A couple of readers have suggested that John Jenkins and others like him compromised on the truth in order to build their membership. His argument to himself probably went something like this:
- If I can grow a big church, then I can better influence the neighborhood and perhaps even the city
- But to grow a large church, I have to attract people
- Unfortunately, not many people are interested in doctrinally solid, meat-filled sermons. They want famous people, lots of music and lots of entertaining.
- In order to grow the church, I will focus mostly on the emotional and entertainment side of preaching and doing church
- Once the church has grown to a specific size, then I will go back to good doctrine, good preaching, and good teaching; training all of the people who are in the church
- But until then, I need to do things and bring in people who will attract the public. Those people might include T. Dexter Jakes or other people who can attract the public. It can include programs that make people feel good rather than feeling like a bunch of sinners.
- Once the church has grown, I’ll then take it in the direction I want it to go in.
That, I believe, is perhaps how most of the formerly orthodox preachers started off. But I figure most of them discovered the principal in the parable of Horse and the Wolf. You never heard that parable? Weeellll, pull up a chair and give a listen.
It seems there was this horse that lived in the forest. He was young, strong, and fast. He really enjoyed being a horse, running through the woods, across the open fields, feeling the wind in his mane.
But like everyone, he had a problem. The wolf would attack him when he least expected it. Fortunately, he was much larger than the wolf and the wolf was kind of stupid. It had never figured out the benefit of hunting in a pack.
The attacks were an irritant to the horse. He figured if he could get rid of the wolf, he could do whatever he wanted and really enjoy being a Horse. Then he got an idea.
He knew man knew how to get rid of wolves. He had actually seen man kill one. Some of the other horses warned him that he couldn’t trust man. But he was willing to do whatever he had to in order to get rid of the wolf. So he approached the man and said: “Man, I have a problem. The wolf keeps attacking me, keeping me from enjoying myself. I have seen you kill a wolf before. Would you please help me to kill this wolf?”
The man thought about it for a moment and nodded his head. “Certainly,” he said. “But I will need to put a saddle on your back so I don’t slide off, and a bit in your mouth so I can direct you while we kill the wolf.”
The horse thought about it for but a moment and agreed. He wanted to get rid of the wolf.
The horse let the man strap a saddle on its back and place a bit in its mouth. The horse felt a little uncomfortable, but if it would get rid of the wolf, he was willing to do it just until the man killed the wolf. Then he would be able to run in the woods and the fields again.
It only took a short time for the man and horse to find the wolf. And together, the two were able to trap the wolf. The man killed it with his javelin.
The horse looked over his shoulder at the man and said “Thank you. You have killed the wolf and I can run free in the woods and the fields.” He was surprised when he felt a painful tug on the bit.
“No,” said the man. “I want to keep you with me. You are a very strong horse and I can use you on the farm.”
The horse never ran free in the fields again. By compromising, the horse gained nothing. But it lost its freedom.
I suspect John Jenkins and many others started off with the best of intentions. They wanted to help God’s people. And of course the best way to do that is to have a big church so he can be on television, radio, and the internet. But by allowing heretics into the church, by inviting people who would draw crowds, they soon became slaves to the desire for a large church and so a slave to the men and women who could get them that large church with a big congregation. They are no longer free to preach the Gospel, to minister in truth to the saints. They now have to serve the Word of Faith Big Dogs.
This would explain why John Jenkins (or any formerly orthodox preacher) went from saying that he didn’t have anything to do with Word of Faith, ordaining women, and other stands, to declaring that T. Dexter Jakes is his mentor and preaching the very heresies that mark the Word of Faith preachers as aberrant. It would explain why John, when faced with the error of claiming that Jesus suffered in hell for three days, would side-step and insist on an indefensible lie.
You almost have to feel sorry for these guys. They started off with the best of intentions, but have been kicked to the side, left with nothing but large buildings packed with empty people, playing at church. And he still has to face Jesus Christ at the Bema Seat.
2 Peter 2: 1 - 22 says it all…
1 But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, and will bring swift destruction on themselves.
2 Many will follow their unrestrained ways, and because of them the way of truth will be blasphemed.
3 In their greed they will exploit you with deceptive words. Their condemnation, pronounced long ago, is not idle, and their destruction does not sleep.
4 For if God didn’t spare the angels who sinned, but threw them down into Tartarus and delivered them to be kept in chains of darkness until judgment;
5 and if He didn’t spare the ancient world, but protected Noah, a preacher of righteousness, and seven others, when He brought a flood on the world of the ungodly;
6 and if He reduced the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah to ashes and condemned them to ruin, making them an example to those who were going to be ungodly;
7 and if He rescued righteous Lot, distressed by the unrestrained behavior of the immoral
8 (for as he lived among them, that righteous man tormented himself day by day with the lawless deeds he saw and heard),
9 then the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from trials and to keep the unrighteous under punishment until the day of judgment,
10 especially those who follow the polluting desires of the flesh and despise authority. Bold, arrogant people! They do not tremble when they blaspheme the glorious ones;
11 however, angels, who are greater in might and power, do not bring a slanderous charge against them before the Lord.
12 But these people, like irrational animals–creatures of instinct born to be caught and destroyed–speak blasphemies about things they don’t understand, and in their destruction they too will be destroyed,
13 suffering harm as the payment for unrighteousness. They consider it a pleasure to carouse in the daytime. They are blots and blemishes, delighting in their deceptions as they feast with you,
14 having eyes full of adultery and always looking for sin, seducing unstable people, and with hearts trained in greed. Accursed children!
15 By abandoning the straight path, they have gone astray and have followed the path of Balaam, the son of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness,
16 but received a rebuke for his transgression: a speechless donkey spoke with a human voice and restrained the prophet’s madness.
17 These people are springs without water, mists driven by a whirlwind. The gloom of darkness has been reserved for them.
18 For uttering bombastic, empty words, they seduce, by fleshly desires and debauchery, people who have barely escaped from those who live in error.
19 They promise them freedom, but they themselves are slaves of corruption, since people are enslaved to whatever defeats them.
20 For if, having escaped the world’s impurity through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in these things and defeated, the last state is worse for them than the first.
21 For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness than, after knowing it, to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them.
22 It has happened to them according to the true proverb: A dog returns to its own vomit, and, “a sow, after washing itself, wallows in the mud.”
Let’s see…
All I ever call them is Pimps. Does this mean Peter is a hater? Wait. All scripture is inspired by God. That would mean God moved Peter to write this. That means God must be a hater!
Either that or people who whine about calling out the pimps must have a lower standard than God.
Melvin, the latter part is true:
“people who whine about calling out the pimps must have a lower standard than God.”
People who complain about exposing doctrine errors, sin, and sinful believers obviously don’t have the mind of Christ. If you don’t have the mind of Christ, your standards will always be lower than Gods.
“by allowing heretics into the church,”
Melvin you can’t expect any better than that. Afterall, heresy was being taught WITHOUT guest ministers in the pulpit.
This is the very danger of compromising, you never can say how far you will go. Let Jesus build the church as He said that he would Mt.16:18. He knows what He is doing.
That was also a tight story MJ, hope you don’t mind if I use it. A great way to illustrate the danger of compromise.
Be my guest. I …um…borrowed it from Aesop.
I’ve been on this site a few times and unfortunately most of the stuff said about FBCG is true.
I’m currently a member there in a couple of ministries so I’m aware of what’s going on. I have noticed the changes. Noticed the people who have preached in the pulpit and the stuff that have been preached.
We had people who are known for preaching false doctrines or closely associated with those that preach false doctrines (i.e. T.D. Jakes, Clint Brown, Noel Jones and Paul Morton). We had people who, to me, just wanted to name drop on who he or she knows (i.e. Tim Storey) instead of preaching the gospel. All types of stuff being said in the pulpit even the occasional expletive terms made by visiting preachers (i.e. Tony Compolo).
I was even there a couple of years ago when Pastor Jenkins said that Mr. Jakes was his mentor. All types of red flags went up. I keep telling my wife as soon as we get in that monstrosity on Watkins Park Drive things are going to change forever and I’m not talking about a good change either, especially now since we are on this 2006 theme of “Going to the Next Level”.
So my house is split in regards to this concern. Anyway, I think it’s unfair that I and anyone else have to get up and leave. We are commanded in scripture to challenge those things who preach a false gospel, but how can my one voice be heard?
I never been thought of as a troublemaker, but there have been so many times I wanted to pull pastor up or anyone on the ministerial staff and express my concern, but I’m nobody. Just a face in a crowd of thousands. I know I can’t be the only one in FBCG that see the dangerous road we are traveling, but with the ridiculous support pastor and all these visitors we have been getting over the past 5 1/2 years it sure does seem like it. A couple of years ago I jokingly told my wife, that the first time I see Creflo or Eddie Long at a FBCG event I’m out the door. I look back on it and I should have been out the door because there have been people there who have been just as bad.
Back in January at the New Years revival I was working the event. I did something I thought I never would do, without a word to the people I was working with I got up and left way before the service was over. I was just so frustrated and taken a back of this whole situation and how it did not matter what Jakes had to say, the people were going to jump and shout for him anyway. I’m almost tearful and angry typing right now because I’m so disappointed of what’s going on, but like I said what can I do. I’m just a face in the crowd.
I apologize for this lengthy comment, but I needed to vent a little bit.
Bro. do not think that there is nothing you can do. There is plenty that you can do. I do believe that God is still in the business of inspiring his people. If you are concerned, and I believe that you are, write your pastor a letter. Pour you heart into it, and let the Lord do the rest. Remember the weapons of our warfare are not carnal. (2 Cor. 10:4) The battle truly is not ours (in the physical) But I tell you from experience, that in the spirit, by using wisdom, we can whoop some tail. And if it pleases God not to change his mind, remember Acts 2:40. and Phil 2:12.
F.L. Anderson
Sometimes it is saddening to see the righteous way be abandoned, but I have to say this, God is letting you know something. The least you could do is try. You may be one man but so was Jesus, and so was Paul, and so on…
Its better to meet God and say “I tried”, than to tell Him “I was just one person, it wouldnt have made a difference”.
Not to claim any commonality with Luther, but I’m just a face in the crowd. I’d like to think I am making a difference. But even if I don’t, obedience is better than my idea of success. I do believe it was Jeremiah who preached and preached and in the end, no one listened. But he did his job.
OBEDIENCE—Good point Melvin!
Jeremiah was a “true” man of God. He was called by God. He lived a holy and consecrated life before God. Jeremiah lived the life that he preached. He wasn’t a crowd follower. Therefore, Jeremiah had no problem preaching repentance, exposing sin, and chastising the congregation.
Jeremiah didn’t make any excuses for sin, such as “nobody’s perfect”. He didn’t justify sinners in the congregation. Jeremiah spoke God’s truth without concern for people hating and persecuting him. He didn’t care if he had a roof over his head.
Jeremiah had far less materialistically. Yet he upheld God’s standard of righteousness more so than you see today. He had the true anointing of God operating in his ministry.
Unfortunately, ministers aren’t like that these days. They’re more concerned about being liked by the crowd. If the Pastor is wrong, they won’t take a stand for God by speaking out or leaving. But they claim they have a heart for God.
Eventually, clicks with Pastor’s loyal supporters are formed within the church. This is where the new ministers are selected from (especially at FBCG). The new ones are programmed to follow the same “monkey see monkey do” cycle by putting on a “religious front”.
Hey, As I read your post, I remember feeling exactly the way you do, and that was over 9 years ago!!! I definitely want you to know that I know what you’re going through. For me, there was frustration, anxiety, betrayal, uncertainty,etc.
One of the most dangerous characteristics I found at first Baptist was the propensity for the congregation to attack anyone who openly disagreed with John. I remember when he would do his thing at Bible studies, and then the “naive” new Christian (who is still actually studying the scriptures without being tainted) would stand up and ask a question that would challenge Jenkins or oppose what he just taught. The crowd would literally scoff and laugh at this person! I remember approaching a coupple of these poor folks after the bible study to discuss their question and they would be confused and perplexed. I suspect some would leave the church and others would unfortunately conform.
I advise you not to be intimidated. I think you should confront Jenkins, the “elders”, and deacons. If no one is willing to reason with you on your concerns, leave that place and take your family. I know that is easier said than done, but discuss it with your familiy and make sure you guys agree on your approach and once you have done your due diligence, bounce.
I would like to emphasize that I left 2 years before Melvin…that’s a long time ago. I doubt anything is going to be changing for the better, but that’s just my carnal mind.
Damagoh you said, “….was the propensity for the congregation to attack anyone who openly disagreed with John.” Amen.
That occurs in other instances where their errors have been exposed. They favor the sinners (including S H***** the homosexual) and condemn the just. That’s an ABOMINATION TO GOD!! (Proverbs 17:15)
The members and leaders are too blind to see they’re provoking God’s judgment that will surely fall upon them.
Damagoh, rest assured things will change (in due season). God’s not going to continuously sit back and allow the devil to reign in His house. As another member recently said to me, “God’s going to do some house cleaning.”
~~~~FBCG Guilty of 3 Counts of Abominations~~~~
#1 “But the men of Sodom were exceedingly wicked and sinful against the LORD.” Genesis 13:13NKJV “Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them.” Genesis 19:5 NIV
# 2 and # 3 “He who justifies the wicked, and he who condemns the just, Both of them alike are an abomination to the LORD.” Proverbs 17:15
A breakdown of the 2 counts in Proverbs 17:15: He that justifies (Stephen) is an abomination to the Lord. He who condemns (those who are upright) is an abomination to the Lord.
QUESTIONS:
What spirit is dwelling inside African American churches like FBCG?
They’ve become nonchalant about sin including homosexuality. Melvin, do me a favor. Describe for your readers what type of Pastor allows homosexuals to do music or any other ministry in their church. Does the Bible condone this? Also, what type of minister becomes friends with a homosexual?
Thanks for your time.
Yes, I know I’m not Melvin, but I felt like answering anyway. One of your statements above is:
Describe for your readers what type of Pastor allows homosexuals to do music or any other ministry in their church
I guess the same kind of pastor that would allow other people who committ and/or practice sin in ministry.
Questions for you: Is there a reason why you highlighted this particular area? I just ask because there are quite a few people in ministry who not only committ sin, but practice it as well. I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt, and believe that they are included in what you have said above…
Question #2: Do you break off friendships with people who commit sin? My question is related to this question you posed:
Also, what type of minister becomes friends with a homosexual?
There are many people who committ sin that is not as “visible” to the human eye as others. So do we totally walk away from people or make some effort to minister to them. In addition, the old line comes to mind (not sure if it is entirely applicable here, but…): Love the person, not the sin…
Tweet,
I have to agree with you. Sin is Sin. Any Pastor who becomes friends with a sinner is alright by me as long as they are the influence in that relationship. Look at Jesus, He, on several occassions was found fraternizing with the “unsavory”, but you better believe that he was the influence in the situation.
But, on the other hand, To just curious’ point, I don’t think a pastor or ministry should allow those who have openly unrepented sin hold places of leadership in the church. Now, one could argue, how do you know that he/she is gay? Did you catch them in the act or are you judging them based on dress or mannerisms? Its gets a lil’ sticky. But, being the homophobe that I am, I’m hearing ya Just Curious!!! lol
Tweet, thanks for sharing.
After Melvin answers my questions, I’ll attempt to answer yours. Be patient.
Damagoh:
In the eyes of God, sin is not sin. That’s why God refers to some sins as “abominations”. God hates all sin especially those He considers as abominations. That’s why he destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah.
If the spirit of God is operating in you and your ministry, you don’t have to “catch someone in the act”! In 1 Corinthians 5, Paul didn’t know the guy before passing judgment. (vs. 3) He was physically located elsewhere. Apparently, he received confirmation via the Holy Spirit. Notice Paul did not ask any questions nor ask for any witnesses.
In his absence, Paul chastised the saints for allowing the sexual immoral man inside the church. (vs. 2, 6) “And you are so proud of yourselves! Why aren’t you mourning in sorrow and shame? And why haven’t you removed this man from your fellowship?” (New Living Translation) Throughout the text, Paul showed no sign of sympathy.
At least 3 times (in various ways), Paul demands them to REMOVE the man from the church. (vs. 5, 7, 13) The last version makes the point even clearer: “But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.” Also remember the spiritual man makes judgments about ALL things (1 Corinthians 2:15). God lead Paul to have the sexually immoral man REMOVED from the church. The saints were instructed NOT to allow such persons inside the church nor associate with them.
With all this in mind, what scriptures gave churches the right to allow homosexuals to practice any form of ministry? Are they suppose to usher? No. Are they suppose to preach? No. Are they supposed to sing or play music? No.
Outside of the Holy Spirit, common sense would confirm H***’s homosexuality. It’s a matter of instincts not just outward appearances. Male intuition knows the presence of a homosexual.
Among music industry folks, H***’s gayness is obvious and well known. In that circle, fags openly hit on any one they’re attracted to. They don’t care if you’re married or whatever. They do it right inside the church. I see it all the time.
I know persons (in the music industry) who’ve known H*** personally for over 15 years. Everyone firmly admits, “He’s gay.” They’ve never seen him as otherwise. That means H*** was practicing homosexuality years ago when he was at G****** UMC and E*******, also.
Damagoh, there’s nothing “a lil’ sticky” about this subject IF a saint is really lead by God’s spirit and upholds His word. Yet if you’re not led by the spirit of God, you don’t have the mind of Christ, you have the wrong priorities for ministry, OR if you have the same issues, you won’t be able to enforce God’s word.
(MN: Ooooh Noooo. It’s Gaydar!!!)
Tweet:
Let God’s word not your emotions or what you see in church answer your questions. The scriptures speak for themself:
NO Fellowship with Sinners in the Church.
“But now I have written unto you NOT to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolator, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.” (1 Cor 5:11)
“I wrote unto you in an epistle NOT to company with fornicators:” (1 Cor. 5:9)
“And if any man obey not our word by this epistle, note that man, and have NO company with him, that he may be ashamed.” (2 Thessalonians 3:14)
God’s word doesn’t contradict itself.
okay…relax! I wasn’t refering to anyone in particular. But to address you statement, if that dude is gay then I agree, he should not be the “minister” of music. So, what do you suggest God do, send down a pilar of fire to consume him because you have without a shadow of a doubt confirmed that he is gay? Is that your prayer for the “fags”?
I still say sin is sin. You are just as much a sinner as H**** is…gasp!!! The good news is you either are, or have the opportunity to be a sinner saved by grace.
I thought I was a homophobic! you got it bad. Why do you stay at that church? why are you tolerating this abomination of desolation?
Damagoh you’re a nice person, and I hope I don’t offend you by saying: Your beliefs are not scriptural.
a) Sin is not sin. Abomination infuriates God. Some sins cause spiritual death. see Romans 6:16, 6:23a, 8:13; 1 Timothy 5:6; James 1:15
If a believer commits certain sins, he will be prohibited from entering heaven. see 1 Corinthians 6:9-10; Galatians 5:21; Ephesians 5:3-7; Revelations 21:8, 22:15 He will spend eternity in hell.
b) The bible does not condone believers being “friends” with sinners inside the church. see 1 Corinthians 5:9, 5:11; 2 Thessalonians 3:14
Somehow, y’all have gotten Paul’s instruction backwards; You tolerate Christian sinners and will not associate with unbelieving sinners. We are to have no fellowship with any BELIEVER that lives in any kind of immorality, not just fornicators. The phrase “not to keep company with” is the translation of one Greek word “sunanamignumi” which means “to mingle together with.” It is found only here and in 2 Thessalonians 3:14. We are not to socialize or eat with such a person. There are no exceptions mentioned.
Clearly, if a BELIEVER is living in sin, he is to be confronted. If he fails to repent of his sin, other believers are not to have any fellowship with him. A confrontation should occur. Other believers’ should have contact with him ONLY for the purpose of confronting him about his sin and calling him to repentance.
CONCLUSION: It’s not alright for the pastor or other saints to be friends with sinners inside the church.
If H** has been in church for over 10 years and he’s still gay, neither his pastor nor his church friends have “had an influence on him”. If so, he would have repented by now. He was in church years before coming to FBCG. H****’s homosexuality for over 15 years is evidence of his rebellion against God. Having been exposed to God’s word, he has no excuse.
Damagoh, those who speak out are not “tolerating” his sin. If FBCG’s leadership was aligned with God’s word, H** would have never been allowed to do music or any other ministry in that church. That shows the lack of godly morals among church leadership.
H****** obviously isn’t concerned about going to HELL. That’s exactly where he’s headed.
“But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, SEXUALLY IMMORAL, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone….” Revelations 21:8, 2 Peter 2:6, Jude 1:7
So TWG, you’re saying Jesus’ blood was effective against some of my sins but not all of them? Or, put another way, you are suggesting that I can take me out of the Father’s hand and the Son’s hand? Or perhaps you are suggesting that my will is greater than the Holy Spirit’s will in that I can remove the seal with which I have been sealed to the day of redemption.
This god you talk about appears to be no more effective than me. Why do you bother to follow him and how do you know when you have slipped through his fingers?
Melvin
Your questions only prove your misunderstanding and misinterpretation of God’s word. Thus, I will not waste my time answering them.
Oh. Since others have already documented information, allow me to refer y’all to:
http://www.biblestudylessons.com/cgi-bin/gospel_way/eternal_security.php
http://www.swsbs.edu/pages/writings/Garner/salvation.html
http://www.evangelicaloutreach.org/phil1.6.htm
http://www.behindthebadge.net/osas/osas15.html
http://www.biblical-theology.com/security/ues.htm
http://members.fortunecity.com/contender/notsaved.htm
http://www.ryanhicksministries.com/quotes2.htm
http://www.bibleprophecyrevealed.us/2000/security.html
http://www.truthmagazine.com/archives/volume21/TM021017.htm
In God’s eyes, there’s no question concerning whom I serve. Unlike you, I know the truth concerning what He teaches in His word. That’s all that matters.
Good night!
(MN: As I have said before, nothing like a well-reasoned rational argument. Have you noticed how these clowns claim to be so far above you that they see no point in even wasting their time? It’s amazing how consistent they are. Interestingly, it always seems to happen when you ask the hard questions that force them to contradict Scripture. )
twg, thanks for the compliment, most people have said that i was mean. anyway, so, are you saying that you and all your friends aren’t sinners? I guess it is safe to say that you have always been a believer and never lied either, because if you have your arguement would suggest that you have reservations at lake brimstone.
Nobody was born saved and sinless. That’s not the interpretation I got from TWG’s message. Your thoughts are the carnal Christian’s way of thinking.
Yes; We all sin in some way. But we must repent of those sins.
I assume you’ve been indoctrinated with Baptist doctrine. That’s too bad. You won’t hear them and other false teachers preach from 2 Peter 3:9. This passage was addressed to born again Christians.
“The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.”
God is patient with us concerning time. He’s giving us space to repent of our sins. That’s because He doesn’t want us to “perish”.
For homework, would you mind defining what it means to “perish”?
Observer,
I’m not saying that repentance is not necessary. I think if I were to align my thinking with scripture, I would reference Jesus and the samaritan woman (John ch3). Jesus completely influenced that relationship, he first did what most Jews would never do and that was talk to her. Kind of like TWG with this gay dude, the jews look upon her as filthy and beyond repair. the Key here is Jesus influenced the relationship, and the woman repented. Check out Matt 11:19
…You know what they say happens when you assume! Not to mention, stereotypical. My question was rhetorical.
Damagoh:
I’m glad you emphasized “Jesus” was the one who influenced the relationship. That’s why the Samaritan woman repented. Today, believers tend to use the label “Christian”, but most are not like Jesus.
The above referenced gay man is not a new believer. S H*** has been inside church for over 15 years. If his Pastor and church peers were a godly influence, he should have repented years ago.
Stop making excuses for this guy.
ATTENTION: Stephen H****
On last night, our paths crossed. I wanted to speak to you and apologize. That wasn’t possible because we were in a rush to get to our destinations. At any rate, I’m going to do it now. **It won’t be a typical apology because I’m still in a venting mood.
For some time now, you’ve carried hatred and bitterness in your heart towards me. That’s why you can’t speak and try to avoid me. Hatred and bitterness has further “defiled” you; So you need to repent from that also. (Hebrews 12:15) You can’t say you love or know GOD and hate someone. (1 John 2:9, 1 John 4:20)
As you know, I personally admonished you several months ago. You couldn’t face the TRUTH. So you walked away. Perhaps you were in a state of “denial”. Nevertheless, GOD will hold you accountable for my spoken and written words.
GOD is omniscient. He knows all your thoughts, motives, and actions. Stephen, you can’t fool GOD with your “acts” and “staged performances” at church. You can’t fool GOD by talking to or sitting next to females for “appearance sake”. GOD knows your unnatural, sexual desires for men and other sins. He knows you have not repented! Your worship is in vain. (1 John 1:6, 1 John 2:1-6)
Hopefully, this will be my last sermon to you. I’ll let GOD speak for himself via His word:
“Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, …….., hatred, ….., heresies, envy, ……., and the like; ….. just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will NOT inherit the kingdom of God.” (Galatians 5:19-21 NKJV; Ephesians 5:3-5)
“But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, …., and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone,…” Revelations 21:8 NKJV; Revelations 22:14 ,15; Jude 1:7
**Only your repentance can keep you out of hell.
Oh; Now where was I? Back to the apology: Stephen H******, I’m sorry if I offended you with my comments on this website. No; I never stated a word that was not true. It’s just that my motives were wrong and ungodly. My heart was bitter. That caused me to sin against you. So I owe you an apology.
Hopefully, you can forgive me some day. Yet first you must get healed from your “strongholds”. If any of you readers know how to get a prayer through, please keep Stephen H*** in prayer concerning his “repentance” from homosexuality and bitterness.
Stephen, I know this may fall on “deaf ears”: Again, I apologize for offending you with my comments (including tonight’s). When you stop being angry and afraid of me, remind me to tell you the story about my cousin.
“Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous.” 1 John 3:7
The above walking wounded person needs to repent of his homosexual deeds. If not, he will perish. His pastor’s approval can not save him.
Without holiness NO man will see the Lord. [Hebrews 12:14]
“But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, …., and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone,…” [Revelations 21:8 NKJV; Revelations 22:14 ,15; Jude 1:7]
This is old news.
Today’s churches are full of unregenerate people who were never converted. For various reasons, that’s not a priority of many large denominations. The integrity of ministries has dissolved as they pursue things that draw money and large crowds.
The homosexual demon is a very powerful demon that takes possession of the person. This spirit will stay until it’s cast out. It doesn’t go away when someone makes a confession of faith. Professionals say the older a homosexual man gets the younger his prey become. He acts according to whether his environment is open or against towards homosexuality. In certain settings (ie, church and work), the homosexual preys on married men, also. Any man that hangs around them is usually bi-sexual or gay.
****** **** (MN: I edited the name) went from nude dancing and shakin’ his little thing on stage of night clubs to singing gospel. His spirit was never purged. The Holy Spirit can’t dwell in an unclean temple. Therefore, it never took residency in him.
Satan himself, in a sense, was a minister of music. He has a host of talented singers who will spend eternity with him in hell. Fornicators and homosexuals are banned from God’s Kingdom. Galatians 5:19-21, Ephesians 5:3-5, Jude 1:7
Spectator, you are going to have to give me some ironclad, objective evidence before I can publish your comment.
Melvin
Uh, where does the Bible talk about a “demon of homosexuality”?
Somethings are spiritually discerned. In general, homosexuality is caused by a demon (unclean spirit). That’s common knowledge among those who have a so-called deliverance ministry. Apparently that’s not your ministry.
Visit FBCG and see for yourself.
Survey:
Who’s more wicked between Ministers of Music or Ministers of the Pulpit? If you expose one, you should expose the other.
Essence Magazine: July 6, 2006, page 166
Article: “Caught Up in the Rapture”
Subject: Pulpit Church Groupies, Lust, and Lies
The title is misleading in regards to the subject matter. Rev. Johnny Parker gives his professional insights. Melvin’s favorite word “pimp” was used by one woman during her testimony. One minister is a handsome, married, pastor in Baltimore.
According to the bible, a little leaven leavens the whole lump. Thus, adultery and homosexuality are just as important as false teachers. These issues should be put on the table and discussed.
…………
It’s fair to presume the subject person not mentioned is a member of FBCG and the subject of previously posted comments.
Praise the Lord! What happen to try the spirit to see whether it is of God?
Bishop Jakes and nobody else should be able to make us do anything that is not of the Lord. It is us that put Man on a pedestal and we need to repent , pray and stay before the Lord so we will know only to lift up the Saviour Jesus!
In other words what I am saying: It is easy to blame someone else. The Lord ordained that person but some of us kept pumping them up, making gods out of them and that shouldn’t have been so. They are servants , here to serve at least that’s what Jesus said.
Thank you
Dear Sir you said, “I know I can’t be the only one in FBCG that see the dangerous road we are traveling, but with the ridiculous support pastor and all these visitors”.
Allow me to comfort you by saying: You’re not the only one at FBCG whose eyes have been opened to their doctrine errors and wickedness. God has good reasons to delay the building project. They won’t be moving to the new building anytime soon.
Rest assured that God will soon “clean house” at First Baptist Church of Glenarden. God’s going to sweep from the pulpit to the back door of the main sanctuary. Judgment will soon begin at First Baptist Church of Glenarden. (1 Peter 4:17)
Encourager,
What if God doesn’t “clean house”?
That’s not an option to consider. His word can not fail:
“For the time has come for judgment to begin at the house of God; and if it begins with us first, what will be the end of those who do not obey the gospel of God?” 1 Peter 4:17
“that He might present her to Himself a glorious church, not having spot or wrinkle or any such thing, but that she should be holy and without blemish.” Ephesians 5:27
Perhaps, the “church” that God is concerned about is the Body of Christ, that would consist of the believers. FBCG is not the bride of Christ, its the believers that attend FBCG and other churches that are the bride.
I think of a statement my pastor made during one of his sermons. He was talking about some tragic event (I think it was christopher reeds wife) where as humans, are knee jerk response is why would God let her die from cancer after years of takinng care of disabled husband (bad things happen to good people). My pastor offered the notion, why would we expect God to view death the way the we do as humans? God is eternal and all knowing, the after life is a mystery to mortal humans. So hence, physical death comes off as the end and it is merely by faith we believe in the afterlife (interesting term in this context…after life). Our finite minds put value in the things of this world, the tangible.
In the same train of thought, FBCG is not the major concern but rather the souls that attend. The economy (for lack of a better term) that we are in gives us the privilege to CHOOSE what we will associate ourselve with. God doesn’t send a plaque of locust, burning bushes, etc. Rather he sent the Gospel for us to respond to individually.
So, I say all of this to say FBCG can grow to a million people and build a building the size of three stadiums, but the accountability falls on us as individuals to determine where we should worship and what we will believe.
So don’t sit around waiting for God to consume FBCG by fire or send a plaque, just leave. When you and others who seek truth leave, that is in fact the cleaning of the house.
“When you and others who seek truth leave, that is in fact the cleaning of the house.” This is not God’s type of house cleaning. Time will surely tell.
Meanwhile, let’s agree to disagree. Love & Peace to you.
Dear F-C-FBCG-member,
You should fast and pray. When God opens your eyes to “mess” in the church, He wants you to interceed. Just make sure there’s nothing in your life that could hinder your prayer. The “prayer of the righteous man avails much”. James 5:16
Dear F-C-FBCG-member,
Please do not write a letter or approach your Pastor. Why?
1. You’d be wasting your time.
2. Your comments wouldn’t remain confidential. Others would misinterpret your actions and think you’re against Pastor. (That’s the corrupt mentality of many folks at your church.)
3. You’d be opening yourself up for attacks. His ungodly supporters will shun you and try to come against you. Even if they don’t approach you, they’ll try to do sneeky, undercover stuff.
4. God wants us to turn to Him first. Stay in a prayerful mode. Tell God what’s going on that you dislike. Ask God to make certain changes. **Just make sure your requests are in line with God’s word.
It sounds like your main concern is about the guest ministers or the associates of Pastor. In reality, there’s more detrimental things that would draw God’s concern. The things you’ve mentioned are just “surface” issues.
God’s more concerned about the “root” of the problem. You can’t resolve a problem without addressing the “root cause” of the problem. Ask God to open your eyes to recognize the “root” of the problems at FBCG. Then you can be a more effective intercessor.
On a different note, it sounds like you need to pray and fast about your marital relationship. Based on your above comments, you and your wife aren’t on “one accord” regarding FBCG.
As the head, you should be concerned. Perhaps BOTH you and your wife should pray/fast for God to perform a work in BOTH of you that will put you “on one accord spiritually”.
Be encouraged, stay in God’s word, and live by it.
F-C-FBCG-member
More importantly, if you try to turn him away from his heresies and his association with the rest of the pimps, he’s not going to listen. When I spoke with him in an effort to understand how he justified the teaching of Jesus suffering in hell, all he could say was “We interpret it differently. And I’ve been ministering for 25 years.”
John is not interested in changing. And he doesn’t have to justify his position. His elders and deacons, who have no ‘nads, are not going to call him to account if they have not by now. Those who might have left.
I suggest you do the same. Remember, if you continue to expose yourself (and your wife and children) to error, you begin to forget what the truth sounds like. Then you forget the truth.
Get out while the getting is good.
This website has been a blessing for me in that I am able to come to a place where there are God loving, truth seeking, and reality ready individuals who can normalize and vocalize my fears the influence FBCG is having on my family. The impact is real. It’s thick, sticky, and has visited my home delivering a season of unrest, dislocating peace and unity.
So, first I’d like to thank those of you who have just put it out there like it is. I ask you bear with me as I put this out there. I also ask that you forgive me if my words seem to be unclear, but I tell you they may be unclear because this experience has blurred my vision and perception of “church”.
I fear and grieve for my family members because I don’t know if my family really believes everything that comes from the messenger standing in the pulpit mixing scripture/doctrine/habits/desires/and his personal “think so” together classifying them as ordained words blessed by the creator of all things - God.
I fear and grieve for my family because I don’t know if my family members’ spirit has been troubled by what happens there and chooses to ignore it. I fear and grieve because I don’t know if the man professing to be a minister of God will command one more thing that will disrupt my household further.
I know the scripture tells us that we are responsible for our own salvation - that is independent of one another, as a personal relationship with God is between the servant and the Lord. It is just so painful to sit by watching someone walk with what appears to be open eyes directly onto I95 with cars, buses, trucks, driving at 70 to 80 mph. You scream at them trying to give warning of the danger, then you find out that you have lost your voice, can’t be heard at all. What a feeling of helplessness.
I fear and grieve as I read the scripture of Matthew 10:34-39 where the Lord says, “For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. And a man’s foes shall be they of his own household. He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.”
He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it. I believe I see what’s happening there. I believe that what I am seeing, hearing, and experiencing is so far from what is in the Bible, that behavioral expectations have become amendments to the gospel given to the Apostles who walked with Jesus.
I know that no one has authority to take away from or add to the word. I know that Jesus is the intercessor for us. I believe that no man or woman on earth can get to God any quicker than I can, as he is no respecter of person. What I don’t know is how to make my family member see this. Thank you for your ear. Peace & Blessings
Here’s the hard part. You can’t make them see it. You have to decide whether or not you should walk away. And if you should walk away, invite your family member to join you. Explain to the member why you are walking away. Make sure they understand, from Scripture, why you are walking away. And if they refuse to join you - - leave without them.
Is it easy? Anything but. Is it called for within scripture? Definitely. You just quoted a place in Matthew that says exactly that.
But whatever you do, don’t do nothing. Exposure to lies only makes it more difficult to hear the truth.
You are one of the reasons this site is here.
Melvin
At this point I would love to hear from the FBGC supporters. I would love to hear them minister to this hurting soul and explain to them why they should stay at that place.
My guess is this is where you will see that most FBCG members are like cotton candy. that evaporate at the thing of substance, at the things that are true ministry. They can sing, shout, and give their money, but when its time to help a hurting soul they are bankrupt.
I would really love to hear a FBCG supporter address this person’s issues!
(MN: You did. He called me a liar and invited everyone to come on Sunday to listen to his pastor. )
Damagoh What do you mean by “evaporate at the thing of substance”?
How can they help someone they probably don’t understand?
Sorry, I guess that didn’t make sense…heheh. Okay, I meant most FBCG members have nothing to contribute when it is comes to ministering to those who are spiritually hurting. My analogy was just as cotton candy has zero nutritional value for the physical body so does the average FBCG to the body of Christ.
How do they help someone they don’t understand? hmmm…I going to say that god provided a blueprint with his scriptures. If properly understood, its amazing how many ailments the scriptures can heal. The miracle is you don’t need to understand, I don’t need to have been adicted to crack to help a crack addict.
My, My, My - my heart goes out to you….
One of the scriptures the Lord gave me when He was dealing with me about leaving my former church was (Matthew 10:34-39) along with Matthew 24 and many others. I feel your pain, mixed emotions, helplessness and dispair and dissappointment. I can so relate. I walked very, very closely with my pastors in a leadership position for 12 years - I even worked full time in the ministry for 9 years - my children were in the christian academy there, etc, etc.
To make a very long story short, the last 5 years there were very hard because of all of the error that was and still is being taught. I kept praying for God to show me the truth. All I wanted and still want is the truth of His Word - not man’s motivational speaking, not man’s “revelation” - just God’s sound doctrine. What I know is that being in that type of environment, feeling the way you do will kill your spirit.
In June, 2004, I walked away and never looked back and in that action, my life has been changed - forever! I left behind many good people who were my friends but because of the the type of ministy I was in, those same people are afraid to reach out to me and that’s alright. Everybody has to come to their own truth in their own time and I pray that they do. But when you walk in what God’s Word truly says, in your heart you are “set free” - indeed.
Be encouraged and do what you know in your heart is right to do. Pray for those family members and set an example by standing on the True Word of God:
“34 “Do not think that I came to bring peace on earth. I did not come to bring peace but a sword. 35 For I have come to set a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; 36 and a man’s enemies will be those of his own household. 37 He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me. 38 And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me.”
It may cause friction for a while but as you continue, with love and a pure heart, to stand on the sound Word of God, and continue to allow God to work in your heart, they will be watching you - let love motivate you and your light shine because there is light on the other side of darkness
I’m a witness….
Melvin - God bless you and keep on keeping on… this IS exactly what this site is here for!!!
Peacemaker,
You’ve been given numerous pieces of advice. The final decision is up to you.
By now, you should know the culture of that type of environment. If you’re uneasy now, how will you feel if your concerns are ignored? Then what will you do?
If you have children and a spouse who can’t discern between sound and unsound doctrine, you need to consider leaving WITH your family. As the head of your family, you need to protect them and your spouse must be on the same page.
Fast and pray regarding the conflicts between you and your spouse. Fast and pray about leaving also. Don’t make a move without seeking God’s will. In the mean time, continue interceeding for your church.
PeaceMaker:
If you want “peace”, leave the situation alone and turn it over to God. Do not write a letter or approach your pastor. WHy?
1) He and his staff keep tabs on what’s said on this site. He’s already familiar with everyone’s gripes against him.
2) You’d be wasting your time and taking a risk of being mistreated.
Be patient and seek God for the solution that’s best for you and your family.
The only thing that should have authority over you is the word of God. Pray for understanding, then do what it says.
So how many different ways does it have to say “Have nothing to do with those who preach another gospel” before you decide to have nothing to do with those who preach another gospel? The only question would be how to execute the action, not whether or not to execute the action.
Write them, in a truth and unadulterated manner, but lovingly. Use scripture (though they know) to back up your words. If you feel that GOD is wanting you to speak up (saying “Come”) then do just that. That IS what I do. And Yes, I’ve been asked to “tone it down” in Bible studies because “his members” were beginning to listen more to me. Not a boast, please know that. I’ve written just recently another scriptually based letter to a bishop on tongues and it being out of order and disruptive and no interpreter. Right now this church is small. So it is probably easier to “hear” what God is saying. I feel it may be a bit harder when a church is much larger and the small sore has not become infected because no healing balm was used when it was just a small sore or irritation. Read Ezk, chapter 3. then give a deeper study to verses 10-24.
Truth.
It is always just a “face in the crowd” that makes waves in the crowd. I am not saying the same thing is going to happen, but look at Luther, a “Face in the crowd” Monk. We still know his famous line, “Here I stand, I can do no other. So help me God.” Church history shows how God uses the no names.
I do feel sorry for these churches - they raise lots of false converts. Speaking of converts, I’m off to a mission trip to Chicago. I’ll be back to PP.org in 7 days. I love y’all with the love of Christ!
2 Tim 2:4,
Neeci
Amen! Amen Neeci!
Technically, they aren’t “false converts”. Either you’ve been converted or you have not been converted.
During the “Romans Road” and “ABC’s of salvation” witnessing process, people are mislead by not receiving a “complete” gospel message. A “complete” message will include “repentance”.
What did Jesus instruct the disciples to preach? Repentance (Mark 6:12, Luke 24:47 ) Jesus and John set the example today’s saints and ministers have not followed. (Matthew 3:2, 3:8, 4:17, Mark 1:15, Luke 5:32, 13:3) As a result, the amount of conversions is extremely low.
FBCG and a hosts of other churches are guilty of having “false baptisms”. They baptize people who have not made a conscious decision to “repent” of their sins. All they have to do is believe and make a faith confession. That’s not the scriptural prerequisite to water baptism.
According to scripture, who qualifies to be baptized? Believers who are willing to repent of their sins. (Matthew 3:11, Acts 2:38) Baptism is the outward sign of their repentance. That’s why babies and small children should not be baptized.
If they had a mind to repent before baptism, they wouldn’t go down a dry devil and come up a wet devil. As Paul once said, “…..we should no longer be slaves of sin.” (Romans 6:6)