I finally figured out what my general attitude is toward the lay men (those who aren’t pastor, assistant pastor, ministers or other position of responsibility) at First Baptist Church of Glenarden on the Kettering. It’s not anger and it’s not frustration.
It’s pity.
My wife thought last Sunday was communion Sunday. That means the evening service would be held in the monument out on the Kettering just off Maryland Route 193. Since she doesn’t drive all that well at night, I offered to take her. About half way there, we both realized it wasn’t communion Sunday, an easy conclusion since it was November 1st. Instead of returning home, we decided to go on over to the old building (at 3600 Brightseat Road) since we were already out.
That’s when I met one of my old students, a guy who has been a part of FBCGotK for at least the last 15 years. Let’s call him Fred since I don’t really want to throw his name out here and he’s not a public figure of any kind. He’s just one of the blokes trapped at FBCGotK.
Months earlier, I had asked Fred if he had any trouble at all with John K. Jenkins bringing in men who deny the essentials of the faith – you know, things like a Trinitarian God versus a Oneness approach to God, a la Noel “Christobabble” Jones and Charles Ellis. Unfortunately, Fred didn’t know what Oneness was. Once I explained it to him, he agreed to go and check on Jones and see if what I said about Jones is true.
He surprised me pleasantly and did the research he said he would do. But the response he gave on November first gave me some major insight into how John K. Jenkins can do and say the things he does and says.
After verifying what I said about Oneness men coming into the church, Fred went on to say that he didn’t have a problem with these men speaking to the congregation from the pulpit – as long as they don’t preach any kind of Oneness doctrine.
My internal theological attack dog’s chain almost slipped from my hand when Fred said this. But I controlled it and instead asked if he would have problems with a Jehovah’s Witness coming to preach to the congregation. He said he would not as long as the JW didn’t preach the doctrines the church disagreed with.
I then asked if he would have a problem if Louis “Calypso Louie” Farrakhan came to preach to the congregation. Fred said he would have to think about it. I told him I would give him a follow up call to discuss it.
Apparently it doesn’t matter what a person believes. It only matters what they preach. It doesn’t matter that Scripture says to stay away from these men and women and to have nothing to do with them. Apparently it doesn’t matter if the person preaching is even saved, as long as they preach the right thing.
John K. Jenkins has apparently spent the last ten to 15 years making sure the men of the church don’t grow spiritually. The ones who have remained there are at precisely the same level of Biblical understanding as they were when I left. To them discipleship consists of attending a class on Saturday mornings, facilitated by men who think Christian growth is measured by the number of activities you participate in around the church building. The idea of gaining a deeper understanding of Scripture and to allow those same Scriptures to begin to transform your mind doesn’t even occur to these men. The thought of standing on doctrine, any doctrine, to filter out the chaff is apparently alien to them. And when you consider the organization’s leadership have pledged to support John K. Jenkins’ vision, all would appear to be hopeless.
The men of FBCGotK, the ones who are on the religious treadmill, are not going to grow in Christ. As long as they remain in the circumstances they are in, they are not going to see anything past that which John K. Jenkins permits them to see.
The church’s motto is “Developing, Dynamic Disciples through Discipleship, Discipline and Duplication.” (sic) I was there when the church developed the catchy sounding motto. And I was the one who immediately questioned it when the catchy motto was being rolled out.
My objection was that it is at best a redundant statement. And at a minimum, the statement appears to indicate the creators have no real understanding of discipleship. If I am going to disciple someone, am I not going to bring discipline into their lives? And isn’t duplicating in another that which I have in my life a part of making a disciple?
John K. Jenkins is, at best, playing at church. And the men following him? They are religious, never coming to understand Christianity in terms of anything other than “shalt nots”. If you keep your willie in your pants, you must be a Christian. If you don’t steal, you must be a Christian. If you don’t do this or that, then you must be a Christian. Having a working knowledge and understanding of the Bible isn’t really something they consider. As one guy put it: “You’re getting too detailed.”
To them, it doesn’t seem to be about the glory of God. They seem more concerned about the opinions of men and the glory of their buildings since it’s the building that indicates whether or not God is blessing them. Ask the Oneness perp T. Dexter Jakes. He’ll tell you. According to him, the buildings we build now are a testimony to our faith. Or you can ask the Mormons, they have a bunch of really neat buildings, one of them right here near Washington DC.
The men at FBCGotK are treading water, going nowhere. They have an opportunity to impact their world for Christ and instead are sitting in a building playing at church. They have an opportunity to grow in Christ and instead are singing in the choir and “getting’ their praayze on.” The deacons are men who have no doctrinal foundation.
Their main qualification appears to be the ability to recite the books of the Bible, in order, and to recite Bible verses that refer to deacons, elders, and pastors. Check the boxes, stay busy and do your homework and you too can be a deacon (as long as you don’t question leadership and display the ability or willingness to actually use Scripture to question.
By the way, my brother bought me an iPod Touch a couple of weeks ago. I took it with me to occupy myself while John K. Jenkins preached. The iPod is wi-fi capable – that is, I can access a nearby open wireless network and get onto the internet using my iPod Touch. I used it to do a little research on the F-100 Super Sabre, a follow on to the F-86 Sabre. I snagged a couple of images. And I did some other Google searches.
I thought it would be pretty neat to do some historic real-time blogging from within the belly of the beast. You can imagine my surprise when I discovered the church IT administrator has blocked Pulpit-pimps.org’s specific IP address. That would explain why all the visits I was getting from FBCGotK fell so precipitously. FBCGotK slammed the door to my site shut. I guess maybe they are paying a little more attention to me than they might want to admit.
Hello, Melvin:
The F-100 used to be my favorite jet aircraft, when I was building models as a kid. Now, I’m going with the A-10. Perhaps a nice loiter above FBCGotK with the 30mm Gatling Gun howling?
MONEY COMING Pastor Jenkins! Your best life now!
Stay well, brother.
Peter.
(MN: For loitering and sheer firepower delivered with pinpoint accuracy - AC-130 Spectre. Turns around a point while it unloads round after round of ordinances from two Vulcans, a 105 mm cannon and two 40 Borfors cannon.
It could destroy the building on the Kettering as thoroughly as the First Baptist organization has destroyed men’s ability to apprehend what it means to actually live for God. And it can do it with no collateral damage and absolutely no loss of life. The school across the street would remain untouched. )
Dickkopf, Melvin, sorry to burst your bubbles…but they are all just airplanes without AMMO!!! No matter how loud they scream, fast they turn they are just for show.
Just like FBCGotK. It may be loud and showy, but without Christ - it is nothing more than a loud, showy building.
AMMO 4life baby, IYAAYAS!!!!
Melvin:
Cool video. We had “Puff” in ‘Nam: the C-47.
Anyway, how do we make sure the building is deserted? You know: when you call in the strike.
Peter.
(MN: Easy. Announce that there will be an in depth Bible study on “Suffering for Christ.” I guarantee you no one will come within a mile of the place - including John K. Jenkins. )
Melvin,
I think they call it ‘church lite’…that is all people seem to want these days.
What the heck is the point of going to church if you are not there for studying the Word, helping your brothers and trying to improve your personal walk with God? Sometimes I wonder how many people in this world are searching for the true Word and don’t know when they are getting just the ‘milk’.
Now I am not putting myself above anyone else, in fact, if anything, I could be at the very bottom, but I do wonder why so MANY are blind and so few see.
I have made a personal decision to NOT go to any church right now. I don’t know if there is any truth in any of them anymore. After watching all the pimps ( and trust me, there are LOTS more coming after them ) on TBN’s latest Fleece-o-Thon, I was overwhelmed by the fact that this ‘False’ Gospel they shove down your throat is being spread around the world….does this fact bother anyone else as much as me?
(MN: Where are you? We, the participants of P-P.org are more than happpy to help you find someplace. The Body is intended to operate with all the parts working together [take a look at 1 Cor 12]. While I understand how frustrating it can be, I strongly encourage you to pray for guidance and trust God to provide it. He does not want you to go it alone. Virtually nothing good will come of that. )
Can you imagine the first contact that say a Muslim might get about being a Christian could come from Steve Munsey or his ilk? The fact that so very few other religious leaders ever say a word about this is troubling to me. For better or worse I will keep on my own study of the Bible, share with others and to learn what I need help with in making my spirit grow as much as possible while I am here on this earth….once again Melvin, thanks for doing what needs to be done in exposing these wolves.
i would take you up on that offer! i am in the ann arbor/detroit area and am in dire need of a truthful bible teaching church! anyone have any leads?!?! i am so thankful for any help!
(MN: Try here for starters. 9Marks. )
RealDeal, Another thing that you want to consider is Hebrews 10:25 that says not to forsake the assembling of ourselves together. I have been where you are, and trust me, after a while, you start to feel empty on the inside when you have not fellowshipped with the brethren and heard the Word come across the pulpit. Take Melvin’s advice and seek the Lord concerning this issue. Being part of the body is not always easy, but the bottom line is that you are PART of the BODY.
I will pray for you.
Sounds like the blind are sure enough leading the blind. Pity the man that will not read the Word of God for himself. What if his preachers wrong? I bet these pitiful men say “amen” when the preachers tells them they are going to hell. How would they know any different, unless they read God’s word for themselves?
My cable system did a re-org a few months ago and removed all the “Christian” channels from the basic lineup. I used to watch the pimp-o-thons just for comic relief. I thought I would miss it, but I don’t. Now I watch the History Channel. If I want to see the pimps, I’ll have to get digital cable.
Melvin….I am in the central Calif. foothills about 10 miles from Jackson Ca. I have been to a few churches up here but I am afraid I just can’t listen to anyone else tell me their version of the bible when I think in my heart I should find my own understanding. I do my share, in a small way, of what I would think Jesus would want me to do in helping my fellow brothers and sisters out and giving of my time and efforts.
Thank you for reminding me of 1 Cor 12 that makes me stop and think. I will consider maybe trying another church but I need to get my spirit to a place that no one else but me( with God’s help ) can take it and I feel that it is a very, very personal journey and one that just myself and the Lord can walk when it all comes down to the end.
(MN: Realdeal, while I understand your sentiment, and I don’t want to be a hard nose, none of what you just said is particularly biblical. Jesus created The Church and we function in The Church. Alone you are almost guaranteed to wander off the deep end. )
Mel you said- “”Fred went on to say that he didn’t have a problem with these men speaking to the congregation from the pulpit – as long as they don’t preach any kind of Oneness doctrine.”"”
The scripture fits so well- “A little leaven, leavens the whole lump”. How compromising some people are when it comes to things of the church. Its akin to a Christian man saying “I am going to the strip club, but I am not going to drink any alcohol.” Eschew one sin for another. It doesn’t make any logical sense. Even Spock could see that. Yet that is exactly the case when people become comfortable “dissecting” the holiness of God in order to allow some sin to enter in because they cannot do without it. Then after awhile, all the senses are dulled and anything gets in and God is robbed of His Glory and holiness.
(MN: There are even the portions of scripture that say we are not to have anything to do with those blokes. We could start with Galatians, Romans and a couple of other places. Giving one of these pimps several thousand dollars for coming to speak sure does seem like you’re helping them out. )
“The church’s motto is “Developing, Dynamic Disciples through Discipleship, Discipline and Duplication.” (sic) I was there when the church developed the catchy sounding motto. And I was the one who immediately questioned it when the catchy motto was being rolled out.”
Unfortunately people are into catchy, form and no substance. Here in Trinidad & Tobago there was an advertisement for the soft drink called Sprite and the catchphrase was image is nothing, thirst is everything. Unfortunately the reverse is true for most things we see now where image is everything and thirst is nothing, it brings to mind 2Ti 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
“The Antiquity of a practice in no way justifies its continuance.”
Understood and thank you Melvin.
I went to a wedding at a friend’s church a few months ago. Above the pulpit was a catchy phrase and a Bible verse. While I was waiting for the wedding to start, I looked the verse up. I didn’t see any relationship between the catchy phrase and the Bible verse. I wish I had written it down.
Melvin how is trinitarianism not poly theism?
(MN: Polytheism is the worship of multiple gods; gods who are completely separate from each other in their existence . Zeus is a god, Hera is a god and Mercury is a god. Vishnu, Rama, and Shiva are gods. Each has a separate existence. They are separate persons AND separate entities. One exists completely apart from the others and operates independently of the others. They are separate entitites and separate persons. There is a “package” that goes by the name Shiva, another that goes by the name Rama, and a third that goes by the name Vishnu. Each exists separate from the others.
Trinitarianis says the following:
Three subsistences of one substance, not three separate beings [however powerful those beings might be]
Each of them fully God, not each fully A god.
Each is without beginning and without end, one God who cannot be divided in nature and being.
Though not to be divided in nature and being, they are distinguished from each other and are in relation with each other.
This trinitarian nature is the foundation of our communion with God.
I suspect at this point you may say something like “But you’re saying there are three gods!”
No, I’m not saying there are three gods. And an insistence that I am doesn’t make it so. There is one God of one substance. Not three gods. Each person is fully God and each in in relationship with the others. Now, if you want to insist I am saying there are three gods, you are certainly free to say that. But don’t expect me to keep going around in that particular circle with you. And don’t say no one has ever explained the difference between Trinitarianism and polytheism. You may reject the explanation (without cause, I might add) but the explanation has been proffered.
If anyone else out there wants to attempt to provide analogies, more detailed explanations or anything else, knock yourselves out. But count me out on that particular merry-go-round. It’s my job to present you with an accurate portrayal of the doctrine, not convince you of its validity. )
The Trinity can be explained by my small, finite brain, as like an egg. You cannot have an egg with out the three components (shell, white, and yolk) and yet, none of the three component by themselves make up an egg. All three make up the one.
Polytheism is like Jonagold, Winesap, and Braeburn - they’re all apples but singular
That’s my best shot.
Your stories remind me of my own brain-dead existence on the plantation, Mel. I chuckle a bit, then I remember those I left behind a few years ago - and how I tried to walk them through the Word to demonstrate just how far off base the pimp is - then I just get tremendously sad. Seriously sad. I know, my sharp tongue and snappy comebacks hide my true mourning for the men that still follow lock-step behind deceivers and hirelings (and I praise God through Christ that He rescued me from such madness).
Even when I was still on the stroll for my pimp (as a leader)(MN: On the stroll! ROTFLMBO!! I ’bout spewed my coffee when that image popped up. But that’s exactly what we did. Bring in more folks so he can pimp them too. Fortunately, I was too embarrassed by the bloke most of the time I was there. I only brought in a couple for the slaughter. Both women. One of them escaped. ), emotional women (no disrespect) and emotional men were drawn to the showman like moths to a flame. The more “skeptical” men stayed back to study the man and the method before swallowing the Kool-Aid, often fleeing shortly thereafter. I pray that God would continue to lift the veils of the deceived as He wills, and your story just reminds me of our fervent call to prayer for those left behind.
(MN: Exactly. I feel such an intense sadness as I watch the men walking about, doing religious things, and getting absolutely nowhere. Sometimes it comes across exactly like a cunning man taking advantage of a particularly foolish woman and using her foolishness to keep her bound to him.
You know the pimp is a con, but the victim just can’t seem to see they are being taken advantage of. Other than praying and being willing to give a response (in person) there is nothing anyone can do.
Reformation Alive Baptist Church is coming fully on line. New Members class starts Friday night. Some of the emphases? The importance of doctrine, Church history (the Church, not just the history of RABC) including the top ten list of heresies and why they are heresies, the idea and reasons for personal accountability and a lesson on the London Reformed Baptist Confession of 1689.
One of our objectives? To pimp proof as many people as possible. But more than that, to introduce people to the doctrines of grace and provide an environment where rigorous Bible study and application is encouraged. [Or is that the same as pimp proofing them?]
By the way, anybody interested - we start each Sunday at 11:30 - we’re on St. Barnabas Rd in Temple Hills, MD. (RABC)
Yes, that was a shameless plug. I admit it. Expect me to do it again in the future. )
I think you should change the word ‘man’ to ‘fool’ and read your whole post in ‘T’. It wouldn’t make your point more valid, but it would be cool.
(MN: Believe me, I thought about it. But I saw it as being a little too obvious. I go for the more subtle things. I did, however, consider posting an image of Mr. T at the top of the posting. )
A cool plane for you-not
Dee Dee and Dr. Shine
(MN: Yeah, I watch the program when it comes on. I like the music and the planes. After that, I get sick, turn it off and go throw up. )
Walksbyf8th,
Quote:
This analogy fails because each “part” of this egg would have to be “100% the egg” at the same time…as the persons of the trinity are.
There is no analogy that I know of that explains it.
Not coming down on you…just pointing it out…
Robert - stop with the ‘t’. Anyway, that’s the best I can come up with. It’s better than the vapor/liquid/steam analogy I’ve heard.
Walks….
hey! I have an offer you could refuse but why would you?
I’ve read the book by Dr. James White: “the forgotten trinity” many times…I’d like to give it to you…IF YOU’D LIKE TO READ IT.
Just email me….at
rpavich at gmail dot com
with your address and I’ll get it out to you….
when you’re done….pass it on!
Does FBCG have a private jet or plane like the Potters House does?
(MN: No. Why? Would that make him a pimp for sure if he did? )
Pretty much. I bet pretty soon they will get something like Air Force One to usher him, First Lady Trina, and the First Family around.