I doubt anyone’s mind was changed from where they are (right PL?), but I do like the fact that we got such a wide ranging, non-knee-jerk, discussion.

However, I would like to close this posting for discussion - unless one or more of you strenuously object. Unfortunately, the next posting is not good news.

What you see today are “so called gospel (HHH) artists” who are conforming to the world. Let’s define “conform” and “transform”, and get the meaning from the dictionary and Thesaurus:

Dictionary: To correspond in form or character; be similar.
Thesaurus: accommodate, adjust, attune, comply, coordinate, fit, follow, harmonize, and integrate (there were more definitions but these few will do)
The key word to this verse is of course conform. Unless I am reading the verse wrong, it tells us to be different and not try to be like the world which is what I see (in style of dress and presentation).

And here is “transform”

Dictionary: To change markedly the appearance or form of; to change the nature, function, or condition of; convert
Thesaurus: about face, alter, commute, convert, cook, denature, do up, doctor, flip-flop, make over, and metamorphose

What I believe, is that we (as fallible humans) pick and choose what we want to do, and we deceive ourselves into thinking we are doing something good and in retrospect we are not. The point moreover, is more and more, the church is becoming like or integrating itself into the world system instead of being set apart, in order to be accepted. But Christ told us that when you follow him, persecution would happen because of who he is. Just try calling yourself a Christian in public these days will have scorn heaped upon you.

I do not see this happening with HHH (being different that is). It’s the same with different packaging.

Amen to that!

Peace.

NO, NO and NO.

Jeremiah said it best in 2:11, Hath a nation changed their gods, which are not gods? but my people have changed their glory for that which doth not profit.
13th verse goes on to say,”For my people have committed two evils; they have forsaken me the fountain of living waters, and have hewed them out cisterns, broken cisterns, that can hold no water”.

And I was born in the 70’s.

I want you all to check out this conference that is going down in Chicago.

also check out…

http://www.shelteruyc.com/heavyweights.htm

Look at what they are doing and contrast that with MegaMess and The Youth Explosion the Donnie McCLurkin sponsored.

The fees are not high. THey have no outside sponsors. and if you know like I know, all these solid christian mcs will be a blessing to the young people because they actually will teach them the Word of God. (read their bios)

I know we do not need hip hop to evangelize. But it is used to plant seeds in peoples lives. Most of these people commenting have no intention on listening. My prayer is that you have an open mind to at least listen to it without judging. If you don’t like it, then you don’t like it. Don’t say it’s wrong when God uses His people to lift up His name through this music.

If not, where is the line drawn on “secular” things that one does unto the Lord?

Would we all agree that Hip-hop is not music?
Would we all agree that HIp-hop is a culture?

Show scripture that God is more interested in saving cultures then man? Hip-hop is the golden calf that has been lifted up to false gods so we can’t take that gold melt it down and make a holy version of it! Now in Deut 7 God told his kids don’t imatate those cultures…why? they were godless!!!! so now y didn’t the children say lets convert them and turn there culture holy? or what if someone in one of those cultures decided to follow God can he then turn and say his culture is holy? Now if John the Bapitist said he must decrease so Christ can increase…..hip-hop doesnt allow that it’s all about look at me i’m this i’m that i’m the baddest mother_____ on this planet and this and that, this culture is so shallow that u r defined by what u wear! nobody is born into hiphop we choose it!

Yes……….but my experience is that music is very seldom a drawing implement for sinners.

It is much more common that music can be used to edify those who have already been drawn into Christ.

Playing HHH as your primary tool to evangelize is not going to bring in a huge harvest of secular Hip Hop listeners any more than Stryper or Petra brought in a huge harvest of rockers.

The entire paradigm we are discussing (music as an evangelism tool) is faulty. I worked in the youth ministry for years………hundreds of kids came across my path……..yet I personally never met one who was drawn to the cross with music of any sort as the primary implement God used.

What WAS common was the adoption of a Christianized form of music that mirrored their pre-conversion musical tastes (whether rock, rap, or whatever floated their boat previously).

One thing that I always found interesting though……..those that grew and matured seemed to universally gravitate AWAY from the music they formerly preferred (even in its Christianized form).

I realize that my experiences are purely anectdotal……..but they were invariably true.I’ve never seen music (of any kind) used as an effective form of evangelism, only as an effective form of edification to those already in Christ.

The simple,spoken exposition of the Word remains unchallenged as an evangelistic tool.

We can’t get pass Gods way whether we label it an exceptable or valid expression of worship, a way to draw other cultures or whatever. Gods standards for HIS people are not bound by time or cultures, He never changes and the same power he displayed in creation is the same power he moves by to change the stony dead heart to a heart of flesh and love Him who we are born hating and could not nor would not choose him. And he sent the man of God to preach the word, he didn’t send the heavenly choral to proclaim the good news.

Again, it is PRESUMPTUOUS.

Also, did I read that one of the artist wrote that he was doing what God called him to do.

What people don’t realize is that the genre of rap music effectively communicates a lot more information (not necessarily more powerful information) than most other genres. Why would God use rap? To communicate to this generations’ short attention span by using those He has filled with His spirit and gifted for this purpose. Don’t believe me, visit Epiphany Fellowship’s Bible study. Listen to the Killing Sin album. Actually judge the tree by it’s fruits.

IF you still don’t agree… please list all the things that God can’t use to glorify his name. Then show me how hip hop in and of itself (apart from those who are actually committing the sins) is a sin.

Clothes can not sin on their own. A man wearing a doo rag is not sinning simply because he wears a doo rag.

Culture is not sinful, people are. Music cannot evangelize but Romans 10:17 says faith comes by hearing… hearing the Word of God. So if the brothers/sisters speak the Word in their songs…..

Holla at me, we can do this one on one till we’re both edified.

Be Blessed (and please help me to grow in understanding, as well)

In all seriousness, while the issue here is music, the basic biblical principle of Godliness with contentment applies to every area of our lives. If we miss the point there we will try and incorporate almost everything that appeals to our flesh and call it evangelism or reaching the lost or one of the better catch phrases, “turning my heart toward worshipping God”. It is PRESUMPTION, and will worship.

To answer your question, which is beside the point, yes I do listen to music. Grew up in the COGIC church, I sing, come from a singing background all my life, then I learned the truth of Gods grace and instantly threw out all Fred Hammond, Winans, Commissioned, Yolanda Adams, Donnie Mc Clurkin etc. I wanted nothing to do with anyone who represented this show off, super talented, can curve up and down the scale, display my talent and evoke some sort of emotional response from the crowd and go buy my record artist. I don’t know the latest guys referred to and I don’t need to know what they are saying on there CD, it’s the whole flippant, irreverent attitude in our music that would even make us call it GOSPEL hip-hop, jazz or rap of all things. As though God needs our ingenuity to reach HIS PEOPLE. Yes it’s about the words, but it’s more importantly about HOW God said to PREACH the word, not think of some slick way to reach a certain age group. HIS people are His people, whether they are 3 or 93. GOD said to PREACH the word to them. And he told you to LIVE in front of them and study so when the opportunity comes to talk to them, you don’t have to play the latest gospel rap song with all the theologically sound lyrics, you can preach the gospel to them(in your role as a prophet, priest and king) and invite them to your local biblically sound church.

Hope that helps, and I will get you the names of some of the cd’s I listen to now.

Peace

Some holyhiphop artists use hip hop to teach, cause as you see from this site, there are alot of people stuck up under “pimps” so the are not learning much.

So my ? is to those who say hip hop is worldly, what is not worldly? Just because footstompinhandclappin music is not popular does not make it not worldly. If I go down to New Orleans or somewhere in the south I can still hear that music, is that the lyrics are secular. There are still quartets around that sing lyrics that are secular…..so what’s the difference?

Yes, and Yes.

Ya’ll remember when Peter wouldn’t eat what God said was clean? Let’s not go around calling something that’s proclaiming the good news of Jesus Christ “dirty”. Holy Hip Hop is lifting up the name of Jesus and men are being drawn.

If you have a problem with the “holy” hip hop, “gospel” jazz, and the like, can you maybe provide us with some music/artist you deem to be more appropriate (Godly or holy)?

Thanks