Would you like to hear pure distilled Christo-babble? As a treat, I’ve provided in one spot the entire “Juanita Makes Rambling and Generic Prophecies About 2006″ for your entertainment. They are displayed in order.
Each segment is about ten minutes long. To save you some time, I recommend you go to segment number 2. By this segment she has figured out that the people in the audience are dumb enough to accept whatever she says, and she does come out with some doozies.
It’s in the second one that we discover people will be preaching under a “mantle of manifestation” and under the “mantle of Quantum Leap.” I think that one is the mantle Scott Bakula got in order to dress up like a woman every once in a while as he gets bounced around in time.
We even find out that this (2006) is the year of the believer. Hmm. I wonder if the saints in China, Indonesia, Saudi Arabia, and Sudan know that this is the year of the believer.
Juanita gives out a string of “prophecies” loaded with generalities, subjectivism, and bad doctrine. It’s as though she knows full well the foolish women and neutered men in the audience haven’t cracked their bibles. At one point she talks about her “threshing Floor” scam that she has going on. In the discussion in Number 3 (around 3:00 of part 3) she says:
1. That Ruth wasn’t going for herself.
2. Before she went she had divine instructions
I took the liberty of checking the book of Ruth, compared it to what she said, and discovered the following:
Ruth wasn’t going for herself.
1 Then Naomi her mother-in-law said to her, “My daughter, shall I not seek security for you, that it may be well with you?
13 “Remain this night, and when morning comes, if he will redeem you, good; let him redeem you. But if he does not wish to redeem you, then I will redeem you, as the LORD lives. Lie down until morning.”
14 So she lay at his feet until morning and rose before one could recognize another; and he said, “Let it not be known that the woman came to the threshing floor.”
She was definitely going for herself. One premise for the Threshing Floor scam is blown out the window.
Before she went, she had divine instructions.
3 “Wash yourself therefore, and anoint yourself and put on your best clothes, and go down to the threshing floor; but do not make yourself known to the man until he has finished eating and drinking.
Ruth’s mother-in-law gave her the instructions, not God. Uh-oh. Looks like the other leg of the Threshing Floor scam has been shot to pieces. And all I had to do was actually read the Bible!
Juanita Bynum-Weeks is a fraud who depends on your ignorance to make a buck. Worse than that, she is selling a lie to women who have been hurt in life and are trusting her to give them answers. Sure, they should know their word. But they don’t. Do you get upset with the child because she doesn’t know to stay away from the molester?
Try as I might, I can’t see this woman, and the men who promote her, as being much different than the con artists who scam old ladies out of their pension. No. I take that back. She is different than them. She’s more like the pimpette who convinces the lonely and scared young girl that she needs to sell herself and give the money to the only person who really cares about her , the pimpette.
Here, listen for yourself. But be prepared. Some times you won’t know whether to laugh or cry when you see just how heartless this woman really is.
Part 1
Part 2
Part 3
Part 4
And Calvin comes through again.
Melvin, I don’t know why you would not let me post on the suject “what I have learned in the WOF”. I will try to post this excerpt as Ms Bynum’s prophecies reminded me of something.
“*Every year, usually at the New Year’s eve service you know a lot of prophecies will come forth and will go something like this. “This is the year that God is gonna release a supernatural outpouring of His Spirit and the saints are gonna take back what the devil stole from them.(Now I never knew that Satan stole anything from me). There are gonna be businesses starting, finances are coming and this year the wealth of the wicked will be released to the saints(I actually heard something similar to this once). Those of you who have been bound will be set free…..” and you know the rest”
Oh yeah and an occasional :this is the year of the saints”
Are you telling me you have never received an answer from God thru a person? Or instructions thru a person that was actually being used by God?
if ms bynum is a true prophet of God,she would also tell American to repent of all the sins that are happen in the nation.She would tell the Church to repent of all the wrong doing that is going on in the churches.Ms bynum will tell all the pastors that doing wrong to repent and change their way before the warth of God come upon them. if she was a true prophet of God she was corrected tbn on what they are doing.have you every hear Ms bynum tell the nation , church or people to repent of their sins,that what a true prophet of God would do,
I enjoy reading your blog, but I have to take you in strides.
One thing I notice is that when u comment on Bynum, it appears that you don’t recogize revelation. Yes, when you hear it from a critical spirit it is easy to denounce what she or any of these preachers say, but if you have read your Bible (and it seems as though you have), then you should have some level of discernment and revelation.
(MN: No, you don’t get revelation - fresh or otherwise. The Holy Spririt helps you to understand what He has already provided. Revelation is what gave us the Bible to begin with. It is the revealed mind of God The Holy Spirit is our helper in understanding the Word. Going with what you said, and your general support for her, I assume you are a woman. So tell me, when your husband tells you to wash the dishes, is that a revelation from God? )
If I listened to her on the base level, I would be confused, but because I know truth I can hear what she’s saying. Now, I don’t agree with everything she has said before, but she’s human and she is capable of mixing her own ideas into the pot, but do you not do that yourself? (But how can you not agree with “revelation”? If it’s from God, it must be true. You have to agree with it or risk being disobedient to God.)
One thing that is unfortunate is that the majority of saints don’t read/study their Bible to discern when a preacher is off, and then just take them at their word. That’s scary. (Yeah, like that studio full of decieved women and clueless men.)
At any rate, believe me, if you go around with a critical spirit the devil will give you something to find. No one ministering the Gospel is perfect and I don’t expect anyone of them to preach it perfectly and always on point. Even the ones I love to hear preach the most (black and white), they all have said things that made my antenna go up. (Critical spirit. You mean like comparing what she says to what the Bible says? SOrry, but the revelation of the Bible says that is exactly what we are supposed to do. And when do the comparison, I discover that she is not ministering the Gospel [whatever that phrase means] )
hi jd, prophets are never supposed to be wrong. they’re supposed to hit the bulls-eye 100% of the time. and no, they cannot take license and “mix their own ideas into the pot” . i would give you the Scriptures, but i’d rather you look it up.
Oh yeah, and the idea of “divine instructions..?” Let me ask you, have u ever received instructions from someone and it was the answer you have prayed to God about? God does speak through people, ya know. To them they may not know that God is using them in that capacity, but to you it was the answer you were looking for and had prayed for. Come on, man.
Are their prophets today? If so what would their purpose be, and would their
Prophecies carry the same authority as the bible? if so is the bible incomplete?
hi michael samuels, very good point, and worthy of consideration by those who believe that God uses prophets today.
may this will help:propheteuo {prof-ate-yoo’-o}
) to prophesy, to be a prophet, speak forth by divine inspirations, to predict
a) to prophesy
b) with the idea of foretelling future events pertaining esp. to the kingdom of God
c) to utter forth, declare, a thing which can only be known by divine revelation
d) to break forth under sudden impulse in lofty discourse or praise of the divine counsels
1) under like prompting, to teach, refute, reprove, admonish, comfort others
e) to act as a prophet, discharge the prophetic office
Rev 19:10And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See [thou do it] not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.
more:propheteia {prof-ay-ti’-ah}
1) prophecy
a) a discourse emanating from divine inspiration and declaring the purposes of God, whether by reproving and admonishing the wicked, or comforting the afflicted, or revealing things hidden; esp. by foretelling future events
b) Used in the NT of the utterance of OT prophets
1) of the prediction of events relating to Christ’s kingdom and its speedy triumph, together with the consolations and admonitions pertaining to it, the spirit of prophecy, the divine mind, to which the prophetic faculty is due
2) of the endowment and speech of the Christian teachers called prophets
3) the gifts and utterances of these prophets, esp. of the predictions of the works of which, set apart to teach the gospel, will accomplish for the kingdom of Christ
please take note of the use in the NT
I say: If you’re going to do it, go all the way. Try this. You can even print it out and staple it to the back of your Bible.
You need to repent from your sins of idolatry and lust of the flesh, eyes, brain etc.
You nailed me brother………….I gots da “brain lust”.
It’s obvious you aren’t subject to that particular lust. It seems you have completely banished the brain from your life.
Congratulations…….
brain lust? what, praytell, is brain lust-sounds gross.
HUH?
In part 1, at about 04:10, she says” when the transision takes place there’s gonna be legitimate, tongue talking Christians that are going to be in very powerful positions”.
I don’t necessarily have a problem with tongues per se, but again she is making it sound like it is some kind of proof of one’s legitimacy as a Christian. Is that what it is?
p.s. (Melvin, I sent you a mail on Friday about tongues and osas; I’m still waiting for your reply)
(MN: I haven’t forgotten. I’m peddling as fast as I can. )
Woo hoo! I can “prophesy” like Juanita: “The Lord is getting ready to transition us into the time of revelatory transformation and there will be a recognition of the saints moving into their divine destiny and a shift that will open up the doors of favor in government and the prophetic timetable of reformation and reconciliation and the coming into of our spiritual inheritance … what’s that Lord? Dang, the Lord is telling me that he will cause his chosen apostle Bishop Doctor Thomas Wesley Weeks III, my illustrious husband, to return to his former spouse and the child which she bore to him.”
nah, how about a real prophesy straight from the devil…opps!! *cough, cough”… i mean, THE LORD!!
http://interactive.creflodollarministries.org/bible/20060908.asp
“For these days have been prepared and called into being. They are on My plan,” saith the Lord. “And in every generation I have appointed a carpenter. And yea, today I call you as carpenters into this time. For these are the days where I’m about to do a great turnaround, so don’t be deceived by what you see with your eyes and hear with your ears. For I’m about to do a turnaround, and in this I will cause My anointing to rest upon you.”
“Men of this world will see you in your prosperity. I will give you double for your trouble and I will cause increase to be an everyday affair with you who will walk faithfully with Me. For I have not forgotten My Word and neither have I become blind to My plan. For I will cause My manifestations to rise up out of you out of your house and even out of your children. And those that will see you in your prosperity will have to finally admit that the blessing is upon your life.”
“For I have said, even from early days that all families of the earth shall be blessed. Now prepare yourself for the blessing is upon you, but I’m now about to cause fruit from that blessing to come on you and it shall be seen. Prepare yourself to walk in high places. Prepare yourself to dwell in wealthy places. Prepare yourself to ride prosperously. For I am about to do My finest work with you and I’m about to show out through you. When men look at you they will have to say, ‘Those are the ones who’ve been blessed by God.’”
“Now when you hear this, you’ll say, ‘This is the Lord’s doing and it’s marvelous in our eyes. For Christ is upon me and He has blessed me and He has empowered me. All that I have belongs to Him. And I freely give Him all those things.”
“Rejoice,” saith the Spirit of God. “Your hour is among you.”
“Rejoice,” saith the Spirit of the Lord, “For those things that I have promised unto you shall come unto you and your family. And your children shall walk in it. So be glad and don’t stay in a mental, oppressed state. Come on out. It’s party time in the Kingdom,” saith the Spirit of the Lord.
I declare the great turnaround has begun!”
–Prophecy delivered by
Dr. Creflo A. Dollar
Finance Convention
September 8, 2006
World Changers Church - New York
No you di’ent!
RAOTHLOL!!!!!!
Oops!
That would be too much like the Will of God…. No dying to self and taking up your cross doing that!
ROFLMBO!!!!!!!!
For someone exposed to the public as long as she has been “in the limelight,” it seems that by now “hobnobbing” with certain peers would have helped her grasp the fundamentals of her native language. It’s rather embarrassing to hear the subject/verb disagreement that pours from her tongue. Coupled with the emptiness of her generalities of “what God was saying to her for 2006″ (question posed by Pastor Richard Hogue), makes for pretty mundane rhetoric that makes even a carnal Christian ask, “Huh?”
Are there any psychologists out there who can confirm something I heard while viewing “Criminal Minds,” a TV show: During therapy or interrogation, one of the indications that a person is lying is the direction in which they look (while occasionally glancing briefly at the person to whom they are speaking). The person is making up the lie as they go, and habitually look to their left in the process. If they are telling the truth, they habitually look to their right as if trying to accurately recall the facts. Is this true? Ms. Bynum-Weaks constantly looked down and to her left when she was not looking directly at Pastor Hogue. So, is there any validity to this bit of info? Just wondering. B
But didn’t you notice how the women in the audience were jumping around? One lady even lost her hat and an earring. They were eating that stuff up!
To Melvin: The hats and earring were trying to get out of the way of the fiery (lying) darts inside this woman’s eargates and brain matter. The others were jumping around due to those same darts affecting other parts of their anatomy.
I thought I was the only one who noticed Juanita Bynum looking down every other paragraph. I thought she was looking at a cue card or whatever “soap opera” actors and actresses look at to remember their lines. Hey that’s it…Juanita is the star of the Young and the Restless!! Her followers have to be young and restless to fall for her shanigans.
All I have to say is…Repent, Repent, and Repent some more!!
Friend of God
I think she stars in “The Pimped And The Clueless”.
I agree
Melvin, why haven’t you done anything on Bishop Weeks? Check out his Website: http://www.bishopweeks.com/. You can become a “V.I.P.” by pledging up to $1 million per month.
This guy is killin’ me with the pen on his site at the bottom of the partner status levels, and his quote of the week.
Quote of the week: “Every time you open up your spirit and bless God, you automatically put your enemy under your feet.”
Interesting quote. Think about it. One word in this phrase thrives on escalating the emotion of the people taking it to another level. “Your enemy”. Not “THE enemy”. We only have one enemy. The Bible says “For we wrestle not against flesh and blood….” (Eph 6:12) ….so obviously the word “YOUR” with regard to SO many different individuals can take on ANY form in this type of venue.
*Your (defined): of or relating to you or yourself or yourselves especially as possessor or possessors*
Since we know that the devil is the accuser of the brethren (Rev 12:10)…we know him as ONE entity. And the true enemy of God. The true saints of God are fighting against THE enemy, not YOUR enemy.
The word THE is generally used to indicated a noun. The noun here being enemy. But that doesn’t apply here because we need to make these people feel all warm and fuzzy, and indicate that this applies to them. So we will personalize it. Take out The Enemy (emphasis off of the devil and his works), and replace it with Your Enemy (focus…you and how people are attempting to harm you). Sounds great…lets do it.
So really…he is not preaching the Bible….he is preaching to the emotions of the individual with the use of ONE word.
Crazy.
I just want to make clear my stance on the “prosperity gospel”. I am taking a neutral stance on this type of teaching. The reason I am taking a neutral stance is because I need to learn more about this teaching as well as pray, and read my Bible for myself. I like listening to Juanita Bynum however I had a real problem with her and her husband’s series “Teach Me How to Love You”. Mind you Mr. and Mrs. Weeks had not been married long before they created this series. They were basically newlyweds and I think way too unexperienced to tell someone else how to have a happy successful marriage. And I think this is Mr. Week’s second marriage.
Yes, it’s a second marriage for both of them. Most people aren’t aware of Juanita’s first marriage–although there was no child involved. TWWIII’s first marriage ended shortly after he met JB, and he has a teen-aged daughter.
This WOF teaching, is the most dangerous of doctrines that has crept in unnoticed into the body of Messiah.
A prophet of G-d must be correct 100% of the time or else this person is not a prophet. Besides that, the L-rd Yeshua Himself has taught that us in His Word that there is no new revelation - “all the prophets have prophesied until John” (Mt 11:13) and the Apostle Paul teaches that one is not to beyond what is written (1 Cor 4:6).
In His Word the L-rd G-d had said that He would allow these false prophets to flourish as a way of testing us to see if we love Him or not (Deut 13). However, many have followed their own lusts and fallen into the deception of these false prophets.
If this was to be the “Year of the Believer,” I hope Ms. Bynum-Weeks can express this “Year” or “Better Plan” to the family of Christian Lebanese Cabinet minister Pierre Gemayel who was assasinated because of his belief in Messiah.
Maybe she meant that was his year, along with all the other 250,000 believers throughout the world who are killed for their faith to die for their belief in Messiah. My guess is, this not what she meant.
My advice to Ms. Bynum-Weeks and those who follow this WOF doctrine. Put your faith in the Messiah of the Bible and not in the false messiah of greed and prosperity that has crept in unnoticed.
“But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will also be false teachers among you, who will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing swift destruction upon themselves” (2 Pt 2:1).
Shalom in Yeshua.
Juanita seems to be double-minded and unstable. Some of what she says is truth but there is hidden agenda to her messages. Her success and wealth is coming from others rather than her own labor.
She is deceitful and I pray that she will listen to God rather than her flesh and know that He is not pleased with what she is doing and that she better repent and turn from her wicked ways or else!
Friend of God
Thanks, that’s what I heard, it’s just enough right that if you listen casually, you think she is at the right ballpark, but she watching the Bowie Bay Sox when you focus in.
I checked out Bishop Weeks’ site and saw where they have a “Next Level Living Mass”….. Mass? Did the Weeks-es slip and go Catholic? What denomination do they claim to be? Can somebody school me please?
(MN: Weeks associates with the Pentecostal Assemblies of the World, a Oneness organization. Surprised? You should be since he never, ever talks about it. )
Dear Melvin & Community:
I have just returned from a refreshing trip to NYC. When I returned, I saw some of these clips of Ms. Bynum. As I listened to her “ramblings” in the name of a “Revelation” from God, it reminded me of something in my ministry.
When I became the Senior Pastor of our Congregation nearly 12 years ago, I had a few ungodly people who managed the church’s finances. Shortly after arriving to this assignment, I began to notice that whenever we got a copy of the finacial report it was very difficult to read and understand.
When I questioned why that was the case, I was told to just go along with the program. Long story short, I discovered through “revelation” that the report was given in that manner deliberately in order that the people might be confused and discouraged when they were trying to figure out where the church stood financially.
In other words, the people who were in charge were doing things inappropriately with the church’s finances and they wanted to cover their tracks by making the report too difficult to comprehend. Imagine my amazement after listening to this false so-called prophet.
It is clear that what Ms. Bynum is doing is speaking in terms that her unsuspecting audience cannot comprehend. She is “trying” to sound deep and insightful, with a Revelation from God, when in fact she is “revealing” her ignorance and arrogance!
She uses her language very carefully so as to confuse and muddy the minds of people who are at her mercy due to their inability to know truth from error. Of course, the other word of faith teachers use the exact same tactic and method for duping their audience.
What is also apparent with Juanita Bynum that most people cannot see because she “sounds believeable” is that she, herself is a very INSECURE woman! All one has to do is really listen to her words and how God is “raising her to another level”, etc. and you will began to notice that you are listening to a woman who is unsure of herself, insecure with herself, and thus she spends all of her time promoting herself!
Let’s be clear about several things: First, there are NO living prophets today! God is not giving “new and later” revelations. We have the complete cannon of Scripture, and according to Hebrews 1:4, God’s last Word to humanity is the Revelation of His Son, Jesus Christ.
Second, there are NO living Apostles! Apostles were “foundational” characters in the early church, who’s ministry were authenticated by “signs & miracles”. When they died, the apostolic office became void, and according to the book of Revelation they have a special, unique place of honor as the foundational witnesses to the gospel and person of Jesus Christ.
Lastly, the most popular preachers in the word of faith movement are all biblically illiterate! The vast majority of them have NEVER darkened the door of a “reputable” seminary or Bible College.
They usually get a fake degree, in most cases, a PhD, from a Internet Diploma Mill named “Suffield University.” I am absoutely certain that if a seminary like Dallas Seminary or my Alma Motto, Talbot School of Theology were to give these men and women a basic bible knowlege exam, most of them would flunk!
The Bible is the Revelation of the very “Mind of God”, and how can we consider these people as “scholars” when they haven’t even discipline themselves enough to get the required amount of training?
That is the problem with our people; we settle for mediocrity! May God raise up Black men and women who are humble enough to sit at the feet of trained and learned servants of God, and who are willing to be instructed by the Holy Spirit in the ways of God, and thus put themselves in a position to be used by God for His glory!
Blessings to You All!
BT
I am not trying to have a debate either but I am trying to seek the truth. Elaborating on Ephesians 4, why would God do away with Prophets, Apostle, Teachers, and Evangists and only keep Pastors around for His people?
Secondly, if prophets are extinct because we now have the Word, why were prophets and apostles still around after Christ returned to Heaven? In the the Book of Acts, you find passages talking about daughters were prophesying and Apostles going here and there, and prophets going to and fro (Acts 9 & 11). One prophet’s name was Agabus.
Since the vail was torn apart in the temple (Luke 23:45) God allowed us to come to him on our own rather than going through priests.
I do believe that there are prophets and evangelists and pastors and teachers, and healers and etc. around. Take a look at 1Corinthians 12. May the Holy Spirit teach you as you all study these scriptures.
If I am wrong, please help me get right. May the scales continue to fall off of my eyes as well as yours.
Friend of God
Dear Friend of God:
Thanks for your sincere inquiry concerning my previous post. To answer your question is really easy. The Prophets & Apostles were “foundational” characters for the early/infant church, with the Lord Jesus Himself being the “chief cornerstone” (Ephesians 2:20).
Remember, you cannot re-lay a foundation, and therefore, the prophets and the apostles were not succeeded!
Second, God did not do away with “Teachers & Evangelists”. The word “teacher” in that passage in Ephesians 4, is hyphenated in the Greek, which means that the appropriate heading is “Pastor-Teacher”, which is one office and not two as the word of faith teachers have falsely taught down through the years.
Third, to answer your question as to why were the named officers were still around when Jesus returned to the Father?
The answer is simple: The Cannon of Scripture was nowhere near completion! Remember, when Christ returned to heaven, Saul of Tarsus had not been converted, nor had he been commissioned as an apostle by the Risen Christ, and he had not yet written the 13 of 27 New Testament Books which were added to the Cannon!
There are no “healers” today! The word of faith teachers all claim to heal people, but isn’t it interesting that there is nothing “Credible” on record to substantiate their claims!
Why is it that during their services you never see people being “genuinely” healed or being raised from the dead? You saw those things during the Apostles ministries.
And if people have the gift of healing as many of them assert, then why are our hospitals laden with sick and bed-ridden people? Why does the “anointing” only comes over them when there is a worship service on TV? Doesn’t the “anointing” works when the camera is shut down?
Now, my challenge to you my friend is, see can you Biblically refute the six (6) reasons I posted as to why there are no Apostles today, and then get back with me!
Blessings,
BT
Thanks for the feedback. So, let me clarify one more thing. If they are Oneness, that means they don’t believe in the Trinity? But they hobnob with many other pimps/pimpettes that do believe in the Trinity so they can all go a-fleecin’ the flock together? Ummm, oooook. I’m just making sure I have my facts straight, here.
“Second, there are NO living Apostles! Apostles were “foundational” characters in the early church, who’s ministry were authenticated by “signs & miracles”. When they died, the apostolic office became void, and according to the book of Revelation they have a special, unique place of honor as the foundational witnesses to the gospel and person of Jesus Christ.”
Just curious to how you arrived at this theory? Now granted, this is not an attempt to debate you because I enjoy your posts and am only wanting to get another perspective. SO when Ephesians said He gave some Apostles etc, and then go on to say how long they were to operate in Ephesians 4:
12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:
16 From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.
Have we come to the unity of the faith? Are we no longer tossed to and fro? I am just curious.
Dear Brother Al:
Thanks for your response to my blog. Please know that I will not take offense to your question as I think it is healthy from both sides. Its good that you’ve raised the question, and it is equally good that Ihave the opportunity to expound on my conclusions about the subject of Apostles.
Therefore, let me begin by saying that with all due respect, I don’t think that my position is a “theory”, but based on several Biblical, theological, and historical facts. To be an Apostle of Jesus Christ, several things had to be true, and they are:
1. The church was founded upon the Apostles (Eph. 2:20) with Christ being the chief cornerstone.
2. The Apostles were eyewitnesses to the resurrection (1 Cor. 9:1). Paul makes his argument using this requirement since the church questioned his authenticity as an Apostle. Remember, Paul Saw the risen Christ on the road to Damascus.
3. Apostles were chosen “personally” by Jesus Christ (Matt. 10:1-4; Luke 6:12-16).
4. Apostles were “authenticated” by miraculous signs. (Acts 3:3-11, 5:15-16, 9:36-42, 20:6-12) just to list a few. No so-called apostle can makes these claims today!
5. Apostles had absolute authority. (1 Cor. 14:29-33) is an example, as well as the words of Paul to Jude. (Jude1:17)
6. The Apostles have an “eternal” and “unique” place of honor. (Revelation 21:14).
In closing, I could easily expound on these points, however, time and space will not permit me. I’m confident that the info shared is enough to get any thinking person’s attention. The bottom line is the Apostle age was unique and it ended!
How do I know? History says it, the Lord Jesus says it, theology says it, and the New Testament clearly attests to it. The Apostles were unquestionably a “special breed”; and they had no successors.
Blessings!
BT
(MN: By the way, notice he’s saying Capital “A” apostle. )
What about Barnabas (Acts 14:14). Was he an apostle and if so, did he meet the qualification? What about Andronicus and Junia? Also could you expound on 1Cor 12 (focus on verse 28 & 29). Is there a difference of the “Office of an Apostle” and “work of an apostle”? Expound on this for me. Thank you.
Also I would like to add to this discussion by adding this: I have read (or heard it reasoned) that when the Apostles cast lots and it fell on Matthias, that they were jumping ahead of God and made a mistake. I would like to say that casting lots was a common practice in the old testament as well as the new. Now Peter knew that the person they chose would have to have been with them in since John the Baptist and witnesses the resurrection of Jesus as referenced in Acts 1:16-26(mainly verses 22 & 23). Now they prayed to God and asked who should take Judas place and the lot fell on Matthias. Now in proverbs 16:33 speaks about lots also. Now you have to ask yourseld that at this time, the Disciple knew the voice of God and God would not have allowed this if it was not his will.
Now, Paul was nowhere near the ressurrection of Jesus and did not fit the criteria of an Apostle based on the fact that he was not there with them in the time of John the Baptist and there were others that were apostles who did not fit the criteria. Titus, (2Cor 8:23 and notice the word “messenger” translated in the greek as “apostolos” or as we know it “APOSTLE” sames word used with the others. The same word is used in Philippians 2:25 when speaking about Epaphroditus. And as I stated earlier, barnabas was an apostle and I believe he was not even Jewish. Please elaborate for me.
Dear Al:
You’re missing more imorpartnat data to try to prove your point. Paul saw the Risen Christ, and was thus commissioned an “Apostle” of the Lord Jesus christ!
The Greek word for Apostle also use the term in a “nontechnical” sense with a general meaning. That is why people like Barnabas and a few others were called by that designation.
However, a point to bring to your attention: they were called “Apostles of the church”, which means that they were appointed by the local church, which is significantly different from being “an apostle that was personally sent by the Lord Himself!
According to 1 Corinthians 12:11-12 “The signs of a true apostle were performed among you with all perseverance, by signs and wonders and miracles.”
This verse clearly refers to Paul and the other apostles that were sent personally by the Lord. What so-called apostle do you know that has a mininstry that is “authenticated” by Christ and evidenced by “signs and wonders and miracles?”
Furthermore, when the pastoral epistles set forth principles for lasting church leadership, they speak of Elders & Deacons. They NEVER mention apsotles.
Therefore, in closing, let me say again: The apostolic age was unique and it ended. History says it, the Lord Jesus says it, theology says it, and the New Testament confirms it!
Unfortunately, we have pimps who are interested in “Titles”, and thus we see a progression of titles down thru the years. Now days, everybody wants to be known as either “Bishop”, “Prophet” or “Apostle”.
I hope you were helped some more.
Blessings!
BT
Hi Al! Concerning the lot, you are “right on the money,” for Proverbs 16:33 says: The lot is cast into the lap, but its EVERY DECISION is from the Lord. Concerning Paul, he began the majority of his letters to the Churches in various cities with, “Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God….” or Paul, an apostle (not sent from men, nor through the agency of man….” etc., etc., etc.
I don’t know about Epaphroditus or Barnabas—haven’t delved into this.
Hi Al………I believe the confusion stems from what Melvin alluded to earlier.
Capital “A” Apostles vs. Lower Case “a” apostles.
The word Apostle simply means “a messenger, a sent one.” I have no doubt that “apostle” is still a functioning ministry (sent one). I have equally little doubt that “Apostles” are unique, and ended with the homegoing of John.
There are distinctions made between Apostles (the Twelve) and apostles (such as Titus, Epaphroditus, and Barnabas).
The Apostles are strictly limited by the criteria set forth by BT……..
1. The church was founded upon the Apostles (Eph. 2:20) with Christ being the chief cornerstone.
2. The Apostles were eyewitnesses to the resurrection (1 Cor. 9:1). Paul makes his argument using this requirement since the church questioned his authenticity as an Apostle. Remember, Paul Saw the risen Christ on the road to Damascus.
3. Apostles were chosen “personally” by Jesus Christ (Matt. 10:1-4; Luke 6:12-16).
4. Apostles were “authenticated” by miraculous signs. (Acts 3:3-11, 5:15-16, 9:36-42, 20:6-12) just to list a few. No so-called apostle can makes these claims today!
5. Apostles had absolute authority. (1 Cor. 14:29-33) is an example, as well as the words of Paul to Jude. (Jude1:17)
6. The Apostles have an “eternal” and “unique” place of honor. (Revelation 21:14).
But, there are still apostles……….sent ones.
It’s like the word “God” (elohim). We say that the Bible teaches that there is only one God. And it is so.
Yet, the Bible addresses MANY other personages as “god” (elohim).
Clearly, though the same title is used, there is an overt division in class here between the one true “Elohim” and the many other “elohim” . That division is made apparent by other verses of Scripture which illuminate the “uniqueness” of the One God as opposed to the others who are called god.
The Scriptures that BT cited fulfill that same purpose for the Apostle/apostle question we are discussing here.
These verses, which are UNIQUELY applicable to the Apostles set them apart as distinct from the others referred to as apostles in the New Testament. While the ministry still functions, it has none of the unique hallmarks ascribed to the Apostles (miracles, authority,foundational aspects, witnesses of the Resurrection,present at the inception of Christ’s ministry, etc).
I hope this helps………
Your analogy is sufficient. We still have to deal with Ephesians 4 and 1cor 12 and I agree that the original Apostles were unique. Today’s apostles are “sent messengers” as comapred to the original 12 that Jesus chose. The word Apostle and the word Messenger are the same exact word in the greek. If God said he set apostles in the church, then there are apostles today. We are not in the unity in the faith and still tossed to and fro. BT and Melvin can stick to whatever they believe but I will jsut have to stick to the word. Do I know any apostles? Most likely not as a lot of messengers went and were not sent, but that does not negate that they are not here today.
Dear Al:
Remember, words cna take on different meanings depending on how they are used. Context is king when it comes to understanding words. Therefore, while the word for Apostle is the same, the meaning of these different groups of “apostles” are clearly different. The conclusion of the matter is there is a vast difference between being called and appointed as an apostle by the living Lord Himself and being sent as a “messenger” of the church! That’s the difference in the meaning my friend.
BT
Al…………If I’m not misreading Melvin and BT, we are all in agreement that there are indeed “apostles” but not “Apostles. I don’t see how we are not in unity on the issue, unless I’m missing something.
Dear Gary:
Yes, I would say that for “me” I possibly would give concession to the idea of a pastor or other spiritual leader having the “function” of a “apostle” as a messenger.
However, I”m not comfortable with the title apostle as it can lead to many false ideas that can misrepresent the “scope” of their mission.
And yes, I’m definitely with you when we say that there are no longer “Apostles” in the sense of Paul, Peter, James, and John, etc.
So, maybe brother Al can live with that I suppose. At any rate, thanks for all your thoughtful and educational posts.
Blessings!
BT
Hi BT !!
I share your concern for the confusion due the use of the term “apostle”. Indeed, it has a history of causing confusion, and maybe never more so than today.
However, God saw fit to use it in Scripture as applicable to those outside the 12 (though in a different scope, of course).
He relies upon teachers to make the distinction I suppose……….I imagine even if another term were used, those bent upon twisting Scripture would still do so anyway.
Ah well……..
Gary V, Black Theologian, or anyone…. Help me out with scripture references. I have never (or at least paid attention to) “Apostles” vs “apostles”.
I understand the office and purpose of one, I just did not know that Timothy, Titus, etc were “apostles”. Yes they were messengers, but were they ever referred to as “apostles” in the word? The term alone can cause confusion as to the original 12 and the church leaders.
Was this the term used for them? Help me out on this one, because it is totally foreign, appointment as an “Apostle” must have been personally chosen by the Lord, as well as miraculous signs, speacial seats in heaven, etc, etc….so the lowercase with reference to just “apostles” I need a bit of clarity upon.
I knew of someone whom referred to himself as an “Apostle”, and not “apostle” (which I cannot agree with after various indications otherwise) but from what I have learned that this specific office was defunct after the original church as referred to in the Book of Acts.
Dear Gridiron (ALM):
Thanks for your post. Timothy and Titus were not “Apostles” of the Lord Jesus Christ. As already have been stated, the Greek word is used in certain contexts to make a point.
The Apostles such as Peter, James, and John were all personally called by the Lord Himself and commissioned as the “Foundational” characters of the early/infant church.
Others who were called by the name “apostles” are simply messengers sent by the church and did not have to have the same qualifications as the Apostles.
This is a simple reply and I hope it at least cause you to do more research.
Blessings!
BT
BT,
Thanks. Much appreciated.
Dear Gridiron:
I thought I would give just a bit more clarity on my previous post. It is important to note that the Apostles actually were used to “lay” down the foundation of the church; they were not the foundation.
According to Paul in 1 Corinthians 3, he says, “no other foundation can be laid other than Jesus Christ.” In other words, Paul is making the point that while he “built on the foundation” (Christ), the Lord Jesus Himself is the foundation on which he and everybody since him has built on….if they are true servants of Christ!
Blessings!
BT
Amen. My concern was the foundation that the Apostles laid versus the term apostle (simply messenger) as referred to with regard to the early church leaders.
I understand the original Apostles mission, but I had no idea (or immediate recollection) that the term (as a simple identifier) was used upon anyone else, though just a messenger and not of only the chosen 12, such as Titus, Timothy, etc….
BT, And also when I hear the term “Apostle” used today by ANY individual….they connotate the term (from each that I have seen and read of) as used of the original 12 as noted in the book of Acts….an nothing else, when this is completely false.
When one often refers to themselves as being a “messenger” from the Lord….usually (from what I have witnessed, and experienced) they are referring to themselves as a “prophet” of a sort. So with regard to the simplicity of a “messenger’ as an apostle (in short) is….then is it logical to call oneself an “apostle” because they feel they are “bringing” a message from the Lord?
Though the true meaning of the term is biblical, I wonder if that is a term to be used for an individual today ….(that may be a “dumb” question being that anything in the Word is applicable…but I feel I must address this for complete clarity.)
But I am definetly scouring the Word for myself on this.
BT, I was gonna drop this subject but then you posted again and used these statements:
(1)”Thanks for your post. Timothy and Titus were not “Apostles” of the Lord Jesus Christ.”
(2) “Others who were called by the name “apostles” are simply messengers sent by the church and did not have to have the same qualifications as the Apostles.”
To argue a small “a” and capital “A” is weak. If that were the case in the epistles of Romans, 1st and 2nd Corinthians,Galatians, Ephesians, Colossians, 1st and 2nd Timothy, and the Epistles of Peter, all the words “apostles are in small letters. As a matter of fact all of the words “apostle” is in lower case “a” except when referring to Jesus in the 3rd chapter of Hebrews.
And two more things on this subject. 1.Look up the words apostle, messeger, and messengers and tell me what the greek word for it.
2. Someone tell me why the book of Acts never concludes?
Al………..c’mon brother, you’re pulling our legs, right??
The Capital “A” verses small case “a” was my own way of distinguishing between the 2 classes of men we were talking about. It had nothing to do with how the word was actually written in Scripture.
The fact remains………..the characteristics that delineate the 12 from all others referred to as apostles (and thereby set them apart as a separate and FINISHED class) are the ones BT posted.
In order for ANYONE claiming the mantle of Apostle today (in the sense of the 12), they MUST meet the criteria that CONCLUSIVELY defined the 12.
I will cede the point to you that this class of Apostles is still open today (with its attendant powers, influence, and authority) if you can find me someone today who was there when Jesus started His ministry………or saw Him post resurrection………or has verifiably miraculous powers.
Unless you can do so, the class of Apostle is closed by Biblical definition. You can still have “sent ones” today, but there are NONE who operate in the same Apostolic Office as the 12. Scripture specifically closes that option by insisting that the criteria above MUST be met.
The Book of Acts being closed or open doesn’t eliminate the the fact that no one today can meet those requirements.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostle#Greek_etymology
Thanks Gary V. These were my thoughts of this office, but I could not conceptualize them. Anyone calling themselves an Apostle today cannot be accurate. Thanks again for the clarity.
We are in agreement.
Dear Gary V:
You have hit a “Home Run” on th issue! thanks for your insightful input.
Blessings!
BT
All Glory to Him, BT. I appreciate your kind words, since I respect you and enjoy your site.
Blessings!!
isnt it funny that in part 2 the man asked J.Bynum-Weaks that “For that woman whose spirit is in agreement to what you are revealing, what should that woman do? How can that woman take what you said from now?
Bynumm got stumped she didnt know what to say. She replied “In reflection to what?”
From the bible GOD doesnt give a revelation to His prophets and then not tell them what to do. GOD’s message is simple and always almost the same
Repent form your sins (WARNING)
and turn to me GOD and I will forgive you (INSTRUCTION)
J.Bynum-Weaks never gave any practical instruction on all babbling AND so called revelation she was wasting time with. She just told the man that the Holy Spirit will reveal to every woman what they should do.
This makes me sick.
Another point. she said her conference are not for people who are looking for the meat of the word but the Mysteries OF THE WORD
IS THIS WOMAN A JOKE OR A DEVIL
Nice insight gab.As for your final question……….does it have to be an “either/or” propostion?? Can’t she be BOTH?? LOL!!!!!
I will agree with one of Juanita’s statements……….you’re certainly NOT going to get any Scriptural meat at her table. Just “Mystery Meat”……….and we all know about “Mystery Meat”.
Anything she serves will likely give you Spiritual Mad Cow Disease.