Comments on: JLC and the Law

By: Rodger J.

Rodger J. — Mon, 31 Jul 2006 08:01:47 +0000

If you’re giving any of your tithe to any organized religion you’re not giving it to God. You’re giving it to false God’s. And I mean all religions. When God says, “Come out of her lest you be a partaker in her plagues (sp)” He is saying get your butt out of religion. They’re all bad. God seeks a personnal relationship with His children. Not a mob mentallity of religion. If you have excess above your needs, help His sheep. It’s that plain and simple

By: Sincere

Sincere — Sat, 22 Jul 2006 19:12:40 +0000

JLC,

You might want to clean up this language, it’s kind of contradictory. I know, I know, I’m being picky, I can’t help it.

JLC first wrote:
Because of Christ’s death, we are no longer saved by keeping the laws but by Grace (Romans 6:14-15 & Galatians 3).

Then:
Therefore, Christ fulfilled what the Laws could not do and that is, save us from sin.

The last statement is true. The first one was half true, because you obviously know that no one has ever been saved by keeping the law. Sorry for being so picky.

By: truthofgod

truthofgod — Fri, 21 Jul 2006 08:53:33 +0000

you know what, my apologies Melvin. I’ve reviewed your essay, and i can see that you’ve covered that.

Thanks

By: truthofgod

truthofgod — Fri, 21 Jul 2006 08:49:12 +0000

I would like for someone to properly explain entire book of Malichi. I don’t have the time right now, but It has nothing to do with what many of these churches teach. They only show us Chapter 3, but if you read the entire book, you would see exactly who it was speaking to, this will change the whole out look and interpretation of what it says. But of course they don’t want you to know that.

By: truthofgod

truthofgod — Fri, 21 Jul 2006 08:37:22 +0000

yes, that is exactly what i wanted to get at in my last post, but i didn’t have my word handy. thanks for providing the necessary scriptures.

By: Pastor "Z"

Pastor "Z" — Thu, 20 Jul 2006 18:58:49 +0000

“I do it as a form of worship to GOD” is the TRUE meaning of NT giving. Whether its 10%, 30%, 50% or 100%. Its not the amount, but the intentions of the heart.

By: NCW

NCW — Thu, 20 Jul 2006 18:47:56 +0000

You can go back and read my earlier post in this thread on why I tithe. I do it as a form of worship to God. The money I have doesn’t belong to me, it’s His, and He owns everything. I do it for the support of His ministry, for the welfare of my pastor and his family and to show my love for God’s church. Church is an earthly institution, bills have to be paid so I give under grace. After I tithe in my local church, during seasons of abundance, I give offerings to ministries that I believe are sending forth the Word of God.

Now why do you tithe?

By: Pastor "Z"

Pastor "Z" — Thu, 20 Jul 2006 18:20:22 +0000

Tou-che!

By: Ralph Hodge

Ralph Hodge — Thu, 20 Jul 2006 18:07:40 +0000

Pastor Z,
You are quite correct in your assesment of new covenant giving. We are no longer under any obligation to tithe, and besides tithes were never in the form of currency, but always in the form of livestock and agricultural products. That is what the pimps will never tell you.
Read
Deuteronomy 14:22-29

By: Pastor "Z"

Pastor "Z" — Thu, 20 Jul 2006 17:51:37 +0000

I actually had a chance to view it earlier today. Very well put together, I might add. I have always been puzzled at the concept of today’s tithing concepts. If you look at Jesus, the Apostles, Elders…you never see for example the Apostle Paul or Peter or John ever go to any of the temples and ask for the tithes. We consider these men often times as Pastors and Bishops, but Paul as well as Peter and Timothy as well as others talk about the hardships they experienced in their lives and you would think that if anybody could use or would be deserving of using the tithes, it would be these men. A subject such as this would be plainly evident throughout the NT for us to continue to practice. As I stated before, I support giving and I think allot of people tithe out of routine and not scriptural understanding.

By: Pastor "Z"

Pastor "Z" — Thu, 20 Jul 2006 17:38:45 +0000

It was a duty. You are very correct. But why? The Levites were operating in a service GOD had set up for them to perform on behalf of the people. As well, this was done because the children of Isreal were told that basically, the Levites will minister or serve on your behalf. Today, though, we do not need for anybody to stand on behalf for us before GOD, Jesus made thee way for all to come before GOD for ourselves. We do not have to give anybody any money for their inheritance, because GOD has and is ALL of our inheritance. I am not againts giving to the church, Ministers or Pastors, but we have to give without feeling guilty or without being mis-informed.

By: Pastor "Z"

Pastor "Z" — Thu, 20 Jul 2006 17:30:38 +0000

First, let me ask you a simple question. Under the NT, please go and search for yourself, why do you, personally, tithe?

By: Melvin Jones

Melvin Jones — Thu, 20 Jul 2006 15:42:11 +0000

By the way, take a look at the paper on tithing. You can get to it by clicking here or by clicking on the “Various Essays” link at the top right-hand part of the page and follow the links.

It’s kind of rough and I’d like to smooth it out and fill in some of the cracks and rough spots. Maybe now that I control my time a little more, I can get to it.

By: NCW

NCW — Thu, 20 Jul 2006 13:52:02 +0000

Pastor “Z” everybody agrees we should tithe, however the question is are we required to give 10%. Yes or No.

By: jlc

jlc — Thu, 20 Jul 2006 13:27:19 +0000

Hello Pastor Z:

I took your advice and researched the number of times the word “tithe” is used in the New Testament, using the King James Version (thank Goodness for Biblegateway.com). The word tithe is only mentioned 7 times in the New Testament and each time that it is mentioned, it is referring to the children of Israel. Just for fun, I searched “tithing” and this resulted to nothing.

Regarding Numbers 18:20-32, I maybe reading your posting wrong, but I do not read or see this as the Israelities giving willingly but instead tithing being a duty and a responsibility.

By: Pastor "Z"

Pastor "Z" — Thu, 20 Jul 2006 12:21:30 +0000

Below, gives you a clear reason for the “Tithes” in regards to its purpose and who it was reserved for. Under the NT check and see how many times the word “Tithes” is used (You will be surprised!). Even in the OT, if you do any research, you will find that GOD would instruct that if anybody who would be willing to give to any form of work, worship, or dedicated things…it was always from those who wanted to give “willingly”. With a free heart to give, NOT by force. As you study the NT you will see that ALL giving is done with purpose of heart. See, GOD does not want what you are not willing to give to Him, His work or His people freely!

Numbers 18:20-32
20 And the LORD spake unto Aaron, Thou shalt have no inheritance in their land, neither shalt thou have any part among them: I am thy part and thine inheritance among the children of Israel. 21 And, behold, I have given the children of Levi all the tenth in Israel for an inheritance, for their service which they serve, even the service of the tabernacle of the congregation. 22 Neither must the children of Israel henceforth come nigh the tabernacle of the congregation, lest they bear sin, and die. F42 23 But the Levites shall do the service of the tabernacle of the congregation, and they shall bear their iniquity: it shall be a statute for ever throughout your generations, that among the children of Israel they have no inheritance. 24 But the tithes of the children of Israel, which they offer as an heave offering unto the LORD, I have given to the Levites to inherit: therefore I have said unto them, Among the children of Israel they shall have no inheritance. 25 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, 26 Thus speak unto the Levites, and say unto them, When ye take of the children of Israel the tithes which I have given you from them for your inheritance, then ye shall offer up an heave offering of it for the LORD, even a tenth part of the tithe. 27 And this your heave offering shall be reckoned unto you, as though it were the corn of the threshingfloor, and as the fulness of the winepress. 28 Thus ye also shall offer an heave offering unto the LORD of all your tithes, which ye receive of the children of Israel; and ye shall give thereof the LORD’S heave offering to Aaron the priest. 29 Out of all your gifts ye shall offer every heave offering of the LORD, of all the best F43 thereof, even the hallowed part thereof out of it. 30 Therefore thou shalt say unto them, When ye have heaved the best F44 thereof from it, then it shall be counted unto the Levites as the increase of the threshingfloor, and as the increase of the winepress. 31 And ye shall eat it in every place, ye and your households: for it is your reward for your service in the tabernacle of the congregation. 32 And ye shall bear no sin by reason of it, when ye have heaved from it the best of it: neither shall ye pollute the holy things of the children of Israel, lest ye die.

By: J Train

J Train — Wed, 19 Jul 2006 19:55:38 +0000

Not true…..

Numbers 18:19 (King James Version)

19 All the heave offerings of the holy things, which the children of Israel offer unto the LORD….

The Lord then gives it to the “government”…

By: Mac

Mac — Wed, 19 Jul 2006 09:51:07 +0000

The part about giving from the heart is biblical giving taught in both Testaments. So, I totally agree with that part. But the tithe was never the means by which God’s people gave to Him. Since Israel’s political system was a theocracy, the tithe was the means by which the government was supported. Therefore, it was a tax. In fact, everyone had to pay a tax to their king (See 1 Sam 8). Just like today, everyone has to pay taxes to support the government.

By: truthofgod

truthofgod — Wed, 19 Jul 2006 07:43:58 +0000

I would say about 95% of the people that tithe do it out of church tradition. They really aren’t familiar with the actual law of tithing. From my memory i thing it is mostly covered in the book of Deuterotomy and Leviticus. These books gives the outline of 1. what is an exceptable tithe, 2. what time of year to do it, 3. what it was designated for, 4. And under certain circumstances, when to EAT it. My point is that todays form of the so-called “tithe” is not even remotely done in the same way as God designed it. Therefore everyone is doing it incorrect. If need be i will provide the scriptures that i’m referring to, it may shed some light on what i’m saying. Unfortunately, i believe through tradition, sincere Christians have been deceived into thinking that Malichi chapter 3 refers to the church of the supposed to be “New Covenant”. Also bare-in-mind that, these are the same people that claim that the law of moses was nailed to the cross, yet they conveniently, run to the same “law of moses” to authorize this tithing thing. Just think about that.

By: jlc

jlc — Wed, 19 Jul 2006 05:26:01 +0000

1 Timothy 6:10 “For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil, for which some have strayed from the faith in their greediness, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.”

Tiannah, how true is this statement? We have become a society that is so hung up on money, fame and wealth that now our Churches have stepped away from the Bible “to keep up with the Jones.” They have people believing that God is and can be their personal Santa Claus if and when they “Tithe.”

By: jlc

jlc — Wed, 19 Jul 2006 04:35:24 +0000

NCW, it is ashamed that Pastors, especially the Baptist Pastors are always pulling out the OLD Testatment when it comes to money; even my beloved Pastor, John Jenkins, Sr. is famous for this.

By: Tiannah

Tiannah — Wed, 19 Jul 2006 01:08:21 +0000

Glad this topic came up. I come from a background where before money was given in church some1 would always pull out mal 3 and remind everyone that you were robbing God and the devourer would mess u up if you didnt tithe.

Even had prayers to rebuke the devourer. So when I came to know christ for myself it was a huge system shock to know that the yoke of tithing put around peoples necks did not need to be there.

I told my friends I was going to start giving the New Testament way and tried to educate them on it. Thier response was ‘ok well see what God does to you’

The case Paul makes towards the Galatians (chapter 5) about circumsion is also true of tithing why burden yourself again? if u insist on tithing then you might has well keep the whole law, and if your going to do that then Christ came died because???????

Giving is an act between you and God, I give now out of the knowlegde that God has blessed me. Not as some requirement to remain blessed.

By: J Train

J Train — Tue, 18 Jul 2006 21:15:31 +0000

Now I’ve seen it all - hooping and self-baptism!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KwtXNQWnkKM&search=preacher

By: J Train

J Train — Tue, 18 Jul 2006 20:06:37 +0000

Luke 11:42 But woe to you Pharisees! For you tithe mint and rue and all manner of herbs, and pass by justice and the love of God. These you ought to have done, without leaving the others undone.

By: Melvin Jones

Melvin Jones — Tue, 18 Jul 2006 19:58:13 +0000

Train, try to address the issue. No one is saying we shouldn’t give. We all agree we should. Are we obligated to give 10% to the local church?

Focus Train, and see if you can answer the question.