You’re going to have to help me with this one.
Some of you have written, swearing I am a demon for daring to say anything about Eddie Long (aka Fast Eddie). You swear up and down that he is an anointed teacher, a stand up kind of guy, yada, yada, yada.
Well, I’m minding my own business, not even surfing the internet, when this e-mail shows up in my mail box. It’s an ad from Fast Eddie, the CEO of Club Newbirth. He’s having yet another conference. This time it’s the “Spirit and Truth” conference. And I’m thinking “Yeah, Fast Eddie and the truth. That’s a little like a prostitute and virtue. But I don’t want to compare a prostitute to Fast Eddie. It’s way too insulting to the prostitute. Click here to see a larger version of the above picture.
Think about it. Prostitutes say up front “I don’t love you. I’m only letting you screw me for the money.” It’s an awful, degrading and dehumanizing thing to do, but they are up front about it. While I may feel sorry for them and the life most of them have been trapped in, I can at least respect their honesty.
On the other hand, Fast Eddie says “I stand for the truth (thus the name of the conference). And I love the congregants. And I would as soon die as do something God would not want me to do.” Then he prostitutes the church by bringing in such heresy luminaries as Creflo Dollar, I. V. Hilliard, and the ever liberal Robert (I wish I was Norman Vincent Peale) Schuller. (Judges 2:17; 2 Chr 21:11; Jer 2:20, etc., etc.)
Fast Eddie not only prostitutes himself, the church facilities, and the congregations by inviting these clowns to speak at the church; he does great damage to the congregants by vouching for the things these mega-pimps preach. You know he’s going to take up a collection and you know Hilliard and Dollar are going to promise a hundred fold anointed breakthrough to the single moms desperate enough to show up. The women will wave their hands, jump up and down and say whatever the pimps tell them to say. Then they’ll give their money, and try to scrape up the cash to pay for the baby sitter they had to hire in order to attend the conference. And that’s if they can make it home with the hoopty they drive. In contrast, Creflo will take a limousine back to his multi-million dollar mansion and get ready for the next money making trip. A trip he will probably make in his business jet worth tens of millions of dollars.
Hmm. I guess as I think about it, the comparison to a prostitute might not be that accurate. After all, the customer pays the prostitute to let him screw her. But Fast Eddie and his bunch insist you pay them to let them screw you. And that is exactly what Israel did with the Baals, and the other false religions around them. I almost feel sorry for the people stuck in these churches; almost as sorry as I feel for the prostitutes out there plying their wares.
By the way, Tony Evans is going to be speaking there too.
Tony Evans, a guy who I happen to like a lot, must have some type of hidden agenda by hanging with these (for better terms :-)) hucksters. For the life of it I just don’t know what it is. I know it’s not for me or any of us to figure out but man…. Tony, what’s up!!!
I see Pastor Long’s face is tattooed all over the website. I mean he couldn’t reserve a tiny corner on the page to at least show the faces of some or the entire invited guest? What’s up with that?
Oh by the way, if any of you are thinking about going to this, ummm “Spirit and Truth Conference” you better hurry and register. The fee before June 1st is $50.00, after that it’s $75.00 so get your early registration in while you can.
C’mon NCW. Say after me…slowly…PIMPS. See? That didn’t hurt, now did it? With a little more counseling you may be able not only to say it while referring to one of the pimps, but you may actually be able to type the word in one of your comments.
Once we get you past that you will be ready to enroll in the “Speak Your Mind in the Holy Ghost” conference I’m organizing. For more information write to the usual address and I’ll send you the free information packet. Shipping and handling, which of course you have to pay, is only $15.00.
I’ll try, it won’t be easy.
P…PPP….PPPPPPPimps!!! Okay I got it out. I’ll retire the word “Hucksters” for now. Since I’ve gotten pass that I’m ready to enroll in your conference. However instead of the $15 postage/handling fee, can I send you a self address stamp envelope to cut down my cost?
Mr. Jones,
Who abused you when you were young?
(MN: A kid by the name of Punchy Fennerman. He used to take my milk money and my lunch, beat me up, and stuff me in my locker every day. It wasn’t until he was hit by a bus (a result of touching God’s anointed and doing his prophet harm), that I got a respite.
Who abused you when YOU were a child? )
The sadder thing still is that our brave “Anonymous” is still being abused as an ADULT, and he/she LOVES it.
Jer 5:31 The prophets prophesy falsely, and the priests bear rule by their means; and my people love [to have it] so: and what will ye do in the end thereof?
PS Anonymous………..that’s from the Bible. If you were familiar with it, you wouldn’t be pimp fodder.
FEES!
Reminds me of my wife who’s entwined in this nonsense. She’s doled out hundrends and thousands to them. Even paid 600 dollars a year for ‘Bible School’ (ie, over-glorified sunday school where they don’t learn jack other than to repeat the nonsense they’re taught).
Since she followed their advice to divorce me (ironic since they state they don’t believe in divorce at her church {all the while parading divorced and single moms about}) she’s wallowed in more debt and troubles (they say it’s persecution) and has creditors calling her. I’ve tried for years to point out that her driving a hoopty and being poor with our children going increasingly without more and more isn’t right. Aall the while her pastor lives in luxury and buys a new jet plane. Yet, all my comments are attacks and seemed to drive her more fully to their arms. That she wasn’t doing enough to show her faith and that I was ‘causing strife’ with my objections. Stife = of the devil you know and since we’re called to live in peace and abundant health/ wealth, it must be my fault.
Faulty logic following faulty logic. And when ever I pointed out statements in the bible that contradicted what her pastor was pushing, she sat there dumbly and stumped. While I’m charming enough at times to convince her, I certainly am not a 24/7 pimp and my efforts were seen as an attack on her faith.
*sigh*
Anyway, anyone who can, pray for her. She needs it far more than she needs her ears being tickled.
Currently, they’re telling her to stop praying for others (it’s a waste of your time), stop praying in English (it’s not ‘perfect’) and to pray more (all the time) in Tongues…as that’s a very important gift to the spiritual person…and keep sowing.
I’d just like to know when will she actually harvest. I’m not talking about finding a $10 in the dryer and claiming it’s from God, but to actually see some return that she wouldn’t normally get regardless as to her circumstances.
As much as it may bother you, I do believe you have to simply leave her alone, talk when she wants to, and make sure you can present to her, from the Bible why you say the things you say.
After the first of second time, if you initiate the discussion, you become the focus and not the bad doctrine. You become the issue and not the pimp pumping money out of her. In essence, the more you argue, the more you get in the way of God working on her because she always has you as a distraction.
Believe me. I know. I made the same mistake with my wife - who was at least obedient enough to God not to divorce me.
And yes, you people out there are right. She is a true saint to be able to put up with me.
Hi, i am the married mother of 5 children. i thank God 4 my husband (dee, i love you man). He has brought so much into my life, and also has shown me much truth from God’s Word. Things i once believed and accepted-i no longer hold to. i feel very sorry for the many others who are bound by false religion and deceived by these pulpit pimps. Dee calls the people hoodwinked and bamboozled! But since there’s nothing new under the sun, most of the people actually like to be pimped because they’re the ones who are heaping to themselves these “teachers” having itchy ears. Furthermore, Israel wanted a king and the “church” not satisfied with Jesus alone wants thier own pope-so, alas, they have these charlatans in their fancy “priests” attire who satisfy their desires for gods they can actually see.
Your husband sounds like a real keeper! Congratulations!
Wow, stop praying for others?! How far are they going to take this?? The worst thing about it, is that they encourage these people not to follow bible and dig in their word, but to stand on their feelings and emotions to move them into “Gods will”.
Have mercy Jesus.
Czarina, these “hucksters” (sorry Melvin) are going to take this as far as the poor sheep allow them to. I once asked someone I know who attends one of these WOF churches to pray for me. They told me (in a bold response) that that’s something I need to do for myself.
It’s sad. When the poor sheep wake up on Sunday morning they must leave their brains asleep. I pray that every saints think deeper and honestly search the scripture for themselves.
NCW, I am very curious to find out why this person said very boldly that you have to pray for yourself. Throughout the books that Paul wrote, he request prayer from followers and stated that people should pray for other people:
1 Thessalonians 5:25, “Brethren, pray for us. ”
2 Thessalonians 1:11 “Therefore we also pray always for you…”
James 5:16 “Confess your trespasses to one another, and pray for one another.”
In the Old Testament, even a King asked a servant of God to pray for him 1 Kings 13:6 “Then the king answered and said to the man of God, ‘Please entreat the favor of the LORD your God, and pray for me…’”
Very interesting.
But, nevertheless, I do not care for Eddie Long anyway. In fact, I call him “Bishop Wrong.” I remember a few years ago, I saw him on TV performing an Exorcism (I think it was the Trinity channel). I girl came up to the front of the church, foaming at the mouth, eyes rolled back into her head; she did look demon possessed. So, I was shocked to see that he touched this girl and even placed his hands on top of her head; she supposedly had an unclean and evil spirit inside of her.
To my knowledge of the bible, I have never read that Jesus or his followers cast out demons by touching the demon-possessed person. From reading the scriptures, I thought that demons were cast out and fled the body by the Sound of Jesus’ voice and at his command, as well as by the mentioning of His name. I would like clarity on this.
JLC, the person who told me that was someone from a WOF church who was scriptually illiterate.
More mis-interpretation of scripture.
My Brothers,
Do not be alarmed about the Tony Evans things this is not the first time these guys have had a meeting of the minds (right) and put Tony’s name on the list and he never showed. It seems to be a scheme to draw in true evangelicals.
Melvin
Keep it up.
Peace
I’d love for you are saying to be true. I guess I’ll have to keep my eyes open and follow up to see if he actually appears.
I really hope he doesn’t.
Melvin
You are really hating on Bishop: Eddie L. Long. I really don’t get your gripe with him.
Greetings, Brothers in Christ. I just found this blog recently, and it brings great joy to my heart to see you contending for the faith once for all delivered to the saints. I have been following these hucksters since my early days of becoming a Christian when Hank Hannegraaf exposed Copeland, Price, and Hinn, among others with “Christianity in Crisis.” I have not been following it recently, but it seems WOF “theology” is alive and well.
I love the name “pimp” you have been using, very appropriate and accurately descriptive. I also listened to one of Pastor John’s programs yesterday and was refreshed to hear him speak out against Dollar and Pryce. Amen.
To the anonymous poster, your situation seems to be living proof that, while some will not go as far to describe these leaders as cult leaders, they certainly exhibit cultic tendencies in certain areas. I’m sorry to hear about your divorce, may God reach her for His glory.
She called a week ago asking for something out of the house. Odd, since I informed her that with her attitude and allegations, she needed to use the lawyers as a medium for communications.
Anyway, she stopped by for a bit to pick up the youngest son whom I have current custody of and informed me what she needed. Her Jesse Duplantis books and tapes.
I’ve (in the past when I didn’t know any better or paid attention) driven her to see him and Hinn and simply hung my head as they droned on. But, I never got anything out of it. Today I informed her I couldn’t pass the items on to her in good conscienceness for her to hand another as Duplantis is a false prophet and that WofF is dispicable.
I’ve read Christianity in Crisis. Mostly after reading her journals where her pastor informed her “Don’t read Hank Hanigraph(sp)” with out informing her as to why.
As to the stop praying for others. I never understand that. Even the Christ said to pray for your enemies and such. My wife has read the bible several times over but, has comprehension issues.
All it took was someone with a nice voice tossing out random bible verses and re-interpreting them to suit their own needs in a selective manner. One good one is stating that Paul never was ill. They’ll pull out the concordance and reinterpret most verses to suit their agenda. Any verse that they can’t do…they ignore. I’ve had discussions with the wife where she’ll parrot what was said and I’ll pull out the bible and point out contradictions to their beliefs.
One was about not ever saying IF. As IF = doubt. “Don’t pray IF it be God’s will because it IS!” is a common one. However in James, James admonished a follower for being boastful about going to a city and stating that they will do something. He then says to pray IF it be God’s will, they will do so. A contradiction.
I read once that a substantial portion of Christianity simply doesn’t read the bible AT ALL. Even my mother said recently ‘The bible says God helps those who help themselves.’ How do you find the energy or time or temperment to correct them or not say ‘Yeah, it’s next to cleanliness is next to Godliness.’
The wife’s ready response to correction is ‘Even the devil can quote scripture.’
And, being the ready scape goat for all her problems she’ll believe that I’m the ‘devil’ instead of the one who’s asking for seed and love offerings and giving the parable of Nordstroms on how a Pastor is supposed to be treated by his flock.
*sigh*
All I can do now is try to save who I can from this. And that’s the youngest son as the 3 oldest have been brainwashed with this too.
If debating theology with an adult is hard, try doing so with a 15 year old ‘know it all’.
The most telling issue is they are always saying “Pastor said.” rather than, “the bible says.” Same with “Church comes first over everything else” rather than, “God comes first over anything else.”
Subtle juxtapositions and substitutions that most hardly even notice.
Anyway, All prayers appreciated.
In His name.
Thorn,
Christianity in Crisis is a book that changed me forever. I read it in 1996, at the hight of what was the “Pensecola Outpouring” in my old denomination, the Assemblies of God. A critic can call Mr. Haanegraf acerbic, and a little arrogant for my taste, but no one can refute the dilligent research that shows actual quotes from the pimps. That’s the angle I suggest you take. Since the mid 1990’s, many ministries have popped up (like this one) that use public domain records and quotations from Hinn, Long etc.
http://www.forgottenword.org
among many other sites, show the quotes. People can argue about other people’s motives, but what they can’t refute is the facts, like when Benny Hinn said there are “nine in the Trinity.” Melissa, if you’re out there, you always have a lot of other websites. But anyway, my advice is to start by contrasting actual quotes by these “hucksters” (ha ha) with the Word of God.
Hey Rev,
I’m still out here. Just observing mostly. But there are a few websites that I’ll bring up again. One is http://www.apostasywatch.com. Another is http://www.sliceoflaodicea.com and also http://www.deceptioninthechurch.com. They have links that lead to other sites. Oh, and I like http://www.oldtruth.com.
Thorn,
I want to encourage you and let you know that you and your family are in my prayers. Marriages have been on my heart lately and I know it is not coincidence that you have posted what you did at this time. Know that your example, not only your words, is a strong witness of Christ. Let your lifestyle show your wife and especially your children the truth of Jesus Christ. Pray, as I will, that the Lord will give you an opportunity to plant seeds of truth that will refute the heresy and lies that they are being taught. Also pray that God will give them hearts to receive His truth. Remember that we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places (Eph. 6:12). Remember to to ask the Lord to set a watch before your mouth and keep the door of your lips (psalm 141:3) when speaking with her or about her to those around you. Be humble, and take the attacks and do not respond in kind. Be gentle and long-suffering.
I pray that the Lord will give you a heart of forgiveness and peace, and that you will cast your cares upon Him, for He cares for you (1Peter 5:7). Remember also that the Lord did not promise that all will follow Him. Read Matthew 10, especially verse 34, where it says that the Lord came to bring a sword, even amongst a man’s household. Stand fast on the Word of God, submit to His will, and trust that He will work everything out to His satisfaction. You just be the Christian that He has called all of us to be.
In the love of Christ,
Melissa
Rev! Good to hear from you again. I thought you had dropped off the edge of the Earth.
No, I am dealing with a newborn, and my kids are 10 years apart, so its like starting all over again. Also, I preached at my Uncle’s W o F church and was taped to be broadcast on a local tbn wanna be channel here in So. Indiana. I preached a sermon called “God’s Greatest Miracle.” From creation, to parting the Red Sea, I “axed” them what did they think was the biggest thing God had ever done. Then I went to Luke 17, and talked about the 10 lepers, and how only one of them realized it was better to have the “Presence, not the Presents.” I closed with Psalm 8:4, What is man that You are mindful of him?, and pointed out that too many churches put all the focus on miracles, and don’t realize the greatest miracle is the salvation of our souls…A lukewarm response….But I also said to the Tv audience to not trust everything on TV….so I casnnot wait for this to be seen on tv!!!! ( I will have DVD’s availible!!!) (for free)
(MN: This is probably the last time Lightly will be allowed to make such a ponderous - and preposterous- comment. Virtually no meat content. But I figured the readers will learn something as they read through his thoroughly subjective statement. Bottom line: The Bible means whatever Lightly’s revalation knowledge says it means.)
To Bro. Jones; Just Curious, Alert, Sober& Viligant, Minister F and Sincere. Since my return from Memphis I found all of your reponses waiting for me (thanks, I truly love discussing the Word of God, never arguing, but great dialogue) but your comments have a block on them and I can’t respond to your thoughts as I would like. Wow, therefore I will have to best address everyone’s thoughts collectively here. (ps. Bro Melvin, these will be my closing remarks, if you will…: )
Minister F - I fall under the category of being transformed, and the more Word I receive, the more Christ is built up in me, and as DeWayne decreases, those who cross my path begin to see more and more of the Crucified Christ in me and less and less OF me. Yet…even the transformed……..fall down.
Sober and Viligant - I’m full of a lot of things, however Heresy is not one of them. However I did attempt to show the difference between Brethren and sinner, and I did ask for your definition of sinner and how James could use them interchangebly. My point was that I dont believe he did, but you would rather say I’m full of heresy and my thoughts are tainted by false Calvin doctrine, than share scripture to make your point, or even give me your definition of sinner. Ok, I can agree to disagree. But here’s a thought Sincere sent me earlier….
Comment by Sincere
2006-05-24 13:40:47
Since when have “Beloved” and “My children” been written to sinners?
and acutally I fully agree, they haven’t. And I believe we can also include Brethren in there. Therefore those words Beloved, my children, and Brethren have never been written to sinners, but to the saints, nor did James call the Brethern, sinners in James 5: 19 - 20
Alert: Thanks for all the links, I will review them as time permits, however I know that God is not a liar, and as for me having a different understanding of the Word or interpreting it differently than you, well it’s a stretch to say I’m making my Heavenly Father a liar. It simply means that I dont agree with you Alert, and that one of US is walking in error, and not in the truth. Now my journey is not yet complete, but one day I will know in full, and so will you. (and please note that I didn’t say YOU were walking in error or anything that can be considered not edifying.)
Just Curious:- I am an Evangelist and Pastor. Called, anonited and appointed by my Heavenly Father for the time. I have what is called a two fold calling. I serve my Father in the Christian Methodist Episcopal Church, though I’m invited to share with various denominations. I received the baptism of the Holy Ghost at a small, all white Pentecostal church in a small town in Ky., in the early 80’s. Most of my Methodist bretheren do not speak in tongues or lay hands, etc. I choose to follow the examples of the Messiah. My way of thinking has not been molded by Methodist or any other church, or theologian, but by my personal, intimate walk with my Lord. All disciples can be found at the feet of the Master.
Sincere:- Thank you for your humility as well, and I too only offer the gospel. I apologize if I sounded like you had anything else to offer (I try never to offend). I do enjoy a good word with a pinch of revelation knowledge. Wow, and that my friend is truly fresh bread.
And Bro. Melvin;-you said…(Bottom line? Be a little more thoughtful or you will be banned from the Puppies are So Cute Posting.) Well, I tried in earnest to always respond thoughtfully, with scripture, restraining my opinion but sharing my interpretation, never calling names, but always trying to edify the saints, so I dont know whether to be honored or offended with the possibility of being banned. Well, I don’t get offended so let me close by saying Thank you. It was not my intent to hold your site hostage to a topic that did not fit the true purpose of your site. I was under the impression it was open to any discussion on the Word until the truth stood alone. Well, I don’t know Calvin, or even John and Charles Wesley the founders of Methodism, but I do know Jesus, and the more I draw to closer to Him and His Word, the more truth is revealed and received. It was a good journey men of God, and I look forward to another exchange, but I guess at another site, and at another time. Be Blessed, Rev. DeWayne Rap’ GoLightly
ps…Now you know, I couldn’t leave without leaving you just a touch of revelation knowledge, that many Calvinist, Baptist, Methodist, WOF and so many other faiths have misinterpreted. First, I give all praises to God for having blessed me to be in the right place at the right time to receive the revelation from another saint, from another church, (I wont mention the name. ) So, if you will permit me to complete our fellowship…turn to 1st Corinthians 14: 34 - 36. I would prefer a King James if you have one, if not ok…These verses have been misused, abused, and taught in error for years to keep women in their place and I’m sure everyone here already has their own opinion, and Calvin and all the other great theologians have spoken their thoughts, but remember this, God always gets the last word. Now…let me declare this…Paul did not write verses 34 - 35, (oh just humor me before you call me this heresy again my friend Alert), now, everyone, place your hand or a piece of paper over verse 36, especially if you have a King James, if you dont then you don’t have to. Now Read verses 34 - 35 and then say the first word in verse 36 out loud. (only if you have a King James) (Other’s, just read verse 36.) v. 36 WHAT? That was Paul’s response in verse 36 to the question he received from the early church in verses 34 and 35. WHAT? Now Paul answered their question in verse 36, and even if you don’t have the King James, you’ll get the point, BUT how many preachers, pastors, and even great theologians, HAVE preached the question and thought they were preaching or teaching the answer. That would be in error, wouldn’t it? Hmmm. Thank God for revelation knowledge. Oh, by the way, the Corinthinans are full of these types of discussions between Paul and the early church. I dont call people heretics or say they are commiting heresy if they teach or preach in error, I’m sure all of you didn’t have this revelation either, I like to just say we’re all growing. Be Blessed…Rev.
Thanks Bro. Melvin, I honestly didn’t think you would post it. Take care of yourself doc, I’ll be reading your post from time to time. I’ve truly enjoyed the exchange. Be Blessed…GoLightly
MJ, I know you may not permit the good Rev to reply, but I had to chime in!!
“What? Came the word out from you, or came it to you only?”
That is a continuous question, so I hate to say this GoLighty, but this time God made a semantical error when He gave you this “revelation.” Maybe He also messed up when He said “Christ is the head of the man, man is the head of the woman.” (”What?”) Maybe God forgot that His word says that a Pastor must be ” the husband of one WIFE.” (Y’all know how fickle that ‘ol God can be sometimes?)
1 John 4:1:
(KJV, especially for you) “Beloved, BELIEVE NOT EVERY SPIRIT, but try the spirits whether they are of God..”
How do we try them? By the WORD He has given us!! If you recieve a “revelation” that contridicts this word, unfortunately, it is NoT from the Lord…
I will if he can keep to thirty words or less.
Thanks Bro Melvin:
My friend rev_ak, let me share with you another passage. Please understand, the epistles are letters. As Paul received the letters from the Church at Corinth, he left the question in the letter as he replied to their concerns. In our text, we have those questions and the answers. Here’s another example:
1 Cor. 11: 20 -22
20When ye come together therefore into one place, this is not to eat the Lord’s supper.
21For in eating every one taketh before other his own supper: and one is hungry, and another is drunken.
(Pauls response)
22What? have ye not houses to eat and to drink in? or despise ye the church of God, and shame them that have not? what shall I say to you? shall I praise you in this? I praise you not.
If you read 1 Cor. 14: 34 - 36, you to will see that it is written in the same style. The early Church would submit questions to Paul, and Paul would write the answer. We have, both the question and the answer. (sorry it’s more than 30 words, but thanks…Go) ps. There are other examples as well, but I want to respect Bro. Melvin’s page so you can call me if you would like to review further. my cell 270-836-4937 Thanks again Bro. Melvin.
This is simply not how you interpret scripture. Eisegesis was performed on these texts. You said some dude showed you this, and you fell for it. *sigh*
You see this is what happens when people accept anything.
Paul is the one who wrote this. This wasn’t some back and forth thing. Go to chapter 1. As in all of Paul’s letters, he writes, “Paul called by the will of God” or something to that effect. Then he writes, “To the church in [insert church here]. There is no indication in any of his letters that these were back and forth letters of questioning. Go to 16:5, here Paul talks about visiting them after passing through Macedonia. Paul was in Ephesus when he wrote this letter(16:8) almost 300 miles away.
I also don’t consider this any kind of special revelation because it has been considered before.
Now for the text itself. This is why you want the KJV, but that it is not the word-for-word rendering of the text. It actually reads, “Or was it from you that the word of God came? Or are you the only ones it has reached?”.
Paul is here being sarcastic, pulling his trump card because of his commands of the Lord. It’s written to people just like you who would question the Lord. This passage can also be interpreted in light of Paul’s letter to Timothy(2:11-14).
Rev GoLighty:
The book of James is addressed to Christians who were already saved. If you understood how the early church was formed, that would be obvious. Unlike today, those who were added to the church were already saved. (read Acts)
In James 5:19-20, James uses the term “brethren” to address Christians in the church. His dialogue gives a hypothetical situation. That situation shows the reality that they could sin.
In verse 19, the “brethren” is the same one who could “err”. That’s why the text reads “Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth”. The “brethren” is the one who could “err from the truth”.
Verse 20 refers to this same “brethren”. It’s talking about him being converted from his “error”. The text reads, ” he which converteth the sinner from the error…”. The term “sinner” is referring to the “brethen” of verse 19. Therefore, this “brethen” is also called a “sinner”.
Please don’t tell us you’re called to teach or preach if you can’t see this truth. It shouldn’t take revelation knowledge or seminary to recognize this.
Hey Thorn I can totally identify with you it’s hard having a loved one caught up in the mess.
My father has a bookcase full of books by Hinn, Copeland, Meyers and the usual suspects. Its very hard to get through to him. In the end I’m the one who ends up looking like the one who needs saving.
Just this moment I’ve been forced to go to my parents’ dilverance programs at their church. I was always of the opinion that demons could not inhabit a spirit filled believer but hey, the overseer of this ministry has been setting christians free from ‘divers bondages for years now’. So what do I know?
I’m trying to have as much respect and be as obedient as I can. But my patience if seriously begining to wear thin. I tried to tell my mum how important reading the bible was, she simply patted me on the shoulder and siad i didnt understand how much this church had saved us.
Any way its time for me to go to this freak show.
Lord give me strength
I’d take the “how can a theif rob a strong mans home unless he is 1st tied up” bible passage to state that a thief (demon) can’t enter the stong mans home (spirit filled) and cause trouble to mean that NO, a demon can’t reside in the same home as the holy spirit.
Most of the W o F churches I’ve been in locally leave me cringing. The 1st one had a visiting pastor literally patting himself on the back paising himself for his work and how his business and church worked together, made me think of IRS fraud. Another had the pastor going into conspiracy theories on the mark of the beast…stuff I’ve heard regurgitated for the past 30 years with details changing to suit current events. He at least had an open discussion night on biblical issues but he seemed to cherry pick what he believed in and preached to the small group down playing passages that contradicted his beliefs and twisting others to suit his desires.
*Sigh*
Sad thing is, they are very eloquent speakers and nice to listen to. I’ve had several people make the same claims about me and while the money involved in the W o F movement is sooo enticing, I can’t see myself keeping a straight face and not yelling out in the middle of a sermon “Look, I’m lying to you and twisting scripture to suit my own greedy desires, you have a better chance finding Jesus in the trunk of a car at a used car dealership than here.”
I also work in a media covering business so, I watch a LOT of news. It’s baffling that many Christians spew W o F nonsense quite liberally and never know it. I was covering a news segment on the Da Vinci Code where one movie goer stated that she ‘had the God kind of faith’, so wasn’t worried about the message the movie conveyed. Many times, I think it’s a lost cause.
At Rev_Ak I’ve tried to have Melvin contact you on my behalf. I too am in So. Ind and would love to hear from you.
wow talk about taking scripture out using it to suit yourself. At this meeting i was forced to go to the pastor talked on matt 7 vs 24.
You know the verse where Jesus talks about the wise man who bulit his house on the rock compared to the foolish man which bulit his house on sand. He then went on to say that our parents are our foundation and if they used to be involved in things not of God (idol worship, witchcraft and such, its a mainly west african congregation) then even though we are now saved we still need diliverence because of our bad foundation.
I really have limited understanding about this dileverence stuff. But it was crazy.
There were people throwing up and falling over everywhere.
A place that teaches EVERY bad thing that happens in a believers life is the result of demonic attacks has got to be as dangerous as these WOF churches.
This is the biggest ministry in Nigeria.
Tiannah,
Keep in the Word. You are to be commended for the respect you are showing your parents and will receive blessings for doing so. Keep studying as you have apparently been doing to understand that the practices of this church are hogwash. Perhaps one day, God will open the ears of your parents so that they hear the sound doctrine that you are promoting.
As for the “deliverence” services, is there anything unclear about “whom the Son sets free is free indeed?” That freedom is from sin, whether it be witchcraft, idolatry and such. West Africa, eh? Probably permiscuity (fornication), polygamy, etc. is a big problem, too?
Shame on the pastor of this church for using God to build up himself instead of building up believers in the faith and helping them to come out from the unclean thing based on their justification instead of his “special anointing.”
I am praying for you and your parents, brother or sister.
Typical “deliverance” ministry nonsense. It’s so much easier to blame a demon than it is to buffet the flesh and bring it into submission to the Word of God by the power of the Spirit of Truth.
I am unaware of any verse in the New Testament that instructs the saints how to deal with a believer who has a “demon”. There is much however about living a Spirit filled and controlled life. There is much about denying the flesh. There is much about carnality. But nothing about how to expel demons from your spirit, soul, or body.
If one is indeed saved by grace, they are indwelt by the Holy Spirit, their minds are to be renewed by the Word, and their bodies are to be offered as a living sacrifice.
The Holy Spirit has therefore claimed ownership of the totality of the redeemed man…………spirit,soul,and body.
I wasn’t aware that the Spirit sub-let his residence to demons.
A shame that neither Paul, nor Peter, nor James, nor John, nor anyone else was moved by the Holy Spirit to address the need for “deliverance” beyond that conferred by the Blood at Calvary, and the renewing power of the Word.
As I said…………it’s so much easier (and ultimately more PROFITABLE in many but not all cases) to blame a demon than to crucify the flesh.
Wow, Tiannah, seems we’ve had the same background. My mom is a pastor in that church (and Paul says, I permit a woman not to…) and I understand the emphasis on deliverance. Yeah, I’ve seen the contortions and writhing…ugh. I think all these people rushing to these deliverance sessions have never heard the term “dying to flesh”. I’ve been to these sessions and there are literally thousands of people there, but the churches, though big and all, can’t really account for “decisions”. I’ll be praying for you, Tiannah, because I have loved ones wrapped up in false doctrine as well. West Africa needs at least one solid ministry there - it’s all WoF and mish-mash.
Curtlove, how do you explain Tony Evans having Eddie Long as part of his conference in October?
There is nothing wrong with what he teaches, that’s why.
Antoine Mason: Your reply should have read, “There is nothing to what he teaches, that’s why.” What do you call a shleophard (shepherd-leopard) that tells a congregation of people JESUS died for to their faces: “If you don’t want to go along with the program, get the hell out of here!” Or likens the Word of God to “fresh sperm.” Or “preaches”: “males have vaginas.” Or “the wound in Adam’s side became the womb inside Eve.” Or that “men also have PMS—power, money, and sex.” Antoine, you’ve been bamboozled!
You just don’t understand him. That’s all. I understand the analogies he uses. You don’t. That’s all it is.
Antoine, you’ve been bamboozled!
Antoine L. Mason: 1 Samuel 2:3—”Boast no more so very proudly. Do not let arrogance come out of your mouth; for the Lord is a God of knowledge, and with Him ACTIONS are weighed.”
Jeremiah 17:9—”The heart is more deceitful than all else, and is DESPERATELY SICK; who can understand it? (10) I, the Lord, search the heart, I test the mind, even to give to each man according to his ways, according TO THE RESULTS of his deeds.”
Talk is cheap and Scripture further substantiates itself: Luke 6:45—”The GOOD man out of the good treasure of his heart brings forth what is good [the Word of God]; and the EVIL man out of the evil treasure brings forth what is evil; FOR HIS MOUTH SPEAKS FROM THAT WHICH FILLS HIS HEART.
“You just don’t understand him. That’s all. I understand the analogies he uses. You don’t. That’s all it is.” Fortunately, born-again believers—followers of the Lord Jesus Christ (not decaying flesh)—are not asked to understand man’s pitiful and perishing analogies, for the very three Scriptures cited above. Perhaps if you and your role model submit to the Holy Spirit and study diligently, you will find other applicable Bible truths.
Perhaps if you get under someone with the the Holy Ghost, and the revelation(s) of Christ Jesus you won’t be bitter and simply war against everyone you think is in error because of Melvin Jones and people like him. Since he wants to talk about all these preachers I am going to have do the same to him on yahoo.com on a group I’ll be making against him and his fools.
(MN: Remember - that’s http://WWW.PULPIT-PIMPS.ORG. Send as many people to the site as you can. All traffic is much appreciated. )
I wonder how the dialogue of your new site might be? Would I be able to follow it, unlike here?
Here is the site: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BishopEddieLong/
Anyone can post on there and voice your opinion. The major focus is Bishop Eddie L. Long. But anything related to him, his ministry and the like can be discussed.
This Antoine guy is a bitter cat. He must be getting paid as a designated “pimp-defender”. I wonder how much they are paying him.
(MN: Too much. )
Everybody, PLEASE go to this man’s site:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BishopEddieLong/. It’s Antoine’s. What’t the first thing you notice (after you go through all the trouble to register)?
I take offense to you calling Bishop Eddie L. Long a pimp. (MN: And I take offense at Fast Eddie calling himself a preacher. But more importantly, I suspect God takes offense at Fast Eddie calling himself a preacher. What’s your point? )
Do you call Apostle Paul a pimp?
2 Corinthians 11:8
I robbed other churches, taking wages [of them], to do you service.
Well then if you don’t call him a pimp and he refered to taking a wage from churches as robbery then why are you calling Bishop Eddie L. Long a pimp and he does not view it as robbery. Jesus Christ himself had one of his disciples carry money. Did you know that?
John 13:29
For some [of them] thought, because Judas had the bag, that Jesus had said unto him, Buy [those things] that we have need of against the feast; or, that he should give something to the poor.
Now who doesn’t study the word? Were did they get the money from? And if you say that it was because all of them had jobs show me scripture were they kept their jobs after following Jesus. And show where Jesus still was practicing carpentry because I heard that argument too.
Antoine’s exegesis……7 Chapters worth.
http://www.centerofbaptistworship.org/01index.html
No one said that the pastor shouldn’t LIVE by the Gospel. Just that he shouldn’t get rich off the backs of the sheep.
Mic 3:9 Hear this, I pray you, ye heads of the house of Jacob, and princes of the house of Israel, that abhor judgment, and pervert all equity.
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Mic 3:10 They build up Zion with blood, and Jerusalem with iniquity.
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Mic 3:11 The heads thereof judge for reward, and the priests thereof teach for hire, and the prophets thereof divine for money: yet will they lean upon the LORD, and say, [Is] not the LORD among us? none evil can come upon us.
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Mic 3:12 Therefore shall Zion for your sake be plowed [as] a field, and Jerusalem shall become heaps, and the mountain of the house as the high places of the forest.
1Ti 6:3 ¶ If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, [even] the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;
1Ti 6:4 He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings,
1Ti 6:5 Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, SUPPOSING THAT GAIN IS GODLINESS: from such WITHDRAW THYSELF.
1Ti 6:6 But godliness with contentment is great gain.
1Ti 6:7 For we brought nothing into [this] world, [and it is] certain we can carry nothing out.
1Ti 6:8 And having food and raiment LET US BE THEREWITH CONTENT.
1Ti 6:9 But THEY THAT WILL BE RICH fall into temptation and a snare, and [into] many foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men in destruction and perdition.
1Ti 6:10 For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.
1Ti 6:11 ¶ But thou, O man of God, flee these things
1Ti 3:3 Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;
1Ti 3:8 Likewise [must] the deacons [be] grave, not doubletongued, not given to much wine, not greedy of filthy lucre;
Tts 1:7 For a bishop must be blameless, as the steward of God; not selfwilled, not soon angry, not given to wine, no striker, not given to filthy lucre;
1Pe 5:2 Feed the flock of God which is among you, taking the oversight [thereof], not by constraint, but willingly; not for filthy lucre, but of a ready mind;
Jesus was supported in ministry by donations from believers.
Luke 8:1-3
1 And it came to pass afterward, that he went throughout every city and village, preaching and shewing the glad tidings of the kingdom of God: and the twelve were with him, 2 And certain women, which had been healed of evil spirits and infirmities, Mary called Magdalene, out of whom went seven devils, 3 And Joanna the wife of Chuza Herod’s steward, and Susanna, and many others, which ministered unto him of their substance.
Now……….tell me. Why did Jesus and the 12 not sleep in Inns, but outside?? Why did He have no home?? Why did He have to borrow a colt to ride upon?? Why did He give Mary over to John to care for if He lived as Fast Eddie does??
There’s nothing wrong, again, in living by the Gospel. What IS wrong is supposing (and teaching) that gain equates to Godliness. What IS wrong is SEEKING to be wealthy. The Scriptures I posted above make that clear.
The New Testament speaks a great deal about money……….nearly all of it in the form of warnings against the deceitfulness of riches.
Is THIS why you cling to Eddie like lint on a cheap suit?? Do you want his lifestyle??
HEY!!!!!!! Look where Righter landed!!!!! Right on the Ankh-lover’s site.
Finally a site that is on her intellectual level. I’m happy for her!!
BTW Antoine………….Christian crosses have been found engraved upon stone burial boxes from the FIRST CENTURY.
So much for the fantasy about the late corruption of the symbol. Oh well………facts never got in your way before LOL!!!!!!!!
*cough, cough”, Antoine… how do you explain or justify your Boy Eddie Long on Ludacris’ CD? the song is called ‘freedom of preach’. Remember Mr. Long is supposed an annointed man of God with, the word all in his mouth. Please provide feedback.
I already explained this. Not my fault that Melvin “Dry Bones” Jones didn’t post it.
The fact that this is NOT a self-supported site speaks volumes. Pretty soon compatriots will be bombarded with requests for $$$$$ to “get the message out and support Minister Mason’s valiant efforts on behalf of the mand-of-Gawd.” Note the cheesy, left-hand side-bar banners:
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I was raised in the church. I attended Sunday School, regular worship service and evening service.
Recently, I don’t even attend hardly anymore.
I’ve been a member of several megachurches. I use to attend sunday service and mid week service as well as paid my tithes and offering including giving a pastor’s love offering.
I stopped paying my tithes and offering when I learned that the pastor takes the tithes and offering on every first sunday (he calls it “first fruits”) but won’t disclose this “information” to the general body. Yet he teaches that we perish for lack of “knowledge”. He also tells our congregation not to worry about what he does with the money - God would deal with
him if he was doing anything wrong.
He also says that he doesn’t have the traditional deacon board because God gives vision to one man, him, and not a group of men. Well, unfortunately, pastor’s have to be held accountable on earth and I don’t see anyting wrong with deacons holding a pastor accountable financially. My friends are members of other denominations, e.g. methodist. They have regular meetings and they know how their hard earned money is being spent!!!
I became livid because some members were giving him a pastor’s love offering. If they paid their tithes and offering on a first sunday, he received their love offering and tithes and other offering (homeless ministry, etc…). He received double from members, when they only intended for him to receive the pastor’s love offering.
In my opinion this is misappropriation of funds because he won’t openly disclose his actions. Also, the pastor receives the proceeds for the sale of dvds, cds (his ministry’s name is on the dvds, cds - not the church). Yet the equipment and resources (employees, utilities, etc…) that belong to the church are used to create the pastor’s dvds and cds. Is the church being paid a fee for usage? Or are the fees for maintenance of the equipment, utilities being paid for by the
church and the church is not being reimbursed?
What if members want to donate more money to a ministry but don’t because they assume that ministry is thriving. If the pastor would disclose how much is collected and where it is allocated, maybe members would trust more and give more.
For the pastor’s birthday the one trustee member that the church as asked the church, on a wednesday night service, to donate $1 the church could by the pastor a really nice gift - the trustee didn’t advise what the gift was. That sunday the church presented the pastor with a black, 4-door LUXURY car. How did they raise $200, 000 in 4 nights? For the past 2-years in February the church had a debt cancellation service (the first sunday in february). Each sunday during the
month of january (4 sundays) the pastor preaches a financial series. His goal is to raise $1 million. the church has yet
to meet that goal. The church only raised $700k+ the first year (2005) and $300k+ the second year (2006); yet they were able to raise $200k for a vehicle in 4 nights? Go figure. When presenting the vehicle to the pastor that sunday, the same trustee told the congregation that the pastor told him about a month prior that he was thinking about purchasing a certain car and was going to put a down payment on the car and wanted his opinion. The trustee also told the congregation that he told the pastor not to put anymore money down because he was going to get the congregation to purchase the car.
How ironic - do you think that this was a coincidence? Also the members wrote their checks out to the pastor and he
received the birthday money, therefore, how did the “church” buy him and surprise him with the car the sunday of his birthday? From what I understand this particular LUXURY vehicle is usually purchased in pairs - his and hers. To add insult to injury, they also purchased a LUXURY 4×4 and another LUXURY european car the same month (not to mention a $million dollar home in the previous year)!
The church is in $12 million worth of debt.
It is disheartening. There is nothing paid off. The church can’t even afford repair the air conditioning or pave
additional parking lots or give decent scholarships to graduating seniors. There is -0- in the benevolent fund! Tithe paying members who fall on hard times are turned away. There is a second church being constructed with a plaza. I wonder who receive the financial benefits of the shops? Yet who made it possible for the shops in the plaza to exist? - the church. How can cities have megachurches and still have people living in poverty? How can pastors and their families profit financially and go on shopping sprees buying expensive material things ($1000 outfits, $500 sunglasses, summer homes, etc..) and members are losing their homes, cars, etc…
Society looks down on tier marketing such as amway, mary kay, avon, etc…but the church, askes other churches to become partners or members and pay a “fee” - although the pastor gains financially from the fees collected - the reason the other pastors are partnering is because of the church!
I have been stumbled by my current pastor as well as previous pastors. They will be held accountable for my being stumbled on judgement day.
ps - when conferences are held at the church, the offering goes to the pastor’s ministry not the church because the pastor sponsors the conference. yet, I doubt if the church is reimbursed for costs incurred (increased utilities, etc…).
also, the church spends thousands of dollars on billboards, some spotted 2 hours away from the city. Churches serve the community in which they are located. why would a pastor attempt to lure members away from their community church, by advertising 2 hours away in another city. How would pastors like it if this was done in their territory to them.
A word of compassion to “Stumbled”. I feel your pain but please do not use this experience to stop attending church. Jesus said the wheat and the tares will grow together and in the end God will separate. It is sad but true that we have so many churches like this that serve mammon but now that you see for yourself, move on to another ministry. By that I mean pray for directions and you may have to visit several churches. I have a similar story to yours and I won’t go inito much detail but I moved on when I discovered the truth. I know that Jesus is Lord and no matter what He is alive today, sitting on the right hand of The Father. I know man will fail us but God will not. I could not stop believing the bible because someone twisted and perverted it for their own lusts. I have the mentality that if every person I come into contact with fall, no matter who it is, I know God is still on the throne and I will not let man deter me. You gotta have that same mentality. Get all your study material(mainly the concordance) and dig deep for yourself. I think this site has good material and lots of Spirit filled brothers and sisters that is mature in the word. I think Melvin is pretty sound. John Coleman is basically on the mark and a few others. Be careful when going to different sites though, as you have to find out who these guys are and where they are affilliated. Also leave these Televangelists where they are, on TV because they are what they are, TV preachers, made for TV. If I just had to recommend any, I would recommend John Cherry or Charles Stanley(he never remarried). Note: I said if I HAD to recommend one because like I stated, most are “TV” preachers, made for TV.
If you have a bad experience anywhere else,(ie restaraunts, grocery stores), do you stop going to those places? I would think not, as those are places you HAVE to go, well the grocery store anyway. Find yourself a select group of believers(or a mentor) to associate yourself with to help with your earthly walk. I would say go back to mainline denominations and stay far away from the Word of Faith believers as I believe most of them have a distorted view of the gospel and very little doctorine(Not all, but a vast majority). I have been there, done that, bought the T shirt, washed it and it is hanging out to dry.
TO AL and STUMBLED: Al, your response is full of wisdom and compassion. I experienced the very same thing, and saw documentation from outside the flock, that this “ceo” was a vile respecter of persons. But I stayed because “it was a job.” finally God’s presence forced me to “run as in stark terror,” due to quiet wickedness found in the whole operation. But hunger for the Truth, “stumbled,” will be fulfilled by the Scriptures: “Those who hunger and thirst after righteousness, will be filled. Like Al said, don’t dispair, because nothing is new under the sun. And if you ask your Heavenly Father for a fish, He will not give you a snake; if you ask Him for bread, He will not give you a stone. Ask for guidance by the Holy Spirit, as this is one of His major functions. HALLELUJAH!
In the name of Jesus it will be done unto you! Beryle
Despair, Beryle, despair; haste makes waste!
I echo Al’s sentiments Stumbled…………I’ve been there, and I’m sorry you had to go through this. But only partially.
You see………….you SAW THROUGH IT, while the majority sit idly by with their cushioned posteriors anchored to their cushioned pews.
Why did you see through it, and not the others?? It’s nothing less than the Grace of God performing what He has promised……in the 10th chapter of John, Christ promises that His sheep would hear His voice………….and would reject the vo