Again I’m not here to argue a point, but we as the body of Christ must keep ourselves pure and nothing can defile us quicker than money. Brother, I see your point, the reason why I see it, is because the church for so long has looked to businesses for donations. Souveneir booklets in smaller churches, businesses trying to get write- offs have donated money to churches. It has been accepted through the years. It’s touchy, and I believe some people have the right motives, but the wrong means.

Run! They’ll eat you alive out here!

You have to admit, Melvin is revealing some things that need to be talked about and/or at least considered by the church.

-Someone very close to me in ministry has “accepted” the teachings of this man. The overall focus (or lack of) dis-heartens me. I pray for them, and for me to see it is discouraging.

-We (as a group) actaully attended a “Oneness” church recently (unknowingly), and I saw a couple of strange things that tipped me off….and the fact he kept talking about water baptism, water baptism, water baptism gave it away as well. They all became apparent once I pried through the doctrinal statement.

-I was asked if I “liked” the church. I said “No”. I explained why, and broke the doctrinal statement down. They were slightly discoruaged, but yet I felt as if I had no choice. Truth validates itself.

-The following week they ventured to McClendon’s church. They know how I feel about him.

-McClendon (though the divorce and all was back in 2000) has me cautious because he participates in the TBN telethons and such.

-He still preaches a money centered gospel. On one occasion some months ago someone told me they prayed at his church and whoever was praying was callling upon “the spirit of Elijah”.

-By all of this, there is no basis for the Word in which they go to his church (except that God forgives and the music is good…I can tell music is the kicker for the emotional experience, I dont think they can see it) and it discourages me but yet I realize that my influence can win them and open their eyes by my mere conduct alone in Christ.

-I am not as quick to point out the direction of the error as they already have been repeatedly warned.

-For those who do not know the story of Clarence M runs like this (it is was public soap opera):

*Married at 18
*3 children
*Divorced his wife of 16 years (*Well she technichally divorced him)
*Charisma Mag had interviewed both he and his ex-wife about the matter:

McClendon says he and his wife got married for “All the wrong reasons”.

*McClendon also says that:” My calling is to preach and not be married”

*Is re-married FIVE days after his divorce is final.

*His denomination (Four-Square) asked him to step down for 6mos due to the matter and undergo a review by the Ethics committee and they would deem after that period if he was to fit to go back and lead.

*McClendon instead pulled his congregation from the denom (who owned the building he had, they own ALL the bldgs in the denom) and proceeded to hold services all over the place while charging FourSquare with “systematic and institutionalist racism”. YES. THE RACE CARD.

*A cover for the fact he deliberately sinned, and it is public…and he has brought discipline on himself through his denomination.

*He picks up and leaves, and is now in Gardena (not far from South Cent Los Angeles).

Charisma interviews his wife and she says:
*Clarence had been wanting a divorcve for the prior 5 years.
*Clarence asked her to divorce him as to not make it look bad on his ministry.
*Clarence never (before the divorce) charged or spoke of FourSquare with any form or racism and they talked about everything.

Now, I guess I know that it isnt wise for them to sit with him…they know I have barked about that. BUT….I wonder, though God forgives all manner of sin…..since this act was so public and deliberate I wonder if it is possible that in this sitaution he (McClendon) is IN SIN.

Meaning living in it, married and all.

**He also uttered this statement which means absolutely nothing, I think he is trying to SOUND educated but really shows the ignorance of men such as this:

“Denominationalism induces fellowship between people who are alike and can come to the point where there is intercourse between themselves, and that produces birth defects.”

http://www.charismamag.com/display.php?id=469

http://www.charismamag.com/display.php?id=6614
“Or take Clarence McClendon of Los Angeles. When he divorced his wife of 16 years and then remarried someone else within a week, his actions affected many other pastors and hurt many church members.

At one time McClendon was one of the up-and-coming leaders in the Pentecostal arena. Now his national influence is a fraction of what it was. And because of the visibility of his divorce, believers are scrutinizing other up-and-coming leaders and wondering, Will they be the next to fall?”

This article is about his ex-wife picking up the pieces after the damage was done.
http://www.charismamag.com/display.php?id=636

Sorry if I misunderstood your question. It is clearer in your second post what you are asking.

I still think I Timothy 3:1-7 addresses your question. These are the verses I would present to your friend.

Then ask your friend these questions:
Is this leader blameless?
Is he the husband of one wife?
Is he temperate, sober-minded, of good behavior, hospitable?
Can he teach? More importantly, how will he teach on marriage, adultery, sin, obedience, self-control, leadership, etc? How will he preform marriage convents, since he broke his?
Can people say he is not given to wine, not violent, not greedy for money,but gentle, not quarrelsome, not covetous?

You get my point. Sometimes the best way to help a person to process the information is by asking questions and listening to their responses.

Here is what one commentary says about these verses: http://www.biblegateway.com/resources/commentaries/index.php?action=getCommentaryText&cid=10&source=1&seq=i.61.3.1

Personally, common sense would tell me not to keep myself under this person’s leadership. BUT common sense does not mean common practice, especially if someone has sat under false teaching. I pray you will be able to wisely and patiently give counsel to your friend.

Again, please forgive my first post to your question, but perhaps it will help someone else with their questions on marriage and divorce.

My question has nothing to do with actual divorce. It is the FACT that someone DELIBERATELY divorces (I KNOW God hates it in ALL circumstances) and remarries within a week…..

(MN: Ah!! You mean like Clarence McClendon, the man who divorced his wife and VERY shortly after that married a sweet young thing from the audience. You mean like that? )

The fact that this person is in LEADERSHIP makes it & them more visible, My inquiry has to do with sitting up under someone’s leadership who has committed this, as I wonder if they (THE leader) ABIDES in sin. I often recollect the blind leading the blind in Matthew 15:14 and if this applies here.

My inquiry has nothing to do with divorce, nor should there be divorce…but rather is it wise for someone to remain within the leadership of someone who was apparently so blatent in it (divorce/remarriage), and does this “leader” abide in sin since the act was obviously NOT w/o forknowledge.

They lied, covered it up and remarried within a week. This person is visible, VERY visible.

1) Does this leader ABIDE in SIN since it was deliberate?

2) IS it wise for someone to remain (though they justfy so) within the realm of this individual (the leader whom has committed these acts)? (MN: Quick answer - Heck no it’s not wise. You should run as far from that bozo as possible. It would be like sitting under P. White, Randy White, or Clarence M. )

***I know the Bible condemns those who are “brothers” and engage in nefarious activities, and I wonder if this applies, especially to a “leader”….because the “leader” claims to be in Christ…..and has not repented to the people…and the person I know justifies the leaders behavior***

the Words of Jesus on divorce are these:
“Some Pharisees came to him to test him. They asked, “Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for any and every reason?”

“Haven’t you read,” he replied, “that at the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female,’and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh’? So they are no longer two, but one. Therefore what God has joined together, let man not separate.”

“Why then,” they asked, “did Moses command that a man give his wife a certificate of divorce and send her away?”

Jesus replied, “Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning. I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, and marries another woman commits adultery.” Matthew 19:3-10

To the married I give this command (not I, but the Lord): A wife must not separate from her husband. But if she does, she must remain unmarried or else be reconciled to her husband. And a husband must not divorce his wife.

To the rest I say this (I, not the Lord): If any brother has a wife who is not a believer and she is willing to live with him, he must not divorce her. And if a woman has a husband who is not a believer and he is willing to live with her, she must not divorce him. For the unbelieving husband has been sanctified through his wife, and the unbelieving wife has been sanctified through her believing husband. Otherwise your children would be unclean, but as it is, they are holy.

But if the unbeliever leaves, let him do so. A believing man or woman is not bound in such circumstances; God has called us to live in peace. How do you know, wife, whether you will save your husband? Or, how do you know, husband, whether you will save your wife?” 1 Corinthians 7: 10-15

There are other verses to look at, but these three references will help you. God never changes His mind. He still hates divorce. Jesus said in Matthew “Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning.” It is the culture that changes, not GOD. The church has to be careful it does not change with the culture.

Churches all over the world are accepting “divorce for convenience” to run through our congregations. We have to stop the cycle. What should break our hearts is the fact that God choice to use marriage as a demonstration of His relationship with us. When we divorce we show the world an ugly and distorted picture of God’s love.

Is there forgiveness for divorce? I believe there is, because of the blood of Jesus. BUT there has to be a true repentance for the sin. Re-read the story of David and see the repentance he had when Samuel confronted him. Read Psalm 51, which is David’s repentance before the Lord.

Are there consquences after the forgiveness of God? YES. The rest of the story of David tells us that. But really look at the homes of divorced families today and you will know there are consquences.

You say this person is a leader. I’m not sure what type of leader you mean, but this is what the Word says for Pastors, Bishops, Overseers, etc.

“This is a faithful saying: If a man desires the position of a bishop, he desires a good work. A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, temperate, sober-minded, of good behavior, hospitable, able to teach; not given to wine, not violent, not greedy for money,but gentle, not quarrelsome, not covetous; one who rules his own house well, having his children in submission with all reverence (for if a man does not know how to rule his own house, how will he take care of the church of God?); not a novice, lest being puffed up with pride he fall into the same condemnation as the devil. Moreover he must have a good testimony among those who are outside, lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.” I Timothy 3:1-7.

I’m sorry for the long post. As you can tell, I’m passionate about this subject. I choice to follow the Word and leading of God in my situation and God was faithful to heal my marriage. We just celebrated 15 yrs.

Because we have a Groom that is faithful,
Cheryl

(MN: I was wondering if anybody would mention that. They had another baby (Solomon by name) and Bathsheba made sure Solomon ended up being the king after David. A bunch of people got killed because of that bit of scheming. )

-Person “A” gets married. Then divorces after some time only to marry to Person “B” days after legally divorcing.

I know all sin is forgiven of the Lord, but yet (ie. King David and Bathsheeba) for one to re-marry (and especially so quickly)….is there true repentance in the “new” marriage and can God accept it? Or do they “reside” in adultery?

David didnt continue with Bathsheeba and repented, so my question is….can God (though he is merciful) REALLY honor a divorce & marriage that is so apparently deliberate? Especially with a “leader”?

I am attempting to “tactfully” prepare myself to break this thing down to someone who doesn’t care…and says God “loves” them (the “leader” and his wife).

As you look at the situation…you probably can easily tell who (”leader”) I am referencing. Any and ALL answers are greatly appreciated.

(MN: Please tell me you can see the difference between sponsoring an activity for business (there is no reason to assume the business men are Christians) and following a person as a disciple.

How do I propose to preach the Gospel throughout the world? One individual at a time. How much does it cost you to tell your coworker? How much does it cost you to talk to your unsaved friends about Jesus Christ? How much does it cost for you to train your children in righteousness so they will also be willing and able to preach the word? Why do you think it takes a convention center to do it? It’s your job to preach the word to the world, not just the job of a Big Dog wannabee. )

(MN: I UNDERSTAND VERA. I JUST HOPE NO ONE EVER STEALS ANYTHING FROM YOU OR YOU DON’T FIND OUT THAT SOME CHILD IS BEING MOLESTED. ‘CAUSE FROM WHAT YOU ARE SAYING, ALL YOU ARE GOING TO DO HAVE A RELATIONSHIP WITH GOD BY YOURSELF AND TELL YOUR CREATOR YOUR SECRETS. BY THE WAY, HOW DO YOU KEEP THE CHILD FROM BEING MOLESTED? DO YOU JUST WHISPER YOUR SECRETS TO GOD AGAIN?

I SUSPECT YOU ARE A LOT LIKE THE RELIGIONISTS WHO STEPPED OVER THE MAN WHO HAD BEEN ATTACKED BY THE ROBBERS AND LEFT FOR DEAD> I MUST SAY, I THINK YOUR RELIGION IS BOTH THOUGHTLESS AND WORTHLESS. YOU SHOULD BE ASHAMED OF YOURSELF. )

I suspect that you are correct! Even my parrot can repeat the “sinners prayer”. And parrots ain’t saved!

(MN: And if you spent ANY time in the Bible, you wouldn’t spend so much time mistaking these snakes for children of God. )

Kyle

See Melvin? You have it all wrong I just knew it!! Stop backing up what you are saying with scripture!! My word, how much less sense can one make? Thats your problem Melvin, thats whats wrong with you, its always scripture, scripture. Stop it I say!

Ok sorry I couldn’t keep a straight face any longer.