So, we go from a professor at a Baptist seminary (Joel Gregory) to a speaker from the Assemblies of God and Rhema training center (Nance). I’ve heard of being eclectic , but this borders on cognitive dissonance. Thus the amorphous blob in the shift from Gregory to Nance.
Let’s face it. Unless Dr. Gregory is a closet charismatic, or Nance secretly denies the basics of Pentecostalism, John Jenkins is calling in two men who hold to two distinct and, in this case, mutually exclusive views.
But despite what the two men may believe, the sign outside FBC Glenarden says, here let me say it slowly, B-A-P-T-I-S-T. By definition, Nance, as a graduate of an Assemblies of God Bible College and a graduate of the Rhema School of Astral Projections and Nifty Visions holds to many things that are an antithesis to Baptist doctrine.
If John is going to use the moniker “Baptist”, shouldn’t he at least bring in people who represent and promote a generally Baptist approach to spirituality?
Please understand. I fully understand that the Baptist approach to spirituality can be wrong even as the Assemblies of God approach can be wrong. But, the important thing to remember is that they can’t both be right. There is an even greater contrast when you bring the teachings of the Word of Faith (WoF) folks (like Hagin, Price, and the rest) into it.
It’s interesting to note that Kenneth Hagin is the founder of Rhema. Nance, as a graduate of Rhema, is basically a product of Haginism (WoF) which easily traces its way back to a fellow by the name of E. W. Kenyon (1867 - 1948), the grandfather of the Word of Faith teachings. In fact, I just received in the mail, a book authored by Mr. Kenyon, in which he states that Jesus suffered in Hell during the three days after the crucifixion. Here is a picture of the cover of that book. It was written around 1938, well before Daddy Hagin started his rise to fame (or infamy, depending on your take on the whole thing). Here is the place where the teaching starts to formulate. I have highlighted the specific sections.
E. W. Kenyon also made the statement that Jesus was the first Born Again man, something Creflo Dollar has not hesitated to state and to document in his Bible studies. Dollar simply follows the example of his mentor, Kenneth Copeland.
I doubt there is a bigger gap between two camps of Christianity than the gap between Baptist doctrine and that of the WoF folks. It’s probably bigger than the gap between Christianity and the Jehovah’s Witnesses. At least the JWs make an effort to actually study their Bibles and memorize scripture. The trouble is, they only study what their elders tell them to study and the verses mean what the elders say they mean. Wait a minute…that’s the same thing the WoF followers do. If you listen to the average WoF adherent talk, you will hear an echo of people like Dollar, Copeland, and others. More and more, that is also the sound you hear from those attending church at First Baptist Church of Glenarden, Empowerment Temple, and many other mega churches.
Please understand, John Jenkins is not the only Baptist preacher to sell his congregation down the doctrinal river. He’s just the one I am the most familiar with. Take a look at any of the “Full Gospel” Baptist pastors (Bishops Morton and Long, and a host of others) and you will see exactly the same thing happening. Get a copy of the leadership list of the Full Gospel Baptist fellowship or take a look at the members of the Fellowship and you will have a list of men and women who either don’t know any better or are more interested in the benefits of being plugged into the Signs and Miracles circuit than feeding their charges. But either way, they are not doing the sheep any favors.
That’s exactly why I left the A/G. They try to present themselves as a credible, orthodox denomination, yet all the while associate with a lot of WOF junk. The heresy of TBN has completely infiltrated them…speaking of TBN, here’s ans interesting tidbit:
http://www.dicksonherald.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060305/NEWS01/60305002/1297/MTCN02
Wow. And to the vast majority of the unsaved, these clowns, and others like them represent to character of Chrisitianity.
Man whats this crap. I knew TBN was crooked but $184 million ways crooked?!?! Have mercy Jesus.
WOWERS! this is why people at work and school have such a bad taste in their mouths about Christianity. These kind of people make it sooo hard to witness!
Okay, So as I attempt to analyze the reasoning of JKJ, I conclude it must be pure ignorance. I will suggest that he has not a clue about doctrine, theology, or scriptural interpretation.
If it’s not ignorance, then maybe its an effort to totally confuse his congregation, so that they cannot make heads or tails of what anyone is saying…the mantra becomes, “its all good!”
Oh well, I tried to give the benefit of the doubt.
Damagoh I agree with you 100% about JKJ, and I would like to add that he is more than ignorant, he is blind. And you know what happens when the blind lead the blind……well they both fall into the ditch. The sad thing about this is that there are a lot of folks under teachings similar to what this guy offers, and they are stuck in the ditch. My fear is that if heretics such as this keep going that people will sink deeper into the ditch until they reach hell itself. As a minister I feel that instead of asking for seasons of fresh anointing and prosperity, what we all need to do is pray that the Spirit of God would bring about reform to Christ church which these men poison. Also to Melvin I pray that you continue to move forward pressing for reform as you carry out the work of the Lord. Thanks for this website and thanks for deliberatley taking up the target, and wearing it on your back. To all the WOF folk I stand along side Melvin and the countless other orthodox believers and you better believe that reform shall happen whether you like it or not.
Semper Reformanda (Always Reforming),
Have any of you guys, besides Melvin, heard JKJ teach?
He comes on Sunday mornings at 7:30 (or 8:30, Idon’t remember which. No - I believe it IS 7:30)
You can listen to him this coming Sunday. But don’t expect to hear any great heresies. It’s not like he peppers sermons liberally with primo hogwash every singleSunday/Bible Study. But who knows, you might get lucky. Just be sure to listen to what he is saying and not how he is saying it.
And of course, that is available only on local cable. Though if you try real hard, you may be able to catch him on WAVA live streaming. If it’s still the same, he comes on around 10:00 am on Saturdays. That’s http://www.wava.com (It’s 105.1 FM broadcast). Go to the “Listen Live” link and work it from there.
You sure do keep up with a person you don’t like! Wow, I guess Pastor Jenkins does have an effect on you!
How else can I warn people away if I don’t know what they are doing? I keep up with T. Dexter and MegaMess and Eddie “Pimposaurus” Long and his Hotlanta Hot Singles. That way I can warn you who will listen of the scams the pimps constantly run on you. You, however, don’t seem to have any sort of doctrinal acuity. As one fellow said about governments, you deserve the church you get.
yep, I have heard him from the time he was a teenager up until about a year ago (where I think I only could listen for about 10 min., then I left.). I left that church about 8 or nine years ago.
We really don’t miss ya!
ouch!!! that was suppose to hurt, right? you probably don’t even know me. you might be surprised to hear this because many at FBCG folks live in a vacuum, but I don’t miss FBCG for one minute, it was a silly place 10 years ago and its just as silly now. peace.
I mean what do you expect me to say when you say those mean things about my place of worship. I have the right to defend! If I hurt your feelings, I am sorry, but I have read over some of the comments that you have sent to people, and they were worst than what I said. I apologize!
What I expect you to say is “Hmmm…let me look at the facts and see if these things are so. If in fact John associates with WoF people, that should be a flag to you. If in fact, he associates with Oneness folks, that should be a flag to you.
Neither of these are in doubt. You only have to look as far as your pastor’s website. He tells us where he is going to speak, who is coming in to speak, and what activities he’s taking part in.
Relaying public information to you and insisting you make a judgment on them is not being mean. Pointing out that the man has not grown a spiritual centimeter in the last 10 years is not mean. It may be uncomfortable, but it is not mean.
You would do well to look at the issues through a rational understanding of the Bible rather than through the John-tinted glass you and the rest of the sheep wear when they go to church on Sundays.
And understand, I am not striking out at you. I fly out of Freeway Airport just off of Rt 50 in Bowie. While I was there, I met a fellow who attends FBCG. He is a retired Captain (o-6) in the Navy. Apparently attended the Naval War College so he has some brain power. I was talking to him one day and he told me that John Jenkins was the best preacher he had heard.
It seems that people have two standards: Their professional standard and then their church standard. And evidently, people don’t think they can use their minds and reasoning in church. Therefore, if they don’t understand something it must be because it is too deep for them. The pimps take advantage of this all day long. Thus they can say thing that are clearly contrary to Scripture (Jesus suffered in hell for our sins, faith is a substance, etc) and normally intelligent people don’t say a thing.
Again, don’t confuse correction with being mean. Telling my child he has his shoes on the wrong feet isn’t mean, is it?
Damagoh does, at times, have a somewhat sharp tongue. But I think it’s more out of frustration than an attempt to insult.
Melvin, I have nothing against anybody having an opinion. I haven’t seen anything thus far, and I say thus far, at FBCG that makes me want to question my pastor or his motives. When I do, I will try to meet with him with my issues. I am not knocking what you are doing because this is a free country and you have the right to freedom of speech. I was really commenting to Damaghoh about his responses. Sometimes he has to know how it feels to be on the receiving end for once. I didn’t mean to disrespect him, but he has disrespected a number of folks who comment on your site! In other words, he needs to stay out of the kitchen if he doesn’t want to get burned!
These aren’t opinions. The guy on the right factually graduated from Hagin’s bible school. It is a fact that he is Word of Faith. It’s not my opinion that your pastor has invited several Oneness preachers to speak. It’s not my opinion that your pastor has preached and associates with those who preach that Jesus suffered in hell. None of these are opinion. All of them are things, according to the Bible, you should be paying attention to. If they don’t trouble you, then I can see why you think the things I and others say are mean. And I can see why you would not consider them the least bit important.
But please don’t leave this conversation thinking that I have just stated my opinion.
And as I have said on several occasions, in general I can’t judge motive. Neither should you.
Melvin
You can come and hear my pastor 5 times on Sunday. We have 5 services; 7:00, 8:45, 10:30, 12:15, and 6:30 at night. We have all of those services to accomodate our members. We are planning on moving to our new church in Mitchelleville in September. Hopefully you can come out a hear him this Sunday. He is doing a series on Finances. It was awesome on last Sunday, and many souls were blessed and a large amount of people got saved! I just want you to hear him for yourself. God Bless!
NCW, don’t let one individual determine what’s best for you. If Melvin was so godly and so spirtual he wouldn’t be doing this website. Just think about it for yourself and you will begin to realize the hate he has for my pastor. Now, why would a person hate another person and their church so badly! If you are no longer a member, than be gone!
Peace, I’m sure if you work real hard, you can actually answer my questions. You may not lke the answers, but please try.
Why do you assume hate when a man is called out? Does “love” mean giving a crook a free ride?
Let me guess…his series on finance…be debt free, pay your tithes first, don’t use credit cards, pay small bills first, don’t be pressured to buy now, etc… yep, he has been preachin that one for at least fifteen years now.
Oh yeah he updates it with things like God blesses you on the offering above the tithe. The tithe is your duty, its what comes after the tithe that counts.
Does he still let people stand up and “testify” how God miraculously created a computer cliche and they got of the hook for paying their debt?
This is my favorite, when JKJ “testified” about how people should step out on faith like him and live debt free, or how God would bless them by sending people to give them furniture, appliances, cars, etc. I wonder if him being the pastor and brown nosers contribute to this.
I bet I would be debt free too if the church paid me a six figure salary, gave me a car, people always cooked for me, never needed to pay for childcare, carwashes, landscaping, etc. oh yeah, don’t forget the luv offerings and the speaking engagements. yep that adds up to debt free and an airplane!
Pastor Jenkins has not mentioned tithes thus far in his series on finance. Get your facts straight and maybe just stop by and HEAR FOR YOURSELF! You may just be blessed!
no thank you. I think you all miss my sarcasm. please don’t think that I am at hostile on this in term of exerting alot of energy. I have had more than my fill of FBCG and JKJ. my point was his financial series is nothing new.
Another thing, I think only a few of them have actually heard Pastor preach! They are all piggy backing off of Melvin. ( no, I won’t go there).
So am I being advised not to attend one of his services? I live in NE DC and I do have a church home. I wouldn’t come to his church to find fault in him, that’s not what it’s about. But a baptist church with 6,000 is unheard of. He must be intriguing to the saints.
I think it would, in all probability, be a waste of your time.
Big Baptist churches? Eddie Long-20 thousand. And there are others.
Intriguing isn’t the word I would use. Paul describes them as men who tickle their followers ears.
Why would it be a waste of time Melvin?
I have been reading through alot of these comments and I am saddened by the whole thing. Jakes is not a Word of Faith teacher… I don’t know where that thought process comes from… neither is Noel Jones. I understand why some folks have problems with Baptists mixing with other folks, but as long as we preach the Gospel I don’t understand the separatism. I don’t believe that Jesus was as concerned as we are about denominations… I do believe, however, that we need to teach people that it is more to Jesus than being the big Santa in the sky… I also believe that our eyes have been blinded by the riches of men that we don’t often hear the message. There will come a time when we are all stripped down and judged according to our works. I just want to hear Him say well done… all this other venom spewing is not uplifting for the kingdom… when you have done all you can do… PRAY and PRAY some more.. mainly so that you won’t fall into error….
Anonymous (two comments up)
It would be a waste of time because in general the average Christian will not learn anything particularly useful. Sure, he may comeout with an insight or two in the course of several sermons, but for the most part, the average Christian will not get much of anything to enable them to live in the real world, with real people, with real problems.
I do believe he is still saying such cheerleading statements as “you’re the head and not the tail” or “No weapons formed against you can prosper.” While these statements are certainly in Scripture, he, along with folks of his ilk, consistently misapply them, thus not being able to address the fact that with one exception, all of the Apostles met very messy deaths, John the Baptist was killed, the prophets in the old testament were killed, etc., etc.
In the six-plus years I was there, and the remnders I get on sunday mornings, he has not changed what he preaches.
By the way, what do you think “No weapons shall prosper against you” means?
No weapon shall prosper against me means that I have put on the full armour of God, which means, I believe in his word and how he protects me against my enemies, and other things that plan to attack me and cause me to fear and not have faith. Without faith, it is impossible to please God,
NO weapons means that I know that God will protect me and keep me, his word says that he will never leave me or forsake me! Alot of Christians go through things and they say, “no weapon” because we are not consumed. God will allow us to go through seasons of struggle and pain, but we are not consumed, according to this word. God may have to shake us up a little to get us back in line with his word and his will for our lives when we stray or commit sin. I am glad that God shakes me up every now and then because I know when I regain myself and start living Gods word I am a better wife, mother, and friend. This is what “no weapon” means to me.
AHHH!!! It’s great to be back!!! (Our baby, Mia, gets to come home tomorrow)
Peace,
Suffering is something that many WoF preachers and pentecostals think that we as true believers should never have to experience. They teach that all those things were “taken care of” in the atonement. but are they really?
John 16:33
33″These things I have spoken to you, so that in Me you may have peace. In the world you have tribulation, but take courage; I have overcome the world.”
Most good christians believe the words in red are infallible. If you beleive that, is Jesus saying that we will experience troubles in our life?
James 1:2-4
2Consider it all joy, my brethren, when you encounter various trials,
3knowing that the testing of your faith produces endurance.
4And let endurance have its perfect result, so that you may be perfect and complete, lacking in nothing.
I know the WoF folks really stress verse 4, because they love words like lack, etc, and apply it in a context that “lack” and other words are talking about finances. but I could give you many other verses to support my claim that “it rains on the just and the unjust.” We struggle and hurt and die and get sick at the same rate as everyone else. However, if we rely on Jesus, we are in a “win,win,win”situation. If we die: victory! If we are healed:victory. If we suffer: His grace is sufficient. Take it from someone who has experienced a lot of pain in the past six months. I have been told by some that if I only “work the word” the right way, my problems will be gone. This is a false teaching that creates a lot of shallow believers, who do not know how to handle crisis….
(Melvin’s Note: Welcome back Rev!!!)
YAH REV!! Congratulations!
So if I am persecuted and killed by my persecutor, did a the weapon (in this case the persecution) prevail? I didn’t just get shaken up, I got killed. Or in other countries, where people are daily killed for the gospel, do their weapons prevail against the believer?
What does it mean when I say “No weapon will prevail yada, yada?” To what degree can I apply this personally and to what degree does it apply to the Church Universal?
To Scotty, Melvin & Damagoh– This is an absolutely amazing site! Continue your work to encourage us to be the Bereans we should be!
After being a member of Independent Baptist Church in Clinton, Maryland for over 17 years, I began searching for a new church to be freed from the legalistic bondage of IBC. To my surprise, I starting listening to John Jenkins on WAVA. After attending FBCG, and studying Jenkins to be sure he was doctrinally sound, I thought I made an informed decision and not an emotional one, and joined in May of 2005. I soon became a quite concerned, when I realized that Jenkins and T.D. Jakes share the same pulpit. JKJ may not deny the Trinity, but how do you reconcile the fact that he allows those who do (deny the Trinity) to share his pulpit? Is it not as if he is endorsing the same? That is the basic fundamental core of Christianity– can he actually discount that for the sake of ecumenicalism? I think not. I had intended to ask him whether or not he knows that Jakes believes in Jesus only, and therefore, worships a different god than what the Bible proclaims. I think I have now been empowered to ask him and wait for his response–which should be supported with chapter and verse.
On the comments from one member on the financial series he is preaching on– he did preach about tithing. How can you preach from Malachi 3:8 (3/19/06) and not preach about robbing God?The only problem that I have with this titching dichotomy is that we dealing with apples and oranges. We are only taught that the tithe is to sustain the priests, and therefore the church of today. And if you are not tithing you are robbing God. Well, what if you are a single parent and not receiving child support, and just making enough to survive, are you still required to tithe? Tithing during OT days was under a theocracy. Not only was it used to provide for the priests, but also used to sustain the widows and oprhans and the poor. Is the church actually doing that (I know of no church that will sustain/supplement a single mom on a long-term basis) or is the government doing that in the form of welfare? Surprisingly enough, last Sunday Jenkins preached on 2 supernatural ways that God will get us out of debt. The first, II Kings 4– the widow and her sons, etc. and Matthew 17:24 Peter and the coin in the fishes mouth. Last part of Matt 17:27 … you will find a piece of money,, “take that and give it to them for Me and you.” The Bible didn’t say–go to the temple first, pay your tithe, and then pay them. I don’t know, maybe I’m just looking for an excuse to not to tithe. After being abandoned by my husband in ‘93 with 2 small children, still tithing– neglecting my creditors and having to file bankruptcy in ‘97 as a result. I’m having a hard time reconciling the two; especially when the tithe is not being used for which is was orignally intended. I’ve done taxes for single moms in the church who can barely take care of their families, but feel that they have to tithe or else the sledgehammer is going to come down on them even more. I won’t want to give them wrong advice, but should they have to go thru the same thing that I did years ago?
Again, thanks for the truth–
Are You Serious!!! a voice of reason!!! Dawn, You should go and ask John why he shares a pulpit with Jakes. If he gives you an answer, you could also ask him to post it on this site for all of us to read.
I know all about JKJ’s financial series and the fallacies therein. Like I said before he has encouraged people to neglect the bill collector and pay the tithe. In other words the church should get the sure shot and the bill collectors gotta wait for the miracle, which by the way would normally result in a erasure of your obligation. How dumb is that ??
While you’re asking about the Jakes thing also ask him to correlate Paul’s thoughts on the Cheerful Giver concept. You will definitely get a kick out of that interpretation.
Anyway, Dawn I applaud the fact that you are asking yourself good questions and willing to ask JKJ the same.
Peace, I also hear that JKJ is coming out with a book!!!! Now that is hilarious!! I look forward to the critique. For those aspiring authors this is a give me. I’m sure that it will be fertile ground for a rebuttal.
I appreciated your post Dawn!!
You are sure getting your information about FBCG, considering you are no longer a member and think that the church is ridiculous. Are you happy and busy at your present church? If you are not, please join a ministry or do something in your tired, borning, church and stay out of my place of fellowship! In other words, find something to do with your time! I can’t wait to read Pastor’s book. Get involved in your church please!!!!!!!!! I’m sure there is at least one minstry you can join to occupy your time!
You know what, I’m sorry, I thought about what I wrote and it is not me! Please forgive me Damagoh. You have a right to your opinion just as much as I do and insults will not get anyone of us anywhere. Again, please forgive me!
Peace,
Actually, I am contemplating changing churches, but not because its tired or boring. Its actually a wonderful church.
I’m sure you will enjoy John’s book, and I accept your apology. Had li’l rise in that flesh, huh?
I get information because I interact with people who attend your church, and they tell me what is going on. Believe me I am not inquiring. Again, I’m contributing to this thread just like you are.
To all you WOF ho’s out there, instead of using the things of God as means to a selfish end, why don’t you use them to claim reform within the universal church of Jesus Christ. Oh I’m sorry guys….I forgot that if reform actually happened it would be a huge threat to your WOF movement (heeheehee). Well so be it, Lord I stand with Melvin Jones and all the other orthodox believers who have not given into this heresy, and I claim the boldness that your Spirit gives so that we may continue to preach the truth. I claim reform for your church in this modern age, and I claim that your sovereign will be done. I claim that release of our wayward brethren from the clutches of the materialistic and selfish spirit of the WOF movement, and I pray that you will restore them to a right understanding of your word and you will for your church.
Semper Reformanda (Always Reforming),
Scotty Williams
By the way, I haven’t said anything about the way Jenkins preaches. I have been addressing what he does and who he associated with. He advertises this for the public to see. No one has to believe Melvin.
Peace,
Just out of curiosity, do you have any comments or observations about the facts stated in the article? Or do you want to stay with insults and mindlessly following “your pastor?”
By the way, thanks for visiting the site. I enjoy your inputs.
Melvin
Do you speak the same of Damagoh or whoever he is ? He is very mean and he insults me and others on your site! Speak to your boy first before you pass judgement on me! I have the right to defend my church! For the record, I follow God not my pastor!
Yes. IN fact, one of his comments didn’t get posted. For the most part, all of you generally get to say what you want without restrictions from me. If you choose to be insulting while covering the material at hand, I allow it. If you natter on stupidly, mindlessly spewing invectives, I warn you, give you another opportunity, and then cut you off.
So far Damagoh, though sarcastic has addressed the issues. Except for the one I didn’t post.
I’ve been censored!!! argh!!! Anyway, Let me say that I didn’t realize how “mean” I come off in my comments. I just try to be concise. So, let me ask for pardon on my perceived tone.
Peace, do you have any doctrinal issues with WoF teaching?
Only one problem here. If John is saying the same thing he was saying when I left, he claims to be God’s mouth piece. Therefore, to follow God, you have to follow John, because he speaks for God. And if you can’t follow him, you need to leave the church and find a Man of God you can follow.
Defending your church, what do you mean? are you defending your pastor? Do you mean the church as an institution, the body of christ, or the building?
I was just responding to NCW about anybody hearing him besides you. There are some people who have heard him besides you Melvin! I hope he comes and see for himself! No comments for you, your not worth my time!
Peace,
I understand that I am not worth your time. But the question is do you have any comments about the stated facts? What you think of me is irrelavent. But the question remains, do you really want to listen to a man who was trained in the metaphysical clap trap of Ken Hagin and E. W. Kenyon.
Do you really believe Jesus suffered in hell for our sins? Do you really believe the cross was insufficient? Do you have no problem with the fact that John invited two men who are literally on opposite ends of the spiritual spectrum?
Try to get your eyes off of me and pay attention to the issues. Remeber, the truth of what I am saying is not dependent on your view of me. And if it’s true, you have some serious issues to deal with.
Melvin, I’m not tryin’ to be funny, but I don’t think peace really understands the premise of this site or your inquiry.
peace will not be able to speak to the facts. peace probably doesn’t even see anything wrong the idea the Jesus suffered in hell for our sins. I honestly don’t think peace understands what you mean when you speak of the “spiritual spectrum”
you asking these question will only bring you frustration. what are you expecting, peace to al of a sudden go from ad hominem attacks to objective reasoning? unlikely…unless peace is bi-polar or something.
No bi-polar here! 4 year college graduate! Wife and mother of 2 beautiful children. Attend FBCG and involved in ministry at FBCG. Just speaking my mind just like you do Damagoh!
Then address the issues.
Melvin
Brethren, what Melvin has placed out here for us is indicative of what is going on in large Black Baptist Church in general. There is such a mixture of doctrines that these churches should erase “Baptist” from their names. For a church to be one of integrity, it should state what it is. I believe that some of these churches, like New Birth, retain “Baptist” is because they are independent and practice believers’ baptism. These two practices fail to comprise what it really means to be a Baptist church. Doctrinally, New Birth and other churches like it are something other than Baptist. There is an urgent need for Baptists to return to their founding principles articulated in confessions like the London 1689 and the Philadelphia Confession. Baptists must return to biblical worship, not cultural faddish worship. Black Baptists have created pulpit stars and divas rather than exalting the King, the Lord Jesus Christ himself. It is high time for a reformation among National Baptist Churches and other historically Black Baptist conventions. The Full Gospel movement signals just how weak and vulnerable Black Baptists are when it comes to sub-biblical and heretical teaching.
Wait! You just referred to something that happened before we were born and hasn’t appeared on The Church Channel, The Word Network, or Trinity Broadcasting Network. As such, you can’t expect people to know anything about it. And you can’t expect them to give much importance to what a bunch of dead white guys did back in the 1600s.
Of course, that’s part of the reason Black, White, and Brown churches are in such a fix. Old heresies are returning and getting stronger. And they are attacking the church. Don’t make the mistake of thinking it is only a phenomenon among Blacks. If you look out over the audience of Benny (There’s Nine of Them) HInn, or Kenneth Copeland, I believe you will see an awful lot of non-African face. Remember, spiritual seduction has no racial, ethnic, or gender barriers.
Confession? Isn’t that what you do when you get caught doing something wrong?
Melvin, I am a member of First Baptist Church of Glenarden (I have been a member for 6 years). And although I am questioning the type of preachers that Pastor Jenkins has invitited into the pulpit (I am not disagreeing with you on this one), and is allowing to preach to the flock, I have never heard him state that T. D. Jakes is his mentor nor that Jesus went into hell.
As you are aware, the church does tape the sermons. I would appreciate if you or any other members (and even ex-members) of First Baptist could please let me know when Jenkins did mentioned about Jakes and hell. I would love to hear this for myself.
JLC, I would love to provide you with the tapes. Unfortunately, I do not have them. With respect to the preaching of Jesus suffering in hell, all I have is the experience of several months I spent asking him to show me from Scripture where Jesus suffered in hell. And I only have the memory of Rev Eldridge, during an invitation, saying that Jesus suffered in hell for us so we should not turn away from it. And I remember the usual vacant look in HIS eyes when I asked him why he would say that Jesus suffered in hell for our sins.
The now Reverend Godlock even discussed it during a Bible study when he was filling in for John. And let’s not forget, he still associates with speakers who preach Jesus’ suffering in hell.
My discussion with John was over five years ago. But it was not a single incident. As I said, it took place over a period of several months.
One fairly easy way to resolve this dirth of audibles is to ask John yourself. I doubt even he would have the gall to deny something that is very likely on tape. He may even say that he preached it but that he has since turned away from that. And if that is so, that is good. Unfortunately, he still associates with men and women who still preach the heresy.
There are at least two readers who can verify the mentorship thing. One was there when Jenkins declared it (he just posted a couple of weeks ago). If that reader would be so kind as provide an estimate of the date, perhaps you could order the tape (assuming it was a part of the tape section) and listen for yourself.
As I read the various comments on this site, it amazes me at how we as Christians or Believers DO NOT read the Bible. For in 1st and 2nd Timothy (the pastoral epistles), everything that is being said here by Paul addresses the very issues discussed on this site. But in Timothy, it reads “that in the last days people will heap upon themselves teachers having itching ears”. Now with that being said, a lot of the people who attend those things desiring to be rich to which the Bible also says that he who desires to be rich pierces himself with many sorrows. If someone quotes scriptures to us I believe that it is our duty to be Bereans and go and study that out so make sure that what they are saying lines up with the whole of scripture. I like this site as it is very informative about a whole lot of preachers out there that are teaching blasphemy but the people are not studying to show themselves approved, a workman that need not be ashamed, rightly dividing the Word of Truth.
Remember Jesus told His disciples to beware of the leaven of the Scribes abd Pharisees. For those Biblically challenged, that means their doctrine!