The pimps will tell you you have to have faith, the God kind of faith, to get what you want. If you’re poor, it’s because you’re not exercising the God kind of faith. If you’re sick, it’s because you aren’t exercising the God kind of faith. And of course if you don’t have the job you want, the car you want, the house you want or the spouse you want, it’s because you aren’t exercising the God kind of faith.
By now I’m sure you know this kind of faith isn’t faith at all. It’s a serious twisting of Scripture.
For those of you who are in a Word of Faith church, or any church with a pimp for a pastor, let me assure you there is a way to get out of that particular quagmire (definition #2). And yes, it does require faith. But it requires faith in the creator of the universe and His good intention for your life (assuming of course that you are a Christian and not simply a church goer).
About a week ago, I got an e-mail from a fellow I’m going to call Charlie. That’s not his real name. It seems that not only was he in a church run by a pulpit-pimp (though I suspect a sincere one); he was the pulpit-pimp. But rather than telling you what happened, I’ll let him speak for himself. Here is the content of his e-mail.
Melvin,
I just want to say thank you for your ministry of exposing the pulpit pimps who are deceiving so many. I, at one time, was a pulpit pimp because I was a Word of Faith preacher.
In the 80’s I met a man who was part of Charles and Frances Hunter’s ministry who took me under his wing and became my mentor. I sincerely believed in the prosperity message. I listened to all of the Copeland, Hagin, Sevell tapes, went to their meetings and then turned around and regurgitated all of it in my meetings.
In the late 80’s I attended Lee University and felt lucky to be able to go to Norvel Hayes’ meetings since he was in the same town. But I attended a systematic theology class, at the university, where the professor was thoroughly opposed to the prosperity message. As a result the heresy’s hold on me began to crack.
Though I would be upset by what he said, I began slowly to think critically about the theology I had embraced.
To make a long story short, I finally completely disavowed the word of faith message in the mid-90s while I was in seminary, and to this day I do everything I can to expose the heresy when the opportunity arises.
In 2000, I was pastoring a small country church. One of the pimps came to town and members of the congregation went to a revival with the pimp.
The evangelist even called me a wolf in sheep’s clothing because I went to one of his meetings and he was calling out everyone around me except me. And the reason, I believe he did, was because he knew that I knew. He knew that I saw right through him.
But unfortunately the damage had been done and I spent the better part of the next year standing against those in my church who would have preferred me to leave so they could teach that heresy without impunity. But my wife and I stood strong, while some people left. Fortunately, the church was preserved. I told them that even if meant burning on a stake I would defend the true historic Christian orthodox foundation that the Church has been founded on for centuries.
I know how I was deceived and my heart hurts for the people, or the sheeple, as you say. But I am indignant and angry at the pulpit pimps.
Fortunately, I have had the opportunity in my small circle of influence to defend the faith and will continue to do so.
By the way it was interesting to hear you mention L’enfant Plaza, because I work at the FAA in DC and ride the Metro every day.
Thanks,
Charlie
Again, if you are attending a church that preaches ANY elements of the WoF garbage, get out. Yes, it may be painful and scary at first. But I guarantee you if you exercise faith IN God and His faithfulness to us, you will not regret it.
Get out before you conscience is seared to the point you wouldn’t know the truth if it bit you on the butt.
Wow!
I don’t know what to say. When you juxtapose this post with the one with Oral Roberts you see an amazing dichotomy present itself.
On one hand you have Oral Roberts who preached the Prosperity Gospel like no other and he was revered, wealthy, and was lauded by millions.
On the other hand you have a simple small town Pastor clinging to the old truths and having a portion of his congregation want to leave for the poison of the Pulpit Pimps.
With that being said, when we compare Oral Roberts and Pastor Charlie to that of the ministry of Christ it should become apparent to everyone that Pastor Charlie’s message is the true message.
Keep up the good work Pastor!
I have a question for youand for anyone else really. Why should we always just leave? Why not stay and stand for the truth even if it means an assembly will separate? What if the problems within the Body are growing because no one is willing to bear their cross and stand for our Lord and the truth, regardless of the consequences?
(MN: Sure, you can stay. But you shouldn’t give any money to the heretic since the Bible says we shouldn’t help them spread their message [2 John 10], and you shouldn’t have anything to do with the person teaching or promoting such a doctrine [Romans 16:17 - as in turn away from them], and you should recognize that a little (or lot) of leaven leavens the whole loaf [Gal 5:9].
But I would suggest it would be more in keeping with Scripture to leave, find an orthodox place and, if you friends will still talk to you, urge them, from Scripture, to leave as well. If the leaders of the church are not standing for the truth, what makes you think those who see you staying will stand for the truth? And what makes you think the leadership won’t make sure you leave ANYWAY?
But more than that, as I said at the end of the posting, if you stay, you conscience will eventually be seared and you will not know the truth should it lick you in the face.
Was lot told to hang around S and G? Or was he told to get the heck out of Dodge. )
I guess my problem is that there are a great many people who are oblivious in the assemblies. I like to think that if they actually were allowed to hear the truth, then they might stand against corruption or leave themselves. Of course there are always going to be those who blindly follow the titled leader. But there are genuine truth seekers who appreciate hearing opposing views. It seems cowardly and unlike our Lord to simply leave before giving everyone and opportunity to hear the truth first.
(MN: And you can’t tell them [one-on-one which takes courage in and of itself] once you leave? The truth seekers [by this I assume you mean the genuinely saved] will listen. The rest will call you mean and divisive. Or do you only associate with these people at the church building?
I’ll stay with the original option - leave. )
I attended the houston hustler church in south houston for 7 years. After giving a substantial amount during that time, my wife and I realized we could have used these funds to get out of debt completely. It was a costly lesson and we were embarrassed to be so gullible.
dpa
“And you can’t tell them [one-on-one which takes courage in and of itself] once you leave?”
From my experience it seems that as soon as one goes to the leadership about any kind of disagreement or confusion, word quickly spreads and soon it just turns into a forced departure without ever having a chance to explain one’s self or ask questions. Like I said, it just seems cowardly to always and simply leave without addressing an issue openly. (MN: But if you are being forced to leave, how are you being cowardly? ) Especially if the issue in question is one affecting many people. Please don’t misunderstand, I agree with you to a degree. Most people should simply leave because they aren’t equipped to handle the consequences or to stand toe to to toe in a debate type confrontation. But not all.
(MN: You’re being unclear. Are you saying you should stay there to continue talking to/arguing with the leadership? Sure. Give that a shot. When John K. Jenkins, the pastor of First Baptist Church of Glenarden on the Kettering, started teaching that Jesus’ death on the cross wasn’t enough to pay for our sins and that He had to suffer in hell, I confronted him. And for some three months he gave some really pitiful arguments to defend the different gospel he was teaching. He didn’t change. In fact, more of his leadership began teaching the same thing. In fact, when I asked “How could Jesus have been in hell when he told one of the thieves he would be with Him that very day in paradise.” John’s answer showed the depth of his willing blindness. He said “Well, it depends on what your definition of paradise is.” That was when I decided I needed to go. But rather than disappearing quietly into the night, I distributed a flyer telling the class I had been teaching why I was leaving. John called a couple of days later and nearly blew a gasket saying that even though nothing I had said in the flyer was wrong I shouldn’t have done it because it confused and hurt people. Once you determine the pimp doesn’t want to know the truth, you split - unless you can see some way around the verses I shared with you earlier.
On the other hand, if you are saying you should stay for the congregation, it doesn’t appear that you have much to do with them. And again, can’t you talk to them AFTER you leave? )
“Or do you only associate with these people at the church building?”
That’s funny because I find that I associate/fellowship with people more so outside of a church building than inside of it. Inside is generally more superficial and there’s very little real relationship building or mutual edification. It’s more spectator in nature.
@William Floyd,
There is a great vid on YouTube where a guy is standing outside of Pastor (so-called) Joel Willow Boy Osteen’s Church demanding that people repent and turn to the truth. He implored them to reject the false teachings of Joel.
Mostly everyone just walked right on by with the exception of a few screaming back at the poor guy.
Of course, if you merely leave and keep silent you will not feel persecution. However, if you take the next step and openly renounce them, you can expect a backlash from the sheeple. This is what Mel gets all too often on his site.
So to answer your question I would suggest everyone should leave a congregation if error is being taught. In fact, I would even go as far as saying one should take the next step and do like the guy in the YouTube video. Well, maybe not exactly like that but you know what I mean.
By the way where have all the sheeple gone lately? I like their long diatribe filled pabulum.
The backlash I get is relatively innocuous. This guy is right there among the rabid sheeple. Have you every been danced on by the hooves of a hundred sheeple?
@ Mel,
Thanks for finding the vid.
Kyle
How difficult it must have been to be called to be one of His prophets and having to be sent to people who didn’t want to listen to what He had to say….
(MN: When you get there, ask Jeremiah what it was like. )
Why won’t Copeland let the government know the kind of money that he’s raking in under a non exempt ministry? If he didn’t have anything to hide, why is he hiding his worth for inquiring minds of the government? Copeland is about as wealthy as the Crouches, say it with me, Money cometh…. I just love it. We still sing, I’m a poor poor rich man. Silver and Gold have we none, but such as we have in the name of Jesus Christ.
Thats the thing Jimmy,Kenny does have something to hide! I must say as much as I detest his ministry,I have mixed feelings about the government (the Senate anyway) coming in and auditing Kenny. The government never knows when to quit. Indeed they could audit every ministry good and bad.
This man I believe was obedient. He did exactly what he was suppose to do. And yes someone will be changed, someone will take heed. This was not in vain. It is not about him and shame or whatever ( because people seem to be ignoring him and screaming at him) it is all about Jesus and pointing people to him. We must repent people.
Kindheart
Great post Melvin! As a former WoFer I can only urge people to leave that heretical system. Sure you can stay and try to change things. 99% of the time it won’t work. The teachings are so ingrained it makes it nearly impossible to change the thinking of these sheeple. I made some criticisms on a social network of Jesse DuPlantis. Some of the WoF people from my former church weighed in! One said, “I’d better be careful who I cast stones of accusations at.” “Just because he (Jesse) has received revelation that I haven’t doesn’t make him wrong.” How about that folks? The same ‘ol crap,guys like DuPlantis are privy to stuff we “low wattage” Christians aren’t privy to. Sheeesh!!! Get out as fast as possible!
I think right now the grandfather (godfather) of the faith movement is without doubt, Kenneth Copeland. Producing the likes of Creflo Dollar, Jerry Savelle, Jesse Duplantis and so many others that I couldn’t begin to name them all, he is the “gift that keeps on giving”. Kind of like herpes or some other STD in a spiritual sense.
But the true earthly source of all this nonsense is much bigger than Copeland. Paul and Jan Crouch have built a literal empire that continues to be the cornerstone of all this heresy. It’s called TBN, the Trinity Broadcasting Network. Unfortunately, they have built up reserves in excess of $200,000,000 cash to ensure they can keep this heresy mill running for many years to come.
What is needed is a true awakening along the same lines that finally broke up Herbert W. Armstrong’s cult years ago. After the leader died, it was only a few years before the light was “allowed” to shine on the successors eyes and hearts. They obeyed God (at great personal costs I might add) and scrapped the heresy in returning to orthodox Christianity. Let’s pray that God will so move again in the case of TBN.
Well Darrell,the Crouch’s do indeed have a huge empire. Don’t sell Copeland short he has already declared himself to be a billionaire! The “WoF” is more sophisticated than Armstrong’s org. The “WoF” “sound” much more orthodox than Herbie did. Also the “WoF” plays into people’s base instincts. After all who doesn’t want to be healthy and wealthy all their lives? WoF doctrine also feeds the already inflated egos of people. When you consider what kind of “inherent” power that WoF says human beings possess it makes it a very attractive system. The WoF folks have a very perverted view of God’s Sovereignty. As well as their equally perverted view of faith. I’d dare say if the Crouch’s are richer than Copeland it’s only by a difference of chump change. Kenny has his tentacles in many countries. His empire is just as big however he keeps it a little more low profile than the Crouch’s. Remember the immortal title of one of Ken Hagin Sr.’s books,”How To Write Your Own Ticket With God.” Always remember that man is the center of the universe in WoF doctrine! God is demoted to their little cosmic bellhop!
I think the difference between the Crouches and Copeland re: wealth is that Copeland “confesses” that he is a billionaire while Paul and Jan’s empire is worth well over 2 billion dollars already. That’s real money, real estate and assets-not confessed wealth. I understand a well-known television mogul offered Paul about $2,000,000,000 for the entire network more than a decade ago and it’s grown much larger since then. They have added over a 1000 stations since then. All this wealth is 100% paid for by TBN partners. The total empire is virtually debt-free!! Of course there are no shareholders–Paul and Jan and family OWN it all!!
But if one of their sons took over TBN at Paul’s death and had a miraculous change of heart toward the true gospel, then all those “faith, prosperity” heretics would have to go elsewhere to pedddle their false gospel. That would cost them much more to pay for secular airtime and then we’ll see how great that gospel works for them. Or maybe the IRS will strike down their exempt status and make them pay taxes on all that money. ( Of course they will just spin it as a “great demonic attack” and ask for more money from the faithful to fight the devil off).
Mel,
My wife and I moved to Baltimore four years ago and were looking for a church home. We found one and have been going ever since. We noticed that he did not preach or even mention tithing during the offering portion of the service. He’s been pastoring for over 40 years and now all of a sudden, tithing is being mentioned every Sunday. At first, it was just ‘mentioned’ to the point where it’s been preached that NOT tithing is a violation of God’s Word.
Just this last Sunday (just before offering) he reminded the congregation of being obedient to the tithe. He then had the nerve to reference indulgence and how the tithe is similar and important to the Body of Christ. At that point, I was feed up.
Here’s a man who has been preaching for over 40 years, never preached on tithing, but now all of a sudden it’s a requirement according to God’s Word. I wondered what brought this ‘new revelation’.
Well Mel, I read a post you posted on your site a few weeks ago about a church in Prince George’s county MD called First Baptist Church of Highland Park. Well the pastor of that church is my pastor’s son-in-law and seeing that he (Rev. Davis) is friends of John K. Jenkins, I knew he had to be influenced by these two. Now, that both of these pastors have their ‘memorials and mausoleums’ it made sense why my pastor is preaching tithing because he too wants to build another ‘edifice’ to ‘grow the Kingdom of God.’
It’s sad to have a man be influenced by those mentioned above just to run with the ‘big dogs’. Now he preaches about building nursing homes, schools and paying 1,000’s of dollars to air is sermons on TV. Just four years ago, these worthless topics weren’t even mentioned. To me, this is a perfect example to what the Apostle Paul mentioned that some would fall from the faith.
(MN: It’s good you spotted the shift. And I’m glad I could provide even a little information for you to use. )
During that year in 2000 the group who were trying to take over the church wouldn’t listen to the truth in Scripture because they were convinced that their beliefs were the truth. They rabidly held on to it and accused me of quenching the Spirit. But I was able to expose the fallacies of their WOF beliefs and better equip the others in the church.
Many WOF’ers are convinced that their truth is the right truth and no matter what you tell them they will disagree. As a result, I have found that I have been able to accomplish more by ministering to those outside of the movement then in.
Personally, I would much rather go to a church where I can listen to the Word of God being taught correctly than have endure listening to teachings that are rank heresy.
Yep Charlie I’ll bet they called you a heresy hunter as well? It’s because of people like you and I that “stifle” revival and prevent God from doing what He wants to do. We’re accused of being trouble makers,fault finders,etc. To them we have the same “spirit” who killed Christ. We’re “touching” God’s anointed. On an on it goes. It never occurs to these clowns that they might in the wrong.
I almost forgot to make this comment. A few weeks ago well known Tulsa WoF pastor Billy Joe Daugherty died of cancer at the age of 57. Don’t get me wrong I think it’s sad and tragic that he died at such a relatively young age. What’s sad is Daugherty “confessed” to his congregation for many years that sickness couldn’t touch him. Something to that effect anyway. “Daddy” Hagin as well as other WoF teachers have said forever that believers should live to 120 years of age. Now Hagin did much better than Billy Joe but still fell way short. They all go to the same doctors and hospitals you and I would when they get sick. This may sound cruel and insensitive (although that doesn’t stop the WoF teachers from castigating “Joe Christian” for their lack of faith!) but it seems to me that Billy Joe after all those years of confessing divine health should’ve gotten to the point where he wouldn’t have needed any medical treatment. That’s their whole selling point, that believers should so grow in their faith that they acheive divine health/life. I’m afraid Billy Joe Daugherty is another sad victim of WoF theology or is it fantasy?
I thank the Lord that on New Year’s Eve I did not find myself in some hyped up church service with a pimp telling me that I’m gonna win in 2010 and all I need to do to get my victory is to sow my first pay check as a first fruit offering. It’s a shame how many people are going to be duped this month into giving. Countless people honestly believe that they will be cursed if they don’t give their first pay check to their “apostle.”
Like Charlie, I’m glad I came out, but I’m rather heart broken because so many people that I know and love are still being deceived.
(MN: Keep talking to the ones you left behind. Explain to them, point them to Scripture, pray for them, kidnap their children and hold them hostage until they listen. But most of all, continue to grow in Christ and in the knowledge of the Word so you can be available if they ever seek you out. )
Yes Dareen,January was always “this is gonna be the best year yet” month in my former WoF church. After a while one thinks, hey wasn’t last year supposed to be the best year? and the year before that and the year before that! I love these WoF pastors who parrot each other telling their sheeple,”God has a wonderful plan for your life i.e. health and wealth, what else? Just once I’d like someone to ask these bozos about the “wonderful” plan God had for Paul,Peter,Stephen,Polycarp,Latimer,Becket,etc. FYI all of these men were martyred.
After experiencing ‘pulpit pimps’ EVERY time I went to a church- I am to the point that either a) God doesnt exist, or b) God does- but he’s one nasty SOB. To let these people destroy lives, and hurt people and everything else- AND let them prosper??? It’s sickening.
(MN: I can understand your position. But it is the standard position taken by someone who really has no understanding of just who God is.
Thank you Pulpit Pimps. )
Where are you. I would love to see if I can get you into a church that isn’t run by a pimp.
It appears that you have been very badly damaged by them and need some “washing with the water of the Word.”