Just in case some of you out there still want to say Cashflow doesn’t preach a prosperity gospel, take a look at this interview he gave down in Atlanta. It’s most interesting.
Notice who he said his mentors are.
And those of you who insist the pictures I published a couple of weeks ago aren’t from his house, pay close attention at about 1:30 into the tape. You will see the very same pictures I displayed.
Even Al Sharpton recognizes a scam when he sees one.
Remember - These people don’t care jack about you. You are a market to them. You are a way for them to live high on the hog while you scrabble for a living and try to look prosperous. Turn you backs on these people and trust God to do as He has said He will in His word.
Thanks to Calvin, Illiminated1, and S. Webb.
When Al Sharpton of all people makes a comment that you are exploiting Jesus, then we know Creflo has gone too far. I found a few of Creflo’s comments interesting.
1. He would sell his house for three Million.(he might have been joking though. So that IS his house afterall)
2. He believe Jesus was rich only because he had a treasurer(Don’t most social clubs have treasurers?)
3. He needed a jet because the airlines can’t meet HIS(emphasis on “his”) schedule. (So now God will call you to go somewhere and the airlines can stop it? Faith huh?)
4. You don’t turn down a gift that someone gives you? (hmm, what if it was given with the wrong motives?)Does anyone else in his church have needs? Are they being met? What about when Jesus said when you have done it to the “LEAST” of my bretheren you have done it to me. Goes back to giving with the right motive.)
5. He stopped taking a salary and give money back to the church. Now, if I am correct(and someone correct me if I am wrong) if you stop taking a salary and depend solely on offerings, there can be no cap on your salary as it is all tax free anyway. I believe Osteen practices this also.
On a side note: They showed all the good things that he was doing in the community and Creflo said as long as you can see lives changed, it’s all worth it. Well, don’t most “religious” organizations do this also? Does not the world do some of the same things? Does not even the government have “programs” to help change lives?
And what is the reason they listed for people going to this church? BECAUSE OF PROSPERITY!! They feel they could get their hands on some money. You see Melvin, I work at one of the major utilies companies in my city and I speak to customers all day and wherever there is a handout or money handed out, People flock to it. They flock to it to so quickly that the real people who need it(the elderly) cannot get funded because those young kids who refuse to work and are on “disability” run and it get these funds for themselve on a (get this) MONTH TO MONTH BASIS. I have seen where some call in and have 2 or three agencies paying their bills. It is sad that where a handout or free meal ticket is offered, people flock to it. Even it it was a “rumor” that someone is giving out money or paying a bill, people flock to it. This is all too sad.
Brother, i would be very cearful of the words I say about things you do not understand.
you stand on the side line commenting, just like the priests did when Jesus was being crusifyied.
The Dr. will not fight his battel but, El’Shabowat will fight for him, you must know that what you say about the Dr., he will still love you. And God loves you, and I also love you.
Shalom from P.N.G
Dolt (as the Minister of Monikers, consider yourself appropriately dubbed), are you going to address the BIBLICAL issues with “DR” (he’s NO doctor BTW……..I doubt he can spell any better than you.) Cashflo??
NAH……….you’re just going to write barely legible drivel without addressing the Bible because you’re ignorant of Scripture (as evidenced by your liplock on Cashflo’s posterior).
Ah well…………BTW, the Spirit tells me to tell you that English 101 and and Bible study are not the unpardonable sins.
holt sounds Borgish to me.
DAAAAAAAAAAAAAA BORG
Al wrote……..
“When Al Sharpton of all people makes a comment that you are exploiting Jesus, then we know Creflo has gone too far.”
Al, I couldn’t agree more.Al Sharpton was absolutely INDIGNANT. He would NEVER exploit Jesus for money.
After all, that’s what black folks are for……….exploiting for money. Ain’t that right Mr Sharpton??
Al Sharpton is a false prophet too. I have never heard him acknowlede God any any form.
He’s a joke.
Al Sharpton claims the same “god” and “christ” as the folks in the cult of Joseph Smith Junior, Mormons.
The Mormon “christ”:
My Christ, the TRUE Christ, existed before Smith made that garbage up in his twisted head, or I should say, received the lie direct from Satan….
Regarding Satan, Smith claimed (and Mormons believe) that Satan is the brother of Jesus. Typical case of Satan trying to put himself on the level of God and Mormons fall for the lie. The words ONLY BEGOTTEN SON just don’t register properly with Mormons.
And does Sharpton know that Mormon cult founder Joseph Smith Junior had a Black female lifelong
slaveservant, that was even dedicated to him, to be hisslaveservant in the “afterlife”?I could go on about that cult (all night), but I’ll stop there.
Long time no post Melly Mel.
Just wanted to chime in on what Al said and what I also noticed in the clip. Al Sharpton saying Creflo is wrong in his dealings with prosperity is like a live viewing of the pot calling the kettle black.
Another thing, Creflo said that as long as lives are being changed, its all worth it. Stating in himself that the ends justifies the means; biblical or not.
Just so sad to see, but the more I see these kinds of things the more I am convinced these people want to be fooled and willingly hand their brains over. If the world who is Lost can see the error in this, there is no other explaination why these so called ’saints’ cant.
Common sense is dead.
(MN: But greed is alive and well. )
Hi Czarina!!!!!! Welcome back!!
GaryV, I can see your spirit as a FAT SLOB that gets his cicks out of “floging a dead horse”(Bro this is a spiritual thing) when you be come a born again this spirit will depart from you and wonder through out the dry and desolate land.
The darkness can only attack the light, but we know that when you turn the light on the darkness dissapears, so why dont you come to the light.
bless you Brother.
Shalom from P.N.G
I wonder when the “spirit” you’re under is going to teach you how to spell and use proper grammar.
I notice you don’t reference the Bible in my posts. That’s typical. You can’t debate what you don’t know, and the fact that you don’t know the Bible says everything we need said about YOUR “spirit”.
I just love the ignorant……….whenever the Circus isn’t in town, they give us something to chuckle over.
Gary V,
First, this guy curses you out and then he close with bless you brother. Wow, that’s confusing. I know that was an ignorant statement but I’m trying to hold my laugh.
I lived in ATL and was amazed by the prosperity of blacks in the city and just the overwhelming black first impression it gives. After a couple of years of getting the BS full time, I realized that guys like Creflo take advantage of the natural spirtualism of our people and use it to thier advantage. Creflo is a prime example of it and it puts a ugly cloud over a beautiful city and a beautiful people…
Hello, “Caponese”:
Please excuse me if I am not clear on the point you are making. (The ellipsis subsequent to “people” prevents any clarification to your post, I think.)
Nevertheless, I have a question: What do you mean by the “natural spirtualism (sic) of our people.”?
Thank you.
And let’s pray that the Father allows Mr. Dollar to repent of his sins: ” . . . if perhaps God may grant them (here, Mr. Dollar) repentance leading to the knowledge of the truth, and they (Mr. Dollar) may come to their (his)
senses and escape from the snare of the devil, having been held captive by him to do his will.” -
2 Timothy 2:25b-26.
“Natural spiritualism” = “Godlessness”. We “naturally” have only a spiritualism that counts God an enemy.
So Creflo didn’t support Al’s presidential campaign? (joke)
I find Al’s comments odd, I mean he supports Bernard ” a dollar a day keeps the devil away” Jordan.
So should Al’s comments be viewed through the broken clock theory?
I forgot all about that. He DOES support Bernard Jordan doesn’t he. What a joke.
Curious….In regards to Creflos’ statement that God desires all individuals to be rich or even other statements said by him in the past that God needs all Christians to be millionaires or to have/pursue much in material wealth to glorify Him, what then are Christians to make of situations where Jesus seemed to teach on how both having and pursuing great wealth can often be a hindrance to following Him? What to make of the various things He stated that seem to indicate that wealth is not necessarily an indicator of approval from God or a right realtionship with the Lord or even a reason to feel secure in one’s slavation? What to make of the many teachings He gave on the dangers of materialism (again, not talking about wealth/money in and of itself but rather of seeking it solely/moreso than the Lord and, for that matter, trying to make the pursuit of it equal with Him)?
For example, consider Luke 12:13-21:
The Parable of the Rich Fool
13Someone in the crowd said to him, “Teacher, tell my brother to divide the inheritance with me.”
14Jesus replied, “Man, who appointed me a judge or an arbiter between you?” 15Then he said to them, “Watch out! Be on your guard against all kinds of greed; a man’s life does not consist in the abundance of his possessions.”
16And he told them this parable: “The ground of a certain rich man produced a good crop. 17He thought to himself, ‘What shall I do? I have no place to store my crops.’
18″Then he said, ‘This is what I’ll do. I will tear down my barns and build bigger ones, and there I will store all my grain and my goods. 19And I’ll say to myself, “You have plenty of good things laid up for many years. Take life easy; eat, drink and be merry.” ‘
20″But God said to him, ‘You fool! This very night your life will be demanded from you. Then who will get what you have prepared for yourself?’
21″This is how it will be with anyone who stores up things for himself but is not rich toward God.”
It’s worth noting, by the way, that prior to this passage Jesus was discussing the issue of how costly but worth it was to follow/acknowledge Him above all and He showed the importance of avoiding the attitudes of the Pharisees (Luke 12:1-12…specifically hypocrisy–seeking respectabiliy/image/status but never dealing with sin…blatantly condoning things contrary to what God has said and trying to serve Him or appear good while having hearts far from God and blatantly ignoring the fact that sin, seeing that the Pharisees who were power-hungry and loved money like Luke 16:14 says, left undealt with rises up like yeast and will deal with you later!). Also, afterward Jesus discussed the importance of seeking after Him and His kingdom first rather than worrying/placing primary emphasis on the material things that those without God place their security in since the Lord takes care of the buisness (needs) of those who are about His buisness (work/will)(Luke 12:22-34) and Jesus also discussed the importance of living one’s life in light of His return, using one’s resources in service to Him always, not seeking one’s own immediate comfort at the expense of His long-range pleasure and remembering that one’s reward isn’t found necessirarly in this life (Luke 12:35-48).
Continuing, with the story of the rich fool, consider how Jesus dealt with the person coming Him believing that getting his inheritance or a sum of wealth was the only issue of real weight to be dealt with. Did Jesus ignore the fact that money was an issue? Did Jesus say that the brother unwilling to share his half of the inheritance was wrong or unimportant? No! Yet, although the man’s finacial state was an issue to be dealt with, how interesting is it that He did not focus soley on that as if solving was the cure! His response while not dealing directly with the issue pointed to a greater one, which was having the right mentality toward gaining great wealth. Like Jesus makes clear, of greater importance than what we have in our hands in having the hands of God in our lives…having a right relationship with Him? What was more important…this man’s financial situation being solved first or dealing with wrong motives behind his concern for it and exposing faulty mentality toward how he viewed what he had?
Did Jesus ever say that the good life had everything or even anything to do with being “loaded”? Did He not make clear that to plan solely for enriching oneself in this life and in materialistic terms while not seeking to enrich (prepare) oneself in matters pertaining to eternity will leave you still bankrupt in the eyes of God when He comes to “collect” on what He requires of us?
Should we be more concerned with our own goals in life first or rather should we use our what we have been given, be it alot or a little, for His kingdom first? (to note, one does not need great wealth to be of imprtance or value in impacting many for God…it only took one boy being willing to trust Jesus and give the little loaves of bread/fish he had to Jesus, and did He not make what little than nothing into more than enough?! -John 6: 1-15-). Is it not more important to stock up on things like feeding the homeless/clothing the naked and lifting up those in bondage to Him…acts of mercy/service not depending on wealth/ability or intelligence but on love for Him and care for your neighbor and for that matter things which He said truly touch His heart and were of eternal weight/remembrance (Matthew 25:31- 46), or should we seek to live by focusing on and stocking up on cars, houses, clothes in style, gadgets/widgets , pusuing image/bling and seeking to “get rich or die tryin’n”…basically having a “preoccupation with “gratifying physical and desires” instead of yielding one’s desires to Gods’ dominion, “craving and accumulting things” while never evaluating the true substance behind them, and being obsessed with one’s status or importance” rather than being moreso concerned with how to reflect God’s charachter and image like we were created to do….all of which are the mindset of those living for the world and not God ( 1 John 2:15-17)….a mindset opposed to Him and thus anything having to do with loving/blessing Him…something we should avoid lest one make himself an enemy to Him (James 4:4)…a mindset that will hinder anyone from ever loving God…..the same mindset that the devil tempted and bought Adam/Eve with (Genesis 3) and the very same mindset that he came against Jesus with, who repeatedly resisted while in the desert being tempted and troughout His entire life on Earth (ex. Matthew 4 and 16:24, Luke 22: 39-46, Phillipians 2:15 and on, etc)
Not to say that saving money or seeking to learn principals in managing money properly is unimportant, for the Word of God already adresses those things in abundance (Look all throughourt the book of Proverbs with all of the wis principals it gives concening handling what you have like Proverbs 10:4, 12:24 and 27, 13:4 22 or 21:10, for example) and that’s part of answering the call of being a good steward instead of a foolish one with God’s resources (Matthew 25:14-30)…How can one handle what they have to the best of their ability apart from proper/biblical training to hone that ability? However, on the other hand, if our motive is anything apart from gloryfying Jesus and managing wealth in ways pleasing to Him while doing so with hearts devoted to Him and effectively preaching the Gospel of Christ, for what gain do we do so?
You have quoted all the right scriptures, BUT!! Did you know that the devel also quoted scriptures, and you all commenting on the Dr. wealth, do you know that the outside is the manifestation of the spiritual????
you all should get your spiritual life in order before commenting on others, may be you could be as rich as him self, those that are in need are not in need of money but of the WORD of God, Everybody is like the lame beggar, and the Dr. is like the two deciples, who said to the lame beggar, ” silver and gold we have none but as for what we have we give, in Jesus name arise”, the beggar then jumped up and praised God, when I read all your comments I think of a scripture in Romans 3:11-20, get the log out of your eye before taking the speck out of your brothers eye.
thank you.
Shalom from P.N.G
This guy is total borg!
The devil quoted the wrong scriptures. By his own admission the right scriptures have been quoted to counter Creflo’s garbage.
Maybe Borg-Holt will tell us with of the apostles retained vast earthly wealth and road in the biblical equivalent of a Rolls-Royce? Oh that’s right, silver and gold had they NONE!
Holt, you posted this nonsense……….
(Holt)You have quoted all the right scriptures (GV-more than Cashflo has ever done), BUT!! Did you know that the devel (SIGH) also quoted scriptures,
(GV) Yes…………but the “devel” quoted them OUT OF CONTEXT (like Cashflo). Please prove that the Scriptures quoted HERE are out of context, or you really have no point.
(Holt) and you all commenting on the Dr. wealth, do you know that the outside is the manifestation of the spiritual????
(GV) REALLY?!?!? WoW!!! That’s some profound Crefloism right there!! Well done!!
Errrrrrr………was Paul’s “inside” manifesting when he was being whipped?? How about when he was in prison?? When he went without material goods like food and shelter and clothing?? How about when he was beheaded?? Shipwrecked?? Was that Paul’s lack of faith on the “inside” manifesting too??
Poor Paul………if only he knew Christ as well as you and Cashflo, he coulda been RICH (well, Cashflo is rich, folks like you aren’t.But HOLD ON………this is your year of INCREASE :lol:)!!
(Holt)you all should get your spiritual life in order before commenting on others, may be you could be as rich as him self, those that are in need are not in need of money but of the WORD of God,
(GV) REALLY?? Are YOU as rich as Cashflo?? C’mon , LIE about it for me. Here’s the REAL secret to prosperity………..find a bunch of Biblical illiterates, mangle the Bible to justify getting them to send you their cash, and VOILA!!! PROSPERITY!!
(Holt)Everybody is like the lame beggar, and the Dr. is like the two deciples , who said to the lame beggar, ” silver and gold we have none but as for what we have we give, in Jesus name arise”, the beggar then jumped up and praised God,
(GV) Ever seen Cashflo heal a lame man?? Blind man?? The heartbreak of psoriasis?? Even a wart??No……….
In fact, Cashflo couldn’t say “Silver and Gold have I none” either, because he has sheeple like you sending him silver and gold all the time.
Know what Cashflo would have done??? He would have reprimanded the lame man for his lack of faith, sold him a book, a tape set, and a vial of miracle tap water, and convinced him to start tithing to World Changers. Then when the poor guy STILL wasn’t healed, Cashflo would tell him his “breakthrough” was right around the corner………for a small donation.
(Holt) when I read all your comments I think of a scripture in Romans 3:11-20, get the log out of your eye before taking the speck out of your brothers eye.
(GV) What “speck”?? Following the Biblical admonition to point out false teachers?? Warning ignorant or wandering sheeple as watchmen like the Bible commands?? Using Scripture in context?? Please………you must have logs in BOTH eyes to not see through this huckster. Perhaps that is what hinders your Bible study as well.
thank you.
Shalom from P.N.G
(GV) NO, thank YOU!!! We haven’t had a good solid Borg on here for a while. You get to be exhibit “A”.
In connection to the previous statement made:
Consider Luke 16: 19-31
The Rich Man and Lazarus
19″There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day. 20At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores 21and longing to eat what fell from the rich man’s table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores.
22″The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham’s side. The rich man also died and was buried. 23In hell,[a] where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. 24So he called to him, ‘Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.’
25″But Abraham replied, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. 26And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.’
27″He answered, ‘Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my father’s house, 28for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.’
29″Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.’
30″ ‘No, father Abraham,’ he said, ‘but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.’
31″He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.’ ”
If wealth was a necessary pre-requiset to pleasing God, then bump what Jesus said when He said this to the Pharisees( Note: According to my Life Application Study Bible, “the Pharisees considered wealth to be a proof of a persons’ righteousness…and Jesus startled them with this story where a diseased beggar is rewarded and a rich man is punished.”…how revelant is this story in light of the belief that wealth, though often a way God blesses, isn’t an automatic indicator that with our actions God is blessed). Did this man go to hell because of his wealth? Although Jesus made clear that that wasn’t the case, did He not clearly convey that rather he went to hell because of his heart atitude toward the Lord? Was it not also becaus of his selfishness/greed and the way in which the blessings he possessed were managed, as seen in extreme regard for his own comfort and great lack of concern for Lazarus’s welfare and refusing to feed him or take care of him and exalting himself rather than seeking to serve? Whether the rich man had little or medium or a bunch, what mattered was his entire attitude toward it. How did the rich man use the amount of money he had that was given to him? Was it in investing and Using it to bless others and advance God’s Kingdom or hoarding the majority of it out of greed for himself first and giving what’s left over? (similar to what Luke 12:13-21 conveys). Although Lazarus was poor, did he not have true security with the Lord because he did not seek his own comfort or seek to receive his reward (satisfaction) in this life or this world’s terms?
What to make of Luke 18:18-30?
Luke 18:18-30
The Rich Ruler
18A certain ruler asked him, “Good teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?”
19″Why do you call me good?” Jesus answered. “No one is good–except God alone. 20You know the commandments: ‘Do not commit adultery, do not murder, do not steal, do not give false testimony, honor your father and mother.’[a]”
21″All these I have kept since I was a boy,” he said.
22When Jesus heard this, he said to him, “You still lack one thing. Sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”
23When he heard this, he became very sad, because he was a man of great wealth. 24Jesus looked at him and said, “How hard it is for the rich to enter the kingdom of God! 25Indeed, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.”
26Those who heard this asked, “Who then can be saved?”
27Jesus replied, “What is impossible with men is possible with God.”
28Peter said to him, “We have left all we had to follow you!”
29″I tell you the truth,” Jesus said to them, “no one who has left home or wife or brothers or parents or children for the sake of the kingdom of God 30will fail to receive many times as much in this age and, in the age to come, eternal life.”
If wealth was required to follow Jesus and live for Him to the fullest, why did He tell the rich young man to forsake first all he had and give to the poor? Not sayning that possessing wealth is a problem for Christians, but this young man like many others in our day was trying to pursue God and wealth simultaneously. Although he claimed to want to follow God and proclaimed that he’d kept all the commandments, Jesus made clear that he could’nt follow the Lord nor truly loved the Lord because Jesus’s command to sacrifice for the sake of following Him made the man sad and revealed that wealth was his idol…that is, he was willing to give up everything else but status andexhorbent riches…his wealth was what he thought made him who he was and although having wealth wasn’t inherently wrong/evil, it was wrong to want to hold onto it still if God asked of it to be given up… he highly valued/desired what he had and wanted to still try to worship Jesus as well…and that goes against the first and greatest commandment: “Thou shall not have no other God’s (anything you place at the same level as the Lord or that you expend more energy/investment in than Him…anything that you’re willing to withhold at the expense of following Him, as seen in Exodus 20:3). How much do we do like that man today and try to find a way to follow God and satisfy our desires as well, trying to reconcile the two and pretty much seek to give God what He wants while also satisfying what we already had in our minds to pursue..all under the pretense of following the Lord!
Although this rich young man did many other good things, could he ever hope to be a true disciple of Christ as long as pursuing and molding himself after the character/mentality of Christ did not take priority over all else? Even iif he had tried to follow the Lord while pursuing/holding onto wealth at all costs and at the same time, which is really pursuing the Lord falsely since you’re either pursuing Him soley for what you can get while you follow Him or seeking Him hoping to make deals with Him as to what you’re going to hold onto and hoping that He won’t notice or challenge you to sacrifice what’s most precious to Him or not be willing to truly sell out for Him and to be satisfied with Him/His Work if He asked to be all you had, guess what…would not that desire for wealth have kept him from going the distance with Christ? If wealth was the basis for following the Lord, then who’s to say that he would not turn away from the Lord or call God false in some kind of way when wealth disapeers and pressure rose up, since wealth/status/ finances and his own comfort were basis of his security rather than the Lordship/sufficient love of Christ?
Does the example of the rich young man mean that believers should automatically sell all that they own or that those who don’t do so are less “holy” or “spiritually mature than those who do? By no means, for Jesus does not give (at least, from what I’ve studied thus far in the Word) that mandate and ask all believers to sell all they have even though there are some which He in His will desires to do so. In no way am I condoning hoarding/pursuing wealth,but to come against someone wealthy simply because they have it would be arrogance. It seems as if it would be arrogant to presume that I in my poverty (middle class standard or below) automacially can be considered more righteous than someone who is wealthy and seeking to live middle class or above. That, it seems, would be the reverse mentaliy of seeking wealth as means to godliness: that seeking poverty and despising wealth are a way to godliness and God’s standard for glorifying Him! Like the Word says, even in giving of myself, it would mean nothing if I were doing so outside of what the Lord directed me to do (within the boundaries of the Word, of course), or if I did so to prove my own sense of worth and to boost my image of myself in the eyes of others or myself. I could do all kinds of great acts of charity/dedication in the name of the Lord and sacrificing at my own expense and it would still amount to nothing if done outside of genuine love for the Lord and my neighbor
1 Corinthians 13
Love
1If I speak in the tongues[a] of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. 2If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. 3If I give all I possess to the poor and surrender my body to the flames,[b] but have not love, I gain nothing.
4Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.
Again, does following Christ automatically mean that I should give up all that I own? No, for I called to be resposible for my needs and the needs of my family so that I won’t be a burden to the lives of others. Still, I’d need to be willing to give up anything and everything God would ask me to do for serving Him and others. I’d need to always be willing to use money in ways that please Him the way He says He’s pleased, for in maintaining this kind of attitude I won’t be attached too much to what I have and I would’nt use the things I have selfishly. If the basis of my security/worth shifted ftom the Lord/His Gospel to what I possess, then I think it would be best for me to get rid of what I possess so I could maintain proper love for God and not run the risk of getting lost in materialism.
Does anyone have any comments or thoughts?
In connection with what was previously stated:
I know someone is probably tired of me writing by now (my bad) and for that I do apologize. Pray for me, ya’ll, that I’d be able to summarize what I would like to say the right way.
I wanted to clarify something I was trying to say that I don’t think that my last post clarified. It seemed to me that in the end of what I said, although I tried to say that one’s attitude toward one thing is more important than what one has, it seems to me that I may have been advocating that there was no apparent danger in possessing great amounts of
wealth and that it carried no pain along with it. If that is in anyway how I came off, please know that wasn’t my intention.
Although wealth in and of itself is not a bad thing, I do believe it carries with it the capability of killing you! Consideri the splendor of King Solomon (I Kings 10:14-29). I never knew that Solomon set himself up for a fall by amassing huge wealth and horses/charioits in great number. He, like many other kings after him, was actually going agaist God’s commands for a King, as see in Deuteronomy 17:14-20:
The King
14 When you enter the land the LORD your God is giving you and have taken possession of it and settled in it, and you say, “Let us set a king over us like all the nations around us,” 15 be sure to appoint over you the king the LORD your God chooses. He must be from among your own brothers. Do not place a foreigner over you, one who is not a brother Israelite. 16 The king, moreover, must not acquire great numbers of horses for himself or make the people return to Egypt to get more of them, for the LORD has told you, “You are not to go back that way again.” 17 He must not take many wives, or his heart will be led astray. He must not accumulate large amounts of silver and gold.
18 When he takes the throne of his kingdom, he is to write for himself on a scroll a copy of this law, taken from that of the priests, who are Levites. 19 It is to be with him, and he is to read it all the days of his life so that he may learn to revere the LORD his God and follow carefully all the words of this law and these decrees 20 and not consider himself better than his brothers and turn from the law to the right or to the left. Then he and his descendants will reign a long time over his kingdom in Israel.
The practical application of this law was that the more one amassed, the easier it would be to forget God and to love your posessions at all costs. Seeing that he had everything he wanted, it became so much easier to ignore the fact that it was God..not the stuff..that he needed in his life. He forgot God and his accumalation beyond the means God had established led his forgetting of the Lord and the allowance of pagan influences to enter his kingdom!! If that isn’t enough, this man sought to have it all, got it, and still came to the conclusion that it meant nothinh apart from the Lord’s Lordship and living for His Purporses in his life:
Ecclesiastes 2
Pleasures Are Meaningless
1 I thought in my heart, “Come now, I will test you with pleasure to find out what is good.” But that also proved to be meaningless. 2 “Laughter,” I said, “is foolish. And what does pleasure accomplish?” 3 I tried cheering myself with wine, and embracing folly–my mind still guiding me with wisdom. I wanted to see what was worthwhile for men to do under heaven during the few days of their lives.
4 I undertook great projects: I built houses for myself and planted vineyards. 5 I made gardens and parks and planted all kinds of fruit trees in them. 6 I made reservoirs to water groves of flourishing trees. 7 I bought male and female slaves and had other slaves who were born in my house. I also owned more herds and flocks than anyone in Jerusalem before me. 8 I amassed silver and gold for myself, and the treasure of kings and provinces. I acquired men and women singers, and a harem [a] as well–the delights of the heart of man. 9 I became greater by far than anyone in Jerusalem before me. In all this my wisdom stayed with me.
Like what happened to the wisest king in history and Like Jesus made clear on various occasions, those who are rich and often have their basic needs met often become self-reliant and,”in their abundance and self-sufficiency”, they become suffificient. Seeing how wealth seems to represent many things like power/authority and victory, it can be extremely difficult for those who are rich to recognixze their lack and how they lack the power to redeem themselves in any knid of way. Although praise the Lord it’s not impossible for the rich to come to/follow Jesus seeing that his offer is both to the rich and the poor alike (Luke 18:27), I believe that doesn’t erase the fact that there is still greater difficulty for them than others to still follow Him in the wealth they have. Like the old saying goes, “With More Money Comes More Problems.”
I pray I made sense in what I was trying to convey. Again, although God’s word doesn’t condemn wealth, by no means is an easy or harmeless thing to deal with. And, regarding what I said in an earlier comment with what Creflo stated, even if God were to bless you with it, it would’nt solve all your problems and means very little when seeking it obsessively. As Solomon found out at the end of his life, it won’t lead to happiness or health or true security. “No matter how much you earn, trying to create happiness by accumaliting wealth will always leave you feeling as if you never have enough” and one can only find lasting satistifaction in using what you have for Him, not yourself:
Ecclesiastes 5:10-17
10 Whoever loves money never has money enough;
whoever loves wealth is never satisfied with his income.
This too is meaningless.
11 As goods increase,
so do those who consume them.
And what benefit are they to the owner
except to feast his eyes on them?
12 The sleep of a laborer is sweet,
whether he eats little or much,
but the abundance of a rich man
permits him no sleep.
13 I have seen a grievous evil under the sun:
wealth hoarded to the harm of its owner,
14 or wealth lost through some misfortune,
so that when he has a son
there is nothing left for him.
15 Naked a man comes from his mother’s womb,
and as he comes, so he departs.
He takes nothing from his labor
that he can carry in his hand.
16 This too is a grievous evil:
As a man comes, so he departs,
and what does he gain,
since he toils for the wind?
17 All his days he eats in darkness,
with great frustration, affliction and anger.
Funny how those advocating the “propserity” message never preach from such powerful books like Eccleasties dealing with the emptiness/vanity of accumalting things and using what you have within God’s boundaries and for His pleasure. Notice how those who advocate that God desires riches/wealth at all costs to serve Him never talk about the supremacy of living in light of the Lord and how with more wealth comes things like freeloaders and thieves, sleeplessness, fear, anxiety, and the knowledge that you can’t take it with you. Wealth/the love of it is a messy thing. For goodness sake, like Jesus said, the love of wealth (desire) is one of the main things if not the main thing that He said had the power to destroy one’s love for the Lord:
Matthew 6:24
24″No one can serve two masters. Either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and Money.
APerhaps there are some gains that can come from pursuing wealth/money, as Mr.Dollar and others believe. Still, if I have to choose between pushing/pursuing riches (something like the word says I shoud’nt even want) and pursuing godliness, I think I’ll side with the latter. Although some of the benefits may be good, the costs seem to far outweigh everything else. What do ya’ll think? Comments?
-I Timothy 6:6-15-
6But godliness with contentment is great gain. 7For we brought nothing into the world, and we can take nothing out of it. 8But if we have food and clothing, we will be content with that. 9People who want to get rich fall into temptation and a trap and into many foolish and harmful desires that plunge men into ruin and destruction. 10For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil. Some people, eager for money, have wandered from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs.
11But you, man of God, flee from all this, and pursue righteousness, godliness, faith, love, endurance and gentleness. 12Fight the good fight of the faith. Take hold of the eternal life to which you were called when you made your good confession in the presence of many witnesses. 13In the sight of God, who gives life to everything, and of Christ Jesus, who while testifying before Pontius Pilate made the good confession, I charge you 14to keep this command without spot or blame until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ, 15which God will bring about in his own time–God, the blessed and only Ruler, the King of kings and Lord of lords
.
I understand that many people venerate Pastor Dollar as a man of God. Folks believe he is preaching the Bible, unadulterated, unedited and so forth. But however much we may disagree with each other about the aforementioned attributes I at least thought the man would not do what I saw with my own eyes today. Usually when no one comes down for an Altar Call, the pastor will plead with the congregation to come down and be saved. That happened, but that was not all of what happened. When he pleaded with folks to come down he so far as to offer the first person come down money. Now, I know that we need to be patient during Altar Calls, and almost dp whatever it takes for folks to be saved, but my goodness. Are we to offer people money? That is blasphemy. It makes a complete mockery of the Lord we serve by putting some monetary compensation associated with salvation. I’m a little shocked. Not much more to say.
God Bless
Are you SERIOUS??? I’m off to see if I can confirm this via his website.
This is not on the website. I was at the service. I wish I had tapped it.
This just proves the point. Money is the motivator. Period, end of story. Creflo is a liar.
Kyle
And of course when you realize that God does not need man to make an “alter call” for His truth to get into someone’s HEART, it’s even more hilarious, if it happened.
We already know many going up were following a liar and possibly not true to the Lord in the first place.
The whole “repeat after me” angle and thinking that will suddenly save someone is suspect at best. If Creflo ACTUALLY preached the true gospel of Jesus Christ, he would be able to preach and people accept the Lord as God wills right at their seat. I didn’t see Peter make an alter call in Acts 10. You tell people the gospel, the Lord works on their heart and either they believe, or they are hardened and don’t. A resuscitation with alter call is the kind of thing these pimps toss in to cover their tracks and make it appear they actually work for Christ.
To IC:
I didn’t realize that altar calls was a man made tradition until you’ve mention it. When I used to go to church, I went to the altar just about every week for two reasons, to assure myself that God still loves me and if I did anything wrong, to pray for forgiveness, even if I have sinned in my heart. I remember one day running to the altar because the minister said some of you need to repent or else you’re going to hell. I did it out of fear and love for the Lord. My question is who in history started the altar call tradition? I’m learning something new all of the time.
GaryV, I think you’d be best to offer the history lesson regarding “alter calls”.
Let me mention, going to the elders when you want others to pray with you, helping each other overcome sin and keeping each other in check is totally our responsibility as noted in James 5:13-20. However, the grandstanding with the “alter call” is not something that was featured in the early church. And under the new covenant, why is one part of the building literally treated like it’s “holy”? Like if you go to that part of the building, it’s all gonna be betta!??!
I’m not saying an assembly of the saints should not have a level of respect, but the alter play is like something from the old covenant temple model.
For a long time I’ve always had my own personal musings about it, but didn’t really speak up till I noticed others calling it out.
If you’re the one needing prayer, you’re probably the last one who wants to have the eyes of the entire assembly on you. This is why, when the pimps don’t have an effective prayer and the person is NOT healed, that person still says they are healed. They’ve got eyes bearing down on them waiting for the person to claim they are healed.
Of course if you have an honestly effective prayer, you’re going to be surronded by people, but they’ll all probably be hoping to be healed too
. It will be even more of a crowd if God grants you the full gift of healing, but I can’t say we’ve honestly got anyone clearing out hospitals in ways Paul could see masses of people healed.
To angel trent this started in the 1800’s when the revials started in america. It’s a tradition of men like a lot of other things your going to find out. Angela this saying that I’m going to church this is a traditions also.
To DTG:
I went to a COGIC church and the minister used to talk about the founder of it Bishop Charles H Mason. Every year, the church plans a trip to Tennesee because that was the Mecca of COGIC. I have never been there. I didn’t start researching COGIC until the other day and it spoke about Mason’s role and influence in the Azusa street revival and I didn’t know about altar calls until IC mentioned it. In other words, I was just going to church without researching things. You are right. You do learn something all of the time. It never stops. I was looking through my sister’s African-American bible and it was talking about the history of the black church. While slaves weren’t allowed to read and write, they used to listen to the sermons of their white masters and in starting their church, they mimic what they heard. I wouldn’t be surprised if they were twisting scriptures around. I have to read more, but I didn’t see anything on altar calls. I cannot speak for others, but before I left church, I always felt that there was more to the Gospel that the preachers were saying. You feel it in your spirit and when you read the bible for yourself, you see that there is.
(MN: Sorry for the massive block of text. But Carla’s comment is such an outstanding visual aid. If you will, please notice that everything she says revolves around The Cref. Sure, she thanks God for a couple of things, but they are primarily things that The Cref educated her on. And it’s a very generic, subservient God, not the God of the Bible. Pray for Carla. And continue to warn people about the Alpha Male of the Atlanta wolf pack. I mean, let’s face it. Compared to the buisness The Cref does, Eddie Long was feeding on hind teat and is just a runt. The Cref is the alpha male wolf. )
im a proud member of wcci, pastor Dollar is great and i Love him dearly, who cares if he’s rich, Im Glad cuz he’s able to travel around the world and help others in their walk and save lives through the word of God, plus since being their i started my own business due to his encouragement, my life has changed im stronger than ive ever been and my kids, my life has changed being their and hearing the word of God, I thank God he’s our Pastor, i wish him the best, i see a great future for me and my kids, i know God loves me, I am somebody, and I have so much love in me, i dont care about his $ nor materials, i care about my soul and my kids, im not jealous of him, he teaches us great, i love reading my bible now and i want to, what about the soul, lives he’s saved, have you invested years in his church, everyone is fixed on his materials he has, he’s had book sales, tape sells, conventions, etc…you pick out what you want and run with it, well no one makes us stay, no one makes us drive there or get dressed to get there, we have our own free will, are you guys christians how can you talk about the man of God, on what you hear or pick out, arent you judging, no one said you need to go there or listen to him, then dont…..but were their and i will never leave, i have growth their, im happy their, im motivated to learn and study my bible, we can read for ourselves and do, im bettering myself cuz pastor teaches us to improve ourselves, get knowledge, read, gain wisdom….he’s great and we love him, i hope he gets more things, who cares, God has blessed me with my own business now, where i never thought i could do it, but im confident, no fear, and know when i do become very financially stable im going to bless others with a paid home, clothes, cars to less fortunate. I love my church, my pastor and support their Goals, money and materials are not important to the ones who wanna save souls, but i will not live in lack either and dont and will continue to climb up the ladder…im doing better at wcci than any other church ive ever been to, i know who i am now and speak faith not fear, and i will have my dreams one day, they produce vision, and vision enc you to better yourself, and want to achieve the best, knowing that you can. God gives us vision,dont ever give up, and Pastor Dollar is a great Pastor who loves us, and teaches us great. he’s a great role model, business man, and Man of GOD….dont listen to others, go their and see for yourself, dont pick out things and run with them…..since ive been their i have became so happy as a person, no fear, a changed life, a business owner, True woman of God, No Lack, High Self esteem, all because of the word of God thats in me from reading my bible, applying those principals and having faith…..reading on my own and also going to church hearing the word of god……materials come and go, your soul is eternal….but i will achieve my goals, and be propserous with my business, and live how i desire, also im glad he teaches us on prosperity in all area’s not just financially, all area’s…..growth is a system no jus fix one area and you complete….grow in all area’s. anyways how can you be a blessing to someone if your broke and your lights and gas off, and trying to keep theis on and your if off…..being broke and depressed is not of God, it takes money to help people who are struggling, cant pay their rent …you pay it……cant buy food….you buy it its not free…..their kids need clothes…you can buy it….utilities are getting cut off…..you donate money to give to agencies to others….someone is jobless…..you offer a job in your business and pay them…..you cant live without money, money come and go, who cares, your blessing is one the way, change your words, change your thinking, that changes how you feel, that changes your decision making, and you change your outcome….if we are growing and happy at world changers let us be….dont worry about us nor Pastor he’s great and Im Glad God has him here for us, our church may not be for you, but it is for Us….we love you and so does Pastor Dollar….keep up the great work Pastor…We Love You, God Please keep your annointing on him, family, and Ministry….and thank you for our blessings and thank you for the Faith in us to want to better ourselves as a person in all area’s with you Lord, Let us Help others and Love everyone with a pure heart…Amen
(MN: To Carla: Tell you what, since you life has so changed, how about going back to school and learning how to punctuate, paragraph, and spell. But besides that, it’s not about whether or not your life has changed. It’s about whether or not your are receiving the truth about God and His Son Jesus Christ. If you are following Creflo you are not following the Christ of the Bible. All these wonderful things that have happened in your life will be a pile of dung when you face the Christ of the Bible rather than the Christ of Creflo. )
My first of which is going to be a number of comments. This is soooo uncanny, it reminds me of the movie The Matrix. Same mindset. I’m deceived, I’m enslaved, I’m misinformed but say what, I’m happy.
Dear Carla
I do not envy you your positive changes in life, your independence or any of the positive life changing experiences you may have had. That being said this is taken from the wcci site:
“Give A Donation
Praise God! We thank you for your financial support of this ministry. Every seed that you sow is used to fulfill our mission of “changing the world” for the gospel of Jesus. Your giving is very scriptural. Paul stated in Philippians 4:10,18 (The Living Bible) ”
“How grateful I am and how I praise the Lord that you are helping me again. I know you have always been anxious to send what you could, but for a while you didn’t have the chance.I am generously supplied with the gifts you sent me. They are a sweet-smelling sacrifice that pleases God well”.
Unfortunately the reference to Phillippians does not include the verses 11-17 where Paul speaks of learning to be content in whatever state he is in. Further to this in verse 16 he speaks to the fact that their giving was as a result of a certain necessity…..
In Greek
chreia
khri’-ah
From the base of G5530 or G5534; employment, that is, an affair; also (by implication) occasion, demand, requirement or destitution: - business, lack, necessary (-ity), need (-ful), use, want.
The convenient use of scripture is just one of the areas of contention most of us have with pastors of that ilk.
You stated “i dont care about his $ nor materials” You should be when they are obtained at the expense of the saints.
“he’s had book sales, tape sells, conventions, etc…”
Why must i pay for the gospel?
Isa 55:1 Ho, every one that thirsteth, come ye to the waters, and he that hath no money; come ye, buy, and eat; yea, come, buy wine and milk without money and without price.
Isa 55:2 Wherefore do ye spend money for that which is not bread? and your labor for that which satisfieth not? hearken diligently unto me, and eat ye that which is good, and let your soul delight itself in fatness.
Isa 55:3 Incline your ear, and come unto me: hear, and your soul shall live; and I will make an everlasting covenant with you, even the sure mercies of David.
Isa 55:4 Behold, I have given him for a witness to the people, a leader and commander to the people.
Isa 55:5 Behold, thou shalt call a nation that thou knowest not, and nations that knew not thee shall run unto thee because of the LORD thy God, and for the Holy One of Israel; for he hath glorified thee.
Isa 55:6 Seek ye the LORD while he may be found, call ye upon him while he is near:
Isa 55:7 Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.
Please read further comments from other persons on this site objectively looking at the scripture they will cite and respond in the same spirit.
Hey Melvin can these guys be sued under intellectual property or copyright laws? The knowledge ability etc came from the Holy Spirit freely and they are receiving money for it.
(MN: Yeah. The suit will take place at the Judgment Seat. I suspect Cref is going to lose and lose big time. )
Anyone who quotes the Living Babble with a straight face is automatically suspect. Add the MESSage Babble to that as well.
They’re not Bibles BTW, so I simply call them Babbles. Man-made mess.
Carla,
You have made it quite clear that you have benefited from the teachings of Mr. Dollar. He and his organization have helped you become a person of confidence and high self esteem.You now own a business and are financially stable.
Carla do you honestly think that Jesus endured physical torture and a long agonizing death so you could own a weave store?Do you think he dealt with ridicule and temptations and constant plotting against him so your self esteem could get a lift.The same things Mr. Dollar’s teachings have accomplishd in your life could have been achieved at a Tony Robbins seminar.
You say you enjoy reading the Word now, well don’t just read it meditate on it. Do not skip the parts that say you must die to your own desires and follow the will of Christ not Carla.Creflo has duped so many of you guys into believing his image of a succesful christian.We are to be transformed into the image of Christ hence the term Christian.Remember Jesus is humble a servant and walked the earth concerned about others more than himself.
Phl 2:1 If you have any encouragement from being united with Christ, if any comfort from his love, if any fellowship with the Spirit, if any tenderness and compassion,
Phl 2:2 then make my joy complete by being like‑minded, having the same love, being one in spirit and purpose.
Phl 2:3 Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit, but in humility consider others better than yourselves.
Phl 2:4 Each of you should look not only to your own interests, but also to the interests of others.
All you seem concerned about is what you can get from Jesus what about his requirement from you? What does he require from you?….Everything, a true believer knows our life truely belongs to him now. Sorry if you really know him you should now this.I’m glad you feel good about yourself now but is that what christianity is supposed to be about?It aint about you, it’s about Jesus and serving him. I’ll end with this you claim to have tremendous faith.I would ask you, faith in what? Creflo,WCCI,your checkbook? The watered down incorrect teachings you have received clearly show you dont have faith in the true God of the bible.
Gal 2:20 I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.
Carla,
God’s word is clear..we are not suppose to accumulate the things of the world for ourselves. It is in direct contradiction to God’s word to live an excessively materialistic life. We are to do all things in moderation. More importantly, read what Jesus says about rich people.
Finally, the bible refers to the fact that “it is easier for a camel to go throught the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter heaven.” God felt that this point was so important that it is repeated three times within the New Testament (Matthew 19:24, Mark 10:25, Luke 18:25).
I will not even address the “tithing” issue. The reality is that if you are giving the tithe to Mr. Dollar, you are in error in that aspect as well. I am praying for you because the reality is that if you truly love God and really want to know Him and His truth, He will reveal it to you and release you from this stronghold. I am also praying for you as a mother. From one mother to another, we do not need to raise another generation of “sheeple” that live in error based on man’s teachings.
Concerning Dr Creflo Dollar….. The Bible says “Touch Not the Hair of My Annointed!”. Words touch just like hands! Be careful because God is watching. He knows your spirit and your motivation. “To him who has ears, let him hear!
(MN: And to her who has a mind, let her think! )
Creflo Augustus Dollar is not anointed with the Holy Spirit and he is not a representative of the Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ.
Denise,
I am going to say this AGAIN, even though I realize that if you read and studied YOUR bible, you would know that when God referred to “touch not mine anointed” HE was NOT referring to church leaders. Instead, He was referring to those of us in the assembly….AND He was referring to those whom GOD had clearly identified as enemies for whom HIS children would have to fight. READ GOD’s word and stop all this spiritually-weak rhetoric…you sound like the chuch leaders in the new testament that accused Jesus of working for the devil when all He did was what we are doing…exposing the enemy and calling a wolf a wolf.
Are Creflo and the rest of the WOF crowd children of Israel? Do they live in ancient Israel? If not, they are not the prophets and anointed ones of which that verse speaks.
Please study the “touch not my anointed ones” verse in context, and you will see how mistaken it is to apply it to the likes of Creflo Dollar.
Come on everyone. I’m sure she reads her bible. Unfortunately it would appear she has yet to ask the Holy Spirit for help to make sure she is understanding what God is saying instead of what CAD is saying. HUGE difference. People under wolves are taught to study what they are told. Most have only scanned the rest of the bible. Such as the book of Malachi. They fail to see that if they read more than just Malachi 3:8-10 that the book is really an indictment against the so called leaders who stopped teaching what God ordained and started teaching what sounds good to the flesh. People love to hear that they are little gods and that they should be rich. Few like to hear they need to repent, especially since we are all ‘good’ right? Most people are still reeling from the JB, PW stuff, their hearts are so broken the thought that more of their favorite celebs are false is just too much. Oh well.
(MN: The followers are also taught what the verse they are reading means by the pimp. As a result, when they read it, they hear the preacher and not the Bible. Between the scanning, the forced interpretation, and the desire to prosper according to the world, it’s tough for the pimped to escape. )
However, Creflo Augustus Dollar (Cad for short) is an example of creative pimpdom at its finest. If you look huckster up in the dictionary you will see a picture of Cref next to the definition.
I thought CAD owned the copyright and trademark on that term
.
Denise Brown, in all seriousness, how do you square 1 Corinthians 4 with the foolishness that Dollar is doing?
Dollar follows another jesus, one who is nothing like what is in scripture. I see CAD and his apprentice Ma$e taking scripture and using it exactly how God warned of in II Peter 2. By definition this makes Creflo a false teacher. CAD has taken someone under his wing in Ma$e, who used to worship money in music videos and now worships dollars while putting the Lord’s name on it. As II Peter 2 notes, it would have been better if they both never claimed the Lord’s name, than to claim the Lord and do the twisted false teaching that they do now.
And Melvin, did you know CAD has group babble sessions at his building?
(MN: Not surprised. How else can he keep them from thinking? Plus it keeps the ones who don’t feeling as if they are substandard and can’t move in what he says because they just don’t have the anointing. )
I am confused who is Mase following nowadays? Dolla or Diddy?
Satan. Pray for Mase. He has learned the “art” of deception.
See Ma$e running his pimp game down in this video. (The message, seek Heaven for earthly riches!!! It’s something how they twist Matthew 6:33, to claim it’s not about “needs” but riches [earthly “prosperity”] and they move terms like “abundant life” from life eternal to mansi