Apparently the Holy Spirit uses the internet to inspire Fast Eddie.
Right after the Virginia Tech massacre, Fast Eddie walked into the sanctuary and stated that the Holy Spirit had a message for them. He (Fast Eddie, not the Holy Spirit) then proceeded to preach a message he called “Act of Man or Act of God?” But apparently, the message didn’t come from the Holy Spirit. It came from Sermons.com. This according to the Atlanta Constitution Journal.
For now, let’s ignore the fact that Fast Eddie plagiarized a sermon, pretended that he wrote it on his own. The important issue is that the sermon was written by a contributor to Preach.com, not Eddie Long.
We know, according to the sheeple who attend Club Newbirth, that Eddie Long is a prophet and has a powerful anointing. He’s a man of God with powerful faith, etc., etc., etc. Okay, a question for you: Were the people jumping out of their seats because of Fast Eddie’s supposed anointing? I mean, if he didn’t write it, if the Holy Spirit didn’t move his spirit to write the words, then why are his dupes busy talking about how anointed he is? Surely it was the author of the sermon who, as the sheeple keep saying, was anointed. Right?
But let’s keep going. How anointed is a man who is too lazy to write his own material and too dishonest to tell the sheeple that he didn’t write it? It turns out, according to the article, that he has even been selling CDs with the sermon that he didn’t write; and not a word attributing the sermon to anyone else. So he makes a couple of thousand bucks by pretending (aka lying) he created the sermon.
But more than that, notice what one of his sycophantic followers says:
Ben Jakes, a New Birth elder, said Long’s Virginia Tech sermon revealed that God can orchestrate circumstances so that preachers deliver the same message across the nation. “I really believe it’s an act that shows honor and respect for [God],” Jakes said. “You’re basically communicating a unified message.”
Right. And the rapist said he did it to show his admiration for the female form. Or maybe the bank robber was simply trying to collect more artifacts to honor a thriving capitalist society.
Long said that the Holy Spirit had a message for them. Unfortunately the sheeple only listened to Fast Eddie’s words. The message the Holy Spirit had for them was that Fast Eddie is a wolf and a con man. The message was that they should get away from him as quickly as possible; that they should get out of there and never look back.
But from what Elder Jakes said, a lot of them are already either brain dead or spirit dead, or both. What Jakes said has got to be the lamest excuse for Fast Eddie’s plagiarism we are likely to hear any time soon.
(MN:A tip o’the hat to Tweet for finding this.)
She implied the...
In lieu of an initial comment here, I’ll mention that I’ve got some coverage about this in a post on my blog.
I did not mention the tape selling, because when I was there all the money from tape sales was SUPPOSED TO BE given to kids for scholarships or something of that sort. We were given the impression that Long does not take a dime of church tape sales of his sermons. So until I learn that he’s pocketing some money from tape sales I’ll leave that aspect of this alone.
(MN: You may very well be right about the money from the sale of tapes. On the other hand, using the money for scholarships is like paying for groceries with money I stole. The foods’ good, but the foundation is still bad. And besides that, it still makes Fast Eddie look good. )
Agreed. And I know we were told that tapes of weekly sermons (not the ones he makes into a specially packaged series or puts a fancy cover on) were for “the children”, but I don’t know about the DVD sales.
I do know that the State of GA made him start charging sales tax on all the tape sales, although he says he told them it was for scholarships. Which always made me wonder…a little.
He’s selling that “Act Of Man Or Act Of God” sermon on Tape and DVD right on their web site. $10 for the tape, $20 for the DVD. I remember when tapes were just $5. I’d guess the “bookstore” must now have paid employees and are now the reason why prices are about double what they used to be. And if there is a payroll…
I’m guessing there is more to it than we know.
IC,
What is disturbing about this is the fact that a Church “so-called” would be in the business of giving out college scholarships. Like Melvin said why would anyone support a college fund if their intent is to support a ministry. You would think that the proceeds would go to spreading the gospel. Actually in a way it is quite brilliant on Fast Eddies part. I mean think about it. If you invest in education there is a greater likelihood of college grads obtaining higher salary jobs. By investing in his young followers now he will be able to siphon off them later. Brilliant!
Kyle
What I cannot understand is why is buying and selling in the church become okay?? Is there anyone out there that remember that Jesus whipped those that bought and sold out of the church and said that they have turned his Father’s house into a den of theives. If Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever would he not feel the same way about anyone selling anything in their churches????
Well I was going to respond to Kyle and say that it probably is a bad idea for the church to play the role of “college fund” when there are poor saints in need, then I read your response Michelle
.
It’s like Kyle was thinking outside of Long’s prescribed box, and Michelle you’ve done one better. I was still DEEP in the box
. Thank you all for pulling me out!
I have to agree with Michelle. What is the deal with marketing on behalf of the “church” in the first place? The media should either be free or simply not be at all. It should be funded off the freely given donations of those who desire to give to the work of the church.
Now I’ve found churches that are not telling people to pay tithes, but I’ve NEVER…EEEVER found a church that was not selling a little something, be it inspirational calendars for the church anniversary or something. Even the church groups that have accepted the hit that comes when they tell people they can actually give freely end up selling a little something now and then, for something.
I just had a funny thought. The Jehovah’s Witness cult does not mandate tithes, but they ask people for money when they go door to door. It’s like they are begging the heathen for support of what they consider to be a “church”
. That’s just a hilarious thought! They wish to separate themselves so much, but they are out begging everybody for “just 50 cents 
. That Watchtower Society has one wicked scam going!
IC,
You have to admit it is nonetheless pretty savvy if you think of it. But then again it may backfire seeing that the more education the less likely they would fall for his scam.
Kyle
Eddie Long’s club is full of HIGHLY educated and successful business people. You are right that it helps him to help himself so to speak.
The “mega” church totally caters to the lifestyle of the on-the-go business types. People focused on their careers and not taking time to read the Bible, never mind trying to get the context of things in the Bible correct.
My theory regarding the boom of this false money doctrine and mega-churches, is that many people transplant to new areas for their career. A pimp sets up shop in that town and develops a doctrine that plays to the desires of people who are upwardly mobile and looking towards success in the business world. From there, the rest comes kind of easy for a pimp. Like everyone else, often the pimp is from out of town, so nobody knows where the pimp came from or any of the pimps history. Everybody wants a nicely packaged sermon and to go home happy. So the pimp can eliminate most of the duties of Elders and Deacons who might otherwise have oversight and the pimp gets away with it without a peep from the lay members. Eddie Long told us how he answers only to God and not a Deacon board and we were like “sure ya right”. He was eliminating all oversight and we were all for it. We certainly were fools.
IC,
Good point, just look at willow boy Osteen and his mega Church. You don’t get any more phony picturesque than his congregation.
To Michelle-Jesus never beat them out of a church, He beat them out of the temple. That’s the difference Michelle. Jesus never told anyone to erect buildings and call them churches- man started this stuff. The called out body of believers is the Church not a building. It seems very simple but we get very mad about this word church. This tradition of calling church a building and comparing it with the temple is unbibical. You can never go to Church or leave the Church nor can man put you out of the Church because he doesn’t have one.
Jesus said in Matthew 16:18
I will build [MY] church- and He’s referring to people. That’s why the unredeemed say they go to church just like you, because of traditions of men. Look at how they pimp these people by using the word church out of context.
1Corinthians 6:19 You are the temple. We say we know this already, then why don’t we correct it? Because of traditions and the fear of man.
(MN: No. It’s For the same reason I say “the sun sets…” rather than “the earth rotates, moving us into the umbra of the Earth’s bulk to the point that the Earth’s bulk finally blocks my view of the sun completely.” One is much more accurate and true than the other. It’s also much more cumbersome. Most of us who understand this distinction between the church and the buildings the church meets in simply see no reason to constantly remind people about it without a good reason. And casual conversation is usually not a good reason. It certainly isn’t because I’m afraid of the Catholic Church or the Flat Earth Society. )
P.s. So don’t get upset with what they do inside their buildings.
Derrrick, the essential concept being discussed in this little sidebar, is do you feel a “church” as in a group of saints, should market a minister’s items when they gather for worship, prayer, study and other meetings? Should they be marketed for a fee at all? I say no on both counts.
What say you?
Inde C, May I chime in, I agree with you. In a true setting the body is equal? all minister to the need, their’s no “more annotated” “high seat” ” no one needed to “get a break through”. Iron will sharpen iron, so their’s nothing to sell it’s a family gathering, I mean what do we sell at family gatherings but maybe t-shirts (smile), since their are no apostles, apostles that were given to guide the young assemble before the completion of the bible; we now have and have had for sometime the Word of God in our hands, we have each been in-powered by the spirit of truth the Holy Spirit through the word of God to encourage one another, lift up and inspire one another to morn, laugh, cry and enlighten one another, since we serve each other (minister) what’s the reason for a so called pastor, leader, pope, etc.
To IC, First of all, no, I don’t agree with marketing any minister period. Aren’t we all ministers of the gospel in these days? As far as I’m concerned, the gospel is completed and they all need to get a JOB! And don’t tell me their job is to feed me from the same Bible I’m holding in my hands right now. Unless I’m illiterate, I don’t need anyone to read to me, and I’m sure not supporting no self-called pastor or apostle. They need to be like Paul and continue to work so that they won’t be a burden to the people. Frankly, I’m tired of all this self promotion. Get my book, my tape, my cd, this anointed series etc.
Secondly, I don’t see a problem with the saints buying or selling in general. Once prayer/worship or bible study is over- what’s wrong with a sister selling Avon or Mary Kay, or a parent selling candy for their kids? Why shouldn’t the saints support one another’s businesses? But to say a “minister” alone has the right or privilege to sell- no way.
Regarding your first point, you speak as if I would disagree with you. I’m not sure what gave you that impression. Although it is important to know that Paul did not always work of his own hands. For example, he did utilize a gift from the churches at Macedonia to sustain himself when needed. Just the same, I agree these self appointed pastors of today need to go get a job. They are only traveling to collect money. And now even the minister of music takes a cut of the collection. And they travel for pay just like the pastors. Along with the “buy my CD” pitch!
On your 2nd point, I don’t think saints should leverage a church assembly/meeting for profit, period.
(MN: So you’re saying it’s not the building but the gathering? )
Correct, if we are gathering to give glory to God, don’t come at me trying to peddle stuff. Even afterwards. Just go home and if you’ve got something to sell, market yours like everyone else markets theirs in the open marketplace.
If we are the church, don’t bring your Avon to our assembly.
I’ve seen the peddling done after services and if you are not getting pimped inside the assembly there are folks trying to hit your pockets on the way out.
On a related side note, I recall when Eddie Long allowed employers to use service time to tell people about job openings. It ended up with people going up and saying things like “I’ve got jobs for everybody that needs a job”…doing things like selling Amway products! Needless to say, pimp Long realized some other pimps were trying to get in and ended it
.
hi i c. i’d like to chime in on your discussion w/ dtg about the buying or selling issue. i’d really like to know what is it about it, that you don’t like? shouldn’t people be free to solicit other believers when the assembly has dismissed from whatever they were gathered for? i think networking is great and besides, who has the right to tell me that once we have dismissed that i can’t approach my Christian family and extend to them an offer, or business card? personally, i would like very much if a brother let me know that he is a mechanic and told me where his shop was. imagine my delight to find an HONEST MECHANIC at last!!! you say that you don’t want anyone soliciting you and you have every right not to be approached, ( and i believe once people know your feelings about this matter that they will refrain from coming to you) but you can’t, nor should a pastor legislate that rule and make it binding on everyone else once they leave the congregation. i could see if the church was using your home to meet in, and after we dismissed, you wouldn’t want anyone to buy or sell anything. that would be understandable for it is your home. but once we got outside, say on the sidewalk or in the vestibule of an apt. building- would you still be offended that saints were trading business cards? we are all consumers and i don’t equate it to being hit up on the way out. what’s so hard about saying no thank you to whatever is being offered? i’ve been offered primerica, noni juice, aloe vera, amway, perfumes/jewelry, babysitting, pre-paid legal, school candy -you name it LOL. i said no thank you to all except pre-paid legal. and i was happy to be helping a brother out with his business. i’m not trying to be funny in any way, but even if a saint was selling their wares in the open market place- how would they inform the brethren without approaching them some kind of way to let them know where they’re located? just trying to get some understanding of your position.
blessings & peace 2u
Money changing should be done away from the assembly of the saints. The “den of thieves” desires to have its self within the church and allowing peddling before, during or after the assembly fully opens the door to that.
Just because the peddler comes to you after a church meeting is not any kind of seal of honesty. I am sure that anyone who has been a Christian for some time can attest to the FACT that some of the WORST businesspeople are those they have met via inner church business networking. Now you might say, oh well then everyone knows not to do business with someone who is not honest. How is this any different from the open marketplace and the job of the Better Business Bureau, that has far more people offering input?
If a Christian is doing good business, they can and should compete in the open marketplace, rather than using the assembly of the saints as a business opportunity.
Yes Jesus tossed the money changers out of a man made temple and they have no place in the assembly of the saints, even after the assembly ends and the mass is still ripe for the picking. The body of Christ is being pimped before, during and after meetings by all forms of folks, that claim it’s being done for some sort of “kingdom networking”. It’s a ridiculous front for exploiting saints for the sake of money changing.
I’ve seen so many of our elderly saints abused by this mess I’ve honestly lost count. Oh, what are the deacons supposed to start inspecting businesses now? Are saints supposed to exclude spending to just people who claim to be saints? Should we just cordon ourselves off from the world in little Christian sub-divisions then? It’s already happening down here in TN. I’ll have no part of it.
How many con-men have to abuse the assembly of the saints before folks understand that what Jesus did in tossing out the money changers is fully applicable to hustlers setting up shop before, during and/or after your assembly today?
Should a politician be allowed to grand stand in a church meeting? If not, why would it be good to have it taking place just after a meeting, why the politician can still take advantage of the saints having been gathered together? Same goes for peddling.
If you are an honest Christian businessperson, do business in the open market and your high standards will ensure people know of you.
What do you make of businesses opening up shop inside of that “building”, so you can get a bite to eat after the assembly is over?
Folks, it’s wrong. Please don’t condone it any more.
IC, Re:What do you make of businesses opening up shop inside of that “building”, so you can get a bite to eat after the assembly is over?
It doesn’t bother me at all because like I’ll keep saying, it’s NOTHING but a building. It’s not the house of God so there’s nothing to defile. Obviously, we have different thoughts about “that building”. Now I have a question for you- is there any significance to “that building”?
IC, I know you’ve been beaten down with all the so called kingdom business garbage from being with club afterbirth- I hear your cry for justice. You were pimped and
spiritually abused and now you’re saying ALL types of buying and selling should cease in and OUT of “that building”. I agree with you that the merchandising, money changing or whatever you want to call it- should have no place during ’service’. But we’re going to have to agree to disagree on what saints have the freedom to do when the assembly dismisses. You believe it’s wrong- I don’t.
I see now that if you were a “pastor”, you would tell “your members” who attend “YOUR church”, that there’ll be no money changing inside or OUTside of “this building”. Lording over the sheep. The same way you’re passionate about your position, is the same way I am about a self-called pastor telling me what I can and cannot do. Prove to me through the Scriptures that moneychanging is not permitted outside “that building”. I am not talking about THE TEMPLE , THAT BUILDING, that USED to be the House of God. Not “these buildings”. My friend, this is what I’m talking about- Liberty. As long as I don’t use my liberty in Christ for sin, I’m free to abide by the dictates of my own conscience and so are you.
We agree that it’s a building, but we disagree on when it is appropriate to conduct business.
I live near a place that is used for Christian worship on Sunday and is a barbershop the other 6 days of the week. I’ve got no problem with that. Once the barbershop starts seeking to make business off the fact an assembly of the saints is trying to exit, then I’ll say there is a problem.
What else do you feel should take place as the saint’s exit an assembly? How about politicians with bull horns campaigning as you exit?
I say, conduct the business of man some other time. I’ve already provided scripture and my exposition on it, but you have not provided any to show otherwise. When did the apostles allow meat selling outside of an assembly? I mean think about it, somebody could have made some big money. They could have had signs like “Meat never used for Idols - Apostle approved”
.
IC, what a passion you have for this topic, again selling the word of God is just plain exploitation. With that said, understand that these buildings are not “The House Of God” there is no sin or can any disrespect be done in them, they are just a place of gathering, their can be no significance attached to them. We the community of believers gather to pray worship cry joke play becoming a community in these buildings, now the operative word here is community “a group of people with a common characteristic or interest living together within a larger society” are we not to support one another spiritually as well as naturally economically and politically ? The need’s of the saints are not limited to just spiritual needs, we need to learn a lesson from the world, “the children of the world are wiser then the children of the light” in order to become less dependent economically on the world we need to become economically dependent on each other. Now the Pimps do it to exploit their hoe’s but their also doing it with their rendition of the word, to glorify God the approach of the true community of Christians should always be with humility and thanks giving that God has allowed us to provide a service for one another. With out question we must hold ourselves to a higher standard before the saints then to the world or the pimps thus provoking the world and the pimps to jealousy.
And Gladiator (Derrrick), you do realize that when a sandwich shop sets up in a “building” owned by a “church”, that the shop pays the church fees for the privilege of having their shop in the “building”. This makes the “church” a direct partner with a money changer. Spin it however you like, that’s money changing in the temple, as in money changing in the body of Christ. The church having direct involvement with and benefiting from money changing as a church.
I say, toss it out.
Stop allowing money changers to take advantage of the assembly of the saints.
IC, if you want to see church peddling go to West Angeles Church of God in Christ on Sundays and you will see some stuff even on the streets its a mess. That would be here in Los Angeles, Bishop Blake.
To Melvin: I do realize that you read the posts before you post them and so me reminding certain people about the Church not being the building would sound redundant. But here’s my take on it. You said if we see error we should correct it. No matter how many times someone new tells you to keep your mouth of God’s people, you yet have to repeat what you’ve said for the new person who makes that comment. You don’t assume they’ve already read your other posts where you clarify your position. (obviously they haven’t) That’s all I’m doing. I know what Michelle meant but she doesn’t know what she meant because she wouldn’t be comparing these places with the Temple that Jesus overthrew the money changers in. I don’t assume that many people read what I have to say, so don’t take it personal, I’m not talking to you or trying to remind you (or all the others who already know this). You and others still use church all the time even though I know that you know there’s a distinction but I don’t say anything. It’s just that when someone uses it in the context of these buildings somehow being the “house of God” or like the Jewish Temple that I think they should be aware of the error. That’s all, nothing more- nothing less.
(MN: Here’s my take - pointing out that the incident happened in the Temple was fine. A simple “but don’t forget - the church is not a building, the saints are” would have been sufficient. It might even have generated a question on her part if in fact she really didn’t undrstand [and I will grant that it seems likely she did not understand.] However, no harm done and certainly no offense taken. )
IC, what a passion you have for this topic, again selling the word of God is just plain exploitation. With that said, understand that these buildings are not “The House Of God” there is no sin or can any disrespect be done in them, they are just a place of gathering, their can be no significance attached to them. We the community of believers gather to pray, worship cry joke play as we become a community, now the operative word here is community “a group of people with a common characteristic or interest living together within a larger society” are we not to support one another spiritually naturally economically and politically ? The need’s of the saints are not limited to just spiritual needs, we need to learn a lesson from the world, “the children of the world are wiser then the children of the light” in order to become less dependent economically on the world we need to become economically dependent on each other. Now the Pimps do it to exploit their sheep but to glorify God the approach of the true community of Christians should always be with humility and thanks giving that God has allowed us to provide a service to one another. Without question we must hold ourselves to a higher standard thus provoking the world and the pimps to jealousy.
Derrrick the Gladiator: I know what the true temple of God is however, that does not change the fact that whether church or temple it was still a building made with hands and they were whipped out of the TEMPLE (if that makes you feel better) for buying and selling.
They were whipped & chastised for buying and selling to the people.
If the people were not there…..would this have occurred? No.
The people being subdued into merchandise (as they gathered at the Temple) was the point.
The Father was being insulted as the people he was reaching out for were being re-directed by thise whom were out for profit only.
I am just sticking to the facts, we do not know that they were being subdued (the bible did not say that). One person has to sell and one has to buy right? If I want to make money I am going to go where people are. It is not major math. And those pastors that sell to those that come to their churches are doing it for a profit…sooooooooooo what is your point Gridiron?
To Michelle, what do I have to feel better about? You’re the one who was getting all upset about people buying and selling in the “church”. If you know that these buildings aren’t the “temple” then what do you care whether people buy or sell in it?
Your statement [ I know what the true temple of God is however, that does not change the fact that whether church or temple it was still a building made with hands] WHAT IN THE WORLD DOES THIS HAVE TO DO WITH BUYING AND SELLING? No kidding, it was made with hands, what is your point?
excellent–if it is simply a buidling-what is the issue with buying and selling?
or–is there actually some significance of this temple made by human hands? It is either one or the other, but not both
I’m not shocked. (MN: Before I can post this comment, I need some documentation. I am not doubting your statement, but the rule is I can’t make a statement or relay one without documentation in hand. ) I didn’t stop attending right then and there, but I knew there was no way to justify that.
Wow Mel, where did you uncover this info?? Amazingly enough, TD Jakes has gone on record (from his pulpit) condemning “sermon stealers”, and this is a man (Long) in his inner circle with regard to back scratching.
I wonder what TD would (or wouldn’t) have to say about this?!?!
Thanks for this uncovering…..this is TOO VALUABLE of a visual of the truth. Much Thanks to however and whomever pointed this out.
(MN: Tweet and Keith sent a message, and IC has a posting on his site. )
I’d forgive TD Jokes for stealing a sermon or two, as long as it was sound doctrine for a change
And you know, Long calls TD his “father”.
Well, like father, like son…
That is due to this whole spiritual father nonsense where the jr. pimplings give honor to their fathers in pimponomics.I saw this mess when I went to this so called Missionary Baptist church in Okinawa where they were promoting Benny Hinn and holy laughter.This is just another example of the trash theology that has soiled the very place that Christ is supposed to come back for.
I am a former member of NB, and I am now free from that deception and madness, because of the wonderful work of the Holy Spirit.
He( the Holy Spirit) greatly convicted me by showing me that I had encouraged that heresy by having “itching” ears for lies, instead of the Truth.
So,once we realize our error, it is absolutely necessary that we fully accept responsibility for our own sin and ask God to forgive us for embracing false teaching.This is the only way that we can enjoy the Lord’s wonderful freedom, peace, and healing.
Incidentally, Bishop Long and many other apostate preachers started out preaching sound doctrine, but they later fell into the traps of lust, greed, and pride, which are temptations for everyone.
So, this can serve as a warning to all of us who think we stand.
Anyone can fall!
(MN: Amen on that last! )
Please remove name and email address from blog.
Thanks.
Enlightened
Enlightened, you are the only one who sees that info on the posting area. It’s invisible to everyone else.
Ok.
Thanks you
“Desperatepreacher.com also has profound words for people to say.”
“Eddie Long runs scams and games to get money.”
How much longer, Saints, will you WILLFULLY be led to the slaughter?
THERE’S my Beryle!!! I’ve missed you sistah!!
Dude this is hilarious! I don’t even know if I can get amazed anymore. Hey at least the little black preachers in the ghetto are coming up with their own sermons, while Mr. Whitehouse here, is stealilng oh I mean borrowing them. I sent the link to my friends. I can’t get it together over here.
That’s about how I feel.
Also, maybe he can borrow some sermons from his homegirl Paula White, she says she was a better preacher than Paul!
Mr. Woods. Paula White stated this (better preacher than the Apostle Paul) ?!?! Wow, I would hope not. That would be Apostacy Gone Wild Volume I.
Melvin,
I have just looked at Paula Whites financials and it is quite telling. BTW I have an undergrad in Business. I have taken Accounting 1, Accounting 2, business finance, Financial accounting, and managerial accounting. Lets first discuss the financials themselves. These statements are “consolidated” which means the accounts have been exactly that, consolidated. Doing so prevents you or I or anyone from getting exact figures on her salary. This in itself is not illegal but if she was so open about these things she would give the complete statements. However with a little deconstruction we can tell a lot. First, her salary would come out of the Management and General account located in the Expense section of the Income Statement. The amount in the Management and General account is 5.7 million dollars. What was Paula’s cut we can’t tell from a consolidated financial statement. That being said we do know that her salary is a portion of that huge amount. Now as for her statement of Cash flows she is sitting on 8.2 million dollars. As for her assets of her airplane and cars they are worth 3.64 million. This number can be found in the notes section. On Page 13 of the financials you will see that there deposits in a credit union exceed 9 million dollars. Melvin this is bad , very bad. I would like an actual accountant to dissect this even more.
http://www.paulawhite.org/images/Documents/auditfinancials.pdf
I guess you saw that video too. She’s a real vipress. (female viper)
I had to make a post of that when I saw it.
Good grief…………how deceived/stupid can one Rod Parsley wannabe woman preacher GET???
GaryV,
At least Rod Parsley gives out better trinkets than Paula. LOL! Have you ever seen the cheap sword you can get if you pledge a $1000. Besides, isn’t that kind of dangerous to have that thing laying around with kids in the house. LOL!
Kyle
IC,
Have you ever gone to Paula Whites website? You will be happy to know that her all women’s retreats include day spas and manicures. Talk about being lost. Oh this is bad, real bad. Here is a link to her website. I didn’t notice anything about Jesus on her site. Melvin this is such a whopper you may even be able to create a new post. I don’t even know where to start. Would you like the seed sowing in the upper right corner, the health and wellness, the life by design with T Dexter, or take a look here in the lower left. You can actually see their financials. Hmmm, they claim that 81% goes to the missions. Lets all take a closer look. Click link below.
http://www.paulawhite.org/
Oh man Kyle, it’s worse than the last time I went there.
It’s interesting going to a supposed minister of the Gospel of Jesus Christ’s web site and seeing her there in a tight workout top with some dude who is not her husband, with his arm around her. The dude has more covered than the supposed minister!
Not that two people posing for a pic is bad, but it’s bad when you are supposed to be a minister and playing up PHYSICAL fitness!
No offense meant towards Denise Austin, but even Austin’s site has more dignity. I’m not trying to bash the workout-thing, but seeing a supposed minister doing it from her home page just does not “fit”.
I’m not saying women can’t wear workout gear, but seeing it on a supposed minister’s front page is not “working” for me.
Hey, why didn’t Paula White hook up with Eddie Long? He could wear one of his muscle shirts and they could make a video! Maybe it would look like this supposed church meeting. Notice the guy tries to spin on 1 Timothy 4:8. It’s amazing how the “workout craze” has Christians bending scripture over backwards (no pun intended) to support their desires to worship their own bodies. I’m not bashing people who work out, but people who try and claim it’s for God need to admit the truth, it’s for yourself! That’s why the physical stuff profits little. I don’t care to get sick, I try and take care of myself (a little), but the whole “body is the temple” statement has been twisted from spiritual to physical matters and ends up making you worry about things that are not eternal.
I don’t know who is funnier. Paula White, Eddie Long, or Benny Hinn. What will they say next? The sad part is that they will have to continue to get more sensational as they go and they are going to pull a Carlton Pearson and are going to take a lot of people with them.
IC, Mr Woods,
I have seen some bad sites from these pimps but after perusing her site I’m absolutely shocked. At least the other Pimps throw a Cross on their site or at least mention Jesus somewhere on there. I had no clue what I was seeing when I looked at the site. Well, at least Fast Eddie will say, “watch this, watch this”. LOL! Paula on the other hand uses subliminal messages in skimpy outfits, “watch me, watch me”.
Kyle
the Apostle Paul was so boring that he put a man to sleep and the man fell out of a window.
Could it be that the man was just tired from staying up all night?
She says she has yet to put somebody to sleep while preaching, but think of all the people that are being mislead! Paul never mislead anybody. the woman thinks to highly of herself and I do believe the bible says that we should not do.
wow, i find it remarkable how people can run Paul’s name through the mud. Where is the respect?
Deb D, I posted a link about some of the other things Paula and her Husband have been up to.
Indeed the scripture said he (Paul) was long preaching but definently NOT Boring.
wow, that was a bold statement! I have heard Paula preach a few times and like jakes, jones, mcclendon, morton, long, duplantis, price, etc, i have really wondered what do they have to say that so important that some would pay them thousands of dollars to say it. It blows my mind that these few so called preachers have that kind of clout with the church world. Paul, the apostle never charged when he preached Gods word. If the body of Christ would go back and read the book of Acts she would see that she is being duped by todays church standards.
The first thing Paula has to know is that God never affirmed a woman to be a pastor! Nowhere in the New Testament or Church was there ever a “female” pastor, bishop etc. The Bible makes it clear that a woman cannot usurp authority over a man.
ha ha ha ha!!!, i suppose websites will have to start submitting their material to the Library of Congress in order to copyright it.
You see Melvin you got it all wrong. Fast Eddie is like God’s Google. Eddie’s Holy Ghost Satellite circles the earth finding sermons through his DSL (Devious Snakes Lie) service. Once his direct connection to the Lord is established Jesus personally downloads sermons to his man of God. Eddie is merely being a humble servant and fleecing er, uh, I mean feeding the flock. By the way have you noticed that God never fixed your computer yet Fast Eddies is not only up and running but his has a direct link to God for the sole purpose of downloading sermons? Maybe if you provided a love gift to TBN or got a prayer cloth from Rod Parsley or better yet some anointing oil you too could have a direct link to God like Fast Eddie. OH! I gotta go Benny Hinn is on. I’ll be back as soon as I send him my rent money. He promised me God would return it back 100 fold.
Kyle
I’m saddened by this…
All I have to say is this:
(MN:Michele, I let it go the first SEVERAL times but you are only getting worse. You are not contributing to the discussion if all you do is quote a Scripture. Expound on it. And please, unless it’s essential to the discussion, reference the scripture, don’t cut and paste it. It takes up bandwidth and slows folks down. )
(Jer 23:1-40)
I am sorry if this bothers you however, it does relate to what is being discussed and there is no need to add to what the Lord has to say…he can sum things up alot better than any of us can. After all his word is going to stand even when this blog is gone!!!
(MN: Yes, you are quite right. God’s word will be here long after this blog is gone. But that has nothing to do with you following the rules. And if you reference it in a link, we get to see God’s eternal word.
I don’t ask for much from people who comment here. Please follow the rules or don’t feel as though you have to contribute. I have certainly enjoyed what YOU have said so far. But posting a verse or section doesn’t contribute to the discussion. After all, I don’t know what you think the verse is saying, now do I?
If what I understand you to be saying is completely valid, then a preacher never need do more than pick a section of scripture, read it out loud, and sit down. But that is not what is done even in the very Bible we are discussing. In the old testament (Nehemiah 8:3, 7) the Word is explained, not simply thrown out there like a lump of dough. In the New Testament, the Word (from the Old Testament) was explained (start with Acts 2:16 and following) first by Peter, Stephen, and a host of others. I suspect you think it is “spiritual” to drop a load an run on. It may be. But it’s not especially helpful in this environment. The dialog is helpful to most of the people who visit. If you are not trying to help them, then there is not particular reason for you to contribute.
Agreed?
Please stay within the rules. )
Actually, I beg to differ on a few things: the preacher is to read more than a section of scripture. Also being that the scriptures are explainations (2Peter 1:20 says: Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation) there is really no need for an explaination that is why in Col 4:16 it says: And when this epistle is READ among you, cause that it be READ also in the church of the Laodiceans; and that ye likewise read the epistle from Laodicea. And in 1Thes. 5:27 it says: I charge you by the Lord that this epistle be READ unto all the holy brethren. There are also other scriptures that say the scriptures are to be read (that’s it that’s all) Such as in Luke it says that Jesus read the Isaiah scroll as they did EVERY sabbath (not quoting exactly) but, that is how you cause the Word of God to be heard. There are also scriptures that say: if any man speak let him speak as the oracles of God. And Paul tells us to follow the traditions that he has set either by word or his epistle. In Romans 2:16 Paul says: God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel. In Jeremiah 23:22 it says: But if they had stood in my counsel, and had caused my people to hear my words, then they should have turned them from their evil way, and from the evil of their doings. So contrary to popular belief, I think I will go with the Lord on this one.
That is what he is furious about.
(MN: Much better. And I think you are right. However, I suspect that the letters were not simply read, but explained. That perhaps is one of the reasons Peter talks about the pimps twisting Scripture to their own destruction. It would also be why several of the apostles talked about someone not staying faithful to the original teachings. )
Once again - Sad. Sad. Sad.
“I really believe it’s an act that shows honor and respect for [God],” Jakes said. “You’re basically communicating a unified message.” - This guy’s gotta be kidding. So God condones plagiarism and theft now? That’s not God communicating a unified message. That’s copying someone else’s homework.
I’m not a Bishop Long fan by any means, but I’m really embarrassed for him on this one. Of course that does no good if he’s not embarrassed for himself, which I suspect he isn’t.
I’m feeling their pain, I can hear them nown; hay were are hard working pimp’s it’s difficult trying to come up with more way’s to exploit my dumb sheep; I mean I can’t find time to sit at God’s feet and hear his voice, hay how about we circulate the same sermons between our self’s, we’ll justify it as an act of God by saying it show were all in agreement. I’ll tell ya genius, watch your pocket books lady’s.
This is great stuff, too bad most of the people who give these pulpit pimps money never see how they are being duped.Mike
I’m most disturbed by the fact that he told the people that God had given him the message to preach.
Gloria……….you have to learn to THINK like a pimp dear. In Eddie’s mind, he DID get it from God.
G O D
r t a
a h t
b e a
b r
e s’
d
Huh?
Am I the only one who got this Gary…LOL
G - Grabbed
O - Other’s
D- Data
(MN: It’s my computer. The CPU is registering 100% usage and it slowed down my thinking. Yeah! That’s it. Yeah! I…I knew it all along! )
I think GaryV’s point is:
G-Grabbed
O-Other’s
D-Data
Grabbed Other’s data!Did I get it right?
DING DING DING DING!!!!!
Tweet, Alberto, and SDM have solved the mystery!!! This entitles each of you the right to move to the next round, where you will be given the chance to interpret Kenneth Copeland’s outburst of gibber——–um, “tongues”. The one who comes closest to interpreting it WITHOUT accidentally allowing sound doctrine into your answer will win the Grand Prize………a muscle shirt actually worn by Fast Eddie while plagiarizing his latest book,
“I’m Going To PUMP….YOU UP For Jesus.”
Seriously Mel………….it’s not your fault bro. When I wrote it I spaced it out so that it was much easier to read. When it went through to you, it must have compressed it and made it largely illegible.
However, I DO appreciate that fact that you trust me enough to post what seemed like absolute gibberish
………..”The one who comes closest to interpreting it WITHOUT accidentally allowing sound doctrine into your answer will win the Grand Prize………a (
)muscle shirt actually worn ( 
) by Fast Eddie………” ( 
!)
Too much, too much.
lol @ gary- a muscle shirt worn by fast eddie…..chuckle. some grand prize.
You do have to admit Eddie does work his Biceps alot. I believe thats why he like to hold up his Bible in the air to show off his arms. LOL!
Kyle
It was your “tongues” & a few were able to interpret!
Eddie Long is not buffed. Just watered up. I would look at his core to understand that (mid-section/abdomen).
Why would a preacher be on stage…oiled up, with shaven/hairless arms (like bodybuilders do), with a pudge out of the mid section “muscle” shirt? (most times he has on a concealing vest)
I’ve played with guys who look better without a zilch of strength, so I believe it is pure show.
Like when you go to the gym…..200 guys performing flat bench and preacher curls, but a handful focusing also on their core areas so they don’t look as if they are advertising beer commercials.
Almost correlates with spirtual matters….negating the “minor” (or less attractive) which are just as important as the larger ones.
http://www.rodneysampson.com/Portals/5/images/Eddie%20Long.jpg
No Chance, Eddie Long is not physically impressive at all.
Thinking wrote………
“It was your “tongues” & a few were able to interpret!”
if you ask me he looks like a little bull dog.
So sad. Where’s the integrity? Proverbs 11:3, “The integrity of the upright will guide them, but the falseness of the treachereous will destroy them.” This is so evident in this particular case. How can an individual take credit from another individuals work and say, “The Holy Spirit revealed this to me.” No integrity… Isn’t this lying to the Holy Spirit? And blasphemy!
“Better is a poor man who walks in his integrity than he who is perverse in speech and is a fool.” According to Bishop Long and the rest of te prosperity preachers this verse does not fit into there theological discourse. So sad. Poor sheep. We have to pray for the sheep and for these false teachers that the Holy Spirit where convict them of such blasphamy and ignorance to God and His Word. Be Blessed saints!!
Sad Sad
Well! Surprise, surprise. More tall (Long?) tales from Fast Eddie. It’s true, Enlightened, today, the world has ears that itch to hear only “good” things. To an extent, at least, deception is a choice. God gave us His Bible. Told us to study it. If people look for extrabiblical random nonsense filled with fantasy, or accept everything said by their “spiritual father” and “anointed man of God (glory!)”, without checking it with the Bible like the Bereans, they buy into the lie. “They received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this reason, God shall send them strong delusion, that they might believe the lie.” (2 thess 2:10-11.) Melvin, you are doing a great job. You and Tweet and Independent Conservative and all them soldiers out there. We are to have no fellowship with the works of darkness, but rather to reprove them. God bless you all. And may the saints of God wake up and fight.
Sounds like Bishop Long needs to get himself some Fresh Sperm.
I was wondering where another copy of that video was. Whoever had it on YouTube decided to remove it.
OK, so maybe it’s better when Eddie Long uses someone else’s sermon
.
LOL! Sadness….I remember that one.
What bothers me about this is when nonbelievers see these things posted in the Atlanta Journal Constitution.
When nonbelievers see “one of God’s CEOs” (TBN Televangelists) caught in gross amounts of sin they say, “look at the transforming power of God.”
Because of these peoples scams, pimpery, and false Christianity, it makes the Gospel message more and more difficult for “the lost” to accept.
This is absolutely frightening to me.
“After blasphemy where else is there to go; what other sins are out there to commit after we blaspheme the Holy Spirit?”
- John MacArthur
These guys are spiritual terrorists! Theyre a million times more dangerous than anyone on a plane with a bomb or a box-cutter. But Gods grace is not too short to save the rapist, the whore, the heretic, or the terrorist.
“If God doesn’t judge America, then He owes Sodom and Gomorrah an apology”
- shai linne
What bothers me about this is when nonbelievers see these things posted in the Atlanta Journal Constitution.
When nonbelievers see “one of God’s CEOs” (TBN Televangelists) caught in gross amounts of sin they say, “look at the transforming power of God.”
Because of these peoples scams, pimpery, and false Christianity, it makes the Gospel message more and more difficult for “the lost” to accept.
I agree.
But Gods grace is not too short to save the rapist, the whore, the heretic, or the terrorist.
Praise Him for that!
I am saddened by this. I am a seminary graduate who had to learn the art of sermon preparation and delivery and I was taught to always provide references and cite sources even if it was my nephew. I know black preachers steal sermons all the time. I’ve been to too many revivals and conferences and heard the same messages almost verbatim. I use those websites also but only to gain insight into sermon topics I wish to explore. If I do use those sermons, I reference them. I don’t feel any less anointed or spiritual for doing so. I don’t need validation like that to affirm my calling and preaching.
I think we need to be honest with our black church pastors who adore men and women like this. We need to tell them that they either need to get alone and study or go back to a real seminary with real teachers who have published articles, dissertations and journals. Then there won’t be as much pimpin going on because just maybe there will be enlightenment.
prophepsi,
This crosses all races my friend. This is “truly” the only area that has equal opportunity employment. LOL! Besides why would any of these pimps need to steal anyone’s sermons. They usually use a few verses then go off into their own twisted thinking and somehow turn it into a money making opportunity. God is not a respecter of persons. So I guess the same can apply to the Devil because he sure will use anyone black or white to help lead people astray. In fact, the largest group of attendees are those who attend Joel “Willow Boy” Osteen’s church. So believe me when I say that this crosses all color barriers. I have spoken to plenty of white folks who just love ALL these hucksters.
Kyle
It’s quite apparent that fast eddie is operating in the flesh and not the spirit (1corinthians 2:14 “but the natural man does not receive the things of the spirit of god…”) I believe that the spirit can guide a Pastor to Information that is used by someone else but the Pastor who’s doing the quoting should always cite the source. There are some Pastors who are on the cutting edge of a particular topic, so why not refer to them when your dealing with the issue. People have always borrowed information from somebody somewhere, the bible says there is no knowledge new under the sun. The shame of it is that fast eddie tried to make a quick buck off of someone else’s misery. He should step down as Pastor.
“He should step down as Pastor”
True, but in order for something like that to happen, Fast Eddie would have to admit he was wrong and we know that that isn’t happening any time soon. He’s come too far in “the game” to turn around, now.
(MN: Besides, to quote Mrs. Bill Clinon, he’s come to FFAAAAAHHHHHRRRR to turn back now! )
ooooooh, that’s like, so annoying! hearing that taahhrrd, and faaahr hill(ary)billy stuff! reminds me of green acres.
Yoram, I couldn’t agree more. The more egregious aspect of Eddie’s getting caught with his hand in the sermon jar is the fact that he CLEARLY said that the Holy Spirit GAVE him this message, and he sells it as such on his website.
This goes beyond a simple lie………..which would be bad enough. This is making the Holy Spirit a party to his pimping by lying association. Serious business. People who deride and mock Christianity and the Holy Spirit’s work now have a platform (thanks to this incident) from which to publicly ridicule and blaspheme His Name.
You say that as if he was not already doing it with all his other statements and claims. Where he implicates the Holy Spirit in all sorts of twisted doctrine. The Word of Faith preacher is the comedian’s best friend.
And they use Eddie too.
Which is why he was crying about it in the video Melvin put in this post.
Eddie Long sees what is going on, but without true anointing he will never realize he is the one who is messing up. He’s enjoying every minute of the lying prosperity doctrine, enjoying the earthly good life and can’t even see how blinded he truly is.
Thank you for posting this!! I laughed to the point where my insides hurt. But at the same time I realized how those who are on the outside are viewing God!!! Everyone should check out Pastor Tony Smith on his website thewayofgod.com. Not sure if he is oneness or not but he preaches sound doctrine. God Bless
http://www.thewayofgodchurch.com
As I was detoxifying myself from the prosperity doctrine I kept up with Pastor Tony Smith for a while. Because he claims that he also was once part of it. When I lived in GA I watched his TV broadcasts all the time. I had to leave him alone though, for several reasons. Check out his doctrine statements and you might see why.
I’ve got a strong feeling that he is Oneness. I’ve heard him claim “Holiness” as his denomination and anyone I’ve ever known that claimed “Holiness” as a denomination, plus baptism in “Jesus name” was always Oneness Pentecostal/Apostolic. That’s just been my experience. If someone wants to baptize in “Jesus name” or “name of the Lord Jesus” or “Name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit”, I’ve got no problem with any that is used, although I prefer the later, I think the Lord understands the intent to follow him regardless. But it seems that with groups, especially Holiness that do it in “Jesus name”/”name of the Lord Jesus” things always go much deeper than that for them, usually to Oneness doctrine.
Tony Smith is VERY legalistic. The law kills. Notice he even goes back to Numbers to stand against bringing a dead body into the (his words) “House of the Lord”. As in he’s using old temple made by hands rules! And rule #9 really jumps the shark! Look at his statement about the “toilet”. I mean if you don’t want pictures up, fine, but he’s legalistic with this. He’s even against the images of the cross and praying hands.
Rule #11 is trending towards the Jehovah’s Witnesses. A full mis-read of scripture if you ask me.
I suspect Rule #8 goes into JW territory too. But I figure it’s something you’d actually have to go to his church a while to see their full application of that one.
I could go on, there are other parts of his list of legalism aka “Holy Doctrine” that I take issue with.
I’ve heard him preach many times, that if you are a Christian who dies in the mist of any sort of sin you’re going to hell. As in you must live perfect and die in a state of perfection, having repented of all sins even after salvation, or you’re going to hell. Can’t say I’ve ever heard him use the term “grace”.
I think he’s gotten out of the Word of Faith doctrine and fallen into legalism.
This is the guy, where some time ago YouTube videos were posted. If I’m not mistaken, people got a good laugh out of him
Thank you Independent Conservative for the explanation and insight. You actually made me acknowledge something that I felt all along about Pastor Smith. I still appreciate his sermons but he doesn’t balance the sermons talking about Gods grace and mercy. I had to remind myself that all have sinned and fall short of the glory, the only one that’s perfect is God and his son Jesus. Thank you again for the insight, God Bless!!!
To IC: Please don’t tell me you have a problem with Tony Smith. He’s no different than any other self-called pastor today. He lords over the sheep and institutes his tenets to control people. I read his garbage and it didn’t surprise me one bit. Now will you tell me again that people “know what I mean” when I say we are the Church. No, not everyone knows. That’s why I’m going to keep denouncing this error of calling “these buildings” the house of God or The Church. Obviously that truth slipped passed your boy Tony. Tony Smith is one of the hundreds of thousands who think “these buildings” have some kind of spiritual significance- that’s why he doesn’t want a corpse in there. He really believes he’s defiling “that building”. How idiotic. Unfortunately, way too many people haven’t read or understood what Paul said in 1 Corinthians 3:9.
You say he’s VERY legalistic because you don’t agree with rules 8, 9, and 11. But I’m sure you didn’t feel that way about him concerning rule 12. Yeah, that’s because you agree with that legalistic mess. And neither one of you have any Scriptures used in their proper context to support your tenets. Now what if you were a “member” of his building and he imposed rules 8, 9, and 11 on you. What if he tried to take away your joy of putting up a so called Christ ‘Mass’ tree, (if you celebrate the day) or told you you couldn’t display a necklace with a cross on it, or wear a tie with praying hands on it. How would you feel? I already know your blood pressure would skyrocket if he imposed rule 11 on you. Well, that’s how I feel about all of this nonsense. It’s about someone telling a lie that God called them to feed me from a COMPLETED Bible that I can feed myself from. It’s about someone trying to take away my liberty in Christ by implementing all of these man-made rules, and taking Scriptures out of context to manipulate me. I’ve been there. I once was hoodwinked and bamboozled, that’s why I told you I can understand your hurt when it comes to how you were duped at club afterbirth. When I didn’t know any better, I was “under a pastor” just like T. Smith. He took Scripture out of context and thought that teaching about grace gave people a license to sin. He used the Old Testament alot and imposed a lot of stupid rules on the congregation. One of them was that we couldn’t wear shorts in the summer because it wasn’t modest apparel! Imagine that. Trying to control what another grown man can, and cannot wear (in and out of “that building”) under the guise of ‘obey them that have the rule over you’. He and Smith would agree on almost everything except for the dumb can’t bring a corpse into the “house of God” rule. That’s why you telling folks in your post that it’s wrong to peddle even AFTER they leave the building had me wondering, why are you trying to impose your personal convictions on everyone else. It’s legalistic. Oh, by the way- we had that no selling rule in our building too unless of course, it was his sermon tapes. Right.
I will venture out to say that pimping the people starts with deceiving them about “these buildings”. Having a building gives them credibility- and for the record, we see that for many of the pimps, the bigger the building, the more clout. And yes, I know that not every preacher with a big building is a pimp, that doesn’t change the fact that most of them (if not all) tie some sort of importance to “that building” just like you do. I’ll say it again, they can have their ATMs (to make sure they don’t forget those tithes) their coffee shops, bookstores, fish dinners, bake sales, and whatevers if they want to- it’s ONLY a building. Nothing more, nothing less. If people don’t like what they do there, they can go someplace else. They’ve got over 300 denominations to choose from, and if none of them suits their needs, they can always start a new one LOL.
Derrick - You seem to make a habit of HOUNDING someone you disagree with. Even to the point of carrying a topic from one thread of conversation over into others.
I’ve given my thoughts on meetings and marketing and will leave it at that.
Whoever misled you in the past, it is best to forgive them and move on.
Derrick, why did Paul set up churches with pastors/elders?? Was he in sin, propping up Timothy and Titus against God’s plan and will??
Oh wait, I know………that all passed away. Except, neither Christ, nor Paul, nor Peter, James, Jude, nor anyone of the Biblical writers gives even a HINT of that being the case (the temporary character of the pastoral office).
There is no prophecy in the Old Testament, nor teaching in the New Testament, that the office of pastor, or teacher, or elder would ever be done away with before Christ returns. None. Zero. Zilch. Nada.
Actually, to the contrary, this was the pattern followed………
Act 14:23 And when they had ordained them ELDERS in EVERY church, and had prayed with fasting, they commended them to the Lord, on whom they believed.
If Paul and the other Apostles were installing pastors on a temporary basis, why did they not make that clear, and make provision for the day that the office of pastor/teacher was to be abolished?? Paul wrote many pastoral epistles………one should logically assume that he would have mentioned such a thing to the very “temporary” pastors he was installing.
In fact, Paul spends quite a bit of time instructing these pastors to equip OTHER men who could teach as well.
2Ti 2:1 ¶ Thou therefore, my son, be strong in the grace that is in Christ Jesus.
2Ti 2:2 And the things that thou hast heard of me among many witnesses, the same commit thou to faithful men, who shall be able to teach others also.
Can you relate to us a verse or two in the New Testament that serves as the basis for your contention that what Paul was doing in setting up a church structure with pastors/elders/teachers was only temporary??
Can you cite anything from a historical context that can validate your stance?? Do any of the writings of the early church show that this was an Apostolic teaching?? Can you point to instances in history where churches stopped appointing pastors/elders/teachers according to this phantom teaching??
Act 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
Here we have Paul giving his FAREWELL address to these (as you seem to see them ) TEMPORARY pastors, yet not a word about their temporary status. Quite the opposite, Paul explicitly marks them as those chosen by the Holy Spirit for the task of shepherding (leading) and feeding(so much for teachers being unnecessary) the Body.
Here we have Paul again with a chance to enlighten them about the temporary character of the office, but he remains mute on that point.
1Cr 12:28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.
Again, God has set these offices, and NOWHERE are we informed of their temporary nature.
Gal 6:6 ¶ Let him that is taught in the word communicate unto him that teacheth in all good things.
Eph 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
No sign of a temporary nature there either.
1Ti 3:2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
I agree that the buildings are insignificant. I agree that they are generally unnecessary and serve more as a drain on the Body than a benefit.
But I see no Biblical support for your contention that the office of pastor/elder/teacher was ever done away with, or that it’s demise was either contemplated or taught by the Inspired writers.
What the Scriptures clearly teach is that the offices of pastor/deacon/elder/teacher/shepherd (whichever you prefer) are ordained by God, and there is no hint that this is going to change before Christ returns. God Himself ordained that the church should be shepherded in the Bible (Old Testament AND New), and that these offices come with certain authority and responsibilities which are clearly set forth. Since there is no verse that even intimates that God will do away with this system (which He ordained) before Christ returns, I fail to see where you get the notion that all pastors are “self-called”, and illegitimate.
Am I misunderstanding your meaning??
Derrick, I read through your post and I understand where you are coming from. If we’re going to be honest, we gotta look at Tony Smith’s set of rules in light of the Bible and see if any of them are true. For example, rules 7 and 11 are just flat out ridiculous.
However, rules 2, 5 and 6 are deeply rooted in scripture and should be implemented in every church. It would eliminate half the mess that goes on in churches today. Liberty in Christ does not mean we don’t follow rules, otherwise why read the Bible? If Israel had rules to follow as God’s people, what makes the church so much more better that we don’t need rules? One can argue about women wearing pants being too legalistic, except there is scriptural grounds for imposing this (Deuteronomy 22:5) but it shouldn’t be forced, either. It is the pastor’s job to preach it, but after that the believer decides whether or not he or she wishes to obey God.
By the way, there is nothing wrong with using the Old Testament frequently. It is the Word of God and every word of God is pure. Using it to enforce the Law is one thing, but using it to SHOW what sin is and what God likes and detests is most edifying.
Gary V: Question, who ordains pastor’s today, and who validates their ordination, the bible shows us that the apostles ordained church elder pastors, please direct us scripture supporting the ordination of pastors by anyone but the apostles. Thank you.
To Alberto, whose rules are we to follow; if we all have access to the same word of God should not the word guide all the same?, Your reference to Deut 22:5 as grounds for imposing this rule is invalid, Deut 22:5 deals with the act of deception, a man dressing as a woman or a woman dressing as a man, it’s not about paints; also we are not under the law, Old testament law is given as an examples and is not to be applied to the saints, read Rom 6 remember sin was nailed to the cross alone with the law, we are free from the chains of the law, be not bewitched by the law?
Nice try Anonymous…………you didn’t answer a single of the salient points, then you come up with a brand new point that you cannot support via Scripture or history.
Please show me in the Word where it is stated or implied that the 12 Apostles were given the exclusive right to ordain elders. I’m all a-tingle with anticipation, because I can’t find any such assertion. But that’s OK, because we’re STILL waiting to see the verses that support the erroneous notion that Paul knew he was installing temporary pastors, and the verses that instruct these pastors that they are temporary, or the verses where Paul reveals the temporary nature of pastors to the church so that they could know how to proceed after pastors were no longer needed, or the witnesses from history that this was the teaching of the Apostles, or that ANY of the churches followed or KNEW about this temporary pastoral status.
You of course realize that the name of the Book of Acts is NOT the Book of Acts. It is The Book Of The Acts OF THE APOSTLES. The Book is dedicated entirely to the Acts of these men. We don’t see anyone else ordaining elders except the Apostles in Acts for the same reason that we don’t see any other Captains beside Ahab fighting whales in Moby Dick……..the book is ONLY about Captain Ahab, just like Acts is ONLY about the Apostles. That CERTAINLY doesn’t imply that no other Captains fought whales just because Moby Dick doesn’t mention them. Nor does it mean that no one else ordained pastors beside the Apostles.
By the time of the close of the Apostolic period, the sheer number of churches throughout and beyond the Roman Empire makes the assertion that the HUNDREDS or THOUSANDS of congregations were ALL pastored by men hand picked by the Apostles RIDICULOUS.
You’ll notice as well that the church at Jerusalem (the preeminent church) was pastored by James the half-brother of the Lord. No evidence that the Apostles ordained him………in fact, when Paul was called to the Jerusalem Council to discuss the disposition of the Gentiles in relation to the Gospel (Acts 15), he deferred to the authority of James. So who ordained James??
It’s pretty odd that in the Book called the ACTS of the APOSTLES that there is NO mention of any Apostolic ordination of James over the first and most powerful church in the world of that day.
Again, if you are going to insist that the Apostles were the ONLY ones able to ordain pastors, you must first show where this is either taught or implied in the text.
Then it would be helpful if you could explain how the Apostles could have ordained THOUSANDS of pastors and elders all over and beyond the Roman Empire before they died.
THEN it would be great if you find the verses that support the notion that pastors/elders were temporary. Nowhere in the epistles to the church is this temporary pastoral ministry mentioned (where SOME mention should have been made so the church wouldn’t continue this system you claim is unGodly).
Nor is it discussed in the epistles to the PASTORS (where all elements pastoral duties and responsibilities and authority are expounded upon) .
I’ve given multiple verses that EXPLICITLY state the the plan of having pastors/elders/teachers, etc in the church was GOD’S ordained plan. Surely if God went to the trouble to outline this course as His ordained will, He could not neglect to inform the church that it was temporary, and give further instructions for the church to follow once the pastors passed away.
Why would He give instructions about ordaining pastors, yet neglect to inform anyone that pastors will pass away after the Apostles were no longer present to ordain any more??
Your position is contradicted by both Scripture and history.
Anonymous, WE are supposed to select the bishops and elders, see Titus 1.
Someone can desire the job, but we are supposed to ensure they meet the standards for the post. They are not supposed to just jump up one day and say “I’m a preacher” and we all simply accept that.
Another good point IC…………why would Paul tell Titus and Timothy the requirements for picking a pastor if only the Apostles were supposed to ordain them??
That knowledge would be useless to Titus and Timothy since they can’t ordain anyway.
I need to add, the scripture I mentioned shows Paul saying Titus was supposed to do the job of appointing bishops and elders in Crete. Now if we had MEN (elders, deacons and other bishops) who would actually do the job, fine, we all would see these pastors they appoint and be able to also affirm they are good for the post. However, we live in an age where people claim to be pastors who NOBODY has checked out at all. Bad pastors even leave the elders/denomination/leaders they were under and start their own bad thing and nobody seems to care.
We certainly have the ability to select leaders. If other leaders won’t do it right, somebody has to.
The bottom line, you have to ensure that you are being instructed by someone who best fills the qualifications for the role and handles it appropriately. You have to speak for your own soul, so ultimately, you take part in the selection process by who you accept yourself. This is why I say “we” ultimately make the selection. You have the freedom to decide where you will assemble with saints.
(MN: I suspect that part of what we’re working with is the years and years of not doing it right and forgetting how it was supposed to done. Some of us react and come to the conclusion that we should not participate in local churches and appoint leaders. I certainly understand Mrs. Mav and DTG’s approach. But I don’t think there is sufficient scripture to largely do what has been suggested. )
I agree Melvin, although I wanted to make the point that it’s not some job reserved to the apostles, who are no longer with us.
Gary you’ve given your interpretation and your opinion so let me give mine, The model is clear, authority is passed down, if you need a verse check out the bible I think it’s between Gen and Rev, Now let me ask you the same question, where in the bible has anyone ever been called and not validated, Even Jesus said if his testimony was without validation it would mean nothing, who validated Christ none other but the one who sent, him with witness. Paul is given authority that authority in validated by the 12, he along with the 12 is given the authority to appoint men that would guide the saints until that which is perfect has come, now if you believe that that perfect thing that was to come is the word of God then please explain since we all have access to the same Word by the same God we now need uninspired men to interpret the simple word of God to us?
To say the Book of Act’s is not all the works of the apostles is just adding to what is not their, its conjecture. Now the James thing, please the real question is who validated his authority, the 12 of course. You see Gary the Catholic Church clams authority because they clam they can trace their authority back to Paul; even they know without succession they have no authority. These so called pastors today desire the title of pastor; they just lack the authority, just an interpretation and an opinion.
Anonymous,
Your reference to Deut 22:5 as grounds for imposing this rule is invalid, Deut 22:5 deals with the act of deception, a man dressing as a woman or a woman dressing as a man, it’s not about paints;
Deuteronomy 22:5 is not dealing with deception, it is dealing with what God calls an abomination, same thing with homosexuality, man and women wearing clothing of the opposite gender. Whether you think this pertains to women wearing pants or not, the bottom line is women didn’t start wearing pants until World War 2. Prior to that era, pants had always been regarded as menswear.
also we are not under the law, Old testament law is given as an examples and is not to be applied to the saints, read Rom 6 remember sin was nailed to the cross alone with the law, we are free from the chains of the law, be not bewitched by the law?
Which is why I stated earlier that we are not to ENFORCE the Law, but that gives you NO right to commit the sin God hates. If you know the Law says God hates such and such, why do you disobey God and do it? If God says women should not wear what pertains to men because it is an abomination, why do it? Did God all of a sudden decide the things that offended him in the Old testament were not insulting anymore? The Law was nailed to the cross, praise the Lord, which means we are no longer bound to its standards and execution of punishment for sins, but that does NOT mean God’s view of the sins addressed changed. Never in the Bible does God repent of calling anything abomination. If you know something offends God, why would you want to do it?
Yoram,
Unfortunately when your not lead by the Holy Ghost like Fast Eddie the ONLY thing you can do is steal other material. The Bible is vast and deep in meaning there should be no problem with finding a sermon. But these pimps have one track minds and there is only a limited (although still a lot) amount of scripture to twist for their own material gain. This would explain why he and others are NOT on the cutting edge of anything except Pimping. I am not surprised that this continues even after 100 years after Azusa. You would think that by now people would have woke up and seen the light regarding these pimps. However, as we get closer to the end we know that false doctrine will flourish and those with itchy ears will heed their vacuous sermons of greed. This is why they are becoming more and more successful as time goes on. As for stepping down as Pastor this would imply that he has dignity and respect for the position which through my eyes he has neither.
Kyle
How sad…and common. I was in a church when I was a teen and used to get those Kenneth Copeland magazines at home, don’t remember the name (anyonen?). The pastor of the church I was attending basically used the reference to Satan being a “declawed and toothless mountain lion” to our victory over him. It came straight from Copeland’s magazine. Even in High School I knew what plagiarism (sp?) was. This was in the early 1990s.
It doesn’t surprise me if the pimps do it, though. After all, when they don’t actually study the Word for themselves anymore (with all the prayer breakfasts and other hob-knobbing, elbow-rubbing dinners, luncheons, brunches, and conferences they attend). They just don’t have the time to actually READ the Word. They’ll just have to rely on their “anointing”.
Danny,
You are right. Jesus had victory over Satan. We must rely on Jesus as our savior. When these preachers assume that the Devil is nothing more than a toothless mountain lion they by proxy try to assume a god status as if they were the ones who have power over the devil. Jesus won the victory. Mankind has no such power except only in Jesus name. The reason they have such a lax attitude towards the Devil is because they are doing his bidding. Luke 10 19,20 says it all.
Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you.
Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven.
Notice from the above example that it is Jesus who gives us the power. Next notice in verse 20 that we are to, “rejoice not” in that fact, but rather that we have eternal life.
Kyle
The only things that have kept him afloat is the need of his sheeple to believe. They deny the facts. The evasion of truth and looking the other way is abound in many churches. It’s like they are hypnotized.
Fast Eddie has a new radio program starting tonight on Clear Channel. He is teaming up with James Meeks (Chicago). When I find the links, I will send them. But the show is called Men With Vision.
Men With Vision
GSRH,
I guess Men with Vision is like,” Mind on my money, and money on my mind”. This stuff is not even Christianity, its occultist in every way. Men with Vision, Hah! These reprobates are blind leading the blind. I think Eddie could use a good set of bifocals.
Kyle
hmmm, seems to me that if you steal someone elses message that they supposedly spent time in prayer and seekting God for the answer and studying, its clear to me that Fast Eddie does not like to study to shew himself approved! Let someone else do the work. As good as Bishop Jones is, I knew that there were times when he clearly did not study or pray on it. It sounded good, but you leave quite empty wondering why you didnt get it when it seemed everybody else did. It’s called “HYPE”.
Noel Jones is ALL hype. If one has ever listened to the content of his “messages” he repeats the same point…at least three times in different manners for the whole 45 minutes-1 hour.
JARGON. Lots of substance, but all in all, nothing but filler.
This as well as many personal stories, who he is hob-knobbing with in Hollywood, his personal trips around the world, his ex-wife stories, stories about his personal secretary (as he slides that in) and what he would have her do for his ex-wife when he was in some exotic country preaching…etc, etc..etc….
The man has too much going on to be separated in prayer, and his dramatics are a revelation of that.
Afterall, could you picture any one of these individuals (with the braggart sense they exude) in prayer HUMBLY seeking THE LORDS WILL!?!?
I cannot buy that.
I’m so glad that somebody else see’s that too!
For a long time I wondered was something wrong with me, and why was everybody else jumping up and down, screaming, running, crying etc. while all the time I would be saying what did I miss? Now there were times when I did leave blessed. But most of the time it was all hype and the music was tainted too. It was all about entertainment it really was. Thats how you draw the masses when you appeal to the flesh. When you preach the real gospel your flock will not be as large. People love to hear what makes them feel good.
Tell me this, how does the world enter in the church?
It would have to be through the leadership. Arent they suppose to be the watchmen over the sheep, the shepherd? Seriously the world could not enter in if the shepherds were on their jobs.
Tell me the truth! It may hurt but aleast I can correct the error of my ways before its to late.
The way I see it, is that many “large” congregations are built out of (probably) sore ambition to be just that…..large.
The watchmen are laborers over the souls of those they pastor. The Bible admonishes those in ministry to “know them which labour among you, and are over you in the Lord, and admonish you..” (1 Thessalonians 5:12)
It is interesting a scripture such as this, declaring that those working in the Lord are co-laborers, and to encourage one another, honor the leader who is watching over you, and the leader is to know his own as well.
Now, with so much going on with regard to larger and larger edificies, can this be fulfilled?
Are such large edifices even biblical is probably a better question.
Can the Pastor possibly know the co-laborers in his ministry with him when he has a 22,000 roster?? Does he even desire to know his co-laborers when he has “security” for himself (Blake, Jones) at his service?
Talk about ridiculous.
Do they need protection from their own SHEEP? Are we hearing one preaching a Dr. MLK message & shaking the nation?
Naah.
So why does one require permission just to get close to you??
The people are being “wooed” and romanced into their flesh. While the lusts of a certain few (”leaders”) are being fulfilled.
Men living like rockstars.
Some may have been truly geniune initially, but fell at a point, and are too wrapped in the social hob-knobbing/keeping up with the “Jonses” of ministry to turn back.
The world cannot enter into the church. It may look as if it is the church, but much of it has turned to a glorfied social hour.
Never really been inspired by Noel Jones. I actually really attempted to throw myself into it…but something was never “right”.
I knew at the time I was present at smaller minstries and heard the WORD, but there with Noel Jones…something is not good.
Maybe the prevalence of homosexuals active in leadership, maybe the boasting of Noel himself, maybe its the short miniskirts……
So much, I cannot put my finger on just one.
Deb, since you are asking to hear the truth, you probably already know that you should get out now!
I sat there in disobedience for almost eight years after the Holy Spirit started showing me the carnality and false teaching.
I finally “escaped”, and I have not enjoyed such freedom,peace and joy since I first accepted Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior.
We have to be like the Bereans and seach the scriptures daily to find out if what we are hearing is true.(Acts 17:11)
Then, we must obey if the Spirit tells us to leave, because deception makes us very sick(spiritually).
Don’t worry about immediately finding another “church home”.
Just study the Word faithfully, read the postings on this site, and have faith that the Holy Spirit will lead you to another assembly of believers who love God and seek Truth.
God bless you.
Enlightened, I have been gone from that church now for 3 years, and like you I am happy in Jesus and free. Glad to be free!
and Like the word says, I will not be entangled with the yoke of bondage again.
Dear Gridiron:
As one who lives and ministers in the same Metropolis as Noel Jones, I can tell you that he is all hype and fluff! All one has to do is really listen to Noel and you will quickly discover that his sermons are pretty much the same with just a different title to them.
Of course, the people whom he ministers to, if you can call it that, are totally oblivious to the obvious. As painful as it is for me to point out the obvious, I must say that it is because of the ignorance of our people, their lack of ability to read and study the Scripture for all its worth that the Pimps have no accountability for their heretical teachings.
That is why I have made it my life’s goal to study more diligently in order that I might be able to “earnestly contend for the faith that was once delivered unto the Saints”. Lord willing, I will start the Doctor of Ministry program at Talbot School of Theology beginning June 4th.
I humbly and sincerly ask for your prayers as this will be an extremely difficult process given my other commitments and time restraints.
God’s Richest Blessings!
BT
God bless you BT…………
BT, I agree with what you have said, I sat under the man for 3 years, and like I said before there were times when I would wonder what have I missed or Lord, am I wicked is my heart dirty, because I wasnt getting it like the other folk that were jumping up and down and running around like crazy. But, thank God for delieverance. I feel that his ministry was set up to appeal to the flesh, it really was a lot of hype even his preaching was hyping up folk, got on my nerves.
Right BT. I was there (2-3 months) in 2005 during the summer months. I visited there on occasion, and never really enjoyed it.
I knew of not many other “churches” as I was at the point of resigning myself from the COGIC church I had attended for nearly 2 years.
In fact at the City of Refuge, I had witnessed a few (here and there) people walk out of service (it was obvious they were leaving) as Noel Jones had been speaking for merely 5-10 minutes.
The fact also was, at the time I started attending, they started the men’s choir. Myself and my cousin were in some serious spiritual “limbo” and decided to join shortly after starting to attend.
Now, before the 1st performance (on Mother’s day 2005) there were 3 rehearsals. These were not rehearsals as one would think for a men’s “choir”.
A musician just taught us the words to each song, and funny enough when it was time for the performance, they had leads that were not at the rehearsals, that no one knew of, as they obviously sing leads for the other choirs in the church.
One fellow was a gay male, a pretty flamboyant and obvious to the eye at that.
The gentleman with whom was responsible for the coordination of the choir…gay as well.
Not to mention the fact that afterward ( I resigned from this place around July 2005), I saw an advertisement for a men’s choir album coming out around December.
Now, I had been apart of everything an individual could to know what was needed in regard to any future performances, etc.
But this was news to me, as the men were obviously an object for profit. This led to the obvious inclination that this “Men’s Choir” was pre-planned, organized in a swift hurry, and an album was the obvious means to the end for the 150-200 men that showed up.
They were a commodity, and the people a market.
I was grieved. Now, whom is to reap the profits from this “album”? Surely not the perfomers.
Afterall, I hear that Noel Jones now has his emblem (the same as the small gold pendant that he wears of himself on his shirts) airbrushed as an image on the wall.
What will the men get? Maybe a few snacks, a word or two from “The Bishop”, maybe even a cup of coffee from “Four”-bucks (Starbucks) but all in all Jones and his crew are not to be trusted…. these men are snakes….from the Bishop to the musicians.
In fact, in the original rehearsal as we were being taught the songs…..we were being given instruction as to how this was to coordinate.
One individual spoke up (it was obvious he had a mental disability) as to how he would let the brothers know when to come out.
The musician teaching us, paused and let out a laugh…but yet attempted to play it off as he turned his head.
I won’t say his name, but for anyone with whom has ever attended the City of Refuge…he is the man whom closes Noel Jones speaking with his music….and Noel always seems to give him the “que” (by stating his name) as to when to start wrapping it up.
Much too much.
As I said before Grid, “Hype” and Entertainment! I have had folk growl at me in that church, say stuff that was crazy etc.
It go to be much to much for me and all the silly women there, like sitting ducks hoping to be the next Mrs. Jones. It made me sick to see the hypocrisy. I never once went to meet or shake his hand, did not want to be labled a one chasing after the “Bishop”.
What was the last straw for me, when he put the image of himself on his suits, he stopped wearing the robes which he should go back to wearing. Lord, when are we gonna learn its not about us about all about you and souls being saved from the grip of the enemy.
Grid, do you believe that all the mega men heard in packs, they all seem to preach at each others churches because they draw the crowds and that means money!
One thing G. Craig said, a Bishop told him, you will not be invited to speak at alot of churches because you mess up the money; a different type of people come to hear you, how sad that is..
for mrs paul white would leave the apostle paul out of your mouth, because he knew his God and where he was going, paul did’t take time to take from the poor and have his nails done. he gave his self to the church and the needs of the people, oh by the way he walk where he had to go, and was very happy with the Lord and by the way how did she get to be near so many black preacher, think she is black or is she like Jim Jone try to take black people down with her.
eddie long needed much prayer, and where is his wife.
where are the wive’s of these preacher td jakes creflo dollar, are they in it for the money to and don’t care about the sheep, what if it was them being take over would they like it.
I’ve heard some interesting stories about “1st ladies”. (MN: Sorry. No stories. )
Let’s keep in mind, even if these pimps current wives were not involved in any of the game directly themselves, they are supposed to be subject to their husbands and addressing issues with him in private. 1 Peter 3 and 1 Corinthians 14:34-35.
Women can speak to bring correction to their husbands, but MEN need to stand up and be MEN. The MEN in these “churches” need to hit the door and warn others or if they are determined to stay, speak up! The MEN who hold positions should speak up.