Apparently the idea of having the ungodly (or at least the somewhat secular) sponsor a “Christian” event is really starting to catch on.
As you know, The ‘Mess 2006 is being sponsored by Kraft, Coca Cola, Pine Sol, and a host of other secular organizations. It could just be me, but it seems wrong to have the unsaved provide aid to things that at least theoretically are supposed to be about God.
But I guess what works for T. Dexter is going to work for Donnie McClurkin even while they claim to be separating themselves from the world. Take a look at this ad for the Youth Xplosion (click here).
On the Youth Xplosion website, McClurkin says:
“More than an event, PFC YOUTH XPLOSION 2006 will be a movement of a generation living radically for His Name! We will bring together today’s generation from all races and cultures in Long Island, NY on July 27th - 29th 2006, where thousands of young people will come together from across the country to set this world on fire for Christ!”
Click here to see the text.
I have a couple of problems with this.
1. He talks about radical Christianity
2. He talks about the youth attending the conference setting the world on fire for the Lord
Why do I have a problem with McClurkin talking about radical Christianity? Simple. The stuff he is doing is typical and not in any way radical. What Jesus did in Luke 9:1-6 is radical. He sent them out in twos to proclaim the Gospel. He did not beg money from the wealthy centurions, the local newspaper, or the local chariot manufacturer to support them. He trusted God to meet the disciples’ needs.
Paul, a tentmaker by trade, didn’t ask for money from the local idol manufacturers or the shipbuilders. He depended on contributions from the church, over and over again. Take a look at 2 Cor 9:5 and Philippians 4:16.
Even back in the Old Testament, Abraham had enough sense not to take anything from the unsaved, the heathen if you will. He said “I have lifted my hand to the Lord, God Most High, Possessor of heaven and earth, that I would not take a thread or a sandal strap or anything that is yours, lest you should say, ‘I have made Abram rich.’” He said this in Genesis 14:21-23.
Let’s see, who’s going to pay for the conference facilities? The New York Knicks? And who will pay for the gathering at the colleseum? Maybe FM Radio 98.7 Kiss?
I’m not much of a sports fan. I do even less to keep up with the personal lives of the ball players, male or female. But it’s not too difficult to check on the radio station 98.7 KISS.
Click here to take a look at the home page for 98.7KISS.
So if I understand correctly, we want our little munchkins (and the not so little munchkins) to be imitators of Christ. And we do that by taking money from, and advertising for sponsors who promote men like Doug E. Fresh (read the lyrics from a couple of his songs , then go to confession for saying such words, even in your head) and women like Mary J. Blige. I guess I could win a couple of people to Christ with a belly button like hers. You think?
How convincing do you think any speakers will be when they tell them to dress modestly and have speech appropriate to who they say they are?
But I guess I shouldn’t be too upset. I mean after all, McClurkin is just imitating his mentor T. Dexter, and Juanita Bynum (click here), and a host of others who would use an association with the Gospel (even a loose one) to make a couple of bucks.
While they run this scam on you (all the while whining that it takes money to do God’s work), you give them anywhere from $35 to $75 so you can get your PRAYZE on (Click Here). And this is supposed to set the world on fire?
The early disciples set the world on fire through personal sacrifice (you know- that dying to self thing), prayer and holy living. Are the youth now going to do it through concerts, PRAYZE, and ponying up the cash?
These pimps get money from you. They get money and resources from the sponsors. And the only thing you get is the privilege of knowing that you have helped provide publicity for the heathen and made the leaders of Perfecting Faith Church a little more cozy with the unsaved. They walk away with your cash and you walk away with what? You walk away with the pride of knowing that you helped advertise for Doug E. Fresh and Mary J. Blige. Yeah. That works.
I’m going to say it again: These people think you are stupid.
Please help me out, Melvin…It is wrong for the use of “secular” aid for the “church” event, right…but is it okay to use their products? Aren’t we giving money to “unsaved”, “secular” organizations? Once again, I ask where is the line of distinction drawn?
An excellent question Tweet; and a demonstration that you are not one of the mind-numbed Melvinites forced to read the site’s content and forced to agree with everything I say.
But to answer your question, consider the following.
When I buy something from the unsaved, I’m not giving that person something. We are exchanging value. I have dollars and I want my lawn cut. You want dollars and you can cut grass. We get together and negotiate how many dollars you will charge to cut my grass. The money goes from me to you. The service goes from you to me. It’s a two-way arrangement based on the exchange of value (dollars and someone else cutting the grass).
The goat rope with KISS, American Airlines, and others is significantly different. Here’s how.
McClurkin needs money but he has no service to offer to American Airlines, 98.7KISS, or the other businesses. The organizations are willing to give him money without requiring him to provide a service to them (other than endorsing them on his site). In this case, it isn’t the saved exchanging value with the unsaved (money for service), it’s the unsaved giving money to the saved to help the saved do God stuff. It’s a one way arrangement. There is only money going from the unsaved to the saved with no service or value going from the saved to the unsaved.
One could say the endorsements are a service. But that service (such as it is) is the very core of the objection addressed in the article. And it’s an indicator of the true expense of taking money from the unsaved to help you accomplish your program.
From a purely economic standpoint, I’d disagree with your assessment in the 3rd full paragraph. Although to us, it would appear that McClurkin has nothing to offer to the secular companies but an advertising platform, that platform is exactly what these corporate sponsors want. An opportunity to directly advertise to a social group whom they don’t have very many opportunities to advertise directly to.
McClurkin, Jakes and the others are merely offering them a chance to provide tailor-made advertising to African-Americans, who happen to be very big spenders. In a market that categorizes Black Christians as particularly big spenders, this is a golden opportunity to establish their brand. If the companies place a high value on that opportunity, and are willing to fork over big money to these events to do so, then who are we to judge, at least from an economic standpoint. I think, at least in these types of contracts, the value of the consideration (the goods/services exchanged) is a subjective measure of the parties involved.
However, I do agree with the premise of your article, the end result is that secular companies are financing God stuff. And I’ll bet there was some inquiry by the companies as to what would be discussed at this convention before they committed their dollars. There’s no way they would give up the dough if they knew they might be accused of endorsing Jesus, the cross, death, burial, resurrection, sacrificial atonement, etc. . . .
I agree. From a purely economic point of view, this is an imminently sensible thing to do.
This is very much akin to the story of King David’s dialog/transaction with Araunah the Jebusite concerning the threshing floor of the latter. David wanted to BUY the threshing floor in order to build an altar to the Lord,. However, Araunah offered to give the whole ball of yarn to David–everything associated with David’s desired offering. However, David replied: “No, but I will surely buy it from you for a price, for I will not offer burnt offerings to the Lord my God which cost me nothing.” In other words, David’s value of the Lord far outweighed any fleshy offering or feeble attempt at thanksgivings with a “free” gift. Araunah received absolutely nothing but fair market value for the threshing floor–that’s all. But God was “moved by [David’s] entreaty for the land, and the plague was held back.” David sought nor gained anything for himself personally! He was wholeheartedly ACTING to please His God. I know you brothers and sisters have other relative examples of the Word in Action; please share. The Lord Reigns!
Beryle
If you spent as much time working for God, as you do against his children, no matter their condition, we coulf call you productive maybe saved even. Mathew 12:36 says you will be judged by what YOU say,not them, YOU!
(MN: And if you spent ANY time in the Bible, you wouldn’t spend so much time mistaking these snakes for children of God. )
It takes money to pay the people who are ministry at the youth conference. (MN: And who says the “Youth Conference” had to take place? ) These people had to come all the way from another state and it wasn’t free. (MN: Who said “these people” had to come to the state? Couldn’t the pastor, through solid expository teaching, have done the same or better as these people would claim to do? ) It cost money to pay for the building. (MN: Who says you have to use a separate building. Why not have specific training at the church? I guarantee you if he teaches Bible, there won’t be an overflow of people. ) Maybe they should bring the fee down, but still he need money to pay someone set the atmosphere. (MN: I thought the idea was to teach Biblical principals. Why would you need “atmosphere” for that? Paul didn’t have atmosphere. Jesus didn’t have atmosphere. Peter, when he was talking to Cornelius, didn’t have atmosphere.) He could also be raising money to help those in need. (MN: Why are you being so sycophantic in defending these people? You literally swallow a camel and then strain at a gnat. ) People would pay that much money at concert just to see one person perform. (MN: Which is exactly what this was - a performance. ) I learn for myself it cost money to put something together. (MN: So did I. It cost money to put John Coleman up. The snacks we had on the first night of the Basics of the Faith cost money (Eric and his wife were gracious enough to take care of it), and John had to eat. I spent money on gas. John spent money reproducing the lessons, and people spent their own money on gas and lunch. So why didn’t I have to charge for the “conference”? ) When everyone pitches in, it helps out more. When they get there I’m sure they will get their money worth. (MN: No. They were simply entertained and had their young ears tickled in preparation for having them tickled as adults. )It also keeps our young people off the streets. I would rather for them to be at a youth ministry then at a worldly concert. I feel it’s a wonderful thing Donnie is doing. (MN: Do you defend the child molester next door this thoughtlessly? )
MJ,
I guess just simply advertising that a man was going to preach the bible isn’t good enough to reach “Today’s Youth.” First you have to have a tie in to secular music, (why you hatin’, most old school r&b stations play Gospel on the Sunday drive to church!) then you have to use a “radical” spelling change usually using the letter “X” :
Generation X-odus
Youth X-plosion and so on…
Finally, you HAVE to charge a large fee to get in. Melvin, haven’t you learned by now that bringing in the best speakers costs a lot of money??? And remember, “a servant is worhty of the hire.” (I guess we are such outdated fuddy-duddies who think that all we need is just a bible.) When are you gonna learn that preaching th gospel in 2006 requires so much more?
P.S. will Bishop Long be there to hand out the contraception? (I notice they are advertising a hotel for the young ones to stay in)
I was going to say something about Fast Eddie bringing fresh sperm, but I figured that would be too tacky.
You all need to stop flipping the pages in the Bible and start applying what GOD!!!! has already said. You are being very Judgemental so ck yourself!!!!!!!
lol, u guys r wrong lets keep this in the spiritual.
The Babylon harlot religious system fully in bed with the Babylon harltot economic system
And cinnamon, and odours, and ointments, and frankincense, and wine, and oil, and fine flour, and wheat, and beasts, and sheep, and horses, and chariots, and slaves, and souls of men.
And the merchants of the earth shall weep and mourn over her; for no man buyeth their merchandise any more: The merchandise of gold, and silver, and precious stones, and of pearls, and fine linen, and purple, and silk, and scarlet, and all thyine wood, and all manner vessels of ivory, and all manner vessels of most precious wood, and of brass, and iron, and marble, And cinnamon, and odours, and ointments, and frankincense, and wine, and oil, and fine flour, and wheat, and beasts, and sheep, and horses, and chariots, and slaves, and souls of men. Rev 18:11-13
check this out…
http://www.wittenburgdoor.com/archives/creflodollar2.html
Donnie McClurkin is my pastor and I am on the youth board. I would like to let you know over 500 youth got saved and I got delivered from secular music and many ungodly friends. But of course, that means nothing to you because KissFM had something to do with it. Thanks….
(MN: Okay, let’s see if I can get you to understand this. It’s nice that over 500 youth got up and walked to the stage when McClurkin finished with them. And if these were real live, valid conversions, that would be wonderful. But I have a couple of questions with observations.
1. What does it mean to be delivered from secular music? Is there something intrinsically sinful about the Carpenters singing “Love Look at the Two of Us.” Or perhaps Captain and Tenille’s song “Love Will Keep .
Us Together” are songs that enslave the listener into a sinful and rebellious lifestyle. Perhaps I should burn my complete Barry Manilow collection or break every last one of my Wayne Newton albums? Or perhaps in memory of the Hardest Working Man in show business, I should run over all my James Brown 8 tracks. And of course, the follow-on question is: If you see secular music as such a horrid thing, something to be delivered from, why in the world were you be hypocritical enough to serve on the Youth Board (whatever that is) while defiling your ears with Satan’s music? Granted, some people (like that supposed connoisseur of, GaryV, who listens to Elvis all day long) might think that being forced to listen to Barry M is the same as an eternity in hell, but is it intrinsically evil? If so, is football? Are all non-religious television shows?
2. What sense does it make for an event in which people are delivered from secular music to be sponsored by an organization that makes its money by broadcasting the very secular music you, and I assume others, were supposedly delivered from? Isn’t the money they gave awfully close to blood money?
If the event was intended as a ministry device, why was a secular organization involved at all? Can’T God manage to raise the resources to get the job done? Or is he too much like men, trusting in men?
Your pastor pimped you and very likely has given the 500+ a false hope in salvation. I’d go talk to a couple or three of them to see where they are with respect to salvation. I suspect they are still dead in their sins. )
I’ll have you know that I DO NOT listen to Elvis all day long.
Sometimes I listen to Elvis at night too……….
u listen to evils, i mean elvis- (oops, a lil’ freudian slip there i suspect) all day?!?!?
nancyboo is quite a gal.
what have you done lately to bring others to their salvation? It is our jobs as Christians to be an example not to change them that is where God comes in. Once he is given authority( permission) to come into our lives then he begins to work with us on our change. That is why we have to confess with our mouth and ask. So if Donnie McClurkin has moved 500 people to decide they want to be save who are you to judge. With the same judgement you also shall be judged.
(MN: The site is not here to “bring others to their salvation.” The site is here to warn you and others like you about the pimps and wolves preying on the sheep.
And remember, McClurkin CAN’T MOVE ANYBODY TO DECIDE THEY WANT TO BE SAVED. Only God can do that. And it doesn’t depend on Youth Explosion scams. )
Wow. Cliche’, after cliche’, after cliche’. God must move upon the individuals to come to him.
The note said …..”Once he is GIVEN authority…..If Donnie McClurkin has moved………..DECIDE THEY WANT to be saved.”
John 12:32
And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all [men] unto me.
John 6:37
All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
This is HUGE part of the problem, men are teaching that WE have the power to do these things (ie-we are Gods).
“I suspect they are still dead in their sins.”
I suspect that you are correct! Even my parrot can repeat the “sinners prayer”. And parrots ain’t saved!
Some Secular music does have a binding effect on people. If music does not glofify God, what does it do? YEah, there are some positive songs that talk about things that are not neccessarily sinful, but not neccessarily Godly either. Today’s secular music is wild. We did a survey in our church youth group: We asked a simple question, “what is the reason why you are not saved? Over 90% said the music. The artists and music now is a lot diffrent from back in the day. Really man, I have talked with some of the kids and listened to there ipods and walkman’s to see. I definitly see it as a weapon of Satan.
You must be a very unhappy person.
(MN: Only when I see poor sheeple like you standing in line to be fleeced. )
SMH,
You have to admit, Melvin is revealing some things that need to be talked about and/or at least considered by the church.
I REST MY CASE MELVIN, BE BLESSED LIKE THE MORNING DEW. YOUR REASONING TO ONE SUBJECT ALLOWED A LOT MORE REASONING FROM MANY OTHERS WHO REASONED OUT. I AM CONVINCED. BUT HOW DO I NOW STOP LISTENING TO WOLVES BECAUSE ITS BEEN 8 YEARS NOW.
Is this article getting on McClurkin due to his backing or his message? I don’t see too much wrong with him getting money from the secular world to do his ministry. the bible did say something along the lines of the wealth of the wicked is transfered by the Lord. Now, if there is err in the message, than that is a different story. On that, let me know and I will form my opinion then.
Melvin! keep SKULL dragging the devil and these wolves and sheeps clothing…Everybody screeming judge this and judge not that…. we better start rightfully dividing the word of Truth. How many Christians today use discerement? Secondly, the heart of the man is not being judge here, but it is his/her unfruit works that is being brought to the light. This stuff ain’t in secret, it’s in the open.. Come “carnal-stians” [false: christ, teachers, prophets, do exsist in todays world…Apostasy also is real too..]
Last note: You can’t use the spirit of the world to bring in young people.. If you use the world to bring them in your going to need the world to keep them…
God Bless you Melvin continue to stay on the WALL my brother… may God continue to be with you and this great ministry.. P.S. The Truth Behind Hiphop Part 4 was the back breaker.. you should’ve been there doc.. it was truly a blessing… Late.
If the secular company isn’t tied to anything ungodly then there’s no reason why they can’t support a ministry. In early America is was common place for Ford or the Rockerfellas to support a ministry and or it’s charities. Wow even singers aren’t safe on this site this is hilarious i’m still looking for a reason to take Melvin seriously.
(MN: Stop looking now. All of the posts are the same. They all warn people about the wolves who are here to fleece the sheep. I really don’t care if you take me seriously or not. I’m not here to convince you. I’m only here to warn you. YOu certainly can choose to listen or not. )
Looks like I need to repost Matthew 6:1-4
By Jesus’ own definition, they are hypocrites. Plastering their logo on anything they can, while these people claiming the Lord allow it and use the hypocrisy to
line their own pocketssupport their ministry, yea, that’s the ticket! Notice I said “THEIR” ministry.Danharr,
Run! They’ll eat you alive out here!
IF the secular company isn’t tied to anything unGodly……….well, let’s see.
MegaFest was sponsored in part by Ford, Bank Of America, American Airlines, and Coca-Cola.
FORD……..
The Ford Motor company, either through its company policies or through donations, has been supportive of several gay and lesbian goals.
Examples, mostly from the Ford Motor Company site:
In a press release dated 2/1/05, Ford announced a pledge of $250,000 to the “Affirmations Lesbian and Gay Community Center in the Detroit suburb of Ferndale, one of the largest donations ever made from a fortune 500 company to a lesbian, bisexual and transgender (GLBT) organization.
In March, 2004, the co-founder of Ford’s gay, lesbian or bisexual employees group (GLOBE) was honored by the Affirmations Lesbian and Gay Community center.
In April, 2004, Volvo Cars of North American (a division of Ford) was given an Advertising Research Foundation award for it’s campaign targeting GLBT customers.
In June, 2004, Diversity Inc. named Ford as among the top 10 companies for GLBT workers.
In July, 2004, Ford became the first of the Big-3 auto companies to add “Gender Identity” as a protected category.
In July, 2002, Ford hired Witeck/Combs Communications to handle their advertising to the gay and lesbian market, according to the Witeck/Combs website.
MAZDA MOTOR COMPANY provides ABORTIONS at its company facilities.
Mazda Hospital - Mazda Motor Corporation
3-1, Shinchi, Fuchu-cho, Aki-gun
Hiroshima, Japan 730-91
phone: 81-82-282-1111
Mazda is a brand name under the FORD MOTOR COMPANY “Trustmark.”
Ford Motor Company nominates the CEO and several key directors at Mazda.
Ford Motor Company Agrees that Abortions are provided at the Mazda Hospital.
COKE………
Have a Coke and a … homosexuality-celebrating parade? That’s right. Coca-Cola has made the decision to join Bell South, U.S. Airways and Verizon Wireless in sponsoring “Atlanta Pride,” the area’s annual “gay” celebration.
This is not Coca-Cola’s first pro-homosexual act. According to the Gay Financial Network, the Coca-Cola Company:
* has a “gay” & lesbian employee group: KOLAGE (a play off Coca-Cola’s New York Stock Exchange symbol, KO);
* explicitly prohibits discrimination based on “sexual orientation” in the company’s written employment policy statement;
* provides diversity training, which includes “sexual orientation” issues;
* offers spousal benefits to “domestic partners” of employees “on an equal basis with those granted to married employees.”
BANK OF AMERICA
Corporate sponsor of Planned Parenthood, the largest abortion provider in the country.
AMERICAN AIRLINES
American Airlines, voted a “gold standard U.S. carrier for hospitality and service” by readers of Out Traveler magazine last year and recipient of a top score of 100 percent on HRC’s 2005 Corporate Equality Index, is celebrating Gay Pride Month. It’s noted on the company’s web site for LGBT employees, amrgleam.com.
Tomorrow, the company will feature a talk by Matthew Shepard’s mom, “Erase Hate: An Evening with Judy Shepard,” at the AA Training and Conference Center in Ft. Worth, Texas.
The airline, which was also the first major U.S. carrier to protect its transgendered employees.”
American Airlines has been a supporter of the homosexual lifestyle by contributing a portion of the airline ticket profits to organizations such as: Human Rights Campaign and the Gay and Lesbian Alliance Against Defamation. On February 18, 1997 Concerned Women for American joined with Family Research Council, Coral Ridge Ministries, and American Family Association in an effort to let American Airlines know that their sponsorship of homosexuality should be put to a stop.
Last year, American Airlines sponsored the April 1996 Cherry Jubilee festival. What goes on at such parties? According to a homosexual magazine, the Advocate, they “are not simply dances at which people have a few cocktails or a few puffs of pot. Many of them —most, according to friends who have traveled the circuit —are festivals of serious drug consumption, the Woodstocks of gay life.” Cherry Jubilee was also marked by episodes of public homosexual sex. American Airlines deemed itself “the official airline of Cherry Jubilee” and it gave an extra 10 percent discount on the airfare of those attending the festival.
Even the homosexual magazine, the Advocate, has begun to question the wisdom of AIDS awareness events like Cherry Jubilee that promote the very behavior that spreads the disease.
COKE………
Twenty years ago, Los Angeles’s pride observance was one of the first gay celebrations to attract corporate dollars–from Miller Brewing Co. and Anheuser-Busch. Today, it boasts about two dozen corporate sponsors, and Anheuser-Busch’s Bud Light is a sponsor of multiple pride events, as are Showtime Networks, Absolut Vodka, Miller Lite, Wells Fargo, Del Monte’s Pounce and Pup-peroni pet food brands, Bank of America, and Washington Mutual.
The list of sponsors for Atlanta’s celebration this June includes more than two dozen names, including CocaCola, BellSouth, Washington Mutual, Delta Air Lines, Verizon Wireless, Coors, Showtime, and Sheraton. The large number of sponsors means organizers of one of Atlanta’s biggest outdoor events can stage an elaborate celebration at no cost to the public”
Yup…………..no problems THERE.
2Cr 6:14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?
2Cr 6:15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?
2Cr 6:16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in [them]; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean [thing]; and I will receive you,
Even if they are as God fearing a company as Chick-fil-A it does not matter. Jesus said the money changers should not be marketing up in the temple. Now we know our “church” is not a building, however, when we designate a place for worship and have big company logos all over the place it’s nothing more than another form of allowing the money changers into our worship.
And often at those sorts of events, they name the sponsors over the sound system, in case you missed their logos all over the place.
Maybe this is why Jesus and the apostles often met outside in open fields.
The bottom line is, if it can’t be done via freely given donations, it should not be done and that’s something Christians need to learn to accept.
Besides, I understand payment and honor for ministers, elders and such, but double (and today it’s more like 100X) honor for singers?… Come on. Give me a break! We’ve got this thing totally messed up!
I’m new here, but I really enjoy seeing different views about the direction of Christianity and the influence of the media to promote the current ‘prosperity gospel.”
Welcome Sylvia!! Buckle up and hold on………..it can be a bumpy ride
Sorry Gary but all products either cater to benifit the world in some way. Ford is not the church so it has no responsibility to line up with our Christian beliefs. They can sell cars to anyone and support the life styles of there employees. This isn’t a theocracy as I recall your administration is in the mideast fighting that sort of thing. As for your Mazda comment no I don’t believe you can go to work and have an abortion stay of Christian Wrong radio. I really hate I left myself open to such childish rebukes “hey look danharr every little thing a secular compay does he he” but I was so frustrated at how so many ministries were attacked without substance I made a lame argument. If a fortune 500 company wants to support people trying to spread Gods word I don’t see a problem.
(MN: So where do you draw the line? What if Hugh Hefner and Playboy want to contribute to AND ADVERTISE during a conference of some kind or another. Or let’s say Planned Parenthood or NARAL want to sponsor AND ADVERTISE IN some activity involving teenage youth. Would that be acceptable to you? Or perhaps a church’s “Health Ministry” should be sponsored by Fourex rubbers, excuse me, prophylactics. I don’t suppose you would have a problem with them passing out free samples by any chance? If you would have a probelm with any of these scenarios, why? )
You know full well why it would be a problem because these are organizations and products or services that go directly against God. Coke and Ford cars are neither evil or good and the fact that they take care of there employees is a spurilous comparison. Once again if a company that doesn’t support with it’s products an ungodly lifestyle like your silly condom and abortion comparisons. I don’t see why they can’t support someone trying to do God’s work but a ministry shouldn’t take money from a naral or condom company.
I’m not here to bash or anything like that, but I do believe the church can easily lose sight on God, by being too “commercial”. It might be safe to say, that if “church folks” supported God’s work more we wouldnt have to look to the “world”.
Again I’m not here to argue a point, but we as the body of Christ must keep ourselves pure and nothing can defile us quicker than money. Brother, I see your point, the reason why I see it, is because the church for so long has looked to businesses for donations. Souveneir booklets in smaller churches, businesses trying to get write- offs have donated money to churches. It has been accepted through the years. It’s touchy, and I believe some people have the right motives, but the wrong means.
hi melville, what is NARAL? i figure the na is national association but for what?
(MN: No. Not National Association. It stands for National Abortion Rights Action League. They promote the right of a mother to kill her child before the child is born. )
Funny you mention NARAL. I used to be a heavy donor to the NRL (National Right to Life) which was is the biggest pro-life group. However, I stopped donating seeing that it was no more than a GOPAC which provided little results. Good intentions indeed but the heavy political ties, little results, and emphasis on self promotion stopped me from giving any more money. Now as for NARAL they are the epitome of sin and the promotion of it. I would hate to be at the white thrown judgment seat if you were one of their Presidents, board members, or supporters. How they can do such things make me cringe.
Kyle
Bravo, I applaud your work, not so lonesome now! lol
I’m Always enlightened to some extent when I visit the site! Stay in the bible, and keep kickin it straight man!Sometimes it gets rough, but I check my balances against the word of GOD! That way, if you get crazy I don’t have to go that way!
Question;
Whats your stand on secular music (music NOT unto GOD) vs. music thats unto GOD?
(MN: With the usual caveats, I generally have no problem with it. Of course there’s the “Me and Mrs. Jones” variety as opposed to “You are the Sunshine of My Life” type of music. But what you listen to is going to have to be determined by your best understanding of what God requires in your life.
As an example - I don’t think drinking is intrinsically wrong. One of my sons is getting married this June. I’m on the hook to foot the tab for the rehearsal dinner. However, despite my view on drinking, the “bar” will be serving only sodas, juices, and the such. Why? The same reason I don’t drink. It’s very difficult to talk to someone about Jesus Christ with a beer in my hand. Make no mistake about it though, I’d like nothing better than a cold brew after cutting the grass on a hot day. )
ok, i have to admit it- i do like john denver songs
you fill up my sennnnnsessss…..
and don’t laugh gary.
(MN: All I can say is: Thank God I’m a Country Boy! )
Hay ms mav check it out
http://clearblogs.com/EZE/
I dont understand, just because these people sing secular music or you dont like the way they look or portray theirselves, they cant promote something positive???? Thats crazy to me, it seems like everything you say (Melvin) you are putting people down because they are not up to your standards. Everytime i stop by this website you have something negative to say and then you back it up with scriptures. You needto look at yourself and see what wrong with you, for you to put dow everything someone says and do. If they are doing something that is not pleasing to God, let him handle it, They will get theirs. But who are you to judge.
“Everytime i stop by this website you have something negative to say and then you back it up with scriptures.”
See Melvin? You have it all wrong I just knew it!! Stop backing up what you are saying with scripture!! My word, how much less sense can one make? Thats your problem Melvin, thats whats wrong with you, its always scripture, scripture. Stop it I say!
Ok sorry I couldn’t keep a straight face any longer.
not
Although you make valid points, be careful. You seem to be judgemental at times without supplying facts to support your statments and that is wrong, for instance, stating that T.D Jakes and Juanita Bynum is Donnie Mcclurkin mentor. I never heard him preach prosperity and Gospel Pschology as T.D Jakes does sometime. I have watched him and observed him for sometime, and he does not pimp the flock whatsoever. Actually, he has preached against it serveral times. I have relatives and friends that do things that I do not agree with and I draw the line as far as my associations. But I believe any chance you get, take it and preach the Gospel.
Amen!!
WELL I JUST WANT TO SAY THAT WE AS HUMANS SHOULD NOT JUDGE ANYONE. ONLY THE CREATOR CAN DECIDE WHO IS FAKE AND WHO IS PURE AND TRUE TO HIS WORD. BUT I HAVE DECIDED A LONG TIME AGO, TO JUST HAVE A RELATIONSHIP WITH THE CREATOR BY MY SELF.SEE I CAN TELL MY CREATOR ALL MY SECRETS AND IT IS KEPT WITH IN HIM.AND I DONT HEAR IT AGAIN.I TRUST ONLY MY CREATOR AND NOT IN MAN.BUT I DO NOT KNOCK THOSE WHO BELIEVE OTHERWISE.
(MN: I UNDERSTAND VERA. I JUST HOPE NO ONE EVER STEALS ANYTHING FROM YOU OR YOU DON’T FIND OUT THAT SOME CHILD IS BEING MOLESTED. ‘CAUSE FROM WHAT YOU ARE SAYING, ALL YOU ARE GOING TO DO HAVE A RELATIONSHIP WITH GOD BY YOURSELF AND TELL YOUR CREATOR YOUR SECRETS. BY THE WAY, HOW DO YOU KEEP THE CHILD FROM BEING MOLESTED? DO YOU JUST WHISPER YOUR SECRETS TO GOD AGAIN?
I SUSPECT YOU ARE A LOT LIKE THE RELIGIONISTS WHO STEPPED OVER THE MAN WHO HAD BEEN ATTACKED BY THE ROBBERS AND LEFT FOR DEAD> I MUST SAY, I THINK YOUR RELIGION IS BOTH THOUGHTLESS AND WORTHLESS. YOU SHOULD BE ASHAMED OF YOURSELF. )
It looks as though Donnie is experiencing some tribulation of his own as he finally stands up for what is right for Christ (see:http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/10/27/obama.gospel/index.html) ….I find it interesting that Obama is at odds with McClurkin but has no problem with Bynum…hmmm…
Melvin, Amongst the disciples who walked with Jesus Christ was a tax collector name Matthew (gov’t worker) and Judas — a thief who held on to the offerings. Are you saying that Christians cannot do business with non-Christian organizations. How do you propose that the gospel be preached throughout the world?
(MN: Please tell me you can see the difference between sponsoring an activity for business (there is no reason to assume the business men are Christians) and following a person as a disciple.
How do I propose to preach the Gospel throughout the world? One individual at a time. How much does it cost you to tell your coworker? How much does it cost you to talk to your unsaved friends about Jesus Christ? How much does it cost for you to train your children in righteousness so they will also be willing and able to preach the word? Why do you think it takes a convention center to do it? It’s your job to preach the word to the world, not just the job of a Big Dog wannabee. )
each one, reach one…. works for me.
Errrrrrr………..Matthew STOPPED being a tax collector to follow Jesus, and Judas was never a disciple to begin with.
I have a question concerning divorce and remarriage…I believe I have the answer, but I need some confirmation.
-Person “A” gets married. Then divorces after some time only to marry to Person “B” days after legally divorcing.
I know all sin is forgiven of the Lord, but yet (ie. King David and Bathsheeba) for one to re-marry (and especially so quickly)….is there true repentance in the “new” marriage and can God accept it? Or do they “reside” in adultery?
David didnt continue with Bathsheeba and repented, so my question is….can God (though he is merciful) REALLY honor a divorce & marriage that is so apparently deliberate? Especially with a “leader”?
I am attempting to “tactfully” prepare myself to break this thing down to someone who doesn’t care…and says God “loves” them (the “leader” and his wife).
As you look at the situation…you probably can easily tell who (”leader”) I am referencing. Any and ALL answers are greatly appreciated.
Grid, I don’t see where David divorced Bathsheba, or where God commanded him to.
(MN: I was wondering if anybody would mention that. They had another baby (Solomon by name) and Bathsheba made sure Solomon ended up being the king after David. A bunch of people got killed because of that bit of scheming. )
Grid, I have study marriage and divorce in the Bible a lot because my marriage was heading to divorce 12 years ago. The Bible states ” ‘I hate divorce,’says the LORD God of Israel’ Malachi 2:16
the Words of Jesus on divorce are these:
“Some Pharisees came to him to test him. They asked, “Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for any and every reason?”
“Haven’t you read,” he replied, “that at the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female,’and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh’? So they are no longer two, but one. Therefore what God has joined together, let man not separate.”
“Why then,” they asked, “did Moses command that a man give his wife a certificate of divorce and send her away?”
Jesus replied, “Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning. I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, and marries another woman commits adultery.” Matthew 19:3-10
To the married I give this command (not I, but the Lord): A wife must not separate from her husband. But if she does, she must remain unmarried or else be reconciled to her husband. And a husband must not divorce his wife.
To the rest I say this (I, not the Lord): If any brother has a wife who is not a believer and she is willing to live with him, he must not divorce her. And if a woman has a husband who is not a believer and he is willing to live with her, she must not divorce him. For the unbelieving husband has been sanctified through his wife, and the unbelieving wife has been sanctified through her believing husband. Otherwise your children would be unclean, but as it is, they are holy.
But if the unbeliever leaves, let him do so. A believing man or woman is not bound in such circumstances; God has called us to live in peace. How do you know, wife, whether you will save your husband? Or, how do you know, husband, whether you will save your wife?” 1 Corinthians 7: 10-15
There are other verses to look at, but these three references will help you. God never changes His mind. He still hates divorce. Jesus said in Matthew “Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning.” It is the culture that changes, not GOD. The church has to be careful it does not change with the culture.
Churches all over the world are accepting “divorce for convenience” to run through our congregations. We have to stop the cycle. What should break our hearts is the fact that God choice to use marriage as a demonstration of His relationship with us. When we divorce we show the world an ugly and distorted picture of God’s love.
Is there forgiveness for divorce? I believe there is, because of the blood of Jesus. BUT there has to be a true repentance for the sin. Re-read the story of David and see the repentance he had when Samuel confronted him. Read Psalm 51, which is David’s repentance before the Lord.
Are there consquences after the forgiveness of God? YES. The rest of the story of David tells us that. But really look at the homes of divorced families today and you will know there are consquences.
You say this person is a leader. I’m not sure what type of leader you mean, but this is what the Word says for Pastors, Bishops, Overseers, etc.
“This is a faithful saying: If a man desires the position of a bishop, he desires a good work. A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, temperate, sober-minded, of good behavior, hospitable, able to teach; not given to wine, not violent, not greedy for money,but gentle, not quarrelsome, not covetous; one who rules his own house well, having his children in submission with all reverence (for if a man does not know how to rule his own house, how will he take care of the church of God?); not a novice, lest being puffed up with pride he fall into the same condemnation as the devil. Moreover he must have a good testimony among those who are outside, lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.” I Timothy 3:1-7.
I’m sorry for the long post. As you can tell, I’m passionate about this subject. I choice to follow the Word and leading of God in my situation and God was faithful to heal my marriage. We just celebrated 15 yrs.
Because we have a Groom that is faithful,
Cheryl
No, No, no, No……I wans’t going to respond as the initial response to my inquiry took the heart of my question to left field.
My question has nothing to do with actual divorce. It is the FACT that someone DELIBERATELY divorces (I KNOW God hates it in ALL circumstances) and remarries within a week…..
(MN: Ah!! You mean like Clarence McClendon, the man who divorced his wife and VERY shortly after that married a sweet young thing from the audience. You mean like that? )
The fact that this person is in LEADERSHIP makes it & them more visible, My inquiry has to do with sitting up under someone’s leadership who has committed this, as I wonder if they (THE leader) ABIDES in sin. I often recollect the blind leading the blind in Matthew 15:14 and if this applies here.
My inquiry has nothing to do with divorce, nor should there be divorce…but rather is it wise for someone to remain within the leadership of someone who was apparently so blatent in it (divorce/remarriage), and does this “leader” abide in sin since the act was obviously NOT w/o forknowledge.
They lied, covered it up and remarried within a week. This person is visible, VERY visible.
1) Does this leader ABIDE in SIN since it was deliberate?
2) IS it wise for someone to remain (though they justfy so) within the realm of this individual (the leader whom has committed these acts)? (MN: Quick answer - Heck no it’s not wise. You should run as far from that bozo as possible. It would be like sitting under P. White, Randy White, or Clarence M. )
***I know the Bible condemns those who are “brothers” and engage in nefarious activities, and I wonder if this applies, especially to a “leader”….because the “leader” claims to be in Christ…..and has not repented to the people…and the person I know justifies the leaders behavior***
Grid-
Sorry if I misunderstood your question. It is clearer in your second post what you are asking.
I still think I Timothy 3:1-7 addresses your question. These are the verses I would present to your friend.
Then ask your friend these questions:
Is this leader blameless?
Is he the husband of one wife?
Is he temperate, sober-minded, of good behavior, hospitable?
Can he teach? More importantly, how will he teach on marriage, adultery, sin, obedience, self-control, leadership, etc? How will he preform marriage convents, since he broke his?
Can people say he is not given to wine, not violent, not greedy for money,but gentle, not quarrelsome, not covetous?
You get my point. Sometimes the best way to help a person to process the information is by asking questions and listening to their responses.
Here is what one commentary says about these verses: http://www.biblegateway.com/resources/commentaries/index.php?action=getCommentaryText&cid=10&source=1&seq=i.61.3.1
Personally, common sense would tell me not to keep myself under this person’s leadership. BUT common sense does not mean common practice, especially if someone has sat under false teaching. I pray you will be able to wisely and patiently give counsel to your friend.
Again, please forgive my first post to your question, but perhaps it will help someone else with their questions on marriage and divorce.
Thanks Cheryl. No prob. on the mis-understanding THANK YOU again! Your efforts were definitely appreciated.
I will be frank….It IS Clarence M.
-Someone very close to me in ministry has “accepted” the teachings of this man. The overall focus (or lack of) dis-heartens me. I pray for them, and for me to see it is discouraging.
-We (as a group) actaully attended a “Oneness” church recently (unknowingly), and I saw a couple of strange things that tipped me off….and the fact he kept talking about water baptism, water baptism, water baptism gave it away as well. They all became apparent once I pried through the doctrinal statement.
-I was asked if I “liked” the church. I said “No”. I explained why, and broke the doctrinal statement down. They were slightly discoruaged, but yet I felt as if I had no choice. Truth validates itself.
-The following week they ventured to McClendon’s church. They know how I feel about him.
-McClendon (though the divorce and all was back in 2000) has me cautious because he participates in the TBN telethons and such.
-He still preaches a money centered gospel. On one occasion some months ago someone told me they prayed at his church and whoever was praying was callling upon “the spirit of Elijah”.
-By all of this, there is no basis for the Word in which they go to his church (except that God forgives and the music is good…I can tell music is the kicker for the emotional experience, I dont think they can see it) and it discourages me but yet I realize that my influence can win them and open their eyes by my mere conduct alone in Christ.
-I am not as quick to point out the direction of the error as they already have been repeatedly warned.
-For those who do not know the story of Clarence M runs like this (it is was public soap opera):
*Married at 18
*3 children
*Divorced his wife of 16 years (*Well she technichally divorced him)
*Charisma Mag had interviewed both he and his ex-wife about the matter:
McClendon says he and his wife got married for “All the wrong reasons”.
*McClendon also says that:” My calling is to preach and not be married”
*Is re-married FIVE days after his divorce is final.
*His denomination (Four-Square) asked him to step down for 6mos due to the matter and undergo a review by the Ethics committee and they would deem after that period if he was to fit to go back and lead.
*McClendon instead pulled his congregation from the denom (who owned the building he had, they own ALL the bldgs in the denom) and proceeded to hold services all over the place while charging FourSquare with “systematic and institutionalist racism”. YES. THE RACE CARD.
*A cover for the fact he deliberately sinned, and it is public…and he has brought discipline on himself through his denomination.
*He picks up and leaves, and is now in Gardena (not far from South Cent Los Angeles).
Charisma interviews his wife and she says:
*Clarence had been wanting a divorcve for the prior 5 years.
*Clarence asked her to divorce him as to not make it look bad on his ministry.
*Clarence never (before the divorce) charged or spoke of FourSquare with any form or racism and they talked about everything.
Now, I guess I know that it isnt wise for them to sit with him…they know I have barked about that. BUT….I wonder, though God forgives all manner of sin…..since this act was so public and deliberate I wonder if it is possible that in this sitaution he (McClendon) is IN SIN.
Meaning living in it, married and all.
**He also uttered this statement which means absolutely nothing, I think he is trying to SOUND educated but really shows the ignorance of men such as this:
“Denominationalism induces fellowship between people who are alike and can come to the point where there is intercourse between themselves, and that produces birth defects.”
http://www.charismamag.com/display.php?id=469
http://www.charismamag.com/display.php?id=6614
“Or take Clarence McClendon of Los Angeles. When he divorced his wife of 16 years and then remarried someone else within a week, his actions affected many other pastors and hurt many church members.
At one time McClendon was one of the up-and-coming leaders in the Pentecostal arena. Now his national influence is a fraction of what it was. And because of the visibility of his divorce, believers are scrutinizing other up-and-coming leaders and wondering, Will they be the next to fall?”
This article is about his ex-wife picking up the pieces after the damage was done.
http://www.charismamag.com/display.php?id=636