Nah………..but thanks for the invite!!

Please respond upon completion.

In my hibernation, I’ve been thriving at CARM and I noticed that you were apparently a member (correct me if I’m wrong). If so, would you mind dropping by sometime SOON and giving a bit of backup concerning Mr.Bible123?

He’s there and has been debating the point of sex outside of marriage AS permissible in God’s Eyes for some time….with Scripture and everything else between. I and others have been debating against his points heavily, and I was wondering if you wouldn’t mind giving some insight on the issue (if you’re wondering how to find him, go to http://www.carm.org …and then proceed to CARM.ORG - Christian Discussion Forums…..and from there go to the Section labeled “Life Issues”. Under that section you’ll see a heading entitled “Christian Life”, and from there go to the thread called “Sex outside or marriage is not a sin!”…..) If others, like Mel wish to come, they can as well.

Would you be up for the task? Whatever you decide, cool…..and glad to hear the welcome from you, Brah…..

Boy………..I hope it’s GOOOOOOOOOOD brother, considering the wrath you’re storing up.

Nice catch, and WELCOME BACK G-Dub!!

WOW…..I drop in for a momentary pause from my Sabbatical, and Look at what I find.

I pray that someone besides me caught this statement and plans to adress it SOON……cause the ramifications of it are pretty….far-reaching.

What if I told you that sex outside or marriage is not a sin but was made to be believed to be a sin by former Saints (Such as Saint Augustine).

Take for example the word Fornication. When we look up fornication in Strong’s Bible definitions or Vine’s Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words we see that the orginal Greek and Hebrew meaning never said “sex outside of or before marriage”. Some modern dictionaries may translate the word differently but remember depending on what dictionary you will find many different definitions for the word. That is why it is always best to look up the orginal Greek and Hebrew meaning for the word.

Also when we look up all the verses that talk about Fornication (or Sexual immorality as some versions will say) we see 13 or so verses that mention sexual immorality mention it as something you should not do.

The other seven verses show us what sexual immorality really means.
Numbers 25:1-5 Numbers 25:1-5 1 Corinthians 5:1 1 Corinthians 6 1 Corinthians 10 Jude 1:7 Revelation 2:14
Here’s a big hint:[b] It has to do with sexual worship of foreign god’s (with the exception of 1 Corinthians 5:1 and Jude 1:7. This is sexual immorality because it goes against the “sex laws” in Leviticus 18)

Some may say, what about Matthew 5: 27,28

That is referring to strong desire for another man’s wife, to covet. The bible warns us against this (Exodus 20:17). Jesus has a higher standard that is to lust for another mans wife is as bad as committing adultery with her. Also, look up the word lust in Vine’s Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words.
Just has having anger for someone can lead you to murdering them (Matthew 5:21-26) lust for another mans wife can lead you to adultery with her.

What about the Old Testament:
The Old Testament is full of some 600+ laws that the Israelites were supposed to live by.
In Leviticus 18, we find the sex laws; if sex before marriage was a sin we should find it here. After relieving all laws I’m yet to see one that says sex before marriage is a sin.

And as you read throughout the Old Testament there are several stories of people having sex with someone they are not married to and many times they are even considered blessed because of it. In Genesis 38: 13-30 we read the story of Tamar who dresses up as a prostitute in order to seduce her father in law to have sex with her so she can have a child. She is considered blessed because of this. In Joshua 2 we read about Rahab the prostitute who in the New Testament is considered one of the “Who’s Who of faith” (Hebrews 11:31).

How can someone who is living in sin by having sex with people she is not married to be considered one of the top faithful people? Unless sex is not a sin… And in Judges 16:1-3 we read about Samson, he’s also considered a man of faith (Hebrew 11:31), who is obviously having sex with women he is not married too. Sure he did have a weakness for one beautiful woman who did lead to his demise, Delilah, but the funny thing is even after he would have sex with these women, he was not married to; he would never lose his God-given strength. He was told not to drink wine, cut his hair, and not to eat any unclean food, but never; not to have sex (Judges 13).

My conclusion is that nowhere in the bible does it ever say sex outside of marriage is a sin (unless of course it is part of a worship act to another God, Fornication).
If you can show me otherwise feel free.
Note- Please don’t tell me your opinions or philosophies on the topic. If you can not back up what you say with bible verses and research behind it please don’t post. thanks

True…..those who minister are charged to “PREACH THE WORD (II Timothy 4:2)…..and marriage was meant to reflect our relationship with him

Seeing that sex is just as much a part of marriage as anything else (from foreplay to orgasm, Song of Solomon 1-8 anyone?), I guess it wouldn’t be that much of a stretch to say that presenting the Bible somethin’ that jumpstarts us, just like having intercourse orgasm with one’s spouse is …..After all, the good book what’s begins all understanding of our marriage with Him develops:

Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.

So, if preachers aren’t bringing good meat from the Bible, then they really are doing what Eddie was talking about….They’re not brining God’s seed that folks need for making stuff…..

Still, mabye it’s possible Eddie could’ve said some things a bit different……

(MN: There followed, a series of comments by Anonymous. This same Anonymous. They all dealt with me, my wife, accusations of me being jealous of John Jenkins, etc. Most of them sounded suspiciously like Mr. Pente-Hostile (Thanks GaryV, master of monikers) pretending to be some one else (though I don’t know this for certian). But even if they weren’t, the content and his terperment are not something I wish to engage. And most of it was pretty much off topic.I hope you understand. )

Eph 5:31-32 (NIV) “For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife and the two will become one flesh.” This is a profound mystery–but I am talking about Christ and the church.

God uses a strong human urge, sex, to describe His relationship with us. Israel is “the Wife” of Jehovah. We, the church, are called “the Bride” of Christ. Most Christians understand that Scripture uses sexual desire to represent the longing and excitement God feels for us, and we should feel for Him, as well as to describe how we “whore” after false religions, worldly “wisdom”, and the idols of this world……

James 4:4-5 (Phi) You are like unfaithful wives… never realizing that to be the world’s lover means becoming the enemy of God! Anyone who deliberately chooses to be the world’s friend is thereby making himself God’s enemy. Or do you think what the Scriptures have to say about this is a mere formality?

God Do we recognize how intense the desire is within us to chase after the latest religious fad, to believe comforting lies, to embrace the world? Scripture uses sexual imagery to show how strong our passions are for things like chasing after the latest religious fad, believing comforting lies, and embracing the world. And it uses sexual imagery to show how God is a jealous God; we are His; and He takes a dim view of our “arousal” to fellowship with lies, sophistries, and the world.

Ezekiel 16:30 (NIV) “How weak-willed you are, declares the Sovereign Lord, when you do all these things, acting like a brazen prostitute!”

When adultery and prostitution are applied to Israel, Babylon, etc., clearly it is the symbolic / spiritual sense. But because the images are so shocking and descriptive, it may take some effort not to miss the point by getting caught up in the “lurid” aspect of these texts (as seems to be the case with the Sperm analogy and people refusing to let God impregnate them with His Word).

Jeremiah 2:20 (NIV) “Long ago you broke off your yoke and tore off your bonds; you said, ‘I will not serve you!’ Indeed, on every high hill and under every spreading tree you lay down as a prostitute.”

Ezekiel 23:17-20 “Then the Babylonians came to her, to the bed of love, and in their lust they defiled her. After she had been defiled by them, she turned away from them in disgust. When she carried on her prostitution openly and exposed her nakedness, I turned away from her in disgust, just as I had turned away from her sister. Yet she became more and more promiscuous as she recalled the days of her youth, when she was a prostitute in Egypt. There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses.”

Here’s some verses/food for thought:

Jeremiah 3:1-10

Jeremiah 5:1-6

Jeremiah 5:7-13

Jeremiah 7:8-11

Jeremiah 9:2-3…

Jeremiah 13:22-27

Ezekiel 23

Ezekiel

Hosea 1:2

Hosea 3:1-3

Hosea 7:11-13

Hosea 4:10-12

Hosea 7:4,

Hosea 6-7

Hosea 2:2-3,

Hosea 5-7

Hosea 2:8-10

Hosea 13

Hosea 2:14-17

Hosea 19-20

Hosea 23

If Scripture uses the strongest, most graphic language to warn us not to “play the harlot” or to illustrate the dynamics of our relationship with Him, then why was it considered offensive for Eddie to do as He did?

Thoughts?

(MN: Yes. Seven more hours. )

Why is everyone knocking the Bishop for using the analogy of sperm to illustrate a Spiritual Truth: The Word is what impreganates us to give birth to the fruit of the Spirit.

The Bible alot’s more extreme than Eddie was in describing people……People need to stop acting Crazy on this one…..He didn’t do anything wrong, and ya’ll seemed way out of wack on this one…..

Of course he said this with a smile because he thought this was great. This mentality is especially prevalent in the south, where there is little to no attempt to teach sound doctrine in the church. This Pat person really has no idea that behind closed doors these pastors they defend consider their members too ignorant and backwards to know the difference between God’s words and some mans ideas. Nor do they believe these people know the difference between the church of Jesus Christ and the Christian Clubs/Malls they are visiting weekly. Too bad so sad.

(MN: Let me guess: You put your Holy Ghost on the shelf first, right?)

This is an insteresting illustration. this man will “bang” for Eddie Long. Now, who is gettin pimped? The man didn’t even send the word for a “strong-arm”, but you said….

“I iz already trained….Izza do it massa!”

First of all, I am a member of New Birth. For all of you who were once members or who have visited at one time or another, you’re a bunch of haters who don’t have a life. Bishop Eddie Long is a great (spiritual) father to many, many people. Your small little minds just can’t handle GREATNESS. I wish one of you mo-fos would say anything negative in my presence about him because I’m from that rare Indian tribe called, “I’ll Cutta-Ho”!!!!!

(MN: And you have done an excellent job of representin’ the pimp. Care to tell me what a mo-fo is? Ah yes. Nothing like being conformed to the image of Christ. )

If you think the sperm act was crazy you should’ve caught Fast Eddie on TBN’s fundraiser yesterday(09-02-2006).

1.)Eddie constantly referred to himself as “I AM” and/or “I AM he”.

2.)Mocked the role of ANYBODY taking the form of a “Suffering Servant.

3.)Stated that since you were made in the image of GOD, you need to dress like it. So that when people see you they will say, “LOOK AT THE GLORY OF GOD!!”.

It got so disturbing I actually stopped watching though it was very entertaining. He constantly “Preached” when Jan Crouch kept asking him to read some Scripture.

The saddest part……. all of the elderly crying and claiming their riches while writing their checks.

Shalom Alechem…