As I’m sure you realize, I virtually never venture into the political realm. However, I read a posting out on Facebook that just screamed for a presence on Pulpit-Pimps. I don’t know where most of you stand on Obama. The fact that you visit the site and even support much of what I do out here, doesn’t necessarily indicate your position one way or the other. And that really doesn’t matter. This posting needs to be publicized. The article was put out there on November 5, 2008.
by
Gabe Fluhrer
“How did Barak Obama win?” I was asked last night. If you’ve been on the internet at all today, you know that there are literally thousands of answers and pages of analysis to answer that question. But the Bible, as usual, gives a far different answer.
Barak Obama, the least experienced and most radically left-wing candidate in modern history just won the election of 2008 with well over 300 electoral college votes. McCain paled by comparison. But why are some people surprised? Americans voted their consciences, which are seared for the most part. We are not a nation of ideals in the moralistic use of the term. America has one ideal and one only: Autonomy. That word comes from two Greek words: “autos” means “self” and “nomos” means “law.” Americans exalt in autonomy. In fact, all human beings do, by nature. How is this so?
Consider: the big story of this election was its historic nature. The first black president was elected. So deep is the racial divide and the popular guilt over the wrongs of the past that we, as a nation, were willing to elect a man who has ties to Kenyan Marxists, domestic terrorists and thugs behind the brutal Chicago political machine. We voted our ideal: nothing is more important than making ourselves feel better, even if it means setting aside calm, rational judgment. Nothing is more important to unbelief than unity, no matter the cost. But unity is always for and against something. And apart from Christ, there is ever and only false unity.
Now, why is racism even a problem? Is it because of the terrible wrongs (and they were terrible) of the slave holders of the agrigarian South? The denial of civil rights in the mid 20th century? No, these are merely the fruits on the tree. The apostle Paul explains in his letter to the Galatians that racism is a form of self-righteousness, another of the bitter fruits of autonomy. Racists believe they are better because of the color of their skin. But Paul reminds the Corinthians that they had nothing apart from what God had given them. Self-righteousness is sin precisely because we are all undone and unrighteous. We all deserve eternal punishment. If you don’t believe that, you cannot be saved. Jesus’ harshest words were for religious folk who thought they did not need a Divine Savior.
How do we solve the racial problem? We’ve heard, even at this early hour, almost ad nauseum, that we are going to be “one” now. President Obama will solve the racial problem. President Obama will right the ship of the economy. He will bring world leaders together.
But consider again: the Tower of Babel (Gen 11) is the account of God scattering the people by confusing their language. Why? Because of their autonomy: they wanted to make a name for themselves apart from God, just like their forefather of a few generations prior, Adam. Since then, the world has been divided, proud, self-righteous and racist. Has any political figured solved the problem? Hardly. And they never will.
The only solution to racial unity is found in the book of Acts. There, contrary to the mystical and fantastic interpretations of modern “tongue-speaking” churches, God plainly pours out the Holy Spirit in the form of tongues of fire to enable the Apostles to preach in known, understandable languages to the crowds gathered for the Feast of Pentecost. This is the undoing of Babel. As God scattered the nations for their autonomy in Gen 11, now He gathers them because Jesus has died, risen again and paid the price for all His people’s sins. He gathers, by His grace alone, those who were once autonomous and draws them with cords of love to true unity around the Gospel.
So how does unity come? According to God speaking in Acts, through the preaching and belief of the propositional truth of the Gospel. Unity is around the Cross, the bloody spectacle of God’s wrath against human autonomy and God’s grace to wretches like us. The unity produced by human beings will always be false, temporary and Satanic because we wish, like the ancients on the plain of Shinar, to make a name for ourselves over against the Creator. Unity apart from Christ is an illusion because autonomy still reigns and will work itself out in our lives. Always.
Obama (and probably most so-called conservatives) reject Genesis as literal history, and probably Acts too. the vast majority of people think the Bible is a myth. Ideas, however, have consequences. This is why, like other radically left-wingers before him, Obama will grasp at power and advance Statism. This is because if we reject our Creator, we will replace Him with another. In world history, that something is the State. This is so because, as the Bible clearly reveals, our Maker is our Savior (cf. Isaiah 46:3, 4). Hence, rejecting the Triune God, there is the push for government control, from the cradle to the grave. Who will be sovereign - God or the State? Without being overly simplistic, such is the tale of world history.
What’s the solution? The repudiation of all forms of autonomy. God is sovereign and we are not. Salvation is God’s gift, merited for the elect by Jesus Christ. The Bible is God’s Word, without any error and the only authority; we have only derivative authority.
These were the battle cries of the Protestant Reformation. One secular historian properly noted that John Calvin is rightly called THE founding father of America. The ideas of Calvin, Luther and the other Reformers lead us to the technological advances, republican (not the political party) government, economic prosperity and all the things we enjoy in the now declining West. Their ideas were drawn from the Bible, God’s self-revelation, alone. Thus, they worked.
We have turned our back on this heritage and are we now surprised that God has given us over to what we have rapaciously begged Him for?
So why did Obama win? Because we wanted him to. We deeply resent the fact that we do not control the universe. Anyone who offers even a glimmer of hope for taking care of us, apart from the Triune God, we run after because we love to have it so, just like the Israelites of old.
The solution is repentance and faith. So let us neither be surprised nor daunted, if we believe the Gospel. For God still reigns, Jesus is still the only true King and the Holy Spirit will still use His Word to convict sinners and bring them to that ever-growing throng that will, in perfect unity, sing:
“We give You thanks, O Lord God Almighty, the One Who is and Who was and Who is to come, because you have taken your great power and reigned. The nations were angry and Your wrath has come.” (Rev 11:16b).
Great article! I saw several great articles yesterday from people who understand the character of man and the character of God. They are in so much contrast.
Here are the verses I was reminded of yesterday:
I Samuel 8:6-20
But when they said, “Give us a king to lead us,” this displeased Samuel; so he prayed to the LORD. And the LORD told him: “Listen to all that the people are saying to you; it is not you they have rejected, but they have rejected me as their king. As they have done from the day I brought them up out of Egypt until this day, forsaking me and serving other gods, so they are doing to you. Now listen to them; but warn them solemnly and let them know what the king who will reign over them will do.”
Samuel told all the words of the LORD to the people who were asking him for a king. He said, “This is what the king who will reign over you will do: …… and you yourselves will become his slaves. When that day comes, you will cry out for relief from the king you have chosen, and the LORD will not answer you in that day.”
But the people refused to listen to Samuel. “No!” they said. “We want a king over us….”
We have not change in all these years.
Thank you God, for the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. Thank you for your mercy and grace. May this country repent before you and once again acknowledge that you are the King of Kings.
Have alleged Christians worked so hard in the past to cast a president elect as an enemy of God? Is this happening so much in “churches” because Obama is a black man?
(mn: As I said ladies and gentlemen, accusations of racism will continue. It’s the standard knee-jerk reaction. And yes, Bill Clinton was villified. So was Abe Lincoln. So was Nixon, etc, etc., etc. Rather than behaving as if history started when you became aware, try doing just a little reading. Just a little. And actually, no one is painting him as an enemy of God since ALL unsaved are an enemy of God. He is simply an enemy of God with a lot of policy plans that are really bad. Have previous presidents promised to authorize payment of abortions as a part of foreign aid? Have previous P-Es shown themselves to be amenable to the legalization of homosexual marriages? )
Don’t look for secular leaders to be pastors. Your pastor hopefully is at your church. World leaders are just that. The U.S. government is not a theocracy, but thank God, He is still in control.
This is not just about what the people wanted. God is in control of this thing. Obama is not my savior, but he is my choice as president. And even if McCain had won, I would have supported him. These people cannot help me with my walk with Christ, but they can certainly do something about these taxes and these economic problems. That’s all I need them to do–take care of political things, not spiritual things.
(MN: Ah yes. The new mantra is: God is in control - shut your mouth. Don’t you understand that often political things get intertwined with the political? )
Political conservatism does NOT equal Christianity.
What one believes, dictates how they will govern. People try to emphasize that they “should” be separated, but it is an impossibility.
I have a couple of questions: If John McCain (a man who is in an adulterous second marriage) were elected all would be right? I know people personally who have had abortions, sold drugs, abused drugs, and a whole lot of other unsavory things… does that mean I agree with abortions, and drug abuse? Was Jesus a left wing radical (I mean look at who he “associated” with)?
This nation even in its conception was wicked. Think about it, men just showed up and took the natives land… was that Godly? These same men went to another nation, and stole actual human beings, bound them up, and bought them to this country, and sold them like horses, and chickens… was that Godly? I could go on and on.
A few more questions, and I’ll quit: Where in the scriptures does God say he is “Triune”? Where in the scriptures is the word trinity? I do recall a scripture where God says “hear o Iseral, your God is one”
Melvin,
Since when did the Founding Fathers become an authority to Christians?
After giving this article more thought, I think I was wrong in my previous comment. The author did good work, but he himself admitted that the Founding Fathers made no provision for the poor. Not so in the Torah. Old Covenant Law made provision for the truly needy, but also contained warnings about worthless people.
Many politically conservative church folk (I include myself in this sin in the past) have trusted the Constitution for freedom and a strong American economy for prosperity. Biblically this is sinful. We are to look to the Father for our daily bread and see prosperity as unusual. In fact, all who wish to live godly in Christ Jesus ought to expect hardship wherever they go and wherever they live. If we aren’t persecuted we aren’t His. On the other hand, Republican Christians form political action committees to reform government to protect their freedom to prosper and Democrat Christians form organizations to protect their rights, even at times their “right” to the fruit of someone else’s labor.
Perhaps the whole assembly is in wrong. Neither left, nor right, but back to Scripture should be our guiding principle.
In Christ,
Phil Perkins.
Phil Perkins, you hit the nail right on the head…
Hi,
I have to say two things, one I agree with Phil regarding the Biblical mandate to care for the poor. The focus during this campaign was on the “middle class”, but I cannot recall Scriptures that specifically refer to the middle class, but several that relate to the poor. I myself am a moderate independent, but have had to entertain a question from a Democrat when i argued with her about abortion. She asked if Christians cared so much about protecting life, why were they against providing care for children once they were born? She sees the policies upheld by many Republicans that are counter sex education, abortion, child health insurance and WIC. But we cannot have it both ways. We cannot be afraid to teach our children about the stewardship they are to have over their bodies as the Holy Spirit’s temples. Nor should we be suprised when we ban sex education in schools, but fail to teach children ourselves and discover that they’ve become pregnant. Nor should we be suprised that children are in no financial position to support children of their own and will need OUR financial support to care for children of children. My Democratic sister stated that to the outsiders, conservatives and Republicans are talking out of both sides of their mouths, and appear inconsistent and selfish, and not as concerned about life as they claim to be. I have to say she made a good argument.
Two, this is your site and you have the right to use it how you will. However, I can go to 1000 blogs and see a discussion about our recent president elect. But your site is only one of a few who will take the time to expose tomfoolery and pimpery in the pulpit. It’s those posts that are most useful to me.
Bishop 612,
You said, “Where in the scriptures does God say he is “Triune”?”
ANSWER: Pretty much everywhere if you care to
read.
So where does it say that Jesus denied claiming to be God since He was repeatedly charged with that and was killed for it?
ANSWER: No where.
So where in Scripture does it say the words “God” and “one”?
ANSWER: No where. It wasn’t written in English, but the concepts are there, aren’t they?
Where in the Scripture are we forbidden to smoke marijuana by name?
ANSWER: No where, but the concept of sobriety (though not the actual word) is there, isn’t it?
Start with Genesis and read of the “Spirit” moving upon the waters God created. Right there we see the first indication that God is both one and more than one. Then go to “our image”. Then go the same passage Jesus to claim godhood to the Pharisees–Paslm 110. John 1 names Jesus as God and eternal from the beginning.
If you care to know,
Phil Perkins.
Bishop, rather than go through all the discussions that have taken place earlier, go here and work from there.
And as I say in the article, try to avoid the knee-jerk reaction of quoting Deuteronomy. Instead, address the commentary on the issue of “God is one.”
Melvin,
It’s not going to matter one bit to Christians on this site or elsewhere what the views (political or morally) concerning Obama are. Why? Because they will justify their stamp of approval for voting for him no matter what. Whether they will admit this or not, most black Christians voted for Obama based on race and race alone. They continue to ignore this mans morals based on the Word of God. If you vote for someone, then you are supporting what they stand for. It’s simple. You can’t say you believe one point and ignore the more important matters of the law. God is not the author of confusion, and there is alot of confusion going on (with believers) concerning Obama. God does not put men in office that go against his Word. He (God) had nothing to do with it. It’s what the people wanted, and that’s what they got. Christians who voted for Obama should be on there knees repenting. You can’t serve two masters. Oh, and by no means think that I voted for McCain either. I did not, and can not vote against the Word of God. Look out people, judgement must first begin in the house of God.
Darla…read Daniel 4:17. God does choose the leaders. Also study Israels Kings, even in the divided kingdom…there were good and bad…God set them up and down…and it applies in every nation…and to say that most black Christians voted for Obama based on race alone is an ignorant statement. I suppose I could argue that most white Christians voted for McCain based on race alone but that would equal the stupidity of your assertion. You imply that black Christians don’t pray, and fast for answers regarding presidential races, and the like. I may not stand for everything that Obama stands for nor did I stand for everything that McCain stood for…yet I knew in my heart after prayer that McCain was not the choice for this time, by my vote. Greed, covetousness, deception, dishonesty, and many works of the flesh by may people in positions of power and influence lead to my vote for a change. As for people getting what they wanted…even God still chose King Saul, and David, Solomon, etc…so God had plenty to do with it…the key is what is the shift in the spirit? Voting for Obama needs no repentance, nor does voting for Bush, Clinton, Bush, Carter, Nixon etc. We as Christians seek a city not made with human hands, who’s maker and builder is God. God has only made one race, and it is the human race, no matter the hue…as pollyannish as that sounds. You are correct about judgement first beginning at the house of God, and that means you, no matter your vote. God wants CHristians in every aspect of employment…politics, athletics, the arts and sciences, education, law, consruction, etc…why? Because the kingdom of God does not come with observation, the kingdom of God is within you…spread the gospel where God places you. Obama is in need of as much prayer as Bush needed, no more, no less. Repent if you don’t pray for him.
To Yeahwecool: What? You totally contradicted your position for voting for Obama. A double-minded man is unstable in all his ways. You stated you don’t stand for everything that Obama does, (and McCain either) yet after “prayer” you knew that McCain wasn’t the choice, but Obama was? Did you not hear yourself? So in essence you are saying that God put Obama in office, (due to you telling me to read Daniel) and other presidents. Not so. If you read 1 Samuel you will realize that the “people” wanted a leader. God allowed it. You will never convince me that God put immoral men in office. A kingdom divided against itself can not stand. Obama is simply ushering in the agenda of the Anti-Christ, and you are a part of that. Don’t bother to dialogue with me.
You are right Darla, black christians need to repent for voting fo Obama. I did not vot McCain either, in fact I did not vote all. It is all madness to say the least. Our people basically worship Obama. the historic event of him becoming president is something and I will pray for his salvation in the white house as wellas his family and cabinet.
Righter wonders why sam felt the need to say “Black” Christians need to repent when the most appropriate way to assert your point of view would have been to say “Christians” need to repent and leave it alone. This statement is written to say that one group needs to repent while the other doesn’t.
BTW-do you know that “more” Whites” voted for Obama than Blacks? Secondly, do you realize that this translates into more White Christians voted for Obama than Black Christians simply because it was more of them to start with?
Righter isn’t saying that she agrees or disagrees because the race (presidential that is) is over and it is now time to move on. My vote (and everyone else’s) is a personal and private choice and I for one don’t get into political debates because people do have the right to vote for the candidate of their choice as per the Constitution.
The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any state on account of race, color, or previous condition of servitude.
— Fifteenth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution (1870)
The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any state on account of sex.
— Nineteenth Amendment (1920)
The right of citizens of the United States to vote in any primary or other election . . . shall not be denied or abridged . . . by reason of failure to pay any poll tax or other tax.
— Twenty-fourth Amendment (1964)
The right of citizens of the United States, who are eighteen years of age or older, to vote, shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any state on account of age.
— Twenty-sixth Amendment (1971)
Let us also remember that the Popular vote does not elect the President.
Next, who is “our people” and who worships Obama? In other words, names and numbers please because anything short is mere opinion that is unworthy of merit.
You tell him, or her, Righter…
Darla:
Whether they will admit this or not, most black Christians voted for Obama based on race and race alone. They continue to ignore this mans morals based on the Word of God
Righter asks Darla to please provide statistical evidence to support the assertion of “most Black Christians”. In addition, please provide demographics to state exactly who and where they are.
Secondlly, please advise on how you arrived at the conclusion that “anyone” had ignored “anything”. Did you conduct personal surveys? If so, are they readily available for public review as are your comments?
Or did you obtain this information by hiding in the voting booth?
Did you commit postal fraud and read my absentee ballad?
Righter has said all of this to say she is Black and Christian and you (or anyone else) have no clue who I or anyone else, regardless of ethnicity or religious persuasion, voted for and why, unless they told you. Even then, there is a margin of error because no one has any obligation to relay any information regarding voting preferences which BTW, was stipulated by the “Founding Fathers”, whatever that means…Father to who? Which in itself is a topic for discussion…
Righter is feeling better now–:-)
Come, let us reason…
(MN: Melvin didn’t realize how much Melvin missed Righter’s commentary! Melvin is glad to have Righter back and hopes she is fully recovered from her illness. )
Righter says thanks and tells Melvin she missed him too!
To you Righter: You asked if I did some type of survey or statistical evidence of the blacks voting for Obama? In fact, I did. It may not be to your satisfaction, but I have asked so many (black) Christians why they are voting for Obama, and in their reply…..they couldn’t give me a logical, valid, or moral based reason for their vote. So, it concludes to me that their vote was solely based on race. Also, I had a Christian girlfriend to ask me what’s wrong with voting for him because he’s black? Do I need to travel across the country to get a written statement from the people I’ve talked to just to appease your statistical question? I think not. It’s obvious through some of the statements made on this site that Christians put their personal convictions on the back burner just to see a black man elected. You can’t serve two masters. Now, whether I answered you question or not, I will not get into a continued dialogue with you concerning this matter. We are obviously not on one accord. (Which is sad for the body of Christ)
Righter says this still doesn’t account for the “most Black Christians” comment because you did not talk to “most”, you only talked to a small portion which is not enough to draw any real conclusions because of the sample size.
Nice try-but Righter says it’s insufficient…
If black folks need to repent for putting Obama in office, then those white folks, latinos, and others, need to repent as well. Likewise, you need to repent for being so shortsighted, myopic, and borderline bigoted in your views.
Calling names does not an argument make. What was shortsighted, myopic , or bigoted in Righter’s statement??
Better yet, instead of making us guess, why don’t you tell us why YOU voted for Obama in light of his promotion and support for that which the Bible calls abomination (every form of abortion imaginable, homosexual unions)??
Seriously, I would really like to know the rationale employed to, on the one hand claim Christ,and on the other hand vote for someone who promotes things which Christ calls abominations.
I’m not trying to be confrontational or aggressive. I’m really curious. Help me understand your thought process in light of your stated beliefs, which oppose the policies which Obama advocates.
Gary V knows that Righter doesn’t not answer his questions.
However, she hasn’t said who she voted for because it’s none of anybody’s business.
In like manner, she’s not arguing for either candidate one way or the other because all voters have the right to vote for the candidate of their choice.
Like she’s always told you and maybe one day you will finally “get it”, any conclusion you come to is fine-but the fact of the matter is you will never know what her ballad indicated–:-)
Sorry-this was not directed to Righter
Sorry Righter, I was addressing Seekerman. And I’m sincerely not trying to be argumentative. I really want to understand the thought processes involved.
(MN: Seekerman, the format you’re using is long, too long. Figure out another way of responding. )
-Calling names does not an argument make.
*I never suggested otherwise, so what are you talking about?
*I never suggested otherwise. I think you may need to get a grip.
If you bothered to read, instead of being full of political venom, you would see that I WAS DEFENDING RIGHTER, not opposing her.
-What was shortsighted, myopic , or bigoted in Righter’s statement??
*I don’t know, you tell me. Obviously you’re my abreast of the situation, seeing as how, AGAIN, I didn’t even address Righter in such a way. I think I was going after Darla or some other person who said that black folks ought to repent for voting for Obama.
-Better yet, instead of making us guess, why don’t you tell us why YOU voted for Obama in light of his promotion and support for that which the Bible calls abomination (every form of abortion imaginable, homosexual unions)??
*This is why I said that you ought to get a grip, instead of being full of hateful political venom, for if you read my other posts (which you’re not really obliged to, but it is something that I do, before I zone in on someone, in attack mode), you will see where I admitted not voting for Obama.
Again man, you must get a grip.
And as far as homosexual unions, well-Obama is against gay marriages, and supports the same kind of civil unions that Sarah Palin and John McCain supports.
Oh, but I guess it’s alright with them, seeing as how they’re anti-abortion?
And as far as the abortion thing goes-are you sure you falling over the deep end? I mean seriously? Can you produce evidence/proof where he’s even supportive of late term abortion, or abortions of all kind?
And even if he is, that’s not telling me much about his sinful ways, no more than it is telling me about John McCain who doesn’t believe in universal healthcare, an increase in the minimum wage, etc.
To me, those issues are just as important, or near as important as the abortion issue.
-Seriously, I would really like to know the rationale employed to, on the one hand claim Christ,and on the other hand vote for someone who promotes things which Christ calls abominations.
*Folks for centuries have voted for sinful men, who believed in, and allowed all types of ungodly acts, and many christians didn’t have problems voting for these men.
You want the rationale, the rationale is that when you choose a leader of a country, that is a pluralistic society, the person you’re choosing to lead may, or may not be regenerated. Likewise, there will be issues that you may, or not agree with, but you look at the broader landscape, and not relegate yourself to being a single issue voter.
-I’m not trying to be confrontational or aggressive. I’m really curious.
*Well that’s fine and all, but I’m just going to let you in on a secret, and that is on up until now-I’ve been handling folks with kid gloves.
But we shall see as time progress. That may not be a Godly tactic.
-Help me understand your thought process in light of your stated beliefs, which oppose the policies which Obama advocates.
*You’ve repeated the same question in so many ways, to where now you have me confused. Just what are you asking?
The world cheered for Obama because the world is tired of dealing with white people who think that they are better that everybody else. Obama can not give you world peace. Neither could McCain.
Politics will remain politics but just maybe Obama will make some needed changes. If all of you christian men and women would pray for the leader of your nation and stop complaining about what you think he’s gonna do for the next 4 years.
How many people were glad because he’s a black man? How many people were sad because he’s a black man? Me? I’m tired of white folks. And you can call me what you wanna.
Well since Obama is black, may be i’ll finally get that $20,000.00 check in the mail, or he will pay my rent for a year, or I will get that promotion to Vice president on my job. I mean the scriptures say that “All things are possible through Christ who strengthens me” Phillipians 4:13, then it shouldn’t be an issue for Obama to supply my every need since he is the “Savior” http://www.inobamawetrust.com/admin/AdvHTML_Upload/inObamaWeTrust_bill_crop_5.png
Cedric,
I can understand being tired of the status quo but if you’re a Christian, that “white folks” issue has to go. And the same thing goes for Caucasians with their “black folks” issue.
You are planning on entering Heaven, right? Have you sat down and really given thought to what Heaven will be like? There will be no segregation whatsoever by race.
Check your heart, okay? For real. That’s not going to fly. Talk to the Lord about the frustration but do not allow that garbage to sit in your heart. It does you no good to become just like the people you’re complaining about. Be a Christian even when others aren’t. The Lord is well aware of all slights and insults. Do not allow this tool of Satan to affect your walk before Him.
Take care,
Walks
There isn’t any segregation there. God is no respecter of flesh so I cannot imagine what you are thinking over there - if in fact you’re actually sitting down and thinking through your positions.
OK Cedric……..I want to call you an ignorant racist who just denied the faith. Thanks. I feel better now.
Jam 2:1 My brothers, show NO PARTIALITY as you hold the faith in our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory.
James 2:8 If you really fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” you are doing well.
Jam 2:9 But if you show partiality, you are committing sin and are convicted by the law as transgressors.
“I have a couple of questions: If John McCain (a man who is in an adulterous second marriage) were elected all would be right? I know people personally who have had abortions, sold drugs, abused drugs, and a whole lot of other unsavory things… does that mean I agree with abortions, and drug abuse? Was Jesus a left wing radical (I mean look at who he “associated” with)?
This nation even in its conception was wicked. Think about it, men just showed up and took the natives land… was that Godly? These same men went to another nation, and stole actual human beings, bound them up, and bought them to this country, and sold them like horses, and chickens… was that Godly? I could go on and on.”
Exactly Bishop. This is why I find it so strange for some christians to gratuitously critique and dissect Obama, with the implication that he’s a type of Anti-Christ, whereas you had carnal men holding the office of the presidency in previous years, who were engulfed in all types of sin and devilishment.
As far as the rest of your post, well-I have no comment, at least for right now…
if Obama and McCain equal “evil” and “the lesser of two evils,” maybe we should have voted for Bob Barr, even if he wouldn’t have the chance to win. the key is to vote for the glory of God, not for pragmatic reasons.
I hear what you’re saying, however, why does it appear as if such concern is being expressed now, whereas you’ve had in the past, droves of ungodly men in the whitehouse?
Seekerman……….ever heard of Bill Clinton?? Similar policies (though not as radical) as Obama.
Yeah, HE got a pass from Christians. I believe our “concerns” were expressed vehemently and consistently,were they not??
It’s NOT a black/white issue. It’s a professing Christian who tramples on God’s Word issue in both cases.
Seekerman, I agree with you 100%. No matter who’s President, the USA is still a sinful nation (along with every other nation on the face of the earth) and has had a far from innocent past.
Natural,
Amen. As a young Christian I went to churches all the time with US flags in the sanctuary. This seemed wrong to me even way back then. If we are there to worship (to show admiration and fidelity to God) why do we have a symbol of admiration and fidelity to something else there?
Isn’t that like bringing a picture of an old girlfriend to your honeymoon?
Phil.
Bishop612, I agree with the first part of your comments abot the ‘what ifs”, but the triuinity of Gos is evident in the scriptures…one clear example is the baptism of Christ..Son in water, Father speaking, Holy Spirit descending as a dove…and there are more inferences, time limits me from stating more. Modern parable…someyhing earthly to convey something heavenly: Water, steam, ice is 3 manifestations of the same substance. Egg shell, Egg yolk, egg white…again, 3 that are one…lastly, peanut shell, peanut skin, peanut…also 3 that are one. The word trinity is not in the bible…well the word bible is not in the bible…airplane, computer, car, gun, agnostic, atheist…all, not in the bible….yet they exist.
Now, on the election…Daniel 4:17 is clear that God chooses the leaders in the kingdoms of men, whether good or bad. I do not agree with the claim that Obama does not literally accept Genesis or Acts, unless it is stated by him. As for stating ‘Why Obama Won’, the implication can be made of every president from George Washington to the present…and even implied within every democracy. Theocracy will only come when Christ is ruling as King of Kings, until then…Daniel 4:17…and this applies whether McCain or Obama won. Why he won is because he is the choice of God for this present darkness…whether for good or evil. Prayerfully he will have Christians interceding for him to have wisdom, knowledge and understanding in the decisions made from his position as president.
Let’s remember what the prayer should be:
I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, [and] giving of thanks, be made for all men;
1Ti 2:2 For kings, and [for] all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.
1Ti 2:3 For this [is] good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
1Ti 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
Why haven’t any of these evangelical or apologist talked about John Mccain divorcing his first wife to get with the one he has now?
(MN: They have - and do. But his divorce isn’t the issue. Abortion, socialism, unilateral diarmament, homosexual “rights” and several other things are the issue. By the way, it’s not “Oh no there’s a Black guy in the white house” it’s “oh no, there’s a socialist in the white house.” Try to get it through your fairly obtuse head - it’s not about race. Again - it’s not about race. It’s about America, our freedoms, and his threat to those freedoms because folks like you refuse to look at the issues and attempt to paint everything in terms of race. The poverty pimps have done that. The Democrats have done that. Idiot guilt ridden whites have done that. And now, Obama, with his Alinski inspire and Ayers powered Marxism is succeeding in doing it. )
They want to talk about obama’s church and rev. wright but no discussion of mccain’s theology or lack of it.
(MN: McCain’s pastor isn’t out condemning America. He’s not out there associating with wackos like Pfleger and others. His church isn’t an issue. His pastor isn’t an issue. He didn’t attend a place for twenty years and then deny knowing what the pastor is preaching about. You talk about issues, not non-issues. After all, no one talks about my nephew who isn’t in jail. Or the one who didn’t rob a bank. Or my son who didn’t steal the car. You speak of issues, not non-issues. )
Also, in regards to segregated churches in america, can one of you apologists do a study on this issue because no one wants to talk about how the bible was misquoted to justify slavery here in the united states.
(MN: The key here is “misquoted”. No one is defending the action. If it’s wrong for Whites to misquote, it’s wrong for Black Liberation Theologians to misquote as well. This isn’t an issue and doesn’t have anything to do with Obama and his Marxist views. )
if these apologist and evangelical heroes can go back and tell you about the pagan orgins of easter and christmas, then why this issue be addressed? the reason why there are black churches is because of the segregation in this country that was initiated and controlled by white people. White people did not want to around black people let alone worship with them in the same building. well the black people had do what they had to do but you dont hear this in the news or on these religious radio programs.
(MN: Actually, it is on the news and radio and papers, etc.
However, it’s fairly obvious (to use the basic approach of liberals) that you are a racist more interested in dividing that you are a Christian interested in uniting with your white sisters and brothers. As a good Obamatron, do you really think
NobamaLord Obama the Most Merciful (LOMM for short) would be pleased with your divisive and mean spirited words? We have to get rid of the polemics and seek to understand each other. Your truth isn’t necessarily my truth. What I think is right isn’t necessarily right for you. In the words of LOMM, I don’t have the right to say you are wrong. And sister, I’m just not seeing that you are trying to understand this. We’re going to have to make room for you at one of the re-education camps your increased taxes are going to pay for. )im not a racist. I did not vote for obama or mccain. So how is obama any worse than ronald regan or george bush senior or george w bush? the bush family has ties to the bin laden family and has done buisness with them but no one is condeming them for that are they? I have never heard people try to interject biblical principles in a election as i have in this one.
If obama is so horrible, then please tell me what president of this country has lived up to the scriptures in the bible that you guys speak about. please tell me what president of this country who has been righteous in the eyes of GOD. If you participate in the election, the people that you vote for will have flaws or something that you disagree with and something that you agree with. So then if you voted fo obama (which I didnt.) does that you you are evil in the eyes of GOD? By the way, mr oh no is my title personal title and not the president’s.
Melvin, I’ve actually heard Dr. Wright speak in person around 9 times (he comes to Houston almost anually to a preacher friend of mines church)… and of the 9 times I’ve heard him speak, only once did his message take an aggressive tenor for about 45 seconds. Now the media would have us to beliefe that the ONLY thing Wright espouses is hate, and that simply is not true. Just by dumb luck, it is entirely possible for Obama to have gone to that church for 20 years and not have been aware of some of the moments in Wights messages. Obama admitted himself, that he did not have the best church attendence habbits. So if Wright spoke in an inflamitory manor every nth sermon, it is possible that Obama wasn’t there on those given Sundays. Also lets say Obama heard 100 messages, and say 8 of those messages had some aggressive moments… it would be easy to just sort of write those off. Further more, what was so wrong about what Wright said? He said “God Bless America Naw, naw, naw… God D- America”. America doesn’t bless God, why should He bless America?
(MN: I guess you’re right. It would be bad if he espoused hate ALL the time. Hmmm. Let’s see. I guess occassionally espousing hate is okay. So Calypso Louie is okay since he doesn’t espouse hate all the time. WHy, when he spoke at Ebenezer AME several years ago, I didn’t hear him say one hateful thing.
And I guess occassionally espousing pro-homosexual views from the pulpit is okay. And racist views, that’s okay too as long as it’s only done occassionally.
Let’s say Obama is as careless with the welfare of this nation as you say he was with Reverend Wright. My conclusion? We’re screwed. Try again. )
Great points Bishop.
Melvin, I certainly don’t agree with every thing Dr. Wright has said (particularly the homosexual comments), but contextually, he’s not racist nor hateful. I believe aggressive is a correct description of some of his comments, but hateful and racist are not the correct terms/words to use to describe him.
Peace and blessings
(MN: I guess you’re right. It’s okay to occasionally spew hatred from the pulpit, as long as I don’t do it too often. Now all I have to figure out is - how much is too often.
Sorry Tee Jay, but out of the mouth, the heart speaks. If hate comes out [even occassionally] it speaks of what’s in the heart. Otherwise I shouldn’t be condemned because I diddle with women other than my wife if I only do it every once in a while. )
Is there any one who since they’ve been a Christian been 100% lovey dovey when it comes to their speech?
What was hateful speech that came out of the mouth, because I don’t see/hear it that way…not contextually anyway.
Has he said that he hates him or her; this or that?
(MN: Preparing a sermon is significantly different than day to day relationships. Give it up TJ. Spewing hate from the lectern is neither acceptable nor excusable. Stop trying to justify his behavior by comparing to things simply not comparable.
Or are you really trying to say that Louis “Calypso Louie” Farrakhan talking about a dirty religion, white devils and the such are only occasional and therefore excusable? )
Sorry Melvin.
I don’t see it that way. Again, what hateful thing did he say or preach, as you put it.
(MN: Calling the United States the “U S of KKK A”, accusing the government of initiating the AIDS virus, claiming we deserved the attack on 9/11. )
Are you implying that it’s okay to be “hateful” in day to day relationships?
(MN: Quite the opposite. Bishop is making it sound as though it’s okay to be hateful occassionally. )
And that’s kind of a stretch for you to say that I’m justifying quotations from LF.
(MN: Not justifying spercific quotations. Rather, according to Bishop, the standard seems to be “occassional isn’t bad.” Louie doesn’t always spew hate. So according to Bishop Louie isn’t hateful. )
Ok Melvin.
I’m not trying to keep this one going, but I disagree with your assessment of the speech being hateful. It was offensive to some, but not hateful.
Calling the US the US of KKK A is a playful exaggeration, but in light of the foundation of colonialism that turned into racism, it’s not really a long stretch.
(MN: Your use of the term “colonialism” isn’t really appropriate here. Blacks were not under the boot of foreigners who came in and colonized their land. It was the Whites who were under the boot of colonialism. )
His suggesting that the government initiated AIDS is not that long of a stretch considering it’s historical pattern, including the Tuskegee Experiment, Project MKNAOMI and Margaret Sanger’s Negro Project.
(MN: Interesting. All of the things you keep mentioning are activities initiated by LIBERALS/PROGRESSIVES, not those racist conservatives. By the way, Margaret Sanger’s negro project is still going on. Already her idea has managed to kill over 13 million black babies since the ROe v Wade decision. Are abortion clinics institutionalized racism? And if they are, what is the institution? )
What was the context of him claiming “we deserved the attack on 9/11″? Was this quote taken from the context of a critique of our foreign policy and our unjust wars? (MN: You have to assume that the wars are unjust. At this point we are simply trading opinions. [One of the reasons I have not been particularly interested in discussing politics on this site. I love doing it in general. )
In many of Paul’s letters/epistles, he talks about his opposition from the “Jews”. Some of his language is strong and offensive. Does that make him hateful or anti-Semitic? Not at all. (MN: He states fact. The Jews were giving him a hard time. Far cry from the roosting chickens. )
With all due respect (and a lot is due you from me Bro), but I can’t get with a lot of the “conservative” indoctrinations when it comes to many of the things that are addressed on the Obama topic.
(MN: Examples of the conservative indoctrination? )
Peace and blessings
I was speaking to the issue where Obama said he didn’t here Wright make the remarks chronicaled in the news… and based on my own experience with Wright, it is entirely possible that Obama didn’t here those remarks. I have differences with my friend, and Wright, but I respect them. My beef with all of these so called “evangelicals” is that they say American was founded on “Christian”values, and because Obama has been elected all of that has been or will be blown up.
America aint NEVER been a “Christian” nation. The American Government is responsible for some of the worst violation of human rights in the history of the world. America is and has ALWAYS been a hipocritical nation.
(MN: I don’t think the United States is a Christian nation. But it is difficult to credibly argue that the United States was not founded on Christian principals. Have we always lived up to them? No. Does that make us hypocritical? No more than me not living up perfectly to the principals that guide my behavior as a husband makes me so.
The issue with Obama is not that he is going to doom the nation to destruction at the hand of God. Heck, if God didn’t destroy the nation when Woodrow Wilson and FDR were presidents, He isn’t going to do so now - not just because BO is in office. The issue with BO is that apparently thinking Christians have managed to convince themselves that he is a practicing Christian rather than a Marxist, socialist, humanistic opportunist. )
Question: Biblically, what was the alternative?
Biblically, I think Chuck Baldwin was the correct choice (http://www.constitutionparty.com/):
I spoke to Christians about him - even sent out emails. You know what the Christians told me? They told me that they didn’t want to ‘throw away’ their vote. I had one Christian tell me about how she herself would abort a child, under the right circumstance, so what’s the big deal? Nevermind that God alone creates life. Nevermind what He says about those who shed innocent blood. Nope, it’s HER WILL be done, not His. Nevermind that Christians are supposedly striving to walk holy before the Lord. No, that’s not even a consideration when you’re being inconvenienced by the Sovereignty of Almighty God.
Now isn’t that just the bee’s knees?
I’m a member of the Constitution Party myself. I just can’t get enough of marginalizing myself.
Of course, I USED to be mainstream, as was everyone else who espoused what I do today . But somebody moved the stream and I didn’t move with it.
Dear Walkbyf8h,
GREAT info. That’s where I ought to be. Will research it.
Phil Perkins
WBF,
You said, “I had one Christian tell me about how she herself would abort a child…”
Such a one isn’t a Christian and we are to have nothing to do with such a one. I Cor. 5:9 and following.
Phil Perkins.
You said a mouthful! Now, it’s ‘good morning’ and nothing more. To say that I was speechless is putting it mildly.
walksbyf8h-
It is amazing how deprvied the human mind can be. To hear a Christain woman say, “she herself would abort a child, under the right circumstance.” is proof that humans have not changed much. We are so self-centered.
Some ask or have hinted that abortion is not an important issue for us to dewell on. But I present this to you: history. Remember, Isreal went into captivity for her sin. Nations have fallen and do not even exist anymore because they sinned against God. The mighty always have fallen in history and so it shall be with America.
BUT the Christain has no fear of this because we will live our lives in the city of new Jerusalem one day.
“Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea. I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband. And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Now the dwelling of God is with men, and he will live with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.”
He who was seated on the throne said, “I am making everything new!” Then he said, “Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true.”
He said to me: “It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. To him who is thirsty I will give to drink without cost from the spring of the water of life. He who overcomes will inherit all this, and I will be his God and he will be my son. But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.” …….
I did not see a temple in the city, because the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple. The city does not need the sun or the moon to shine on it, for the glory of God gives it light, and the Lamb is its lamp. The nations will walk by its light, and the kings of the earth will bring their splendor into it. On no day will its gates ever be shut, for there will be no night there. The glory and honor of the nations will be brought into it. Nothing impure will ever enter it, nor will anyone who does what is shameful or deceitful, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb’s book of life.”
WOW!! If that doesn’t get you excited then you are too caught up in this world.
To spend eternity learning about God! You are so right, it’s exciting and most times, I have to refocus because I want to go on and see my Lord.
It’s amazing how folks want to become all analytical, and biblically relevant, while going under the meadow and through the woods, under every nook and cranny, in order to dissect and determine, why a black man became president, and what it means, instead of just allowing another man-regardless of race-the privilege of just being the president of the U.S., similiar to the other 43 clowns that preceded him.
Don’t get me wrong, I totally understand the article’s intent, but I do feel that the author is putting more on it, than what it deserves…
Seekerman, I happen to agree with you also now we want to attach “Give us a king to lead us,” Wow we really can get deep for our owe good. What about the “heart of the king is in the Lords hand and he turn it whichever way he pleases” . I wonder what would have been attached if McClain would have became President.
No I’m not looking for him to lead me that role is reserved for Jesus Christ “only”. My pray is that the will of God is done…and it is soo…
I did not vote for Obama and the man scares me, but people made a good point: Obama is not the first ungodly man to hold the highest office, nor will he be the last (should the Lord tarry). Lastly, who brought the Trinity into this discussion…or did I just miss something BIG?
Okay, I am an idiot…nevermind that last question about the Trinity…duh.
I think if he hadn’t said he was christian i think that may have had something to do with it. I think if he hadn’t named the name of Christ or said he was a beleiver it would have been different but he did. Other presidents have come and gone but not all said they were beleivers. I think it has more to do with him saying he is a beleiver.
George Bush claimed to be a christian. JFK claimed to be a christian, so did Jimmy Carter. Now that I think about it, Nixon was a Quaker, John McCain was an episcopalian, but now a Baptist…
Hmmm…
All of these men are shining lights of Godliness are they?
Didn’t Bill Clinton attend church regularly, while in the White House? And didn’t Hilary Clinton claim to be a believer, and pray to the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit? This is what she said on a radio program.
So no, other presidents, and presidential candidates, have stated they were christians, implied that they were christians, but yet many of them are revered, or not as negatively put upon, as Obama is.
WHo reveres these guys seekerman?? Before you claim we’re treating anyone differently you have to show we revere these guys. I don’t . I know Melvin and IC don’t. And when Clinton came proclaiming to be a Christian and touting abortion, he was excoriated not revered.
But not a SINGLE President has EVER come to office holding the radical abortion agenda of Obama, nor his radical left-wing ties, nor had the gall to name Christ while doing so.
testing.
(MN: 1, 2, 3 )
I don’t care about folks revering the other guys I mentioned. Revering those other guys, or not, still doesn’t take away from the fact that these folks considered themselves to be believers, or implied that they were believers.
Secondly, they had to receive a modicum of reverence, based on the fact that they did win the presidency, right? Just because Obama inspire folks, doesn’t say all too much about Obama’s claim of the faith, as it does the lack of inspiration and charisma, the other candidates I mentioned had.
To me, unregenerate men who claimed the faith have held the office of the presidency, and Obama is no exception. And no, I don’t feel that he is a forerunner, or type of anti-christ, no more than I believe General George Washington, the first president of the U.S., to be one.
Yeah, I agree, Obama’s position on abortion is radical, but so was Clinton’s, in that he believed in abortion.
Furthermore, Obama believing in abortion, is just another example of an unregenerate man, again, claiming the faith, who hold to unbiblical positions.
To me, he’s no better than George Washington, who claimed, and or inferred his christian beliefs, but yet he owned slaves, and was pro-slavery. Did not people revere him? As a matter of fact, back in his day, folks revered him so much, THEY WANTED HIM TO BECOME KING.
I don’t think that much reverence will ever be afforded Obama.
I simply see this from a pure political stand, from those christians on the right, who are attempting to entwine their faith, into their politics, so that it can justify their dislike, or even hatred, for a candidate, or president, who’s a democrat.
I may not be all that old, but I do remember the same type of fear, paranoia, and self-righteous posturing was put forth, by the right, and their right wing christian base, concerning Bill Clinton.
They prayed for republican/conservative leadership, not only in the white house, but in the congress, feeling that it would be ordained by God, and they got just what they prayed for-8 years of Bush.
Maybe I’m slowwwww………..you made the claim that folks are treating Obama differently, then went on to admit that Clinton was actually treated far worse by Christians in general.
So, is your point that we’re treating Obama the way we treated Clinton, and for the very same reasons?? How precisely does that make your point that we’re somehow picking on Obama??
Melvin, I responded to Gary earlier this morning. Did you not receive that rebuttal post?
If not, let me know, and I’ll have at it again.
And lastly, I don’t think Obama is the most left wing president elect ever in modern history. Folks must’ve forgot about FDR…
Melvin,
I want to clarify two things. First, I apologize–the opening sentence of my last comment to you sounds overly confrotational. It was written in light of another comment that was accidently deletedly and if read in light of that, it wouldn’t seem so harsh.
Sorry.
Second, though, is one thing I wrote in the deleted comment is that politics is often treated like the GREAT SACRED COW in church. Preachers seldom apply the Scripture to it directly. That is wrong. For instance, I believe that what your author wrote in this post was absolutely correct in the main. (Second thoughts lead to the second comment which was posted.) His work was well thought out.
And there is no excuse for a mature, informed Christian to vote for anyone who is for abortion or the theft that is income redistribution.
In Christ,
Phil Perkins.–Again, I didn’t mean to be harsh–when I wrote, I thought the original comment made it.
(MN: Phil, not a problem. One of the things I’m enjoying is reading folks reactions to the article. I expect a little passion. but I am getting a lot of thought. Unlike a friend of mine who says “See? Obama has selected Rahm Emmanuel to be his chief of staff. It’s just one more indication that he intends to govern from the center!” Yeah. And the tiger down the street is going to have celery for dinner - he’s just inviting the sheep over for company, not as a second course.
By the way, did I kill a comment by accident? If so, resend and I can post it as well. )
I don’t know if you did or I did.
Doesn’t matter now anyway. Would love to meet you in person sometime.
God bless,
Phil.
Well Melvin “we” won’t really have autonomy because the American people will be under the thumb of the government. We already are to certain extent. One guy said on a website that promotes Christian Reconstruction that we have moved from big brother (the GOP) to the nanny state (the dems.) R. J. Rushdoony had a lot to say about statism. I don’t know what your thoughts are on Rushdoony. I’m still trying to figure him out myself. However I think he’s right that the U.S.A. is heading to a dictatorship. Greg Bahnsen was a big reconsructionist too. Both he and Rushdoony are deceased by the way. Race isn’t an issue with me,I gladly would vote for someone like Thomas Sowell. Although I don’t think Dr. Sowell would’ve been crazy enough to run he’s too smart for that. (MN: Besides, it would likely mean too big a pay cut. ) Personally I think Ron Paul would’ve made a good president. At present the GOP is controlled by neocons. The Dems. by liberals,in other words both parties are BIG GOVERNMENT! At least Ron Paul has a good understanding of the Constitution. The founding fathers understood that government is oppressive by nature unless restraints are placed upon it. Yes God is sovereign and He will have His way. That alone gives us hope for tomorrow and all eternity.
(MN: A fellow I’ve really enjoyed is Hyek. He wrote “The Road to Serfdom” in 1944. But reading it was like reading a white paper on that which the government (Republican and Democrat) are doing right now. The housing “explosion” fits right in the the tactics used by progressives/liberals in scaring people into giving them control over our lives.
And in the spirit of full disclosure, I should again tell all of you I am a Conservative. )
-And there is no excuse for a mature, informed Christian to vote for anyone who is for abortion
*That may be a good reason why one ought not vote for a particular candidate, but I tend to look at the total platform of the candidate, realizing that in this world, you’re not always going to have perfection in your leaders, and their positions.
It’s like hypothetically voting for an emperor who believes in abortion, or an emperor who believes that christians shouldn’t be thrown to the lion’s, or burned at the stake, and/or persecuted. This world’s system, full of unregenerate men, will always disappoint in one way or another.
What we must do is pick and choose who to support, as well as prioritize for the greater good, while praying for leadership to align with God’s will.
-or the theft that is income redistribution.
*Income redistribution has already occured in the Bush administration, especially during this financial crisis. If we are to strive towards a nation that adopts christian principles, as a government, it just can’t be about moral and social issues. It has to be about helping the less fortunate, as well as those left behind.
That is the christian thing to do, regardless of what folks think the Constitution says.
Even though I am a capitalist, and believe in the constitution, the concepts within capitalism and the Constitution isn’t held on the same level as scripture, to where I have to follow the “letter of the law,” concerning these man made documents.
It’s good for a nation, to have neighbors looks out for their other hard working neighbors, who are not as fortunate as they are, for whatever reasons.
What’s really so ungodly about that?
With that said, I don’t believe in abortion, and gay marriage. This is why I believe states ought to have a right to judge on these matters, therefore allowing those running for office who have views you mostly agree with, receive your vote.
Seekerman,
When we elect someone we actually hire them. If they promise to protect the murderers of the innocent, we are guilty of murder.
This isn’t a logical stretch. It’s actually a long recognized legal and moral principle common to most civilized systems of justice in history. Go to court on a murder charge and explain to a judge and jury that you didn’t pull the trigger (or put the suction needle in the baby’s head). Instead, tell them that all you did was to hire Bill to see it done. Then Bill hired Guido to do the actual act.
Guess, what–you’re going to jail because just admitted to murder or conspiracy to murder.
This is one of the great sins of the Left–murder. It is a shameful thing for a “Christian” to support anyone in favor of killing kids–unless the other candidate is going to kill kids and their grandmothers.
Remember this: Hitler never killed a Jew.
How will you explain to Christ and the kids killed in our nation just what political issue was worth their lives. Especially heinous is the fact that many vote for the left because they believe that they will put money in their pockets. That is murder for money.
Read James 5. Those who commit fraud against their employees for money have a special place prepared just for them in hell.
What sort of accomodations will God consider fit for those among us who voted our pocket books, knowing that children will die for it? Do you really think God won’t judge us for three thousand murders every day?
In Christ,
Phil Perkins.
Just for the sake of argument… are ALL white people responsible for slavery (save the several hundred who sponsored the underground railroad)?
Bishop,
No, not all white people are guilty of slavery, but all who actively and knowingly took steps to make it happen are. And all those who actively and knowingly worked and died for abolition ought to be thanked.
Phil Perkins.
Phil your comments are interesting to say the least…….I had a conversation with a co-worker in regards to the euphoria concernign Obama’s win. She asked me aren’t you happy…….I guess my face said no……….she responded you must be a republican……..I responded no.. I’m a Christian.
I attempted to explain the reasons I couldn’t vote for either candidate but especially for Obama due to several of his views and his delusion about the sermon on the mount. Nonetheless, she proceeded to tell me that she didn’t agree with McCain’s views and he didn’t articulate himself well……..She added that she doesn’t agree with Obama’s stance on Homosexuality and abortion, but (BUT) she listened to Obama speak on a talkshow about what he was going to do for the middle class and the lower class and it changed her mind and that’s why she voted for Obama.
Now what I didn’t say about this exchange is the LOOK she gave me due to my less than exhuberant countenance regarding the election, her look was one of either anger/hatred.
Having said that, I hope you can see where the GODLY principles got dropped off and the Humanism was picked up.
Note to seekerman…………I don’t no if you’ve been intimately impacted by abortion and the propaganda around it (by the world and the supposed church) but for those who have and have had to face the power of the word of GOD regarding this issue…………its not a light or sidebar issue as many want to make it out to be. It truly speaks of ones spiritual state and shows the weight the scripture has in there life.
Finally, I’m not saying its the end all be all, but its definently not a sidebar subject.
based on your statements above Seekerman…….I’ll add 2 Tim 2:4
Dear Anonymous,
You and some others here have written very thoughtfully here.
This is uncommon out in the world. In the NT the most common word for “fool” is “aphron”, which doesn’t necessarily mean someone who is stupid, but one who doesn’t think.
ALWAYS think. And think biblically. Continue to bring every thought under the slavery to Christ, as you seem now to do. Read the Scripture over and over and over. It will continue to changer your life. No one will be able to withstand your wisdom because it is God’s wisdom.
In Christ,
Phil Perkins.
seekerman, the author of the facebook hinted at the idea that America in its prime, Constitution and capitalism included, was founded upon the biblical “theorizing” of the Reformers like Calvin and Luther. i take it they’re not your best buddies, but both these men argued from Scripture to show that the principles of capitalism and the guidelines for the formulation of the constitution (to some degree) are found there–that is, in Scripture. so, it’s not that we are esteeming capitalism or the constitution above scripture, precisely because capitalism and (some of, if not most of, but not all of) the consitution are the necessary consequence of scriptural principles.
By the way, Calvin shows how capitalist principles can be derived from scripture in his Institutes.
A thought on abortion: I am pro life, yet I believe that those that choose to abort, by law have a right to that choice. They have chosen life over death and lest they repent the consequence will be hell. As a Christian, Jeremiah 1:5 is where I stand on life. In the book of Joshua, God say’s, “Choose you, this day, who you’re gonna serve…good or evil. So called conservative presidents and judges have not been able to stem the tide of abortion, that change comes from the heart…by preaching forgiveness and salvation that comes in Jesus Christ, and such preaching goes far beyond politics. If abortion is running rampant then fornication and adultery must also be in the equasion…again, change of heart can only stem the tide of such sin…not Obama or any other president, lest they be the anti-christ…and we fall into the 3 and a half peaceful years…before the tribulation…and surely I jest on the latter…4 give me!
Yes I’ve certainly heard of Hayek. Von Mises was a contemporary of his. Both were Austrians and both predicted the Great Depression, so I’ve read. Melvin you didn’t have to disclose you are a conservative. One can tell by reading your comments. I’m getting to the point of going libertarian. Albeit a pro life,drug free libertarian.
(MN: I hate to say it, but so am I. Libertarian is looking better and better. The older I get, the further up the spectrum I can feel me going. )
If it weren’t for their stance on drugs and the general leniency toward crime, I’d be a Libertarian already.
Yes GaryV,that bothers me too. I haven’t gone full blown Libertarian yet. However the other two parties aren’t good options either.
People!!!! please read Rom13!!! McCain/Obama God sets the leadership
dm
atlanta, ga
Yes Daniel, God ultimately sets up who rules. However, He does so in accordance with either the obedience or rebellion of the people to be governed. We get the leadership we DESERVE (which says something ominous).
1Sa 8:1 And it came to pass, when Samuel was old, that he made his sons judges over Israel.
1Sa 8:2 Now the name of his firstborn was Joel; and the name of his second, Abiah: [they were] judges in Beersheba.
1Sa 8:3 And his sons walked not in his ways, but turned aside after lucre, and took bribes, and perverted judgment.
1Sa 8:4 Then all the elders of Israel gathered themselves together, and came to Samuel unto Ramah,
1Sa 8:5 And said unto him, Behold, thou art old, and thy sons walk not in thy ways: now make us a king to judge us like all the nations.
1Sa 8:6 But the thing displeased Samuel, when they said, Give us a king to judge us. And Samuel prayed unto the LORD.
1Sa 8:7 And the LORD said unto Samuel, Hearken unto the voice of the people in all that they say unto thee: for they have not rejected thee, but they have rejected me, that I should not reign over them.
1Sa 8:8 According to all the works which they have done since the day that I brought them up out of Egypt even unto this day, wherewith they have forsaken me, and served other gods, so do they also unto thee.
1Sa 8:9 Now therefore hearken unto their voice: howbeit yet protest solemnly unto them, and shew them the manner of the king that shall reign over them.
1Sa 8:10 And Samuel told all the words of the LORD unto the people that asked of him a king.
1Sa 8:11 And he said, This will be the manner of the king that shall reign over you: He will take your sons, and appoint [them] for himself, for his chariots, and [to be] his horsemen; and [some] shall run before his chariots.
1Sa 8:12 And he will appoint him captains over thousands, and captains over fifties; and [will set them] to ear his ground, and to reap his harvest, and to make his instruments of war, and instruments of his chariots.
1Sa 8:13 And he will take your daughters [to be] confectionaries, and [to be] cooks, and [to be] bakers.
1Sa 8:14 And he will take your fields, and your vineyards, and your oliveyards, [even] the best [of them], and give [them] to his servants.
1Sa 8:15 And he will take the tenth of your seed, and of your vineyards, and give to his officers, and to his servants.
1Sa 8:16 And he will take your menservants, and your maidservants, and your goodliest young men, and your asses, and put [them] to his work.
1Sa 8:17 He will take the tenth of your sheep: and ye shall be his servants.
1Sa 8:18 And ye shall cry out in that day because of your king which ye shall have chosen you; and the LORD will not hear you in that day.
1Sa 8:19 Nevertheless the people refused to obey the voice of Samuel; and they said, Nay; but we will have a king over us;
1Sa 8:20 That we also may be like all the nations; and that our king may judge us, and go out before us, and fight our battles.
1Sa 8:21 And Samuel heard all the words of the people, and he rehearsed them in the ears of the LORD.
1Sa 8:22 And the LORD said to Samuel, Hearken unto their voice, and make them a king.
Isa 3:12 As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths.
This is a pretty good barometer of precisely where America stands in relation to God.
paisano, why are you likening america to israel~ america is not a theocracy.
it’s disheartening to see how the outcome of this election has polarized many Christians and so many are hurling unfair accusations at others.
lionel woods has a good post up that addresses the issue in balance.
Mav, where did I liken America to Israel?? I am talking about the principle,which extends beyond national borders.
Pro 14:34 Righteousness exalteth a nation (not just Israel): but sin is a reproach to ANY people (not just Israel).
ok, pai, it seemed like you were comparing the two.
Nope, just using the principle,though I can see how it would seem otherwise the way I worded it. Thanks for pointing it out Mavvy!!
Well, it did appear as if you were comparing America to Israel.
Daniel m
Please don’t take Romans chapter 13 out of context. If you read the whole chapter, you would have realized that it was talking about the laws set for the lawbreaker. Meaning we have to abide by the Laws of the land. Ex: if someone steals, commits murder and so forth, they have to pay the consequences set by the law givers. The ordaining part came in as ministers set in order for those who commit such crimes. That is not talking about the office of Presidency. Once again, God can not place people in office that will go against his Word. Otherwise his kingdom can not stand.
Darla, the Bible makes explicit the fact that it is God Who sets up and removes rulers. However, it’s also made clear that whomever He sets up is a reflection of those being governed.
I would love to love this guys post but as some of you have said. It’s mighty interesting that when it comes to Obama all this deep exegesis needs to be done. Where was this guy during the Clinton or the walking blasphemy that was the Bush administration.
Are you claiming there was no Christian criticism of CLINTON or BUSH?? Good grief.
Not at the level Obama is getting and in the case of Clinton it was conservative Christians mostly. So we don’t know if it was about Christ or in service to the GOP.
wow! can the author give an analysis of the other 43? this is amazing! are you sure a supremacist did not submit or initiate this article? crabs in the basket menatlity applies to more than just a racial phrase as it applies to this rambling raping of the scriptures. it is yet another manipulation of scripture used to build a doctrine from a contextual recording. perception and interpretation is the basis here. God is the Alpah and Omega! There is no dispute or doubt of that ever in my heart or walk - but this article in itself is exemplary of “autonomy” - itching of the ears for self satisfaction and glory. Unless the author or the owner of this site can offer an in depth comparative assessment of the 43 predecessors - this is yet another proof of how this site is dedicated to division versus unification. And please spare me the quotations of scripture. Either back up this nonsense with educationally researched verfiable proof or stop being murderers to the Believers of Jesus Christ and those seeking Truth. In these eschatological times, the exposure will come - and your true works of iniquity will be exposed. This site continuously proves itself to be authored by one whom walkd in the spirit of offense and hurt, blindly quoting individual scriptures, seperated from its completeness, in efforts to support its point of focus. The standard that you boldly claim to hold, while continuously tearing down, has yet to be set as a beacon of light or pillar of hope and faith for the seekers of the TRUE and LIVING SAVIOR JESUS CHRIST OUR LORD! Insult all you want…I am well accustomed to how you receive those who challenge your “position”. Did not the Pharisees receive Our Savior and Lord Jesus Christ in the same way?……………..
Good grief……..I could fertilize 40 acres with that post. You mean in order to assess Obama one must FIRST do all 43 OTHERS first??
When we assess Benny Hinn,should we start with Marcion and move forward through all the other heretics first, or is it OK to just start with Finney so we can get to Benny before he leads millions more astray??
Some of you people amaze me.
so does the mentality of some of our own culture - an educated debate provides pros and cons - as well the spreading of the Gospel of Jesus Christ should build up the body called by His name, while simultaneously tearing down those working in iniquity - not be one sided.
(MN: I’m sorry, could you restate this in a way that I can actually understand? Try a sentence for each idea rather than the parenthesized format. It was really difficult to follow your thoughts. )
My prayer is that as much effort is dedicated to the building by those who support this site as is done in the tearing down - and not just quoting scripture for contextually - everyone whom opposes the positions represented here are not mislead as your responses make them to be - as for Benny Hinn GaryV - I do not indulge in his ministry - again no one has provided assessments of the predecessors and “some” of the heaviest tearing down comes from within the African American culture itself - yet this has been an issue within the existence of God’s Creation since The Fall, Cain and Abel etc. Be Blessed Brothers and Sisters - no matter the argument GOD WINS IN THE END!
(MN: Huh? I didn’t even try with this paragraph. Remember, if I don’t understand what you’re saying, I can’t respond. I don’t have the gift of Interpretations of tongues. )
Two questions. Please answer them in a concise manner:
1. According to your statement, you hold what The Word of God says in lower esteem than “educationally researched verfiable proof”. Is this what you meant to say?
2. Please explain what, exactly, a Pharisee is.
Thanks
Here’s a QUESTION FOR ALL OF YOU:
(Well….three questions)
1. Do you go out evangelizing?
2. Do you realize how close we are to living in a nation that has starting steps to make evangelism illegal?
3. Will you be willing to go to prison for the gospel when that time comes?
In Christ,
Phil Perkins.
Perhaps this will start the “coffee” brewing? Or, maybe some V8 will awaken the Wheat of the Field. I doubt it at this point. I’ve come to the conclusion that it will be “Christians” who have no compunction whatsoever in ignoring The Word of God, who litter my day with their man-centered idolatry, who will make the call so that I can be “re-educated” or lose my head.
Here’s one more question -
4. Other than your holiday celebrations or perhaps a cross on your neck, is there anything in your life currently that would easily prove you guilty of being a Christian?
1. Do you go out evangelizing?
No, I do not, nor do any of the other ‘christians’ at my church.
2. Do you realize how close we are to living in a nation that has starting steps to make evangelism illegal?
No, I did not realize this. However, if you look at how hostile, judgmental, and mean most ‘Christians’ are, I can understand. Many ‘christians’ have become so intolerant of others that it is very hard to see ‘Christ’ in any of them.
3. Will you be willing to go to prison for the gospel when that time comes?
This will not be necessary, because when they start coming for the ‘christians’ they have enough guns and ammo to kill us all!
The abortion issue is very interesting to me, because I hear a lot of ‘christians’ do not like President Obama because he believe a woman has a right to choose to do what she wants to with her body, I do not believe in abortion, but I agree with President Obama. I would always council a person to keep their child, but in the end, I believe that they should be able to make up their own mind.
There was a time, when our ancestors had no choice in the matter, many were rapped and babies were taken away at birth, I even remember reading about mothers who would kill their babies rather than have them to grow up as slaves. We will never know the pain and suffering that many go through regarding the decision to keep or not keep a child, so it really is best that we try to support people and lift them up before God, not tear them down because of what they decide.
President Obama is ‘Our’ President, we need to lift him up before God and pray that he makes the right decisions and pray for his protection. Isn’t that what Born Again Christians are Supposed to do?
Are you your brother’s keeper?
Do you love your neighbor? Who is your neighbor?
Lord, help us, not to be fools. In, Jesus Name. Amen
Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, Romans 1:22
Yvette,
Actually, folks in this country have been sentenced to jail already simply for speaking the gospel or passing out tracts. Not long ago, two gradmothers were arrested in Pennsylvania for it. Here is an interesting website for your consideration: http://www.stophatecrimesnow.com/ .
Now, as to your interest in abortion–and thank you for your interest as this is very important to the Father–may I ask you to consider two arguments, please? One is logical/biblical and one is purely biblical.
1. Can you find any godly individual in Scripture who ever said they don’t believe in a particular activity, but say it’s okay for someone else? This is the logical/biblical argument. Evil is evil, Good is good. And matters of freedom are matters of freedom. For your view to be true, you have to show that killing children so that we can have sex with whomever we wish whenever we wish is a matter of freedom.
Biblically, you can’t, since the Law called for punishment for a man who accidentally killed a fetus in a fight with another man and accidentally striking a pregnant woman. Abortionist do the same.
Well, not quite..they do it on purpose…for money.
2. Now the biblical argument. Read this: Exodus 22:22-24 “You shall not afflict any widow or orphan (or fatherless child). If you afflict him at all, and if he does cry out to Me, I will surely hear his cry; 24 and My anger will be kindled, and I will kill you with the sword…”
God hates the abuse of the helpless. Love your neighbor as you point out. Children are your neighbors, too, aren’t they? Will you pray for them? If someone exuses killing a kid because he/she is in the mom’s body, Christ tells us our bodies aren’t our own. And the Bible tells us all sorts of things we can and can’t do with our bodies, including all sorts of sexual activities. If the mom breaks these laws and gets pregnant, why does she have the right to kill the child? The child didn’t commit adultry or fornication. She did.
And don’t kid yourself–most abortions result from folks doing stupid sexual things with folks they had no right to be with in God’s eyes. Like King David, murder to mitigate the consequences of sexual sin.
I also would like to defend myself a bit, if you will allow it. I evangelize. When you speak of those of us who obey Christ in this way as evil, you don’t know much about us. It’s easier to stay home. Each time I go out, I sacrifice my time and I can count on being hated–especially by religious folks. (The unchurched aren’t all that hostile. It’s usually folks like you who hate us. Why?) I preach repentance and the coming judgment of God, just like Jesus did. Mt 4:17.
Because I love God and my neighbor–Ez. 33.
Finally, if the men of your church don’t evangelize regularly, they’re in sin, and ought not kid themselves about belonging to Christ. Matthew 7.
They don’t love God or they’d obey Him gladly. They don’t love their neighbors or they’d warn them.
In Christ,
Phil Perkins.
Amen, Phil. Evangelizing is a command, not a option. You will appreciate this morning’s ride on the subway, then:
A Saint was sharing the Gospel - and leaving nothing out, mind you. So, I’m listening and watching the people. I’ve had to speak up to distract angry folks when they want a piece of a Saint so I try to stay alert. Anyway…as he’s preaching, another man stands up and asks him to stop. Saint continues. The man says, “I’m asking you nicely to stop saying that s$%@”. Saint continues. The man blurts out, “I HATE GOD! I’m telling you to shut up!!” Saint finishes his recitation of scripture, the doors open, and Saint moves to the next car. What did the people say? The people thanked the man.
“Out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks.” Yepper…the bees knees.
1. Do you go out evangelizing?
No, I do not, nor do any of the other ‘christians’ at my church.
(GV) Then you all have no desire to obey the One you claim as Lord?? Why not??
2. Do you realize how close we are to living in a nation that has starting steps to make evangelism illegal?
No, I did not realize this. However, if you look at how hostile, judgmental, and mean most ‘Christians’ are, I can understand. Many ‘christians’ have become so intolerant of others that it is very hard to see ‘Christ’ in any of them.
(GV) Jesus was an extremely intolerant Person. Didn’t tolerate false teachers or false prophets, didn’t tolerate the twisting of the Scriptures, didn’t tolerate the worship of any other “gods”, didn’t tolerate any other way to the Father beside Himself, etc etc etc.
3. Will you be willing to go to prison for the gospel when that time comes?
This will not be necessary, because when they start coming for the ‘christians’ they have enough guns and ammo to kill us all!
(GV) Don’t worry. You’ll be OK. Just tolerate them and they’ll leave you alone.
The abortion issue is very interesting to me, because I hear a lot of ‘christians’ do not like President Obama because he believe a woman has a right to choose to do what she wants to with her body, I do not believe in abortion, but I agree with President Obama.
(GV) The issue isn’t what a woman does with HER body,because the child growing in her is NOT a part of her body. HER body has unique and identical DNA markers in every cell. The baby’s DNA markers are NOT the same as HER DNA markers, therefore the baby is not her body.
Biology 101. It’s not a wart or a hangnail to be excised by tearing and suction. It’s a completely unique person.
I would always council a person to keep their child, but in the end, I believe that they should be able to make up their own mind.
(GV) How come they get to make up their own mind when killing their baby, but the guy who breaks into your home and puts a bullet into your head can’t use the same excuse??
There was a time, when our ancestors had no choice in the matter, many were rapped and babies were taken away at birth, I even remember reading about mothers who would kill their babies rather than have them to grow up as slaves. We will never know the pain and suffering that many go through regarding the decision to keep or not keep a child, so it really is best that we try to support people and lift them up before God, not tear them down because of what they decide.
(GV) What about the pain and suffering of the child?? What about rape or infirmity or INCONVENIENCE makes the child any less created in the image of God?? Rape makes up less than 1% of pregnancies. The other 99 plus percent are done because someone had a quick-draw zipper, and the abortions are performed to avoid responsibility.
We certainly should show compassion for those who have chosen abortion and use resources to help them deal with the issues of sin and guilt that destroy many afterwards. But FUNDING their abortions with tax dollars?? No.
President Obama is ‘Our’ President, we need to lift him up before God and pray that he makes the right decisions and pray for his protection. Isn’t that what Born Again Christians are Supposed to do?
(GV) Yes, and I for one have already begun. However, that involves prayer for his repentance before God lest he is lost eternally, as well as prayer for his eyes to be opened to the fact that to fund and facilitate murder makes him accountable.
Are you your brother’s keeper?
Yes. And that doesn’t stop with Obama. Nor does it end with those whose killing he supports.
Do you love your neighbor? Who is your neighbor?
(GV) We may be better served asking you, since you seem more selective as to who you consider your neighbor. Is there an age restriction?? A height restriction?? By what criteria do you exclude those in the womb who are also made in God’s image??
Lord, help us, not to be fools. In, Jesus Name. Amen
Amen. Of course, the Bible defines fools as those who refuse to build their lives upon the rock of Scripture (including the Scriptures that forbid abortion.)
Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, Romans 1:22
I pray you’re looking deeply into a mirror when you recite this,keeping in mind the BIBLICAL definition of a fool given to us by Christ.
Mat 7:26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
yes to all 3 Phil. have done so on international levels.
Good point in question 4, WBF.
Phil Perkins.
Covered,
Then you are indeed my brother. Perhaps you have some words of wisdom since this may be our future here?
And, also, do you have any tips for those of us who preach and evangelize on the streets in the US? Will look for anything I might learn from you.
Also, where have you preached in the world?
I have been preparing my wife for that eventuality. I have told her what books to bring me if I’m in the pen and if books will be allowed for me. For some reason God has worked in my life to really sharpen up my language skills–biblical Hebrew and Greek. Since we have elected our first Marxist president, I have wondered if God has prepared me to go to prison and minister there. Indeed, I am ready to read both languages with only prompting from a good translation.
God bless you,
Phil Perkins.
Witnessing on the streets I find works best in simply following the Biblical pattern of Law and Gospel. Preach the Law to kill them, then preach the Gospel of Christ to bring new life.
Folks don’t want a Saviour until you show them that from which they’re being saved……God’s wrath for the broken Law.
Japan, South Africa, Haiti, England. I would encourage you and your spouse to study the Word in depth, the cultures of the areas you will enter and to continuously and consistently seek the Lord. International evangelism is often not realized for the level of warfare which it is. God is GLOBAL and no respector of persons. As well, consider studying the ancient and original documents of accounts and Scripture - such as the Hebrew, Greek and Aramaic accounts from which the Canon, that we all acknowledge and know as the Holy Bible, were derived. These accounts offer true meanings of words prior to translations, human perceptions and any possibilities of contextual “boxing”. It is very VERY important for anyone in 5-fold ministry to desire complete TRUE understanding of all the Lord has offered and from where it derived, especially when considering going beyond every day community. Finally, iyou might want to nvest in a good Strong’s Exhaustive Concordance that offers much of what I have mentioned. It is great point of reference and offers great explanation when cross referencing ancient docs. I pray that this helps and may the Lord bless, guide and protect you, your spouse and family as you consider this level of surrender for the advancement of the Kingdom and the Glory of the Lord Jesus Christ.
Hello Friends,
Hope you all are well! Thanks God for a means for us to communicate our views and share information with each other. Just think, a mere 10-15 years ago we could not communicate with each other as we are now. What a tremendous blessing!
May I humbly submit that I think we give ourselves way too much credit in determining who our leaders are. As much as we feel we are making informed choices and are voting our consciences; as much as we think we are making our vote based on the individual issues, ultimately, it is God who determines who rules. And because it is God, we are not going to understand all of His reasons. We may see God’s handiwork in some things that happen and then again, we may not. Some things we may not see until we get to heaven. God’s wisdom and ways are past any comprehension by us. I think our job is to respect whoever our leaders are and to pray for them and the nation.
Please read the following scripture and maybe do a little research to make sure I am not taking them out of context:
Danial 4:17 ‘The decision is announced by messengers, the holy ones declare the verdict, so that the living may know that the Most High is sovereign over the kingdoms of men and gives them to anyone he wishes and sets over them the lowliest of men.’
Romans 13:1 Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God.
Danial 2:20-21 Praise be to the name of God for ever and ever; wisdom and power are his. 21 He changes times and seasons; he sets up kings and deposes them.
Psalms 75:6-7 No one from the east or the west or from the desert can exalt a man. 7 But it is God who judges: He brings one down, he exalts another.
Steve,
An excellent and very biblical reminder. Thank you.
Phil Perkins.
Righter says:
It is what it is and nobody can change it–:-)
Hey Melvin–how ru?
Been really sick and inactive-feeling better now-I hope–:-)
Greetings all.
Just a couple of points/opinions/observations.
It seems like abortion is the main political/Christian platform and the main litmus test of a person’s Christianity/faith and qualifications of leadership. Many make a lot of noise about abortion (for the record, I’m not for it), but what about unjust wars, torture, the death penalty, cruelty to immigrants, etc.
With other presidents, particularly this last one, it seems like though there were Christians who criticized him, most Christians not only put him in office, but still support him and/or his policy, particularly where preemptive war is concerned. This past election was close, and many evangelical Christians supported the other candidate because of his position regarding the wars. By implication, many measure unjust wars as a lesser sin than abortion.
Peace and blessings
Teejay,
Welcome to the faith. Keep doing what you’re doing. Read the Bible over and over and over and over. Sell you TV and read the Bible over and over and over.
You will be wiser in one year than most church-goers get in 20 years. Wiser than most preachers.
God bless you,
Phil Perkins.
do you think God will judge your vote? true God puts up who he wants that very evident in Daniel, Romans 1, etc. But just because we know these things do we endorse a guy who is trying to set laws against our very values as believers? i.e. gay marriage and abortion. I’m pretty new to voting based on moral values because b4 Christ i voted based on whoever put more dollars in my pocket. But now that i have a little more wisdom based on the Word of God i think it is wise to show what we stand for as a group of beleivers vs just voting because God puts up who he wants. Remember Jehu killed and destroyed everyone who was affliated with Jezebel and those who helped her build her kingdom with Ahab. I don’t want to say i was a part of that because that brings the judgement upon me.
Very true Steve, but let’s not forget that there IS a component in Scripture where the desires/obedience/rebellion of the people governed are reflected in the rulers God establishes.
1Sa 8:1 And it came to pass, when Samuel was old, that he made his sons judges over Israel.
1Sa 8:2 Now the name of his firstborn was Joel; and the name of his second, Abiah: [they were] judges in Beersheba.
1Sa 8:3 And his sons walked not in his ways, but turned aside after lucre, and took bribes, and perverted judgment.
1Sa 8:4 Then all the elders of Israel gathered themselves together, and came to Samuel unto Ramah,
1Sa 8:5 And said unto him, Behold, thou art old, and thy sons walk not in thy ways: now make us a king to judge us like all the nations.
1Sa 8:6 But the thing displeased Samuel, when they said, Give us a king to judge us. And Samuel prayed unto the LORD.
1Sa 8:7 And the LORD said unto Samuel, Hearken unto the voice of the people in all that they say unto thee: for they have not rejected thee, but they have rejected me, that I should not reign over them.
1Sa 8:8 According to all the works which they have done since the day that I brought them up out of Egypt even unto this day, wherewith they have forsaken me, and served other gods, so do they also unto thee.
1Sa 8:9 Now therefore hearken unto their voice: howbeit yet protest solemnly unto them, and shew them the manner of the king that shall reign over them.
1Sa 8:10 And Samuel told all the words of the LORD unto the people that asked of him a king.
1Sa 8:11 And he said, This will be the manner of the king that shall reign over you: He will take your sons, and appoint [them] for himself, for his chariots, and [to be] his horsemen; and [some] shall run before his chariots.
1Sa 8:12 And he will appoint him captains over thousands, and captains over fifties; and [will set them] to ear his ground, and to reap his harvest, and to make his instruments of war, and instruments of his chariots.
1Sa 8:13 And he will take your daughters [to be] confectionaries, and [to be] cooks, and [to be] bakers.
1Sa 8:14 And he will take your fields, and your vineyards, and your oliveyards, [even] the best [of them], and give [them] to his servants.
1Sa 8:15 And he will take the tenth of your seed, and of your vineyards, and give to his officers, and to his servants.
1Sa 8:16 And he will take your menservants, and your maidservants, and your goodliest young men, and your asses, and put [them] to his work.
1Sa 8:17 He will take the tenth of your sheep: and ye shall be his servants.
1Sa 8:18 And ye shall cry out in that day because of your king which ye shall have chosen you; and the LORD will not hear you in that day.
1Sa 8:19 Nevertheless the people refused to obey the voice of Samuel; and they said, Nay; but we will have a king over us;
1Sa 8:20 That we also may be like all the nations; and that our king may judge us, and go out before us, and fight our battles.
1Sa 8:21 And Samuel heard all the words of the people, and he rehearsed them in the ears of the LORD.
1Sa 8:22 And the LORD said to Samuel, Hearken unto their voice, and make them a king. And Samuel said unto the men of Israel, Go ye every man unto his city.
God does not choose who rules arbitrarily.
Pro 14:34 Righteousness exalteth a nation: but sin [is] a reproach to any people.
Great article Sir!!
Indeed, America has now elected the most dangerous President in her history…far far worse then any other leftist…Obama will make Clinton and Carter look like Conservative Giants…
This Obama is dangerous from a Christian POV and a Secular POV….I cannot think of any position that obama holds that isnt anti christ….
However….perhaps Obama will surprise us and govern from the center as opposed to his radical left wing history!???
Or mayby the Senate and Congress can keep him in check???
I do not know….but watching the blind adulation of this man, it does give one an idea when the anti christ arises, how it will happen….people singing songs, chanting empty slogans, preaching ‘change’…etc etc…
Praise the Lord that Christ is in charge of everything…..
I am reminded of the Great Protestant reformer, Marting Luther, who stated that ‘the devil is still god’s devil’……….ergo, Obama still is controlled by the All Mighty…..
Let us pray for Obama and his Family and let us pray for his Salvation and let us pray for wisdom to come upon him and pray for his protection and his families protection….
Blessed Jesus is still and always will be in control!!
Blessings!
http://www.pahrumpvalleytimes.com/2008/Mar-07-Fri-2008/opinion/20175464.html
Huckabee’s exit leaves the Latino and black faith communities in a real quagmire because they don’t feel like McCain and the GOP are in sync with them. While they agree with the GOP on most issues, they don’t feel embraced by the party. They disagree with the Democrats, but the Dems reach out to them. Many white evangelicals are disgusted because the establishment and consultant class of the GOP are not connecting with them. This class of voters is abandoning that form of politics, but not their core beliefs.
Today, I heard a Christian radio show about a caller who said that Obama did not bring sin into this world!!! I shouted to him that he is a stupid fool!!! It is said that many “Christians” has now seen Obama as their “God”. How sad
.
How is McCain any better than Obama. I see all this Obama bashing going on and where was the christian alternative. McCain claims he is pro-life but when asked about the issue, he says he let that debate be settle at the state level, what a cop out.
Edward,you’re aware of course that you didn’t HAVE to vote for either of them. There are other options.
No human is perfect, and as Christians our faith is in God. However, though that is the case, we are responsible for the stewardship given us over our environment and this includes our vote. IMO, the above party most closely matches biblical mandates.
IMO, neither party (Rep or Dem) should even be a consideration ever again. I realize that that is a possibility, but no were near a probability.
But I can still hope! That scripture about God’s people humbling themselves, turning from their wicked ways, and seeking His face is like a ‘carrot’ for me. What if? What IF!?
The world has yet to see what would happen if the Christians of this nation drew a line in the sand and got serious with God. If for just a season of time - 4 pitiful years - we had the faith in our God.
KEEP HOPE ALIVE ~ 2012!
Since they are out there, here’s the link for the Libertarian Party. We have to get off our hind quarters and do the leg work. We have got four years to educate ourselves.
WBF,
Now here is a fine but important point of theology that pertains to this. II Chron. 7:14 applied to God’s folks under the Old Covenant. We are under the New Covenant.
Here’s why that’s important:
Under the Old Covenant, the assembly was promised peace and prosperity in the land if they obeyed the Father. Under the New Covenant we are promised persecution and the poverty, imprisonment, death, and health consequences that often accompany persecution.
The US is not our kingdom. Jesus’ kingdom was not of this earth. Neither should ours be.
Sound brutal? Well, it kind of is. BUT it’s a glorious thing to share in the fellowship of suffering with our Big Brother, Jesus Christ.
Read Phil. 3.
In Christ,
Phil Perkins.
Phil - you lost me. What are you referring to? Can you quote me so I can properly respond?
(MN: I believe Phil is referring to a comment where you quoted 2 Chr 7:14. It wasn’t a major portion of the comment; almost an aside. He was just addressing an interpretation/application that most folks tend to go with. I don’t think it was a huge deal. [Phil?] )
Oh - hmm….well….no
I don’t think things will go back as they were, nor do I think that persecution of the Church will abate, but I do believe that God would honor sincerity in His Children. God did for George Muller, and he’s grafted into the New Covenant so I do not agree with that assessment. George’s autobiography is a testimony to the faithfulness of God toward a humble child. So, while I agree that the persecution of the Church will continue, I do not agree that God will not and/or has not honored the humble obedience of His children. So, I’m sticking with my first post.
WBF,
My Brother, you are truly my brother and I don’t mean any sort of disrespect or unfriendliness to you. In reading your comments I can see that you are a sincere person, following Christ. I hope this will clear it up:
Under the Old Covenant the assembly (these days we call it the “church”) was formed. Now, if you were like me, you were brought up under Modern Evangelical doctrine. Unlike historical Christianity, we were taught that the church began in Acts 2. That isn’t the case. God’s assembly began in Exodus when Yahweh told Moses and Aaron to tell Pharoah that the Hebrews in Goshen were separate from the Pharoah’s people. He said that the fact that the plagues would happen in all of Egypt, but not touch the district of Goshen (where the Hebrews lived) was a sign of that separation. This was to be a sign that they were God’s people and the Egyptians weren’t.
Then the Old Covenant was instated at Mount Sinai with the Ten Commandments. The people were to obey the Law and if they did they were to inhabit the entire land promised to Abraham and live in peace and prosperity.
However, later on in their history the idea of the New Covenant was introduced. Joel and Jeremiah spoke of it. It was not to be tied to a written, exterior law, but to a law written on our hearts. And the promise is an eternal home, with eternal peace. Remember the Last Supper–the New Covenant is written in Christ’s blood and we drink it symbolically. We remember our Sin Offering (Jesus) and the New Covenant He made possible, but primarily Jesus.
BUT the only promises for the here and now are the presence of the Spirit in us and among us to enable us to follow Christ AND persecution. “All who seek to live godly in Christ Jesus will suffer persecution.” That entails being killed, imprisoned, stripped of property, humiliated, and so forth.
SOOOO…applying OT promises of a land and peace isn’t actually biblical.
Now, I know that all this may seem foreign to you, but it is the historical position of the church until such things as Dispensationalism and Britiish Israelism came into the church.
And I know that, due to the limited space and time here, I’ve given almost no Scripture to prove what I’ve said–so don’t believe it until you research it for yourself.
Perhaps, I can soon give a fuller explanation on my site. I am writing a book on the Twenty-three Great Sins of American Evangelicalism and a chapter will be devoted to this subject.
Until then, perhaps Melvin might be good enough to send you my email address. Or I could send emails to Melvin who then could read them and determine if he wants to pass them on to you.
Read Romans 9 through 11. There you will see that we Gentiles are actually just grafted into true Israel. Thus there is no “church” versus Israel. It is the true Israel continued by taking in Gentiles for a time.
Then read Zachariah. There you will read that in the end, all nations will be under Jerusalem.
Doesn’t that give an interesting twist on racial issues, too? We will all be under the Hebrews, worshipping the God of Israel for eternity if indeed we are saved.
We Gentiles are the redheaded step children, save only by grace, just like our saved Jewish brethren.
In Christ,
Phil Perkins.
Hi Phil!! I would have to disagree since Scripture broadens the principle to a much further extent than the Jews or Israel.
Pro 14:34
Righteousness exalts a nation (any nation, not just Israel),
but sin is a reproach to any people (not just Jews).
Since this verse in Proverbs was written in the form of Hebrew poetry called Antithetical Parallelism, where the first verse states and the following verse re-states and expands upon the first verse in the negative, we have righteousness exalting any nation, and sin doing the opposite to any nation.
This would seem to place it in a category of a general principle rather than a Covenant promise, because the statement here is not anchored to the Covenant people or their land but rather extends to all nations and people.
Nailed it, Gary! Proverbs are just that: principles for living, set within the context of a covenant relationship with God, therefore applicable to Christians.
Don’t even get me started on “train up a child”…
Hey Phil,
I’ve been watching the forum to see if a response was forth-coming to my question about our brother, George Muller. Since you raised the issue of of my possibly misusing scripture, I find it a bit perplexing that you haven’t addressed my reply to you. I’m sure that it’s simply a case of a post being overlooked. A request, though; please avoid another highly debatable eschatological dissertation in your response. Thanks.
~ Walks (Le femme)
Constitution Party all the way! It is funny…most people, when I tell them I am part of the Constitutional Party say, “What is that?” Then, when I direct them to the site they are awe struck by the fact that the C.Party can back up EACH AND EVERY STANCE by lines from either 1. The Constitution itself, 2. Writings from the Founding Fathers or 3. Both of these. They usually come back to me and say, “I think I am C. Party, too!
I found a Christian website thats talking about Obama may do as President:
http://jesus-is-savior.com/Evils%20in%20Government/Communism/barack_obama.htm
Hi Friends,
Hi GaryV,
Very good point! I Samuel gives us some good information into how God thinks! However, I think in this situation we must realize that He was dealing with Isreal, who up until that time had been under a theocracy. These were God’s chosen people and they wanted to be like the other nations and have their own King. The United States, or any other nation on the earth right now, is not a Godly or even God centered theocracy. Therefore I think these verses may not apply to other nations (heathen).
Ofcourse I could be wrong, but I think that ultimately, God is still in control because He uses even evil and sinful peoples and countries to ultimately fulfill His purposes. To us it may seem like our issues like abortion and the war and gay marriage may be promoted in ways we don’t want, but God’s purposes will still be done..all while judging all of the actions on an individual and national basis.
Thanks for listening!
Hi Steve!! The fact of whether a nation is a theocracy or republic isn’t the issue. To reiterate……
Pro 14:34 Righteousness exalteth a nation (ANY nation, not just theocracies): but sin is a reproach to ANY people (not just Israel).
The principle of the spiritual tenor of ANY nation having a direct bearing on its exaltation or destruction doesn’t end at the borders of Israel or with theocracies as a political philosophy.
God does indeed use evil nations for His purposes, but He doesn’t incite the evil to do so. He merely takes the evil naturally present and uses it to fulfill His purposes.
BTW Steve, I agree entirely that God is in Sovereign control, but I just don’t want to leave the impression so many anti-Monergists hold that God’s Sovereignty alleviates man’s responsibility.
God is Sovereign in salvation and everything else, but man is still responsible before Him. I think we basically agree, but are emphasizing different sides of the same coin.
I’m a member of the Constitution Party myself. I just can’t get enough of marginalizing myself.
GaryV, I spoke at the GA state convention of the CP in 04. It was incredible. But the Constitution Party would never get national public attention without being branded by the msm as extremist group.
I wish they could do more to raise their profile, it would be an excellent alternative to the yuckiness the demos and pubbies offer us each election cycle.
I couldn’t agree more GCM!! BTW, I was invited to do stand-up comedy at a regional Republican Party convention back in 1993 (no kidding). I didn’t do it because the Bible says not to speak evil of your leaders, and Clinton was in office.
You know what they say……..if you can’t say anything nice, don’t say anything at all
You did? Well, what did the Screamer Dean do? Use the NET! But whatever is done - where ever feasible - all races and economic levels need to be included. No more of this “oreo” stuff. No, a well mixed salad.
So…….you were saying?
Hey gcmwatch,
What about using ‘The Screamer’ Dean’s approach and exploit the Net?
I happened to stumble across several debates between Alan Keyes and Obama which dates back to 2004. They mostly cover the major topics such as (Religion, Civil Unions, and Abortion). Interesting to notice the disparity between the two (Keyes: overtly honest and consistant on all fronts), (Obama: vague and very inconsistant on his views, especially when pressed). You make the call.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v-yUCg0TASc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SG5u04Gbg0A
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BT7qhGvykiQ&feature=related
Someone once said that if men got pregnant, abortion would be a sacrament. I agree. Not enough people have been in that situation, so don’t judge. Let God sort it out.
(MN: Actually, if men had to have babies, the human race would have disappeared long ago. )
Freebird,yeah I’ve heard that nonsense as well. Always spouted by someone looking to justify their support for murder.
Sin is decided based upon circumstance, and not its relationship to the word of God?
It seems many of you are suggesting that the alternative to voting for Obama was to vote for McCain, which is pretty much like voting a third term for Bush. Many who voted for Bush thought he was a Christian and had a mandate from God. Yet, he screwed this country royally and certainly set the nation up to seek a messiah-like figure to deliver us from his anti-Christian rule. Therefore, I disagree with those on this post who believe we should vote moral issues when people are losing their jobs and homes. That is poor stewardship of our responsibility as citizens of this country. This I believe is precisely why the founding fathers wanted a separation of church and state.
Bottom line: folks need to grow up and stop voting for moral issues. If we get the leaders we deserve, then so be it. In Obama, we might have the anti-Christ, or actually have someone moral and upright. In that case, maybe it’s God’s mercy after eight years of Bush. Obama is not perfect; nobody is. In fact, although I have had a close, day to day relationship with Christ for over 30 years, no doubt many of you here would castigate me for some of the choices I have made in my life, even though the scripture says that there is therefore no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the spirit. So stop criticizing the man who is now our leader and pray for him as we are called to do.
Who let the Tare in?
(MN: No, no. It’s who let the dogs out? )
If you had read the entire thread, you would see that you are incorrect. In any case, the wickedness of that comment can only be responded to with scripture:
1 Corinthians 5:9-13
“Twist not scripture lest ye be like Satan” ~ Paul Washer
Freebird, you’re suggesting that we jettison the Biblical command to walk in accordance with the faith once delivered to the saints and vote for someone who spits on God’s Word through his advocacy of abortion and homosexuality??
JOBS trump the Word of God?? Our citizenship in America trumps our citizenship in Heaven??
Can you provide any Scripture to support your views??
How stupid you must think Shadrach,Meshach, and Abednego were, right?? Just bow down.Be a good citizen.
What a moron Daniel was.
What a fool all those Christians were who went to the lions rather than be “good citizens” for Caesar. I hear they were promised jobs and money too if they would deny their faith.
Maybe your job gained through denial of Scripture could have been opening the gates for the lions?? After all, that’s what they get for voting Morals, right??
Unbelievable.
BTW, you know you didn’t HAVE to vote for EITHER McCain OR Obama, right?? There WERE alternatives. MORAL alternatives.
Oh yeah……….morals don’t matter.
interesting comments freebird. Now from what i know of “Messiah” Obama, he says that he’s a professing Christian. Yet when pressed on the critical moral issues (the Complete Authority of the God of the Bible), (Gay Rights / Civil Unions), (Abortion). On these issues he has been as spineless as the typical jack-leg politician. By no means am I an expert on politics, but the little bit of discernment that i do have, it seems that Obama uses the “Christian” tag to get more votes to capture the black voters (especially professing Christians). But then his ideology suggests that he is as far to the left as Derrick Coleman shooting a jump hook. I don’t see how you can stand there with a clear conscience and say that “I personally believe that traditional marriage is between a man and a woman”, but then in the next breath say that “But i don’t believe that my convictions are absolute”. What kind of double-talk garbage is that?! McCain, to me is basically swimming in the same pool, so he isn’t off the hook either. But, the way that people are falling out, crying, speaking in tongues, and foaming at the mouth, over this election, is baffling, Based upon the basic information that is presented to us.
I put this article out here two or three days ago. I hoped it might get a few comments. However, my concern (which is why I generally don’t do politics) was that it would become a dizzying free for all [as much as a BD would allow such a thing] that didn’t go much of anywhere.
So far, there are 99 comments and only a few of them are pointless ramblings.
But I have noticed something else. There are two types of commenter. Those who object to Obama on Biblical grounds and those who object to objections to Obama on what I’ll call, for lack of a better phrase, personal grounds.
Most of the folks who are offended that Obama is being criticized, or met with less than open arms, are very quick to either dismiss the importance of Scripture is our daily lives or accuse folks of misusing it. The most recent commenter, in sort of defending the supposed unifier, brought in some pretty inflammatory, dare I say, racist comments.
Do the Obama supporters out there see any need to compare what policy directions he has revealed to Scripture? Is Marxism consistent with Scripture? Is heavy taxation in order to “spread the wealth around” consistent with Scripture? Heck, even God didn’t have graduated tax scales. Is unfettered abortion consistent with Scripture?
Another characteristic I’ve noticed so far is the attempt to say “they’re all evil and depraved. But again, are there alternatives that more closely fit the Christian template.
I have to say, reading the comments has been a hoot. And it’s been really difficult for me to keep my mouth shut. But it appears to have paid off.
One of the things we are doing here is looking at how our Christianity plays itself out in our lives. For some of you, it stops at the front of the polling booth (and more than likely at the exit of the church on Sunday).
Fortunately, I haven’t read too much that indicates there are Dominionists out there. And that’s good.
One of the comments that I found almost breath taking in its emptiness (with respect to Christianity) was the admonition that we should stop voting moral issues. Perhaps the writer meant we should not be single issue voters. And that I can certainly agree with, depending of course on what the single issue is. But the objections to Obama are far from singular. They go from his moral judgment (or lack of) to his financial judgments (tax us into oblivion and then let the state take care of us) to his political judgment (hanging with men who basically hate America and actively espouse that hatred.
So far, it has been a most interesting thread. However, I will continue to focus primarily on the pimps in the pulpit rather than the thug-elect in the senate.
Oh, and hope you people checked out those YouTube clips on the Obama-Keyes debate. They really show how much of an amoral empty suit Obama really is.
Y’all are right. We do need to pray for this man. He stands to really screw things up, even worse than Jimmy Carter did in the late seventies.
Thanks Mel. I would suggest everyone check those youtube debates out. Its amazing that professing Christians are providing such violent support for this man, with out taking into account what he truely stands for.
On the exuberance: I was talking with a man of African descent, a native born African, and he said that he could not understand the enthusiasm of American born blacks per this election. He wondered why folk won’t just consider Obama the US president, and not the black president. I told him that as an American born black, I go back to Crispus Attucks, Frederick Douglass not being allowed to read, Dred Scott(by law, blacks not human, just property), Sojourner Truth (suffrage rights), Harriet Tubman (going against the law to help slaves escape), Nat Turner leading a revolt, Paul Robeson, Jackie Robinson, Jesse Owens, Shirley Chisholm, Charles Drew, and Daniel Hale Williams, Thurgood Marshall, Benjamin O. Davis, Chappie James, and many others the we learned about in 6th grade history class…is why great-grands, grands, and youth of african descent held such exuberance. I actually shed tears as they showed a clip of ML King’s gravesite after declaring Obama the winner…and I am a Christian, and question some of King’s writings concerning his view of Christianity…yet I shed tears, because it hit me that America is OUR home, too…and we have not always been included…we had civil rights, but not always civil opportunities…but for the inclusivity of Jesus Christ…and God making all people out of Adam…and Abraham (many nations)… grace, mercy, and forgiveness is not bound. Obama needs prayer…and much of it…Lincoln changed while in office, perhaps there can be a change for the better…but ‘cept the Lord keep the city, we watch in vain…
Melvin,
Yes. Checked them out. Keyes is awesome. Prophet-like. Notice how the crowd hated him? He wasn’t deterred, though. I’d vote him Pres in a hot second.
Phil.
Keyes was my choice when he ran too. The Anti-Obama.
Hey Melvin where can I see that Obama-Keyes debate on you tube?
(MN: One of the comments on this posting lists them. Or go to YouTube and search using Obama + Keyes + debate and you should get a list of them. )
What politician is a ‘full suit?’ Even if we checkout those Youtube clips…would it truly serve toward more pointed prayer? Hopefully, yes. And Jimmy Carter is the only president that I hear talk of Jesus Christ with conviction….and for all of the Reagan love…his wife was consulting star gazers and clairovoyants …and passing that info to Him….and Sarah Palin…is a tongue talker…hmmm?
(MN: This is great. Now we see the same lack of understanding applied to the secular world as we do to the Pulpit Pimps. Pay attention folks. This is one of the results of sitting under the Pulpit Pimps. Remember, many of the pimps and wannabes, actually endorse Obama.
Notice also the creation of a big fat straw man at the beginning of her comment. )
If I am understanding the way this works, the Republicans are God’s chosen people because they do not believe that a woman should be allowed to give back to God her unborn child, that it is okay to go into another nation under false pretence and greed to kill many innocent people for oil and greed, and I will not even mention torturing people? But Democrats are full of demons because they disagree? Okay, makes perfect sense.
(MN: “Give back her unborn baby.” What a lovely way of saying “murder her child before it can escape the womb.” And if Obama had his way, even escaping the womb would be no guarantee. )
Anywho:
I would recommend that the good Christians on this site stop being Pharisees and Sadducees and start doing what Jesus commanded you to do, keep His word. “Love ye one another!” This would include President Obama, remember that every idle word that we say we will have to give an account of on the day of Judgment.
If President Obama is the devil as many seem to think then God will deal with him, I just do not believe that God would allow the devil to be elected twice in a row to the office of president.
(MN: Remember, if the Mand of Gawd is doing wrong, you keep your mouth off of him and let God deal with him. Do you recognize the template? )
President Obama says that we are our brother’s keeper, meaning we should care about each other and help each other. I think he is correct, as a Christian, I really do not mind helping other people. I wonder where I got such a crazy idea, maybe it could have come from the Bible and the Holy Spirit urging me to help others.
(MN: Let me ask the obvious question: Why is he not taking care of his brother living on $24 a YEAR in a dirt floor hut in Kenya? Why has he not been taking care of his aunt living in a slum, a slum in Boston? His rhetoric is soaring [if empty]. His politics are socialist. Remember Napoleon and the rest of the pigs. )
Jesus spent much of His time healing the sick and lame, people who could not afford healthcare no doubt, President Obama wants to help these people now, but that is wrong because they do not deserve health care, if they did, they would have it like us. The nerve of him wanting to actually help his fellow Americans get affordable health care. I pray those that oppose it are never laid off or have to work for Wal-Mart.
His stance on abortion is to try and help the people who may want to have an abortion not get in that situation to start with, but for some reason that is wrong, because it is not what God meant when He said to train up a child in the way he should go. If the people who are against abortion would help the people who are wanting them, then they may not have them, has anyone ever thought of that, of course not, that would be too much like a re-distribution of your wealth. Women have been having abortions long before we were born and if the Lord tarries they will continue to have them long after we are gone. Have you ever wondered what would make a woman want to do such a thing? Of course not, too buzy dogging President Obama.
God Bless and Keep President Obama. Help him to make Godly decisions and help us to come together truly as one nation Under You. Lord, help us to take our eyes off of us and turn them to You and Your will. Lord, it is very evident that the devil is very busy and he wants to keep us divided, please do not let him get his way. Lord, I trust in You. Father, please help all of the ladies who may be considering having an abortion, send someone to each an everyone of them that will be of the help that need in order to keep their child. And Lord, while you are at it, touch our Christians hearts to be the ones that help these young ladies, even if it cost us. In Jesus Name–Amen!
Yvette you think Obama’s stance on abortion isn’t a big deal well when you consider that since 1973 there has been 13 million abortions with in the black community, represents more than AIDS, murder, accidents, cancer, and heart disease, put together. What an astounding statistic. And have you ever considered were these abortion clinics are placed in the first place? Well i’ll give you a list in my area and, hopefully it will put it in better perspective.
Abortion-whole women’s health care
19 E. Northern Pkwy., Baltimore, MD (black area)
Hillcrest Clinic
5602 Baltimore National
Catonsville, MD (black area)
American Woman’s services
3506 N. Calvert St.
Baltimore, MD (black area)
Planned Parenthood
330 N Howard St.
Baltimore, MD (black area)
Greater Baltimore Center for Preganacy Concerns
2418 St. Paul St.
Baltimore, Md (black area)
I did a google search, “abortion clinics in Maryland” and from what i gathered the only abortion clinics that I came across were in baltimore city. None in Harford Co., none in Ceicil Co., None in Baltimore Co. Makes you think there is a calculated effort to at the very least minimize the amount of black children into the community right? But then try to push it off as “its the woman’s right to choose”. Yet it’s “Black Messiah” Obama who supports this with his grinning teeth. Anyways i’m sure Margaret Sanger, would be proud if she were still alive.
Well it is good to see anyways nice to see black folks in the white house and not as the house help. Would be good if they had a baby in there huh?
In light of the history of America when it comes to the treatment of blacks , the Nov.4th election was an emotionally charged event for black folks.Most of the time when things are done out of an emotional state of mind regret soon follows. It is obvious that in the minds of the Obama apologist commenting here ,that when it comes to Obama , being black trumps being a Christian. This is what happens when votes are cast emotionally without analyzing who or what is being voted on.
At some point a decision has to be made as to who is going to be served ..God or man.It appears that some Christians , who happen to be black, have made their choice and have chosen to follow Obama.
(MN: Ladies and gentlemen, where else can you find such perfect examples of pure religio-babble as you can here at Pulp-Pimps. And it’s great to know that the religio-babble isn’t limited to religious topics. They are able to babble with respect to politics equally well. )
After Huckabee lost out in the election, I did not want to throw my vote away. Therefore, I voted for Obama based on his composure throughout the campaign, “wise as a serpent and harmless as a dove”. The fruit I saw in Obama was love, joy, peace, gentleness, and longsuffering. Most of the hate and anger came from the religious right with their false accusations. Who is the accuser of the brethren? Even several days after the election, the religious right is still filled with anger instead of respecting the God’s sovereignty, ie. “he will allow the foolish things to confound the wise”. Obama represents all of America and not just the “united states of the religious right”. Have we, along with the religious right asked, “what is God saying?” He orchestrated this 40yrs after King and the Inauguration will be held a day after MLK holiday. The only folk taking about killing and assassination is the religious right. They hide behind abortion when they’re out to ABORT the messenger. There was no one out to kill McCain. Maybe Obama is being persecuted for being righteous. We don’t know, only God knows. I pray that Obama get filled with God’s spirit and folk would be saved under his administration. Anything else from the so called religious folk is simply bigotry in the guise of morality. “Make your haters your motivators”.
Duke: I’m confused…..You speak of Obama like he’s sitting on the right hand of God. Fruit of the spirit? This same man you so eloquently speak about said there are other ways to heaven besides Jesus. You must be delusional! He isn’t a Christian, and he doesn’ represent Christian principles.
Duke,
You said, ” The fruit I saw in Obama was love, joy, peace, gentleness, and longsuffering.”
You forgot infanticide.
He wants the babies who survive botched abortions (murder attempts) to be killed on the table or be allowed to suffocate-starve in the trash can.
Yes, I can feel the love, can’t you?
Think about it,
Phil.
(MN: No, no Phil! He doesn’t WANT the babies to be killed. He just wnat to make sure it’s okay for the incompetent abortionist to kill the baby incase it’s lucky enough to make it out. Can’t you feel the love for the abortionist? Now that the Merciful Lord Obama, the Unifier is president elect, you gotta stop writing with such divisive language. Remember, the things you say are not “just words”. )
Bro Phil,
Yes, “the love” from the religious right is the abort Obama himself. Hear’s an illustration:
Today is a historic day in voting, no matter what candidate you choose.
Me? I am a married, mother of 2, who always pays her bills, employed worker who has been with the same company for over 9 years, and, yes, a taxpayer. However, I am in shock with the level of racism that still resides in our great state of Louisiana . About 20 minutes ago, I stopped by a local bakery to calm my sweet tooth. Oh, did I mention, I am a black woman. After entering the establishment with my two kids & mother in tow, another patron entered the bakery to pick up her order-a cake laced with the word “Obama” on it. An eldery, black couple was also there & when they heard there was an Obama cake, they were excited, wanted to view it. The lady at the counter told it was just his name on the cake. After the two other patrons left, me & my family were still there. I guess they assumed that we all were together. So, we were just waiting and looking over all of the items in the case. When the lady who gave the cake to the patron that ordered it came back, she told another lady at the counter that the lady she had given it to said, “We’ll get there soon.” To that, she replied, her eyes rolled back.
She also said, “Where’s the McCain cake?” To which the other lady said, “Waiting to be ordered, I guess.” And, this takes the cake (pardon my pun), the lady that served the cake to the patron replied, “Obama-I should’ve put a bomb in it; Obama-Bin Laden, they’re all in the same group.” All of this exchange going on in front of me-in front of my two little kids who just wanted to get a doughnut. I am outraged and disheartened as I write this. I have never experienced racism before, but it hurts more because I was a patron. Everyone is entitled to their views and opinions. Everyone is entitled to his/her political candidate, that is our right as humans. This should not be expressed in the presence of your customers or children. The bakery-Jumonville’s in Gonzales. I love their cakes but I love my children and their safety more. Jumonville’s will not have the pleasure of getting my hard earned money anymore because the blatant racism that was present in the store 20 minutes ago was enough for me to patronize another establishment who will keep their views and opinions to themselves. Please get this message out about this bakery!
Duke
Duke - I can certainly understand your hurt. What I can’t undersand is your surprise. There was individual racism in the world before BO was elected. There is racism now that he has been elected. There will be racism while he is president. And there will be racism once he has completed his single term as president.
Racism/prejudice exists. It will always exist. The question is: Are we as a people (the American people) trying to lessen the impact of individual racism in public life? Are we, as a people attempting to see past the color of another’s skin? And the answer to these questions, I believe based on what I have seen happening in the fifty-six years of my life, is “yes.”
Does BO as president make me feel good as a Black? Nope. The race of the person in the Whitehouse doesn’t detemine what I think of me. Does BO as president give me hope in great things for my children? Nope. Whatever it is they want to do will require them to work and dedicate themselves to making it happen. Will ppeople be more willing to accept my children now that BO is president elect? Nope. They will still be judged on their abilities, not the color of their skin. And there are still folks out there who will judge them on the color of their skin. It’s a fact and my children know it.
The poverty pimps and the White liberals use race as a divider and a money maker. They convince Blacks that Blacks need them to accomplish anything. They convince Blacks that America is nothing but a racist training camp filled with little KKK wannabes. The fact that America elected a Black man for president is likely going to do nothing to give a lie to the poverty pimps and the White liberals. They need their jobs.
Blacks have been so well trained for so long that we need someone to show us the way. Now the excuse is “Now, thanks to Obama, my children believe they can be anything.” This is simply a verbalization of the greatest lie that has ever been hoisted on Blacks. My number two son became an orthopaedic surgeon before Obama was elected. Before he was even nominated. One of my sons graduated from West Point and another from the Air Force Academy long before Obama even began his run for the presidency. One son is a successful (and well-paid) web developer in rural Pennsylvania and became such before the first Black man became president elect.
Obama did not open the world up to Blacks. He didn’t open the door for anyone. The door has been open. And only a few of us have been willing to take the challenge and walk through. Before that, it was a matter of being able to kick it in. And we did that too. Who, you might ask, kicked the door in? We can start with the Black units that fought in the Civil War, move up to the Buffalo Soldiers, the Tuskegee Airmen, General Chappie James, Lt General Frank E. Petersen (USMC), General Colin Powell (CHAIRMAN of the Joint Chiefs of Staff), Dr. Condoleeza Rice, Justice Clarence Thomas, a fist load of Fortune 500 CEOs, the F-16 fighter pilot who fought his way out of South Central LA, Pete Peterson the Thunderbirds Slot, and Maj. Robert Lawrence (USAF) the first Black astronaut (1966).
It’s interesting that the Liberal Whites and the poverty pimps NEVER look at these men and women who have made it on their own, who have not asked for favors, simply demanded an opportunity. Thomas, one of the most powerful men in the country, is excoriated by the poverty pimps and Liberal. And we, being the well trained, thoughtless puppies that we are, repeat the lines they feed us. Rice, a university president, has been willfully dismissed by us because the pimps and Liberals tell you what you should think about them.
Stop your whining. If you don’t like what the bakery owner said, go to him/her in Christian love (not Obama baby love) and explain why you found the statement so hurtful and offensive. If he/she demonstrates they don’t really care what you think, the consider finding another bakery to patronize and perhaps even encourage your friends to follow suit. But YOU do something about it. Don’t wait for Jesse, Al, and the rest of the liberal establishment to step in. They want you to stay dependent on them. They want you to be like the foks we saw wandering about after Katrina (an example of Liberal welfare at its
bestworst).But again, quit your whining and show your children how to bring about change. Real change you can believe in, not the empty rhetoric of an empty suit. Stop trying to find other people to be a “role model”. If nothing else, your experience should demonstrate to you that Obama becoming president doesn’t make your life any better than it was on the morning of November 4th, 2008.
-The poverty pimps and the White liberals use race as a divider and a money maker. They convince Blacks that Blacks need them to accomplish anything. They convince Blacks that America is nothing but a racist training camp filled with little KKK wannabes. The fact that America elected a Black man for president is likely going to do nothing to give a lie to the poverty pimps and the White liberals. They need their jobs.
*Likewise, the racist republican conservative pimps, claim that black folks want to take the money of hard working white people, and pad their own wallets and accounts, because they are lazy. They convince poor white folks, who would do well with an increase in the minimum wage, and semi-universal, or accessible health care, that if they voted for those who offer such things, then you are not much better than the inner city black welfare recipient, afraid to work, and are looking for manna to fall from heaven.
Whereby you have a lot of white working poor, who will vote against their own interests, simply because republican conservative, elitist pimps, have convinced them that they are on their side, when in reality-they’re not.
In other words, these repubs will pimp the average joe six pack, and hockey mom, through implied racial fear, and more disgustingly, SUPPOSED SHARED VALUES, that are biblically rooted (e.g. anti-abortion, anti-gay marriage, etc.).
Pimping goes on, on both sides, and is something that conservatives need to man up to. This isn’t to say that the liberal side doesn’t play the race card, but so does elitist republicans. They only mask their attacks differently, while using the bible, patriotism, and “heartland” values.
And the ironic thing about all of this is, you even have intelligent black folks drinking their kool aid.
(MN: Lots of generalities, little in the way of substance. You’ll have to give some examples. I was pretty specific. Conservatives don’t want nationalized health care. We don’t want all of the stuff you have mentioned. Now, the RINOs (Republicans in Name Only) do a lot of what you are talking about. In fact, they keep emulating the Dems.
One thing I need to make sure you do - you must differentiate between being a conservative and being a Republican. The two are not necessarily the same. By its very nature, Conservatism doesn’t pimp. Liberalism does. Conservatism doesn’t attempt to control your life. Liberalism always attempts to control you life. )
(Man, if I knew this post was put up, I probably wouldn’t have posted my earlier post this morning…)
I said:
-The poverty pimps and the White liberals use race as a divider and a money maker. They convince Blacks that Blacks need them to accomplish anything. They convince Blacks that America is nothing but a racist training camp filled with little KKK wannabes. The fact that America elected a Black man for president is likely going to do nothing to give a lie to the poverty pimps and the White liberals. They need their jobs.
*Likewise, the racist republican conservative pimps, claim that black folks want to take the money of hard working white people, and pad their own wallets and accounts, because they are lazy. They convince poor white folks, who would do well with an increase in the minimum wage, and semi-universal, or accessible health care, that if they voted for those who offer such things, then you are not much better than the inner city black welfare recipient, afraid to work, and are looking for manna to fall from heaven.
Whereby you have a lot of white working poor, who will vote against their own interests, simply because republican conservative, elitist pimps, have convinced them that they are on their side, when in reality-they’re not.
In other words, these repubs will pimp the average joe six pack, and hockey mom, through implied racial fear, and more disgustingly, SUPPOSED SHARED VALUES, that are biblically rooted (e.g. anti-abortion, anti-gay marriage, etc.).
Pimping goes on, on both sides, and is something that conservatives need to man up to. This isn’t to say that the liberal side doesn’t play the race card, but so does elitist republicans. They only mask their attacks differently, while using the bible, patriotism, and “heartland” values.
And the ironic thing about all of this is, you even have intelligent black folks drinking their kool aid.
Whereas Melvin said:
Lots of generalities, little in the way of substance.
My response:
That’s the general response you have towards most of my posts, to where I’ve become immune to such criticism. Well, I’m not being all that forthcoming. You see, I I haven’t become immune to such criticisms, rather I was immune to such criticisms from the beginning.
Oh well, let’s move on…
Melvin said:
You’ll have to give some examples.
My response:
What examples are you referring to? I’ve already given specific examples. They may not be the examples you like, or appreciate all that much, but I have given examples of where I’m coming from.
Melvin said:
I was pretty specific.
My response:
So was I.
Melvin said:
Conservatives don’t want nationalized health care.
My response:
I know this, and?
Melvin said:
We don’t want all of the stuff you have mentioned.
My response:
Okay?
Melvin said:
Now, the RINOs (Republicans in Name Only) do a lot of what you are talking about. In fact, they keep emulating the Dems.
My response:
In some ways, they ought to. Not everything a liberal, or dem proposes, for the social welfare of society, is evil, wicked, and hideous, you know?
Melvin said:
One thing I need to make sure you do - you must differentiate between being a conservative and being a Republican.
My response:
I already know the difference, and likewise, folks on here must know the difference between someone who’s unsaved, and voted for McCain, and someone who can be saved, yet they voted for Obama, for in the end they’re not single issue voters.
And mind you again, God is my witness-I DIDN’T EVEN VOTE FOR OBAMA, AND I’M A REGISTERED INDEPENDENT VOTER.
With that said, those who voted for Bush, and the Congress we had during the previous six years, whether they were conservative or not-they were all republican, OR FOUGHT UNDER THAT FLAG.
Melvin said:
The two are not necessarily the same.
My response:
Okay, so what’s your point?
Melvin said:
By its very nature, Conservatism doesn’t pimp.
My response:
Conservatives who are politicians, radio talk show hosts, or whoever, with an agenda to foment their beliefs, do indeed pimp, through their words. No ideology created by man, is immune of pimps.
Melvin said:
Liberalism does.
My response:
Conservatism does to…
Melvin said:
Conservatism doesn’t attempt to control your life.
My response:
That maybe true, however, they sure don’t attempt to enhance your life. Besides, conservatives, whether they were republican or democrats back in the day, have a history of trying to control folks lives, and will control more if they had the chance.
In other words, liberals control, by imposing, whereas conservatives control, by depriving…
Melvin said:
Liberalism always attempts to control you life.
My response:
Spoken like a true ideologue/libertarian…
Well said Bro Mel about the accomplishments of our forefathers and well as our own children pre-OBama!! The issue in the bakery is not my own, it’s the testimony of a young lady in the South. I do not whine. God has been too good to me, America has been good to me, and I have a healthy since of pride in the accomplishments of your kids, my kids, and Pres Elect Obama. I believe as Christians, we must stop trying TOO HARD to judge a person’s fruit. Obama has a heart for people and the same God that died for our sins and rose can save Obama. I don’t want anything or expect anything from Obama. We as Christians must use HEALING words toward our new leadership instead of hurtful words and acknowledge the 1st Family’s accomplishments. Just as you highlighted our forefathers, we must humble ourselves and rejoice for others. HEALING STARTS WITH THE TRUE CHRISTIANS and tear down the hate that’s coming via the airwaves via the likes of Hannity and Rush Limbaugh, who are so called religious right and perpetuating hate. If we develop the philosophy of, “I pray for you and you pray for me and WATCH GOD change things” this world will be better for all races.
Melvin you are right on the money. Several years ago in Michigan Jim Blanchard (white democrat) ran against Bill Lucas (black republican) for governor.The then mayor of Detroit Coleman Young urged people especially blacks to vote for Blanchard. Hizzoner Young said that Lucas was “the wrong kind of black to put into office” i.e. conservative. Even though Bill Lucas had served as Wayne county sheriff. Consequently many more white than black people voteed for Lucas. Things haven’t changed much have they?
Melvin,
They say to avoid talking about religion and politics
I say we should talk about both
If I’m understanding your point correctly, it almost implies that because your children did well and others were successful, that there is no legitimate complaint about racism.
(MN: No. I’m saying people are no more capable of realizing their dreams now than they were before Obama won the election. Nothing more. Certainly there is racism. Didn’t I tell the bakery lady to kick up a fuss? )
If you look at some of the lopsided statistics (particularly where the justice system is concerned), in order to be of this mindset you have to believe that blacks are inferior. The only other option is blacks are treated differently. (MN: Moot. I don’t believe that which you said. )
Also American racism needs to really be broke down beyond the individual bigoted statements and actions. Racism is a product of American colonialism (aka the slave trade), and racism is a lot deeper than individual statements; Racism is institutionalized and about institutions, which in turn influence how people think of others, whether they admit it or not.
(MN: Hogwash. You sound like a poverty pimp when they constantly try to flail White America into giving them money. According to them White America is guilty. White America will always be guilty. Just out of curiousity, what are the institutions in which racism is practiced? And understand here that I am talking about institution that have public, established policies of racism. For example,
1. starting with the Civil War, Blacks by Federal Policy, were initially not allowed to serve. Institutional.
2,. In the Spanish American War Blacks, By Federal Policy, were initially not allowed to serve. When they did serve, they were lied on. Institutional.
3. In the First World War, Blacks, by Federal Policy, primarily worked Morgue units - fetching the dead doughboy. Institutional.
4. At the start of WW2 Blacks were, by Federal Policy, limited to driving, kitchen and construction. They were not allowed to fight. They were not allow to fly airplanes. They were not allowed to drive tanks. Institutional.
5. Segregation in the South was legal, supported by the state, the county, and the city. Blacks, by state policy, were prohibited from voting. They were not allowed to work as Civil Servants. They were not allowed into the Academies (except with the most difficult of efforts and then they were given the silent treatment). Blacks were not allowed to go in the front door of a theater, they had to sit in the balcony at the movies, they could only visit the county fair on certain days, could only live in certain sections of the city, could only get taken care of at certain hospitals and could only go to see certain doctors. By law they had to give up their seat on a bus (if they were sitting in the front, to a White, Institutionalized.
6. Blacks and Whites were forbidden, by the states, to marry each other. Institutionalized.
Given all of these examples, what are you calling institutionalized racism? The fact that Billy Bob Jughead, a NASCAR enthusiast, doesn’t think Joe Crankshaft should be a NASCAR driver because Joe Crankshaft is Black? NOT institutionalized. )
Basically, it seems like you are doing what you accuse those who follow the pimps of doing: and that is using your personal experience to come to a conclusion that really is not based on reality or truth.
(MN: Hogwash. Your statement of my view was not true. Your definition of “institutional” is non-existent. Until you define what you mean by that term [as I have given you many, many examples of the usual definition], we are at best talking past each other.
IF you are saying racism is still out there - certainly. But I already said that. )
And the reality and truth is that black folks have a reason to complain about racism. (MN: Everyone has a reason to complain about racism [aka prejudice]. Not just Blacks. )
Peace and blessings
Hey, I’ve got to put this out here.
Obama’s own words on that “Born Alive” bill. Here’s the link: http://www.relevantmagazine.com/life_article.php?id=7591
And a brief quote:
“Ever since [the born alive bill, which was designed to overturn Roe], emails have been sent out suggesting that, somehow, I would be in favor of letting an infant die in a hospital because of this particular vote. That’s not a fair characterization, and that’s not an honest characterization. It defies common sense to think that a hospital wouldn’t provide life-saving treatment to an infant that was alive and had a chance of survival.”
If we’re going to stand up to Obama on the issue of the unborn, we need to start from the facts, which are bad enough without us resorting to exaggerating his positions. Thanks for letting me post this, brother.
Laura, don’t fall for the Obama spin. The FACT is that babies who survive failed abortions ARE left to die every day. Obama KNOWS that because he’s up to his neck in blood because of his extremely close ties to the abortion industry (illustrated by his 100% rating from the National Abortion Rights Action League.
The law was needed precisely BECAUSE this is the way babies are treated in abortion mills across the Country.
I guess Obama wants us to unquestioningly accept his claim that abortionists………who are being PAID to do the job of ridding the mother of the child……will exert all their energies to SAVING the infant they just mutilated.
To whom would they present the baby the abortionist saved?? The mother is there to see it killed, not to take home a maimed child.
Heck, the mother might even ask for a refund (GASP). Not that it would matter, because Obama will be sure to throw more of my tax dollars in the bloody pot anyway.
Man, is your only problem with Obama rooted in the abortion issue? I mean, don’t you consider him a marxist too?
Let me ask you a hypothetical question, and based on how you answer the question, will determine a lot from my end, and how I will handle the tone of a future discussion, and that is-if Obama wasn’t pro-abortion (which is the deal breaker you seem to have with this guy), would there be a possibility of you voting for him.
(MN: My dislike for Obama is not a single issue thing. I object to:
1. His Marxist leanings
2. His support for Hoosexual rights/marriage/etc
3. His Liberal/Fascist approach to governing and social organization
4. His apparent dislike for the country
5. His desire nationalize health care
6. His willingness to raise taxes on all who make more than $250K and cut a check to some of the 95% he is going to give a tax cut to
7. His apparent desire to make over our economy so that we are like Europe
8. His apparent desire to appoint Justices whose judicial philosophy will significantly change the character of this country and make even greater intrusions by the government into our lives possible.
9. His limp-wristed view toward terrorism and his desire to try terrorist in US courts.
10. His associations and alliances with men and women who have proven they hate America as it is now and would try to force us into a Marxist government. )
Or, if you didn’t vote for him, would you be as passionate in disparaging him, as you are now?
(MN: Yes. I would still have nine other things to complain about. Nine items that are very critical to the survival of this country as this country. )
And a coupla posts ago, you said something about Bill Clinton and Obama. Please refresh me with the question, or your statement addressed to me. You see, this thread is sooooooooooo long, to where I’m becoming weary of traveling up and down this site, to catch everything some addressed to me.
(MN: People railed against Clinton same as they are against Obama. No more, and certainly no less. And when Hillary “Nurse Ratchet” Clinton tried to implement what amounted to national health care, we railed against her too. It’s not about Black and White and it not just about abortion. )
Okay, now if I respond to this, the way I normally do, are you going to give me a hard time?
(MN: If it’s the way you normally do, yes. )
Watch out Melvin……….we don’t want seekerman’s kid gloves slipping off
Seriously Mel,what’s the use??
Borg.
Since Bush has been in office, have abortions increased or decreased in the country?
(MN:
From The Guttmacher Institute:
They go on to say:
And:
You can find the article and more information here.
And a bit of history of the institute is here.
)
Well, I reallly don’t know alot about Alan Keyes besides the fact that he has a reputation of being “crazy”..But i did find this interesting article on his website regarding the election. This was posted on November 3rd. Melvin i hope this isn’t too long.
By Alan Keyes
Nov. 3, 2008
“Regardless of the outcome of the Presidential election, the 2008 election cycle has been a winnowing season for all Americans who claim to be followers of Jesus Christ. Both major parties nominated individuals whose views discard the nation’s founding principle of respect for the authority of the Creator God. Faced with this circumstance, those in full possession of the facts had to make a choice for or against telling the truth. Unfortunately, many so-called Christian leaders chose to act deceitfully and pretend that John McCain is pro-life. While his record includes some actions that appear to be pro-life, and others that could not be, these opinion-shapers opted to emphasize the first and ignore the second.
(Read the rest here. )
I knew my comments would be controversial, but to those who criticized me, let me suggest that instead of congratulating yourselves on your self-righteousness so-called upholding of God’s will (which you do not know in the situation at hand, despite your belief to the contrary) think of how much you sound like the Jerry Falwell-Christian Right crowd, and how, like them, there’s not much critical thinking going on.
As much as you all would like to think you have all the answers, you don’t. God is much more liberal than you might imagine. That is because he judges our hearts. And spare me the self-righteous, idolatrous spouting off of God’s word. The Pharisees knew the law too, and just like them, your interpretations often embody the spirit, rather than the letter of the law. You have forgotten that God is still on the throne, and that he understands the circumstances that we face, and works within them.
As much as you might not like Obama, he may be a part of God’s ultimate plan. The same was true for Bush. Stop categorizing people (actual or implied) as immoral because of their choice of candidate. Stop doing so much inspection of others’ fruit and consider yourselves. The Pharisees thought they had all the right answers, too.
(MN: Actually freebird, it sounds as if you are somewhat “unthoughtful” here. I certainly see that Obama is a part of God’s plan. However, I must point out that folks are not accusing people of being immoral because of their choices. However, I, for one, am accusing people of not being consistent with their professed beliefs if they endorse Obama, especially if they endorse him as some kind of Christian. Remember - one of the first things he’s going to do is push the Freedom of Choice (aka Kill My Child Whenever I Want To) Act.
It almost sounds as if in order to be considered thoughtful, I have to agree with you. And to do otherwise is to be some kind of bigot/right wing religious nut cake. Yeah, nothing like a thoughtful exchange of ideas.
You can accuse folks of bibliolatry all you want. But when it comes down to it, Obama’s philosophies are 180 degrees out of line with Scripture.
I love it when people accuse me of being a pharisee once they discover there is no defense for their position. )
Sorry,the fact that you can say with a straight face that God excuses murder because “He looks on our hearts” is a prime example of the atrocious degree of Biblical illiteracy in the church.
Perhaps you can direct us to the places in the Bible where God “worked in the circumstances” of folks who killed their children at birth?? Some verses that say, “Yes my child, I know you placed your newborn within the fiery arms of Molech, but I understand your difficult circumstances. Don’t give it another thought. BTW, if you want to avoid this in the future, I suggest you become a homosexual.”
SMH.
We’re up to almost 140 comments on this one. I’m going to give it another day and then move on back to the pimps.
Is Obama the first president who was pro-abortion, and “pro homosexuality”, even though his being “pro gay” doesn’t call for gay marriage?
Now mind you, I didn’t vote for Obama, nor Clinton, or even McCain, because I have certain issues with these cats, but it appears as if the demonizing of Obama before his administration even begins, is highly gratuitous, petty and obscenely politicized.
(MN: No. He’s the second one. And the first one was castigated as well. But we still got the “Don’t ask don’t tell” policy in the military. )
Folks said the same thing about Clinton, and from an economic standpoint, everything turned out fine.
And to all those folks who claim that the sovereignty of God means that God approves everything that happens, whether it be good or bad-why do you think God allowed Obama to win? And if it was God’s will to have Obama win, how can some say that black folks ought to repent, for voting Obama in office? (MN: Before you natter on too much about God’s sovereignty, make sure you understand the concept. Your very question indicates you don’t understand it. )
I really believe some folks ought to get a grip, relax, and watch how things work out. Remember, it was many evangelical christians who voted Bush in office, and boy did we have a good run with him.
(MN: Actually, we can’t do anything but watch how things turn out. But as I say to my doctor when it’s time for my prostate exam: “Relax? I don’t think so.” )
Thank you Sam Smith. I didn’t put my stamp of approval on either of the canidates myself.
I said:
And to all those folks who claim that the sovereignty of God means that God approves everything that happens, whether it be good or bad-why do you think God allowed Obama to win? And if it was God’s will to have Obama win, how can some say that black folks ought to repent, for voting Obama in office?
Whereas Melvin said:
Before you natter on too much about God’s sovereignty, make sure you understand the concept. Your very question indicates you don’t understand it.
My response:
Then explain how I am wrong, within this context.
(MN: The fact that God is sovereign doesn’t remove our responsibility to that which is right. God is sovereign in all things, even the mistreatment of a child. But the mistreater is responsible for his actions. Certainly God sovereignly raised Obama. But the Christian who promoted him and who tries to defend his actions is responsible for his own actions. As Gary said a few posts back, God’s sovereignty does not negate my responsibility. )
I said:
I really believe some folks ought to get a grip, relax, and watch how things work out. Remember, it was many evangelical christians who voted Bush in office, and boy did we have a good run with him.
Melvin said:
Actually, we can’t do anything but watch how things turn out. But as I say to my doctor when it’s time for my prostate exam: “Relax? I don’t think so.”
My response:
It was a figure of speech…
(MN: But your “figure of speech” seemed to be directed at the statements being made. One of the things some of the folks on the thread will be doing is gong out and making a bunch of noise. Relaxing, to me, means not saying anything, not kicking up a fuss, just relaxing. )
how can one have a resposability and not have a FREE will???
(MN: Yes. )
What’s “reposability?”
(MN: Responsibility)
yes what????
Time, there are older posts on this very topic. I am not completely sure if Melvin wants to go through the whole thing again on the site. I would be more than happy to do so, but he is the benevolent dictator and not I.
I think everyone is forgetting three very important things:
1. God elects our officials. Whether good or bad we vote what is in our hearts and I do believe that the Holy Spirit guides us
2. When it comes to abortion, God may judge Obama for making it easy to get an abortion but the one who actually gets the abortion will be judge for it. We are all suppose to know God and his word and will be out of excuses on judgement day. If God was into blaming other people about the decisions we make then Adam would not have been thrown out the Garden of Eden when he placed the blame on Eve. We want to blame one man for all abortions and homosexual marriages? Will God blame him for these acts or the people who actually commit them?
3. God never left it to the government to save souls. He left it to the church. People save souls not laws. All the people who are against him how many abortion clinics have you been to to talk to the women about Jesus and that there is another way? If we put down a man for his actions I hope our actions make up for it. Many of us sit at home and do nothing for these innocent babies but vote. I am almost sure that is not going to fly with God especially when we are so passionate about the subject. Actions speak louder than words.
Obama is a man not a demigod. He is fallible and frail like every other man and too much is being put into him or read into him. He is not the messiah or the Antichrist. He is the 44th president of the US. That is it. Just like all the other Bafoons before him. He will make mistakes. He will have victories and he is not in control. God is and Christians should know that more than anybody.
Put your faith in God not Obama and you will see a different picture. Obama can not pass one law if God does not ordain it so relax. I am quite suprise at the lack of faith on this board.
Perhaps God elected Obama so people can really look into their own heart.
Last I know God did not ask any of us what we thought of any president he elected and why should he ask now. I think this shows a total lack of faith in God’s sovereignty then anything else. Events will unfold they way Heaven wants it to. I am not saying we are to sit still and do nothing but when something does not go your way when you felt you have done the right thing either trust in your God that he is in charge or examine your heart to make sure it is pure and clean or do both.
Amen!
Why not go to him and share the Word with him. I am tired of so many Christians talking about this subject but run to the media to put down Obama. Does the Bible tells the believer to go to the brother and correct him? He sat under the false teaching of Wright and the United Church of Christ. However, he left that Church. God is in control. Please do what the Bible tells us to do. Pray for him. I have a feeling that he will not do any of the things you think he might do.
(MN: And now you are sounding even more cloud living. Would you care to explain how Joe Average is supposed to “go to him”? )
“I have a feeling that he will not do any of the things you think he might do.”
(A) That is teh dangerous thing…..as Christians, is this acceptable? Are we to endorse one who we believe is deliberately giving false info to gain entry into office?
Shall we sin (deliberatly lie) so that the grace of God can about more? Paul answered this question very specifically.
In an invterview with Dr James Dodson, Gov Palin said, that God was going to do the right thing for America on Nov 4th. Is God still in control or what? Yes! There were Christians praying for and against Obama, is God confused. No! No matter who govern this nation it is still just a kingdom in this world. Jesus said that his kingdom is not of this world and we pray that his kingdom come. In this world, anyone can rule if elevated, but Jesus is the Lord and King of those who believe. If Obama is as bad as many make him out to be, that’s good. Why, because that brings humanity that much closer to seeing the return of Christ. Who knows maybe in our lifetime.