In this age of the feel-good gospel, we need preachers who will stand like strong oaks. Instead, we get Joel Osteen, an anemic Charlie Brown Christmas tree barely able to hold what few pretty ornaments he does have. We need men who can share the meat of the gospel with the world. Instead we have Joel Osteen, the twinky man.
Last time we saw Joel, he couldn’t muster the strength to say that Jesus is the only way to salvation. Apparently he was too concerned about getting criticism from people. When his flock found out about his waffling, he apologized for waffling. It seems the man can’t even stand strong on his unwillingness to stand strong.
Well, Willow Boy got a chance to make things good. But what did he do? He wilted like the spiritual pansy we know him to be. This time it was on same-sex marriage.
Apparently the Bible isn’t real clear on this subject. At least you’d get that idea listening to Willow Boy during an interview in Massachussetts [click here], the bluest state in the Union. Here’s what Mr. Powerhouse had to say:
“I don’t think it’s God’s best,” the handsome Holy Roller said of homosexuality. “I never feel like homosexuality is God’s best.”
When pressed on the issue, Osteen said,
“I don’t feel like that’s my thrust . . . you know, some of the issues that divide us, and I’m here to let people know that God is for them and he’s on their side.”
Pitiful. Someone should nail the New Testament to Joel’s forehead, you know, the way Luther (a real oak tree who didn’t care who criticized him) nailed his theses to the church door. But then again, I doubt Willow Boy would even have the strength to support the nail.
But maybe he thinks that what he is saying is consistent with the New Testament. You know, the part in Romans (1:28-32) that says:
And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper, being filled with all unrighteousness, wickedness, greed, evil; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malice; they are gossips, slanderers, haters of God, insolent, arrogant, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, without understanding, untrustworthy, unloving, unmerciful; and although they know the ordinance of God, that those who practice such things are worthy of death, they not only do the same, but also give hearty approval to those who practice them.
Maybe, according to Joel the word “depraved” in the original Greek means “not God’s best.”
By the way, if you want to see and hear some shameless waffling, give the clip below a listen. And notice how he keeps ducking by making it seem as if you are judging someone’s heart if you stand on Jesus as the only way.
Remember - these people are pimps. They don’t care about you. They don’t care about God. They only care about fame and fortune - their fame and their fortune.
Shalom,
O.K. some criticism Brother Melvin. One thing I respected you on was that you always provided detailed referenes.
This time the only reference is “during an interview is Massachussetts…”.
I’ll try to search Yahoo!News
(MN: My apologies. The reference: Boston Herald )
Osteen really dodges the issue here. Talk about a post-modern gospel preacher! He’s talking out both sides of his mouth! He believes and agrees with everybody.
pimps don’t want to OFF END any one
You guys are pitiful. Here’s what I think. If faithful brother like TD Jakes, Creflo, and Joel are all pimps and only out to get your money…well then you don’t have to worry…because it is written whatever is done in the dark will come to the light…and what these brothers are “doing” will eventually fail. Butttttt….if what these brothers are teaching are true and sincere and ARE from the Almighty(Which I believe it does)… then there is nothing YOU will be able to do about it…except what you are doing now…writing about it….and your arguement is with God. How bout you spend your time doing something else.
(MN: I quote their teachings. Are the things I quote truth? Did Jesus suffer in hell for your sins? Does the Father have three parts? Is Jesus the firt born again man? If none of this is true, then the Bible pronounces them anathema and this site brings it to light. This isn’t a difficult concept to understand.
And if what they are teaching is false, then they are neither faithful, nor brothers. )
TO: Jomo Lyles-Belton—You said, “Here’s what I think,” and “Which I believe it does,” concisely states that it is YOU who should spend his time doing something else:
(1) Stop leaning to your own understanding and (2) Study to show your-self approved UNTO God, a workman who needs not be ashamed, RIGHTLY dividing the word of truth. To do otherwise, according to Scripture, is the mark of a fool and that is worse than pitiful.
Proverbs 26:12—Do you see a man wise in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.
Proverbs 29:20—Do you see a man who is hasty in his words? There is more hope for a fool than for him. SELAH!
melville, why do you add the word strong after some of your mn comments. just wondering?
(MN: It’s a screw up. I highlight words and phrases like this: < strong > and end the highlight with < / strong >. If I misplace a code, the application gets confused and doesn’t use it as coding and instead just prints it. )
Mr Belton ranted………
“You guys are pitiful. Here’s what I think .
(GV)I would argue about using that term for your statement,BTW.
(Belton)If faithful brother like TD Jakes, Creflo, and Joel are all pimps and only out to get your money…well then you don’t have to worry…because it is written whatever is done in the dark will come to the light
(GV) PRECISELY……….and HOW do you think this happens, exactly, Hmmmmmm?? Do you believe an angel will sail through the clouds announcing their pimpery?? Perhaps God will take out ad space in the NY Times?? Smoke signals??
No my bewitched friend, THIS is how God accomplishes that task……..
Rom 16:17 ¶ Now I beseech you, BRETHREN (believers, NOT God), MARK THEM WHI which cause divisions and offences CONTRARY TO THE DOCTRINE which ye have learned; and avoid (SHUN)them.”
1Ti 1:3 ¶ As I (Paul) besought thee to abide still at Ephesus, when I went into Macedonia, that THOU (Who?? BELIEVERS) mightest CHARGE (command)some that they teach no other doctrine”
2Ti 4:1 ¶ I charge (COMMAND) [thee] therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;
2Ti 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; REPROVE, REBUKE, EXHORT with all longsuffering and doctrine.(who?? BELIEVERS)
2Ti 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
2Ti 4:4 And they shall turn away [their] ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
(Belton)…and what these brothers are “doing” will eventually fail.
(GV) Wrong again. Sensing a pattern here??
I see this fallacy of “If it’s not God it’ll fail” offered so much by those who defend these “ministers” that it seems appropriate to address it.
The “proof text” (hate that concept) used for this nonsense is in Acts………
Act 5:34 Then stood there up one in the council, a PHARISEE (don’t miss that), named Gamaliel, a doctor of the law, had in reputation among all the people, and commanded to put the apostles forth a little space;
Act 5:35 And said unto them, Ye men of Israel, take heed to yourselves what ye intend to do as touching these men.
Act 5:36 For before these days rose up Theudas, boasting himself to be somebody; to whom a number of men, about four hundred, joined themselves: who was slain; and all, as many as obeyed him, were scattered, and brought to nought.
Act 5:37 After this man rose up Judas of Galilee in the days of the taxing, and drew away much people after him: he also perished; and all, [even] as many as obeyed him, were dispersed.
Act 5:38 And now I say unto you, Refrain from these men, and let them alone: FOR IF THIS COUNSEL OR THIS WORK BE OF MEN IT WILL COME TO NAUGHT:
NOW………notice who SAYS this. Is it God?? No. Jesus?? No. An Apostle?? No. A writer of Scripture?? No.
It’s a Pharisee……..one who has aligned himself AGAINST GOD……..AGAINST JESUS…….AGAINST THE APOSTLES………AGAINST THE WRITERS OF SCRIPTURE.
To take the words of one who has REJECTED CHRIST and treat them as the oracles of God is no different that taking the words of satan and doing the same.
Need evidence that Gamaliel’s words are wrong, and in contradiction to the words of Christ and the Apostles (whom he REJECTS??)?? Here ‘ya go……..
Ti 3:1 ¶ This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
2Ti 3:2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
2Ti 3:3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
2Ti 3:4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
2Ti 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
(GV) Doesn’t sound like these godless “ministers” are “failing” here as Mr Belton claims they must, does it??
Paul writes in Acts 20:29
“For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.
Act 20:30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.
Act 20:31 Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears.
(GV) Seems Paul didn’t think these wolves would “fail” either.
2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for [that day (final judgement) shall not come], except there come a FALLING AWAY (APOSTASY) first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
2Th 2:5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
2Th 2:6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
2Th 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth [will let], until he be taken out of the way.
2Th 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
2Th 2:9 [Even him], whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
2Th 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
2Th 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
2Th 2:12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
(GV)Again, Paul gives us a picture of deception SUCCEEDING, not FAILING.
Jesus’ words….Luke 18:8 Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?
(GV)Seems Jesus wasn’t convinced that the deceivers would “fail” either.
Paul again……”2Ti 3:13 “But evil men and seducers shall wax WORSE AND WORSE, DECEIVING AND BEING DECEIVED”
(GV) Nothing about the deceivers “failing” here either………..
Mar 13:22 For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if [it were] possible, even the elect.
(GV) Jesus shows no hint that these false prophets and false christs will “fail”. Quite the opposite,in fact. He states that the delusion will be so strong that even the elect will scarcely escape it.
It is instructive to note here that the word “christ” in “false christs” is from “christos” meaning “anointed.” Jesus calls the deceivers of the Last Days the FALSELY ANOINTED. Sound familiar (Cashflo Dollar, Dad Hagin, Ken Copeland, Benny Hinn,Marilyn Hickey, Peter Popoff etc, etc)??
I could go on, but I trust the point is made. Gamaliel’s words that the false religion of man will “fail” directly contradicts the Words of both the Saviour and Scripture in general.
Even common sense destroys this idiotic notion as we see Mormonism, and JWs, and cults, and Moonies, and New Agers, and Muslims FLOURISHING.
These are man-made and false religious systems, are they not?? Well, if Gamaliel is right, they should have failed LONG AGO…….yet they INCREASE just as Scripture clearly states.
So, let’s put this nonsense to rest, shall we??
Mr Belton, I speak to you as a brother. I believe the best of you……..that you are concerned with TRUTH and GOD first and foremost. I believe God directed you here because he wants to open your eyes.
It should be clear from just your short little note that you have at best a superficial knowledge of the Word, and have no knowledge as to the proper methods of Scriptural interpretation.
In light of all this, shouldn’t you be concerned that your deficiencies in these areas are the very reason you can support these “ministers”, rather than reprove them as the Word demands??
May God open your eyes…………
Belton needs to check out EZEKIEL 9:4 It’s says go through the city not under a rock I mean the church wall. SET A MARK upon the foreheads of the men that sigh and that cry for all the abominations that be done in the midst thereof. 5 And to the others he said in mine hearing Go Ye AFTER him through the city and smite let not your eye spare neither have ye pity CHECK OUT VERSE 6 Slay utterly old and young both maids and littlle children and women but come not near any upon whom is the mark and BEGIN at my SANCTUARY Then they began at the ancient men which were BEFORE the HOUSE JUst READ READ READ ALL OF EZEKIEL 9
I have read some of the earlier comments on this post and Mr. Osteen and have seen that he does not present the Gospel in a sense that it would make a person feel convicted but rather feel good instead. It is my sincere desire that we read the Bible (1st & 2nd Timothy) to discern who is for real and who is not. I believe that this whole site is dedicated to just that……..Determining what is real from what is fake! Please do not misunderstand me, I take the Bible over what any person says and from what I read, a lot of these Pastors are playing on that fact that WE don’t read the Bible!
I agree with you totally. If more people would read the bible for themselves, they would see how the WoF’ers misuse and misquote the scriptures.
Reading is Fundamental..
I want to say that I think this website is so critical of people that we are not looking at the big picture. No he is not getting on Larry King hollering whos going to hell and who is not going to hell. But he is right for saying that it is not his to judge. We as Christians always want to point the finger and say who is right and who is wrong. He is right, it is not outs to judge on who will go to heaven or hell…the bible says that God will have mercy on whom he will. Whomever this is putting these things out about Pastor Olsten, if he is not spreading the gospel (to your liking or satisfaction) then use this website as a channel to reach the ones that you think he is not reaching…and stop running people down. Im more offended that you are doing so much name calling to on this website and in the same breathe trying to shed light…bitter and sweet water cant come out of the same fountain. Would Jesus talk so harsh about someone in trying to correct something that they MAY have been doing wrong? Aboslutely not. As a matter of fact the word says…with loving kindness have i drawn thee…and what about the scripture that says if we see our brother in a fault, we are supposed to restore someone in love. You have to be careful how you expose, because you can damage. We have to be careful what we say about men and women of God, we can’t just say anything we want to say about them, they are God’s annointed regardless of if we agree with them or not. “touch not mine annointed, and do my prophets no harm”
(MN: As I said, he phrased it to sound as if I am judging someone’s heart if I say “If this person has not accepted Jesus Christ as their savior, they will not go to be with Christ.” But it’s true - If Mother Teresa did not accept Jesus Christ as her savior before she died, whe is not with Christ now. Or, if Billy Graham did not accept Jesus Christ as his savior before he dies (I can’t say he has not) then he will not be with God for eternity. This is what the Bible says. Repeating it and using it the same way the Bible uses it is not being “jedugmental” as Willow Boy would have you think. Which was a better thing to do - let Larry King stay happy or say up front “If a Jew has not accepted Jesus Christ as his savior he is not saved, he is not going to heaven. It doesn’t matter how many good things you do. The key is Jesus Christ and Him crucified. Insteal, all Larry heard was “I believe it with all my heart, but I’m not willing to apply to anyone else.” A willow boy. That’s all Mr. Osteen is, a prettified willow boy. )
But again, there is sonething you must remember. I am not trying to correct these pimps, I am trying to warn you away from them. Over the last year and a half I have constantly said that there is no attempt on this site to “reconcile” with the pimps. Only warn you.
It is so disheartening when I read people write so many erroneous things, mainly based on religious platitudes, and certainly not from any research of the scriptures. The religious community has this picture of a meek Jesus who never said a harsh word to or about anyone, and so many people are inclined to believe this. “Would Jesus talk so harsh about someone in trying to correct something that they MAY have been doing wrong? Aboslutely not.” You couldn’t be more wrong. Jesus’ most harsh criticisms were levied against the RELIGIOUS people of His day, the Scibes and Pharisees. How many times did Jesus call them HYPOCRITES? How many times did He call them FOOLS? Did you read how He told them that they were full of dead men’s bones? Did you read about how He called them a generation of vipers? Did you read how He called them serpents and snakes? Did you read how He referred to King Herod as a fox(jackal)? You are absolutely wrong. Jesus was FULL of harsh words. And of course, you show your scriptural ignorance by quoting “Touch not mine anointed..” You erroneously think that that is a mandate for Christians to not speak negatively about God’s “preachers.” I’m just glad that most the people who read the posts on this site know better. You say that you’re more offended at the “name-calling” on this site than you are of people who water down the gospel, and totally preach a DIFFERENT gospel. I think that shows a lot about your spiritual condition.
I agree completely. The thing that bothers me is that when people use the “you can’t judge me” comment are usually the people who are in a sin and refuse correction. If I am in a sin I would hope a brother or sister confront me on the issue. How many times have I’ve been convicted in a message from the pulpit only to say, he was right.” I did not get upset and leave the church or talk about him judging me. What do Proverbs say about those who refuse correction?
On the other hand, you have those that are without that will jump on Christians saying we can’t judge them(and we can’t if they are without) but something odd strikes me. I see no tabloid magazines going out of business because nobody is buying the gossip and judging of the stars. I see no talk shows or news talk shows being cancelled after they judge celebrities and accused criminals. I see no tickets not being sold when a popular comedian comes to town and get on stage and judge all types of people in the form of comedy. Michael Jackson, OJ and Kobe Bryant was judged by most of the people who say “christians can’t judge me” even after they were acquitted. If I am not mistaken, Steve Harvey stood at MegaFest and judged christians for most of the hour he was on stage. So what gives. I remember asking my aunt this question: “When I make a moral statment or a statement about sin, you say nobody is perfect and you can’t judge me, why is it that when you think I have sinned, you are quick to say that I supposed to be a Christian? Are Christians perfect or are we in the “nobody is perfect” class?” She immediately got quiet.
I strongly believe that the church is in the condition it is in today due to those “You can’t judge me” and “touch not mine annointed” Christians who stand by and let any and everything go in the church. Where would the church be today if somebody stood up and say if you are gay, you don’t serve in any office in the church? Where would the church be if someone stood up and says if the pastor is in a sin or found guilty of sleeping around, he must step down? Where would the church be if we all studied our bibles ourselves and when a teacher say things like God is the biggest failure in the bible or God need our permission to enter the earth or better still, Jesus did not come to earth as God? Where would the church be if we followed the New Testament instructions and stop trying to refer to how God dealt with Old Testament saints on one time events. Why don’t we just throw out the New Testament letters if we refuse to follow them?
I noticed that other religions and faiths put us to shame when it comes to obeying their laws. They seem to follow the letter of the bible better than we do. JW’s, Mormoms, NOI, and Church of Christ are a few that I have studied and dealt with and these guys look the part of Christians. Now, that being said, I must reinterate, they LOOK the part. Jesus said the wheat and tares will grow together (the church as we know it) and will be separated in the end so Satan in his limited wisdom will try and make the fake look real and the real look fake. So I guess we will continue to have these things in the church. After all, Jesus said we would.
Yeah and don’t forget that Jesus got angry and turned over the tables of the moneychangers. He also wasn’t too meek then.
TO THE TNMAADMPNH CROWD: Your “touch-not” monkey-see/monkey-do salve is beginning to sound, smell, taste, and produce like Syrup of Ipecac–the inducer of vomit. John writes to “his little children” (those who belong to Jesus), NOT Scribes, Pharisees, so-called Pastors, Priests, Popes, so-called Preachers, Perpetrators, Profits, Profitesses, Pimps, Pulpit Prostitutes, Reverends, and “Reverend Doctors,” (whatever that is; couldn’t find it in my Bible), etc.
1 John 2:20 says: “But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and you ALL know.”
1 John 2:27 says: “And as for you, THE ANOINTING WHICH YOU RECEIVED FROM HIM abides in you and you have no need for anyone to teach you; but as HIS anointing teaches you about ALL things, and is true and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you abide in Him.”
Pray tell, where are we to apply this word but to ALL who belong to Jesus. This is evident by John’s salutation, “My little children,” which exemplifies (1 John 3:3) “how great a love the Father has bestowed upon us, that we should be called children of God; and such we are.”
No God-fearing and loving father in his right mind would pimp or prostitute his child(ren) in thought, word, and/or deed the way these prolific pulpit pimps and pimpettes do. What’s going to happen to you who holler, TNMAADMPNH! is that you are setting yourselves up to experience to a greater degree the demonic trouncing of you, outright stealing your money, and manipulating your mind by the very people you so vehemently protect.
IN YOUR HEARTS, YOU ARE YOKED WITH THEM. After the fog and smoke clear, and if you still have a mind to think with, you will welcome God’s grace to deliver. Stop, study the Scriptures, and stop mindlessly taking this verse, “TNMAADMPNH,” out of context.
The principle of the yoke also falls under sowing and reaping. It’s a spiritual law! If you sow into their UNrighteous deeds, you will also reap with them. If you don’t believe it, just keep on living until your appointed time! It may come as a whirlwind or it may come as a creeping locust, but it is coming, just as sure as the second coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. Incidentally, TNMAADMPNH = Touch Not Mine Anointed and Do My Prophets No Harm # # #
Your right is not Hollering nor is he speaking for the MOST HIGH. 1John 2:15-16 is the answer why he’s not speaking. ISAIAH TALKS ABOUT What GOD’S people will do once the MESSIAH COMES. HAS HE COME OR HAS HE NOT WHERE IS THE STANDARD WE suppose to follow the example of CHRIST> CHRIST DIDN’T overlook the sin HE CALLED IT OUT READ YOUR WORD AND STOP LETTING THE IDOL SHEPHERD GUIDE YOU AND OTHERS TO THE LAKE OF FIRE AND BRIMSTONE. ZECHARIAH 11:17 iDOL shepherd. HE SAID WOE TO THE IDOL SHEPHERD THAT LEAVETH THE FLOCK!
Another “Touch not my anointed” (do you ever actually attempt to find context before you drag a verse out?? Silly question I know, because if you did you wouldn’t be defending Willow Boy).
And the ever popular “Don’t judge”. Ummmmmmmm…….got news for ‘ya Skippy……..on the issue of whether or not folks who don’t accept Christ as Saviour are heading for hell, the Bible has already rendered judgement, and ministers are COMPELLED by the Word to make that known.
have you ever considered that the folks who watch Larry King (not to mention King himself) have been denied an opportunity to hear the Gospel,and that it may well have been the last (missed) opportunity for some??
No, you didn’t consider that…….. obviously. Well, at least they got their ears tickled.
I’m starting to believe that Psalms 105:15 is the cornerstone scripture for the church of the pimps. Why do I get the impression that WOF pimps open and close their services with that scripture (turn to your neighbor and say “touch not my anointed……). Man it’s getting so tired.
Shalom Alechem,
I’ve attempted to find some of Joel Osteen’s teachings on both of his websites and couldn’t locate any HTML files.
Can you guys help? It seems it would benefit them not to place his teachings up there. I keep running into the bookstore or some type of charge/fees.
Blessed Be Messiah Yeshua,
Avishalom
If you consider yourself a Christian and the WORD of GOD is the standard you live by, then it is not at all judgmental on your part to state that the WORD of GOD says that homosexuality is an abomination, and that JESUS (Yeshua) is the only WAY to the FATHER and to heaven, and that you believe it. You personally are not judging anyone by saying this is what you believe. The WORD of GOD is the judge, and the WORD is only judging those who are practicing those particular sin. He danced around the issue when all he had to do was tell the truth.
“The WORD of GOD is the judge, and the WORD is only judging those who are practicing those particular sin.”
Homosexuals are the only people being judged? So the liars, fornicators, murderers, etc. are all safe? Homosexuality is a sin that is greater than any other sin?
If all of the bisexual and homosexual people left the church, there would be very few people there.
I am not sure if we are reading the same bible.
TO REALLY?: Let’s do get real; The Word of God is laid out explicitly in Leviticus 20:13 and Romans 1:32. Please note this is the only group of people God decrees are worthy of death:
“If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltiness is upon them.” Leviticus 20:13
“And, although they know the ordinance of God, that those who practice such things are worthy of death, they not only do the same, but also give hearty approval to those who practice them.” Romans 1:32
These Scriptures in no way exonerate the female; she is dealt with on equal ground in Romans 1:26:
“For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is UNnatural…”
MORE FUEL FOR THE FIRE from Psalm 58:3-
“The wicked are estranged from the womb; these who speak lies go astray from birth; and from Revelation 21:8 - “But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”
Obviously a previous post struck a nerve within you. But not to worry, the entrance of God’s Word brings light. Read / study the entire books of Leviticus and Romans. The New Testament is just the fulfilling of the Old. This way you may be willing to study and assimilate the whole counsel of God and live! # # #
So, are you saying that it would be a problem if people who practice sinful lifestyles leave the church?
To further extend this train of thought: Are you saying that we should accept more unrepentant homosexuals, liars, fornicators, murderers, etc. because the number of people in church is an important thing?
How about making church the place for sinners who have REPENTED of their sin and recieved Christ as their savior? That would be kind of novel in liberal American Christianity (yet biblical) .
Errr……….perhaps if Joel had been ASKED about liars, fornicators,murderers, etc, we would be discussing how he danced like a delicate ballerina around those issues.
He wasn’t asked about those issues………..he was asked about salvation through Jesus Christ alone, and homosexuality. We are responding to his impression of Swan Lake rather than answering the questions he was asked as a minister is commanded to.
BTW………….”Thou dost protest too much” sprang immediately to mind as I read your hysterical post.
Your assertion that “If all of the bisexual and homosexual people left the church, there would be very few people there” is an exercise in errata.
Most reliable research puts the homosexual population at around 2-3 percent. Kinsey, after focusing his research on prostitutes and prisoners, only came up with 10%……….which is widely renounced these days, BTW.
So……….even if we use Kinsey’s wildly inflated numbers, only 10% of the church would leave. My math……..rusty though it may be…….leaves the church with 90% of the parishoners left with buttocks firmly planted upon the pews. Better estimates leave 97-98% there. How is that “very few people”??
Also…………I don’t recall anyone assigning greater sin-status to homosexuality. Please quote the relevant post that claimed such.
As I said, this seems to have hit a particular nerve with you. Your post is nothing short of an apoplectic rant. Care to discuss the issue, and see if we are indeed “reading the same Bible”??
Yes liars, fornicator, murderers,etc never say that it’s (MN: their own behavior?) not a sin. But the homosexuals are the one that say that it’s (their behavior?) not a sin.
(MN: I think what he is trying to say is liars, fornicators and others recognize and admit that their behavior is wrong/sinful. Homosexuals, on the other hand, do not see their behavior as sinful. Did I get that right Mr. Wynn? )
yes that is what i am saying
THE WORD IS CLEAR and STATES IN jOHN 12:48 he THAT rejecteth ME AND RECEIVETH not MY WORDS hath one that JUDGETH him: the WORD that I HAVE SPOKEN the SAME SHALL JUDGE him in the last day. All the nay sayers to the WORD IS FIGHTING THE ONE WHO INSPIRED THE BOOK I AMMMMM!!! YOu know who they are the MODERN DAY pharisees and the scribes the ones who know the way wink GOD SAID LET HIM BE TRUE AND EVERY MAN A LIAR ROMANS 3:4
Really?
Don’t get hostile. Let me clarify it for you: The WORD of GOD that deals with sin, ALL sin, is the ultimate judge for those who believe it. I chose homosexuality as an example, not to magnify it as “the sin of all sins”. It is not. It was my example. Lying lips are an abomination to GOD as well…is that more palatable for you?!? “Those particular sins” were not just homosexuality. I meant ALL sins”…..you understand?
Really?
I think you might be jumping the gun a litle bit. Prayerwarrior was speaking in reference to homosexuality. This wasn’t about fornicators, muderers, liars, etc.
As for your poll about the church, it’s sounds nice, but where are your stats for such a claim.
Sounds like you just tried to pick a fight, eh?
I just wanted some input. LOL
Thank you Sincere and GaryV. I only chose homosexuality and rejection of CHRIST as SAVIOR because that is what Larry asked Pastor Joel to answer definitively and he did not. All sin is a “stench to the nostrils of GOD.” I think we can all agree on that. Provided we are not still choosing to practice sin (hello!?!)
just when you think it couldnt get crazier, someone at the mothership of the pimps is taking a crack at them: http://www.ministrytodaymag.com/blog/2006/09/dear-word-faith-friends.html
I like the mothership theme cause they have LEFT their FIRST LOVE Revelations 17-18 says it best And upon her forehead was a name written MYSTERY BABYLON THE GREAT THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH
Isaiah 58:1 says, “Cry aloud, spare not, lift up thy voice like a trumpet, and shew my people their transgressions, and the house of Jacob their sins.”
Nathan’s heart went out to King David. The king had made some bad decisions. Even though he wasn’t actually aware of it, he had messed up, and God wanted to help him. David had had an affair, and then he tried to remedy the problem himself. What had happened was unfortunate, and the prophet saw his job as one who was there to help bring some sort of healing to the situation.
He began his message by gently explaining to the king the good news that there was something missing from his life. That missing piece was “real and lasting peace,” or as someone once put it, there was a “God-shaped vacuum” in his heart. It was the good news that God had a wonderful plan for the king’s life, and that He wanted him to experience that plan.
What the prophet was steering towards was a moment of “decision.” Would the king respond to this incredible offer that God had made him, or would he reject it?
To help the king, Nathan psychologically prepared him by telling him what he was going to do. He had said that in a few moments he would want him to respond by coming forward. The prophet had learned that this would help the king move closer to the decision he needed to make.
To help further, Nathan had David and the guards that stood around his throne, close their eyes. This would help to make sure that the king felt a little less self-conscious about his decision when he did come forward.
David, like King Saul, had a personal musician close by, so as Nathan continued to speak, he nodded to the musician to begin to play some appropriate music. Even though the song was very moving, there was no movement from David. Nathan nodded to the skilled performer to play the tune again and then again as he pleaded with David to respond.
To help him further, the prophet let him know that if he did come he had prearranged with one of the king’s guards to come forward with him–to stand alongside him in support.
Still the king didn’t make a move. Nathan gently reminded him that no one was watching him, and that every eye was closed. He again spoke of the incredible offer God had made to him.
Suddenly, it seemed that David was convinced about this new life that could be his, if he would just respond. He began to move slowly forward, and as he did, one of the closest guards gently took him by the arm and walked with him.
It was a very emotional moment. It was so touching that the rest of the guards couldn’t contain themselves. They burst into joyful applause. David smiled slightly at their gesture of support. The guards smiled. So did Nathan. There was great joy. This was what it was all about . . .
Not quite. God hadn’t instructed Nathan to talk to the king about a “God-shaped vacuum in his heart,” or to talk about real peace, or of improving his life. He was there to reprove a devious murderer who had despised God’s commandment and committed adultery with another man’s wife. As a married man, the king had burned in lust after another woman, and knowing that she herself was married, he had illicit sexual intercourse with her, caused her to become pregnant with his child, and then as if that wasn’t bad enough, he had her loving and faithful husband murdered, and married her himself. He had carefully covered his terrible sin, but as far as God was concerned, his wicked hands were dripping with innocent blood.
What an awful betrayal it would have been if the prophet had reduced the king’s horrible crimes against a holy God to insignificance, by talking to him about a new and better life that could be his.
But Nathan didn’t pervert the message. He told the king about a man who stole another man’s pet lamb and slaughtered it, and when David became indignant, he said, “You are that man!” Then he said, “Why have you despised the commandment of the Lord!” and when David cried, “I have sinned,” Nathan then gave him the good news of God’s mercy and grace.
There was no mention of a vacuum in the heart, no music to stir the emotions, no deceptive psychological manipulation, no closing of the eyes to make things easier. David was a devious law-breaker. He was a conniving criminal. He was a man who had deliberately violated the moral Law, but God was willing to show him mercy.
It was the king’s breach of God’s Law that shaped the prophet’s message, and it’s the sinner’s breach of that same Law that should shape our message. We too have the same commission–to “reprove and rebuke” those who have despised God. We are to preach the Word, be in season and out of season, and to “reprove, rebuke and exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine” (2 Timothy 4:2). In the sight of God every sinner is a devious criminal, but neither the Church nor the world will see that as being true without the Law to show sin as being “exceedingly sinful” (see Romans 7:7-13).
The sinner enthrones himself as a king, enrobed in the filthy garments of self-righteousness. He commits adultery in his lust-filled heart. His throat is an open sepulcher. His mouth is full of cursing and bitterness. There is no fear of God before his eyes. He lies, steals, blasphemes and hides murder in his heart–and in doing so he sins against a holy God and stores up His wrath. He has a desperately wicked heart, and a multitude of sins which he thinks his Creator doesn’t see. The Bible tells us that God is filled with indignation and wrath, and promises that He will bring tribulation and anguish upon every soul of man that does evil (see Romans 2:5-9).
We have such a wicked heart, without the light of the Law we reduce sin to insignificance and trivialize the claims of the Divine Prosecution. The modern message is a betrayal of our commission, and a victory for the enemy. Like the Pharisees, contemporary preachers prefer their traditions to the truth of God’s Word. They cling to the security blanket of closed eyes, emotional music, psychological manipulation, misguidedly pleading with wicked criminals about the promise of a wonderful new life in Christ.
Such folly is perhaps the greatest deception of the last days. It is to do the work of the enemy, by planting tares alongside the wheat. An unbiblical Law-less gospel will almost certainly produce lawless converts–”workers of iniquity” who the Bible warns will be cast out of the gates of Heaven into the waiting jaws of Hell (see Matthew 7:21-24).
A forsaking of biblical evangelism has left our churches looking and acting just like the world. This has happened because our pulpits have reduced the glorious gospel of God’s grace to a 30-minute low budget infomercial, peddling the Word of God as a competing product for life enhancement.
If you have been trusted with a pulpit, or if you are someone who cares about the lost, please stop this insanity. Don’t think of the use of the Law as a “method,” or look for “results” as a legitimate criterion to measure its worth. Our churches are filled with misleading “results.” The impressive numbers are the product of unbiblical methods. The use of the Law brings the knowledge of sin… Jesus and Paul used it, (see Luke 10:17, Romans 2:20-24). Ask the question “Is this principle biblical?” and if it is, instigate it, and then leave the numbers game up to God.
Again….why don’t you guys do something else with your time. I read your responses. they are so minute it doesn’t get a response. But I wish you brothers the best.
Why is Joel Osteen called “Willow Boy?”
(MN: Because he has no backbone, as demonstrated in the Larry King interview. He is a willow boy, something that sways in the lightest of winds. Martin Luther, Calvin, Tyndale and the rest are Oaks. John MacArthur is at least a thick pine tree. )
mel, why is John MacArthur just a thick pine tree and not an oak? i saw him on larry king a coupla times, and he always took a consistent stand for the gospel of Jesus Christ when questioned about certain issues.
(MN: Only because he’s not dead. He still has time to screw up or lose heart. Give him another fifty to a hundred years and what’s left of the church will probably be saying the same thing about him. )
Nice response Melvin, on multiple levels. Look at what Billy Graham has done with the passing years. His ecumenism and increasing abandonment of Scripture has whittled him down from mighty oak to swaying pine. This may seem harsh, but I pray God takes him home before he can do any more damage. Won’t be long before he’s competing with Joel to see who can sway the farthest.
It’s not how we begin, but how we END that ultimately matters.