It would be nice to have a Paypal link on your site so people will give whenever they want. It makes help for your website much easier.

It’s NOT about seeking God for most of the pimps………..or the pimped. And that mindset is not restricted to WOF either.

I’m in the midst of an exchange right now with the owner of a prominent discernment site.

I am firmly convinced that God is sovereign over all, including salvation. She is firmly Arminian (man is the ultimate sovereign over the issues of his salvation).

Ok……….there are areas one can have disagreement in, yet not doubt each other’s salvation. I don’t doubt she’s saved just because she’s Arminian.

BUT………she made a statement in our exchange the other day that FLOORED me.

She said, (paraphrase)”I could never worship a God Who is the ultimate authority over salvation, picking the Elect arbitrarily.”

As for me………….if I discover that God is not sovereign over these issues, I’ll worship Him anyway. He’s worthy…………He’s GOD.

But like so many others, unless God conforms to the way she thinks He should be(in her finite understanding), she’s not interested.

This is not some WOF looney, barking like a dog and trying to manipulate God into making her rich. She has a DISCERNMENT site.

But ultimately, she desires a God Who will conform to her desires, her finite sense of justice, her preferred image of what or whom God SHOULD be.

She’s every bit the idol-maker that Creflo, or Benny, or Aaron was with his Golden Calf.

I found that shocking……….I was under the impression we were to conform to Him, not vice-versa.

It disgusted me to see all of the people clapping about Ken/Gloria Copeland’s 20 million dollar plane as if any of them who helped finance it will ever get to fly/ride in it! And look at how many people were thrilled when Creeplow was bragging about how he spent his followers money.(”I didn’t come here to get anything from you-I’m , loaded, wealthy, I have more than enough- I even have my own plane-nyah nyah nananana- youuuu dooont- you caaaant ride in it, even though you paaaaaiiid for it-it’s just for meee and my famiilly )
You know how prostitutes feel proud when their pimp steps out looking all sharp from all the hard earned money they’ve given him, they want him to look like the baddest mack daddy around, he’s gotta have one of the largest ’stables’, ride in the nicest car, dress in the finest threads, give off the illusion that he’s a success, while he uses and exploits his women to achieve his own self-centered goals. It’s the same mentality these followers have- they don’t care as long as they can look or feel “rich and successful” by association. They’re proud when they can say, soinso is my pimp, or soinso is my pastor same thing. pathetic and idiotic. compare the two-the resemblance is uncanny.

(MN: Try this posting. I think it addresses what frustrates you. )

And I offer my sincerest apologies as well. This isn’t why we’re here, after all.

Part of the reason for our differing views of the pimped is because I believe the Word teaches the pimped are pimped because they LOVE to be pimped.

2Ti 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.

2Ti 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure (Strong’s “bear with”) sound doctrine; but AFTER THEIR OWN LUSTS shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;

2Ti 4:4 And they shall turn away [their] ears from the truth (notice that their ears are NOT turned away by the false teachers,it is a CHOICE) and shall be turned unto fables.

Jer 5:31 The prophets prophesy falsely, and the priests bear rule by their means; and my people LOVE [to have it] so: and what will ye do in the end thereof?

I do not………..as so many do………see the deceived as purely victims.

Were it so, the Bema Seat would be very different indeed. At that judgement, and certainly at the Great White Throne, we will not be able to point the finger at anyone else.

No one can say “I was pimped………..Creflo made me do it.”

No………the responsibility ultimately is upon the one with itching ears, not the teacher. Both shall stand alone, and naked before the Omniscience of God.

The Truth is available to all who seek it wholeheartedly

Jer 29:13 And ye shall seek me, and find [me], when ye shall search for me with all your heart.

There’s a promise that makes the “carrot on a stick” of worldly prosperity look pale by comparison.

The pimped are just as responsible for their state as the pimps. If they are victims, they are not essentially victims of the pimps, but of their own lusts.

When I was up to my neck in WOF, I knew some things were off. There are some things I refused to preach from the pulpit or in the classroom. I just knew they weren’t right.

But still I stayed among them. My entire life revolved around that belief system. All my frends were there.

But deep down…………..I knew…….. I knew.

And deep down, they know as well. But they love it (or as in my case the family I had there) too much to let it go.

They are responsible……….God will not accept “Benny deceived me”. The fact that any are deceived is an indictment of the state of their heart ( as it was mine).

If their heart was after God, He would lead them out or keep them from involvement to begin with.

They are ultimately responsible……………they are not victims, and I refuse to treat them as such.

Say what you will concerning my interaction with Melvin. It is interesting that you did not mention my apology to him above all, or identify the fact that you referenced two people in your last post to me….. The Lord is ever so patient with us it is amazing to know him……It’s cool, I love Jesus above all…and I love you too brotha GaryV.

Regardless….heartfelt repentance in the eyes of a Holy God is what is most important to me…..I could care less of anything else as it is summed up in Eccl 10:13-14

Now I do not retract the comments, because I used the word of God. The only thing I referenced was pride, hey you have your issues with what I say, but yet I have none with you. As an individual I truly believe you are wise, and have understanding. Go on and talk about JHB, T-Dex, Noel Jones, the man you call “Willow Boy” all you want….

Just the names you call people whom are blinded by these men, I have had an issue with. So with regard to any issues, I do apologize. I was not the one whom called you “gunshy” it appears you addressed myself and someone else in the same post, so here I offer a “white” flag in hopes of your acceptance. Thank you and I pray that any dissention is laid at the foot of the cross.

Gridiron

It’s cool………thus far no one has contradicted the verses I cited to support my position. That’s typical. just cite the love chapter………out of context…….and ignore Paul’s language toward false teachers and their supporters. Ignore Christ’s words toward them. And Peter’s. And Jude’s.

Precisely as the pimped do………..

It’s actually sadder still because it’s here as opposed to some WOF forum.

He was clearly wrong in what he said about me, but his pride won’t let him admit it. The ridiculous exchange Grid had with Melvin over theology……….where Melvin demolished his position……….couldn’t admit it there either.

Ah well……..I’ve wasted enough time with this little diversion. My posts are clearly marked with my sig. The articles Melvin allows me to post on the front page are as well. They can be either read or ignored as the individual prefers.

I’ve gotta go now………it’s my turn to lead the blind into the ditch.

If someone is unaware and they are called out as if they were the false preacher themself (IE -Friend of God’s original post and GaryV’s sarcasm toward her when it was CLEAR AS DAY she was asking a question gently in which she never made a crazy proclamation or statement…that is the problem….and above all at the end of the dialogue. “I won’t hold my breath”, and “where did you get that bit of wisdom” -were original responses to clear questions by him in response to her - from an obviously concerned individual who had questions…..look at the post)….she understood what I was talking about because the gentleman’s comments were rough and sarcastic from the start…and she was thankful that someone understood, how many really desire to show mercy to those being hurt?

So to compare all (False preachers, those being deceived, and those whom desire answers to turn away) in the same group is a dangerous risk because where God draws and we dare to “puff” up and interfere by calling out strong language. The man’s words condemn himself….he is not calling the only the false teachers vipers (which is biblical), but the overthetop expressionism toward those whom vulnerably appear to have a lower degree of understanding when it comes to the word of God is flabbergasting….. call a wolf when you see it, but God is merciful first. Not the teachers Melvin, the people are being called out.

Are you perhaps reading more into 1 Cor 13 than the context would suggest or allow?

Was Jesus not showing love when he called the Pharisees names?

Was John the Baptist less than loving when he called the Pharisees and Scribes vipers?

Was the Apostle John being mean and spiteful when he attributed the spirit of the Antichrist to some of the people around him?

You run a real risk when you take a verse and try to compare a persnon’s actions to the verse. If you do that, then God really screwed up when He had the Israelites go into the Promised Land and kill everything that moved. How loving was that?

The writing is here on the website, and the scriptures from the Bible. Thanks.

To disabuse you of your ignorance and slander, I correct you with facts……which you had neither the decency nor the courtesy to seek from me first before you dragged my name through the mud.

Now…………after instigating the episode and provoking me to correct your errors, you have the gall to call me proud and a pharisee…….for simply addressing your misinformation on a public forum.

You will note that I have never posted anything of the sort here before. If I was looking for praise, I would have. All I have EVER referenced was my humiliating foray into WOF, which is a source of embarrassment to me to this day.

I am content that you have revealed far more of yourself than anyone else could have through your actions here.

You could have done the decent thing and asked for the truth rather than post falsehood against me.

You could have swallowed your pride and apologized when you were informed of the truth.

Rather, you call me a pharisee.

I’m content that God has vindicated me through your vitriol. Your heart is exposed.

Can we have one of your lectures on love again, and the cross and reconciliation??

I pray the dialogue may be more understanding. I see how the thought “liberal theologians” may be coined into the post, but that is not what I am saying.

My disposition has to do with (really) arguments/debates with regard to Theology. That is why I defined what true theology is (with regard to John the Revelator), as opposed to what we have now.

So in the concurrent posts I referenced the modern-day Theology as we know it because it’s premise is debate.

So when I see terms thrown around that minute numbers do not know and understand the true meaning of, it poses and obstacle, brings about a proud spirit, instead of preaching Jesus Christ and the resurrection.

I hope this contains a bit more clarity, and above all I commend you on your dialogue with me (even though you did not understand me at points) as the exchange was very clean, direct and formal.

I have learned something from that interaction alone today.

I humbly apologize in hopes this brings clarity to what I originally intended.

I am not referencing the origination of Theology, but the evolution of it through the Middle Ages and Enlightenment.

Mormonism - Many Gods - as Jesus himself became one (you could become one through your life on earth)
-The dark colored people are children of the devil and cursed as a result of this dark skin

Terrestrial, Telestial, & Celestial Kingdoms (Joseph Smith on Judgement seat W/Jesus and the Father.

Orthodox Christianity - One God existent in three persons (Father, Son, Holy Spirit)

The plan of man’s salvation fulfilled through Jesus Christ’s atonement.

“I’m not going to get into a tit for tat over your erroneous assumptions. Thus far, I’ve been “gun shy” in conferences, church pulpits, street corners, open air rallys, and on television (What about Luke 18:11-12, 14).

The fact is, you have no idea who I am (What about Gal 6:3), or what I’ve done, or what I’m doing now. Do you??

And if you did, you wouldn’t post what you post.

Just let it lie………. ”

Wow…..GaryV Prov 17:18

Theology opens the door for division because the premise is disagreement…..(IE, Jesus suffered in Hell for our sins, Homosexual Churches/Divisions, Apophatic Theology-discussion of what God is not-, Natural/Positive Theology - the nature and means of discussing and attaining revelation without the Holy Scriptures) . Preach the Gospel, that’s all we are called the do. Clearly it has been stated that the remarks toward the very people we supposedly love are the objects of the smurks. Not the false prophets, come on….understanding. Preach to the people. That’s all John the Baptist did. The smurky remarks were not in regard to those who were blind or being prostituted. You have it twisted, bad. There is continual harping upon the way we should handle these men, but to the ones who are in confusion and may desire answers…..the replies are often of a brutish nature toward the individual all in the name of scripture.

We bind the men to the oracles of God with no regard when Jesus said likewise (Mark 2:23-28). The oracles of God are to benefit men.

(MN: I hate to say it, but you’re talking in circles. Or maybe we are just talking past each other. Your every statement has been theological. How do you contend for the faith (as we are commanded in Jude) without talking theology?

Perhaps we can calibrate our discussion. Without adressing ANY theological issues, explain the difference between Orthodox Christianity and Mormonism. Remember: No theology. )

The instant you say “Jesus Christ is the only way (John 14:6)” you are dealing with Theology. When you say “I can walk in the newness of life (Rom 6:4)” you are dealing in Theology. Theology is not the art of coming up with useless arguments. Theology is the study of God as He is exposed in the Bible. You do theology whenever you work through questions you have about God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit.

Struggling with the idea of the Trinity? That’s a theological question.

But somehow, I don’t think you are saying what it sound like you are saying.