Melvin,

This picture of Eddie Long should be posted on every bill board on Georgia I-20 East and I-20 West heading towards “Club New Birth” aka New Birth Missionary Baptist Church which is “not” just a church but an international corporation.

Corporation: A group of merchants or traders united in a trade guild.

Guild: An association of people with similar interest or pursuits; especially: a medieval association of merchants or craftsmen.

2 Peter 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresise, even denying the Lord that bought them…..

2 Peter 2:3 And through covetousness shall they with “feigned words make merchandise” of you: (Word of Faith/Prosperity gospel)

2 Timothy 3:2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blaspemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy.

2 Timothy 3:3 Without natural affection, trucebrakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, depisers of those that are good.

2 Timothy 3:4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God.

2 Timothy 3:5 Having a form of godliness but denying the power thereof; from such turn away.

In the Love of Christ Jesus,
Deb

You got a lot of nerve tryng to talk about the men and women of God that you don’t even know. You and everyone else need to get the mess off of their back. Bishop Thomas Jakes Bishop Eddie L. Long and every other major pastor that God has truly anointed, are blessed because God has blessed them and placed his favor upon them. You are just jelous of them. And another thing, you don’t use the holy scriptures to beat them on top of the head. And how do you know he’s not saved? and as a matter of fact, how do you know you’re saved?

(Melvin’s Note: The discussion does not depend on me knowing them. It depends on what they publicly teach/preach. I may think they are fine fellows and fellesses, but if they preach or teach heresy, they are to be rejected.

By the way, I’m not beating the pimps over the head. I’m not even talking to them. I’m talking to you, the sheep being fleeced by them. )

However , if you don’t like what they are preaching on tv,then you should have enough sense to turn it off. That is excactly what I do, I don’t even try to sit down and waste my time trying to talk about their miststakes because that is not even necessary.

And yes you did say that he was not saved. Saying that he may not be saved won’t cut it, that should not have even came out of your mouth like that.

I know this though, you surely wouldn’t say all this mess in his face now would you (MN: Yes, I would) ? And let me tell you someyhing: just because God has blessed a pastor and a church like New Birth to have a tv ministry and a multiplicity of businesses doesn’t mean that they are greedy or trying to get people’s money. You know what? Yyou becaome a pastor and walk in his shoes and see what its like to become a mega pastor.

I’m sorry you feel this way but there may be some people who act like this but not everyone. Again Bishop Eddle L. Long is blessed because God blessed him not anyone else, and I think you really need to remember that.

And one more thing as far as knowing how you got saved because I can use scripture too. I hope there was more you did than just believe on the son of God to get saved since you are on this website trying to tell people who is saved and who might not be saved!

thank you ! I thought so

Bishop Long is a benefit to the community and his flock. Because he is a successful business man he can TEACH us how to be successful and fish for ourselves. My husband and I now own several successful businesses, are almost DEBT FREE, have a wonderful marriage, our children are all straight A students, and we are HOME OWNERS - THANKS TO BISHOP LONG’s TEACHINGS and the programs that are available through NEW BIRTH! Prior to coming to New Birth I have never encountered a Pastor that loved his people so much, took time out for his people, and made sure his people were in order. It is up to us to take the information and apply it. The information is there. We can go to church and get the information or pay thousands of dollars and have to take out student loans to go to a university to get the information that we got from being a WILLING TITHE PAYING, COVENANT PARTNER, PASTORAL OFFERING GIVING MEMBER. We pay our tithes and offerings because God said so. What happens to the money is none of our concern - we reap 100 fold on everything we give! New Birth is fertile ground. And yes, the Bible says - do not touch God’s annointed!

What do you have against Bishop Long that you would take an article written by the AJC at face value anyway?

(Melvin’s Note: Your comment for starters. It’s interesting that you only talk about Long, money, and physical prosperity. Does the idea of spiritual maturity and those things eternal even cross your mind? If not, once you die, none of your “success” is going to follow you to the grave. )

Where moths and rust destroy.

Growing up in a household where we barely had running water and we were never taught how to grow in the financial aspect of our lives - physical prosperity is important. Of course, the bible says that our riches are in heaven - but there is nothing wrong with having them here on earth. In the Lord’s Prayer why would Jesus instruct is to ask for “forgiveness of our debts and forgive our debtors” (Matthew 6:12) if we were put on earth to just wait for our heavenly riches. People are more prone to listen to people with money. (Oprah) The disciples were businessmen. There is a woman that preaches down at Underground Atlanta about Salvation and end times and homosexuality and living right. Do you know her? The majority of the people either walk past her because they think she is crazy or give her money because she looks “poor” and doesn’t dress like “everyday people.” Her message is the same. Will you go out and sit on Peachtree St in front of the 5 Points Marta Station and listen to her?

Please refer to these scriptures for reference:
Genesis 13:2: Abrah was wealthy

Deuteronomy 8:18 - But you shall remember the Lord your God, for it is He Who gives you power to get WEALTH, that He may establish His covenant which He swore to your fathers, as it is this day.

1 Samuel 2:7: The Lord sends poverty and wealth

1 Chronicles 29:12, 1 Chronicles 29:28 - David was wealthy

2 Chronicles 1:11 - Solomon - wealthy even though he asked God for knowledge

Job (read the whole book) was wealthy before God allowed Satan to attack him. After he proved himself, God RESTORED his wealth.

Deuteronomy 8:18 - But you shall remember the Lord your God, for it is He Who gives you power to get WEALTH, that He may establish His covenant which He swore to your fathers, as it is this day.

Proverbs 3:9 - Honor the LORD with your wealth, with the firstfruits of all your crops.

Proverbs 10:22 -The blessing of the LORD brings wealth, and he adds no trouble to it.

Proverbs 10:15 - The wealth of the rich is their fortified city, but poverty is the ruin of the poor.

I have accepted Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior and I love him more and more everyday! I have been healed from cervical cancer - all thanks to my father in heaven. I give God all the glory and the praise. I thank God for Bishop teaching me that I can go to the throne of God for my self - that I don’t need someone to lay hands on me to be healed. Again, he taught me to fish. He’s like an earthly father to me. My biological father never taught me that.

My success matters if I have been a good steward of my earthly riches. We help people. What impact did I have? Whose life did I change?

You never answered what you have against Bishop Long personally?

Jenn,

I would have to disagree w/ you about the meaning of Matt. 6:12, It seems to me that “debt and debtors” is refering to forgive those who sin against you (or offend you),because God Has forgiven us our sins and offenses.

No where else in the text is Jesus talking about money, and if you think about it, what do we owe God??? We owe Him debt of gratitude for sending Jesus Christ to die on the Cross for us and thus getting rid of the penalty of Sin. And the way He forgives us, we need to forgive others, so we can be right in His sight.

PL

Jenn,

James 1:17 “Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and comes down from the Father of lights, with whom there is no variation or shadow of turning.”

If God is the giver of every good gift like the bible says, and according to you God has blessed Eddie Long w/a bunch of Money… so inturn a bunch of Money is a good gift from God… how do you explain all the rich people who have a bunch of moeny, who don’t know God?

I don’t think there is anything wrong w/ having money. I thank God that I aint broke and that I live a good material life. But I know from reading the “Whole Council of God” (Old and New Testaments) that I am not be caught up in the material, I am to store my treasures in Heaven. There are whole sections in the New Testament that warn us of the dangers of wealth. Let’s not forget about those either.

PL

Jenn,

PL is right about “debtors.” It is even explained by Jesus in the next verses after the Lord’s Prayer:

Mtt: 6-14-15

14″For if you forgive others for their transgressions, your heavenly Father will also forgive you.

15″But if you do not forgive others, then your Father will not forgive your transgressions.
also many prosperity preachers quote Galatians 6:7 about reaping and sowing, but let me give you verse 8:

Galatians 6:8

8 ) For the one who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption, but the one who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life.

From “sowing” money, you will eventually reap corruption.

I was especially displeased to see your church’s treatment of the president recently, (not to be political) while embracing certain moral reprobates…

(MN: Ladies and gentlemen, I have graciously granted Rev the comment. Don’t even think about pursuing the political bugaboo he just brought up. Please. )

Don’t judge a preacher by their looks; John the Baptist would’nt have been too high on your list…

SORRY~!!!!

(MN: No problem. I forgive my debtors even as God has forgiven me. )

Brothers and Sisters and readers,

I feel the need to clairify something…in an earlier comment, I said that the text in Matt. 6 didn’t have any references to money… I was speaking about the actual prayer and not the chapter. I say that because we can clearly see that later on in Matt. 6 around verse 19 &24 there are references to money/treasures…

Matt. 6:19 “Do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy and where thieves break in and steal; 20 but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys and where thieves do not break in and steal. 21 For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.

24 “No one can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or else he will be loyal to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and mammon. (mammon being money)

So there were two scriptures that dealt w/ money/treasures and how we as believers are to conduct ourselfs.

I left my Berean Express Card at home today… Berean Express, Don’t leave Home w/o it.

PL

So should we be like Abram before he trusted God or after he trusted God?

Should we be as treacherous and as much of a lay about as Solomon was?

Should we be wife stealers and murderers like David as well?

Using Old Testament guys as models for being rich really doesn’t do much to help each of us to grow. David’s value to us isn’t in the fact that he was rich. It is in the fact that he sought God, even when he screwed up royally…so to speak.

Solomon’s value to us is in his eventual observation that only God is worth pursuing, all else is simply vanity, including riches and possessions.

Even in Abraham’s wealth, we see a dependence on his own wisdom and his frustration at the fact that he had no children. But he is commended in Hebrews and other places when he began to walk his faith in God’s graciousness. And God’s biggest blessing to him wasn’t a big load of loot, it was a child of his and Sarah’s own.

None of these things has anything to do with money. But they all have to do with our relationship with God and our willingness to walk in faith rather than sight. When your pastor lays the health and prosperity template across the Old Testament, he robs you of half the benefit of the Old Testament.

I rejoice at your being healed of cervical cancer. The joy you experienced at the manifestation (see, I can use those words too) of the healing must have been even more intense that the tragedy of the discovery of the malady.

However, God doesn’t require you to have some special understanding in order to be healed. The beggar at the Gate Beautiful didn’t know Peter from the emperor of Rome. The poor slob at the pool had no idea who Jesus was. There were no “anointed teachers” to teach them any of the Word of Faith silliness. God’s graciousness does not depend on our knowledge or our relationship to some supposedly anointed teacher.

Long is a pimp who is more than willing to take advantage of you and, apparently, your circumstancs. God is gracious and loving, willing to bless you despite your foolish allegiance to your pimp. God does something, and Long tries in some way to take some credit for it. In this case, he tells you that you were healed because he taught you how to walk in divine health, or some such hogwash. God doesn’t like sharing his glory with anyone. Fortunately, He is patient and very kind.

Allow the Bible, under the illumination of the Holy Spirit, to help you understand God (as much as a human can understand an infinite being). Don’t limit yourself to Eddie Wrong, Pimpus Maximus.

Jenn, what would happen if you were to lose everything God gave you (that could happen, look at Job). Are you spiritually mature enough to get through a rough season and stand strong on solid ground or would you lose hope cuss God and walk away from the faith. What would you do? Since your interpretation of Matthew 6:12 made me cry, how would you interpret John 10:10. What does the word abundant means to you in the text? Does it mean money, riches and things or does it mean something else.

You also said that the disciples were businessmen. Did your pastor tell you that or did you read it for yourself. If they were businessmen please tell me where to find that in scripture. I thought they were fishermen, a doctor, and a tax collector. I’m not against having material things. God has blessed me with a lot of things. He gives us all things richly to enjoy but when He prospers us materially he does it to raise our standard of giving not our standard on living. You talk about the disciples being business men do you know that the apostles wouldn’t qualify for today’s prosperity gospel, they suffered for his name. Eleven out of the Twelve were murdered and the other one was exile on an island at 90 years old.

ah but you see “Pastor” Choke (sorry little vomit in the mouth there) Benny Hinn states that Job was speaking without faith and negatively confessing when he said “the Lord gives and takes away, blessed be the name of the Lord” and also when he said, “though he slay me, yet will I trust him”

bad confessions guys, lack of faith peeps…

So did Jesus lack faith when he said “all who live Godly in this world will suffer persecution”? even though he is the author and finisher of our faith?! interesting.

Melvin, you’re not going to believe this, well, yeah you will. Pimpus Maximus the Great, was here in Kansas City on the 18th and the 19th at Greater Canaan Missionary Baptist(that’s a mouthfull) in his grand pimp daddy fashion. He said to the poor congregants “Whoever has a $100 to come and offer $100″. He then read off the names on the checks “So and so gave $100, so and so gave $200″. Then he generously gave them another chance to give him some money. He says “You know why I’m rich, it’s because I give a lot”. He said “I live in a 15, 000 sq.ft house because I give”.

I had written the church a letter a couple of weeks before the Eddie Wrong would show up. I asked them if they held to the same doctrines as him, and if they didn’t why were they allowing this man to shephard their flock. No answer. I guess I should have expected that, I mean their was no right answer for them to give. (Sigh)

Sincere, how deep and arrogant is that! That church probably don’t know what Long’s doctrine is! They probably figure that since he seems to be fruitful (to the natural eye) that God is blessing him and it’s okay. Just get him in here so we can get a BIG turnout/take - oops - offering.

What’s so amazing about that is the money that these pastors are giving is the same money that the congregation is giving to them - talk about “recycling”. At my old church, my former pastor used to brag that he was the “biggest giver” in the church - how he and his wife (oops - co-pastor) gave 10% tithes and 10% offerings. How in the world could you expect anything less when 100% of their expenses, I mean down to parking/speeding tickets and tips are paid by the church? I was a trustee so after his or her offering was collected, I was instructed to take the 20% out before I gave them a check for the rest. This stuff is so widespread - it’s not just the large churches that’s being taken advantage of in the name sowing and reaping.

There are many scriptures that tells us about how to handle money but more importantly how to keep our hearts lined up and right with God in the process. A lot of teaching uses these scriptures to base “connecting to a ministry, sowing & reaping, etc.” as the basis to give when, basically, it comes down to is being a good steward and exercising discipline to manage your money, pay your bills on time, build up your credit score, etc. You don’t have to be a christian to be able to buy a new home, save money, buy nice things, take lavish vacations, etc. It’s just discipline and money management - the world does it everyday - the pimps do it better with the saint’s money. In business, they say it’s best to use “OPM? - Other People’s Money”?

2Blessed

“2″,

I was just out to lunch today and ran into one of my [former ]Assembly of God Pastor friends. He was out to lunch with his associate, and another guy. They were discussing whether or not they would have a softball team or not this year. That conversation counted as a “ministry function” and the church paid the tab.

After pastoring for three years and not getting a salary, I am 100% behind preachers getting paid…but I know for a fact that abuse like you described happens all over. (how hard is it to pay 10% on money that others give you??!!)

Those that defend the pimps quote “a servant is worhty of his hire,” but that’s why a church needs a board to oversee the financial aspects of the church. I applaud you for getting out of that situation. I completely separated myself from giving in the church, so that I never knew what people gave. That keeps me honest in the way that I deal with members. (let alone reading their names off on stage like the “Jerry Lewis Telethon”)

By the way, Melvin has an excellent essay on tithing and I recommend it. It has caused me to rethink a view that was pounded into my brain for over 10 years….

Melvin sorry I was there quoting Ga 6 etc and had not read right down to the bottom and thus repeated what was already said.

“Feed the flock, not on the flock.”

Geez it gets worse! I didn’t realise this was last year. Thats what I get for recently discovering the site.

Thanks for the welcome GaryV, I have been posting for the last week or so but using the name narclem. Thoroughly enjoying the site, the depth and maturity of the discussions and still cant fathom the templated responses of the sheeple.

Wow! A Superfly flashback. That picture pretty much sums up the pimps. Same game, different era.

and different playas too.