Al (a reader out there) is an evil man who doesn’t have enough sense to not touch God’s Anointed. He had the nerve to suggest I show this video about Marjoe, a preacher from the late fifties and sixties. (I just thought I’d put that in in case someone out there wanted AGAIN to tell me that I should not touch God’s anointed)
But I do want to warn you. If you are into people like Juanita Bynum, Creflo, Eddie Long, and my main man Robert Tilton, you shouldn’t watch this video. If you watch it, you will not have much of an excuse to continue to defend the pimps and pimpettes who continue to live off of your desire to be obedient to God. In fact, you will begin to see (if you haven’t already) that the pimps operating today are doing nothing more than copying the use of a “Jesus Veneer” to take your money and have you thank them for taking it. Listen to Marjoe and see if you hear familiar patterns in his presentation. Listen to what he himself said he did and see if you recognize the mechanics of the presentation of any of the current crop of pimps and hucksters.
The only difference I can see between Marjoe and Hinn is the fact that Hinn is a much better dresser.
Good work for mentioning this video again Al.
I remember seeing the full-length documentary of “Marjoe” back in 1979 when I first got saved, which was also the year that the Rev. Jim Jones led nearly a thousand people in his church to commit suicide. Needless to say, ‘79 apparently was a rough year for a new christian. I wonder if there’s a DVD copy of Marjoe floating around somewhere. I think this would be a rude awakening for those blind followers who are hypnotized by people like Gortner, Hinn and the whole bunch. But sadly, their following is not likely to be diminished at all, for it seems as though if ONE person’s eyes become opened, 10 more gullible souls will take their place. Just like roaches…if you kill ONE..there’s about 10,000 more that lurk, and still, the phrase “Touch not mine anointed” will continue to resonate from the lips of the scripturally-illiterate.
I remember the Jones Temple thing. I was still in Germany preparing to return to an Air Force Base in the US. A lot of people started using the “Drink your Koolaid” phrase in relation to Christianity and obedience to the Bible.
I would incourage everyone to find the documentary and purchase it. I saw it in 1990 after just getting saved. Maybe the study group leader was trying to warn us back then.
Just finished watching Marjoe again(the entire documentary) and I must say if you did not know it was 1972 you would think it was 2006. Nothing has changed in the way these guys of today work the crowd as opposed to back then. Interesting point that Marjoe brought out is that you have to have a gimmick to get the people to buy into your scheme. He said once he had some oil that he would mark a cross on his forhead and when he began to sweat the cross turned to blood and the people were amazed and bought into his scheme. Another thing that struck me was he was eating dinner and talking with a local pastor and he even referred to con artists coming into churches scheming the people and he and the pastor laughed it off. And get this, the pastor was talking about him and his wife wanting to see a particular part of the world while on vacation and WANTED MARJOE TO TAKE OVER HIS CHURCH while he and the wife were away. Talk about leaving the mouse to guard the cheese!!
In one part they were taking an offering and the local (female) Pastor took an offering to rival that of Jakes. She got them so worked up that they THREW MONEY AT THE ALTER. Hmm, who does this sound like? I felt so bad for all those saints and especially the ones that after marjoe laid hands on them, they were shakinging all over the floor. I would encourage each of you, especially the one who defends these preachers(I didn’t call then pimps) to take a look at the CD and see if you see anything familiar. I found a copy at the library as I was gonna order a copy. As I state awhile back, I saw this film in 1990 and back then I didn’t know what I know now, so this time the film made more sense.
SadSadSad………..Gortner wasn’t the first, and he won’t be the last. I do wonder, however, how many of the current Pimp Squad are unvarnished con men like Gortner, and how many are simply so deceived that they genuinely believe they are doing God’s will……..
I saw this clip a few months ago. I also saw another which was a presentation pieced together called “Televangelist”. I will have to link it to you guys when I find it again on YouTube. I remembered to show Pastor John, but forgot about PP. Sorry.
Good post Mel.
I was reviewing this recently myself. Mentioned it here a week or 2 back in a rant. At least Gortner was being honest when he made his documentary and ‘outed’ some of his compatriots. It’s not his fault his parents raised him to do this.
Still, it’s a warning to ‘customers’ of the pimps that they are nothing more than being exploited. Calls from the pulpit of “give it all” or permutations like that asking the congregation to constantly sow seed (but only in this ministry) and make countless tithes and offerings at the expense of their own well being should be a dead give away sign that the pimps simply don’t care about them one bit.
There’s sevral sites on Gortner that I recommend people look into. (MN: Give us the sites! )
One of the comments I’ve read of his is about how he’d help a person get saved during one revival and see them full of joy due to it and then a few years later, return and see that same person intolerant and hateful, full of ’spiritual pride’.
I was talking to my wife last night (ex-WofF cultist) and she stated that the congregation was taught constantly to MILITANTLY defend the pastor from all attacks. It was to the point that if you went in and blasphemed against God directly with an unbroken string of profanity and sacrilege, they wouldn’t bat an eyelash. But, say anything even remotly capable of being construed as an attack on their pastor and they’d want to literally beat your head in. I recall this myself last year after she walked out on my to go to them when her friends gave me a ride to work. I tried to engage them in a conversation about religion and how I thought some of the stuff their pastor said wasn’t biblically supported in the least and they got extremely irrate and threatened to kick me out of the car in the middle of nowhere at 3 am.
I’m awaiting the day one of the pimps accidently forgets himself and turns into a giant serpent on TV like Thusla Doom did in the Conan movie.
Does anyone have any info on that Dateline special last night about hell? Bishop Pearson pretty much lost everything since he believes that no matter how u live u will get into heaven
I saw part of it. Apparently he lost everything because of his doctrinal beliefs and was invited to a church that the pastor is gay and they ministered to him, washed his feet and he was apparently emotionally healed by that experience - I was on the phone so I didn’t hear everything but I did tape it and I’m going to watch it tonight…..
I saw the special last night. You can go to the NBC Dateline website and see clips of the section with Pearson.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3032600/
Man…that dude is off his biblical rocker.
I know I should pray for him, but just reading that, makes it really hard to want to.
Sorry guys, just speaking my mind.
pray for me,
PL
IT IS NOT THE MALE ALONE who has been and is continuing to be the false prophet, liar, thief, respecter of persons, licentious, reviler of things which he doesn’t understand, whoremonger, and deceiver, ad infinitum.
Evil women are highlighted in the Bible under temptresses: Eve, Delilah, Jezebel, Zeresh (Haman’s wife), Job’s wife, Herodias and Salome, and an assortment of “strange women.” Harlots are not excluded either. Since there is nothing new under the sun, read what the LORD GOD told Ezekiel to prophesy to Jerusalem. Put on your thinking caps and remember back when; the operative word here is “sew”:
Woe to the women who sew magic bands on all wrists, and make veils for the heads of persons of every
stature to hunt down lives! Will you hunt down the lives of My people, but preserve the lives of others for
yourselves? And for the handfuls of barley and fragments of bread, you have profaned ME to My people to
put to death some who should not die and to keep others alive who should not live, by your lying to My
people who listen to lies”‘” Ezekiel 13:18-19
And Jezebel his wife said to him, “Do you not reign over Israel? Arise, eat bread, and let your heart be
joyful; I will give you the vineyard of Naboth the Jezreelite.” So she wrote letters in Ahab’s name and
sealed them with his seal, and sent letters to the elders and to the nobles who were living with Naboth
in his city….Now she wrote….let them testify against him, saying, ‘You cursed God and the king,’ then
take him out and stone him to death….” And it came about when Jezebel heard that Naboth had been
stoned….Jezebel said to Ahab, “Arise, take possession of the vineyard of Naboth….which he refused to
give you for money….” that Ahab arose to go down to the vineyard of Naboth the Jezreelite to take
possession of it. 1 Kings 21:1-15
The word of the Lord came to Elijah the Tishbite, saying,… “Surley there was no one like Ahab who
sold himself to do evil in the sight of the Lord, because Jezebel his wife incited him. 1 Kings 21:25
Sound familiar? This same “Marjoe in Pants” suggested over TBN that “we” should joyfully empty out our bank accounts and send the money to Paul and Jan Crouch. And at the beginning of her ministry–took pride in wearing homemade scarves, flowing robes, and other nonsensical garments of wrath in public. Don’t get me wrong: homemade can be fabulous if it is skillfully sewn, and one-of-a-kind (I know, I sew).
These wives of the wolves and pimps featured on this web site are foul examples to women everywhere. They are in every respect exactly like the ones mentioned above. In the case of Paula White, Joyce Meyer, and “Marjoe in Pants” their husbands follow them INSTEAD OF FOLLOWING THE GOD-PRESCRIBED ORDER OF MARRIAGE AND MINISTRY.
These teach up and coming pimpettes, prophetesses, and temple prostitutes to pervert the Gospel. Some live in your cities and states. They are not hard to spot once you hear their familiar “pitch.”
Sisters, we are special in the heart of God, our Father and fashioner. Exercise your God-given BY REASON OF USE! If you are married, follow your husband as he follows Jesus Christ. If you are unmarried but desire a Godly marriage, make your request known unto GOD alone and wait patiently for HIM to send him. In the meanwhile, prepare yourself by studying to show yourself approved unto GOD because, those who wait on the LORD will not be ashamed. Continue to ask, seek and knock. This does not mean going out dressed solicitously but in modest (& modern ï?Š) apparel. Nor does this mean joining a matchmaking club. Let men behold your chaste conversation coupled with fear. Being wise in heart, stretch out your hands to the poor and needy. Maintain your house in order.
Seek GOD alone in all decisions–great and small. Be wholly devoted to GOD in spirit, soul, and body, because JESUS has already loosed you. JESUS is your only door to the FATHER. No decaying, self-aggrandizing, odious flesh can “loose” you. If you are surrounded by foolish talking sisters who speak today’s “church vernacular,” words without knowledge or wisdom, and are striving after the wind in their quest to be heard by the masses; if your “girlfriends” continue to chase false prophets and prophetesses, pulpit pimpettes, and temple prostitutes, run as in stark terror. The Bible says, “Bad company corrupts good morals” (1 Corinthians 15:3). Leave the presence of these fools and draw closer to GOD. Guess what? He’ll draw closer to you. Agape!
That was a beautiful post Beryle……..
First of all just because a women teaches and preaches the word of God does not make her a pim pette whatever you call the bible did not say women are going to hell for wearing earrings Jesus didnt die to send us to hell over little petty things futher more God’s holy spirit can use whom he choose he said ill pour out my spirit on all flesh also there is neither male or female greek or jew in God’s sight he’s sovereign and use whom he choose
(MN: The police are here. They demand you release all the punctuation marks you’re holding hostage. They’re not going to pay the ransom. )
LOL!
mn, LOL release the punctuation marks. hahaha gary re: his comment about the grammar demon. i can’t take it. LOL
TO k t:
According to the 31st Chapter of Proverbs, teaching and preaching by a woman should begin at home—with her children. IF SHE IS NOT UNEQUALLY YOKED, she should study with, ask, and learn about things of God from her husband. The husband has been given the prime responsibility of holding the house together, if you will; the “house band.” The wife is the “help mate.”
1 Peter 3:1—”Likewise, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands; that, if any [husband] obey not the word, they also may without the word be won BY THE CONVERSATION [walk} of the wives; (2) while they behold [watch] your chaste conversation coupled with fear.”
· Women are to fear the lord—Proverbs 31:30
· Women are to be hospitable—2 Kings 4:10 and
· Women are to be wise-hearted AND liberal—Exodus 35:25 and Proverbs 14:1
· Women are to help the poor and the needy—Proverbs 31:20
· Women may minister to the spreading of the Gospel from their substance BUT THIS COMES THROUGH BEING WISE OF HEART, WHICH IS SUBJECT TO ONE’S SPIRIT!!! Women must be careful to minister to those in NEED not those in GREED!!!!!!!! This, too, comes through being wise of heart.
· Women should be virtuous—Proverbs 12:4 and 31:10
· Women are called to be wives, homemakers, and protectors of the home—Proverbs 31:15, Luke 10:40, and 1 Samuel 25:18
· Women are called to be mothers—1 Samuel 2:19
· Women may work in the True Church; general examples are Priscilla in Acts 18:26 and Romans 16:3;Phebe in Romans 16:1-2; Philippians 4:3. These women were co-laborers with Paul.
Prophetesses (simply put, mouthpieces of the Lord; one who is sent BY THE LORD with a specific message for the specific time(s)):
Anna (Luke 2:36)—a widow who devoted herself to attending temple services and praised the fulfillment of the Divine promise.
Deborah (Judges 4:4; wife of Lapidoth)—the people came to her for judgment; no “church” sent her out!
Huldah (2 Kings 22:14-20; 2 Chronicles 34:22-28; wife of Shallum)—The king at the time, SENT the priest, the scribe, and others to consult with here; again, no “church” sent her out!
Miriam (Exodus 15:20-21)—According to Josephus, she was the wife of Hur; neither was she sent out
Noadiah (Nehemiah 6:14)—Sided w/Tobiah and Sanballat against the Prophet of God, Nehemiah; definitely NOT sent—she just went!
The Daughters of Philip—four (4) in number were “virgins which did prophesy,” according to Bible history.
In closing, please note three characteristics of the prophetesses of the Bible according to Bible history: (a) ALL of them were married women, (b) of these, specific reference is made to the husbands being prophets, and (c) the four daughters of Philip were virgins. NOT ONE OF THE PROPHETESSES WAS SENT OUT BY A PERSON OR “CHURCH”; people were sent to them, though their gifting of prophetess was of God, and (d) it’s interesting to note that several of today’s self-proclaimed loose cannons, and infamous profitesses were/are UNMARRIED while performing in public as a profitess, (e) those who WERE/ARE married cannot be virgins. Those who are married have husbands who sit on the sidelines with other “titles,” but really are Caspar Milquetoasts and together comprise at least one third of the pimpettes and their pimps. ###
Nice Thoughts, Mrs.Beryle……thanks for sharing, for I thought it really helped to break it down as to what the role of a true “Prophetess” of God should resemble…..
Blessings…….(and again, appreciate the “Equilibrium” Label)!!!
TO Double G: You’re welcome Son!
If you like Marjoe, can’t wait till to hear your opinion on bad language spittin’, yellow pages readin’ “Spirit of Truth”…..
Warning - strong language……
(MN: I ran across him when I first discovered YouTube. A little too strong. Folks will have to find him on their own. But thanks for letting them know that bozos like that are out there. The fellow reminds me a little too much of Tony Compollo (sp?). The subject preacher is on Youtube. You will have to find him yourself. But do be careful. His language, while interspersed with Jesus, is really foul. )
http://www.youtube.com/
I was so disturbed and hurt when I saw this video clip. To think that this man is playing with God and his people. The blood will truly be on his hands.
The only response I could come up with is that we need a praying church in these times. I encourage everyone to take a few minutes (make sure you have about 25 minutes free) to view this sermon offered by Rev. H Beecher Hicks Jr. from Metropolitan Baptist Church in Largo MD (formerly of Washington DC)…Melvin please post this site, as I think is a perfect answer to what we truly need in these trying times as a church.
(I was especially moved by the last five minutes or so of the sermon and the altar call). Make sure you view “The Power of a Praying Church”
http://www.streamingfaith.com/directory/odc.aspx?ProgramId=1014286
Why does the sign in page give pictures of Fa$t Eddie and Ca$hflow????
Is this guy Marjoe still alive? I feel that he did a good thing by exposing this. It looks very familiar, we’ve all experienced this or have seen such on TV. It’s an exploitation of people’s hope. If this mess takes place in your church and you don’t fall for it, the church folks will treat you like an outcast. That’s what keeps a lot of people from leaving such stuff.
I have often wondered, How do you get rich off of something that is free? I think his name is J Vernon McGee who once said “anytime you see a rich preacher, watch out”. Isn’t the word free? So are the Gifts.(if you believe in the Gift as I know some on this site do not believe but we won’t debate that issue)
I know how you get rich off of something that is free…call every monetary exchange for a sermon series on CD or DVD or a trinket of some sort a “love gift.” Then, find an audience who don’t study their bibles and blindly accepts what a pimpin’ preacher tells them about “tithing” and “sowing $1000 seeds”, and VIOLA…you got wealthy preachers who wear impeccable suits, fly in private jets, stay in $2,000 per night hotel suites, live in immaculate mansions, and drive custom Rolls Royces…ALL FROM THE “FREE” GOSPEL OF JESUS CHRIST.
Jesus told the disciples, “Freely you have received…FREELY give.” Maybe the pulpit pimps don’t believe that applys to them.
I actually saw a clip of Reverend Potty-mouth on an internet clip show.
It never ceases to amaze me//////
Are you a believer of Jesus Christ? Is Jesus your Lord and Savior?
(MN: Since you didn’t click on the “respond to this comment” link, we have no idea who you are talking to. You will have to specify who your question is going to. )
http://youtube.com/watch?v=849kw_X4OGg
http://youtube.com/watch?v=44cceWK4X_M
http://youtube.com/watch?v=TkSkkM1ZQW8
http://youtube.com/watch?v=WjTSyztlV3w
http://youtube.com/watch?v=Nrg7L5eyMxI
http://youtube.com/watch?v=T_9ZgqlSQqA
This dude is FUNNY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ENJOY
CONFIRMATION is in order right here: I just heard Pastor Tony Smith digress on “Marjoe in Pants” and continue on into the inability of a certain local “mand-of-god” ( JB’s idom) who cur$e$ in the pulpit then apologize$ later becau$e he “ju$t got mad.” Well, I WA$ $itting in the congregation when thi$ mand-of-god began verbally $courging the congregation becau$e the finance$ that were $uppo$ed to have been brought in–Fir$t Fruit$ or $ome other $atanic hype–fell far $hort of hi$ expectation$. The diatribe went something like thi$, and I mu$t paraphra$e: “I’m the pa$tor of thi$ church and I $et the goal$ and vi$ion$ for thi$ congregation; if anybody in here don’t like it, GET THE HELL OUT OF HERE!” This last phrase is NOT paraphrased. That was a 7:30 Sunday Morning Service folks and I don’t know if he ever apologized for that gem. (There were many other instances of cursing, but not that blatant, that I know of.) I have never seen in the Scriptures where we are to “apologize” for anything. But it is written, “Out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks.” EPILOGUE: I left that country club for good and that was approximately 3-4 years ago. I asked the Holy Spirit make intercession for me concerning this outfit because He prays according to the will of God.
I have watched ‘Pastor’ Tony on numerous occasions on video tube, and my spirit cannot tolerate him nor what he has to say. He is NOT operating under the spirit of Christ. He is simply using an occasion to cuss. It is not of God. Do not entertain this folks. The spirit of Jesus Christ is one of love. How many of you are praying for those in ministry? I agree, these are the last days we need to be careful, there are false teachers around. However, let everything be done in decency and in order. God Bless you, Love in Christ!
Calvin,
Tony Smith does have a few nuggets of truth in some of the things that he says (like his assessment of the Catholic church, the JonBenet pageant foolishness, etc). However, these nuggets get overshadowed by statements like the one about ‘GI Joe needs to repent”. Also, his “Amen corner” (the 2 dudes behind him”) is a hoot! Tony Smith: “Who’s gon’ say somethin’ bout it?” Amen Corner (in unison): “Not many!” Like I said before, he does interject some truth into his rants/sermons, but manages to thwart his own efforts. Two things I take away from this: 1) good English counts and 2) Don’t try to convict ficticional TV characters into repentance. (GI Joe and everyone from Mayberry..) LOL
just watched Tony Smith..Melvin check him out…it wa a good laugh before i go to bed..
Are we to “judge” teachings, situations, and even people in the church? Many Christians are fearful of making judgments, and unclear if this is the mission and duty of the church. After all: “Judge not!…” (We will consider hypocritical judgment, or criticism, in a moment.) This fear of using proper judgment may come from a simple lack of understanding of God’s will, or from superstition (Col 2:18-19), or even from a lack of the Holy Spirit (Jude 17-19). Scripture is useful for correcting such conditions (2 Tim 3:16-17).
1 Cor 5:12-6:6 (Phi) Those outside the church it is not my business to judge. But surely it is your business to judge those who are inside the church–God alone can judge those who are outside… When any of you has a grievance against another, aren’t you ashamed to bring the matter to be settled before a pagan court instead of before the church? Don’t you know that Christians will some day judge the world? And if you are to judge the world do you consider yourselves incapable of settling such infinitely smaller matters? Don’t you know that we shall judge the very angels themselves–how much more then matters of this world only! In any case, if you find you have to judge matters of this world, why choose as judges those who count for nothing in the church? I say this deliberately to rouse your sense of shame. Are you really unable to find among your number one man with enough sense to decide a dispute between one and another among you, or must one brother resort to the law against another; and that before those who have no faith in Christ!
Melvin, I was on youtube and ran across a Keneth Hagin and Keneth Copeland video having to do with “holy laughter” it’s scary to look at! First Corithians chapter 14 verse 23 comes to mind!!
Here’s the tape Elliot is referring to. Maybe some of you can explain to me how the Body was edified in this display of foolishness. Take a look at the man in the yellow tie and his wife for a flaming display of either suggestiveness or kissing up. I don’t know which.
Wow. This makes me think of the 1960-61 film, “Elmer Gantry” starring Burt Lancaster. I believe he won the best actor Oscar for playing a bootleg “preacher” in the film. In cases such as this, I always try to remember that the Word of God stands alone, no matter if the preacher is real or fake (using the word for personal gain). The power to save is in Jesus’ name, not in the name of the manipulative “preachers.” Now, once true light comes, I will hopefully do what is right for my soul seek out sound doctrine and truth, and not just an emotional, feel-good experience…just a thought.
Well, I was front-row center for this sort of foolishness for 2 years at Rhema. Ken Copeland, Jesse Duplantis, Jerry Savelle, Rodney Howwierd Brown, “Dad” Hagin, Oral Roberts, Benny Hinn………seen ‘em all.
Watched a ton of this……..and was viewed as sub-spiritual because I couldn’t bring myself to “jump in the river”, or have a drink on the “Holy Ghost Bartender”.
Funny thing was………all these folks having these super-spiritual encounters with the Living God never seemed to be changed by it. You could find them later at the all-you-can-gorge-your-flesh-on buffet after service, engaged in coarse jesting and belly-busting plates of lard-soaked entrees.
It seemed curious to me that so many who became famous for “jumping in the river” at the drop of a prayer hankie could so rapidly revert back to the insatiable urge to gorge their flesh…….spiritually and carnally speaking……after having been transported only minutes before into the presence of The Divine.
Then it occurred to me…………why wouldn’t they gorge their physical flesh after one of these “services”??
They’d been gorging their flesh the entire time they were dancing, prancing,howling, and quaking during the “service”, so it was only natural that they left the church with their now awakened flesh screaming for more……..
Ummmmmm……….hey waitress…..is the all-you-can-eat ice cream bar included in the buffet???
Not to defend any of the aforementioned men or their doctrinal views, but I can only attest to my own experiences concerning spiritual laughter.
I was 18 or 19 when I received the baptism of the Holy Spirit. I had been seeking the Lord for that infilling for a while (Luke 11:11-13), because I knew that there had to be more to embracing Jesus than just the external symbolism of spiritual occurrences (i.e. water baptism, confessing Jesus Christ and repentance from dead works.) My pastor and other ministers were praying for us to receive the outpouring and suddenly I began to weep. I became totally aware of my wickedness before this Holy God.
I wept for a while and soon I began to speak with other tongues. The next thing that happened was nothing I had ever seen on T.V. or had ever even heard about. I began to laugh. It came out of a part of me that I didn’t even know was there!
It was the strangest thing I’d ever seen, as even the ministers standing around praying for me commented in surprise. The laughter went on for a while, but subsided as I tried to make sense and define in my head what was happening to me.
Since then, I’ve grown in my faith and only in rare instances have experienced the overflow of that joy. I can’t articulate why it occurs, but laughter is a product of joy: a fruit of the Holy Spirit.
People can have a brush with God’s glory, yet not follow Jesus in the way (Luk. 17:12-19). It’s known that there are wolves among us parading as sheep, and false brethren abound…
However, do you condemn prayer because muslims pray, or dancing because sinners dance? Pure expressions of faith aren’t invalidated because of man’s sinfulness. That’s not to say that every individual’s expression is genuine, but they are distinctive of each other.
The Pharisees blasphemed the Holy Spirit by deciding that Jesus and His disciples were using demonic power to cast out devils. He warned them that this kind of blasphemy could never be forgiven (Mar. 3:28 -30).
The gifts and the callings of God are without repentance (Rom. 11:29). Do you know what that means??? That means that some will be capable of operating in the power of God, though they be habitual sinners (Matt. 7:21-23).
So, I’m not going to warn you not to “touch” God’s anointed, or cry “judge not.”
BUT, before you carnal mindedly condemn spiritually discerned matters, be mindful that if you speak ill of the power being exemplified through these expressions as “foolish” or being of the “flesh,” you’ve gone beyond exposing “pimps” and condemning the actions of sinful men. Be careful how you stand lest you fall…
Your Servant
Dear Servant:
What you have described does not come from the Holy Spirit! Show me one example in all of holy writ that people were overcome with “Holy Laughter”. Also, the “Baptism” of the Holy Spirit you said you recieved did not come subsequent to Salvation, but, rather, during the point of your acceptance of Jesus into your heart and life! It is clear that you apparently are not doctrinally sound or theologically correct!
Just trying to Help You,
BT
You do err not knowing the Scriptures, nor the power of God. There is a voice (oracle, utterance) of God’s word (Deut. 4:12, 1Sam. 15:1b). Only ears to hear can hear what the Spirit is saying. (Mat. 11:15, 13:15; Rev. 2:7)
1. Laughter: an expression or appearance of merriment or amusement. The Holy Spirit manifests love, JOY, peace, etc (Gal. 5:22). Joy manifests in laughter, leaping, weeping, dancing, clapping, smiling, shouting, and the like (Luk. 1:44, 6:23). That’s one of the definitions of ‘rejoice.’ When it’s my carnal man laughing, my laughter will be based on carnal amusement. When it’s my quickened spirit rejoicing ‘exceedingly,’ it’ll manifest in one of the abovementioned ways. See: Act. 13:52; Rom. 12:15, 14:17; Phi. 4:10; 1Pe. 1:8.
2. Concerning the “baptism.” John prophesied that Jesus would baptize with the Holy Ghost ‘and’ with fire (Mat. 3:11). Jesus after his death and resurrection breathed on His disciples (CHRISTians) and said receive ye the Holy Ghost (John 20:22), but then told them (Act. 1:4-8) to wait until they be baptized with the Holy Ghost, “not many days hence.” They had to wait for the promise “from” the Father in heaven though He had already breathed on them to receive the Holy Ghost.
Acts 2:1 - The 120 waiting in the upper room received the fire of the Holy Ghost that “came from” (look that up in the original text) heaven, after they had already completed the requirement in Rom. 10:9, 10 to be saved (preserved in Christ). They had been baptized, and walking with Him.
Acts 8:12-18 , Philip preached the gospel to Samaria; they believed it and were baptized. You stated: the “Baptism” of the Holy Spirit you said you received did not come subsequent to Salvation, but, rather, during the point of your acceptance of Jesus into your heart and life!” But according to this text (verse 16), after “the point” these accepted Jesus into their hearts and lives and were baptized in His name, Peter and John had to (subsequently) come down and pray, laying hands on them so they could ‘receive’ the gift of the Holy Ghost! Philip was the one who brought about their conversion, yet he wasn’t the one to lay hands and impart the gift. Baptism is with the Holy Ghost ‘and’ with fire.
Simon, Saul (through Ananias), and those in Acts 19:6 witnessed that the Holy Ghost was and can be imparted through the laying on of hands. Again, beware lest your ignorance grieve the Holy Spirit (1Tim. 1:7), carelessly touching matters of the Spirit.
The Kingdom of God doesn’t just come with empty theology, but with power (1Cor. 2:4-5, 4:20).
TO DAVID W. In the mouth of 2 or 3 witnesses let every word [of GOD] be established. I, too, can only attest to my own experiences concerning spiritual laughter. Both our experiences originated from having heard the Gospel implanted in a straightforward way that resulted in soul salvation:
James 1:21 − “Therefore putting aside all filthiness and all that remains of wickedness, in humility receive the word implanted, which is able to save your souls.”
Colossians 1:5-6 − “We give thanks to God, the Father….since we heard of your faith [David W’s] in Christ Jesus….because of the hope laid up for you in heaven, of which you previously heard in the word of truth, the gospel, which has come to you just as in all the world also it is constantly bearing fruit and increasing, even as it has been doing in you also since the day you heard of it and understood the grace of God in truth.”
God confirms His own word. You said you became totally aware of your wickedness before this Holy God. Somewhere along the narrow road of your search for your only Hope, God manifested His word inside you, and you were filled with all joy:
Romans 15:13 ̶ “Now may the God of hope fill your with ALL joy and peace in believing, that you may abound in hope by the power of the Holy Spirit.”
Galatians 5:22 − “But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things, there is no law.”
I exhort you to seek out and study the whole counsel of God by meditating on 2 Peter Chapter Two, which warns believers about false prophets and false teachers among us.
2 Peter 2:1-3− “But false prophets also arose AMONG THE PEOPLE, just as there will also be false teachers AMONG YOU, who will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing swift destruction upon themselves. And many will follow their sensuality, and because of them the way of the truth will be maligned; AND IN THEIR GREEDTHEY WILL EXPLOIT YOU WITH FALSE WORDS; their judgment from long ago is not idle, and their destruction is not asleep.”
“If you want to handle a passage of Scripture accurately you must ALWAYS interpret it in the light of its context. Context simply means that which goes “with (con) the “text.” Context MUST always rule when it comes to interpretation. Identifying the author’s purpose for writing will help you discern the context of a passage. What the author says, he says in the light of the purpose for writing.”
QUOTE from Precept Ministries in Chattanooga, TN where the NASB was compiled by K. Arthur and staff:
“If you want to handle a passage of Scripture accurately you must ALWAYS interpret it in the light of its context. Context simply means that which goes “with” (con) the “text.” Context MUST always rule when it comes to interpretation. Identifying the author’s purpose for writing will help you discern the context of a passage. What the author says, he says in the light of the purpose for writing.”
Last, ALWAYS use Scripture to interpret Scripture−not opinions or flowery words of man’s wisdom. # # #
Thank you for the instruction, though nothing I said was out of context. Context isn’t simply based upon the purpose of the natural writers, surrounding verse, or time and place of writing (2Tim. 3:16). God is the author; men are the vessels (Psa. 45:1). God’s word comes as holy men speak as the Spirit gives them utterance (2Pe. 1:21). The fall of Lucifer (Is. 14:12-16; Ezek. 28:12-19) is contorted in other versions because they believed that scripture must be interpreted in such a light. So the prophetical aspect is ignored due to such men viewing the scripture without the light that comes from the Holy Ghost. While surrounding verses, word etymology, and purpose of natural author are important to understand texts, the Bible is a Spiritually discerned manuscript (1Cor. 2:12-16), transcending the culture, time, place, natural purpose, and academic perspective.
Quoting the publishers of the NASB isn’t the best idea, seeing as how 5 men of that committee who compiled the manuscripts from which they translated the NASB, have lost their ability to speak
The Bible says we compare spiritual things with spiritual, not scriptural with scriptural. I agree that we can explain virtually any point by comparing scriptural references, but it ultimately, is the Spirit that explains the scripture, not necessarily the scripture that explains the Spirit (Eph. 1:17-19).
Again, the main point of this post was “to seek out and study the whole counsel of God by meditating on 2 Peter Chapter Two, which warns believers about false prophets and false teachers among us” the nucleus of this web site. The rest indeed is acknowledgment of Romans 15:4 and 15:13. Finis!
DAVID: Brilliant deduction: “Quoting the publishers of the NASB isn’t the best idea, seeing as how 5 men of that committee who compiled the manuscripts from which they translated the NASB, have lost their ability to speak”
Therefore, QUOTING MEN MOVED BY THE HOLY SPIRIT WHO SPOKE FROM GOD isn’t the best idea either, seeing as how JAMES (Acts 12:2) was put to death “with the sword” (likely a reference to beheading).
Following are the most popular “church traditions” in regard to the deaths of other recorders of the Gospels:
MATTHEW suffered martyrdom in Ethiopia, killed by a sword wound.
JOHN faced martyrdom when he was boiled in a vat of boiling oil. He was miraculously delivered from death (no doubt to write his prophetic Book of Revelation on Patmos). John was later freed and died as an old man.
PAUL was first tortured then beheaded by Emperor Nero at Rome in A.D. 67.
PETER was crucified, upside-down on an X-shaped cross, in fulfillment of Jesus’ prophecy (John 21:18). # # #
Now Pearl, you know that dying from martyrdom is different than affliction such as an incurable and undifinable ’speachlessness’ of five separate men on one committee.
Remember when Paul cursed the guy who was trying to impead the progress of the gospel with blindness? (acts 13:8-11)
Rev. 22:18 lets us know that God isn’t okay with men tampering with the furtherance of the gospel.
ex: Colossians 1:14 -
Orig- In whom we have redemption “through his blood,” even the forgiveness of sins:
NASB- in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.
His blood’s gone…
ex. 2: 1 Tim. 3:16 -
orig.- God was manifest in the flesh
NASB - He who was revealed in the flesh
“He?”
Now THAT’S subtlety…
Thanks Beryle
AGREED: Good observation / comprehension; however, it’s still the SPIRIT Who gives life. That’s why GOD has allowed translators before and after the KJV to “tamper with” (your words, not mine)different translations of His Word. It is the SPIRIT Who gives life, John 6:63:
[JESUS speaking]: “But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes,…but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come. He shall glorify Me; FOR HE SHALL TAKE OF MINE, and shall disclose it to you.” John 16:13-14
Not to worry, “It is easier for heaven and earth to pass than one “jot nor tittle” of the law to fail.” Of course, the law Jesus is speaking of is the Law He was sent to fulfill.
So God entrusted His word to flesh-and-blood transcribers of the Original Manuscripts; The Most Ancient Copies; Ancient Copies; Ancient Versions; Vulgate, Wycliffe, Tyndale, Coverdale, Matthews, Great, Geneva, Bishops, KJV, and Douay Bibles; Revised Version, American Standard Version, and New American Standard Version of the Bible. If the Source of Wisdom counted us worthy to be birthed into His everlasting Kingdom, who are we to begin knitpicking about “words”? Afterall, you nor I were chosen to help write The Bible, only to study, observe to do, and proclaim its truths. The Spirit will do the refining of “whosoever will.” # # #
DAVID: Ah, ah, ah, ah, ah: The name is Beryl, NOT Pearl (though both are precious jewels–used to adorn and provide foundations). Please see:
Exodus 28:20 and 39:13; Song of Solomon 5:14; Ezekiel 1:16, 10:9, 28:13; Daniel 10:6; and Revelation 21:20. I was named after the daughter of the Jewish doctor who delivered me. I thank God who saw me in my blood, and cried out “Live!” So I’m just forever grateful, ’cause I had nothing whatsoever to do with this treasure in such an earthen vessel. Agape!
Sister Beryle,
You say “who are we to begin knitpicking about “words”?
Well, here is what the Bible says:
“Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.”2 Timothy 2:15
If the words are not worth nitpicking, why even bother contending for them? WHy does the NASB omit 1 John 5:7? Why does it omit Acts 8:37? Why does it remove Lucifer’s name from Isaian 14:12?
Heed the words of Dr. Frank Logsdon, who was on the NASB committee, who repented of his participation in this translation:
“I must under God denounce every attachment to the New American Standard Version. I’m afraid I’m in trouble with the Lord…We laid the groundwork; I wrote the format; I helped interview some of the translators; I sat with the translator; I wrote the preface. When you see the preface to the New American Standard, those are my words…it’s wrong, it’s terribly wrong; it’s frightfully wrong…I’m in trouble;…I can no longer ignore these criticisms I am hearing and I can’t refute them. The deletions are absolutely frightening…there are so many. The finest leaders that we have today haven’t gone into it new versions of Hort and Westcott’s corrupted Greek text just as I hadn’t gone into it…that’s how easily one can be deceived…Are we so naive that we do not suspect Satanic deception in all of this?”
Hello David!!
The laughter you are speaking about and the abject foolishness of Rodney Howard Browne are two vastly different things, brought about by two vastly different spirits.
I too have been overcome with joy in prayer and meditation and have found myself laughing. Or crying. Or trembling.
But to attempt to invoke laughter as RHB does, as an expression of “drunkenness”, without reverence, repentance, or anything remotely resembling spiritual worship, is innately carnal.
RHB spoke at MY church……….I saw him on one of his first visits to the States before this whole sham got rolling, and sat under it for 2 weeks at a Rhema Campmeeting. I know whereof I speak………and I have had ample opportunity to see the fruits.
No one grew spiritually from this that I have ever encountered……….and I have known hundreds who fell under its spell. It appeals to carnality, because carnality it is, and the fruits attest to that.
Also, your method of discrenment regarding the Scripture leaves you vulnerable to other such deceptions.
Yes, you “compare spiritual with spiritual”, agreed. But are we not to test the “spirit”?? And with what are we to accomplish this task?? Answer…….Scripture.
Scripture, David, is spiritual. That is the canon (rule Lat,) that we use, comparing the spiritual things we see with the spiritual things revealed to us in the Word.
Your method effectively leaves you with nothing to determine the spiritual source of anything you encounter. When you see something like the Holy Laughter movement for example, and since you cannot find anything in the Word to mirror it, what did you use to determine it was God ordained?? What ’spiritual” tool did you use that was not subject to your inherently finite understanding and subjectivity to deception??
It just “bore witness” in your spirit?? Was that it?? A mormon will tell you as much concerning their error, as would the dead of Jonestown.
You also quote 2Pet 1:21 out of context (not surprisingly), which is preceded by
“Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.”
Well certainly, if no prophecy of Scripture is of “private interpretation”, no prophecy or utterance or doctrine of these “ministers” is either. If we are to validate the prophecies in Scripture through the prism of God’s Word (lest we slide into error), are we not to also hold these doctrines of our modern “prophets” up to this same light?? Or are the words/deeds/doctrines of our modern day “prophets” so much as “surer Word of prophecy” that we only need to hold God’s Word up to such scrutiny………which of course means that Scripture is debased in comparison to these new prophesies, since they must comport with the known and revealed will of God, but the new are not held to the standard the old are………..in fact “private interpretation” and “a witness in the spirit” or other such nonsense are sufficient for such elevated utterances and practices, but the Word of God is not??
Where, pray tell, do you think your spirit should receive its witness from if not from the Word??
You, my friend, are ripe for deception.
I miswrote something: You can have the spirit without the scriptures… though you could never have the Spirit without having the scriptures…
I meant to say that we can have the scriptures without the Spirit, but not the Spirit without the scriptures.
Trusting in the leading of the Holy Spirit will never conflict with scripture. That’s the primary method I use to determine validity of things that occur. Jesus himself, His miracles, His teaching, the experiences of the disciples, the power given them and the inspiration of the Holy Spirit is what formed the Christian church. Not a bunch of scribes with scripture, walking about, unable to function in any spiritual gifting (1 Cor. 2:4-5) other than to pray/preach emotionally, or understand a text here and there.
The Old Testament didn’t literally speak of Jesus ordaining 12 disciples, the empowering of Jesus followers to cast out devils, the gift of tongues, or further letters written by such men. Though nothing Jesus or His disciples did contradicted the scripture. Not because He was reading it when He went home, but because He is the Word (John 1:1-4, 7:15).
The Word is Jesus Christ! The Bible is a compilation of things He spoke through yielded vessels. It should be referenced for such reasons as stated in 2 Tim. 3:16, 17. But, how did we even get church instruction? The apostles weren’t going based on letters Jesus left them, neither was Paul (who didn’t even walk with Him as a man). They were being led by the Spirit of God poured out upon them, trying their doctrine against other Spirit filled men (Acts 1:8, 15:13-21) with scripture ‘laying a foundation’ for what they did.
The Bible is a holy book only because in it are the words of God (Psa. 12:6,7). God never said He would stop speaking, moving, or operating through His church once a canon of scripture dictating church operation is compiled. The Holy Spirit guides the Church (John 16:7-14). Jesus didn’t prophecy of a book that would come! He spoke of His Spirit. The Spirit will lead us and explain scripture to and through us (2 Cor. 5:7). Scripture will back-up what the Spirit does because it’s one Spirit which does this.
John had a different relationship with Jesus than we do. Read 1 John 1:1-3. It won’t tell you that John sat down with the OT texts and formed doctrine based on his or other scholars’ findings. It tells you that we declare what ‘we’ve’ seen, heard, touched, and handled. Based on what you’re telling me, that’s not valid! John should’ve been mainly referencing Joel, Daniel, or Moses, and not speaking of his personal fellowship with the Lord. We walk by faith, and not by sight.
So, if a man receive the Holy Ghost and be led by Him, that man will find life (Rom. 8:14; 2 Cor. 1:21-22). Nothing done will “contradict” the scripture, because it’ll be based on the Spirit of the Word (Jesus). Laughing in your inner man is not a contradiction of scripture.
I cannot attest to your experiences with RHB, or WOF, but following the voice of the Lord is a sure foundation (Matt. 7:24), not an open door for deception. If false prophets are contradicting the Spirit of God’s truth, then we who follow Jesus and are sealed have: the discernment of the Holy Spirit, the Bible, and other anointed brothers. But the scriptures without the Spirit are a vacant house… You can have the spirit without the scriptures (Pharisees and scribes), though you could never have the Spirit without having the scriptures (Acts 4:13, 1 John 2:27). The Holy Ghost is all inclusive!
Scriptural knowledge isn’t truly what defends us from deception, only election does (Matt. 24:24).
Ay, I love you guys, ya’ll really sharpen a brother!
ANOTHER MIS-WRITE?
Which is it David, “the spirit,” (man’s), or the Spirit–third person of the Godhead?
APOLOGIES IN ORDER: Good Re-write, David!
Perhaps I misunderstood your intent…………it seemed you were putting the words of these men (or even anyone Spirit-filled) on a par with Scripture, or even above it because you seemed to want to test it by your spirit rather than the Word and the Tesimony.
If I did misunderstand,I apologize. If not………trouble ahead ;-))
Man, created in the image of God, is His chosen vessel of the preached gospel (Matt. 28:19, 2 Cor. 4:7). The Bible is a reference given so that (Beryle excellently pointing out Romans 15:4) “he that reads it may run with it.” It is the witness, voice, vision, and testimony of men of God, by God.
Now, we’re not Catholic and don’t believe that seemingly religious men or tradition may hold equal validity with the scriptures. Writing God’s word is like setting markers or landmarks in the road: it’ll guide you home when followed. But it didn’t write it self; Moses went to God, Isaiah was caught up to get it, Jesus was the Word, Peter had been with Jesus, and Paul had the Holy Ghost. Unless I’m mistaken, it seems very apparent that God used anointed men to write what they saw, heard, felt, and done: and we have their testimony. When God speaks, (in sundry times and diverse manners: Heb. 1:1) we’ll listen, or miss the boat (John 5:37-39).
Nothing we do should contradict the principles and guides laid out in scripture. However, God didn’t stop communicating Himself through men because the canon was closed. His word isn’t near us in our bibles, it’s near us in our mouths/hearts (Rom. 10:8; Matt. 13:52). Scripture is not exclusive of the Spirit of God operating through the Church, for it is ONE Spirit doing the talking.
Concerning deception: if you, or I, or any one of us aren’t “elect” of God, deception cannot be avoided. (Matt. 24:24; 2 Cor. 4:3-4).