I listen to Pentecostals, Charismatics, and various second wave and five fold ministry pretenders and I have to wonder how they see the universe, how they see Satan, and how they see God. Well, I don’t really have to wonder. Their words tell me more than enough.
Visit with a Pentecostal long enough and you will hear them “binding Satan.” You have to wonder, do they believe when they say this phrase, especially with Jesus’ name tucked on the end (you know - “In Jesus name!”) Satan is unable to function and has to stop whatever he’s doing. Never mind the fact that in Jude Michael, the Archangel, one of the angels, the head honcho, was never even willing to TRY to “bind” Satan.
I’m sure Denise, the woman who submitted this “prayer” as a comment is completely sincere and is totally convinced their recital has accomplished something. Even as I’m sure the women who railed against the preacher outside Willow Boy’s motivational speaking event were quite sincere. Their display starts around 0:50.
But it goes to the fact that the men and women who sit under the pimps are completely oblivious to who God is, who Satan is, and what, exactly, our “rights” as Christians actually are.
Let’s step through it and see what we come up with. First, the whole prayer. Then let’s look at it in chunks.
By the way, this entire prayer was directed at Independent Conservative, not me. And she shouts the entire time. Maybe she wanted to make sure Satan could hear it when he read it.
IN THE NAME OF JESUS CHRIST OF NAZARETH, I COME AGAINST THE PRINCE-RULING SPIRIT AND ALL SPIRIT GUIDES. I COME THROUGH THE BLOOD OF THE LORD JESUS CHRIST, IN THE NAME OF JESUS. I PARALYZE YOU AND SILENCE YOU, FORBIDDING YOU FROM INFLUENCING OR STRENGTHENING (Independent Conservative Spirit) IN THE NAME OF JESUS, RIGHT NOW!
WE ARE DESTROYING YOUR VERY WORKS: THE SPIRITS OF HATE, BITTERNESS AND MURDER, SPIRITS OF ENVY AND JEALOUSY, SPIRITS OF WIZARDRY, SORCERY AND ALL YOUR CO-SPIRITS, YOUR WORKS, YOUR POWERS, YOUR INFLUENCES ARE DESTROYED IN THE NAME OF JESUS!
I PARALYZE YOU, ALL, RIGHT NOW. YOU WILL NOT BE ABLE TO USE THIS SOUL ANY LONGER AGAINST THE CHURCH (OR Men and Women of God), IN THE NAME OF JESUS.
I COME AGAINST THE SPIRIT OF BLINDNESS, BINDING THE SPIRITS OF BONDAGE AND HEAVINESS, FEAR AND HATE.I PRAY, LORD, THAT YOU WILL OPEN their EYES SO THEY CAN SEE THE GLORY OF JESUS. OPEN THEIR HEARTS SO THAT THEY CAN HEAR YOUR VOICE. BREAK THE YOKES IN THEIR LIVES AND GIVE THEM LIBERTY IN THEIR SOUL, THAT HE MAY BE FREE TO REPENT. SHOW THEM EVERY EVIL WORK AND EVERY EVIL DEED THEY’RE GUILTY OF, AND LORD JESUS, CONVICT THEIR HEARTS UNTO REPENTANCE. BRING THIS SOUL OUT OF DARKNESS; SAVE THIS SOUL SO THAT YOU MAY HAVE THE GLORY.
SATAN, I SILENCE YOU IN THE NAME OF JESUS, BINDING ALL YOUR INTERFERENCE. YOU WILL NOT INTERFERE WITH THESE SOULS AND THEY WILL HAVE THEIR OWN FREE WILL CHOICE SO AS TO MAKE UP THEIR OWN MINDS IF THEY WANT TO REPENT. THEY WILL DO IT WITHOUT YOUR INTERFERENCE.
ALSO, LORD JESUS, I PRAY THAT YOU WILL RELEASE WARRING ANGELS TO WAGE WAR AGAINST THESE DEMONIC ACTIVITIES, AND WILL SEND MINISTERING SPIRITS TO MINISTER TO HIS SOUL.
First paragraph
IN THE NAME OF JESUS CHRIST OF NAZARETH, I COME AGAINST THE PRINCE-RULING SPIRIT AND ALL SPIRIT GUIDES. I COME THROUGH THE BLOOD OF THE LORD JESUS CHRIST, IN THE NAME OF JESUS. I PARALYZE YOU AND SILENCE YOU, FORBIDDING YOU FROM INFLUENCING OR STRENGTHENING ( Independent Conservative Spirit) IN THE NAME OF JESUS, RIGHT NOW!
Again, looking at Jude 9 for our example, Michael, the Archangel, did not feel up to binding Satan, or even rebuking Satan. He defers to the Lord (GOD) rebuking Satan. It’s awfully presumptuous to think I could exercise such authority. Besides, if I could do that, don’t you think I’d go to hospitals and bind Satan in the misery that exists there?
Apparently, by making this arrogant statement, I can 1) Paralyze Satan, 2) Silence Satan, 3) Forbid him from strengthening (whatever that is).
This goes beyond stupid and approaches dangerously deluded. )
WE ARE DESTROYING YOUR VERY WORKS: THE SPIRITS OF HATE, BITTERNESS AND MURDER, SPIRITS OF ENVY AND JEALOUSY, SPIRITS OF WIZARDRY, SORCERY AND ALL YOUR CO-SPIRITS, YOUR WORKS, YOUR POWERS, YOUR INFLUENCES ARE DESTROYED IN THE NAME OF JESUS!
“We destroy your every work”…if that’s so, why does Satan remain so active and effective? I mean there are thousands of people praying this insipid prayer. If all of his works are destroyed, we should be living in a paradise. There should be no bullies, no unkind words, no theives, no difficulties of any kind. Afterall, the works of Satan are destroyed. Right?
I PARALYZE YOU, ALL, RIGHT NOW. YOU WILL NOT BE ABLE TO USE THIS SOUL ANY LONGER AGAINST THE CHURCH (OR Men and Women of God), IN THE NAME OF JESUS.
I COME AGAINST THE SPIRIT OF BLINDNESS, BINDING THE SPIRITS OF BONDAGE AND HEAVINESS, FEAR AND HATE.
Apparently, not only can we paralyze Sata, but we can also paralyze a bunch of demons. I guess I have to be careful driving on the beltway. I wouldn’t want to run over any of them as they lay there paralyzed. And I guess we don’t even consider free will here. After all, this bimbo prays and the demons can’t speak. They can’t move. They can’t do the things they want to do. So will this work if I’m being mugged by the Internal Revenue Service?
I PRAY, LORD, THAT YOU WILL OPEN their EYES SO THEY CAN SEE THE GLORY OF JESUS. OPEN THEIR HEARTS SO THAT THEY CAN HEAR YOUR VOICE. BREAK THE YOKES IN THEIR LIVES AND GIVE THEM LIBERTY IN THEIR SOUL, THAT HE MAY BE FREE TO REPENT. SHOW THEM EVERY EVIL WORK AND EVERY EVIL DEED THEY’RE GUILTY OF, AND LORD JESUS, CONVICT THEIR HEARTS UNTO REPENTANCE. BRING THIS SOUL OUT OF DARKNESS; SAVE THIS SOUL SO THAT YOU MAY HAVE THE GLORY.
Hold on there cowgirl. What happened to free will? Don’t you talk about it in the next paragraph? So which is it? Is He going to bring them out of darkness even if they don’t want to be brought out of darkness?
SATAN, I SILENCE YOU IN THE NAME OF JESUS, BINDING ALL YOUR INTERFERENCE. YOU WILL NOT INTERFERE WITH THESE SOULS AND THEY WILL HAVE THEIR OWN FREE WILL CHOICE SO AS TO MAKE UP THEIR OWN MINDS IF THEY WANT TO REPENT. THEY WILL DO IT WITHOUT YOUR INTERFERENCE.
Okay, we know for sure this woman is of the opinion that Satan, that greasy little rebel, can control us but God, the creator and LOrd of the universe, can’t. Do you understand how much raw power the lady is giving to Satan? He’s a grubby little liar and he gets to do stuff God can’t do. Of course she spends most of the time praying to Satan so I guess I shouldn’t be surprised.
ALSO, LORD JESUS, I PRAY THAT YOU WILL RELEASE WARRING ANGELS TO WAGE WAR AGAINST THESE DEMONIC ACTIVITIES, AND WILL SEND MINISTERING SPIRITS TO MINISTER TO HIS SOUL.
Warring Angels. That sounds like a pretty good video game. But it doesn’t sound like anything within the Bible. The closest we get to something like this is the quick narratives that talk about Satan and his band getting kicked out of Heaven.
I want you to understand that this lady has accepted every thing the five fold liars have fed to her. She arrogant, biblically illiterate, and completely self-deceived. She actually thinks she can influence the behavior of Satan. So what was Job missing? Why didn’t he bind Satan? On the other hand, if God is doing in her life the same sort of thing He did in Job’s life, where does the get the ‘nads to assume she can keep him from his task?
You have to feel sorry for people like this. She has no idea what it means to be a Christian. She has no idea about humility, dependence on Christ, or the idea of suffering for Christ. And it is very likely that 10 years from now she will either an agnostic or in exaclty the same place spiritually that she is right now.
She implied the...
As Christians do we have any power over Satan through the name of Jesus Christ ?
No Frank. God has the power. And remember, not everything that happens to us is of the devil. Too often folk will blame the most minute situation on the enemy. I have seen everything from paper cuts to people dieing being blamed on Satan. Yet that was not the entire truth. Yes, the enemy is seeking to steal, kill and to destroy. But some things we bring on ourselves. People want to go to praying against satan when they or a loved one gets AIDS/HIV, yet it was the sinful, lustful pride of the individual that put them in the position to get it in the first place. It is our sinful nature that causes us to sin, the enemy is just there to “encourage” it.
Our focus shouldn’t be on the enemy, but on God and HIM getting the glory in whatever we are going through- good or bad. You pray to God that His will be done, that His Spirit strengthen you, that God be glorified and then for an answer to the situation. But again, our focus should always be on Christ, that way whatever happens- if God works it out on our behalf by rebuking the enemy or allows it to go on longer, our joy is fulfilled in Him.
JulianofGod said:”Yes, the enemy is seeking to steal, kill and to destroy.”…..This may even strengthen your arguement because the passage that this is cited from is John 10:10
“10The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.
11I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.
12But he that is an HIRELING, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep.”
The context is speaking about hirelings or false teachers/shepherds/thieves/wolves, NOT even the devil. I know this is commonly used among many of us refering to the deception of the devil, I know i’ve even used the phrase from time to time. Just an FYI.
@TOG: I know where it comes from, I guess it would have been more accurate to quote 1 Peter 5:8 “Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:”
Same thought process though. The enemy wants to destroy us, but it doesn’t mean he can. All he does is walk around, an aimless spirit wishing he could and wanting to destroy us.
@ Frank: However, though the enemy wants to destroy us- he cannot do anything without the permission of the Lord (ref: Job). Furthermore, because God has all power and is in all control, the enemy does not have the power many folk ascribe to him, thus making him more powerful (at least in our minds) than what he is. Again, everything must be viewed through the supremacy of Christ in the world. Jesus sits and reigns at the right hand of God (Luk 22:69, HEB 1:3).
julian,I know that God has the power, He has all power,but if Christ is in us,can’t His power work in us and through us according to the will of God in the name of Jesus Christ?
Frank, I know you posted this prior to my comment on the 10th, but let me add to this by saying “yes” to the question above. It is a resounding yes even when we are on a death bed riddled with cancer with no human known cure. What we must realize and accept is the fact that God does allow for us to suffer (and suffer immensely). We don’t like to look at God as someone who would willing let His children suffer, but He does and I will go a step further and say that He actually does will it. So we do have power in the name of Jesus Christ, we do have power in Him and He is in us. And God gets the glory whether we are healed or not if we have faith in Him regardless of the things (good or bad) we go through. Remember Rom 8:35-39? Paul lists a bunch of things that would seem troublesome, but he also says at vs 37 “Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.” This is faith. That we would believe on the Son of God regardless of the things we see and go through. God always moves on our behalf. The problem is, most of the time we don’t agree with it. WE often feel like he could have done something different or more. Anyhow, these are my thoughts on it and I hope they can benefit you.
God bless brother!
You have to identify what Jesus Christ wants you to do and “binding Satan” is not it. If we’re going to use His Name, we must use it appropriately.
I always thought “prayers” like this were interesting for several reasons: 1. Her “prayer” is not focused on God! She spends 2/5 of the prayer speaking to Satan and the other time speaking to Satan. 2. It is TOO EASY to blame behavior on “demons” and not simply sin. Not saying that IC is in sin, but you know what I mean.
Brother…I quite honestly am not sure how to respond to this. I can’t fully agree with you, but I don’t fully agree with this prayer either.
You are right in your statement of Jude 9; that in reference to Satan we can only call on the Lord GOD to rebuke him, but I don’t believe she’s referring to Satan in the first paragraph of her prayer.
No, she refers to the “prince-ruling spirit, and all spirit guides.” I don’t particularly understand the latter part, but I do believe that ‘prince-ruling spirit’ could be referenced to Daniel 10:13, where it states:
“but the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me twenty-one days; and behold, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me, for I had been left alone with the kings of Persia.
And verse 20 states:
‘And now I must return to fight with the prince of Persia; and when I have gone forth, indeed the prince of Greece will come.”
These were evil angels–demons, however you call them contesting for Persia and Greece. And I guess you can consider the angels Gabriel, and Michael “at war” with such evil angels.
Paul, when he and Silas were followed by the slave girl with the spirit of divination said to the spirit, (Acts 16:18); “I command you in the name of Jesus to come out of her.”
Now of course Paul was given apostolic authority, and you may be of a mind to believe that such authority does not exist anymore, but I do not. I believe that those who have dedicated their lives to God can be used to deliver souls from the evil spirits that are at work around us.
In this case I believe this women means well, she believes what she is doing, so I pray for her as Paul prayed for the Ephesians; (Ephesians 1:17-21)
“That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give to her the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of Him, the eyes of her understanding being enlightened; that she may know what is the hope of His calling, what are the riches of the glory of His inheritance in the saints, and what is the exceeding greatness of His power toward us who believe, according to the working of His mighty power which He worked in Christ when He raised Him from the dead and seated HIm at His right hand in the heavenly places, far above all principality and power, and might and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this age but also in that which is to come. Amen”
(MN: I certainly don’t deny that we can, in Christ’s name cast out demons [ala Paul]. But this lady is not really doing anything that resembling that. She is being incredibly (I’m sure she believes she has what she will call the gift of discerning of spirits) and, as I said, seems to have no problem with really bad doctrine. Her spirit, you might say, isn’t one of gentleness but rather of arrogance and condemnation (Galatians 6:1).
Yes. The Bible does talk about clashes between the angels. But I don’t think they respond at our beck and call as she seems to think they will.
Again, they’re not at our beck and call.
And I think you responded quite well. Thanks. )
Thanks as well for clearing that up. God Bless.
I’m wondering where we have specifically been commanded to personally war against regional demon princes.
(MN: I’m betting someone will quote James, “resist the devil and he will flee from you.” )
And please notice that with all of Denise’s great spiritual insight, she can’t seem to figure out that these people are pimps, heretics, and con artists. I guess Satan has her blinded, eh?
If that is the case as she has stated then when Jesus himself was being tempted, by Satan, why didn’t he bind him up then? Instead he let Satan”off the hook” (See the Dennis Green tirade) and he FLED. Hmm? And if we constantly are binding him, what type of spiritual rope, twine, chains or gorilla glue are we using? The question I asked as I did as a child, was Why did Wiley Coyote keep buying stuff from ACME when it never worked correctly? I just love hearing these misgided brethern and sisters make off the wall reasoning to validate this belief. Sounds alot like the global warming sham… Church folk are so funny!! You have to love them!!:-D
People like this are an embarrassment to the body of Christ. Where do they get this “stuff’ from? Ignorance is no excuse,for our Lord left His word for all to read. I am grateful for the spirit of discernment. Unfortunately, many so-called Christians do not posess this gift. They are operating under another spirit. Can anyone guess which?
Uh, the spirit of stupidity?
(MN: The trouble is - this spirit isn’t very effective ’cause he can never find the right target. )
N’Cat, come on now. Wow I don’t deny that some are “stupid,” we must remember that many are deceived. The rest are the deceivers, not believing anything, but what their flesh desires. We must continue to preach truth and pray for those who are deceived. They are the ones who will eventually come into the truth- the rest are idiots…
The “stupidity” involves not just specifically this person, as much the system and the majority of its adherents are more interested in getting a high from making noise publicly based on ignorance, and a refusal to take private time and actually learn scripture. I agree we are to pray for the deceived, but that does not preclude us from speaking the truth for what it is.
The mega-church crowds that are out here now are VERY resistant to sound scriptural teaching. The person having made this “prayer” is a testament to that, and will say whatever is in their hearts to destroy anyone that disgrees with them. I have previously “fellowshipped” with people of this ilk; nearly verbatim the words used to silence righteous critics.
Many people who regularly participate on this blog, and others like them, can personally attest to being met with harsh resistance (up to and including personal death threats, slander, spell-casting–as was pointed out earlier– and other destructive means to shut up critics). These practices are more dangerous than calling someone “stupid,” because they involve activities on par with mediums, spells and witchcraft (things that God SPECIFICALLY instructed us not to be involved in and with) by spiritual infants. Now, in comparing the two, I would be more concerned about these ignorant spell-casters among us.
The more I read on this site, the more I realize the overall depraved nature of mainstream “church”. I get so disgusted that one, I was duped by these fellows some time ago. Secondly, I feel disgusted because I wasted so much precious time on brain dead pursuits rather than picking up my Bible and reading till my understanding had been increased. Lastly, my disgust is that the pimps keep pimpin’ and the sheeps keep defending the ‘mand of gawd.’
Imagine my shock when I started reading and I saw where the Archangel didn’t say, “I bind you Satan in the might, matchless, magnificent name of Jesus!” and Satan didn’t crawl away in defeat. It was the best thing that ever happened to me. I read because I refuse to be lied to by these money grubbing fanatics ever again. I read because I have a son and I will rather die then let him grow up not being able to say ‘Dad told me there would be fools like this.’
Anyway… Let me breath. The more I type, the more angry I get at this mayhem and foolishness. Keep it up Melvin. For every hater, there is someone like me that is edified by this site. God bless you, your works, you family, your readers and anyone that professes the TRUTH of God’s word. Amen.
….Its another example of how these false teachers teach totally contrary to the mandates of scripture. They say that Satan has no power, yet the scriptures say that he caused war in heaven by which a third of the angels where cast out (Rev. 12:4;7-9). He sought tempt the Messiah, during His 40 days of fasting (Matt. 4:1-11). Satan is even referred to as the “god of this world” (2 Cor. 4:4). In a nutshell, contrary to what is commonly taught, Satan has great influence over the activity in the Earth. And for those who say otherwise, why do they still struggle in the flesh? If the enemy is defeated, then what use is there to pray to God for help, protection, and guidence?
Its not that we should be scared of the enemy, but rather, we see from scripture that he is an experienced, powerful, and worthy opponent. He knows who God is, he knows mankind, he knows God’s will, and he knows scripture. These are the reasons why he can so easily and effectively decieve man. This is evidenced by the waywardness of the modernday Church and the blindness of the nonbelieving world at large.
Greetings,
This is an interesting question, and so I went back to some scripture to try and see what possible answers might lie there regarding this matter of “binding and loosing”, which, I confess, has always confused me a little.
The first reading was Luke 4, Jesus’ temptation by Satan in the wilderness. I noticed that Jesus (1) Did not “bind” Satan. He (2)responded with scripture that was focused on God, and (3)endured the temptation.
Then, In Luke 10, we read that Jesus 70 desciples had power over demons (”Lord, even the demons are subject to us in Your Name”) altho’ He told them not to rejoice in that, but trather that their names were written in Heaven.
The third passage I thought of was Mark 9, 14-29, wherein Jesus casts out a deaf and dumb spirit, and the disciples ask Him why they could not cast it out, and Jesus replies “This kind can come out by nothing but fasting and prayer.”
I would surmise from these verses, and others, the reference to Jude being one, that (1) Sometimes what God wants us to do is simply look to Him and resist the adversary, using a knowledge of the Word. (2) we as believers today do not have the ability to cast out all demons; even the disciples were unable to prevail against all of them (suggesting perhaps, that some are weaker than others?) I personally believe that God never intended for believers to try and “bind Satan” Satan is far too powerful a spirit for any believer to do more than to rely on the power of the Holy Spirit to resist his temptations. Jesus seemed to rank exorcisms by the disciples on down the list of things to rejoice about.
Perhaps the way to look at it is to ask, “Does Satan have any power over believers, because of our being sons and daughters of God, through his grace and the power of the Holy Spirit” If I can grow as a believer enough to consistently just resist the adversary, I will be happy.
Just my thoughts
Forest
Man, I’m a bit jealous - I get a lot of death threats but no one has ever prayed to “bind the demonic forces at work” in me…what do I have to do to get that kind of attention.
Mel, could you please point the she-princess Denise to my blog, please? I could use a little fiber…
I’m amazed at how the crowd can just walk by and not even here the message against the false teaching of the positive gospel. Joel believes the Mormans are saved, I heard that on Larry King. He’s not judgemental towards those that continue to live in sin, they can be help by reading his positive gospel messages. How does that fill the arena’s, except they chose to be deceived? The Word of the Lord was totally ignored by the masses, as the Preacher preached truth about Jesus and what Joel’s not preaching. There is a great falling away. Many desire the smooth things as Jeremiah spoke about.
So whats the origin of the bind satan approach, what have they corrupted or misinterperated to get to this myth?
Matthew 18: 15-20
15″If your brother sins against you,[b] go and show him his fault, just between the two of you. If he listens to you, you have won your brother over. 16But if he will not listen, take one or two others along, so that ‘every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.’[c] 17If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector.
18″I tell you the truth, whatever you bind on earth will be[d]bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be[e] loosed in heaven.
19″Again, I tell you that if two of you on earth agree about anything you ask for, it will be done for you by my Father in heaven. 20For where two or three come together in my name, there am I with them.”
More specifically vs. 18. The context is church discipline (and so is vs. 19-20 but that doesn’t stop us from using it everytime a prayer service is poorly attended.) link this to direct commands or prophecies about the disciples and there you have it.
Up until a few short years ago you might have heard me ‘praying’ like this lady. Until I got out from under the influence of Kenneth E Hagin and my WoF Hagin-ite pastor and began looking at the scriptures afresh I was just as duped I suppose as she. I started wondering on this topic: “If I could [or anyone else for that matter] ‘BIND’ Satan by proclaimation in Jesus’ name, just who was the jerk letting him go free again all the time?” Sheesh! Someone was undoing all the spiritual good I was accomplishing and now I had to ‘Bind’ him alll over again, whew!
The first part sounds like an incantation I heard on that TV show Charmed.
Imagine that. Casting spells in the name of Jesus against satan.
Verrrrry effective, huh?
MJ and folks,
What Denise and others are doing is spell casting. It is pagan. If you take out the Christian language it would be called just that. I declare I will be slim, rich, and hairy headed by the name of the Tulip Goddess. Take an incantation like that and put in the name of Christ and voila!! You’ve got the blab-it-n-grab-it nonsense. Isn’t this just what you see on shows and movies that glamorize witchcraft for our kids? Is such paganism magically sanctified by changing the name invoked?
NO. It isn’t.
The Regulative Principle was a doctine of the old guys like Luther, Calvin, Toplady, and the London Baptists. It is still practiced by some Modern Reformeds. It states that no religious practice not specifically commanded in Scripture or imported from other religions will be allowed. Anyone who does so will repent or be excommunicated for heresy.
It is supported by many Scriptures and before the New Evangelical movement with Carl Henry, Fuller Theological Seminary, and Billy Graham it was practiced by American Evangelicals. That changed in the early and mid 1900’s when we decided to be more “tolerant” than God is. (He seems to always think He’s right.)
MJ made excellent points about the idea of one of us “binding” Satan. Under the power and leading of the Holy Spirit certain believers commanded demons in Scripture, but we aren’t given carte blanche–Read Job.
Furthermore, by continuing to recommend false teachers, especially after being confronted with the facts, Denise is sinning against Scripture on that count as well. In this, she partakes in the same sin as the false teachers themselves. In Hebrew Bible, one was to kill anyone who recommended a false teacher. This was true even if the person doing the recommendation was your own mother. And one wasn’t just to turn her in to the authorities, but you were expected to personally start the assault that would result in her death.
Here are some Scriptures for your consideration:
On the Regulative Principle: Lev. 10:1, Deut. 12:5 (the Jews weren’t even allowed to choose the place of worship, but were to worship only where He said), Deut. 12:8, 13-14, 29-31, Jer 7:31, Rev 2:12-17.
On the recommendation of known false teachers: Rev. 2:12-17 again, II John 9-11, Deut. 13:6-11.
Also research on the subject of Corporate Holiness, an important forgotten doctrine that was harped upon repeatedly in both Old and New Covenants. Has anyone even heard of that doctine today in modern churches? When was the last time you heard a sermon on holiness or Corporate Holiness? This is a major theme of Exodus, Leviticus, Deuteronomy, Revelation 2, James, all the prophets, and–well–the Bible.
Check it out,
Phil Perkins. PS–Sorry for the wordiness.
Phil
Your words deserve a posting of its own. I believe many of us fail to see the importance of the regulative principle and why and how the Reformers came to formulate this view from scripture. After much exmination I believe that New Covenant Theology alongside the normative principle is causing much damage to the church today even though the promoters say it is a Christ exulting view - I see it more and more as a cop out to the fact that God HAS put restrictions on us. Much of the foolishness we see today is due to the abandonment of proper scriptual exegesis and people having “itching ears”
Phil Perkins, very well said.
I had not mentioned it here, but I’m glad you raised it so clearly and GCMW brought it up too.
The supposed “prayer” MJ posted about reminds me of VOODOO, tossing some “blood” in an effort to cast out some spirit. It’s honestly the use of the doctrine of demons to try and cast out a demon, like tossing gasoline on a fire. Rather than casting them out, demons likely cheer each time that misguided method is used, because they probably inspired it.
In the Bible, someone please tell me where any follower of the Lord Jesus or Jesus Christ HIMSELF ever casted out a demon with assertions of “blood”? The BLOOD of Jesus is the price paid for our redemption from the sin we committed against God ourselves. It’s not something to be tossed in cavalier chants like some witch doctor. We have no rule over the blood of our Lord, to try and toss it at our command.
Not that I’m schooled enough in church history to have known the theological title, but the Regulative Principle is something I’ve always promoted, although not by that name. And honestly, I don’t even see where we have Biblical affirmation of things like Men’s Day and Women’s Day. I’m even a little leery about “Pastor’s Anniversary”, but at least there is scripture that speaks of the church honoring Elders.
I agree with IC, Pastor Foster, and Phil. The entire Prosperity Gospel is replete with incantations of various kinds whether it be “binding” Satan or repeating “money cometh” and other such nonsense.
Now that being said the reason it has such “voodoo” influence is because this can be traced to Azusa which was an orgy of bad doctrine and crazy useless babble.
In general this movement attempts to lessen the authority of God while exalting the power of mere man.
To claim such powers as “binding” Satan, promising 100 fold increases, claiming divine healing, etc, etc, places man as some sort of little god with extraordinary powers.
The fact of the matter is God is sovereign and we are not. Our focus is to be on Christ and Christ alone through both the good and bad in which we are to always seek him regardless of the outcome. However, the problem with admitting God’s sovereignty is that it makes man humble and makes man admit to his feeble weak character while all the while only relying on the strength of God.
In closing people who espouse the WoF, Prosperity, Name it and claim it, etc, etc place man on a pedestal which he has no right to claim.
Kyle
Yup Kyle, the Azusa (not really a) Revival is exactly where this got started as supposed “church” behavior.
IC,
Arbor Day kills me! LOL
Actually, we have freedom on days and comemmorations. Rom. 14.
Well said
.
Without digressing too much as far as I understand the term Regulative Principle is a relatively new term that derived from the Reformers “Sola Scriptura” Even amongst churches that hold to the Regulative Principle you will find differences of opinions BUT at least there is a commitment in these churches to strive and apply what the scriptures teach rather than some wild fanciful notion.
This may be a little off topic but I HATE Pastor and Wife anniversary day. I know that he is deserving of honor I get that.. OK but why is the church celebrating his wedding anniversary by giving a large offering. I swear every year I get sick to my stomach during that time.
(MN: Yeah. How about the man and woman who have stayed together and stayed committed to each other year after year and raised children, no matter what comes into their lives? Are they less deserving since they aren’t the first family? Have they accomplished less than the pastor and his wife? )
Dear Denise, I’m not silenced and I’m not Satan either, nor are my comments here made to promote anything Satan promotes.
Denise, you’re a bit misguided and at a place I once was, promoting very wayward theology, to the point it’s honestly not Christianity, because it’s not what Christ truely gave Christians to do. But if you’d like to talk with me about the scriptures and what the truth is, I’m very easy to reach. We can talk and discuss what Jesus Christ really would have us do.
Oh man what a mess! Melvin I’d suggest you look into Mike Bickle and his “International House Of Prayer” (IHOP) Why he doesn’t get sued for using IHOP I have no idea. Bickle was in with the infamous K.C. Prophets i.e. Bob Jones,Rick Joyner,John Paul Jackson and even Todd Bentley was with them for a while. Maybe you already have reported on Bickle. From what I hear what they do at their “IHOP” is wilder than what this Denise is doing.
Ah! I see you did put a little something about Bickle. Silly me I should’ve searched your site better. You posted about Bickle when Ted Haggard was exposed I missed it sorry about that.
Here’s a good explanation of the terms binding and loosing:
“The authority to bind and loose is the authority to declare what is God’s mind on a matter of doctrine or practice. This is what the early church did in Acts 15. To “bind” is to obligate, to “loose” is to remove obligation. The future perfect tense (”shall having been bound”) shows that this authority is only valid when used in submission to Christ’s word or teaching. It does not give the church the authority to make up new teachings later in church history. Binding in this context has nothing to do with speaking words to Satan or demons.”
The full article can be found here: http://cicministry.org/commentary/issue1.htm
I am still in the process of deprogramming from all of the terribly false doctrine I was “taught” when I sat under my “man of God” (after all, he was given to me as a gift from God to feed me with knowledge and understanding) and served faithfully “under his covering” for about 17 years.
I like what Jacob Prasch says: “If we can bind Satan, who keeps letting him go?”
That’s GOOD!
A Satanist named Bob in New Jersey.
How do you bind Satan?
You pray that God will send John Hagee to sit on him.
(MN: No, no, no! That would be crushing Satan’s head…and chest…and legs…and everything else. )
That’s cruel.
Ok! If finally read this after watching the video I see what’s going on..oh my, well it reminds me of the Sonic Rush game- Nintendo DS.
I can’t seem to locate anywhere in Scripture where “binding and loosing” is attributed to anyone except the Apostles anyway. So, regardless of the fact that “binding and loosing” is being used by our benighted sister in a way completely opposite of Scripture, even if she wasn’t twisting it (which she is) it wouldn’t apply to HER as a prerogative anyway (unless she’s yet another who goes about calling herself “apostle so-and-so” contrary to Biblical criteria………..which wouldn’t shock me).
Actually GaryV,
The mention of binding and loosing as noted in Matthew 18:18 can be regarding matters of church discipline. Jesus says it right there in speaking about the order for church discipline. The one brought under church discipline is also bound in Heaven to that discipline. The one rejected by the church is rejected by Heaven as well, so long as the church has done so via righteous judgment, to reject someone who should be rejected.
The charge of a more apostolic nature is in Matthew 16:19. But even that has application to the church as a whole in its charge to share the gospel with those who are lost. They laid the foundation that we are charged to keep.
Of course you know I’m not trying to say we are holding the Office of Apostle, but we follow in the charge to share the gospel and it looses those who receive it and binds those who reject it. As the Lord wills, by Grace through faith.
Excellent points IC……..I stand corrected as the application extends past the Apostles to church leadership, but I don’t see where it extends to the laity even in the Gospel. I disagree that there is a binding effect on those who refuse the Gospel since they are already bound since birth, before they can either hear or refuse the Gospel.
Neither does it loose when received, since a person must already be loosed by God before the Gospel can do its work.
Men aren’t loosed because they believe in Christ, men believe in Christ because God has loosed them previous to hearing the Gospel.
The unregenerate man is unable to understand the Gospel.(Rom 3:10-11)Regeneration must come before understanding.
Eph 1:18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened (regeneration/loosing); that ye may know what is the hope of his calling (Gospel)
God must regenerate the man before man can see the kingdom of Heaven to accept it in the Gospel.(Jn 3:3)
If man is not already loosed and freed from his spiritual bindings before the Gospel is preached to him, he can neither understand the Gospel nor seek after God for Salvation.
Maybe I misunderstood your meaning, but I agree with your point that the authority is vested in church leadership. I just don’t see it going past there to the laity in an authoritative way even with the Gospel.
BOY I’ve missed chatting with you!!
GaryV, Yea I always miss being around. But my schedule is “complicated”
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I disagree with your assertion that regeneration comes before delivery of the Gospel. You tell me from the real examples we have in the Acts of the Apostles? Acts 2:37, were their hearts pierced before or after the gospel was preached? Who pierced their heart, the Apostle or God? And if we agree it was God, did God as documented right there in scripture do it before or after the preaching? Acts 10, did confirmation of regeneration come before or after the gospel was preached?
Who is regenerated without the gospel being delivered to them? Without the preacher, they don’t hear, Romans 10:14. So God has declared, that the gospel will not be heard without a preacher to deliver it and this He has declared by His own sovereignty. That the gospel is delivered at the predestined time and place by the predestined preacher and He decides who will be pricked in the heart to receive once the gospel is preached to them. The predestined saints who are to receive at that predestined time at that predestined place
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(MN: Okay gentlemen. I want a clean fight. Keep your blows above the belt. At the bell at the end of each round, you will stop for the round. All breaks should be clean. No head butts. No laces. Keep it clean. Now, shake hands, go back to your corners, and wait for the bell. )
Rom 3:9 What then? Are we better than they? Not at all; for we have already charged that both Jews and Greeks are all under sin; 10 as it is written,
“THERE IS NONE RIGHTEOUS, NOT EVEN ONE;
11 THERE IS NONE WHO UNDERSTANDS (the unregenerate cannot understand the things of God…….how can he receive them??),
THERE IS NONE WHO SEEKS FOR GOD (the unregenerate do not SEEK for God….);
12 ALL HAVE TURNED ASIDE, TOGETHER THEY HAVE BECOME USELESS;
THERE IS NONE WHO DOES GOOD,
THERE IS NOT EVEN ONE. (Doing good would by definition include receiving Christ, accepting the Gospel, repenting of sin, no??) ”
13 “THEIR THROAT IS AN OPEN GRAVE,
WITH THEIR TONGUES THEY KEEP DECEIVING,”
“THE POISON OF ASPS IS UNDER THEIR LIPS”;
14 “WHOSE MOUTH IS FULL OF CURSING AND BITTERNESS” (The unregenerate are characterized by lying, cursing and bitterness toward God…….the same fount cannot send out bitter and sweet water according to James.);
15 “THEIR FEET ARE SWIFT TO SHED BLOOD,
16 DESTRUCTION AND MISERY ARE IN THEIR PATHS,
17 AND THE PATH OF PEACE THEY HAVE NOT KNOWN. ”
18 “THERE IS NO FEAR OF GOD BEFORE THEIR EYES. (The unregenerate do not fear God, which is the BEGINNING of wisdom.)”
1 Cor 12:3 Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus is accursed”; and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit (No one can confess Jesus as Lord except by the Holy Spirit…….Who does not dwell in the unregenerate. So how does any man confess Jesus as Lord before regeneration??)
Jn 3:19 “This is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their deeds were evil. 20 “For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. (Everyone who does evil would necessarily include the sinner, no?? Well, the sinner does NOT come to the light. Who does come?? See verse 21)21 “But he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God.” Coming to the light is preceded by practicing Truth. How can thew sinner do this?? Only those FIRST regenerated by God can do so. Sinners cannot).
1 Cor 2:14 14 But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised. (the natural man does not only not accept the things of the Spirit…..he cannot even UNDERSTAND them. And since the Gospel is a thing of the Spirit, the unregenerate cannot understand the Gospel, never mind receive it.The things of the Spirit include the ministration of the Gospel, repentance, faith, confession of Christ as Lord,all of which are expressly cited as being of the Spirit in Scripture.
Since all these things are of the Spirit,and are necessary for Salvation, and the natural man does not receive OR even understand the things of the Spirit, how then does the unregenerate man receive or understand the Gospel?? How can a natural man repent?? How can a natural man confess Christ?? How can a natural man have faith?? He cannot……….UNTIL he first ceases to BE a natural man.
The natural man hates God, he cannot understand the things of the Spirit (which include the Gospel, repentance, faith, confession), and even if he could understand them (which he can’t) he does not receive them anyway and considers them foolish. And if the natural man cannot receive the Gospel, faith, repentance, and the confession of faith from the Spirit (which Scripture clearly states), he cannot come to Christ until God first regenerates him and changes his nature so that he CAN receive these things of the Spirit.
Jn 6:63 “It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and are life (But the flesh is ALL the unregenerate HAVE. They don’t receive the things of the Spirit which are necessary to Salvation.)
Phil 1:29 For to you it has been granted for Christ’s sake, not only to believe in Him, but also to suffer for His sake (Notice that Christ MUST FIRST grant faith, because it is of the Spirit. The unregenerate cannot receive faith because it is of the Spirit. So, if you HAVE faith to receive the Gospel, you had to FIRST receive it from Christ. And ONLY the regenerate CAN receive the things of the Spirit such as faith)
2 Tim 2:24 The Lord’s bond-servant must not be quarrelsome, but be kind to all, able to teach, patient when wronged, 25 with gentleness correcting those who are in opposition, if perhaps God may grant them repentance leading to the knowledge of the truth, (Notice that God must FIRST grant repentance BEFORE the natural man can know the Truth. But repentance is a fruit of the Spirit, which the natural man cannot receive. Therefore, all those who are granted repentance MUST be regenerated BEFORE they can receive it) 26 and they may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the devil, having been held captive by him to do his will. (Again, first the natural man must be regenerated BEFORE he can receive the things of the Spirit such as repentance……….only THEN can he come to knowledge of the Truth and escape the snare of the devil.)
Jer 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and it is exceedingly corrupt: who can know it?
This deceitful and corrupt heart of the natural man is a severe problem, since:
Rom 10:10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and
with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.
So, the natural man, who cannot receive the things of the Spirit (which include the Gospel and repentance and faith) must believe unto Salvation with a heart that is desperately wicked and deceitful?? Impossible.
That is why God, as stated above, FIRST regenerates the heart. Without that, how does the natural man’s wicked and deceitful heart begin to love the God it hates?? Especially when the unregenerate man does not understand the Gospel nor receive the things of the Spirit necessary to respond to the Gospel such as faith, repentance, and the ability to confess Christ from the heart??
OK GaryV has gone and written a book for me. All I can say is, Lord willing I’ll have time to review fully and respond over the next day or week
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I thought I kept it brief LOL!!
GaryV,
I think this is a matter of perspective rather than an outright disagreement.
As a fellow Monergist we would ALL agree that election was decided well in advance.
However, when we were yet unsaved (earthly) none of us knew that we were one of the elect. We were just as blind as the reprobate until our eyes were opened, hearts were changed, and made spiritually alive by the Sovereign God.
That being said, it was not until we repented were we cognizant of our salvation. In fact even we Monergist will say, “I was saved in____” or “I was _____ years old when I was saved”.
So from Gods perspective this was all decided long before we repented, however from the Human perspective we usually respond with a “date” or “age” or something like that.
So in closing I don’t think there is any real disagreement on the issue.
Kyle
I agree completely Kyle……just wanted to see how the conversation evolved. All the soteriological passages of Scripture that either side uses as prooftexts are harmonized beautifully if the time is taken to discover whether the perspective is from God’s or man’s point of view.
However, I’m not strictly talking about Election, though that component is of course present. Yes, the Elect were determined before the foundation of the world……….however the question at hand is whether or not regeneration precedes Salvation in the Elect.
The Bible is clear that the unregenerate man is unable to receive the things of the Spirit of God, does not seek God, and cannot understand that which is spiritually discerned.
In that state it is impossible to understand the Gospel, repent, confess Christ, or do anything the Bible describes as “spiritual good” since ALL spiritual good emanates ONLY from a heart already united to Christ.
So………there is NO HOPE for ANY MAN to be saved until God FIRST does a work in the individual heart as an act of His own will and not in any way dependent upon the will of natural man (who is INCAPABLE of receiving ANYTHING from the Spirit of God, which again includes the desire to seek God,Repentance, Salvation, Confession, and the ability to even understand the Gospel.)
Without these things, which the Scriptures explicitly state are products of the Spirit of God which are unavailable to the natural man without God’s intervention outside of man’s will, no man can be saved because the natural man NEEDS all these things of the Spirit to GET saved…….. none of which are available to him.
The natural man confronted by the Gospel is hardened in his hatred for God, not moved to love God. Only those whose heart God has already changed and which has been enabled to receive the things of the Spirit (which the natural man cannot receive) is affected positively by the Gospel.
So, where is boasting?? It is excluded, because no man can receive the Gospel as an act of his own will until God first changes his heart and enables him to receive the things of the Spirit.
Soli Deo Gloria.
GaryV,
Hope you’re having a good weekend my brother.
That is why God pricks the heart, that is when reception occurs and the only evidence in scripture of the point when reception occurs. Physically they heard, but spiritual reception occurs after the gospel is preached, just as it is written to have occurred in the scriptures I’ve already cited for you.
The issue is NOT one of “hearing”, read further in the same letter, <a href=”http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?q=Romans+10%3A18-19″Romans 10:18-19. The issue is a matter of UNDERSTANDING WHAT WAS HEARD. This is why the heart is pricked and understanding comes of what was already heard.
I think you’re missing where I point out, that the heart is pricked after the preaching is heard and then the response comes.
We have no disagreement there, but we only have a disagreement on whether scripture proves that regeneration occurs before or after the Gospel is preached.
Again, we agree. And scripture proves after the gospel is preached, the human hears, although initially not fully able to understand and then God pricks the heart and understanding comes of what was heard.
(See what I said above starting with “Again, we agree”.)
Repentance comes after the sorrow of conviction of knowing the truth of ones own helplessness, 2 Corinthians 7:10. We have no dispute that one is regenerated and then responds in repentance.
(See what I said above starting with “Again, we agree”.)
I was more concerned with the fact you suggested regeneration occurs BEFORE the gospel is preached. We agree regeneration comes before salvation.
If not pricked in the heart, yes. But if pricked because he is of the elect, he is moved to love God. Scripture shows that prick happens after the preaching.
You seem to dismiss that the person preached to did in fact hear and scripture affirms that. It is only a matter of whether God permits them to understand what they heard. Scripture affirms those who do understand are pricked in the heart after the gospel is preached. Nothing shown says God first pricks and then the gospel is preached, but the opposite, the gospel is preached and then the heart is pricked to understand what was already preached. God causes the preaching to occur and then delvers understanding of it.
Why I think this is important to discuss, is because folks like Billy Graham claim that there are saved people out there already saved and never heard the gospel.
that is correct, sadly, many of these churches who teach that crap don’t have a presence of church disipline in their congregations to begin with
jcart91, You mean you don’t beleive in late “archbishop” Earl Paulk’s “kingdom relationships”. Where the “bishop” can have special time with women who are not his wife?
And you don’t beleive that when caught, the “bishop” can say sorry and take a little time off then jump back up preaching?
That’s Word of Faith church discipline for the “bishop”, take a vacation and come back “refreshed”…
And if a “bishop” can’t find a home, so long as he brings in some loot, “bishop of bishops” Paul Morton will take them under his wing. As he’s done with Clarence McClendon and others.
Phil Perkins and others here have said it quite well. This is spell casting to literally control other people. Kind of like Santaria, but using Jesus instead of pagan African gods. Denise and people like her are sadly pathetic and delusional people with little boy/girl power fantasies. We are humans, not gods.
Excellent post Melvin. The attitude expressed by the person who sent this to IC is all to prevalent in the church today. A few weeks ago during the intro to his sermon our pastor declared ” I came to kill some devils today.” Now of course my immediate reaction was, how are you going to kill a spirit? Then, how are you going to do something that nobobody else in scripture ever did? In fact the bible never talks about killing satan, or demons, but them being condemned to hell for eternity.
It amazes me how these fads get started and take on a life of their own. How they become a spiritual version of internet urban myths. And the really sad part about all of this is that these people refuse to search the scripture on this issue. Part of what fuels this nonsense is the misguided notion that Christians are supposed to be some kind of spiritual versions of comic book super heroes. We seem to forget that the paradox of Christianity is when we are weak, then we are strong. That’s what Paul discovered when God refused to remove his thorn in the flesh. And that’s why he declared that he would glory in his INFIRMITIES. Like Doubting Thomas so aptly put it, we are not gods.
Hey Ken R if your pastor is teaching stuff like killing devils,I’d suggeset you run for the hills and find yourself a solid church. You’re correct we are not gods! Copeland a few years ago said that we Christians should get to the place where we actually glow like Moses did! I kid you not! Funny,I’ve yet to see Kenny’s hands or any other part of him glow!
It’s interesting that except for the wealth, we never see in their lives any of the things the pimps tell us can and should be in ours. They get sick. They die. They get divorces. If they’re gods, how come they have so much trouble? And how come their lives are just as jacked as the rest of us?
So true Melvin. Here where I live, the pastor of a megachurch just got arrested for assaulting his ex-wife. At the church! In front of the members! And their ten year old daughter! Yet despite all of this he is still the pastor! And I cannot believe the number of people rushing to his defense. And of course the defenders are blaming it all on an attack of the “enemy.”
Ken, I wonder why the passah just didn’t “bind” his ex-wife…….though how a pastor even HAS an ex-wife I cannot fathom.
I will agree that he was attacked by an enemy though. Ignorance.
So many ppl on this site act as if they are experts in the things of God. I have attended prayer meetings where we bound the works of the enemy and people were healed (actual members with documented and visible injuries/conditions).
(MN: On the bright side, God is quite gracious and can heal despite our error. On the darker side - Satan can do signs and wonders as well. But his “healing” is anything but gracious and comes with a terrible cost. If nothing else, he is more than willing to do some things simply to keep you in darkness [if you believe the things Denise obviously believes]. )
We are so “enlightened” now to the point where we would rather sit and debate if someone is praying correctly rather than focus on the greater issue, which is the saving and delivering of lost souls.
(MN: The folks who did works in Jesus’ name and who will face him at the judgment, they did stuff in Jesus’ name. What happened to them? Why, I believe their prayers [along with their entire theology] were wrong. People were healed but the workers of the miracles were told to get away from Jesus because they never knew him. Which is more important, someone getting healed or someone receiving salvation? )
I would love to see how many regulars on here are active in their so called churches and better yet, how many actually attend church (I have a feeling that most probably have home Bible studies because the entire body of Christ is off course).
(MN: Let’s see. I attend Reformation Alive Baptist Church in Temple Hills MD. GaryV attends a church quite a distance from his house in Florida. Independent Conservative attends a church in Tennessee. None of us are saying there is no “right” churches out there. Also, read the posting about leaving a church. It’s someplace around 2005-6.
Further, I teach a Bible study at work and rotate teaching one at church. If things go as they are supposed to, I’ll also be doing New Members class at Reformation Alive Baptist Church in Temple Hills Maryland.
Many of the regulars have encouraged others to be a part of a local church. When I get e-mails from folks who have been discouraged by the pimps, I insist they find a healthy church to be a part of.
For about a month, I passed out free [and not cheap] books on how to identify a health church. I sent out some thirty copies. I have a couple of copies left over. Would you like one? I would be more than happy to send you one.
On what [other than what seems like either anger at hearing something you've not heard before or the typical ignorant knee jerk reaction of those blinded by their ecclesiastical pimp] do you base your statement about a lack of involvement? May I suggest you read through the site before you shoot off your mouth. All that does is make you look very foolish. )
Get real. Stop critiquing everything and be what Christ would have us to be: disciples.
(MN: I don’t critique everything. I do, however, warn folks about the pimps. And being a disciple means we give attention to His word, right? That’s all I’m doing. Of course when you use the term “disciple” I suspect you mean we should be silent, not cause any trouble, and not put our mouths on the mand of Gawd. )
And Melvin, if you can’t even get your wife to leave First Baptist, please stop obsessing over Pastor Jenkins and that ministry. Your first work starts at home.
(MN: Indeed my first work starts at home. That is why we study together and why I encourage her to worship with me at Reformation alive. Remember, I can’t get her to do anything. It’s not my place to do so. I am to wash her with the water of the word and have faith God will work in her life as He sees fit. She may never commit to RABC. And if she doesn’t, such is the will of God in my life.
And perhaps you should be willing to see John Jenkins for what he is: A pimp who is willing to divide a family for influence and money. But I obsess. )
The entire body of Christ is off course? Does that include you too Derrick? It must,you said the “entire” body of Christ! If you are part of the WoF you’re part of the problem. I’t’s people like R.C. Sproul,John MacArthur,Al Mohler,and last but certainly not least Melvin Jones and everyone else who believes in historical protestantism who are trying to straighten out this mess that’s called the church in this nation! You’re right although not all as you say,but most of the church in America is off course. More and more people are learning from the reformers (Luther,Calvin etc.) instead of the likes of Copeland,Hinn, Osteen and TBN! Oh by the way I’m active in my local church!
Derrick,
You say you’ve seen people who’ve “bound the works of the enemy and people were healed.”
Why arent you in the hospitals “binding the works of the enemy”? These people are flat out lunatics. Go bind the works of the enemy in my hometown where people’s homes are shot up and or fire bombed. Please GO! Bullets are flying where the babies are playing, and on sad occasions they’re hit while going to the store to get sunflower seeds. Go to Flint, Michigan if youre the real deal and can “bind the devil’s works”. But you expect us to believe that youve got him bound eh?
Melvin, you handled the comment about your wife gracefully. My eyes stretched a little and I held my breath when I saw that.
It is amazing how people just “pop” in here and throw that in his face - SMH……….
By God’s mercies, I’m convinced these sheeple are given an opportunity to see and to know the truth about the pimps they love to follow. But on account of their flesh and pride, time and money invested, and the favors and promotions they believe that they are owed, they cling to these false teachers and their methods, secretly hoping to obtain their own piece of the forbidden pie. They’re not thinking of defending God’s righteousness in any way at all. They are a rebellious people plain and simple, and they want what they want.
(MN: Remember too - just as with salvation, God has to move on their hearts to turn to the truth. )
WE HAVE AUTHORITY OVER THE DEVIL. ANGELS CAN’T USE THE NAME OF JESUS. WE HAVE BEEN GIVEN THE NAME. WHEN I SAW THIS WEBSITE WAS DENOMINATIONAL, IN OTHER WORDS BOUND BY RELIGION AND TRADITION, THAT EXPLAINED THE WHOLE MESS. YOU SHOULD NOT CALL PEOPLE PIMPS AND RUN DOWN FOLKS. IF YOU DISAGREE FINE, BUT REMEMBER I COR 13. WORD OF FAITH TEACHES THE LOVE WALK STRONG, THIS MINISTRY SEEMS TO HAVE MISSED IT, BIGGGG TIME!!! QUIT FIGHTING, AND STAY TUNED INTO THE WORD, YES I AM WORD OF FAITH, AND GUESS WHAT, THE WORD IS WORKING FOR ME. i KEEP IT IN MY MOUTH AND HEART. IT WORKS! BE CAREFUL WHO YOU KNOCK, YOU ARE BEING JUDGEMENTAL. THATS A NO NO.
(MN: KAREN! YOU’RE MAKING NO SENSE WHATSOEVER! WHAT DOES A DENOMINATION HAVE TO DO WITH BEING BOUND BY TRADITION? AREN’T YOU BOUND BY TRADITION SINCE YOU BELIEVE YOU CAN BIND THE DEVIL AND THERE IS NOTHING IN THE BIBLE TO INDICATE YOU CAN?!?! WHEN THE DEVIL WAS STANDING RIGHT IN FRONT OF HIM JESUS DIDN’T BIND THE DEVIL!!!
SO HOW CAN YOU SAY YOU ARE NOT BEING WHAT YOU CALL JUDGMENTAL WHEN THE FIRST COUPLE OF SENTENCES IN YOUR COMMENT CALL THIS A MESS?!?!? ISN’T THAT BEING JUDGMENTAL?!?!? ARE YOU BEING HYPOCRITICAL HERE?!?!? AREN’T YOU FIGHTING?
I THINK YOU SHOULD LEARN HOW TO SPEAK QUIETLY and use lower case text. It’s a whole lot easier on your fingers and your vocal chords. Don’t you think? )
Karen, you should not use all caps. On the Internet it is viewed as yelling and ranting, not speaking in a tone of love and peace.
You’re pretty wrong and you certainly don’t have more authority than the angels of God.
Please read Jude 1, again, I’m sure you may have read it before, but please read it all today. You’re speaking from a worse position than you might realize and I’d like for you to share the peace of God and not His wrath.
Melvin, it’s best for people such as these to simply keep their mouths shut. Too much of the ignorance gets to be displayed and critiqued every time these “posts” are encountered. It’s become quite old.
But it’s instructive. And we should be reminded of the fact the folks who make it possible for the pimps to exist in the first place.
Think of them as part of the price for reading the stimulating prose that is pulpit-pimps.org.
Hello, Karen:
I thinking here–yeah, yeah, I know: I’m in dangerous territory–since you have authority over the devil and such: if I paid for your travel, expenses, and so forth, would you please come here to Phoenix and exercise your godly authority and bind my boss. Or, perhaps you could exert your power over a distance a‛ la Jesus in Matthew 8:5-13? And I won’t even have to call you for confirmation!
Thank you.
Peter.
Brother I can only say touché!
I wanna know IC, did her binding work yet? Or did she not step out on faith enough to make it happen?
julianofGOD, Obviously she’s weak in faith
. I’m still talking and typing, but she prayed:
I had an irritating feeling in my back one night that I slept crooked, that’s about as close as I’ve come to being paralyzed
. But repositioning myself on the bed fixed that before I woke up the next morning. Perhaps I prayed in tongues in my dreams and rebuked her rebuke 
?
The fact it didn’t work, should let her know it’s time to reconsider what she’s doing. Cause what she’s up to is a proven failure.
Time for her to stop with the Voodoo type chants. The Bible teaches how to pray and her’s ain’t it!
I should also add, from what I hear, Satan is still on the loose. So it didn’t work for him either.
Sadly IC, I am pretty sure she will use some excuse rather than sit back and actually consider the opposition against her words.
It’s funny, I basically got told to be quiet on FB because an old college friend said he was being elevated to “Apostle” Sunday coming. I pointed out scripture and someone else (another preacher we both know) chimed in and basically told me to stop hindering the move of the man of God.
Oy Veh!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It never ceases. Keep telling the biblical truth IC.
I would have told that “preacher” God has instructed that you keep running your mouth and warning about false apostles. “Preachers” like that are not going to tell the truth. And any “preacher” that defends a pimp is showing they are on the wrong side of things.
(1) You criticize denominations, but Karen, arent you “WORD FAITH” which is a denominational sect of teachings in-an-of-itself?
(2) If you have authority over the devil, then why are you allowing him to do what he does? After all he has to obey you right?
(3) You say Jones should not call people ‘pimps’, and that Jones shouldnt be judgmental, yet you yourself are (((judging him))) in your statement that he’s being judgmental. Pleas see the error of your ways.
Oh, I get it now! You Karen reserve the right to be judgmental of this site and of Jones’ heart by saying he isnt walking in love ( 1Cor13).
But, when Jones judges, you poke him for it, and claim that he should not judge at all, and you even go so far as to saying that being judgmental is a “no no” when ((you)) have just finished being judgmental yourself.
So in short Karen is able to judge, and Jones is not able to judge. Thats not what the Bible teaches Karen.
If you think you can judge, and others cannot, then I wonder what else you have wrong.
(4) Would you mind explaining what you mean by “religion and tradition”? Can you name what traditions / religions are you have seen on this site? Are you just parroting something fly that you heard someone say when you say “religion and tradition”? What do you mean by this?
5. Im reading my newspaper, and it looks like you havent bound that devil yet!
it was always funny to me how people would always claim to bind Satan, well tell me this: if you’re binding Satan, then who’s loosing him? lol! If people would rightly divide their Bible and read a dictionary from time to time, they would know that the word bind means to join together, to tie up, etc. So you’re gonna tell me that you can tie Satan up and keep him from doing what he’s doing? My wife still don’t get it when I keep telling her that what she is saying is nonsense, you can’t Bind Satan, the Bible CLEARLY tell us to submit ourselves to God, resist Satan and he will flee, not bind Satan and he has to stop!
I agree with Gcmwatch 4-real.
#1, Prayers aren’t magic and “in the name of Jesus” isn’t a magical phrase or formula
#2, A declaration of victory over the enemy is in order as we see all throughout Psalms, but a fixation of the devil/enemy and what he’s doing isn’t for prayer or worship.
#3, go back to #1!
#3, These
Pastor Burnett, Pastor Foster
I would like to expound upon your comments. Too often when people use phrases like “In the name of Jesus” or “Satan I bind you in the name of Jesus” what is really taking place is mankind reversing the roles if you will.
In other words man is automatically assuming powers which He may very well NOT have. In times of spiritual distress our focus should be on God and asking Him for deliverance and that His will be done. This way we are humbled in the presence of God and we can rest in His decision over spiritual matters even if the outcome we sought is different from what God actually does.
Kyle
Agreed Kyle…….not to mention the fact that God often uses what we PERCEIVE as evil to accomplish His own plan.For example;
Jerusalem being destroyed by the Assyrians.
The Babylonian Captivity.
Slavery in Egypt.
Joseph’s unjust imprisonment.
Paul’s thorn in the flesh.
The scattering of the early church throughout the world due to persecution.
Most poignantly, the Crucifixion itself, among dozens of other examples in Scripture.
Wouldn’t it have been ugly to see Moses rebuking satan over his exile in the wilderness, which God used to form him into a servant??
Or Joseph railing against the devil when he was thrown into prison??
Or Abraham binding satan because he wasn’t able to have children??
No, God was behind ALL those events, which by human standards were negative, evil, and unjust.
While we’re ignorantly and impotently “binding” satan, we may actually be resisting ( uselessly) the very circumstances God is using to bring Himself Glory.
I think we do right to resist the devil and resist evil. If that weren’t the case we wouldn’t need to pray, as part of prayer is petition. the apostles prayed for what they needed (Acts 4:29) and against the enemy at times. (Acts 28:8) However I think the point is that some enter into mysticism and some form of spirit-ism where they reduce prayer to an incantion topped off with a “magic phrase”. The power of God works within you and not in a phrase. Otherwise a mute is powerless. So the petition against or for something, even if the scope of that something if unknown, is not a problem since all prayer should be subject to his will, but according to scripture intercession must be made by the authority of Jesus (Jn. 14:13-14) with the emphasis on HIM and not so much our phraseology etc.
Family, family, the strength of the sister’s declaration is not so much in the term binding 1 Cor.4:20, but rather it is much in the authorized authority that should follow all those who believe—peep out Mark 16:17; besides, everybody knows that it is better to bind the trash before you cast out the trash, especially if you want to minimize the flies—in this case Satan “aka” Beelzebub, lord of the flies Mat. 12:28,29. As for the Jude 1:9 reference of Michael, not bringing a reviling accusation against Satan, the key word here is dispute, that is to say, Michael didn’t put Satan on blast byway of abusive and that of accusative speech, while disputing. Therefore making the point more of a reflecting one via character, as oppose to a hierarchical one—after all Satan is the only true accuser of the brethren Rev. 12:10.
In conclusion let me say this, as ambassadors of the most High, do not minimize or underestimate the authority granted you through the power of God’ Holy Spirit in Christ’ name, to reconcile the walking dead back to the living God 2 Cor. 5:20. For what you call flippantly, incantations, the scriptures calls in His name you will cast or better yet bind—again, Mark 16:17 as well as Col. 3:17 and further, because we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but rather against principalities, against powers, against rulers of darkness of this age, against wickedness in the heavenly places Eph. 6:12—then the weapons of our warfare cannot be of carnality or that of the flesh, in the pulling down of any strongholds let alone the casting down of disputes and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God as well as bringing every thought (or better yet binding every thought) be it of the devil/demons or your own fleshly desires into captivity to the obedience of Christ 2 Cor. 10:4—until you like the sister in question, who like the Apostles, who like the Christ bound and thus resisted the
devil via the word of the scriptures, the devil will never flee.
(MN: Noel?!? Is that you Noel Jones?!? )
Okay, Mel, if you do not mind, I would like to look at all the verses Saint Ivan used to (attempt) to make his point.
1. Mark 16:17–Says nothing about binding, but rather casting out. Binding, from what I have been able to discern, seems to mean along the lines of stopping the work of an individual evil spirit. Casting out means just that, casting out. I would direct others to Matthew 12 where, in Jesus example, a demon was cast out, but such a demon did not appear to be bound in anyway. It still seemed very much active.
2. Jude 1:9–The point being made by Jude is not the tone that Michael was using, but the fact that one of the strongest and powerful of all God’s creation did not see fit to say “I rebuke you” or “I bind you”, but rather “The Lord rebuke you!” What Denise was doing was saying, “I bind you” or “I paralyze you.”
3. 2 Cor. 5:20– We do not reconcile ANYTHING. Seems as though I am splitting hairs, but this is a big distinction and Paul makes it a big one. We are agents of reconciliation, carrying the message of reconciliation, but Christ (5:19, Col. 1:20) is the means of reconciliation. Again, I do not think I am splitting hairs, but let me know. We do not have the “authority” to reconcile men to God anymore than a diplomat has the authority to offer a peace treaty if he has not been sent with that exact task. We have been given the authority to offer reconciliation and point men to the Reconciler (if that is a word).
4. Colossians 3:17–Context! Paul is not speaking about “binding” demons or evil spirits, but submitting in every way to the Lord Jesus Christ. Doing life in general in Jesus’ name means to walk in a way pleasing to Him.
5. Ephesians 6:12–Correct, we do not war against flesh and blood and we do war against spiritual forces, but God does not leave it up to our imaginations as how to fight against spiritual forces. Hollywood makes this battle look a lot “cooler” than what it actually is. Our battle orders are simplistic: Stand. Stand with the armor of God (righteousness, truth, the gospel of peace, faith, salvation and the word of God), and pray for one another. It does not say “talk to Satan and tell him what to do”. it does not even say “Pray against the works of the Devil”. It simply says stand in what God has given you. If we want to talk about authority let us talk about the authority I have to submit to God’s word, to deny my own flesh and to come before the throne of Grace and pray according to God’s will. Does not sound as amazing as “binding’ enemies, but it is a heck of a lot more Scriptural.
2. 2 Cor. 10:4–Yes, we are to take every thought captive to obey Christ…not every demon and every spirit. Using this verse to make it say such is pouring much more into this than what context will allow.
Finally, Jesus did not bind demons, He cast them out. The Apostles did not bind demons, they cast them out. The sister in question CANNOT bind demons, nor did she cast one out with her show. The Devil will flee not when I first “bind” him, but when I submit to the will of God in obedience. Think Jesus in the desert temptations. He did not BIND Satan. He submitted to the will of the Father using the Sword of the Spirit and the Devil fled. I am going to go ahead and take Jesus’ que and say that THIS is how we fight Satan.
Well said, Christopher.
So…What Happens When You Bind Satan?
Nothing.
Except, God will judge the one who does it, for it was He who sent the devil against man after
he sinned. He also placed him on his throne, not man. Look up the term “evil spirit” in the Old Testament. In every case, God sends it. God. Even against Job, it was God who authorized Satan to attack him to have him tested for his integrity. It was God who sent the demon against
Paul the apostle.
The only difference in the NT was that Jesus and his disciples cast them out of people. It was this special and limited authority that they practiced and to which Jesus referred in Luke 10:19. They never cast them down from their places of authority such as you see them vainly attempting to do today. So, whoever practices this empty ritual didn’t get it from the Bible.
Stan,
Can you please clarify what you mean. I too am a Monergist but I am NOT a “high” Calvinist NOR am I a Supralapsarian.
That being said, are you saying that God actively or passively sent evil spirits and such?
I’m just looking for clarification.
Kyle
The wording makes it clear to me that God actively dispatches these spirits.
First instance in the Bible, Judges 9:23: Then God sent an evil spirit between Abimelech and the men of Shechem; and the men of Shechem dealt treacherously with Abimelech,
1 Samuel 16:14
Now the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD terrorized him.
1 Samuel 16:15
Saul’s servants then said to him, “Behold now, an evil spirit from God is terrorizing you.
1 Samuel 16:16
“Let our lord now command your servants who are before you. Let them seek a man who is a skillful player on the harp; and it shall come about when the evil spirit from God is on you, that he shall play the harp with his hand, and you will be well.”
1 Samuel 16:23
So it came about whenever the evil spirit from God came to Saul, David would take the harp and play it with his hand; and Saul would be refreshed and be well, and the evil spirit would depart from him.
1 Samuel 18:10
Now it came about on the next day that an evil spirit from God came mightily upon Saul, and he raved in the midst of the house, while David was playing the harp with his hand, as usual; and a spear was in Saul’s hand.
1 Samuel 19:9
Now there was an evil spirit from the LORD on Saul as he was sitting in his house with his spear in his hand, and David was playing the harp with his hand.
The incident of the lying spirit that was deliberately dispatched by God to the false prophets of Ahab in 1 Kings 22:20-23 to deceive him to go to battle. The LORD said, ‘Who will entice Ahab to go up and fall at Ramoth-gilead?’ And one said this while another said that. Then a spirit came forward and stood before the LORD and said, ‘I will entice him.’ “The LORD said to him, ‘How?’ And he said, ‘I will go out and be a deceiving spirit in the mouth of all his prophets.’ Then He said, ‘You are to entice him and also prevail. Go and do so. Now therefore, behold, the LORD has put a deceiving spirit in the mouth of all these your prophets; and the LORD has proclaimed disaster against you.”
Job 1:11-12 But now, stretch out Your hand and touch all that he has, and he will surely curse You to Your face!” And the LORD said to Satan, “Behold, all that he has is in your power; only do not lay a hand on his person.”
So Satan went out from the presence of the LORD.
In the New Testament: Paul the Apostle. [Notice that the only two men named Saul in the Bible had evil spirits sent to them by God - One for judgment, one for chastening for his spiritual good.]
Because of the surpassing greatness of the revelations, for this reason, to keep me from exalting myself, there was given me a thorn in the flesh, a messenger of Satan to torment me–to keep me from exalting myself! 2 Cor 12:7
Paul did not rebuke the devil, but three times entreated the one who sent it to have it depart - God.
That God sends such things is found in 2 Thess. 2:11-12 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
Even in how they operate in the world, the incident with Gabriel in Daniel 10:20 shows heaven’s involvement. The angel was to go forth after speaking with Daniel and put down one demon ruler (the Persian one) to make way for another demon ruler (the Grecian one).
Rev. 9:1b-4 shows that demons are commanded with certain authorizations and restrictions just as in Job: And I saw a star fallen from heaven to the earth. To him was given the key to the bottomless pit. And he opened the bottomless pit, and smoke arose out of the pit like the smoke of a great furnace. So the sun and the air were darkened because of the smoke of the pit. Then out of the smoke locusts came upon the earth. And to them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power. They were commanded not to harm the grass of the earth, or any green thing, or any tree, but only those men who do not have the seal of God on their foreheads.
Can you provide a link to that sorry decree made by that deluded woman against Independent Conservative?
(MN: It was a comment she posted here. )
My dear brother Christopher, for starters, Big Brother Melv, you know you’re wrong for the “NO Jones” inquest—Ha!
Now as, to the Blog-bical class that is needed via the rebuttal of said brother Christopher I shall thus began:
Point one- because it is implicit in the fact that one cannot cast a thing until one has hindered, bind and/or apprehended the thing in which one would like to cast. But maybe this will help you. The word used for Binding is the Greek word DEO, which could mean to Hinder, that is to say, Prevent byway of chains—peep out 2 Tim. 2:9 as well as that of a demon Luke 13:16—or it could mean Constrain, such in the case of the Apostle to the gentiles Paul— in that, he was bound in spirit i.e., compelled by his convictions under the constraining power of the Spirit of God, to go to Jerusalem Acts 20:22.
Point two: tone is not the word that I used, but rather it was the word character— because all you had to do was peruse one verse down via the same said chapter and the whole of verse 9 would have unfolded as to what the Apostle Jude was speaking on— in that sinful dreamers who would not only defile their flesh, but much more they reject authority and speak evil of dignitaries. Thus, it is for this reason that I stated that it was a CHARACTER issue and not that of a hierarchal one, because they both were Archangels— Why! because later we find that it is the same said Michael along with his angels that Satan was DEO and then cast along with his angels/demons out of heaven Rev 12:7,8. To further express the point, via character, let us consider David, the one who was after God’ own heart. And then let us consider Saul, thus we have two kings— whereas, one is called and the other
is chosen, though Saul in the seed since of the word was of the called, tried to kill as well as vilify David, David as the chosen did not at one time bring reviling accusation against Saul.
Point three- yes! You are splitting hairs. Now do this, hold one finger on 2 Cor. 5:20 and flip to Jude 1:22 and peep your authority in Christ— in that, the doxology of Jude is as follows— on some have compassion making a distinction; but with others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire— in fact, I can go further via authority, peep out your authority to cast out and then reconcile even a believer 1 Cor 5:4,5 & then 2 Cor. 2:5-8.
As to the term Ambassador, the word used via Greek, is PRESBEIA— in what the New Testament calls preachers and/or elder, you know the ones you are to submit to because they must give account for your soul Heb. 13:17— and in what the Old Testament would call a true prophet, such as, the thus says the Lord type.
because what you must not fail to realize via the days of old is that because they did not have Skype, an ambassador was consider not only a high ranking official,
but much more the literal representative of the kings word, by becoming the actual voice box of the king in his absents.
Point four- Noooo, what part of WHATEVER you do in word or deed don’t you understand— try this, Satan, in the name Jesus, I as an ambassador of the Most High God
bind and thus hinder your plans that you may cease perverting the straight ways of the Lord, and now peep out Acts 12:9 to get the applicable point. Better yet, another applicable point could made via the WORDS Daniel— peep Daniel 10:12-14, keeping in mind that we have something much better than Daniel— that is to say, we have petition access to the throne byway of God’ Spirit peep 1 Jn. 5:14,15.
Point five-on this point, I was almost tempted to submitting your name to a good New Convert Class in your area. But, because time would fail me to continue this Blog-bical class— I will therefore conclude by stating this— warfare denotes activity and activity denotes strategy and denotes commitment and commitment denotes standing and denotes faith and faith denotes contending and contending denotes wrestling and wrestling denotes opponent and opponent denotes devil and devil denotes Jesus and Jesus denotes having spoiled principalities and powers, making a show of them openly, triumphing over them in it— which should denote for you, that since He, that is Christ, is the fullness of the Godhead bodily and in Him you should be complete, Why! because He, Christ that is, is the head of all principality and powers— and not Satan, Col. 2:9,10.
(MN: You are Nole Jones!!!! I’m sorry, I don’t allow paid religious interlocutors to post comments on this site. Unless you actually say something on the next post, I suspect this is pretty much it for you. In other words, this comment denotes your inability to make a point. )
If you do not mind, Melvin, I would appreciate the chance to respond to such poor use of Scripture…before you silence him. You are, of course, free to say no.
(MN: If you want to comment, I’ll post it. )
Where is her comment posted outside of your original article up top? I’d like to know where I can read the actual exchange between IC and her in the comments’ section.
(MN: There is no exchange. She submitted the comment. I judged it to be of value as a posting in and of itself. IC then commented on the
curseprayer and it went from there. She has not responded since the “prayer” was given its own posting. What you see are the comments and responses of folks, including IC. )I must indeed admit that such was an education in the use of Scripture, but not all education is good education. Moving on…
“A thing cannot be cast out before it is bound…” interesting idea, but I would love to see where that is used in Scripture. Jesus bound no spirits, He simply forgave men. Paul did not bind spirits, neither did Peter, John or the other apostles. They did, however, tell people to stop sinning. My point? It is not a spirit that needs to be bound, but a heart and mind that needs to be more aligned with that of Christ.
Maybe I am a bit slow, but the link you make between Saul and David/Satan and Michael alludes me. Maybe someone else can pick up on that one for me. But, unless I am mistaken, Jude’s argument is not that Satan still holds the same regal position he used to, so we need to be careful how we speak to him. In fact, along those lines, where are we commanded to speak to Satan anyway…such as the sister was doing in the above prayer? Give me…two passages where we are told to talk to Satan and his minions.
Indeed, once again, you are correct. We are Ambassadors for Christ. In fact, we are royal ambassadors! However, an Ambassador has the authority to do nothing save what the person who sent him has given his the ability to do. I have not been given the authority to speak to Satan upon his own terms. I have, however, been given the authority to pray in the name of the Lord for the prevailing of truth and light. I have not been given the authority to bind Satan (again, I will need passages that say I have been). I have, however, been given authority to pray for those who are bound by Satan (ie. unbelievers).
Yes, I do understand Colossians 3:17. I am to drink water to the glory of God and watch a movie to the glory of God. You speak of spiritual warfare to the glory of God and I agree, but I agree to the warfare on terms of Eph. 6:12 and following. I am not to 1. Bind Satan, 2. Rebuke the works of Satan, 3. Paralyze Satan or any of the sorts. I am told to fight Satan with the word, but what word. THE word, the Scriptures, just as Jesus did in His temptations. Amazing how Jesus, the very Son of God, had the opportunity to bind Satan (even destroy him), but HE quoted Bible at him. As I said before, I am going to go ahead and take Jesus’ lead on that one. You do as you like.
Finally, nothing like a good straw man argument! Me love some straw men! I have never once said that Satan was the head of principality and powers. Yes, Jesus is and they have been defeated, cut down at the cross. Just because I am filled with Christ does not make me have authority over demonic powers. I do not need to have authority over them. Why? They have been disarmed and put to open shame by Christ (Col. 2:15).
PS. Question: Though many have already stated this jokingly…if Satan can be so bound, along with his minions, why not simply criss-cross America binding the works of Satan? How would we know his works were bound? Would people stop sinning? Would all unbelievers in the area come to know the saving grace of Christ? My suggestion would be to start at different studios that produce pornography and work out from there.
Dang it, I forgot to add that the passages about casting out a believer or anything like that…we have the authority to practice CHURCH DISCIPLINE. We can cast the brother out of church fellowship, and then when he has repented, we can reconcile him back. We have not reconciled him to God. He has repented of his sins and, by that, is able to come back into the local fellowship.
Saint Ivan, I thank you for the offer of New Members Class, but being as how you do not use Scripture correctly yourself, I will have to decline. Thanks though!
what! Big Brother Melv…. you’re going to let dear brother Christopher get at me like that, and not let me holla back?
Man, me and you are going to have to do coffee or something— I’m coming to one of your Bible Classes and I want to meet your pastor.
(MN: Yep. Unless you actually say something has a some resemblance to something biblical, you’re pretty much done. If you can’t present something stronger than what you have, what’s the point? I have other things to read, edit, and post. Christobabble from a Noel Jones wannabe is not one of the items I wish to work with.
Reformation Alive Baptist Church, 4915 Saint Barnabas Rd, Temple Hills, MD. Eric Redmond is the pastor. Bible study is from 7 to 8:30 on Thursdays. I’ll be leading a class on Romans 12 in about a month. )
This site should be shut down. It is a pompous, arrogant, prideful display of ignorant, powerless christianity. You are ever learning, but never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. You know Calvin, and Luther, and Zwigli’s doctrine of God, but you don’t know the God of their doctrine.
(MN: I’m not sure what this means. The doctrine doesn’t belong to Calvin et al. It belongs to God as revealed in the Bible. )
If you did, you wouldn’t spend so much time on such a ridiculous argument as this. For a follower of Christ, a believer, of whom the bible says signs should follow, of whom the bible says Christ worketh with them, (Oh..you dont believe that…that all stopped or ceased with the apostles…so typical), there should be no debate as to whether the devil is real.
(MN: No one said the devil is real. There is, however, some question as to whether or not you can actually follow an argument. )
Strawman you say???? No..its not. While you legitimately focus on the extremism in our good sister’s prayer, I can’t help but discern (don’t get scared…its real..) an evil undercurrent of unbelief.
(MN: Unbelief with respect to what?
The rest I’m going to leave alone and let the reader read it in all its splendor. )
You really don’t believe God or the devil is real at all. Funny, Melvin, you say you believe Christians can cast out devils, but in the very next breath dismiss a powerful weapon in any excorcists arsenal. Ok, Melvin, in real life, not your fairy tale world of doctrine, and DEAD reformed superheroes, but in real life, how do you cast out evil spirits? You would probably take a bible, and press it on their heads, or sit them down and try to talk to them about Jesus. But what do you do when the demon’s captive begans to spit up blood because the demons are tearing them and ripping them…what do you do? You better bind them. What do you do when a 135 pound woman is suddenly strong enough to pick up the 250 pound men holding her down, and she is screaming in a man’s voice, I’m not coming out? You better bind that spirit. That’s what Jesus talked about when he spoke of binding the strong man. I know you are going to give it some dead literal interpretation, like you do all the gifts of the spirit and everything else in the bible. Another thing…Melvin…and the rest of you dead book worshippers, I bet you all believe that all believers have the same level of power to cast out demons. Of course you do, because again, you’ve never cast them out. You’ve never seen them. You don’t believe. I know…I’m rambling, but I will not even waste my time organizing this paragraph for people who don’t realize that God is real…and the devil is real. You all might as well be a bunch of atheist!! If you all would just believe that God really is..not just in your mind..in your heart, (watch some self styled intellectual focuse on that…give me a break!!) we could really get busy to refute the arguments that the “Devil” is promulgating to this generation through various cultural mediums. While you all fight about to pimp or not to pimp, the devil has aimed for our philosophical center ie. absolute truth, the preeminence of man, the miracle of natural law, etc, in an effort to make the church totally irrelevant to our world. Can you do at least one post on that?? One post on how to stop real problems in the world…Not these theological pissing contests!!! The world is under seige!!! Get in the Fight!!!
Dear Melvin:
Thank you allowing the poster’s tirade without further editorial remarks. Man, I needed a good laugh this evening, and I am left with a resulting “stitch” in my right side posterior intercostal muscle.
At least your buddy, Mars-hall, was honest with the self-admission: “I know…I’m rambling”.
@ Mars-hall
Dude. Please come back. That was one of the most incoherent rants I have ever had the pleasure to have attempted to read.
You are truly a meteor in the sky . . . rather than a fixed star.
Peter.
Not sure where anyone here said the Devil is not real. I think we did say that the sister’s prayer is not REALLY how you deal with the Devil.
If I may answer, though not Melvin, I would say that casting out and binding are two different things completely.
This passage is not about binding demons. In fact, when Jesus released the man from being possessed He says nothing to the demon about binding it…He simply casts it out and it is over. The binding simply means that Jesus (not you or me) is halting the power of Satan.
Once again, no one said that the Devil was not real. We are simply stating that THIS is not how you deal with him.
If I may be so bold to ask, what are the “real problems in the world”? I mean, you took the time to come to a site where you had to have known that no one was going to agree with you, in order to rant and rave against the host of the site. Then you end by telling him (and by extension those who agree with him) that we need to stop this pissing contests and handle the real problems. Did you not, just now, join in the pissing contest? Anyway, the DEVIL is not making the church irrelevant…so-called believers are doing that on their own…which is why all this “doctrine” is so important. You NEVER live above your doctrine and most rarely live up to it.
MN: Well said CJ. I’m glad I left this to the readers to address. )
Christopher,
Excellent work my friend!…I thought to comment, but decided that hanging from a skyscraper by my eyelids would have been a better use of time…After all, rough statistics show that Mr. Marshall will likely never visit again, placing him in the drive-by-poster category…About the only real thing I paid attention to was “Get in the Fight”, which is a message better reserved for Pacquiao and Mayweather so we don’t have to endure seeing them beat two no-names to a pulp…
Soli Deo Gloria,
R4C
(MN: A lot of times I see the benefit for the rest of the readers, not the drive by commenters. In essense, we are sharing ideas and perspectives in addressing the real life, knee jerk responses we actually get out in religious society. That’s the primary reason I will allow a seemingly pointless discussion go on for several rounds. I’m not expecting the WoFer to have a sudden epiphany. But we do plant the truth, other WoFers get to see it, and we get practice listening to and addressing the issues. )
Mel,
Point well taken…My major issue though is that there are some individuals who are well-meaning seekers and come to the site looking for real answers…Sometimes there is a knee-jerk response between the lines, and that’s just the nature of what they’ve been taught. But don’t you think there’s a difference between those individuals and the ones who come on to strictly establish their position?
Case in point, I know that you can remember that when I initially made a comment on your site, I was making it as a oneness believer who was at a crossroads…Now, when I made the comment on the site and sent you a personal email, that was not the first time that I had seen the site. When I first saw it as a die hard oneness believer, I was irritated with it because it was going against everything that I thought I understood as a believer. Had I made a comment at that time, it would have come off just like Mr. Marshall’s did, because I was vehemently opposed to what the site represented. Furthermore, it seemed you were featuring some of my favorite preachers who in my opinion then were preaching the unadulterated gospel.
Once God did His glorious work on my heart though (this site being one means by which that was done), I made a comment as a true seeker, who had a questioning attitude and was not trying to establish any major position. It is for this reason that I think we should distinguish between the two. Don’t get me wrong. If there is anyone who should know the God’s grace and mercy to those who have evil and sinful thoughts continually, it should be me. I just think that it’s wise to sometimes take this into consideration. I submit this humbly, and let me know if you disagree…
Solus Christus,
R4C
Binding the devil comes from a misunderstanding of Rev 20:1-3. When modern evangelicals read that verse they think that it gives them authority to bind the devil, while in actual fact it doesn’t. Scripturally believers can cast out devils, as has been pointed out in the comments section of this post.
Why didn’t someone bind (hinder, prevent and all the other things that denote binding) the earthquake? C’mon let’s get on the stick.
St eye
dude chill out
GaryV,
In my casual glancing of the discourse between you and IC, I must say that I was a bit surprised that you did not mention Ephesians 2:1-10 in your explanation. I am in total agreement with the other passages of scripture you stated, and I’m sure you will eventually get around to it, but Ephesians 2 is in my estimation one of the most beautiful pictures of regeneration in scripture. Hard to imagine being any worse than dead (Milford, that is—smile Mel.)
Just my two cents bro…Enjoying the dialogue between you two from afar, so right now I’m going back into my cave…Perhaps I’ll resurface after the AFC/NFC Championship Games…Or better yet, after I finish reading my copy of “Money Thou Art Loosed”…
http://www.amazon.com/Money-Thou-Loosed-Leroy-Thompson/dp/0963258443
I’ve got to finish that one before I can be ready for the classic “I’ll Never Be Broke Another Day in My Life” masterpiece…Looks like I’ve got plenty of naming and claiming to do this weekend…(Oh brother…)
Soli Deo Gloria,
R4C
DARN YOU R4C!!! You just destroyed my coup de grace!! You save your best stuff for rebuttal in debate, sir. You do not show your entire hand at the outset.
Perhaps you’d like to write my son and tell him Santa isn’t real now?? LOL!!
GaryV,
Santa isn’t real?…OMG, if this is true, I have to reevaluate my whole life structure…What about the Easter Bunny, Tooth Fairy and Bigfoot?…Okay, okay, I can deal with all of that, but if you tell me Jesus was not 900 feet tall, I don’t think I could bear that…
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleid=20080326_222_67873
By the way, if Oral said he was 900 feet tall and Copeland said he was about 6 foot 2, then do I divide the two, making him roughly—150 feet? You gotta get back to me soon, because I haven’t found the answer to this question in my word of faith handbook yet…
Dazed and confused,
R4C
I got a slight cramp in my back. Does that mean her binding missed you and hit me instead?
Perhaps the binding was split among all who disagree with her and so we all have to endure a little back pain
?
In a way, all those POWERLESS clichés, such as “binding Satan”, are nothing more than tradition. Tradition rooted in voodoo, but tradition. Not really Christianity, but a set of traditions, that include babbling, binding and so on.
One day, Lord willing, more will give up traditions and seek to follow the Lord in truth.
Maybe she’s got power like emperor Palpatine? You know she shoots lighting bolts from her hands and it hits multiple targets. I’m just saying….it could happen…at least according to her…
I did a web search on a portion of the quasi-voodoo prayer that was made against me. I searched on the portion that says “WE ARE DESTROYING YOUR VERY WORKS: THE SPIRITS OF HATE, BITTERNESS AND MURDER”
As you can see, this is a canned prayer that is being repeated.
This web page appears to be the source and recommends reciting the “prayer” (quasi-voodoo chant) daily.
It is supposed to be an Anti-Witchcraft prayer.
I always wonder, how come words like those used in Acts 16:18 are not sufficient, if someone really has a demon that needs to be removed? Some seem to confuse our having to pray, with making up chants of voluminous words to repeat, which contradicts Matthew 6:7.
Paul’s prayer was a command in the Name of Jesus Christ, that was few in words, yet fully effective. Paul knew how to remain in right standing with God and pray without ceasing. So when a real evil spirit showed up, he didn’t have to say much.
If there’s a real evil spirit and it does not go after a short prayer, standing there reciting a longer one won’t do a bit of good!
If a real evil spirit won’t go away, it’s because:
A) God does not desire it to go.
or
B) The person who prayed is not in right standing with God to pray such a thing and the evil spirit has no clue who they are.
Good idea about a search on the Internet-it appears someone else pulled something from another’s site and used it for themselves much like the the sermons for sale post Melvin noted
This whole “binding and loosing” mis-exegesis comes from the same school of (no) thought that we are “little gods” that can “speak those things that be not as though they were”.
If you really want to “bind up” Satan, then feed him bananas and cheese…that’ll stuff him up pretty good. I know, it’s a juvenile response - but it’s fitting for such a juvenile assertion in the first place.