I was going to write a fairly detailed discussion of what the Heir Apparent Alpha Pimp preached a couple of years ago. But once I spliced the relevant parts of his “sermon” together, it became apparent that there was no need to make any comments at all. Give it a listen and remember that the material is from his site’s audio archive. He’s actually proud of the this stuff!
Click here to hear the clips, one after another. They are in the order they were spoken.
To hear the entire presentation, click here. It’s about 25 minutes long.
Now it could be that I am not hearing the man right. But over and over he keeps saying that Jesus was not God, he was a man. According to Creflo, He grew into His anointing as a Son, just like we can grow into our anointing.
And the amazing thing is some of you get upset whem I call his wife arm candy but have no problem when he and his wife spew trash like this.
And remember: This fellow is a guest at the Empowerment Temple of Doom with the Right Reverend Jamal-Harrison Bryant. You mind numbed robots out there - ask Jamal why he has anything to do with this heretic.
What am I missing?
Melvin, I know wonders can be done with computerize digital audio so tell me that you somehow transposed Creflo’s voice and edit his words to make us believe he said that.
As I listened to it I was holding back tears.
Sad
I wish I could tell you that that was exactly what I did. But I can’t. Your reaction is exactly why I included the entire travesty to let you hear in context.
You want any odds on whether or not someone out there is going to try to defend him as one of God’s anointed?
This is making me sick to my stomach….
To Melvin & Community:
Today, I listened to this nonsense that “Cashflo” was spouting, and my heart ached when I began to consider the ungodly implications.
There can be no doubt that this man is “ignorant and unlearned.” Amazingly, there are people who seem to embrace and applaud this heresy!
Why are they so willing to accept this kind of falsehood concerning the person of Jesus Christ? It is because they are unwilling to believe that their “prophet/preacher” is deceiving them.
After all, he is “The anointed of the Lord”, and you better not “Touch My Anointed”. While I did not write these comments to examine this dangereous teaching, I do want all of you to go on the website of Hank Hannegraff (www.equip.org)
and look up an Article entitled: “Is Christian Orthodoxy Strong in the Black Church?” It is written by a Black Pastor named Jerry L. Buckner.
Mr. Buckner has written what I believe to be one of the best articles that explains why our people are Biblically Illiterate. He says, for the most part, it is because the Black Preacher is ignorant of great spiritual truths such as Theology and Doctrine.
I won’t highlight his article, but, I want all of you to read it, I know it will bless you while at the same time cause you to think long and hard about the plight of Black people as it relates to Christian orthodoxy.
Blessings to You All,
BT
Read your Bible. Dont take nobodys word. Read it for your self and you will see God loves us and wants the best for his kids. Jesus was born a man. He came from God. But was born through the womb of a woman. Witch makes him human. A man!!!!!! This is not that hard to understand. Still dont believe then get in the word and prove me wrong.
(MN:
John 1:1, 14 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God and the Word was God…and the Word became a human being.
John 20:28 - Then Thomas said “My Lord and My God!”
These are just for starters. I suspect most readers could share another three or four with you. But I also suspect you don’t really want to be shown. So much for getting into the word for yourself. )
Don’t be blinded by someones dislike for a particular preacher or ministry. According to the word Jesus exiated before He came to earth as God. (read John 1:1 0When he came to earth he cama as a man with God’s blood to redeem us from sin. Only a pure man could redeem us. He was fully God and fully man.
NCW - the audio is originally mine (and actually the entire thing is 45 mins, I keep forgetting to re-convert to MP3 and re-upload the whole thing), taken from the actual broadcast back in Dec. of 02.
If you go on Clepto’s site and look in the archives, it’s still linked there for folks to listen to.
No modifications.
I hope it would make you cry and cry deeply - then turn from these folk.
First of all….before I even looked at this site like I just did. Over lunch time, I was already bothered in my spirit not even knowing what it was about. Melvin has a critical spirit which is something you can never satisfy and the fact that he thinks he is above the scripture “touch not my Anointed” is blatant arrogance and FAR from walking in Love. the man has a spirit of bitterness, has been wounded and has no clue about the truth on forgiveness.
I have sat face to face with some of these men of God, looked into their eyes and my life has been powerfully changed because of it. To negate their teachings to me is to negate the healing I have experienced in my body and the healing I am able to minister to others b/c I have sat under such an anointing. The man is on dangerous grounds to speak out against these men and these men DO practice what they preach so they will not retaliate but probably will send Melvin an offering out of Love as they have done many times. I Know the Copelands and countless others refuse to get caught up in the devil’s demonic plan of dissension among the brethren. And yes, the anointing always stirs up attacks and controversy such as this:) Anytime you know your Authority and Rights as a believer the devil gets upset and uses people like Melvin to attack.
As true followers of Christ, we should not even entertain such banter but cover each other with love as it talks of in Corinthians…..Melvin is a far cry from “Love hardly notices if one has been done wrong” and keep not record of wrong”. It is not our job to be critical of one another and mudsling; however, we ARE commanded to love one another. It is the LOVE of God that leads men to repentance not a spirit of criticism and sarcasm. The bible also says to have NOTHING to do with an angry man. Melvin, seems a bit angry. Wrong spirit. Period. You asked
First of all….before I even looked at this site like I just did. Over lunch time, I was already bothered in my spirit not even knowing what it was about. Melvin has a critical spirit which is something you can never satisfy and the fact that he thinks he is above the scripture “touch not my Anointed” is blatant arrogance and FAR from walking in Love. the man has a spirit of bitterness, has been wounded and has no clue about the truth on forgiveness.
As true followers of Christ, we should not even entertain such banter but cover each other with love as it talks of in Corinthians…..Melvin is a far cry from “Love hardly notices if one has been done wrong” and keep not record of wrong”. It is not our job to be critical of one another and mudsling; however, we ARE commanded to love one another. It is the LOVE of God that leads men to repentance not a spirit of criticism and sarcasm. The bible also says to have NOTHING to do with an angry man. Melvin, seems a bit angry. Wrong spirit. Period. You asked
(MN: Again ladies and gentlemen, here is a perfect example of why the pimps can continue to steal money from the sheeple. This writer is one of the reasons Paula White can stand up and talk about the day of atonement without any fear whatsoever of having anyone who watches her show calling her out. They are sheeple, begging the wolves to devour them. )
This is the type of person that would have “loved” the man in 1Cor 5 that slept with his stepmother. he would have said, “we just need to love him and just pray for him” and then said Paul was wrong to advise to cast him out of the church. This is the tyoe of guy who would have told Paul he was wrong for confronting Peter for being doubleminded when he was trying to be Jew one minute and Gentil the next. This guy, is one of the reasons the church is in the state it is in today, not willing to correct anything and just “love” everybody, regardless of what they are doing. Roy, read the epistles and stop worshipping man.
“Melvin has a critical spirit”
It’s called Discernment and biblical and theological knowledge. The haters of the world want to diminish this truth at every turn. Thus we see ‘critical spirit’ and other personal attacks against a messenger.
“you can never satisfy and the fact that he thinks he is above the scripture “touch not my Anointed” is blatant arrogance and FAR from walking in Love.”
Do you even understand context and the real meaning of the touch not mine anointed? Or, were you spoon fed that by your own personal pimp?
And what is Love but to warn others of the dangers they may face?
“I have sat face to face with some of these men of God, looked into their eyes and my life has been powerfully changed because of it.”
Same here…here’s how it went…
It was no different that looking into the eyes of a ravenous beast intent on devouring you.
Their song may as well be out of the Jungle Book…
Trust in me, JUST IN ME
Shut your eyes and trust in me
You can sleep safe and sound
Knowing I am around
Slip into silent slumber
Sail on a silver mist
Slowly and surely your senses
Will cease to resist
Trust in me, JUST IN ME
Shut your eyes and trust in me…
(The Python’s Song)
Might as well have been since the jist of their commentary is “I’m right and you’re wrong. No I can’t point it out in the bible without shrfedding it and taking anything found out of context or adding new verses and meaning to it…but trust me, I’m right.”
“I Know the Copelands and countless others refuse to get caught up in the devil’s demonic plan of dissension among the brethren.”
So their calling on curses against ‘heretic hunters’ is love and not getting caught up in ‘the devil’s demonic plan’?
Some have even threatened violence. Some love…pimp love more like it.
“You see, a pimps love, is very different from the love of a square” -from the movie Idiocracy.
Melvin may be angry…but, if you actually read your bible, so was the Christ when dealing with the marketeers in the Temple and He didn’t seem too gentile when dealing with the pharasies…
But, I’m sure you have some spin for that.
Furthermore, Mel is a super specially annointed man of God. You just laid your mouth him…touching His annointed is wroooong…
Roy, we’ve quoted like parrots for so many years “touch not mine anointed and do my prophet no harm,” which is the reason why so many Christian leaders have run afoul of the Word and run amuck in their leadership, specifically as it relates to tithes and offerings (translated giving in the NT). The Word, says: all scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness. The word “reproof” means: accusation, rebuke, scolding, blame, criticism, etc. In other words, the Word is beneficial for telling someone about their self if they are in error. I have been abundantly blessed by a lot of what some of the Christian leaders named on this site have said, but the way they twist scripture for the fundraising efforts of the church is a stench before God. You better believe what I say, Roy; it is a stench to the nostrils of God. PW with her Atonement Blessing campaign with a $207 or $2007 monetary gift attached to it, in correlation to 2007. Jesus atoned for my sins on Calvary over 2000 years ago, what atonement blessing can PW offer me; she’s not a Levite and neither she nor we are under law. God has spoken to me extensively on this subject and I’ve recorded it in a book titled the NT Grace of Giving. Why have church leaders for so long taught tithing under law and not giving under grace? Because, under grace we are free agents of God and are able to conduct ourselves under the caring persuasion of Jesus Christ, not the law, so they feel it’s better to get ten percent than nothing at all. (Christians don’t short your giving because you’re not bound by the law, but give as you are able and according to how God has blessed you. How God has blessed you just may exceed a ten percent offering.) Under grace we are allowed to give any amount of money we want and are not bound by the ten percent tithe. Our leaders teach that we’re cursed with a curse when we don’t give ten percent, but how can we be under a curse and grace at the same time, or are we just under a curse when we don’t give ten percent. If you think Christian leaders don’t know we’re under the grace of giving and not law when it comes to giving, you are sadly mistaking; they know! The comments on this site, for the most part, is exercising 2 Tim 2.13. Using the Word of God to show the blatant errors of our Christian leaders. What you call bitterness is righteous indignation. Is there such a thing? We’re just angry, but we’re sinning not.
@Roy….
I’ve searched the Scriptures, and have yet to find a passage that teaches believers that, by looking into another’s eyes, we will be healed, saved, blessed, redeemed, etc.
It is much too easy to breakdown this redundant, touchy-feelie type rhetoric; it merely identifies you as the follower of another ‘jesus’. Sadly enough, you don’t care enough about your own soul’s salvation to do, or to believe, much more than what these pimps instruct you; and, therefore, they are your ‘gods’.
Understand something, if they were, in fact, teaching the truth of the Gospel, and anyone came to hinder them, (much like what you’ve poorly attempted to do to Melvin and this site), then you would have a right to the ’suffer for Christ’ claim. Unfortunately, your stance is from the depths of your ignorance, and the only suffering the pimps will endure, is if you refrained from giving them your money, and hear the voice of God for yourself.
Anyone willing to tell you the truth has, and is, sharing the love of God. I have noticed that you’ve been unable to soundly dispute anything put forth here. Like a cut rose, you smell pretty, and look good sitting on a table; but, you have no roots.
Roy, after reading your comments, and again seeing the phrase “Touch not my anointed” I wanted to ask exactly what you mean by that phrase, and I wanted to give some kind of exegesis as to what that phrase means when it appears in the Scripture. Instead, I came across a site that put it better than I could though.
http://www.letusreason.org/Pent47.htm
I hope you get a chance to read it. I’m sure Melvin would get some encouragement from it too, after some of the comments he endures =)
@Andy Thx for good read on “touch not my anointed”. Its long, but it was well worth it. I now have more arrows for my bow.
That site is an excellent resource all the way around. Thanks Andy!!
Roy: you said: It is not our job to be critical of one another. Have you ever read Titus 1:10,11 or how about Jeremiah 23, Just read the whole chapter. Timothy 1:1-11 is a good one to read as well. If touch my annointed is the only scripture that comes to mind to defend their teaching then you should read more of your bible not just the highlight scriptures.
Have we another Borg in our midst?
BrotherLD, arm photon torpedoes and get a phaser lock on that target. Fire on the command of the Benevolent Dictator, Capt Melvin T Kirk.
wow…………..
Just a short comment for Roy: You have tricked yourself into believing the YOU can criticize a man (Melvin), but he can’t criticize a man (Creflo). Here’s what I mean: You say, “It is not our job to be critical of one another and mudsling; however, we ARE commanded to love one another.” Weren’t you just ‘critical’ of Melvin? Didn’t you just prove that indeed it IS ‘our job’ to be critical of one another? You just spent 250 words being critical of ‘another.’ Do you think to ‘love one another’ means to be all mushy and huggy and feel yummy in my tummy? Have you ever had to show love in other ways? When you child runs into the street, do you hug him, tell him it’s ok, etc.? or do you show ultimate love by firm correction? Melvin seems a bit angry? Where? And, I guess you better have nothing to do w/Jesus (remember His anger in the temple? - oh, but wait, it’s ok for Him to be angry - He’s not God!!!).
Larry Blythe, M.A.A., defendthefaith@hotmail.com
This is foolish. Jesus was Imanuel(God WIth Us). Please forgive me, I dont have my Bible to give exact scriptures. In 1st or 2nd Timothy we read that God was manifested in the flesh through Jesus. Jesus was all man and all God at the same time. Phil. Says Jesus, who being in the form of God thought it not robbery to be equal with God………He humbled himself to be come like us. He was born without the sperm of a man. Creflo has lost his mind.
JESUS WAS NOT GOD? - No matter how along ago this heresy was taught nor who taught it, following are God’s and Jesus’ answer to 21st Century Pharisees and their lunatic followers:
1. ISAIAH 7:14 - Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign: Behold, a virgin will be with child and bear a son, and she will call His name Immanuel. Matthew 1:23 quoted Isaiah precisely, and went on to quote the true meaning of the name: “which translated means, ‘GOD with us.’”
2. Unger’s Bible Dictionary on the name Emmanuel - “God with us; i.e., saviour, a name given to Christ by Matthew 1:23 after Isa. 7:14. According to orthodox interpretation the name denotes the same as God-man, and has reference to PERSONAL UNION OF THE HUMAN NATURE AND THE DIVINE IN CHRIST.
3. MATTHEW 12:18 [JESUS is quoting His Father.] - “Behold, My Servant whom I have chosen; my Beloved in whom My soul is well-pleased; I will put MY SPIRIT upon Him, and He shall proclaim justice to the Gentiles.”
JESUS continues the discourse in verse 28: “But if I cast out demons by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.”
In the mouth of two or three witnesses, let every word [of GOD] be established:
3. JOHN 3:34 corroborates MATTHEW 12:28 - “For He whom God has sent speaks the words of God; for He [GOD] gives the Spirit [to JESUS] without measure.”
4. COLOSSIANS 1:19 - For it was the Father’s good pleasure for all the fullness to dwell in Him…”
5. COLOSSIANS 2:9 - For in Him [JESUS] ALL THE FULNESS OF DIETY DWELLS IN BODILY FORM.”
6. 2 CORINTHIANS 3:17 - Now the Lord IS the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty
The Spirit of God and the Spirit of Truth are One and the same. A person CANNOT speak the truth EXCEPT BY THE SPIRIT OF TRUTH! Woe unto you with itching ears and supporters of false doctrine.
Wait since Jesus was concieved by the spirit, that means that he was already anointed. He misses the point that from the time that Jesus was conceived that God ALWAYS dwelt inside of that fleshy temple. I don’t know what bible he is reading from, but after listening to this garbage, I can’t see how he is a minister of truth.
The Hebrew writer says” 1. God, having of old time spoken unto the fathers in the prophets by divers portions and in divers manners,
2. hath at the end of these days spoken unto us in his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, through whom also he made the worlds;
3. who being the effulgence of his glory, and the very image of his substance, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had made purification of sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
4. having become by so much better than the angels, as he hath inherited a more excellent name than they.
Hebrews 1-4
Okay, are you kidding me? Salavation is based on who you say Christ is. I won’t go there but I will try to address the current issue through my anger. How dare someone defend this false doctrine. Maybe the book of John is wrong when it declares “In the beginning was the Word and the Word WAS God. HE was with God in the beginning. Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.” John 1:1-3. And to address the whole flesh thing… John 1:14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace.
Melvin, you have to help me. What is going on?
That’s the Word!! It is all summed up!! There’s no more to be said. JESUS IS THE LORD!!!
Adrien:
I am with you on this one–John 1:1–how in the World then do we or better yet, how does Creflo’s followers explain this verse? Unfortunately, they probably cannot, or if they can, they may change “the Word was God” to “Word was A god”–the same as the Jevohah Witnesses have done.
I noticed something with Creflo, he rarely preaches from the New Testament and if he does, he will use a Scripture that is speaking directly to the Jews. With regards to this sermon, Creflo does the same thing, he uses the Book of Hebrews, which was written to the Jewish people to help them better understand the purpose of Christ and Christianity.
Right now, after hearing this, I am so hurt and really angry because Creflo message has made a liar out of the Word of God and his so called ignorant followers are agreeing with what he is saying. “MY GOODNESS DON’T THESE PEOPLE READ THEIR BIBLES??!!!! In John 8:58, Jesus reveals His true identity in one of the most powerful statement in the Bible: “I AM” (Exodus 3:14). Do we not know that back in the Biblical days, if a person professes or claims to be God not only was this blasephemy but also the punishment was death? If Jesus was not who He said He was, then our Christianity and our faith has been one big disappointment and lie.
Read it again The Bible says this not anyone else In the beginning was the word and the word was with God and the word was God. If the word was with God and the word was God. Would that not make the word God? Now noone said this. The Bible says this ok.
(MN: Mickey - Unless your next posting is of some substance [and actually makes sense], you’re about done. Oh, and congratulations. You may have set a record for shortest time to get banned. )
Can you say BORG??
Unbelievable! What really angers me about this dude (if you ever catch him on tv while you’re flipping channels) is how smug he is when he delivers this garbage to his flock. He really thinks he’s doing some hardcore, hermeneutical, expositional preaching when he gets behind his podium. And he really believes he’s breaking you off some knowledge that should have been obvious to you when he speaks. I can’t stand that. . . .
Creflo’s not a heretic on purpose. He’s just ignorant, plain and simple. He doesn’t realize that he stands in a long line of gnostics and adoptionists who held similar views. The scariest thing is that a guy this deceived is pastor of one of the 5 largest churches in America.
I disagree. While I can’t see into the man’s heart, I don’t believe he is stupid. That level of stupidity would require that he still not be able to tie his shoes. At a minimum it would require that he not even be a Christian, since the Bibles speaks against these bozos over and over again, calling their very salvation into question. This man, like the rest of the pimps, is anything but studpid/ignorant.
Of course, being ignorant doesn’t make the heresies he promotes any less heretical or damaging to the average person.
I suspect he understands a good deal more than any of us are willing to acknowledge.
Let’s assume that Cref’ is actually saved. Can you imagine the tap dance he is going to have to do at the bema seat? I wouldn’t trade places with him for three of his airplanes or five times his yearly income. The price is way too high.
Bottom line: As long as this WoF bozo and his compatriots are given a free pass by the rest of us, they will continue to preach another gospel and get paid to do it. And it is to our shame that they can continue with almost no resistance.
I suppose the next thing he’s going to come up with is that Jesus didn’t get saved until he got baptized by John. Now that i think about it, it doesn’t seem so far-fetched that this clown would say something like that.
Actually, I believe he has covered that. He states that Jesus is the first born again man. This happened when he defeated Satan after suffering in hell for three days. Look here, item D3.
You would think he’s stupid since stupid people deserve stupid names likes Creflo and Taffi (no disrespect). But Dollar is far from stupid. In fact he’s smart. He’s smart enough to butcher up scripture and have 20,000 followers believe in him. You have to be smart to be the President and CEO of a large church like World Changers Church International which is the parent company of Creflo Dollar Ministries (CDM), World Changers Church New York (WCCNY), Creflo Dollar Ministerial Association (CDMA) and Arrow Records. He’s running a venture. He’s a smart savvy business man who has made a fortune using the name of our Lord.
The more I hear hucksters like Dollar the more my faith is confirmed by scripture being fulfilled. Jesus warning in Matthew 24:5 that many will come in my name saying I am Christ, and will deceive many. These hucksters come in His name calling themselves anointed ones (christ’s) and claiming authority to speak things into existence, and many (20,000 plus followers in the mega church) are being deceived. Sad.
Do you not believe in Mark 11: 23-24 or others like Ephesians 3:15-21. Look at verse 20 do you not believe that God cant do exceeding abundantly above all you could ask or think? If not you need to spend time with God to get his plan for your life. His come that we may have life and have it more abundantly!! It’s all up to you. Just like getting born again was up to you.
Nicely put out there. I used to be a follower of “Dr” Dollar (he only hold’s an honorary doctorate by the way -given to him by Oral Roberts). This is heresy in full form. Is it any question we are in the end times? I think books like “Left Behind” put forth the idea of an end of the world scenario pitting Christianity against some ungoldy political regime and “one world religion”. Yet according to the scriptures, it would seem more likely that the realy “anitchrist” would be within the visible church itself. Is it any wonder that true Gospel preaching churches are struggling to survive these days (those who actually preach Jesus Christ and Him crucified as a regular Sunday diet) - and those like Creflo and Osteen are multiplying like crazy…and yet never preach Christ crucified for the sins of the world…and rather preach a law based mixture of half truths and blatant heresy such as this?
I think we can clearly see we are in the last days - and the one world regime will be coming under the title of “christian” - but will be anything BUT Christianity! Moral preaching and how to get successful is not good news except to those who are already perishing (of this world) - rather “fear God who can destroy both body and soul” - cling to the Gospel - for it is this Good New of Jesus’ birth, life, death and resurrection FOR SINNERS, which creates and sustains faith!
I asked about 2 weeks ago what church you attended and got no answer. I guess that would just be a secret since you are overwhelmingly hammering all the others.
I believe I sent you an e-mail with the info. If not, I just sent another to your diabetes.org address.
Melvin goes to +++++++, in +++++, MD
(MN: And this, dear readers, is one of the reasons I have to moderate the comments before they appear. Again, if you wish to know where I attend ask me through e-mail and I will tell you. I do believe that this is how brave anonymous found out. I’ll even tell you how to get there. )
The sad thing is that everyone cast Carlton Pearson out of the fold for preaching his inclusionism doctrine. Now I am in no ways in agreement with Carlton but the stuff Creflo preaches(”little gods and Jesus didn’t come as God” stuff) should make us consider him to be cast out of the fold with Pearson.
Juanita Bynum expose’
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nrg7L5eyMxI&search=preacher%20false
Who is this dude, though?
His name is Tony Smith from the “Church of Our Lord Jesus Christ” sect. WHile I would agree with most of what he is saying, he is operating in the wrong spirit. He and Gino Jennings are from the same teachings and they hold fast to calling out preachers and “calling it like it is” syndrome. They are Jesus Only believers (ala Jake, Noel Jones, and Bishop Weeks) and do not adhere to the Trinity teachings. To make a long story short, they are pretty much legalist with a fanatical twist.
i’m not that familiar with Tony Smith but I am very familiar with Gino. And my question is, if you agree with most of what they are saying, i suppose your problem is with their hard delivery. Actually, i happen to like it. Its time for us to call things out for what they are and stop being fake. I’m not saying that i believe everything they say. I make sure i check the scriptures to make sure that he is correct. Yet, at the sametime what they present is pretty much scriptural, its just that they are hard and firm-and it rubbs people the wrong way.
First of all, there is no such thing as Jesus Only. That is false in of itself. God can’t be seperated from Himself. Jesus is God. Jesus is the Holy Spirit. The Word - I John 5:8, ” For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word ( Jesus is the Word, John 1:1) and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.” In John 10:30 Jesus says, “I and my Father are one or I and Father are one.” The saints need to get back to the Word of God, the BIBLE!
Just so you know, I John 5:7 is the verse to which you’re referring about the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost, and by the way, every reputable bible scholar will tell you that this verse was not in ANY of the original greek manuscripts. It was added by translators after the 15th century. So therefore it’s not often quoted as a verifiable argument for the trinity, since it was not in the inspired original scriptures.
Secondly, although I believe that “Dr.” Dollar is indeed a false profit(sic), I have to admit that listening to his sermon on Jesus not being God did cause me to think. Don’t get me wrong, I DO believe that Jesus is God, for God the Father Himself even called Jesus God according to Hebrews 1:8, and of course, Isaiah prophesied that Jesus’ name would be Immanuel…meaning GOD with us, not to mention, Jesus saying “I AM.” But I did find myself looking at the bible verses that the “Dr.” used to prove his argument. Does he have a point? Was he perhaps talking about the MAN that Jesus was? We know that He was FULLY man henceforth, the need to be anointed, the need to be perfected in suffering, and even the fact that He didn’t even know EVERYTHING(Mark 13:32 Jesus didn’t know when He was going to return, only the Father knew, so apparently, at least at THAT time, Jesus was not omniscient) AND FULLY God, in that He had the power to heal and forgive sins. Here’s another thing that causes me to think. Although Jesus is God, doesn’t the bible make it clear that Jesus is not the Father? Jesus said in John 14:28 that “my Father is GREATER than I.” Even Paul on several occasions in his letters stated “Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ(Eph.1:3, Col.1:3. I Pet 1:3) Also, 1 Cor. 8:6 says There is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him. I guess what I’m trying to glean from the profit is, perhaps Jesus was God…but He wasn’t the FATHER. We see that Jesus HAS a God, but is Jesus ever referred to as the FATHER? Paul wrote in I Tim 2:5, There is ONE God, and ONE mediator OF God and men, the MAN Jesus Christ.
Again, I’m not automatically buying what the gospel peddler said, but his sermon was a thing that made me go, “Hmmmmm.” I welcome anyones insight.
This response is not to fuss at Deejai. I think it tremendous that you would be willing to openly state what you have. But consider this.
What we are getting here is a very important “lesson” in interpretation. Basic hermeneutical principal: What is the context in which the statement is being made?
One of the methods Creflo, Price, and the rest use to their advantage and to the detriment of those who follow them is quoting, explaining, and using scripture out of context. As the saying goes, I can make the Bible say anything I want. I can make it say I should hate my parents (Luke 4:26), that we should be into self-mutilation (Mark 9:43 AND Matthew5:30) and that we have to be completely perfect all the time (Matthew 5:46).
As an example, he uses the word “perfected” to mean lacking in any flaws, or shortcomings. But if you look at the rest of that chapter (let’s start with verse 1) you will see an interesting thing. The writer of Hebrews compares Aaron (a priest of the Law) to Jesus who became a priest after the order of Melchizedek. He notes that the priest had to offer a sacrifice for the people. He also had to offer one for himself.
The writer goes on to say that Jesus, “…in the days of His flesh, offered up both prayers and supplications with loud crying and tears to the One able to save Him from death.” This happened the evening before and the day of His crucifixion.
Creflo takes the next section and, I believe twists that as well. What is the writer talking about here when he speaks of Jesus having been made perfect? And what is the time period we are talking about?
Again, we are dealing with the time period just before the crucifixion, the crucifixion, and I suspect the time after , the resurrection.
Before the crucifixion, even though Jesus was fully God and fully man (start with Col 2:9 and work out from there). The Bible says that the Word dwelt among us and identifies the Word as God and identifies that same Word as the Light that lived among men (John 1:1, 9-10). In other words, God lived among men. The Light, the Word, didn’t become God. He was God from the moment His fleshly body was conceived. He was God before His fleshly body was conceived.
But interestingly, the Bible says another interesting thing about Jesus. Philillians 2:6 , 8 says:
In one of Creflo’s previous interpretive abortions, he takes this section of scripture to mean that we should strive to be gods. Do any of you really believe that? Or is Paul saying here that though He had the form of God, He was willing to empty Himself and became obedient, even to the point of death? Is Paul talking here about becoming like God or is he telling us why we should humble ourselves?
And notice what else this section talks about. By His obedience unto death He was exalted to the position He has now. This is the “perfection” the writer of Hebrews was talking about; perfection as in having taken up all of the attributes and prerogatives of the Godhead again after voluntarily giving them up.
It may seem kind of common, but let me ask you this: Do you really think Jesus came into the world fully potty trained? Or that he could walk and talk right out of the womb?
Just to echo the sentiments, not that shocking considering who it is…..but very sad on acount of those who still countinue to hold this pimp up.
whats really sacres me though is siince we know that the Holy Spirit can not contradict scripture (duh he authored it) By whose authority then is creflo coming out with all this stuff.
By the way those anyone know how old this message is?
There is a reference to a survivor of 9/11 in the commercial after the message. I will assume it is sometime after 2001. Let’s put it at mid to late 2002.
I heard the same garbage preached by Bishop Keith Butler, a Republican senatorial hopeful here in Michigan, in 2004 on TBN. This is part of Word of Faith doctrine. It’s been around for a bit. You probably can trace to Kenneth Copeland and Kenneth Hagin.
You are right. They denounce Jesus as Lord all the time, that is their doctrine.
Get me a massage where they denounce Jesus is Lord and I’ll stand against them with you.
Mickey scribbled……..”Get me a massage where they denounce Jesus is Lord and I’ll stand against them with you.”
Let me get this straight………..you want me to get Creflo to deny Christ while rubbing your back??
Tony Smith is off the meter!!!!!!!!!!!! i love that dude he is mad funny!
Well I could barley understand one word the man said…I think he warrants a translation…Any takers?
Is Tony Smith doctrinally sound though? He seems to be…. thoughts?
Plenty of his clips on Youtube - love the “no strings attached” act - magic!!
While I will not attack whether he is sound doctrine wise, I will again add that he is operating in the wrong Spirit. I have seen people like him before and basically they seek attention to themselves as well as others. Anytime you boast “if you don’t like ME, talk to God, he is my boss”(with emphasis on ME), I have to ask is it about him or is it about God. If you are called of God, you will not be well received (as Jesus stated you wouldn’t) so why focus your attention on whether one has a problem with you because they will. You see, so many people who want to be called to the ministry ( a vast majority is due to not wanting to hold a 9-5), look for ways to “shock” the audience” and they know there is an audience out there that want to hear you bash other by calling what they are saying, truth. Bro Tony Smith, like other C.O.O.L.J.C. ministers have a stong desire to “take matters into their hands” and try and do what they feel is God’s work but fail to see the Spirit of the law. They become legalist and force the letter of the law without love. There is a place for what they are saying but, do you really think their members are growing spiritually or being cast back into the law. Oh Foolish Galations who has bewitched you. I doubt seriously that if someone who has studied the word (as I can see Melvin has in studying his essays) challenged bro Smith, he probably would crumble. I have seen many like him. For example I was reading something on the web about a Muslim challeging Gino Jennings after Jennings (who issued a debate with ANY Muslim publically) embarrassed a fellow muslim in a debate. Well, this particular Muslim (who seem to be well studied in his faith) called Mr Jennings and spoke with him several times and Jennings accepted the debate at first until he conversed further with the Muslim over the phone and determined he was not gonna embarrass this one. Well, Jennings got back with him and said his schedule prevented him from attending even though he said he would openly challenge ANY Muslim at ANY time. Jennings is also of the same sect as Smith and operate in the same spirit.
I agree with you, Al. While much of what Tony Smith has to say is true, he is using a “strong arm” to shove it down his congregants throats, instead of allowing God to do the convicting of hearts. It is very legalistic. On one video he had someone read a letter to the church about immigration and he use the pulpit to push his opinion. This is very dangerous, because he is bringing non-salvation issues to the pulpit - when the pulpit should be about God. Not to say that there aren’t some issues that we shouldn’t be discussing - There are many that are strickly against God’s word. But there is a fine line in using the pulpit as a platform.
The problem is so many people want to be spoon-fed so that they don’t have to be held accountable. They want to come to church and have an experience, but mentally “check-out” and let someone figure it all out for them. This is how the Tony Smiths AND the Creflo Dollars rise to “power”.
Just my 2 cents!
This thing about Gino changing his mind to challenge the Muslim-did you get this info from a Muslim website? Because i’m very familiar with them, and i never heard of any such thing happening. I’m just curious. Furthermore, it seems that you have a problem with people being called out. If Paul did it, and Jesus did it, then how come we can’t do it? The problem is that we have become spoiled as a people , so when there comes a person that openly criticizes the wickedness of famous people, then they are supposed to be operating in the “wrong spirit”. If thats the case, the i guess Melvin is operating in the wrong spirit as well?
I figured someone would go there and you did. I have no problem with calling out a person when he is wrong. I have read some of Melvin’s essays and it is sound doctrine. Now, with Jennings and Smith, while they speak truths (so does Farrakhan) they do not seem to doctrinally sound,and I could be wrong, but I have heard some of their doctrine (especially the Trinity) and they are way off. I have no problem with a lot of what they are saying, and you are right, someone has to say it, but when you attack churches that teach the Trinity, I have a problem with that. In case you are wondering where I read the article, here is the link:
http://www.theblackgod.com/openletternew_page_1.htm
I stumbled across it while I was looking for info on Jennings (and by the way, don’t take this for the truth but some of his members are saying he is starting his own bible because, get this, the word “bible” does not appear in the bible and he will include the Apocrypha.) If Melvin started his own bible, I would have a problem with him too. And in case you are wondering, I am in no way a blind follower of Melvin, as I follow no “man”. I research Melvin’s info as well as others. You can’t take everything as truth as the Word tells us to “study to shew yourseld approved…
You are correct i believe what he is in the process of compiling the lost books of the bible to add them to the existing 66 books. Though i do believe that through Constantine and the Catholic church, some books where omitted, that is a historical fact. But, somehow i do question the contents of these “lost books”, given that they have been discovered so recent. But i could be wrong. Furthermore, likewise i’m not a blind follower of Jennings, instead i follow truth where ever it is presented, and he seems to pretty much stay consistant with the bible. Yet i do disagree with few of his beliefs.
Hey Melvin, great resource! Do you mind if I once in a while link to your stuff? I want to point to your site at thomisttacos.com. thx and keep up the good work.
No problem. In fact I welcome links, even from sites that are opposed to what I am doing. Hey, if an atheist wants to link to the site and rail against what I’m doing, I okay with that. Like the man said - bad publicity is better than no publicity at all. And the more people know the site is out here, the more liely they can escape from the pimps, avoid getting trapped by the pimps, or help others escape from the pimps.
Link away!
What is being promoted by all of our Word of Faith friends is God’s annoiting, through the vehicle of faith, by means of our works. Our faith grows as a by product of our actions, which as far as I understand it should be the converse, our works are a by product of our faith, which is given to us by God alone, through the power of the Holy Spirit, via the means of the preached word, and both sacraments, because of Christ.
As a former Word of Faither, the size of my checkbook is a fairly good indication of God’s favor in my life, or how annoited I may be (it is the foundation for all the WOF doctrine, as evidenced by their theology of the nature of Christ). As we all know the danger of this doctrine; Faith born of miracles, a large bank account, or works, will require that very same thing to perpetuate it. When the till runs dry, or we are stricken with disease, or we struggle with sin (works), our faith will wain.
The Gospel is the power of God unto salvation and what will change these folks, what changed me, was hearing the Gospel, specifically Galatians chapter 3 of Law and Works.
Preach Christ and Christ crucified, you won’t change their minds with logic, but God can change their hearts with His gospel!
Take care, and may God bind and keep it to all our hearts through Christ Jesus.
AMEN! AMEN! AMEN!
“HERESEY”!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
http://gospelgrace.com/falseprophets/creflodollar/creflodollar.htm
I was doing some research, check this out
“Creflo Dollar Says - “God is coming back for a church without spot or blemish so he is not coming back to a church in debt this revival must take place before Jesus can come back He cannot come back for a broke church, he cannot come back for a sick church, he cannot come back for a church that is in debt that would be against his word. I’m coming back for a glorious church, without spot or wrinkle, so that means there’s going to be some quick transference going on”.
You are not a sinner saved by grace. You are sons and daughters of the Most High God! You are gods! You are God’s reflection on this planet. For you to say that thing is for you to count the blood of Jesus worthless. His blood was sent to cleanse you of your sin and you going around saying that you are still a sinner! What’s the matter with you?”
(Creflo Dollar, Audio-Clip, “Creflo Dollar: Christian Celebrity or Charismatic Gnostic?” #0418)
“I speak to fig tress! I speak to mountains! I cast out demons! Hallelujah! I raise the dead! Hallelujah! If need be I walk on water! I’m a god of the Most High God!”
(Creflo Dollar, Audio-Clip, “Creflo Dollar: Christian Celebrity or Charismatic Gnostic?” #0418)
Creflo Dollar Says - “I’m a little ‘g.’ I need to start carrying myself like the Most High God! I’m a little god on this planet.”
(Creflo Dollar, Audio-Clip, “Creflo Dollar: Christian Celebrity or Charismatic Gnostic?” #0418)
Creflo Dollar Says - “What do you think is going to happen when God Almighty declares, ‘I want you to create a universe? I want you to speak to these worlds. And like I said, ‘Light be,’ you say, ‘Light be!’ Like I said, ‘Let there be a firmament in the midst of the firmament,’ you do the same! I share with you my authority! I share with you my power! Start acting like my children!” (Creflo Dollar, Audio-Clip, “Creflo Dollar: Christian Celebrity or Charismatic Gnostic?” #0418)
Creflo Dollar Says - “We have been looking for the glory because we have not realized that we are the glory of God.”
(Creflo Dollar, “Growth Means Change,” September 29, 2002, Product Number: 3422093)
I aint know about yall but I’m not looking for Glory I’m looking to give GOd all the Glory, and honor. It almost made the hair on the back of my neck stand reading some of the things Creflo Dollar preaches.
Every one wants to say that Melvin Jones and G Craig Lewis are crazy but people the information is out there, do you research for yourself you’ll find it.
isaiah 14:11-15 what creflo said sounds closely related to what satan said ????? constance i couldn’t sit still while i was reading this i fear for this man
Brother melvin,
I just want to let you know that I am not on the side of Creflo Dollar, I am not on the side of Jamal Bryant, I am on the Lord’s side and I am in agreement with what the bible says. Now I want to run through some scripture. The first place that I want to go to is Phillipians 2:5-8
Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
Phl 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
Phl 2:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
Phl 2:8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
One thing that I know for a fact is that Jesus did not start with Mary. Jesus came through Mary because prophesy had to be. In fact Jesus is the one that said in Genesis ” Let us make man in our own im