what’s wrong with bynum’s boots. power is it the boots?

Hey Melvin, you should have seen the part 2 of this with Yolanda Adams, I believe that was worse.

if u notice at the 2min 20sec mark they scan the crowd….is it me or am i seeing things are those statues in the back? maybe i’m seeing things let me look again

In a Feb. ‘05 post entitled “Who Are Our Partners?”, Mr. Melvin wrote:

“But I guess the bottom line is this: Is the “Sisters In The Spirit” event supposed to be entertainment or “ministry?”

Unfortunately, this clip answers that question with a resounding “ENTERTAINMENT!”

A Couple of questions that are not meant to be funny:

1) Was that Sheila E playing the drums?

2) I thought that I saw Clifton Davis name scroll across the bottom of the screen, as well as A. C. Green. But regarding Reverend Clifton Davis, is he not a Seventh Day Adventist minister? Doesn’t this denomination preach against this type of worshiping: the shouting, dancing and loud music. It is interesting that he would be associated with the likes of TBN people.

3) My last question is to the Christian men (but women can answer): some of the women that were on the stage, as well as in the audience, if you were to see them on the streets, would you see them as godly women or would you see them as women of the world? As a woman myself, I was even taken aback with the way the woman in the red boots was dressed; my goodness.

I can spot a crooked preacher/ service anywhere, but I dont believe that what I saw on this video was wrong. I didnt see this broadcast on TBN, and so I dont know what was said or what happened BEFORE they started shouting. I do know however that David danced before the Lord with all his might because God is just that good. I think that sometimes we take this pulpit-pimpery just a bit too far. Is it now being said that it is not ok to praise God? For the bible says that I will bless the Lord at ALL times and his PRAISE shall CONTINUALLY be in my mouth. Sometimes you can just be thinking to yourself about how good God has been to you and think about all the mess you were in that he brought you out of…sometimes you shout just because GOD is GOD!!

This is simply foolishness masked as “praise”. And it’s not even a good mask! They weren’t praising God, they were putting on a show and yelling “I” got power. Praise is about exalting HIM, not I. Also when David danced before the Lord, it wasn’t before television cameras, in full makeup, and stiletto boots. It was ONLY for GOD, not for ratings, not to raise money, and certainly not to exalt himself and proclaim his own greatness. Get ready says he/she can spot a crooked preacher or service anywhere. Here’s a tip for honing that skill: When the US treasury department trains officers to spot counterfeit money, they spend weeks, months even studying the real thing, not the fakes. If you want to be able to spot phoney ministries, stop looking at the mess on TBN, study the real thing (I know it’s hard to come by in the natural) but the ministry of Jesus, is an excellent place to start. Then you won’t be fooled by the shenanigans of the OBVIOUSLY phoney ones depicted in the video.

The fact of the matter is that we have been given an outline as to how we ought to praise him..
1Praise ye the LORD. Praise God in his sanctuary: praise him in the firmament of his power.

2Praise him for his mighty acts: praise him according to his excellent greatness.

3Praise him with the sound of the trumpet: praise him with the psaltery and harp.

4Praise him with the timbrel and dance: praise him with stringed instruments and organs.

5Praise him upon the loud cymbals: praise him upon the high sounding cymbals.

6Let every thing that hath breath praise the LORD. Praise ye the LORD. Psalm 150

Please don’t get it twisted and think that I believe that everything that is going on on TBN is the truth…far from it. TJM says that what they did was not praise, (they shucked and jived) but if you go to most Baptist churches on Sunday, whether it be on television or not, that is how we praise and worship our God. We dont offer God a dignified praise, and we are not too cute to praise him, but we praise him with the loud clash of the symbols and the stringed instruments, and most of all with our own testimony..If you only knew what God has done in my life then I guess you would understand my praise, but since you dont know what I’ve been through and since you dont know how many nights I had to cry myself to sleep, then you won’t understand the way I praise him. I will bless the Lord with ALL my soul and ALL that is within me.

ANYWAY…I do not attend a WOF church, I dont believe in all the prosperity preaching that goes on and I dont understand why some people flock to that type of ministry instead of allowing themselves to get a real word, but all I can say about this video clip is yes, its on TV and yes they had stillettos on and yes they had make up on, but you NEVER know when GOD will show up. Maybe he did, maybe he didnt and maybe it was just a show, but dont ever underestimate when God will show up and who he will use to get his praise (Sheila E)…Please do not conform God into a Sunday morning God, for he will show up whenever he pleases. He showed up for Paul and Silas around midnight (when they sang praises unto God), he was up when Nicodemus came to him and asked him what he had to do to be saved….God has a history of showing up when you least expect it and so all I’m saying is that we ought not count out the possibility that God showed up in that place…WHO KNOWS but God?

I have a problem with the first few words that came out of the lady who had the microphone first. First off. she says “it has to start with the women”, Uh, excuse me but when did ANYTHING start with “the women?” That is the main problem with the American church, especially the “black” church(if there is such a thing) in the the women are out front. If you know anything about God’s order, you know he has placed the man out front. For example: 5000 MEN besides the women and children. I won;t elaborate too much on that but, I believe nothing was wrong with them “praising” God but basically me watching this video I had to wonder, What were they talking about? Too much self involved and it looked as if THEY are initiating a move instead of Jesus. Just curious, but did it make an impact on anybody?

Thank you. So did I. But I thought it was just because I am a male chauvinist pig.

I came from a pentecostal/charismatic background, and used to LOVE “getting my shout on.” As a matter of fact, I loved shouting and dancing so much, that I used to judge how good the service was based on whether or not people “the spirit moved” and the church “shouted,” because it felt so darn good. I wouldn’t necessarily say that shouting and dancing is wrong, but I’ve since learned that all that shouting dancing is mostly a display of emotions and the flesh more so than “God showing up.” Yeah, it feels good when that organ is playing and those drums are beating(I used to play drums, too)and people are shouting “hallelujah,” but I believe that we erroneously label all that as the “spirit moving.”

Trust me, if “God showed up” as you say, you would be struck and laying on your face because HIS presence and HIS holiness demand it. You wouldn’t start bucking and shouting and carrying on like a fool. But therein lies the problem. People are so anxious for an “experience” that they manufacture one in the absence of the genuine thing. Whatever God did for you, I sure it means the world to you, but praise isn’t about you, it’s about HIM, it’s not dependent on circumstances, so if your praise is because of what HE’s done and not who HE is, then it’s not praise. It’s gratitude and that’s different than praise.

I’m not sure what purpose your reply to me was Annette, mainly because you’re preaching to the choir. Perhaps you were speaking in general? Because you can’t see anywhere in my previous comment that I promoted shouting and dancing. By the way…when I said “God showed up” in my original post, you’ll notice that I put it in quotes, meaning I didn’t promote it, I was only quoting what a previous post on the subject.

I totally agree with you when you say that I ought to praise him just because of WHO he is and not just because of What he has done. But I think it goes both ways. Why wouldnt I praise God because he HAS done some things in my life. It says very clearly in the second verse of the 150th Psalm to “praise him according to his excellent greatness”..In other words, you need to praise him when he blesses you. You need to praise him because he stepped in and blessed you when you did not deserve it. I for one do not just praise him because of What he has done, but I praise him because of who he is.

And yes, this is more than one way to praise God, It is not always dancing and shouting. It depends on who you are and how you praise. If I played the drums, then I would praise him by playing the drums in church, thereby thanking him for giving me the ability to do so. If I could sing, I would offer up a song to him. If he has given me the ability to preach, then I will preach for him, If he has given me the ability to play the piano, then I will write songs for him. If he has given me the ability to teach, then I will teach Jesus…. As long as you are doing what you are doing to magnify God, then it can be considered as praise. It has nothing to do with being anxious for an “experience” (speaking for myself) when it comes to praising God. I am going to praise him because the bible says if I dont do it, then the rocks will cry out. What you saw in that video (whether it be fake or not) was a form of praising God. It may not be your way, but everyone is different. How dare I tell you that because you do not praise they way they do, then your praise is not praise? And how dare you tell me that because I dont praise the way you praise, then my praise is not praise. The fact of the matter is that as long as God gets the glory, it is praise. If this video clip is real or not, is really not my concern, thats between them and God. My concern is people coming on this website and having the audacity to say that dancing and shouting is not praise. God never specifies in the Bible a right way to praise and a wrong way…therefore, that tells me that as long as its done for him, as long as I’m dancing for HIm, and as long as I’m shouting for HIM, then I’ve got a legitimate praise!

But you are disrespecting an entire denomonation by stating that dancing and shouting is not praise. I stated before, most Baptist and most COGIC churches praise God in that manner. Are you saying that when we dance and when we shout it is foolish?

Been gone for a while…..

this video reminds me of some kind of twisted charismatic version of “the View.” Tweet, I must agree with what Al observed, but I want you to realize we need to put it in context. I used to watch TBn every day, around ten years ago. I noticed recently when I “check up” on what is on, that women preachers are the new fad in the ultra-charismatic circles. It seems there are hardly men preaching on their airwaves at all. This, along with 99% of what is said in the clip, is illegitimate. Remember that if it “all starts with the women”, they mean their great “end-time” revival that they have been looking for since the inception of tbn. Despite numerous scripture warnings of apostasy and a “great falling away”, they seem to think there is a biblical promise of such great signs and wonders in a revival that will dwarf anything we have ever seen. Jesus warned us many times in Matheww 24, to see to it that we are not decieved. He also said, “an evil and adulterous generation seeks after a sign.” nowhere in the mentioning of this great “end time revival” is there any talk of salvation of the lost, which is our “Great Comission”. (Matt 28:19) Thus it is also illegitimate. So it DEFINATELY won’t “start with women.”

P.S. Someone help me, I can’t remember the exact scripture, but it also says even though the man is “from the woman” the woman is “from the man” possibly because of Adam’s rib, or because we do supply the X or Y chromosomes. so it all starts with men!!! ha ha

I knew I wasn’t the only one who saw a fake-me-out ‘View’ in motion. I couldn’t watch past 2:39. Now I have to go repent for wasting time……

I still fail to see how screaming “I (operative word “I”) got power” is praising someone GOD. I don’t think anyone here thinks that praising God is wrong or that singing, shouting, dancing, etc is excluded from praise. However, just WHO is being praised? As for bringing “scripture and grammar” to the exchange, there is usually more scripture exchanged on this site than I’ve heard in most sermons.

When the bible states “Judge not lest ye be judged,” it’s saying that we shouldn’t decide what something is based on our personal standards. We have no authority BASED ON OUR OWN STANDARDS to decide righteousness from sin.

Having said that, we are also commanded to mark those who cause divisions and offences among us contrary to the doctrine given by Jesus (Rom. 16:17-18). How can we do this without holding men accountable for their actions in light of scripture?

“It has to start with the women?” When did Jesus say that revival had to start with the women?! There are true things that Porphetess Bynum preaches, but we are not ignorant that she isn’t preaching nor reflecting the true and holy gospel. Jesus never promoted those who were active in sinful lifestyles to minister with Him (accept Judas!). Bynum vindicates secular music artist that still promote songs promoting the lust of the flesh, eyes, and pride of life (1 John 2:15).

So, while the power of the Holy Ghost is still present upon those whom He desires to work through since the ascension of Jesus:

Matt. 7:22, 23 - Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

That’s in the same chapter as ”judge not, lest ye be judged.”

Stop partially quoting scriptures to justify the actions of men’s flesh.

My two cents:

I do believe that praising God can be unconventional. I clap my hands, dance, shout unto God, fall prostrate - all of that. I do it at church, at home, in my car.

I attended a Women’s conference at Tony Evan’s church a week ago. This is a big deal for me because I tend to be a skeptic of these types of events. But Beth Moore was the speaker, and I like her so I went with my church group.

She said something that I think sums it all up. We are made up of three components: physical, soul (our personality and seat of emotions), and spirit (our capacity to know GOD). She spoke about soulish praise - when you are just self-indulgent in your emotions. Like at a football game, or when you eat something you really like. OR when you think you are praising God and you really aren’t. You might scream, do a few high kicks, click your heels three times, etc - and God does not get the glory. It is purely based off of what you your feel. You might even cry silently, or sway back and forth - but it is a “feel good” moment, not praise unto God.

Now Spirit praise may be somewhat irrational to the world’s eye but it is solely because you are in awe of God’s glory. You are in no way the focus. Like Isaiah who came undone because there was a revival that came forth from the reading of the word. Spirit led worship is when you are so absolutely in awe of God that you can’t stand it. You fall on your face. You praise him in the way that He has given you. I personally don’t believe that God would have us barking like dogs, running into walls, and hurting other people as they try to contain you because you are “getting yo’ shout on”. But if you even look at the Jews, they knew how to rock a party like nobody. To this day in orthodox synagogues, as well in Messianic churches they dance and all of that. Jonathan Settel is one of my favorite Messianic singers. Check out his music, and see if it doesn’t get you moving.

But only God knows the heart of man and He is the final judge of authentic praise.

Now, as for those women on the clip. That was crazy. That it starts with the women is a lie from the pit of hell. That is why so many black homes and homes in general are broken because we have bought into the lie that we are running something and thus can’t submit to our own husbands.

The Bible says that woman was made for man, not man for women. And while Deborah was indeed a judge over Israel - she was still responsible for submitting to her husband in her house. And all that “power” they were talking about, if it were really spirit led, wouldn’t they have given credit to God for the power? I am not the judge of anyone’s praise, but it was wiggy. The statement, “I love women with power!” was especially unnerving.

God Bless!
1 Peter 3

TBN promotes doctrines of demons and other unbiblical teachers. We as the body of Christ must help others to know Jesus Christ as their Saviour. Bynum and White are symptons to a much bigger problem. Satan uses male and female evangelist to tarnish God’s word. The Lord stated that it will not work. Every knee will bow and every tongue must confess. I know some so called “christians” will not support this site but thank you
Mr. Melvin for the truth.Cry Loud and Spare not!

“Turn to your neighbor and say POWER!!”

The more I watch TBN and DAYSTAR, the more I see that they have let their spiritual guard down for profit. They give a pulpit to the snake oil salesmen in sheep’s clothing and I hate it. But I thank God for His Word, a bible believing/teaching church, and the fellowship of the saints….cuz without it, I’d probably be jumping and shouting with ‘em…..

Jesus says His sheep know His voice and the voice of a stranger they will not follow. On the issue of “submission”, the wife must choose to follow Christ whether her husband chooses to or not. Examples of this are Abigail and Nabal (old testament) and Ananias and Saphira (wrong submission - new testament). In apostasy there are false teachers male and female throughout history, just as in revival God uses male and female.

Do you have a scriptual reference or precedent to show us that revival starts with women?

No, God is not telling you to break his commandments. But many women use that as a scapegoat not to submit. The Bible gives a specific word for women to submit whether their husband is saved or not. Read all of 1 Peter 3, then get back to me. You submission in quotes really says it all.

I have read 1st and 2nd Peter many time and understand it well, My question was you last sentence where you said “just as in revival God uses male and female.” maybe I misunderstood you on that post. I have no problem with female evangelists, teachers, etc but I could not be under a woman Pastor or leadership in the church. I will not split hairs with those that will disagree because I will just point them to the word and they can decide. To me the church with female Pastors resemble too much like the corporate work place where they have to appoint women in key leadership positions. I am currently under a female supervisor and have been at other jobs and I do as the word says and obey those in charge and work as unto the Lord. But in Church? I have a problem. But, that’s just me.

Jesus says the greatest commandment is to love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind…. and the second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. I placed the word submission in quotation marks because it is generally taken out of its true context of ” submit one to another in the fear of God”. This willful mishandling of God’s Word is called oppression, which Jesus rebukes.

“As for My people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O My people, your leaders cause you to err, and they confuse (destroy and swallow up) the course of your paths” Isaiah 3:12.

There is still something that needs to be established and that is “what does God say about how he should be worshipped?” Everything we call worship must conform to this or it is man centered WILL WORSHIP and is an abomination to God. In the old testement, Leviticus, God was very specific and detailed as to his requirements for how the church in the wilderness was to worship him. The sons of Aaron, as pious and sincere as they may have seemed, God rejected what they did(which he had not commanded of them) and killed them on the spot.( and Aaron held his peace too). The pictures, types and shadows have been done away with, because the promised messiah has come and fullfilled what this picture taught us, and his spirit moved the apostles to tell us specifically in the new testament how his church is to worship him. The principles of the old testament still apply, scripture does not contridict itself, scripture is ONE truth. God determines how we are to approach him, not what feels good to us, but what glorifies Him, Jehovah God. The lie always appears to be so much better, more glitter and glam, more pious than the simple way which God instructs us. But the lie always deceive, and our flesh which warreth against the spirit is always so receptive to what feels good to the flesh, shouting, dancing screaming, as if this is the spirit and truth worship God requires. If you are a born again of the spirit then this is the new man God calls to approach him in the truth of his word which shows outwardly in how we live as pilgrims and strangers in this world. But this is too simple and plain and dull, our flesh wants to be entertained and feel as if WE have contributed something to what God has already completly given us. We need to repent, turn from our wicked ways and then we can hear what thus saith the LORD. Women are to keep SILENT in the churches. Our platform is in the home teaching our children(the next generation of the church) and being a Godly example to them day in and day out. That is a HUGE responsibility. Let’s not minimize that.

Peace

Well, with the state of black marriages in America particularly in the church, they need to be preaching on how to get power on how to submit to the leadership of their husbands before they even think about trying to walk on water, or raise the dead. On the other hand what they do with the time they spend on these so called “christian televison” shows is unimportant to me, I just couldn’t help but feel as though I was at a “Black Womens Empowerment Seminar”. Was it emotionalism or Spirit filled I couldn’t tell could anyone else? As you well know an emotionally charged room is very energetic and contagious. So are ball games and sporting events. Oh Well.

Well one thing is for sure, the room was filled with energy (power) of course you know that a highly filled room of emotional energy is powerful and contagious. I don’t know if the Spirit was there or not I do know that that looked like a Black Women Empowerment Siminar. With the continual rise of divorces in the church especially that of Blacks being the highest, it seems to me somebody up there on stage need to be talking about how to use that power to go home and submit to the leadership of their husbands. A woman (out of from under authority) whether saved or not is dangerous because of her ability to influence.

I am a little blown away after seeing that video, but it’s nothing I haven’t seen before. I cannot judge anyone on that video as I cannot judge anyone in this discussion. I would like to say this though, when we began to exhalt ourselves and to think of our financial gain and popularity over the real reason God put us in high positions, that is when the people we are supposedly ministering to begin to turn a deaf ear to whatever message we are conveying. My question is, what is the message in the video? “I” have power over the enemy, but God is the one who gives us the determination to have power over our circumstances. I believe that these women had good intentions, but like most female ministers and leaders, they tend to come across as “supreme.” There is a certain level of intimidation and the need to prove that God can use a woman just as well as he can use a man. Ok, yes He can, but there is no need to go beyond that. When we become defensive about who we are, we mess up and instead of drawing someone to Christ, we end up pushing them away.

(MN: Small clarification - no one is asking you to judge the person [and by this I assume you mean their private lives and the such]. I am asking you to judge (determine how well it lines up with Scripture) their behavior, their statements, and other objective and clearly visible things. You can judge them and you can judge me on these issues whether you have ever met me in your life. Do I beat my wife? You have no way of knowing. Do I hold to orthodox doctrine in these writings? It’s a plain as the writings in the posts. Don’t get confused with judging = condemning vs judging = discerning and evaluating for accuracy.

You are correct - God can use anybody…and anything to speak to us. But would you really attend a church with a donkey as a pastor? Hey, God spoke through a donkey once. Maybe He’s doing it again. Who am I to judge? )

I stumbled across this website while seeking information on a particular pastor and I was extremely irritated and found it disheartening. This is my first time on this site and will be my last so I will not see your reply to my comment but I must leave a comment.

I will not even leave my email because I don’t want to receive any information from you. First, let me state that there is nothing but negativity coming from these pages. Why do you spend your time nitpicking at everything these ministers are doing or aren’t doing? Instead, why aren’t you doing your part in Kingdom Building instead of tearing down others? Of course, many gospel events are sponsored by secular industries because that is who owns the major corporations.
(MN: I don’t spend time nit picking. Preaching that Jesus suffered in hell and is the first born again man is not a nit. It eats at the foundational doctrinal pillars of Christianity. Being willing to associate with men who preach these heresies is not a nit. It shows a major unwillingness to be obedient to Jesus Christ. )

The day will soon come when ministries and believers own major corporations and can sponsor gospel events. Until then keep your mouth shut. You utilize the services of these companies as well, unless you are traveling on Gospelway Airlines (fictitious) when you travel. Don’t be so quick to mock or make light of what these great men and women are trying to do.

(MN: Using Delta Airlines to get from point A to point B is not the same as taking money from the airline to pay for a supposedly religious program. Here is the difference: I give the airline money, they move me from Atlanta to Seattle. There is an exchange of value. When an airline gives me money to pay for a program, there is no exchange of value other than advertising for the airline. Having the airline sponsor the program is simply a statement that the program probably just should not be. Especially if you not only get the airline to sponsor but you also charge the people money to attend. )

Just because your vision for ministry is smaller than that of T.D Jakes, Bynum, Noel Jones, J. Bryant and others should not cause you to be disrespectful of these leaders and their ministries. You state that you attend church but seemingly the church is not in you because it is against God to tear down other people, especially those in ministry. What you need to do is pray for them and ask God to use their ministries to bring deliverance, healing and yes, prosperity; which is what God wants for us. Freedom of speech is our right in this country and I am all for it but as believers we need to abide by God’s law and not bring each other down.

(MN: It’s not a matter of my “vision” being smaller than these clowns’. The difficulty is they are heretics who preach against the gospel. )

As my mother says, “quit finding the negative in everything”. What about the good these people are doing? As the bible says “examine yourself”, what are you doing for the kingdom, who are you encouraging, whose life are you positively changing? So leave the bad mouthing to sinners and non believers. Use your website for good and highlight how the gospel is going forth worldwide. Also, celebrate the fact that the day is coming that there will be Christian owned corporations, airlines, etc. What will you have to say then? I imagine something else negative.

(MN: I bite. Other than bozos like Fast Eddie and other pimps, where is this recorded in the Bible? The only thing we seem to have to go on is Jesus’ statement that we will be persecuted. Was Jesus wrong?

None of this was written for Shanese because she won’t be coming back to the site. The comments are written to address the issues for people like Shanese when they do visit the site. It also serves to help the casual reader to articulate their arguments when they go against the Pimp Defenders (PDs) )