I gotta run a recon mission this week. We’re looking at the possibility of going deep into enemy territory for a sustained operation and I need to get current intelligence on the layout of the deployment area. Recon mission will take place 2100 Zulu on 11 December. The purpose? More on that in a minute.
Did I tell you I’m revising a tract that I distributed at one of Tricky D’s ManCower - I mean ManPower conferences several years ago? The reason I’m revising it? I’m am seriously considering standing at the top of the Metrorail escalator at the convention center and passing out copies of the tract on the first night of the First Baptist Church of Glenarden’s revival. I suspect most folks are going to get there by Metrorail and thus avoid trying to find parking spaces downtown. And there is, I believe, only one way out of the metro system at the convention center - right by me.
Here’s a copy of the pamphlet I passed out at ManCower 2002. I think it was around 2002. Start reading on the left-hand side of the first page.
Remember - January 3 through 5 is the big First Baptist Church of Glenarden (with John Kenneth Jenkins and T. Dexter Jakes) Revival at the Washington DC Convention Center.
And since I’m a fair-minded kind of guy, I’m even going to give them an hour or so of my time and attend the first night’s activities. If it’s anything like the last affair I attended, or the last performance of his I saw on telelvision, there should be a lot of dancing, jumping, and shouting. And the congregation should be pretty active too. Though it might be little depressing to see a bunch of men jumping around and dancing like a bunch of girls. I wonder if Deacon Lawrence Lee has to attend?
I’m AM going to run reconnaissance on the Metrorail station this Monday right after work. I’ll already be in the train system so it shouldn’t take much time.
Pretty interesting/sweet pamplet………perhaps you should consider placing it in the form of a something appealing, such as a $1000 Bill Bible Tract or something, and throw lots of it up in the air of a church parking lot or something, seeing that money ( and anyone who has it or anyone preaching how you need a whole lot of it to glorify God wherever you’re at, as opposed to simple obediance/submission to His Word/Will) is what many people in the church of America will go for now. That would probably work a good deal, especially at churhes like Mr.Dollar or Copelands and various others…but that’s just me.
Speaking of preaching money/favor, I was wondering about something that I heard a powerful man of God say concerning those teaching in the pulpit without character/integrity for which it should go with. Whenever they say things along the lines of how it’s soley up to the people of God to support/feed the minister with their money/resources (at the expense of the people and not of the pastor), or the pastor gets his followers to buy into the “Speak it and Reap it, Sow it and Mow it, Blab it and Grab it” mentality, or they say things like “I’m good seed, and you reap what you sow, so sow into my minisrty and you’ll reap a hundred fold” or “We need your money to spread to keep this ministry going, so give and we’ll all be blessed”, perhaps they should try something different.
According to their logic/interpretation of Galatians 6:7, they should send 100 dollar bills out of their accounts/wealth (or however much money they want to have multiplied their way) to every one of the many individuals who’ve ever sown into their ministries and speak blessings. That way, they’ll have plenty of money to support themselves and whatever they feel God is calling them too…cause hey, like they’re saying, “You reap what you sow….”
Like the old saying goes, “What’s good for the goose is good for the gander”. How comes, however, the giving only works one way? Just curious….
G-2
Very interesting point. I went to a service last week. The church had just finished being built with a price tag of over a million dollars. The pastor said he would like for everyone to sow into his ministry. He was believing God for $14,000 over a three day period.
Another question for you guys: Do you think churches should invite others preachers to preach solely to try to raise money to pay for their buildings or to raise money for their pastors?
Mr. Anony,
Curious, what are your thoughts on the issue? Do you have any thoughts already on the subject or were you asking because you were trying to formulate an argument from what the Word says?
Love to hear sometime…
Personally, I have a hard time picturing Apostle Paul in a staff meeting in Corinth saying, “Donations are really down this quarter. And the moneylenders are losing their patience. They see the new sanctuary is already built, and that the parking lot is still only half-filled with camels every Sunday. They want their money.
Let’s ask the Rich Young Ruler to come hold a revival. Sure, his doctrine is a bit “iffy”, but money just CLINGS to that boy!!
We’ll put up pamphlets all over the city………we’ll ask Herod to sponsor the revival.We’re a growing sect, and it’ll be a good move politically for him to get on our good side.
Maybe we can get some product sponsors too………I mean, we gotta eat and drink, right??
Barnabas, get ahold of the folks at Red Sea Cola, and see if they want in on this. And I hear that one of the Temple priests is starting his own clothing line. This would be great advertising for him too. His name is Levi………..Levi………STRAUSS. Levi Strauss. Get him too.
Somebody get some special rates at the inns in the area. We need ALL the rooms available for this event.
If any travellers come asking for any of our reserved rooms, tell them to go find a stable and sleep in a manger for all I care.”
What?!?! LOL…..This guy is killin me with these illustrations….:lol:
You might wish to add “anoiting” oil (Spirit in a Bottle) and prayer hankerchiefs blessed by the Apostles for 500 denari each as ways they probably could’ve gained profits…..that and mabye they would’ve possibly sold sandals endorsed/worn by Peter Himself much like Air Jordans (Michael Jordan gots jumps/air, but Peter sea walks, man…)
G2: You’re too young to be influenced by GaryV and “Mevil.” But I feel you son! LOLOLOL!
(MN: Remember - Mevil uses mind control and is busy creating more mind numbed robots to do his bidding in the world or religion. Mwa-ha-ha-ha!!! )
(LOL) Stop trippn’n, brah….
Mrs.Beryle,
Perhaps too young to be influenced by GaryV and Mevil with sarcasm or wit, but never too young (and no one else for that matter who reads this) to proclaim the Word……or to Spread the Good News (note: Gotta hear the bad first, like the seriousness of sin/incorrect doctrine and the Anger of Godf and facing issues contrary to the heart of God, to appreciate the good)… and to grow in Godliness/Truth so that God’ll be seen and man’ll be saved, like 1 Timothy 4:7-16 says:
7Have nothing to do with godless myths and old wives’ tales; rather, train yourself to be godly. 8For physical training is of some value, but godliness has value for all things, holding promise for both the present life and the life to come.
9This is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance 10(and for this we labor and strive), that we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, and especially of those who believe.
11Command and teach these things. 12Don’t let anyone look down on you because you are young, but set an example for the believers in speech, in life, in love, in faith and in purity. 13Until I come, devote yourself to the public reading of Scripture, to preaching and to teaching. 14Do not neglect your gift, which was given you through a prophetic message when the body of elders laid their hands on you.
15Be diligent in these matters; give yourself wholly to them, so that everyone may see your progress. 16Watch your life and doctrine closely. Persevere in them, because if you do, you will save both yourself and your hearers.
Again, for you as well as Mr.Melvin and so many others on this site, ya’ll are a blessing!!! Later….
GaryV: Boy, yoo’s been hangin’ ’round Mevil too long (or vise versa, vice versa….or the other way ’round). But this accurately describes the lack of the fear of God displayed by today’s mend of gawd.
I was the shy wallflower before coming under Melvin’s influence.
Now I’m a sassy 5 Point Calvinist.
If I could grow a decent beard (and get a SERIOUS tan) I’d try to pass myself off as his brother. LOL
You forgot Barrabas is out & he needs help finding some work….Pimp Security anyone?
LOL Grid!!!!!
Grid, you too is a riot! I would comment on the Pimp Security, but it would’nt be too “nice.”
Pray for me—I’m a Leo—but don’t put much stock in that…. 
No any church that does this is doing for self and for self gain. Why do you need to spend thousands of dollars for someone to come in and pimp the people and then their is no relationship with the pastor, the church or even the people. When pastors invite the pimps what they are saying is, is that “I am willing to sacrifice the people and the will of God then to obey him. The scriptures in Hosea read as follows. Like people like priest Hosea 4:9. In other words whatever the pastor is that is what the people are. If he is a pimp then the people are pimpettes.
Last point notice you said to preach to raise money. That is exactley the point. The motive behind their preaching is “money’ not for souls. God cannot be contained by a building built with man’s hands. He is too big and too great for all of that. He shoudl be in the hearts. Churches concentrate on a ‘building” than rather “building” the kingdom of God.
On a personal note I as a pastor have seen more growth in the ministry when I was led by the Spirit of God to give up the building we were in and move into a community facility. I thought it was going to be the end for us. But my faith was tested because I just want God. The ministry (notice I say “the ministry) because it is God’s church and His Ministry. the ministry has tripled in size because of that. People follow heart attitude and not the fluff stuff. If the pastor did that he should be the only one attending the service and left stuck holding the bill to pay the pimp.
Well as I stated earlier in another topic. I have a neutral stance regarding the prosperity gospel. Some things I agree with some things I don’t agree with. I pray and seek the Word of God for myself so that I may not be lead astray. I also believe that prosperity isn’t just money but also peace, love, joy, strength to endure trials and so forth. The reason I thought your post was interesting is because I have never heard of a preacher giving to each member of the congregation. If the wealth is going to be spread it should not only spread to the preacher but also to the congregation.
Alot of times we want financial blessings. We expect for money to be in our mailbox or for someone to walk up to us and give us money. But God will give us the power to obtain wealth. So that means:
1.If you want a better paying job, go to school and get your degree.
2. Give to others and pray for them.
3. Tithe.
4. Work responsibly, be on time for work, learn all you can in your present position, don’t waste company time and in due time you will be promoted.
Cool comments, Mr. Anony…..
Curious, I’d love to hear sometime about the things that you agree/disagree on with the prosperity messages spoken today.
Kinda Like you, I also tend to take the stance that Gods Word, although not explicitly against financial prosperity, seems to place more emphasis on seeking to being prosperous/rich in one’s relationship with Him or in the fruits of the Spirit as opposed to in terms of what’s temporal/finite….can’t take physical riches into the Kingdom of Heaven on Judgement. Also, although there are some things that I extremely disagree with (ex. Seeking wealth/wanting to be rich in money, claiming blessings apart from blessing the Lord in living a lifestyle pleasing to Him, etc), there are some things that I do believe to be true because of how many of the principles that prosperity mesages are based on seem to be things from the Word that have been either taken out of context or stretched/twisted to suit the wrong purposes.
Again, from what you’ve studied in the Word, what are your thought and why?
I jsut stumbled onto your site. Nice post & pamphlet. I too am very concerned with the destructive heresies that men like T.D. Jakes and others that are being accepted by Christians.
On an iron-sharpening-iron note: I think that I understand your reason for the “pulpit-pimps” title, but do you think that it might be deterimental to what seems to be your overall goal - to esteem Christ and His gospel.
I know that the Bible speaks in very explicit language when refering to false teachers and the like (clouds without water, autum trees without fruit - doubly dead, etc).
Anyway, I hope that if you go to the conference that God uses you to make a difference.
Ditto…
My man do it big. It is good to see a site that talks about this pimpery.
Mel….don’t know what to make of it…..but it “appears” that ya boy Antoine may be switchin’ up a bit….he actually stated that he agreed with what you and G. Craige were talking about as he was listening to the podcast of the interview……looks like he may be pullin’ a “Wacksite” as his understanding opens….just an observation though.
Guess who’s Back!!!
There you go hating again Melvin!!! Keep it simple and stop hating!!! Sheeeesh!!! Just pray for the man!! But going through all that just to make a man look bad is just simply ridiculous.
Wait a minute I don’t want all of your followers to jump on my back!! I am sorry - Go Melvin Go!!! Work the metro!!! Down with Jakes!!! Down with Jakes!!!
Sorry Melvin you know I know I don’t mean anything by it. Its just my opinion…. Maybe I will return after the revival!!! Let me know how it goes!!
Melvin didn’t have to do a thing to make the man “look bad” Wack………..the man does it all by himself.
Melvin just provides a format to highlight how bad they look. Funny………..I don’t ever recall seeing John Macarthur on here. Or Voice of the Martyrs. Or John Piper.
Nope…………..they don’t “look bad”. They’re doctrinally sound. They don’t pimp the church.
If these “ministers” exposed here were doctrinally sound…………if they would stop pimping the church………they wouldn’t BE HERE either.
Maybe we should help Melvin out. …do a little something to make the time pass by quickly while he waits for another uninformed victim to rush by to go in and give their money.
Maybe we should compose our own 12 Days of Christmas (the WOF way) song that he can sing while waiting.
I’ll start it out.
On the first day of Pimpin’,
mammon gave to me
A Cadillac and a money tree.
(MN: I almost choked on my pretzel when I read this! )
I tend to have that effect on people.
I’ll help you out!
On the second day of Pimpin’,
mammon gave to me
Two megachurches
A Cadillac and a money tree.
Let’s keep it going.
only because i like sing alongs….
on the 2nd day of pimpin’,
mammon gave to me,
two Rolex watches,
and a cadillac and a money tree……
ok, ok- you guys forced my hand and you know i’d rather stay quiet
but…..
on the twelvth day of pimpin mammon gave to meeee,
12 diamond cufflinks,
11 handmade silk ties
10 pairs of ‘gators
8 fur coats
7 bank accounts
6 homes & villas
5 plat’nuuum bliiiiings
4 trips to europe
3 private chefs
2 rolex watches
and a rolls royce and a money treeeeee.
i think i’ll go to bed now. g’nite
Atta girl Mav!!!!!!!!
oh c’mon paisano, i wanna see your list. i challenge you and grid to top that LOL
What?!!? (Foaming at the mouth/slobbering profusely)
Mav?!? Ok…..
Here goes nuffin’……
On the 12th day of Pimpin’ mammon gave to me:
12 Faith Filled Words
11 Seducing Spirits
10 Lazy Elders
9 KBill Quotes
8 Bynum tapes
7 Measly Dollars
6 of Antoine’s exegesis
5 Triii-cky De-xter Tooooys!
4 Slick Ricks (Warren)
3 Club Tix
2 Purple Suits
And a Rolls Royce with a money treeeeeeeee!
HA HA!!
Seriously, Ya’ll need to stop….
On the 12th day of Pimpin’ Mammon gave to me:
12. new annointings
11. ways to get out of debt
10. ways to take back what the devil stole
9. Kenneth Hagin Books
8. Joel Osteen teeth whitening kits
7. Jamal Byrants suits w/ties
6. Moses staffs
5. Tithe paying members(football & basketball players, and 3 secluar artists!!!!)
4. Peter Popoff devine transfer kits
3. More heretical teachings
2. Books on Td Jakes mannerisms
1. Apostolic mantle
ROFLOL @ calvin’s list.
peter popoffs divine transfer kit - amazing.
uh, guys, nice try- really- but you cant sing yours to the tune, so i win.
and grid, you get an honorable mention but you lost it when you got to #6.
grid,
why is it that every time i say ‘divine transfer kit’- i bust out laughing?
“Honorable Mention” Mav? What?!? I am the MVP of this list…..lol…..c’mon….
On the second day of Pimpin’
Hickey gave to me
A prayer handkerchief
And a Cadillac and a money tree
I was flipping thru the TV last night & came across Barbara Walters special, “The 10 most interesting/fascinating people…” or something to that effect. One of our “favorite” pastors just happened to be one of the 10. It was none other than Mr Olsteen! She was basically applauding his stance on not taking a stance on the controversial issues; gay marriage, politics, etc. He stated again that he doesnt get involved w/those topics. He believes that you just stick to what you know! You would think he would have learned a lesson from the Larry King incident but he seems to just go on w/business as usual. Did anyone else see this?
Good day. I enjoy reading through the commentary on your site as well as watching the videos. I was reading your pamphlet in regards to the trinity and I found it to be interesting as well.
I have a couple of questions for you.
1. Where in the Bible does it state that there is a trinitarian doctrine? A oneness doctrine? Or any kind of doctrine?
2. If they are three, were they ever in the same place at the same time?
3. What is the history of the trinitarian doctrine? The oneness doctrine?
4. How did you come to believe in the trinity? Was it revealed to you and if so by whom?
5. How can you know so much about the Bible? Are there any mysteries in there that you don’t understand? Have you mastered the entire work?
6. Do you have video or references to trinitarian preachers, bishops, deacons and the like who believe in the prosperity doctrines and other false doctrines being preached throughout the world these days?
(MN: Take a look at this posting, read it and the preponderance of comments. Then come back with whatever questions you may still have. )
Thank you for responding so very quickly!!! I’m impressed.
Let’s go through your posting and change the word person, persons, or personalities to spirit or spirits when dealing with God and the Holy Ghost.
Jesus was God in the flesh and therefore became a man. God is a spirit and the Holy Ghost is God’s spirit - so they are spirits and not persons therefore CANNOT have a personality. (Some things are just not mentioned in the scriptures)
Just on the basis of that, we can kill the 3 persons thing. So as trinitarians will say next, ‘they are members’ and not necessarily persons.
But as not to put words in your mouth; if God is a spirit and the Holy Ghost is a spirit how can they be persons. A person is flesh.
We as humans CANNOT join or come together as one flesh, but our SPIRITS can join and become one spirit. We can take on God’s spirit!!! Just as a sinner takes on the devil or his spirits. It’s not a physical or fleshly battle. This is spiritual warfare and all battles are fought accordingly.
So let’s change the wording to identify God, as the scriptures say, as a spirit and the Holy Ghost as it is so named a spirit and refer to Jesus as a person (God in the flesh).
(MN: So let’s read the stuff that has previously been put out there. The idea of personhood is addressed as well several other issues. Go back and read. But before you take up too much time, what is your basis for limiting personhood to humans? Angels are spirits. But surely you wouldn’t say they are not persons. Satan is a spirit. Surely you are not saying he is not a person. When a person goes to be with Christ at death and he sheds his body, does he cease to be a person? Of course, these and other questions were already discussed if you would just read the posting and the comments. )
I didn’t see where you took personhood from God and from the Holy Ghost. But I will go and look.
(MN: Critical set of questions at this point. Does God love? Does God get angry? Does God have a relationship with anyone? Can God be grieved? What are the characteristics of a person and what is God missing that he is not a person?)
My basis is the fact that you and your trinitarians say that God and the Holy Ghost are persons. The scriptures never say that so how did you conclude that?
ANGELS ARE NOT PERSONS! I just said it. Show me a scripture that says otherwise.
SATAN IS NOT A PERSON! Show me a scripture that says otherwise.
This is about your soul, not about your flesh! So the battle is in the spirit realm.
If you choose to serve God and allow him to dwell in your temple, then you will do the work of GOD.
If you choose to allow the devil to dwell in you, then you will do the work of the devil.
We are the battleground for the fight (OUR FLESH, OUR VESSEL). The fight is for what is inside of us. Once we are dead, our spirits await the return of Christ. We become nothing until Christs return.
In the human mind or memory, we still hold the dead as people. But again, no where does the scriptures speak to them being a person any longer in the grave.
You mention quite a bit about taking too much time. I apologize as I didn’t read the rules about your site and what it was setup for.
I will not waste any of your valuable time. But before I go, would you provide any video or references of pimping by your trinitarian, or protestant, catholic brothers or sisters and the like (because as I understand it, y’all are all related).
Y’all enjoy your site. It’s been a pleasure. If someone knows of a site where we can actually discuss the issues about all preachers, let a brother know.
This seems to be a one-sided affair and those who oppose are wasting time!
Sounds real good bro, real fresh! I like the idea. But, I am not as versed as you all as my writings indicate. But I hear John 10:30 being shot down all the time. It is explained away. Just note: you folks here nor will anyone on this planet come close to understanding a majority of these scriptures. This is because the devil has polluted minds with his knowledge and his understanding of everything, every subject. I mean everything!
If you read through this site it sounds as if most people have it all figured out. If that’s the case, tell me about some healings you have done lately? What have you done for charity? What are the fruits of your spirit? Do you speak in tongues? Cast out any devils lately?
In closing, what you should try is to win people over if you truly believe in the God you serve and that he is faithful. You have many, in your estimation, individuals who come to your site with false doctrines, yet you enjoy standing on your soapbox with your doctrine and you don’t spend the time witnessing to them.
Don’t you think on some level that if what you have found to be truth is true and the God you serve is that powerful that he would give you what to say to those who are lost? That through your prayers and supplication and staying in the word and fasting that God would send a word through you that would change lives. That he would provide you with what to say when the oneness weenies come knocking. Yeah, I think he would. Because the folks who come here may start off wanting to confront you about your beliefs, but, you shut em’ down homie! You shut em’ down. That lends to them going their way still confused and baffled about the scriptures. Until they run into me!!!
Jesus saves! I would like to welcome all of you to my church in Los Angeles, CA.
529 E Washington Blvd Los Angeles, CA 90015
Sundays at 2pm and Bible study at 7pm on Wednesdays.
You can delete my rantings. And again, if I have wasted your bandwidth, I apologize.
God is limitless, and what he is or has or is made of, no man can verbalize or understand.
(MH: Then how do you know He’s a “he” and not a she or an it? )
Well, if we’re going to get the absolute tripe you’ve spouted here…………we’ll pass.
Are you raising the dead at your church too??? Seen any severed limbs grow back?? Walking on water too??
Please bro……you’re ridiculous. Tne Oneness folks who come here leave because they can’t defend their doctrine. Why don’t YOU give it a shot??
The postings are here already…………..the discussions are there. Post them with your replies.
As for John 10:30, the way you get into the type of error you are involved in is precisely by isolating a Scripture this way without considering the context with the rest of Scripture.
So……….WHO was Jesus praying to in Gethsemane?? Who spoke from Heaven at His baptism?? Who descended upon Him in the form of a dove?? Who spoke again from Heaven and said “This is my beloved Son. Hear ye Him.”??
Was Jesus a deceiver?? He plainly said it was the Father, not Him. He said HE was going to send us another Comforter, right in the same book of John that you just cited.
Jhn 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
Now……..who was Jesus planning on praying to?? Himself?? He plainly said the Father. But you say there really ISN’T a Father, it’s all Jesus. So…………Jesus is a liar. He just LIED to the disciples.
Then He says that HE will send ANOTHER Comforter.
Another…….
allos {al’-los}
TDNT Reference Root Word
TDNT - 1:264,43 a primary word
Part of Speech
adj
Outline of Biblical Usage
1) another, OTHER beside
Do you know what “another” means?? If I put an orange on the table, and you ask me for ANOTHER, do I give you the SAME orange, or a different orange of the same kind alongside the first one??
If Jesus promised ANOTHER (other beside) beside Himself to come, when it is REALLY Him all along……….. not leaving, but staying……… again you make Him a LIAR.
Do you openly teach that Jesus is a liar in your “church”, or are your sheeple just so braindead that they can’t follow the nonsense you teach to its logical conclusion??
Gary, I suspect whatever you say isn’t going to make any difference. Mr. Morning says, straight up, that God is not a person and the Holy Spirit is not a person. I suspect they are either artiichokes or persimmons, but not persons.
Mr. Morning appears to be about as far as you can get into the Oneness schtick. Bottom line - don’t expect an answer that makes any sense. He has yet to provide a definition of person. Notice from what he says, only those who have flesh and blood are persons.
This of course brings up the issue of Jesus. Was Jesus not a person before he took on flesh? Did he EXIST before he took on flesh?
What’s that Melvin?? The Father isn’t a person?? Is that what Mr Morning said??
Hbr 1:1 ¶ God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
Hbr 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by [his] Son, whom he (the Father) hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he (the Father) made the worlds;
Hbr 1:3 Who (Jesus) being the brightness of [his](The Father’s) glory, and the express image of his (The Father’s) PERSON
UH OH, Mr Morning!! That’s what you get for seeking to rely solely upon the Spirit to understand doctrine, when the Spirit Himself has commanded us to rely upon the Word (which He inspired for OUR benefit) AND the Spirit together.
, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
Uh Oh, again Mr Morning!!! Jesus sat down on the Right Hand of a non-existent Father??
Act 2:33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, (OOPS again………Father Son and Holy Ghost)he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
Act 2:34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand.
Apparently, Jesus is sitting on His own right hand, is that it Mr Morning??
I wonder if His hand ever falls asleep after sitting on it for nearly 2000 years??
Either Jesus is a liar, the Word is not inspired, or you are deceived, Mr Morning.
I know which way I’m leaning.
I await your grand defense. Hopefully you will do better than your predecessors.
GARYV: My son, you just jumped into, sat down, and got rooted in the middle of my FAVORITE Scripture! You further said, “….when the Spirit Himself has commanded us to rely upon the Word (which He inspired for OUR benefit) AND the Spirit together.”
I will e-mail you when I return from the “Big Apple” after Christmas. Remember when you posted a couple of months ago (?), saying that every jot and tittle and even the placement of words in the Bible are significant? Well, I need to share/compare Scripture w/you that is g-r-a-n-d and
g-l-o-r-i-o-u-s-l-y in line with your post above. Here is a Psalm for you, MN, Grid, G2, Eucatastrophe, and all the God-fearing men and women of the Lord Jesus Christ:
Psalm 119:161 & 162—Princes have persecuted me without a cause; BUT MY HEART STANDETH IN AWE OF THY WORD. (162) I REJOICE AT THY WORD, AS ONE THAT FINDETH GREAT SPOIL.” I love you Brothers and Sisters, Beryle
Love back atcha BTP…….
1 Timothy, chapter 6
“1″: Let as many servants as are under the yoke count their own masters worthy of all honour, that the name of God and his doctrine be not blasphemed.
“2″: And they that have believing masters, let them not despise them, because they are brethren; but rather do them service, because they are faithful and beloved, partakers of the benefit. These things teach and exhort.
“3″: If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;
“4″: He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings,
“5″: Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.
“6″: But godliness with contentment is great gain.
“7″: For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out.
“8″: And having food and raiment let us be therewith content.
“9″: But they that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men in destruction and perdition.
“10″: For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.
“11″: But thou, O man of God, flee these things; and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness.
“12″: Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses.
“13″: I give thee charge in the sight of God, who quickeneth all things, and before Christ Jesus, who before Pontius Pilate witnessed a good confession;
“14″: That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ:
“15″: Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;
“16″: Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.
“17″: Charge them that are rich in this world, that they be not highminded, nor trust in uncertain riches, but in the living God, who giveth us richly all things to enjoy;
“18″: That they do good, that they be rich in good works, ready to distribute, willing to communicate;
“19″: Laying up in store for themselves a good foundation against the time to come, that they may lay hold on eternal life.
“20″: O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called:
“21″: Which some professing have erred concerning the faith. Grace be with thee. Amen.
(MN: Yeah. And? )
(MN: Ladies and gentlemen, I need you to do something for me. Daryl is a very pleasant fellow, nothing like Antoine the Ranter. But I want you to look at this posting and see if you think it is addresses GaryV’s [aka Riki-Tiki-Tavi] first repsonse to him. I say he has simply repeated himself and provided absolutely no response to the statements made by Riki-Tiki. In essence, his only argument is “Trinity doesn’t appear in the Bible.” As benevolent dictator, I sometimes outsource my privileges. And in this case, I asking you if you think he should be disinvited from this particular discussion. So what’s you take?)
Good morning. Glad, so very glad you all haven’t blown me off and invited me to respond. I’m excited about that! I see you guys are good at running brothers up out of here. I’m a little different; I know that I am right and therefore, I might not help everybody, but there might be somebody out there who can be saved from this false doctrine.
With that being said, I will be here debating with you brothers for a minute. That is until I get asked to leave. I plan on helping convert this site into a site of truth and not just ONE-sidedness.
You see thing about oneness is that it IS mentioned in the Bible. Whereas, trinity is NEVER mentioned. So if I am of oneness, I am not left to figure out or manipulate the word or try to find out what words mean way back when to convince people I am right.
The Word (GOD) is true and God reveals himself to us. In fact, he reveals himself to all who seek him with an open mind and heart. Give it a try and let go of your spoon-fed religions given to you by your mothers and fathers.
I was brought up in oneness. But I grew up wanting to really know the word for myself. I spent years taking scripture apart and “dictionarying” the words. Stepping away from what I was taught as a young child. In fact, I wasn’t really taught. I just listened to the brother preach and began to receive the word of God for what it was.
But as I stepped away from my tradition, the one word I ALWAYS found in the scriptures was the word one as pertaining to God, Jesus and the Holy Ghost. I never ever found the word trinity. I didn’t find it associated with any doctrine or gospel or relationship.
What I found was that the power of God is incredible. God created all things. With that being said, who are we to change God’s word? You say to use just the scriptures right? Well, let’s do it. Show me where doctrine and the word trinity are used together. Show me where gospel and trinity are used. She me where God, Jesus and the Holy Ghost were referred to as a trinity or three.
Has anyone ever seen them together? Did Jesus tell the world that I and my father are one?
You see, I think that most of you, like most people in the world, were exposed to a certain belief system as children. That system worked for you, so you found everything you possibly could to support your belief. Simply because it’s easier to continue to believe a lie than it is to step away and learn the truth. It allows you could hide behind certain scriptures and throw the relationship thing in everybody’s face. But the devil is a liar my friend. And I can point to you where God, Jesus and the Holy Ghost are one! You CANNOT show me where anyone in the scripture have ever said “and by the power of the holy trinity”, or by the power of the “three”, or whatever, you can’t do it. The devil can’t do it because he is a liar and the FATHER of all false doctrine.
The Father is not a person! God is the Father of Jesus and the Father and creator of us all. We are in his likeness. Has a man ever seen God? If so, what was the description they provided? Did they say that it was a man who looked just like you and me? A woman? A light? What was the description of God?
Comma Johanneum
Jesus is God in person! Jesus was made flesh for OUR sake - a person.
The heart of this matter of trinity and oneness is simple; like the devil, false doctrines seek to reduce God’s power to something very understandable. Such as how he could create Jesus to come here and save you and I, and to teach how to live saved. That would include teaching us how to pray, whom to pray to, how to teach and preach, how to do God’s will, etc… In order for God to teach us, then Jesus would have to do what God would have US do!!! That’s pray to him, worship him, be devoted to him. His express image came here to teach us. When Jesus prayed to the father, it wasn’t for his deliverance or forgiveness or repentance, it was for OURS!!! It was the same as him dying on the cross. It wasn’t for him, it was for us, our sins, by God’s grace he allowed himself to come here and be with us through Jesus, and then the Holy Ghost. ALL ONE!
God is so good. God is so incredible. It’s scary to think that people in these last days can neglect the very power of the almighty God. That this trinity belief system is still attracting folks. The devil is a liar.
I love the jokes also. You guys are funny!!!
I know what another means. But let me ask you if you know what God meant by another? Another form of himself? Another lesson being that Jesus and the Holy Ghost came here to teach? What did GOD mean by another?
I’ve seen God do miracles bro. And I think you are ridiculous as well GaryV :0)
And I don’t seriously think you folks can defend any trinitarian doctrine simply on the basis that it is NOT mentioned in the scriptures. It is created and made up by money grubbers just as the folks you folks highlight on this wonderful website. Church is a business. Do the churches you all go to raise offerings? I mean, is that actually a part of your service or do people just give freely as the spirit moves them and as the scriptures have taught them?
I am not able to defend a doctrine or religion or otherwise. It is God who does that brother. I am just a vessel, a temple that he will use to usher in the truth to brothers and sisters who need deliverance from a handed down, man created belief. I shouldn’t even call it a religion or doctrine being that it’s not even mentioned in the scriptures. Whereas, the oneness of God, hence the oneness doctrine is so mentioned very clearly and boldly. Praise the Lord!!!
So again, I invite you brothers and sisters to witness to me, to pray that the Lord sends truth and wisdom to me if I am misdirected. Because I am praying the same for each of you. At the end of the day, that’s what it’s all about. If we are saved, we need to be reaching in and pulling lost souls out. I pray that we find truth in our conversations and we are able to pull those who are seeking truth out of the world and into God’s marvelous light.
I pray your strength in the Lord as you will pray mine. This is nothing personal with any of you. I am a babe in Christ and I am seeking God’s truth. Where I am wrong, he will direct my path because I trust him. I trust that we are all here talking for a reason.
So let’s not make it the last time. Much respect to each of you for your dedication to the word. It is to be commended if not corrected and me likewise if we are headed down the wrong paths.
I look forward to hearing from you all!
Darryl L Morning, Sr
cmptrwhiz@hotmail.com
I cannot disagree with you on the use of the word trinity, I’ve looked for it but can’t find it either but the bible does clearly define the nature of God. In Gen 1 clearly the nature of God is revealed in Gen 1:2 we read that God’s Spirit moved upon the face of the water. In verse 3 the nature
of God is again revealed, the unity of God is clear. In verse 1:26 again the nature
of the “ONEness or unity” is further revealed by the statement “Let us make man in our image, after our likeness:” this statement is undeniable. The statement in 1:26 is even clearer in the first chapter of the gospel of John again Gods Oneness is revealed as the Holy Spirit gives us a clearer picture of the Oneness of God, we now see clearer the Godhead, as you continue to mine the word the nature of the Godhead ( God the father, the Word, Holy Spirit) Revealed. Continue to mine.
Mr Morning……….please re-post my comments with your refutation. Thus far, you haven’t answered any of the salient points.
hi darryl,
you said-
{She me where God, Jesus and the Holy Ghost were referred to as a trinity or three.}
1 John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
Noel Jones as smart as he is, how can he deny that scripture? 1John 5:7
One more thing; you compare men and the power of God in which there is no comparison. This is why there will be mysteries in the Bible! We have a very limited understanding about EVERYTHING. I have read about half of the posting and have found as I have found over the last couple of weeks in speaking with numerous trinitarians, lots of explaining. You don’t explain scripture, it is a revelation from God and God only.
Really?!?! Scripture cannot be explained, huh. Fascinating.
I do agree in part………..the way YOU abuse Scripture cannot be explained. But perhaps you can explain this……..
2Ti 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
Or this…….
Act 17:10 ¶ And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea: who coming [thither] went into the synagogue of the Jews.
Act 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.
WHAT?!?!? They didn’t just rely on the Spirit, but dug into the SCRIPTURES (studied) to check for Truth??? Well………they’d never make it in YOUR church, huh??
Act 17:12 Therefore many of them believed;
Hmmmmmmmm………they believed as a result of STUDY. Searching the Scripture. Imagine that.
1Ti 5:17 Let the elders that rule well be counted worthy of double honour, especially they who labour in the word and doctrine.
Doctrine…….
didache {did-akh-ay’}
TDNT Reference Root Word
TDNT - 2:163,161 from 1321
Part of Speech
n f
Outline of Biblical Usage
1) teaching
a) that which is taught
b) doctrine, teaching, concerning something
2) the act of teaching, instruction
a) in religious assemblies of the Christians, to speak in the way of teaching, in distinction from other modes of speaking in public
WHAT??!? STUDY the Word?? Why would one study the Word if it’s inexplicable??
Why would STUDY be the method the Bible demands to “rightly divide” the Word?? I thought you just got it from the Spirit (Who’s really Jesus…….and the Father. Or neither Jesus NOR the Father. I’m still working all that out without Jesus being a liar for saying there WAS a Holy Spirit and Father apart from Him when you say there AREN’T).
Why would Paul say that those who LABOR IN THE WORD AND DOCTRINE (teaching) are worthy of DOUBLE HONOR??
There’s no NEED to study and teach doctrine………right?? Just let the spirit moooooooove ya.
Now, to be balanced, unless you HAVE the Spirit, studying Scripture is useless because it’s spiritually discerned. BUT……..Paul is talking to Spirit filled people here, and he wants them to STUDY the WORD. You know…………the WORD the Spirit inspired in the first place.
So that’s the answer, isn’t it. Not just relying on the Word without the Spirit……….nor the Spirit without the Word.
And the TRUE Church says, “AMEN!”
http://www.creeds.net/ancient/Quicumque.html
http://www.creeds.net/ancient/apostles.htm
http://www.creeds.net/ancient/nicene.htm
http://ic.net/~erasmus/RAZ101.HTM
Sorry for the many links, but browse through them whenever you have the time. The 4th being the most interesting.
Interesting points/proofs Gary V! This has probably been one of the most thought provoking posts I have seen thus far! I’d be interested in seeing a response to the last post by Gary V from Mr Morning. Please respond if you are still out there! Thanks.
I would like to try and answer some of your questions on the trinity. First thing is that the Bible does not support the Trinity there are two in the God head family. God the father and Jesus the son, there is no God the holy spirit. But the Roman Catholic Church has given you this false doctrine. The Holy Spirit or the Holy Ghost is no more than the angel that the Lord told us that He would send once He goes back to the father. The Holy Spirit only teaches you what the Lord tells him to say. Jn 14th- 15-18vs. 25,26. So when you hear people talk about the Trinity, tell them to show you in the Bible where the trinity is show you it in the Bible once they can not do that all conversation will be shut down after that. I thank you for your time…
Question.
If there are two in the Godhead…then why did Jesus say to pray in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost? (Matt 28:19)
For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one. I John 5:7. I think this explains it all. I don’t care who trys to work around this. There is no room for debate Ahminitu. You guys that try to make the scriptures fit your agenda is a trip. Maybe you are trying to infiltrate us like your pulpit pimp mentors.
By the way Gridiron I would just like to help you out. Jesus said to Baptize “in” the Name of the Father, The Son, and the Holy Ghost. But I did know where you were going.
My bad…typo. Thanks. Meant baptize..not pray. Good lookin’ out ce
Well Grid…………God didn’t REALLY mean that. He was just trying to help the Holy Ghost’s poor self esteem issues (with Him not being an equal part of the Godhead and all…….) by including Him with the Father and Son.
You’ll see this very clearly in that new Bible translation………..
“The Silly Putty Bible”…………Scripture designed to be molded, stretched, and conformed to whatever wackiness the reader prefers. LOL!!!!!
another things that really bugs me is people praying for a fresh annointing or a new annointing…..THE ANNOINTING NEVER FADES!!!!!!!!! and one more thing THERE ARE MANY GIFTS BUT ONE ANNOINTING! I hear people say u got the healing annointing or the favor annointing or the dum sheep annointing! I mean come on!
:lol:….”dum sheep annointing”…..lol….yeah…I heard a popular musician say while introducing a song…..”I knew there was an unusual annointing on this song”…..Unusual Annointing? Huh?!
Byron Cage, you mean (”There is a Name”, from His recording at New Birth)?
I think that this is the song you were talking about. By the way, has anyone ever wondered why at the intro of the cd he is addressed as “The Prince of Praise and Worship”?
I love it when they say “When praises go up, blessings come down.” That’s soooo spiritual (insert sarcasm). There are several Pastors that teach this almost every Sunday.
I wonder if money falls out of their pockets when they are shouting??
Then there is a legal question….If the money falls on the floor, does it belong to the church or the person who danced like David?
Is it because they are associating the “blessing” with something tangible (i.e. money) that poses the “issue” with the song?
Most definately, Mrs.Tweet…
Moreover, it seems that the blessing are often limited to tangible things, or that blessings are being called down with no regard to whether or not one has been seeking to properly bless the Lord and to be about spreading the Good News of the Kingdom of God…..the main thing that Jesus said we should be focused since all blessings would flow to/from doing so(Matthew 6:36)
To an extent, it’s Kinda like the old saying goes, “When you’re about Gods’ buisness, He takes care of yours”
Just a thought…..What are yours?
Ummmm…my thoughts…
I have just been dealing with what we, as Christians, mean by “blessings.” Far too many people, in my opinion, tie blessings to something tangible (house, money, car, and the like). I see many people strongly believing in reciprocity…Like if I praise God, I will get…
Why can’t the blessing simply be that you are able to praise God? Maybe it’s just me…but anytime that I am in communion with God is a blessing far greater than some car (that by the way starts depreciating as soon as you drive it off the lot
)