The following information was culled by Deb in Atlanta, one the my more productive set of ears out there in the land of the Kingdom of Kraziness, or, as she has referred to it - Club Newbirth.
I’m not going to add anything to this. Most of the quotes speak volumes all by themselves. If you attend this church, and you don’t have a problem with what he is saying, you need to check either your soul or your brain. One of them is deficient. If you watch him on TV and send him money, you should fall on your face and ask God’s forgiveness for wasting the money He has blessed you with. At a minimum, stop sending it to him and send it to me. I’ll tell you up front I would use it to learn how to fly. I already have a PayPal account set up and everything.
(1) “We go to church buildings that still have a mortage. Which means the bank owns God’s house. Which means that we go and make love to God in a house that Satan owns!”
God will not anoint perversion! Please hear me! Why would God add anointing which is power to our perversion?”
(Bishop Eddie Long, “Spring Praise-A-Thon,” TBN April 4, 2005)
(2) “Touch your neighbor and say, ‘You are mighty.’ See, watch this, look at me,I’m going to try and read this. We don’t want to accept that God calls us gods! Because, if you accept being, don’t, don’t,I’m not starting a cult! I’m reading Scripture. The Almighty sits in the congregation of His reflection,El (God), who is mighty. Watch this, and we can’t accept God calling us small g-o-d. Because if we were given that authority that means that we would have to take responsibility.”
(Bishop Eddie Long, “You are Mighty,” tape from his ministry)
(3) “He said, ‘Did I not say you are gods?’ Son of the living God. I didn’t say you were God. Little ‘g’. See you’re gonna go out here and just mess it up…He said if you don’t understand that you’re mighty! And Elohim (gods) stands in the congregation of El (God)…But God said if you can believe that you’re a king. If you can believe you’re my chosen. If Elohim could get you to act like El…”
(Bishop Eddie Long, TBN, Praise-A-Thon, March 29, 2004)
(4) “I am subduing! I have dominion and I walk in royalty! Because, guess what? For all you that think I just preached blasphemy, my bible says, ‘He is King of kings.’ Which means there has to be some kings. He is, ‘Lord of lords.’ Which means there has to be some lords. We are an assembly of lords and kings under the King of kings and the Lord of lords! And we’re standing with great power and ability! Elohim (gods) stands in the congregation of El (God).”
(Bishop Eddie Long, TBN, Praise-A-Thon, March 29, 2004)
(5) “That’s the reason why when you look in the mirror and you ought to say, ‘Good morning God.’ Now, I ain’t talking about your flesh. I ain’t talking about you. But inside of you there is a piece of God. And if you don’t recognize that you’ll call yourself wretched…”
(Bishop Eddie Long, “God Is After Himself,” Tape from his ministry)
(6) “I am looked at as one of the churches fathers. One of God’s CEO’s.”
(Bishop Eddie Long, The Empowerment of Kings, 2/10/2002)
(7) “My whole objective in life is to be His image, His duplicate, His witness and to show folk what He look like because, before nobody seen Him. Somebody say, ‘I want to see God.’ Here He is, look at me!”
(Bishop Eddie Long, “God Is After Himself,” Tape from his ministry)
(8) “When I got through preaching I went back in my office and I didn’t even have to have anybody tell me that Sunday, ‘Eddie Long you preached!’ I went in the mirror and said, ‘Boy, you preached! You preached today! I gave myself an offering and called in a pledge cause I didn’t have enough in my pocket!”
(Bishop Eddie Long, TBN, Praise-A-Thon, March 29, 2004
(9) “Bishop Jakes, my spiritual father, has opened up many doors in ministry and I trust that through all these relationships God is allowing us to speak to the nations through this CD.”
(Bishop Eddie Long, Interview Black Gospel.com)
Acts 20:29 - For I know this that after my departure shall grievous wolves enter in among you not sparing the flock.
Acts 20:30 - Also of your ownselves shall men arise speaking perverse things to draw away disciples after them.
Melvin,
I was wondering if there was anyway I could get in contact with Deb, since I’m from Atlanta also, it would be good to have someone to relate to while I’m here.
Let me know if thats possible or not.
Melvin’s Note: I gave her your e-mail address.
Your call.
I live in Atlanta myself and this is jaw dropping. I go to a church in Atlanta and my pastor openingly admits that Bishop Long is a close friend and mentor of his and he holds him in high regard. I would like to get Deb address so I because I am afraid for my own soul and the people I know that look up to him. These “pimps” are clever and very slick if you dont know your Bible.
Do you have any biblical proof that what he taught is wrong? Have you look at John 10:34, Pslam 82:6, and John 14:12?
John 14:12 says: “Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater [works] than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.”
He didn’t even use that verse and basically Jesus was saying that we are going to do what He could do and greater things than that because He went to His “Abba” Father. Now Jesus Himself said we would do what He did and can do and greater works than Him. So please explain how Bishop Eddie L. Long is wrong? He was actually being more modest in how he taught what he taught. I would have point blank said that Jesus Himself said we could do what He did and do greater works than even Him. Do you read and study your bible? It really doesn’t seem like it. I am not even a member of New Birth, but you are doing something God said not to do:
Psalm 105:15 [Saying], Touch not mine anointed, and do my prophets no harm.
Man…crazy. I have been blogging on this site, 2-3 months. And Melving you have been at this for a year and some change? Gosh….the SAME scripture. EVERYONE seems to know it. Psalms 105:15
With as many times I have seen it (in as little time I have been here), I KNOW your head has to be ready to explode.
The body of Christ really don’t need this and the world don’t either if we are accusing our leaders who God said don’t touch what do we have to offer the world when we respond like this we are the salt of the earth or are we really if someone offends you go to your brother thats the word&keep loving and pray for them we all are a work in progress. God Bless You !!
Deborah, the Bible demands that we publicly confront unrepentant sin in the pulpit and the church. We are commanded to judge those within the church while God judges those outside the church.
I refer you to 1 Tim chapters 3 and 5.
Antoine, the problem here is that The Sperminator teaches the verses out of context.And that leads to dangerous error indeed.
For example……….you asked about Psalm 82.
1 A Psalm of Asaph. God stands in the congregation of the mighty; He judges among the gods.
(Now Antoine………..let’s see who God is referring to as “gods”.)
2 How long will you judge unjustly, And show partiality to the wicked? Selah
(Judges. Magistrates.Rulers. Those who are charged with judging before men on God’s behalf, to render God’s justice).
3 Defend the poor and fatherless; Do justice to the afflicted and needy.
4 Deliver the poor and needy; Free them from the hand of the wicked.
(Again, the comments are directed towards those whom God has appointed to render justice…..not to EVERYBODY. Notice the words God uses. Defend.Do justice.Deliver.Free. These are duties assigned by God to judges.)
5 They do not know, nor do they understand; They walk about in darkness; (Like those who listen to Fast Eddie)All the foundations of the earth are unstable.
6 I said, “You are gods, And all of you are children of the Most High.
(Notice the wording here.It says all those God calls “gods” are children of the Most High. It does NOT say “All children of the Most High are “gods”…. as Eddie would have you believe)
7 But you shall die like men, And fall like one of the princes.”
(In other words…………be careful to deliver justice, because even though He called them “gods”, they are mortal and will face His judgement someday)
(God [Elohim] called them “gods” (elohim), because they were given the responsibility to render justice under God’s oversight. Angels are rendered “elohim” as well………because they are also set for rulership under God’s oversight.
This use of “gods” refers specifically to those in rulership. NOT TO THE CONGREGATION. Yet Fast Eddie would have you believe that God was addressing ALL BELIEVERS. He was not, as the context shows, and NEITHER WAS JESUS.
John 10:22-34
22 And it was at Jerusalem the feast of the dedication, and it was winter.
23 And Jesus walked in the temple in Solomon’s porch.
(Do you know who met in Solomon’s Porch?? The Great Sanhedrin. The rulers. The judges. Those God referred to as “gods”, because they sat and ruled under His authority.)
24 Then came the Jews (this term is ALWAYS used in the Gospels to refer to the Jewish leadership………the judges.NOT the man on the street. That is who is questioning Him here in Solomon’s Porch where they had their headquarters. The judges………..the “elohim”. The “gods”.) round about him, and said unto him, How long dost thou make us to doubt? If thou be the Christ, tell us plainly.
25 Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father’s name, they bear witness of me.
26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father’s hand.
30 I and my Father are one.
31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him. 32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?
33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.
34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
(Now, they took up stones to stone Him……….that is only in the power of the Sanhedrin to judge someone worthy of stoning. They were in Solomon’s Porch….where the Sanhedrin met……Jesus was addressing the Jewish LEADERS………RULERS………JUDGES………..as “gods” just as Psalm 82 was referring to the Jewish Leadership ONLY.
Yet, the Sperminator would have you believe that this term “elohim” referred to average “Joe Believer”.
Further, Eddie would have you believe that God’s use of the term “gods” refers to some sort of SUPER STATUS and power………rather than simply as His expression to illustrate that the judges and leaders operate under His divine authority, and render judgement IN HIS PLACE before men.Nothing more.
You see Antoine………you were suckered into Eddie telling you that this term applied to you. And that it gave you some sort of special status. He appealed to the PRIDE of his audience, and twisted the Word to do it.
THAT is the danger of men like Fast Eddie. THAT is the danger of not testing what they say against the Word. What other deception have you been, or will you be, subject to under his “anointing”??
You also took “Touch not my anointed” out of context in addition to the “gods” Scripture twisting. If you like, we can address that as well, or someone else on the site will be eager to correct you.
You wrote this to Melvin……….
“Do you read and study your bible? It really doesn’t seem like it.”
Who does it “seem like” doesn’t study their Bible again?? Hmmmmmmm……..
Don’t feel bad brother……..you’re not the only one being suckered. Most of us here were as well, once upon a time. Now, the question is, what are you going to DO about it??
8 Arise, O God, judge the earth; For You shall inherit all nations.
How is that correct? How is your interpretation correct? You forgot about this:
1 Peter 2:9
But ye [are] a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light. . .
I also see that you did not address the scripture I quoted about us doing what Jesus did and greater works than He did:
John 14:12
That’s cool though. I agree with a lot of what Bishop Eddie L. Long teaches. I do not agree with everything any one preacher says, but what he teaches I definitely agree with the most.
I know full well no one on here will address this scripture either:
James 3:9
Therewith bless we God, even the Father; and therewith curse we men, which are made after the similitude of God.
I guess James 3:9 is for the Sanhedrin too huh? And the verse I quoted about John 10:34 is not for Sandhedrin only. John 10:35 says: “If He called them gods unto whom the Word of God came. . .” Does not the word of God come to every believer? We are not talking about just Judges and Magistrates here. That’s added to scripture because what you are saying is not even in the text (refer to Revelation 22:18).
Comment by ANTOINE MASON
2006-12-08 20:36:56
How is that correct? How is your interpretation correct?
(Gary) Errrrrrr…because mine is based upon Scripture in CONTEXT and history. You and Eddie base your drivel upon…………..nothing.
(Antoine)You forgot about this:
1 Peter 2:9
But ye [are] a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light. . .
(Gary) I forgot nothing………….precisely HOW does this Scripture relate to Eddie saying we are “gods”?? Can’t wait for the next round of Scriptural Twister.
(Antoine)I also see that you did not address the scripture I quoted about us doing what Jesus did and greater works than He did:
John 14:12
(Gary) Ok Skippy…………I don’t see how this relates to Fast Eddie taking Scripture out of context and calling you a “god” though. But………I DO believe that these works are being done today. But not by fast Eddie. If they were, he would be all over TV yappin’ about it. But even where those works ARE being done miraculously, does THAT mean they’re “gods”??
(Antoine)That’s cool though. I agree with a lot of what Bishop Eddie L. Long teaches. I do not agree with everything any one preacher says, but what he teaches I definitely agree with the most.
(Gary) yeah.That’s the problem.
I know full well no one on here will address this scripture either:
James 3:9
Therewith bless we God, even the Father; and therewith curse we men, which are made after the similitude of God.
(Gary) Again, you couldn’t find context with a searchlight. Tell us Skippy………..who said these things about the false teachers of their day??
Called them blind guides………..evil…….hypocrites……..children of hell………foolsih………deceivers………wolves……..
Hmmmmmmmm…….Jesus and Paul. Well, they are stinkin SINNERS according to you, cursing men like that then blessing God. Are you REALLY this obtuse, or is somebody punkin’ me??
(Antoine)I guess James 3:9 is for the Sanhedrin too huh? And the verse I quoted about John 10:34 is not for Sandhedrin only.
WRONG!!!!! Show me from SCRIPTURE and HISTORY, not from your own opinion.
John 10:35 says: “If He called them gods unto whom the Word of God came. . .”
Does not the word of God come to every believer?
(Gary) No…….not EVERY Word of God is meant for EVERY believer. Is the Word to pastors applied to EVERY believer?? No, it’s meant for pastors. Is the Word to prophets meant for every believer?? NO, it’s meant for prophets. Is the Word of God to the Jews meant for every believer?? NO, it’s meant for the Jews.
We can LEARN from the Words of God to others, BUT THAT DOESN’T MEAN we can rip them from the context of whom He was speaking to and apply them to us. In Psalms God was talking to JUDGES and MAGISTRATES.
Jesus was talking to THE JEWS……….the Sanhedrin………..JUDGES AND MAGISTRATES.
We are not talking about just Judges and Magistrates here. That’s added to scripture because what you are saying is not even in the text (refer to Revelation 22:18).
God you’re dense………hey Skippy, I GAVE you the references FROM THE TEXT, and the references CLEARLY SHOW WHO JESUS AND GOD WERE REFERRING TO. No wonder you love the Sperminator.
The context of Psalms was to those WHO JUDGE. The context of Jesus was THE JEWS. Is this not THE TEXT?? That’s why the Bible commands us to STUDY…………to keep folks from making the errors that you and fast Eddie make.
You CAN’T TAKE VERSES out of their context and simply apply them to whomever suits you.
Keep getting your “knowledge” from pimps and TBN.
GaryV: The name, “Sperminator” is most appropriate and quite befitting. Good call!
Here ya go brother………..just to show you how ignorant the Sperminator’s exegesis is………
Jamieson, Fausset, Brown
Commentary Critical and Explanatory
on the Whole Bible
PSALM 82 Psalms 82:1-8. Before the great Judge, the judges of the earth are rebuked, exhorted, and threatened.
1. congregation–(Compare Exodus 12:3, 16:1).
of the mighty–that is, of God, of His appointment.
the gods–or, “judges” (Exodus 21:6, 22:9), God’s representatives.
Matthew Henry’s Commentary On The Bible
Ps 82:6
“………. they shall die like other wicked men, and fall like one of the heathen princes (and their being Israelites shall not secure them anymore than their being JUDGES)
John Wesley’s Explanatory Notes
on the Whole Bible
The Book of Psalms
Chapter 82
We have here the dignity and duty of MAGISTRATES, ver. 1 - 4.
The wickedness of some MAGISTRATES, and their doom, ver. 5 - 7.
A prayer to God, ver. 8.
A psalm of Asaph.
Verses:
82:1 Standeth - To observe all that is said or done there. Mighty - KINGS OR CHIEF RULERS. By their congregation he understands all persons whatsoever of this high and sacred order. Judgeth - Passes sentence upon them. The gods - JUDGES AND MAGISTRATES are called gods, because they have their commission from God, and act as his deputies.
82:2 How long - The psalmist speaks to them in God’s name. Accept - By giving sentence according to your respect or affection to the person.
82:5 They - The MAGISTRATES of whom this psalm treats. Know not - The duty of their place. Nor will - Their ignorance is wilful. Walk on - They persist: it is their constant course. In darkness - In their sinful courses. The foundations - This corruption of the SUPREME RULERS, flows from them to their inferior officers and members.
82:6 Have said - I have given you my name and power to RULE your people in my stead.
Treasury of Scriptural Knowledge
Overview - Psalms 82
1 The psalmist, having exhorted the JUDGES,
5 and reproved their negligence,
8 prays God to judge.
John Gill’s Exposition of the Bible
John 10:34
I said, ye are gods?
which is spoken to civil magistrates, so called, because of their authority and power; and because they do, in some sort, represent the divine majesty, in the government of nations and kingdoms.
Jamieson, Faussett, and Brown Commentary
John 10
34-36. Is it not written in your law–in Psalms 82:6, RESPECTING JUDGES OR MAGISTRATES.
Ye are gods–being the official representatives and commissioned agents of God.
Matthew Henry’s Commentary
John 10
Jesus walked in the temple in Solomon’s porch; so called (Acts 3:11), not because built by Solomon, but because built in the same place with that which had borne his name in the first temple, and the name was kept up for the greater reputation of it. Here Christ walked, to observe the proceedings of the great sanhedrim that sat here (Ps. 82:1);
Observe, (1.) How he explains the text (v. 35): He called them gods to whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken. The word of God’s commission came to them, appointing them to their offices, as judges, and therefore they are called gods, Ex. 22:28. To some the word of God came immediately, as to Moses; to others in the way of an instituted ordinance. Magistracy is a divine institution; and magistrates are God’s delegates, and therefore the scripture calleth them gods
People’s New Testament
John 10
34-36. Is it not written in your law. In Psa. 82. I said, Ye are gods? It was there addressed to JUDGES. Christ’s argument is: If your law calls JUDGES gods, why should I be held guilty of blasphemy for saying that I am the Son of God? Sanctified. Set apart.
Robertson’s Word Pictures of the New Testament
John 10:34-36
Another direct quotation after eipa but without oti. The JUDGES of Israel abused their office and God is represented in Psalms 82:6 as calling them (the JUDGES) “gods” (qeoi, elohim) because they (the JUDGES)were God’s representatives
The Fourfold Gospel
John 10:35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came1 (and the scripture cannot be broken)2,
If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came. Since the CIVIL RULERS of a land are ordained of God (Romans 13:1-7; 1 Samuel 24:6,7), they were regarded as God’s delegates or ministers, and as such the inspired Psalmist addresses them, calling them gods. Compare Exodus 22:28. The expression “word of God” is equivalent to “commission from God” (therefore addressed ONLY TO THOSE COMMISSIONED
Gary V….of course I don’t object to a theological education.
In fact I desire one to “hone” my ability to conceptualize the scriptures in better interpretation.
I just do not feel as if it is a mandate for spiritual authority (not stating that you do).
When degrees and such are introduced into the fold, men (for some reason) must introduce the world to their varying pedigrees to validate their “calling” or “ministry”.
(i.e. - I once read an article about JH-B’s father (can’t remember his name) and the article started off with something to the extent of…..”Such and such has taken literally the scripture….”Study to shew thyself approved”….and proceeded to talk about the mans secular and theological college education….essentially a validation to the man and his ministry….using whatever means.
Of course the education is wonderful, but the world doesn’t need to know.
That’s just my “stants”.
I agree completely. Just because someone has a “Dr” in front of his name doesn’t make him qualified to teach or lead. It’s not a substitute for a calling, and it’s CERTAINLY not a guarantee of orthodoxy!!
Worse yet are these deceivers who put a “DR” in front of their name without earning the degree……..just paid some diploma mill. That’s pure deception.
There can be NO other reason for doing that than to deceive.
Here’s a game to play…………let’s list ALL those who put a phony degree in their resume!!
I’ll start…………”Dr” Mark Chironna. Fraud.
“Dr. Paul Crouch,” alpha fraud!
NICE one Beryle……….my turn.
“Dr” Oral Roberts
“Dr” Joyce Meyers
ORU has doled out honorary doctorates to the late Kathryn Kuhlman and Rex Humbard, both accused of multiple imporprieties; the late plagiarist and false teacher Kenneth E. Hagin; prosperity teachers Frederick Price, Creflo Dollar, Marilyn Hickey, Joyce Meyer, Jesse Duplantis, Paul (David) Yonggi Cho, his wife, and Kenneth Copeland; former NFL player Roosevelt Greer; the late entertainer, Bob Hope; false teachers and founders of the Trinity Broadcasting Network, Paul and Jan Crouch. But most egregious was ORU’s awarding of honorary degrees to the following teachers who were exposed in international scandals for various instances of crookedness: Bishop Earl Paulk (who has faced a slew of sustained sexual misconduct accusations over the years); disgraced television preachers Robert Tilton and Larry Lea (who were both targets of PrimeTime television exposes by Diane Sawyer); and faith healer Benny Hinn, who has faced dozens of major scandals during the past 15 years. And there are many other lesser known false teachers given honorary doctoral degrees since ORU began the practice in 1972.
Stong point…
Connecting with that, it kind of reminds me of what Pauul said concerning a similar situation about using titles alone (i.e. teacher/preacher, Doctrate, etc) to validate a person credibility rather than the Word/lives changed for Christ and glory going to the power of Christ rather than the skill of man being the thing that validates the crediblity of their titles:
2 Corinthians 2:14-17
14But thanks be to God, who always leads us in triumphal procession in Christ and through us spreads everywhere the fragrance of the knowledge of him. 15For we are to God the aroma of Christ among those who are being saved and those who are perishing. 16To the one we are the smell of death; to the other, the fragrance of life. And who is equal to such a task? 17Unlike so many, we do not peddle the word of God for profit. On the contrary, in Christ we speak before God with sincerity, like men sent from God
2 Corinthians 3
1Are we beginning to commend ourselves again? Or do we need, like some people, letters of recommendation to you or from you? 2You yourselves are our letter, written on our hearts, known and read by everybody. 3You show that you are a letter from Christ, the result of our ministry, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts.
4Such confidence as this is ours through Christ before God. 5Not that we are competent in ourselves to claim anything for ourselves, but our competence comes from God. 6He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant–not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.
What good is it have a title to be recognized with when it’s used not for the sake of the kingdom but for moneyprofit…and recognition/prestige? What good would it be to have the title of a teacher but lack the humilty or integrity/selflessness required to accompany it (I Timothy 6:3-10)? Even if he or she has the raw talent/skill of a preacher/speaker or a teacher, what does it mean if they are preaching apart from an understanding if God’s messages/true concern for how their listerners will be affected?
Moreso, not that seminary/degrees are bad or unecessary in and of themselves (Paul himself wrote letters of introduction/reccomendation various times), but of what good to have/seek only letters of recomendation (just like many false teachers/preachers as today were doing with Paul by forged letters of reconmendation to validate their authority/reason to be heard) and to have accrediation and yet not have people whose lives were transformed by the power of the Holy Spirit operating through you/them so much that their walks would be good enough validation/reccomendation for you?!
Truly a Sad thing to see how people will fully credit and seek technique/schooling or titles for conversion in people’s lives and yet never give any consideration to the fact that it’s all the Work of the God’s Spirit in Us…again, so so sad…
these people look for titles and credits so that they can draw people to THEM and not Christ. The title “Dr.” or “LLd” is to make the product more marketable so that people that don’t know them will be inclined to give the teacher their ear and be drawn in. This will result in supporting them monetarily. Can’t you see?, this is the same strategy that the world uses to promote the sale of product. Its called “Marketing”. Thats why alot of these so-called ministries are run like corporations, (i.e. joyce meyers ministries ( http://www.joycemeyer.org/AboutUs/FinancialAccountability/BoardOfDirectors/default.htm )
Truth of God,
Real Powerful point that you made concerning one of the biggest reasons why many people wrongly seek titles to begin with. Going with what you said, if one isn’t into the ministry to see lives changed for the Good News of Jesus Christ and not intending on submitting fully to Christ’s Lordship, of course they’ll be hindered in the amount of influence they can have in drawing people desperate/hungry for the truth to themselves under the pretense that they sincernly wish to “Build the Kindgom” or “Change lives for Christ” and that they have whatever keys people need to be free from bondages of any/every kind…
For many of these supposed teachers have no true truth to offer that can change lives truly for the better, and beyond that, the truth they offer goes not further than “life improvement” in temporary terms or in the mindset of what the world considers successful instead of Godss definition of sucess: lives prepared to meet Him on Judgement Day and built upon the blood of Christ.
Moreover, seeing that they have no desire for acknowleding Truth/believing or submitting to God, the Power/Spirit of God by all which men primarily come to Him and are saved/sanctified for real by (John 6:44, Romans 8:1-14, etc) to draw souls to the Lord won’t be upon them so they can truly change people for the better….and all that they’ll have left is human effort (i.e. gimicks, man-made/self help principles, or merely knowledge/reasoning which “only highlights the our problems because it can’t provide answers without God’s eternal perspective and solution, etc.) and other things to work with….things offering nothing of substantial benefit and that apart from Christ will quickly expire/fail us in the battle to be set free from the power/death that comes from the flesh (Romans 7: 14-25)…..
Seeing that the majority of people are naturally more apt to listen to someone if they have some form of recognition/title in front of them, and seeing that they desperately need something by which to use as leverage to maintain people’s interest/audience, what better way to get people who often mean well/don’t know better to give false teachers/preachers crediblity and keep people entrapped /hindered from being aware of the Truth than to have the title of “Dr” or “Scholar” in front of the name….or even advertising a couple of rare testimonies of people who listened to them and were “blessed” so that they could seem legit in all they do (sad, howvever, that people s don’t seem to realize that miracles/improved lives and other amazing things are not necessarily always a work of God when they done alongside things inconsistent with Him/His Standard of Holiness/Righteousness==2 Thessalonians 2:9-12)!
Sad but, like you said, it truly is a matter of marketing for those who do so. Hopefully people will wake up and see/reap the consequences of sinful practices early on so they won’t choose it anymore in the future. Like the old saying goes, “How quickly would people choose not to buy into the offers of sin if the wages/costs (death) were seen clearly as well first”
Connecting with the previous post:
Matthew 21:12-15
Jesus at the Temple
12 Jesus entered the temple area and drove out all who were buying and selling there. He overturned the tables of the money changers and the benches of those selling doves. 13″It is written,” he said to them, ” ‘My house will be called a house of prayer,’[a] but you are making it a ‘den of robbers.’[b]”
14 The blind and the lame came to him at the temple, and he healed them. 15 But when the chief priests and the teachers of the law saw the wonderful things he did and the children shouting in the temple area, “Hosanna to the Son of David,” they were indignant.
17 And he left them and went out of the city to Bethany, where he spent the night.
Mark 11:12-18
12 The next day as they were leaving Bethany, Jesus was hungry. 13 Seeing in the distance a fig tree in leaf, he went to find out if it had any fruit. When he reached it, he found nothing but leaves, because it was not the season for figs. 14 Then he said to the tree, “May no one ever eat fruit from you again.” And his disciples heard him say it.
15 On reaching Jerusalem, Jesus entered the temple area and began driving out those who were buying and selling there. He overturned the tables of the money changers and the benches of those selling doves, 16and would not allow anyone to carry merchandise through the temple courts. 17And as he taught them, he said, “Is it not written:
” ‘My house will be called
a house of prayer for all nations’[a]? But you have made it ‘a den of robbers.’[b]”
18 The chief priests and the teachers of the law heard this and began looking for a way to kill him, for they feared him, because the whole crowd was amazed at his teaching.
a way to make money for upkeeping the temple
Can’t help but be reminded of how what happens on this site and other minsitries for the Truth is so similar to what happened already in the Word, where there were once those ingdignant with Jesus for damaging their “good buisness” when He began “preaching against injustice” and teaching things that “favored the poor over the rich” or ministering on the basis of love/sincerly serving instead of profit/selfishly seeking to be served deceptively under the pretense of “Worshiping God” as the stamp of approval to do so.
What’s happening today is just what happened before when Jesus began to make people angry for being lifted up more than they themselves were (i.e. the Pharisees/corrupt officials, who felt entitiled because of their “titles”)….and when He became greatly angered because of their satisfaction with good appearance…being fruitful in outward appearance only but absolutely barren on the inside like the fig tree He cursed prior to visiting the temple..and because of how they were satistified with promoting religion based on convience and having only symbolism by no true substance.
Prayerfully, unlike the people in Jesus’s day, those corrupt God’s Work from its original purpose and who seek to turn the House of God into anything but a place of Worship (i.e. “A den of thieves”, or better yet, a place of taking what doesn’t belong to you and being consumed as a thief would with what you can get or how you can satistiy your own desires without regard/honor for others or respect for God) and who hinder those who desire to Worship Him not in falsehood or sensation (flesh) but in Spirit and in Truth as we called to (John 4:23-24)….perhaps they’ll not become indignant when challenged with the Words of Jesus being lifted up above them and perhaps they’ll stop seeking to rationalize immoral practices offensive to the heart of God (just as the money changers did, seeking to rationlize extorting people coming to worship the Lord with the offerings they brought by making them buy into the over-priced sheep they couldn’t afford and keeping them from ever truly connecting with the Lord, all in the name “of convience for the worshippers” and “temple upkeep”…just like it is with many of the “Praise a Thons”/Manipluating God’s people for profit/twisting scripture all in the name of building the Kingdom/”Worship))
Rather than crowding those truly hungry to worship with “marketing”, Perhaps they’ll stop seeing church as a marketplace and choose to turn from seeing it as place to make profit (i.e.gaining personal contacts, buisness advantage, status/fame, etc) instead of acknowledig it as a place to truly worship God (not just in songs/choir but in living/submitting every aspect of one’s life and service unto Him…Romans 12:1).
Above all, rather than becoming angry when their “buisness”/profitss are challenged for the sake of profiting Christ, prayerfully they’ll begin to seek godlinesss and see it , as God sees it, for what it truly is and seek it for the right reasons rather seeing it as something to be distained or using it for the wrong reasons (I Timothy 6:3-10)…and for that matter, not seeking to their confidence in terms of what the world considers to be riches/sucess as opposed to Gods standard (I Timothy 6:11-18).
Apart from seeing it this way, and moreover apart from seeing things through the eyes of the One they claim to serve…apart from seeing not only the blessing that comes from serving Him but also the anger that comes from mocking/insulting Him and choosing not be indignant with the truth but seeing how indignant the Lord is sin…and apart from them becoming angry as well and asking God to give them the same anger He has concerning anything or anyone that supresses His Truth or defames His character…..why should they change? Apart from that awareness and the fact that we’ll have to face Him sooner or later on the issue, what hope do they have of turning from their sin and submitting to Him and beiing able to experience God’s saving? (Joel 2:11-17, Jeremiah 23:1-40, Ezekiel 34:1-30, Romans 1:1-32, Romans 13:11-14, I Corithians 5:10, I Thessalonians 5:1-11, II Peter 3:1-18, Revelation 3:14-20, Revelation 22:7-21, etc).
Proverbs 9, Proverbs 20:17
God help those in the “marketing” of His house, and prayerfully those who do will recognize the consequences/wages of their sin and have the wages be paid early so they/their followers will be truly hungry for Him….Otherwise, Till then, there goes the neighborhood”…and it doesn’t seem to be coming back anytime soon….Who knows though…
well if you can’t offer truth and sound teaching. Then all you are left with is basically a big circus. And to my sad regret, our people love it this way.
Its now all about entertainment and a “Get over message”, Shadrach, Meshak, and Abed-nego, and releasing strongholds. Nothing about Godly dicipline, shame-facedness, modesty, humility, self denial, fleeing from lust, or tempting others to lust. People aren’t challenged or judged according to biblical protocol, its - for the most part- a free-for-all. “What ever sounds good, it must be good”.
-Proverbs 1:7-
7 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge,
but fools [a] despise wisdom and discipline.
Proverbs 26:7-9
7 Like a lame man’s legs that hang limp
is a proverb in the mouth of a fool.
8 Like tying a stone in a sling
is the giving of honor to a fool.
9 Like a thornbush in a drunkard’s hand
is a proverb in the mouth of a fool.
All too true…and moreover, apart from ever facing/revering God on the issue…the starting point of all wisdom…what position do you have but to be a fool and “join the circus”? Apart from acknowleding the Lord (holding in awe/greater and more beautiful than anything els and fearing disrespecting Him)….All of the proverbs/wisdom of the Word won’t be effective. They’ll be no more effective than an paralyzed leg since they have no desire to apply what they learn/take it to heart…and they’ll only be flawling around to no avail and in danger of hurting someone else just like a paralyzed man trying to move on the ground.
Like a stone tied to sling, what benefit will it be to give them honor or privilege/responsibility and promise things like “We’re going to another level” when it won’t cause them to go anywhere? Even if truth/biblical protocal was given to them, would a foolish person who claims to want all of the blessings of the Lord but refuses to bless Him in giving their full submission be able to feel the effects/sting of the rebuke? Just like a drunk man with a thorn in his flesh, how can they change when they cannot even feel the things stuck in them that are causing them uneccessary pain/dram and that are causing them to slowly bleed to death…and how will they ever be able to remove those things before pernament damage is done since they won’t see where the Wisdom of God truly touches their lives or where they’re not allowing it to affect them?! How can many hope to ever make sober/sound decisions to change when they’re too drunk with pleasure/conviences of the flesh and immeresed in the comforts of sin and consumed with the things of the World to even care or notice the urgency of doing so (***Matthew 25:1-30, *** Luke 12:35-48 especially***, Romans 13:11-14, I Thessalonians 5:1-10, I Timothy 4:2, Titus 1:15-16, II Peter 3:10-15, and I John 2:15-17)?!
Even though God is more than willing to save/help them if they respond on His terms, since they no desire to learn from God/accept being challenged and corrected by Him, why should they continue to cry out for His help (i.e. asking for a “Breakthrough”, “Season”, “Miracle” and a “Harvest”…the main buzzwords on many Christian networks nowadays) and ever hope see Him respond, like the Word sadly makes clear: Proverbs 1:22-33
Proverbs 1:22-33
22 “How long will you simple ones [a] love your simple ways?
How long will mockers delight in mockery
and fools hate knowledge?
23 If you had responded to my rebuke,
I would have poured out my heart to you
and made my thoughts known to you.
24 But since you rejected me when I called
and no one gave heed when I stretched out my hand,
25 since you ignored all my advice
and would not accept my rebuke,
26 I in turn will laugh at your disaster;
I will mock when calamity overtakes you-
27 when calamity overtakes you like a storm,
when disaster sweeps over you like a whirlwind,
when distress and trouble overwhelm you.
28 “Then they will call to me but I will not answer;
they will look for me but will not find me.
29 Since they hated knowledge
and did not choose to fear the LORD,
30 since they would not accept my advice
and spurned my rebuke,
31 they will eat the fruit of their ways
and be filled with the fruit of their schemes.
32 For the waywardness of the simple will kill them,
and the complacency of fools will destroy them;
33 but whoever listens to me will live in safety
and be at ease, without fear of harm.”
Prayfully, seeing the crazy times we’re in, the curtains will close quick for those seeking to entertain themselves rather than entertaining God and people will see how the show’s soon bout’ to be over. Till then, like you’re saying, buy your popcorn/tickets and take a seat cause “The Circus is Here”…and it’s ain’t going nowhere soon…Who know, though…
John 14:12 - Jesus is addressing the disciples in informing them of carrying out the mission of spreading the Gospel.
The overall reference is to his time with them in the fact the chosen disciples (working in the power of the Holy Spirit) would carry the Gospel of God’s Kingdom out of Palestine & into the whole world.
THAT my friend is the “greater works”….which continues today.
As evidence of what you are saying concerning “greater works” than Jesus….when was the last time any one of us has raised an individual from the dead?
(MN: Add to that the fact that Jesus referred to John the Baptist as the greatest of prophets. I suspect I could count on one finger the number of miracles John performed. Elijah, on the other hand, was just chock full of miracles. Even his bones worked miracles. And just out of curiosity, what would be greater than raising someone from the dead? )
AMEN, Grid! In carrying out the mission of spreading the gospel, working in the power of the Holy Spirit (Mark 16:20 & Colossians 1:5-6), indeed continues today—whether by voice or letter; God hastens to perform HIS word!
The main reason no one of us has raised an individual from the dead is because we (meaning the “leaders”—false profits, liars, thieves, unlearned, & ignorant) are NOT teaching/preaching the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ. The only thing these empty clouds are preaching/teaching is how to rai$e mo’ money, mo’ money, mo’ money—another spirit, another gospel, another Jesus!
I do believe miracles are still occurring……..though when I wrote that I wasn’t really thinking along the lines of raising the dead. I guess I should have though, or else folks will continue to buy into absolute liars like Benny(I’ve SEEN the dead raised) Hinn.
God is sovereign, and if He wills, the miraculous is still available. But NOT at the waving of a suitjacket, or some numbskull yelling “FIRE!!!”.
Greater works…………works that are greater than what Christ accomplished, which could not be performed until the Spirit came?? The regeneration of a hell-bound sinner into a child of God.
Mr. Gridiron,
In what you’re saying, are you indicating that people are not raised up from the dead nowadays or that demons are not being casted out and other things the disciples did in our times? Or do you mean that the things that the disciples did are the only things that are to take place today?
Just wanted some clarification as to what you were trying to say…
Dr. Dollar! (an “honorable” doctorate from ORU)
Gary V…I do believe in miracles as well…..John 14:12 is one of many in the WoF cornerstone in which confuses an individual to believe that they posess the same power Jesus posesses. Used to soak it up.
Toward the end of John 13, and the beginning of 14 Jesus is clearly preparing the disciples for life without his physical prescence. But Jesus continues in promising that he will be with them (John 14:18) through the spread of the Gospel (the “works”).
So if we are talking POWER…..not making a supposed limp disappear…..
…it is giving sight to the blind…..raising the dead to life…..multiplying to feed thousands…..but the “POWER” that is often witnessed comes in the form of multiple offering plates and full scale buildings…..
Far from the truth.
Scriptures such as Luke 7:28 are used in the same manner…… to describe new covenant believers as “residents” of heaven (according to John 14:3)….and therefore greater than John the Baptist. That is a pretty strong declaration to teach.
Much too much.
Yup………what folks fail to consider is the fact that the Book of Acts covers a 30+ year period. The miracles documented there occur over a long time span, not in rapid succession.
So, most don’t see the fact that those miracles some are expecting as everyday events are NOT everyday events even in Acts.Couple that with the fact that the vast majority of the miracles are directly attributable to a class of Apostles that is forever closed, you can see that even at its zenith the Age of the Miraculous doesn’t compare with the lies and exaggerations of such wolves as Hinn, Copeland, Hagin, etc.
I don’t foreclose on God performing ANY miracle……….He’s sovereign, and can do as He will.
But the suggestion that it’s supposed to be commonplace is based in ignorance (which is why these wolves get away with it).
Very interesting point….really makes you re-think the way you think God’s power should work
Not negating the many miracles performed today by the Lord or the reality of demonic spiritual warefare and the power to cast them out by the Power of Christ, but Has anyone ever considered how many of the miracles which took place in the Word, like Gary V is saying, weren’t done as common place? Moreover, has anyone considered that most of the miracles were not merely for show or done for those who were already Christians?!
Not knocking the many miracles that have happened today with Christians or the powerful ways in which people were delivered from the most dire circumstances….but has anyone ever considered why many in the church are crying out for miracles to take place in the house of God for Christians/by Christians when Most of the miracles that were done in the Book of Acts seem to have been done outside the Church….and, moreover, for the explicit purpose of grabbing the attention of the unsaved, proving the power of God over that of the enemy and getting them into the kingdom of God ? (Acts 2:1-47, Acts 3:1-26, Acts 5:12-16, Acts 8:4-8, Acts 9:32-43, Acts 13:4-12, and especially Acts 16:16-34 with Paul and Silas being delivered, after delivering a girl so she could be saved, into a another dire circumstance and experienced God’s Power not so they could be free from discomforting circumstances but so they could deliver one man in need of salvation!)
For people to think that the miraculous is to be used for show/on a whim or for mere personal convience is the same as believing that one can “pimp”/buy the Power of God for however one sees fit to use it (Acts 8:9-25)….but that’s not the Purpose of The Holy Spirit and He won’t be used for any other purpose but that which He was intended for: To lead men from sin and toward God.
Curious, has anyone ever wondered what it would be like if a demon manifested on TBN and someone tried to exorcise it simply for show/convience or out of a desire to duplicate/control God’s Power? Just like it was with those men claiming the name of Christ without knowing the person, How interesting would it be to have the man call out the demon and see the demon cast out the preacher instead (Acts 19:8-20)?
How quickly would seeing that place the views of God’s power in perspective….Who knows?
the scriptures says one can have faith as a mustard seed and believe and move mountains. I believe if we are to be like GOD then why would we move the mountain if unbelievers have once seen the mountain there.
That would make them believe in GOD quickly but without suffering. There’s know joy in that if you cant see one overcome.
Ummmmmm………Mr Brown, can you restate this please?? I can’t decipher it.
Well you have earned yourself a spot on the Web by doing what you can to discredit the ministry of a fellow human being…Congratulations…..years ago I learned…two wrongs do not make a right!!!! You have a gift that has been misguided. I pray God’s mercy upon you
(MN: This is great!!! At least I now have you admitting that they are wrong to do what they do. Now all I have to work on is instilling Biblical response to that wrong in you. )
Nebulizer, perhaps you shouldn’t have stopped at those 2 things you learned and moved on to the Biblical commands to warn against these wolves?? Then even further to see how false teachers are dealt with from Genesis to Revelation……..it AIN’T pretty.
For all of you following text it is good, but to seek wisdom and knowledge directly from GOD is thee blessing. The scriptures says’ I give one this measure and another theirs that meens the only degree of agreements is with christ.
we are mostly in the flesh when we talk of others that we meet or see. So our judgement of ones character is only portioned.
The scriptures have to be understood with direct contact with our spirit otherwise we’ll be using our own fleshly abilities. ask GOD with tears of sincerity and you will be given.
Mr Brown………the Scriptures ARE the vehicle given to us by God to discern His will. God didn’t give the Scriptures so they can be ignored. The Word (authored by the Spirit, BTW) condemns the practices and character of these “ministers”, not us. The Scriptures ARE direct contact with God………in fact, they are the ONLY means of knowing whether whatever you feel the Spirit has given you is even FROM the Spirit.