GaryV, may I?

I know you addressed this to GaryV but I just can’t resist a softball when I see it coming.

I’m not going to address all of your arguments. I will, at least for now, limit myself to the one dealing with the New Testament.

I suspect, given the things you have said, that you don’t have a very detailed understanding about the testaments. I’ll not get into a great deal of detail in the response. Instead I will ask you this: If we are still under the law (the Old Testament) where are we to offer the sacrifices and where are we to make the offerings? The Law is very specific about what offerings are to be made and where they are to be made. If you are married and had children, where do you take them to be circumcised on the eighth day. And where does you wife go to offer a sin sacrifice once she has had a child? All of these are under the Law.

Also, when you do the yearly deal with the scapegoat, exactly who will lay his hand on the goat? I assume you know one or two descendents of Aaron. Oh, and are the priests going to do the ceremonial washing thing before they lay their hand on the goat. Which desert, or wilderness will the priest release the goat into? Is the California desert okay or should we use the Badlands of the Dakotas instead?

If, as you say, we are under the law, I assume you abide by the dietary laws as well. This would mean you have never had a cheeseburger since there is a restriction against mixing meat and milk.

Was it really all that hard to read the rest of the verse you quoted. It says this: “for verily I say unto you, till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, TILL ALL BE FULLFILLED. Can we perhaps agree that Jesus’ death on the cross fulfilled the Law? At the last supper (matt 26:28), Jesus even says: “For this is my blood of the new testament…” The new testament is not simply a book. It is the covenant God has established with the Christians, sealed with the blood of His Son. That new covenant, or New Testament, does not depend on the Law. Rather, it fulfills the law as it says in Gal 5:22, 23. If I walk in the fruit of the Spirit, the Law is unimportant. There is no need to tell me I must not steal , I don’t want to. There is no need to threaten me with stoning if I fornicate. I willingly choose not to fornicate.

On this end, it’s not about the Law. It’s about God’s grace working in my life to align my life with His will.

By the way, could I borrow your phylactery next month?

Dear Melvin,

I really do appreciate you replying to my comment. Let me first point out that you are doing a good job of exposing the falsehood of modern day christianity. But I do think that we need to come to some common ground. It is obvious that when you say “law”, that you are referring to the sacrifice and offerings. But when I say “law”,what I am referring to is the commandments that are in Exodus 20.

Now, do I keep the dietary law? Yes I do as outlined in Leviticus 11 and Deu. 14. In these two texts, the Lord is letting us know what beast are clean and which ones are unclean. I can also use the bible and show you that the Lord had all of the beast deemed clean and unclean before man even started to eat meat.

Yes I do keep the feast days of the Lord outlined in the 23rd chapter of Lev. The only thing that I dont include in these feast is the animal sacrifice. That is because Jesus came and was the ultimate sacrifice. All of those sacrifices in the Old Testament represented Jesus. That is why every lamb had to be a male of the 1st year without spot or blemish. Just like Jesus was the 1st born of Mary and he was without sin. When he died, the veil of the temple ripped from top to bottom, signifying the end of the animal sacrifice, Not his commandments.

Also, if you do away with these feast, then you are doing away with the Lord’s plan for this earth. Now I want to briefly address the scapegoat. I am sure that you know that the scapegoat comes into the picture during the day of atonement. There were 2 goats, 1 goat was to be killed for the sins of the people and the other goat was to be freed into the wilderness to a place not inhabited. Both of these goats represented Jesus.

The 1st goat was killed for the sins of the world ( was not Jesus cut off, but not for himself?). And the second goat was freed into a place not inhabited ( did not Jesus rise from the dead and ascend back to heaven to be on the right hand of the Father to be our intercessor?). You can not pay me to believe that the Lord inspired all of the Old Testament just to do away with it all. That is mindless.

I agree that the New Testament is very important and that New “Testament” simply means New “Covenant”. But not dealing with the Old Testament is just like living in a house with a roof, but it has no floor. Now I want to make reference to a couple of scriptures concerning Paul. 1st, take a look at Acts 28:21-27. I am not ignoring any verses, but I want you to pay close attention to verse 23. Notice he is expounding on the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the Law of Moses, and out of the Prophets (Old Testament), from morning till evening. You mean to tell me he was expounding on Jesus out of the Old Testament? Why didn’t he expound on Jesus out of the New Testament? Because these books were not around then.

Notice that he also went on to quote Isaiah 6:9-10. Also, notice Acts 26:21-23. How is it that Paul is expounding on Jesus out of the Law of Moses and the Prophets? I’ll give you a hint: Jesus did say, ” Lo, I come in the volume of the book. It is Written of me to do thy will O God. The volume is V= length*width*height. There is not one book in the bible that does not talk about Jesus the Christ. Now I want to show you that the New “Testament” or “Covenant” that the Lord made with his people has nothing to do with eleminating his commandments.

Check out. Hebrews 8:1-12. Notice verse 4. Paul said that the priest would offer gifts according to the law. The question is,,WHAT LAW?. The animal sacrifice law. This is the law that was ADDED BECAUSE OF TRANSGRESSION. When the people would sin against God unwittingly, they would bring a sacrifice to the priest. The priest would kill the animal before the Tabernacle of the Congregation, take the blood before the veil in the temple and sprinkle the blood 7 times before the veil, and this was to free the person from his or her sin. But if you read Hebrews 10, you will see that the Lord had no pleasure in the sacrifice of bulls and goats becasue the blood of bulls and goats could not take away sin.

Now since Jesus died, he put an end to the animal sacrifice, meaning no more animals will die for your sins, you will die for yourself now. Lets go further. Check verse 8. Paul said ,” for finding fault with THEM! (not with the law or the commandments) I will make a new COVENANT or TESTAMENT with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah”. Now what is this New Covenant or Testament that he will make with his people? Read verse 9-10. Notice he said that he will PUT HIS LAWS INTO THEIR MINDS AND WRITE THEM IN THEIR HEARTS. Again, he said the same thing in Hebrews 10:16. Notice, this is the new Testament or Covenant and this is also Paul writing to the Hebrews. OH yeah, did you also notice that Paul is quoting from the Old Testament? Check Jeremiah 31:31-34. Check Proverbs 28:9. Solomon is letting you know that if you turn you ear from hearing the LAW, your prayer is an abomination. Check St. John 9:31.

This is a man who recieved his sight from Jesus. Notice he said that god heareth not sinner, but if you are a worshipper of God and doeth his will, he will hear you. Again, what is sin? Check 1John 3:4. In other words, if you break God’s commandments, then you are sinning against him. To conclude, all I ask is that we not be so narrow minded when it comes to God’s laws. How can you govern a people without laws? And then again, what is to seperate the saint from the sinner if there is no law? When judgement day comes, what will you be judged by? Your faith? Lets let the book tell us. Check Revelation 20:12-13.

It looks like to me that everyone will be judged according to their works. Not to overrule faith, because I am sure that you know that without faith, it is impossible to please God. But James said that Faith without Works is DEAD.. I agree with you that Christ is the end of the law, but the law that he put an end to is the animal sacrifice law, Not his commandments. Again check Matthew 22:36-40. When he said Love the Lord thy God with all thy heart and with all thy soul and with all thy mind, this is fulfilling the 1st 4 commandments. When he said the 2nd is like unto the 1st, love thy neighbor as thyself, this is the last 6 commandments. In conclusion, let me point out that I am a 24 year old young man trying to live for God. I believe that the Lord has given me a little knowledge now so that I can help others. This is really a life and death matter. I just ask you to concider this so that you can save yourself at the time appointed. I look forward to your response.

Ok EPotts, of course you are quite detailed in what you believe in regards to the Old and New Covenants, but can you please explain these passages? And how is this consistant with your belief:

Luke 5:33-39

[33] They said to him, “John’s disciples often fast and pray, and so do the disciples of the Pharisees, but yours go on eating and drinking.”

[34] Jesus answered, “Can you make the guests of the bridegroom fast while he is with them? [35] But the time will come when the bridegroom will be taken from them; in those days they will fast.”

[36] He told them this parable: “No one tears a patch from a new garment and sews it on an old one. If he does, he will have torn the new garment, and the patch from the new will not match the old. [37] And no one pours new wine into old wineskins. If he does, the new wine will burst the skins, the wine will run out and the wineskins will be ruined. [38] No, new wine must be poured into new wineskins. [39] And no one after drinking old wine wants the new, for he says, ‘The old is better.’ “

Dear truthofgod,

thank you brother for your reply. I will explain to you how your reference is consistent with my belief. If you would please refer to the book of Romans the 7th chapter, you will see that Paul is letting you know that he had not known sin but by the law. Lets start with verse 7.
What shall we say then? [Is] the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
Now Paul is letting you know that he did not know that he was lusting until he read the law. Check verse 8.

But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin [was] dead.
In other words, as long as he didn’t know the law, he did not know that he was in transgression. Check verse 9.

For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
Now we both know that he is not saying that he literally died, otherwise he would not have made this statement. What he is saying is when he was not aware of the law, he was alive to sin. But when he recieved knowledge of his wrong doing, he made a change in his life, and therefore that old person died. Check verses 10

And the commandment, which [was ordained] to life, I found [to be] unto death.

Why did he find the commandment ordained unto life to be unto death? Check verse 11.
For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew [me].
He found it to be unto death because when he recieved knowledge of the law, he put off that old person and that old person died.

Paul sums all of this up in the 6th chapter of Romans starting at verse 1.
What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?

Rom 6:2 - 7 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also [in the likeness] of [his] resurrection: Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with [him], that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. For he that is dead is freed from sin. The old wineskins that Jesus spoke of represents that old person. The new wine is the righteousnesss and the word of God. Now how can I partake in the righteousness of God if I am still walking in my wickedness. You cant eat from the Lord’s table and from the table of Satan. Now, am I saying that I am perfect? God forbid. Nobody is perfect. But I do put forth the effort of serving God one day at a time. I hope that this answers your question bro. Once again, thank your reply.

(MN: I suspect the two of you are violently agreeing with each other. )

Have at it Melvin………..I hope you enjoy being up to your knees in skim milk LOL!!!

EPotts, there is no doubt that we are to flee from sin and live in rightousness. But the scriptures clearly teach that we are not justified by the law, rather we are justified by faith (Romans 5:9, Romans 3:28, Galatians 2:16). I also agree that we are to obey the law, but not the law of Moses but the law of Christ which is greater than Moses, Galations 3:24-25. You may think that when we speak against the observance of the Old Covenant law, that we automatically believe that no law exist, thats not the truth. The Old law and old testament prophets set the foundation for the New Testament church. But, the Law of Moses was fulfilled by Christ’s death on the cross therefore the only commandment that we are to observe is the law of Love, which covers the entire law of Moses Gal. 6:2.

BTW, if we are to still obey the laws of the Old covenant, then what did Christ die for? And is salvation based upon faith + works? Its possible that i may be reading too much into what you may be saying here.

Thanks

Dear truthofgod,

I am glad to see that you and I can come to some type of common ground. I agree with you that we are not justified by the works of the law like Paul said, but the law that he is referring to is the law of animal sacrifice.

Now, concider a few things. We have the habbt of referring to the Old Testament Laws as the Laws of Moses, which is cool, but notice that every law that Moses gave, he gave by the commandment of God. When you get time, read through Exodus, lev., and Deu.. And you will that before Moses spoke to the people, the Lord always came to him first and said,” Speak unto the children of Israel and say unto them, THUS SAID THE LORD”. Not thus said Moses. So all of the laws given are given by God.

Also concider that the Lord is showing us an example of his priesthood through Moses. Check out Exodus 4:10-16 when you get a chance. When the Lord first called on Moses to deliver his people, Moses did not want to go. He made up all kind of excuses of why the Lord should not send him. He said that he was not eloquent and that he was slow of tongue. But notice that the Lord sent Aaron his brother and he said that Aaron was going to be to him instead of a mouth, and he was going to be to Aaron instead of God. Moses was the intercessor between God and the people. The intercessor is the only person that the father will hear.

The point that I am trying to make is that now, when you pray to God, you always pray in the name of Jesus, Right?? Jesus is the intercessor between us and the Father. Jesus is the only one that the Father will hear at this point. I dont want to get to deep into that, the point that I am trying to make is that the law comes from God. He just used Moses to show us an example of how the true priesthood operates. Also, check out Deu. 18:15-19. Moses is letting the people know that the Lord is going to raise up a prophet from among their brethren like unto himself. Then go to the book of Acts 3:17-26 and you will see that the prophet that Moses was referring to is Jesus.

As far as the law of love, I agree with you 100%. And to add on to what you said, take a look at Romans 13:8-10. So I agree with the law of love and this validates Matt. 22:36-40. By loving the Lord your God with all heart, soul and mind, you are fullfilling the 1st 4 of the 10 commandments. Why? Because if you love the Lord, then you will not put other God’s before him, you will not make any graven images and worship them, you will not use his name in vain and you will remember his sabbath day to keep it holy. If you love your neighbor like yourself, then you are fulfilling the last 6 of the 10 commandments. Why? Because you will first honor your mother and father, you will not kill your neighbor, you wont commit adultery with his or her spouse, you wont still from them, you wont lie on them and you will not covet after their stuff.

Why wont you do all of these evil things? For the same reason you said Bro. You have the law of love. Also notice in Matthew 22:40 that he said that on these two hang all the law and the prophets. Check out John 14:12-15. He is letting you know that what ever you ask in his name, he will grant it to you, but that comes with stipulations. My main focus though is verse 15. He said if you love him, keep his commandments. So it is now that you and I can agree that LOVE IS THE FULFILLING OF THE LORD’S LAW. Thank you truthofgod once again for your feedback. I look forward to your reply. Peace and love to you.

Epotts, i hear you but thats not what i mean when i mentioned that the Law of Love covers the entire law of Moses. I wasn’t saying that we are to observe the sabbath day, ceremonies, sacrifices, or anything like that… Ok take for instance, you said that:

“I agree with you that we are not justified by the works of the law like Paul said, but the law that he is referring to is the law of animal sacrifice”

now if this was the case then Paul wouldn’t have made such statement regarding the LAW:

2Cor. 3: 7-17

7But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:

8How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?

9For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.

10For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.

11For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.

12Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech:

13And not as Moses, which put a veil over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:

14But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.

15But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.

16Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.

17Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.

Notice some key point Paul in v. 7 mentioned that the commandments “written on stone” not just animal sacrifices was the “ministration of death” and that it was glorious, BUT! now the ministriation of rightousness (new covenant) exceeds glory (old covenant).

Another thing that we must take notice of in the this passage is v.11-17. God through Paul speaks plainly that those who are still under the Old covenant or the Old Law, are for all intents and purposes, blind and have a veil over their faces. Furthermore when “Moses is read” (the law of Moses is observed) a veil is placed upon their hearts. Its only Christ that can remove that vail.

Why would Christ need to remove something that is still to be observed and recognized? Why if i follow the Old Law, Old Covenant, Law of Moses, Old Ministration - how every you want to put it, that i am labeled as blind and a veil over my heart for doing so? Rather, it is Christ and him crucified that removes the burden of the Old Law, and gives us liberty of following him in Spirit and truth. Feed back please.

Thank you brother

hi E. Potts, how does one keep the sabbath day holy?

(MN: And when did it move to Sunday [the first day of the week] instead of Saturday [the last day of the week]? Please show me FROM SCRIPTURE where God said forget about keeping the last day of the week holy and now start keeping the first day of the week holy. )

Greetings Mrs. Maverick,
Lets me make something clear. First of all, I never said that Sunday is the sabbath. I know that the Lord’s Sabbath day is on the 7th day of the week which we know as Saturday. The reason that Sunday is the christian day of worship now has nothing to do with God at all. It has something to do with the Roman emperor constantine.

You get my point, so do your research from there. Now, if you want to know how to keep the Sabbath day holy, read the book of Exodus the 20th chapter to pick it up. Then go to Exodus 31 verse 12-18. You will see that the sabbath day is a day of rest and a holy convocation or gathering. Not keeping the Lord’s sabbath day is punishable by eternal death.

Then go to Isaiah 58:13-14 and the Lord is speaking through Isaiah and letting us know how to keep the sabbath day holy. Then go to the book of Luke the 4th chapter and start at verse 14-17. You will see that it was the custom of Jesus to go into the synagogue on the sabbath and read. Then go to Acts 13:13-15 and you will that Paul and his company went into the synagogue in Antioch on the sabbath day and read from the law and the prophets( on the Sabbath day which is today..SATURDAY!!).

Hope this answers your question. I have to go right now because we are about to start our sabbath services. I will respond to truthofgod’s comment a little later. Thank you Mrs. Maverick for your reply.

So is it safe to assume that you go to Synagogue at sunset on Fridays (the start of the Sabbath)?

The more you write, the more it sounds like you have what amounts to a works-based salvation. If I don’t do certain things on a certain day, I face eternal death. But I’m probably misunderstanding you.

Second issue: You said we have do the Sunday thing because of Constantine. Are you sure? If you take a look at Matthew 28:1 (after the death of Jesus) the resurrection happens. It reads “after the sabbath, on the first day of the week.

I could reasonably argue that Pentecost took place on a Sunday (Pentecost = 50 days after the second day of Passover). Additionally, Paul, in speaking to one of the churches, tell them to set aside money nn the first day of the week. (1 Cor 16:2).

With respect to the Synagogue thing with Paul, Certainly he went to the synagogue on the Sabbath. When else could he be assured of getting a good crowd? Notice that after he read from the law, he began witnessing to the JEWS, the Men of Israel. This wasn’t a gathering of Christians, it was a gathering of Jews.

A more applicable verse might be Acts 20:7 in which the people are clearly Christians and are gathered together as Christians.

And this happened before Constantine had even been a gleam in his dad’s eye. Heck, Constantine’s great great grandad was even a gleam in his gret great great grandad’s eye.

So tell me again the justification for saying the Sunday thing only began after Constantine.

In a bit, I hope we can move to Hebrews and talk about what it says about the sabbath and how the sabbath related to Jesus Christ and our rest in Him.

Later.

“You get my point, so do your research from there. Now, if you want to know how to keep the Sabbath day holy, read the book of Exodus the 20th chapter to pick it up. Then go to Exodus 31 verse 12-18. You will see that the sabbath day is a day of rest and a holy convocation or gathering. Not keeping the Lord’s sabbath day is punishable by eternal death.”

EPotts,
Could you please refer to a scripture under the New Covenant were “not observing the Sabbath dayis punishable to eternal death”? What it appears that you are doing is mixing the Old and New Covenants together, which is impossible to do and please God at the same time. Numerous amounts of scripture , ( the entire book of Galatians) warn us about attempting to be justified by the Old Law. In fact, God warns us that where there is no grace under such doing. Its either we trust Christ or we are on our own. It isn’t Trust Jesus + works = salvation. Rather by trusting Christ we are made a new creature which will be manifest through our good works. You seem quite zealous to do God’s will, but you must do it according to truth.

hi E.Potts, you dont have to make anything clear to me about saturday being the sabbath because i never said anything about WHICH day of the week is the sabbath. i merely asked HOW does one keep the sabbath day holy? thanks for the input.

hi TOG, i’m glad that you, gary, and melvin, are up to debating w/ e.potts because i’ve been down this road before and it is a long one. i have friends who are 7th day adventists and they are very adamant in their position (as i believe we all are when we believe we are standing on truth) however, our debates ended w/ us amicably agreeing to disagree and praying that God would surely open up the eyes of the one who may be in error. i don’t feel like travelling down that avenue again so y’all have a good time w/ it and i will just get more popcorn.

(MN: Yeah, I know. But I figure I’ll at least give it a try. IF nothing else, we can all see how various religions manipulate scripture and how their adherants refuse to consider anything else. But who knows? EPotts may actually listen to Scripture.

I consider most discussions like this as two things: An opportunity to learn how to listen to other people and a chance at practicing the defense of the Gospel - addressing their honest questions and concerns. At times I will have to do it away from here [if it gets too long and repetitive]. But at least I can start the dialogue then continue it as long as they are willing. )

hi mel, i see your point, i didn’t look at it the way you put it- a way to practice one’s defense of the gospel. (contending for the faith) but w/ all the long posts i can see how it helps to go back and forth for a while- i know many have been helped on this site.

(MN: The hard part is deciding when to end the back and forth. Some contributors get “banned” sooner than others. Some get to continue longer. I’m sure some people remember William and his skulking friends.

I want to keep the site beneficial to the saints and an irritant to the pimps. But at the same time, I want to make sure it’s interesting. )

E Potts wrote……

“I agree with you that we are not justified by the works of the law like Paul said, but the law that he is referring to is the law of animal sacrifice.”

Please…………in context for a change would be nice,BTW…………..document FROM THE WORD that the Law Paul referred to was LIMITED to the laws covering animal sacrifice.

Then document the fallacious assertion that Constantine changed the Sabbath.

Your history is as bad as your Biblical interpretation…………

Passages of Scripture such as Acts 20:7, 1 Corinthians 16:2, Colossians 2:16-17, and Revelation 1:10 which Mel already mentioned, indicate that even during New Testament times, the Sabbath is no longer binding, and that Christians are to worship on the Lord’s day, Sunday, instead.

Another series of Scriptures is even more explicit, coming from the earliest church, as to what is to be done in the Christian life pertaining to the Law.

Please note, Mr Potts, that Paul (the supposed non-Scripture writer) didn’t pen these words. Please note as well that these words ARE THE CONSENSUS OF THE CHURCH APOSTLES who walked with, and learned from, Christ Himself after His resurrection.

The following strictures are ALL THAT IS DEEMED NECESSARY to walk uprightly in Christ ACCORDING TO THOSE WHO RECEIVED CHRIST”S COMMANDMENTS in the days between His resurrection and ascension to the Father’s Right Hand.

Acts 15:1 - 31:

And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, [and said], Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved (Mosaic Law).
When therefore Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and disputation with them, they determined that Paul and Barnabas, and certain other of them, should go up to Jerusalem unto the apostles and elders about this question (keeping the Law).
And being brought on their way by the church, they passed through Phenice and Samaria, declaring the conversion of the Gentiles: and they caused great joy unto all the brethren.
And when they were come to Jerusalem, they were received of the church, and [of] the APOSTLES (Capital “A” Apostles…….Peter, James, John,etc) AND ELDERS , and they declared all things that God had done with them.
But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, AND TO COMMAND THEM TO KEEP THE LAW OF MOSES (which is ALL the Law… from the stone tablets, to the Festivals, to the food restrictions, to the Sabbath. Moses wrote it ALL).
And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter.
And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men [and] brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.
And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as [he did] unto us;
And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
Now therefore why tempt ye (Mr Potts) God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples (of Christ), which neither our fathers nor we (Nor Mr Potts) were able to bear?
But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.
Act 15:12 Then all the multitude kept silence, and gave audience to Barnabas and Paul, declaring what miracles and wonders God had wrought among the Gentiles by them.
And after they had held their peace, James answered, saying, Men [and] brethren, hearken unto me:
Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.
And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written,
After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:
That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things.
Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.
Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:
But that we write unto them, that they abstain from (Here it comes Mr Potts………here are ALL THE LAWS we are obliged to keep as Christians)(1) pollutions of idols, and [from](2) fornication, and (3)[from] things strangled, and (4) [from] blood.

(THAT”S IT MR POTTS. Notice what is NOT written as necessary to walk in Christ. Sabbath. Food restrictions (gotta have me some pork).Jewish Festivals. Apparently, the Apostles are against you as well…………what hope have you now??)

For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.
Then pleased it the apostles and elders, with the whole church, to send chosen men of their own company to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas; [namely], Judas surnamed Barsabas, and Silas, chief men among the brethren:
And they wrote [letters] by them after this manner; The apostles and elders and brethren [send] greeting unto the brethren which are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia:
Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls (notice next that you say the same things that the Bible ascribes to those that SUBVERT SOULS), saying, [Ye must] be circumcised, AND KEEP THE LAW: to whom we gave NO SUCH COMMANDMENT:
It seemed good unto us, being assembled with ONE ACCORD (not even ONE argument against this among the Apostles), to send chosen men unto you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul,
Men that have hazarded their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.
We have sent therefore Judas and Silas, who shall also tell [you] the same things by mouth.
For it seemed good to the HOLY GHOST (UH OH Mr Potts, is the Holy Ghost…………Author of the Law, BTW……..wrong too??) and to US (The Apostles who heard the commands of the Risen Christ), to lay upon you (the Gentile Christians) NO GREATER BURDEN than these NECESSARY things (In other words, anything OTHER than what comes next is an UNNECESSARY burden to a walk with Christ, according to THE HOLY GHOST and those who talked with the RISEN CHRIST.READY?!?!?!);
That ye abstain from meats offered to idols (NO restrictions on ANY meats EXCEPT what is offered to idols), and from blood (Popular pagan rites), and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye (Christians) keep yourselves, YE SHALL DO WELL. Fare ye well.

So when they were dismissed, they came to Antioch: and when they had gathered the multitude together, they delivered the epistle:
[Which] when they had read, they rejoiced for the consolation.
And Judas and Silas, being prophets also themselves, exhorted the brethren with many words, and confirmed [them].
And after they had tarried [there] a space, they were let go in peace from the brethren unto the apostles.
Notwithstanding it pleased Silas to abide there still.
Paul also and Barnabas continued in Antioch, teaching and preaching the word of the Lord, with many others also.

Also, Mr Potts had made the erroneous claim that Emperor Constantine was the one who changed Saturday Sabbath worship to Sunday (though we have already seen from the Word above that the Sabbath was NOT mentioned as one of the NECESSARY things mentioned by the Holy Ghost and the Apostles for Christians to observe).

Now, keep in mind Mr Potts, that Constantine didn’t deliver his Sunday edict until 321 AD.

THEREFORE, if your contention is correct………namely that Constantine (and not the Holy Ghost and the Apostles as we have already seen) was responsible for changing the church to Sunday worship…….we should NOT see Sunday worship in ANY of the early church writings before 321 AD.

Uh Oh again Mr Potts………….

The Didache (70 AD)

“But every Lord’s day . . . gather yourselves together and break bread, and give thanksgiving after having confessed your transgressions, that your sacrifice may be pure. But let no one that is at variance with his fellow come together with you, until they be reconciled, that your sacrifice may not be profaned” (Didache 14 [A.D. 70]).

The Letter of Barnabas (74 AD)

“We keep the eighth day [Sunday] with joyfulness, the day also on which Jesus rose again from the dead” (Letter of Barnabas 15:6,8 [A.D. 74]).

Ignatius of Antioch (110 AD)

“[T]hose who were brought up in the ancient order of things [i.e. Jews] have come to the possession of a new hope, no longer observing the Sabbath, but living in the observance of the Lord’s day, on which also our life has sprung up again by him and by his death” (Letter to the Magnesians 8 [A.D. 110]).

Justin Martyr (155 AD)

“[W]e too would observe the fleshly circumcision, and the Sabbaths, and in short all the feasts, if we did not know for what reason they were enjoined [on] you–namely, on account of your transgressions and the hardness of your heart. . . . [H]ow is it, Trypho, that we would not observe those rites which do not harm us–I speak of fleshly circumcision and Sabbaths and feasts? . . . God enjoined you to keep the Sabbath, and imposed on you other precepts for a sign, as I have already said, on account of your unrighteousness and that of your fathers . . .” (Dialogue with Trypho the Jew 18, 21 [A.D. 155]).

“But Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a change in the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ our Savior on the same day rose from the dead” (First Apology 67 [A.D. 155]).

Tertullian (203 AD)

“[L]et him who contends that the Sabbath is still to be observed as a balm of salvation, and circumcision on the eighth day . . . teach us that, for the time past, righteous men kept the Sabbath or practiced circumcision, and were thus rendered ‘friends of God.’ For if circumcision purges a man, since God made Adam uncircumcised, why did he not circumcise him, even after his sinning, if circumcision purges? . . . Therefore, since God originated Adam uncircumcised and unobservant of the Sabbath, consequently his offspring also, Abel, offering him sacrifices, uncircumcised and unobservant of the Sabbath, was by him [God] commended [Gen. 4:1,7, Heb. 11:4]. . . . Noah also, uncircumcised–yes, and unobservant of the Sabbath–God freed from the deluge. For Enoch too, most righteous man, uncircumcised and unobservant of the Sabbath, he translated from this world, who did not first taste death in order that, being a candidate for eternal life, he might show us that we also may, without the burden of the law of Moses, please God” (An Answer to the Jews 2 [A.D. 203]).

The Didascalia (225 AD)

“The apostles further appointed: On the first day of the week let there be service, and the reading of the holy scriptures, and the oblation [sacrifice of the Mass], because on the first day of the week [i.e., Sunday] our Lord rose from the place of the dead, and on the first day of the week he arose upon the world, and on the first day of the week he ascended up to heaven, and on the first day of the week he will appear at last with the angels of heaven” (Didascalia 2 [A.D. 225]).

Origen (229 AD)

“Hence it is not possible that the [day of] rest after the Sabbath should have come into existence from the seventh [day] of our God. On the contrary, it is our Savior who, after the pattern of his own rest, caused us to be made in the likeness of his death, and hence also of his resurrection” (Commentary on John 2:28 [A.D. 229]).

Victorinus (300 AD)

“The sixth day [Friday] is called parasceve, that is to say, the preparation of the kingdom. . . . On this day also, on account of the passion of the Lord Jesus Christ, we make either a station to God or a fast. On the seventh day he rested from all his works, and blessed it, and sanctified it. On the former day we are accustomed to fast rigorously, that on the Lord’s day we may go forth to our bread with giving of thanks. And let the parasceve become a rigorous fast, lest we should appear to observe any Sabbath with the Jews . . . which Sabbath he [Christ] in his body abolished” (The Creation of the World [A.D. 300]).

Eusebius of Caesarea (312-319 AD)

“They [the early saints of the Old Testament] did not care about circumcision of the body, neither do we [Christians]. They did not care about observing Sabbaths, nor do we. They did not avoid certain kinds of food, neither did they regard the other distinctions which Moses first delivered to their posterity to be observed as symbols; nor do Christians of the present day do such things” (Church History 1:4:8 [A.D. 312]).

“[T]he day of his [Christ’s] light . . . was the day of his resurrection from the dead, which they say, as being the one and only truly holy day and the Lord’s day, is better than any number of days as we ordinarily understand them, and better than the days set apart by the Mosaic law for feasts, new moons, and Sabbaths, which the apostle [Paul] teaches are the shadow of days and not days in reality” (Proof of the Gospel 4:16:186 [A.D. 319]).

It was not, Mr Potts, until A.D. 321 that Constantine issued an edict making Sunday a holiday, making reference to the physical “sun” rather than the “son” of God: In other words, it was NOT issued to honor Christ, but the Sun god, thereby further undermining your erroneous claim.

The edict is as follows, delivered on March 7, 321 AD…………

“All judges, city-people and craftsmen shall rest on the venerable day of the Sun.

(NO mention of Christ, believers, church,or church attendance. Just as a day off from business for EVERYONE, Christian and pagan alike.)

“But countrymen may without hindrance attend to agriculture, since it often happens that this is the most suitable day for sowing grain or planting vines, so that the opportunity afforded by divine providence (Again, if this was targeted to Christians, why no mention of Christ??) may not be lost, for the right season is short.” 7 March 321. CONSTANTINE’S Edict (Cod. Justinianus III xii 3)3

Now Mr Potts………..no more dodging. No more attempts at distraction. Cite for us the Scriptures which contradict the CLEAR teaching of both the Apostles and the Holy Ghost that we are no longer to keep the Law regarding Sabbaths, Festivals, food restrictions, etc., and that the very things you claim are necessary to serve Christ (Sabbath,Festivals, food restrictions) are an UNNECESSARY BURDEN (the precise words used by the Holy Ghost and Apostles).

Also, it is incumbent upon you (in defense of your erroneous claims about Constantine) to cite relevant passages from the early church Fathers that mandate keeping Sabbath rather than Sunday, food restrictions, Festivals, or ANY other aspect of the Law.

We eagerly await your reply. And………if you cannot mount a Biblical/historical defense of your position………..we hope that as a seeker of Truth you will admit as much.

(MN: GarV and readers - I’m betting he ignores all of this [Thanks for the work by the way], then rips another verse out of context and quotes it. In fact, I calculate the odds at 17 to 4 that his next response will be something like “But the law is never going to pass away. We have to obey and comply with the law because only by obeying the law are we able to please God.” If after all you have said, and what little I have presented, he keeps the same argument and doesn’t address the new information [even as he has generally ignored the old], it will be obvious that he is more comfortable in following the teachings of the church leaders he is hooked up with than he is in pursuing the truth. And we shouldn’t expect anything else. Didn’t Peter argue with GOD about the very same thing on the roof top?

However, E. Potts may surprise us all and say “By gosh, you’re right! The stuff I’ve been taight is a bunch of hooie!” He might. But I wouldn’t count on it. )

Melvin, I agree with all you wrote …………and I also don’t believe anyone should be slammed for not making an IMMEDIATE U-Turn. As with you Mel, it was a process for me coming out of a false belief system. It was difficult.

What I DO find objectionable is the maintenance of doctrinal error in the light of objective Truth.

I have great respect for those who read unassailable Truth which contradicts their doctrine, and simply admit “I have no Biblical answer………….but I promise to explore it further until I do, and follow Truth no matter where Truth leads.”

THAT is admirable…………on THAT note I can respect someone as a brother lover of Truth, even though we are not yet in agreement.

Anything less than that, and I must assume that love of other things outweighs love of Truth. Let’s see how it goes……..

(MN: Let’s title this comment “What to Watch for When Talking to an SDA” The last one I spoke with, many years ago, went through the same contortions. But I wanted you to see how far they will twist themselves and Scripture to avoid giving up the idea of justification by works. And it all seems to centered around a false idea that the 10 commandments can justify you as opposed to a maturing Christian will by habit obey the commandment out of love rather than fear. Remember, SDA and the rest work on the basis of fear, not love. )

Dear People,

It is nice to see that the deck is stacked against me. (MN: The deck’s not stacked against you. The scripture you refuse to addrss is. ) Let me first just address this Sabbath Day. First of all, I never said that we had to do Sunday because of Emporer Constantine. The reason that Sunday is the christian day of worship is because of him. In other words, Sunday is considered the christian Sabbath Day because of him. There is nothing holy about Sunday. Ever wondered why it is called “Sun-Day”? It was a day of worship for the “Sun-worshippers”. When Constantine was converted over to christianity, he changed the Lord’s 7th day Sabbath into the 1st day of the week which is Sunday. He ordered all agricultural business to be closed on that day. (MN: Didn’t address my or GaryV’s referenced Scriptures. To remind you: Acts 15:1 - 31; Acts 20:7, 1; Corinthians 16:2; Colossians 2:16-17; Revelation 1:10)

Then again, the Lord himself never even named the days of the week. He only named the “Sabbath Day” and he sanctified it and blessed this day above all the other days. It is obvious that I am dealing with New Testament Christians here. And that is fine. There is nothing wrong with the New Testament. But you must have the foundation in order to understand the New covenant. It is your belief that the law is no more. Ok, lets use you for an example truthofgod. You are telling me that all that I have to do is confess that I love god and have faith in god. Also, I must love my neighbor.

Thats cool, but what if I confess that I love you as a brother, and as soon as you turn your back on me, I go and commit adultery with your wife or I steal your money. Would I not then be breaking God’s law that says ” Thou shalt not commit adultery? Or Thou shalt not steal? If I do these things to you, you would consider me a sinner, yet you are telling me that all I have to do is have faith and love? Look at what Jesus said to the scribes and Pharisees in Matthew 15:1-9. He is calling them hypocrites. Then he quoted what Isaiah said in the 29th chapter of Isaiah. Notice he is saying that these people draw near him with their mouth and honor him with their lips, but their heart is far from him. And they worship him in “Vain”, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. (MN: Notice how he moves further from the issue here. Again he continues to talk over and ignore responses we gave previously. In order to “prove” himself right, he has to continue to make me say things I have not said and ignore things I have said. )

(MN: Please notice that from this point on he does not address any of the references provided earlier. He stays with what he presented earlier and basically repeats his argument, taking more scriptures out of context, adding a reference in James. But the most important thing to notice is that he DOES NOT ADDRESS THE REFERENCES PRESENTED. It’s as though they don’t exist. )

The same thing that you all are saying about God’s Laws, is the same thing that every Sunday Christian says about God’s laws. “We are not subject to it”. Take a look at what this same Paul said about people who are subject to God’s law. Read Romans 8:6-7. He is saying that a carnal minded person is enmity against God, because they are not subject to the LAW of God, neither indeed can be. Then again, let me mention again what Peter said about Pauls writing. Go to 2nd Peter 3:14-16. Peter is warning us about Pauls writing and letting us know that some of his writing is hard to be understood. So if you dont be carefull with his writing, you could twist Pauls writing, like other scriptures to your own hurt. (MN: Does anybody else not see that Paul is explaining the very nature of the unsaved? That we can’t be justified by the law because, in effect we don’t want to be justified by it? This little section even talks about the requirements of the law being met by Jesus’ death [Rom 8:3]. Again, it has nothing to do with our justification by the law. Quite the contrary. Again, notice how he zeroes in on a single verse, no context, and makes it say what he wants it to say. )

None of you have considered this though. I mentioned that the bible says in more than one place that ” In the mouth of 2 or more witnesses is a thing established. Yet all that you all are giving me is the writings of Paul. (MN: Again he ignores the references. We also provided several references from Acts with Peter, James, and several others speaking. Yet he does not address these at all. Instead, he attempts to muddy up the water a bit and pursue his argument as though nothing was said. ) Lets see what James said about the law. Go to James 2:8-13. The he said that if you fulfill the Royal Law, then you do well. He also said the if you keep the whole law and offend in one point, then you are a transgressor of the law. Because the same God that said ” thou shalt not commit adultery is the same God that said thou shalt not kill. He is the same God that said do not covet, and he also said remember the Sabbath Day to keep it holy. He said in Exodus 31:12-13 that the sabbath is a sign between him and his people throughout their generations that they may know that I am the lord that do sanctify you. Can any one of you “Bible professionals” tell me what the sign is that the sabbath day represents? (MN: I’m not a Bible PRofessional, but no problem. Look in Hebrews and you will see that the Sabbth was a type, a representation of the the rest we now have in Christ. Specifically the writer of Hebrews is trying to convince the former JEws that they do not need to observe the Sabbath. He says in 4:9, 10 that “There remains therefore a sabbath rest for the people of God. For the one who has entered His rest has himslef also rested from his works, as GOd did from His. Let us therefore be diligent to ennter that rest, lest anyone fall through following sme example of disobedience.” Again, the Sabbath was a type, pointing to the rest we have in Christ. ) I will let you all mess this up also.

I bet none of you realize that the Lord’s Sabbath Day represents something that’s to come in the future. I know that Paul and a lot of other people did good deed on Sunday, but there is no reference in the bible that it was changed to Sunday. (MN: Again, Notice that he doesn’t really address the argument. Not once have I said the Sabbath was moved to Sunday. My position is that the Sabbath is not longer applicable. It has fulfilled its function. He quickly and casually brushes it aside. And he never clearly addresses his previous statement about Constantine. Additionally, he goes on to muddy the water on the issue of the names of days. Part of his defense it that Sunday was named for the Sun god and that God never named the days. HE seems to over look that our argument from Scripture is couched in terms of the First day of the week, WHICH WE NOW KNOW AS SUNDAY.) I have a Encyclopedia reference here for all of you who think that my information is bogus. This is Funk and Wagnalls New Encyclopedia copywrited in 1973, Volume 22, pg.316. (MN: Why is it when people can’t demonstrate their view from scripture they almost immediately appeal to some modern document that has nothing to do with Scripture? )
Sunday: first day of the week, derived from the Roman holiday dies solis, meaning “sun’s day.” and observed by most Christians as a holy day in honor of the resurrection of Christ. The Roman emperor Constantine I (q.v.) made dies solis an official, legal holiday. Since the 4th century, ecclesiastical and civil legislation have limited work on Sunday, and Christians have traditionally attend religious services. In the United States, laws limiting business activity and amusements on Sundays have become known as blue laws.

This is one of the many references that I have on Sunday (MN: But it has nothing to do with the Bible and doesn’t address any of the references FROM THE BIBLE we have presented. Again readers, take note that E. Potts has consistently refusee to address Scripture with Scripture taken in context. An excellent xample of that technique is coming up. ) Lets take a look at Acts 24:10-16. Notice that Paul is saying in verse 14 that the things that he does is called heresy, but he still worships the God of his fathers BELIEVING ALL THINGS WHICH ARE WRITTEN IN THE LAW AND IN THE PROPHETS. And keeping a conscience void of offense toward God and toward men. (MN: Believing something is not the same as doing something . Though Paul believed God ordained the sacrificial system, that in no way implies he participated in the systme once he became a Christian. It in no way means he encouraged people to be circumcised. Quite the contrary according to Galatians and Hebrews, written by another writer. Again E. Potts forces a meaning into the text that is not there in order to bolster his doctrine. But I suspect this is what E. Potts has been taught for years and he’s not going to drop it immediately. )

Now, if I were unlearned, and I was reading Pauls writing, it would look like to me that Paul is saying in some places that the law is good , and in other places he is saying that we dont have to keep the law. (MN: No I wouldn’t. )Therefore making himself a hypocrite. Lets take a look at the most famous place that people like to go to and do away with Gods law. Galatians 3. And lets pick it up at verse 10.

It says” For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is everyone that CONTINUETH NOT IN ALL THINGS WHICH ARE WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF THE LAW TO DO THEM”. If I were unlearned, it would look like to me that he is saying that if I am under the law, I am under the curse, but also I am cursed if I dont continue in the things WRITTEN in the law to do them. (MN: Notice here that E. Potts carefully picked a single verse and went no further. HAd he gone furhter he would also have had to include vs 11 which further expands on 10. To attempt justification by the law is to be cursed. The law does not justify. It only condemns. The just live by faith in the comleted work of Christ - Abraham had faith in God’s promise of Chrst. Notice how carefully E. Potts present Scriptue, surgically rejecting those that weaken his argument and twisting the one which seem to bolster it. )

Can anyone of you brilliant scholars address this please. What about Romans 2: 12-13. He is saying that the people who have sinned w/out the law shall perish w/out the law. And the people who have sinned w/ the law shall be judged by the law. (MN: No problem. Again he is talking the unsaved here. The very next chapter makes it clear that we are justified not by the law but by faith. Two different sets. ) For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the DOERS OF THE LAW SHALL BE JUSTIFIED. Then he turns and says in Romans 3:20 that by the deeds of the law,shall no flesh be justified.

(MN: Ladies and gentlemen, you may want to decide whether of not to read the rest of his rant. He continues to pull verses out of context using them only because they have the word Law in them.

Also in verse 28 he says that we can conclude that a man is justified by faith w/out the deeds of the law. Then he says in verse 31 that we dont make void the law through our faith, but we establish the law. I am confused. (MN: I noticed. )Can one of you brilliant scholors address this for me??

Again, in Romans 6:14-15, he says that we are not under the law, we are under grace. And then he says,” shall we sin because we are not under the law but under grace? God forbid. And this goes back to my question that none of you brilliant people have addressed. WHAT IS SIN?? If you read IJohn 3:4, you will see that sin is the TRANSGRESSION OF THE LAW. So in essence, in Roman 6:14, Paul is telling me that I am not under the law, but still, dont break the law. Can one of you smart, intelligent scholors address this for me. Everyone wants to go and hide behind faith, lets see what Paul said about faith. Romans 10:8-9. He is letting you know that he is preaching from the word of faith and that if you confess with your and believe that Jesus rose from the dead, you shall be saved. Again, in verse 13 he says that who calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved. But this takes some qualifications. Because the devils believe that Jesus is the son of God and they tremble. The qualification comes in verses14-16. Then he says in verse 17 it says” Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. So your faith is not some good fealing or some feminine emotion. Real faith is based on the true word of God. Also check James 2:14-26. I want you all to read through this carefully. VERY CAREFULLY! He is letting you know that FAITH w/out WORKS IS DEAD. (MN: Sure. If there are no works after a supposed confession of faith, it is very likely the confession was meaningless. I’m not saved because I keep the law. I seek to be conformed to the image of Christ because I am saved. The law is simply a reflection of that character. It is no longer a task master. )

Then as you read through the rest of this, check out verse 24. He is saying that you are justified by works (MN: Before other men, not before God ) , and not faith alone. WAIT A MINUTE. Didn’t Paul say in Romans 3:28 that a man is justified by faith w/out the deeds of the law?? I am very confused now. I beg any of you to please give me some clarity here. I am losing my mind. If I were unlearned, it would look like to me that the book is saying one thing in one place, but it is saying something different in another place. (MN: So instead of starting with faith as a basis of salvation, you choose a works-based salvation. Interesting. ) I can go on and on and on. But unfortunately, the 1st day of the week is my football day. So I will only address a few more things. Lets check out Acts 13th chapter. Read through it and see that he and Barnabas was preaching to the people. Notice in verse 42 that it said that the Gentiles loved what they heard so much, that they wanted these same words preached to them THE NEXT SABBATH. Not the next day which would have been Sun-Day. Check verse 44. The NEXT SABBATH DAY, almost the whole city came to hear the word of God. But who was it that got jealous and spake against them for teaching the truth, THATS RIGHT,,JEWS. Their own people spoke against them for teaching the truth ( Wait, this sounds similar to what I am experiencing now on this site. Wow, I guess I can count this all joy.) But listen to the message that paul left his people with. Check verse 46. But look at what happened as a result of all of this. Look at verses 50-52. I guess this is what I will do now. My lord and saviour Jesus said it best. Matthew 10:14-15. ( Hey LULU, what will they think of next? LOL).

(MN: Notice that E. Potts did exaclty as I predicted. He did not address the references we responded with. He did, however make the same argument using Scripture ripped out of context. Ladies and gentlemen, I hope you have learned a little something from this. By the way, I believe E. Potts is a Seventh Day Adventist. It seems I’m getting a whole new set of folks visiting and commenting on the site. Talk about a missionary field at my door. Wow! )

By the way, who said that I was SDA?? The Seventh Day Adventist are as false as The Sun-Day believers are.

ENOUGH Mr Potts………..either address these verses, which DEMOLISH your arguments, or tell your tale walking………..

“Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:
But that we write unto them, that they abstain from (Here it comes Mr Potts………here are ALL THE LAWS we are obliged to keep as Christians)(1) pollutions of idols, and [from](2) fornication, and (3)[from] things strangled, and (4) [from] blood.

(THAT”S IT MR POTTS. Notice what is NOT written as necessary to walk in Christ. Sabbath. Food restrictions (gotta have me some pork).Jewish Festivals. Apparently, the Apostles are against you as well…………what hope have you now??)

And this one as well, Mr Potts………

“For it seemed good to the HOLY GHOST (UH OH Mr Potts, is the Holy Ghost…………Author of the Law, BTW……..wrong too??) and to US (The Apostles who heard the commands of the Risen Christ), to lay upon you (the Gentile Christians) NO GREATER BURDEN than these NECESSARY things (In other words, anything OTHER than what comes next is an UNNECESSARY burden to a walk with Christ, according to THE HOLY GHOST and those who talked with the RISEN CHRIST. READY?!?!?!);
That ye abstain from meats offered to idols (NO restrictions on ANY meats EXCEPT what is offered to idols), and from blood (Popular pagan rites), and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye (Christians) keep yourselves, YE SHALL DO WELL. Fare ye well.

PERIOD.

ANSWER THE VERSES……….the Bible SPECIFICALLY calls those who teach what you proclaim to be “SUBVERTERS OF SOULS”.

What do you think of the Bible’s own definition of you, Mr Potts?? You are a SUBVERTER OF SOULS. Does that not bother you?? Do you not care??Why do you not fall on your face and repent?? Does this not fill you with DREAD?!?!?!?

You also wrote THIS……..

(Mr Potts wrote…) “Lets me make something clear. First of all, I never said that Sunday is the sabbath. I know that the Lord’s Sabbath day is on the 7th day of the week which we know as Saturday. The reason that Sunday is the christian day of worship now has nothing to do with God at all. It has something to do with the Roman emperor constantine.

You get my point, so do your research from there.”

(Gary) I DID the research, Mr Potts.And thereby proved your assertion FALSE. Constantine had NOTHING to do with Christian worship on Sunday, since it predated him by CENTURIES. Not to mention that the edict he put forth HAD NOTHING TO DO with either Christ, the church, or worship days. It honored the Sun god. Those are CONSTANTINE’S OWN WORDS.

Not that I expect you to accept that clear testimony, since you do not even accept the testimony of Scripture, or of the Holy Ghost, or of the Apostles, that you are a SUBVERTER OF SOULS.

I gave you sources as early as the 70s AD that prove the church practice was Sunday worship. 70 AD is only 4 years after Paul was beheaded……….also before Peter was crucified…….and over TWO DECADES before the Apostle John died.

Again, I demand you give me corrollary evidence from the early church’s VOLUMINOUS writings that contradict this overwhelming testimony of Sunday worship.

You were given testimony DIRECTLY FROM THE BOOK OF ACTS that explicitly states that Chrisitians ARE NOT BOUND TO KEEP THE LAW.

Yet…………you persist. You simply ignore anything that proves you wrong. And make NO mistake……….you HAVE been proven wrong by Scripture and history.What is worse……..you KNOW that you cannot wiggle your way out of this mess, so you simply ignore it.

You’re not fooling anyone except yourself. That is ultimately what deception is………..no one is deceived who desires the Truth. Those who are deceived are in that state because they love to be deceived.

You Sir, according to Holy Scripture……and I hope I’m not too redundant here……..are a subverter of souls. How are you different from the “ministers” we feature here who ALSO purposely ignore the plain teaching of both Scripture and history??

I await your refutation of the salient points. Quit dodging. Another post that ignores what you plainly cannot refute should be summarily dismissed by this entire body of believers.

Explain the verses in Acts 15 that DESTROY your doctrine by explicitly stating that Christians ARE NOT BOUND TO THE MOSAIC LAW.

Explain how you are NOT a subverter of souls according to the definition given by the Holy Ghost and the Apostles, when they defined these subverters as those who seek to put Christians under the Mosaic Law………Just as YOU do.

Explain why there are NO mentions of Sabbath-keeping in ANY of the early church writings except to DENY Sabbath-keeping (as well as festival-keeping and food abstention )for Christians.

Explain how Constantine’s 321 AD edict, addressed to the worship of the Sun god NOT CHRIST OR CHRISTIANS, instituted Sunday worship. I’ve given MULTIPLE sources PRIOR to 321 who testify that the church met on SUNDAY……….that the church DID NOT keep the Sabbath……….DID NOT keep the festivals………DID NOT abstain from foods…..DID NOT keep the Mosaic Law……..ALL PRIOR TO CONSTANTINE’S EDICT.

Dazzle us, Mr Potts………..

If we are false believers, it should be no problem for you to ANSWER THE SALIENT POINTS IN MY POST.

If you cannot do so, does it not then follow course (by your own logic) that YOU SIR are the one who is false??

Put up, or shut up, Mr Potts. We are waiting………

(MN: Notice again that E. Potts blows right past the actual issues and starts throwing all kinds of noise out there. BUT HE STILL HAS NOT ADDRESSED THE INITIAL ISSUES no matter how much he natters on. )
By the way also, let me make this fact known. JESUS DID NOT RISE ON THE FIRST DAY OF THE WEEK. Those of you with understand should know that according to God, a day begins at evening or at sundown, and it ends at evening or at sundown the next day. Example, when the sun went down Saturday, that signified the begining of a new day which is the 1st day of the week. When the sun goes down on Sunday, that ends the 1st day of the week and starts the 2nd day of the week etc……..If you read St. John 20:1, you will see that Mary went down to the sepulchre on the 1st day of the week WHILE IT WAS YET DARK. And when she looked into the sepulchre, she saw that Jesus was not there, because he had already risen. Now, to them who has a ear to hear, let them hear this. Take a look at Matthew 12:38-40. These people wanted to see a sign from Jesus that he was the Christ. He said that an evil and an adulterous generation seeks a sign, and no sign shall be given unto them, except the sign of the prophets Jonas: For as Jonas was in the grave THREE DAYS AND THREE NIGHTS, so will the son of man be THREE DAYS AND THREE NIGHTS IN THE HEART OF THE EARTH. Jesus is letting you know that he was going to be crucified and be in the grave for three days and three nights. Now, the average christian believes that Jesus died on “Good Friday” and he rose on Easter “Sun-Day” morning. I challenge anybody on this planet to get me THREE DAYS AND THREE NIGHTS from “Good Friday” to Easter “Sun-Day” morning. If you can do this, and convince me and everybody else that is looking at this, that you can get THREE DAYS AND THREE NIGHTS from “Good Friday” to Easter Sun-Day morning, then I will bag down. I want you to take as much time as you need and use what ever type of math you need to use. Also, if you can get THREE DAYS AND THREE NIGHTS from “Good Friday” to Easter “Sun-Day” morning, this will signify that Sun-Day is the Lord’s day. On your mark!! Get set!! GO!!!( Hey LULU, I hope you are seeing this)

(MN: I hope she’s not seeing it. I’d be embarrassed if I were you. )

E. Potts, how about addressing the issues and not all the peripherals. Or are you not able to do so?

That’s another fascinating dodge there, Mr Potts. Just scintillating. Really………

I doubt anyone even notices that you are attempting to buy time in a desperate bid to find a website or elder who can help you.

Th