much fear and trying to conjure up voodoo type spells on people who don’t go along to get along. What Bible lesson taught you to utter such ramblings to people who examine the scriptures?
EDRA: With God as my witness, it has not been five minutes since I read the threat made by “yooove bentargeted,” when I came across your reply. Out of my belly came these words: “This foul spirit is a “pastor” or works under the auspices of a leader of a l-a-r-g-e group called a “church.” All I ask is that you and I pray in the spirit and agree—touching this thing through intercession made by the Holy Spirit. That we give thanks to the Father (1) who ALWAYS causes us to triumph in Christ Jesus, and (2) for the Holy Spirit interceding for Melvin and the rest of the Saints ACCORDING TO THE WILL OF GOD.
Beryl (Beryle)
Agreed.
Hey everyone! Quite an interesting post! or posts I should say. First let me say this. We must do all we can to stand firm in the Word of God. I too have gone to many churches and would stay for a time to get a feel for it and each time either I felt like I was going insane because I was always listening to what parishioners were saying or the pastors and etc.etc. or I fell short of the standards I would run. If God wants to reveal the truth to me HE WILL. I used to think that they might be right and I was wrong. Now time is really short, and I don’t or we don’t have time for games. Lives are being decieved all the time. Man, I just woke up from a major slumber a few years back and all the things that had been revealed tome are now playing out faster than I can fathom. I am either running across true believers that are not even in churches or starting to get discouraged about church. I want to be all that I can be for Yahashua and be in the batle field to trying at leastto win some souls for Christ. My own family thinks I should be in a nuthouse because I am telling them about the bible. They can’t even see what is going on in the world or even check out their own bible to see if what I am saying is the truth. By the way I did go to the looney bin over 20 yrs. ago because people did not belive in the things that were happening to me. But now I have a better understanding of what happened and the passion for Christ is being rekindled. We don’t have much time left and it is true, that we are being led to the slaughter blindly. I am physically 100% deaf and if I can hear what the Spirit is saying woe to them that can hear and can’t hear what the Spirit is saying. The true believers are quite few in number compared to the majority of the world. Pretty sad indeed. I know that there are only a few people I can relate to in terms of the true word of God. I am so grateful to my brother who told me to read it to begin with even though it was not his fault as to what happened to me as a result of reading it. satan nearly destroyed me, but God in His infinate Love for me protected me. I was homeless, abused, rejected, raped, and the list could go on and on. But who cares about all that? I have overcome. Still have a shortcoming here and there but God is my # 1 and I love His son Jesus(Yahashua)who has promised me the Holy Spirit literally in a dream. Many dreams I have had and it was He who was teaching me the Bible when I wasn’t even studying it. He is so awesome! I even dreamt of the wedding feast. These are the days of Elijah. I have often said of myself that I am like a John the Baptist. Go into the cave for awhile and then come out to shout. So now I will say to all who reads this, Repent, repent, repent!!! Don’t you want to live forever? I had that dream too. I even dreamt the scripture 2Timothy3:16. I didnot know it was in there until I told someone of this dream and he showed me where it was. I had more exps. but am getting ready for bed. To the saints and watchmen of this board keep doing the work that you have been called to do, for time is short. Until we meet let’s fight the good fight. And run the race of righteousness. It is not about money at all. My heart is very rich and I have less than a hundred in the bank. God Bless!
Mel,
I agree with everything that you have said. I think that it’s awesome that we still have purveyors of the Word of God such as yourself that take the time to actually contend for the faith. I do have one question though and I want to let you know that this question does not come with a hidden agenda and that my earlier commendation was not meant to mask the question I am about to ask.
I will post your statement in the article and then ask the question. You said:
One thing that I found interesting was his apparent effort to embarrass the men in the audience to jump up and down and shout. He claimed that our boys need to see their fathers shouting and see us being emotional. He said we shouldn’t just sit there quietly. I, on the other hand, think our sons and daughters need to see us living holy and consistent lives, being faithful and supporting men. But that’s just me.
How does that constitute embarrasing the men? Boys do need to view their fathers emotions in a healthy and biblical way. The method that Jakes was suggesting was not necessarily unbiblical. I just didn’t understand the attack on that particular portion of the sermon presentation. You are 100% correct in that sons most of all need to see holiness as it relates to following biblical standards set by God and see it lived out on a consistent basis, but I think that Jakes in this instance was just trying to relate something to his sermon and his omission of what you are suggesting was intentional and does not even come close to doctrinal error . I’ve perused your site several times and I am very thankful for it. You are definitely “contending for the faith.” But just a personal question, “do you think sometimes that because these guys have made so many mistakes that sometimes we become personal with our comments and look for something wrong in EVERYTHING they say because we are already disgusted with them? I know I’ve been guilty of that in my biblical judgment of them. Just a question and an observation that we need to make sure that we’re sticking to evaluations that deal with error of biblical doctrine and not evaluations that are birthed out of personal dislikes and preference. You know? Keep up the good work!
(MN: Here’s the response I gave when I was asked the question the first time:
)
I totally understand what you are saying. Jesus cleared up what worship was in John chapter 4. I think it is also clear from the Scriptures that worship in its purest definition is “obedience to God.” We may add other things to “enhance” worship, and I use that term loosely, however, true worship comes from a life yielded to God.
Religous experiences however do involve emotionalism. The problem is that when these emotions take priority over the Word of God. People judge the Word of God by their experiences rather than their experiences by the Word of God. And you did not say this but you somewhat eluded to it, and that is that we don’t always have emotion when it comes to God and it should never be used as the primary indicator that worship or anything else similar is actually taking place. However, we can’t judge “everybody” who has an emotion and say that they are “caught up” in emotionalism and have no idea what true worship or true Chrisitianity is. We just can’t say that. Jakes has proven that when it comes to the essential tenants of Christianity that he has shown major cracks in his doctrinal presentation. I’ll give you that. You have no argument with me there.
Some people who go to these meeting could actually just fall under the umbrella of ignorace, especially if they have never heard anything to the contrary.
I grew up in the C.O.G.I.C. my entire life went through the entire process of “tarrying” and unlike you it wasn’t a waste of time. It was critical in my development of studying the Word of God for myself. I couldn’t understand why I had to be clean in order to receive the Holy Ghost when the book of Peter declared that his blood had made me “white as snow.” I distinctly remember telling my Pastor that the whole experience made me feel as if I was in competition with Jesus on who could make me cleaner, me or him. It was through that experience that the Holy Spirit, who fulfilled the promise that Jesus made when he said the Spirit will, “lead us into all truth.” It was then that I began to break from C.O.G.I.C. doctrine.
I see that experience as a major positive because I truly found God. I discovered that I receive his Spirit at the moment of salvation, that the evidence of his Spirit is a life that manifests the “fruit of the Spirit” and continues in the words of Jesus. If it wasn’t for that crushing, I wouldn’t have come to know God for myself. I am thankful.
You can throw Jakes in that pot, but the truth of the matter is everyone that has emotion is not some heretic waiting for a platform.
Don’t take this the wrong way, but your intelligence quotient is too high (I can tell by the way you reason the Scriptures), to make blanket statements like that. Mel, for real, everyone who is emotional in a religious setting is not caught up in “wild emotionalism” and void of the truth of God.
(MN: No one is saying that emotion should be automatically equated to “wild emotionalism” nor heresy waiting for a platform. However, I am saying that quite often (especially in places like FBC Glenarde, Potty House, etc.) depend on a fanning of emotion to get actions from the people. Emotion should be the result of our interaction with God, not a proof of some kind of the interaction. I get quite emotional when dealing with God’s word. The other day I was explaining the idea of self-righteousness to a new Muslim friend of mine - using the Pharisee and the tax collector. I have to say, every time I go over that story, I feel an incredible wave of emotion. )
Emotion is a fine companion, but a dangerous leader.That’s all we’re saying.
I want to address Gary V’s comment first. By the way I think this is a great discussion and should engender further fellowship among the brethren in the Lord.
GaryV, your comment that emotion is a “fine companion” is only partially true from my perspective. I believe that it is a God-given companion. The key is to bring everything including “emotions” under the controlling power of the Holy Spirit. I know that you’re saying that you’re not saying that emotion is bad, but from someone who has never been to this site before as myself and who has no biases at all about any of these things that you are talking about, I want to tell you my friend, it sounds exactly like that. I don’t know if you want to maybe clarify your statement more or maybe you’ve allowed the microcosm to become the macro. Maybe you’ve applied your personal perspective to the whole. Maybe you were so jaded by your experiences that you only see the negative now. I don’t know. All I’m saying is that it sounds like it you are saying that you shouldn’t have any emotions at all.
Mel, contrary to your statement, you basically did say that “all” emotionalism is wild emotionalism. And if I misunderstood, please forgive me. However, I would like for you to define what exactly “wild emotionalism” is. Is it wild when others begin to notice you? Is it wild when it can no longer be contained in the confines of your bosom and erupts through your vocal chords in loud speech. Is it “dancing in the spirit.” Is it being too loud? How loud is too loud? I mean what is it?
It just sounds like some things are too much for you personally and that your proposed prohibition of it and casting it into the field of biblical error directly comes from your experiences. I mean Mel, how do you judge the hearts of 5,000 men and women in a single room? Don’t me get me wrong and don’t misunderstand my statement. I am not some covert advocate for Jakes, some spy trying to get close to you, or anything of that nature…it’s just that I think you could be a little more definitive in your prohibitive expression.
Furthermore, I think that when you try to define what it really is you will inevitably run into an area of personal dislikes based on past experiences than you will scriptural based exclusions.
Emotion is not only a result of our interaction with God, it is a result of his interaction with us and it is how he made us. The entire book of Psalms is a book of emotion. I mean Mel if you want to use your biblical interpretive talents to judge whether people are in wild emotionalism at popular preacher’s meetings then go ahead, but it’s really a waste of time, and then the other thing is you really don’t know. Maybe it’s not my ministry, but I don’t get it. I also disagree that emotion can never serve as a proof, because it can. It may not be the primary indicator, but it can definitely serve as proof of many things in life, including worship. That’s all I will say about that.
It seems that you have gone to all emotion to no emotion and that if your internal emotion ever escapes into the external then somehow there’s something wrong. Again, I could be wrong, but that’s what it sounds like.
I also read your essay on marriage. Great read. I’ve just written an article entitled, “Whatever Happened to the Gospel”, that will be featured on the January edition of http://www.blackgospel.com…I‘ll shoot you an email of it. I’ve got a “seminarian version” and then the version that will post on the site. I’d love your thoughts on it.
In His Grip,
Dan
First, ladies and gentlemen, I do apologize for the length of this response. Having said that:
Allow me to give you an illustration of wild emotionalism. A couple of years ago, I went to Ebenezer AME church when they invited Louis (aka Calypso Louie) Farrakhan in to build support for the Millions More March held in DC that year.
Here is a paragraph listed from the original posting: