Now, Gene Robinson is another issue. My posts in threads on this man may not be well remembered, but Gene Robinson is the reason I left the American Episcopal Church. Anything he said, regardless of the Biblical and theologic soundness of the statement, is tainted by the speaker. And that is the shame of it. Anyone who hears the Word in the context of Gene Richardson cannot help but hear it through the prism of institutionalized homosexuality within a major Christian denomination. The message is not the issue, here. The instrument of that message is larger than his words. The instrument is the message. That is why I left the AEC. That is why I shudder when I see his name in such lofty public view. He brings attention to what is wrong with the church, instead of bringing attention to what is right with Christ.

(MN: We already covered this. My first thought was “Why would parents do that to a child?)

BTW, properly, it should be “better spelling skills”.

And,please do point out that which you think is misspelled. Perhaps that will gear you up for defending your inane misuse of Scripture??

Oh,and BTW, where did I post my conclusions about your referenced verse?? I did no such thing. I asked YOU to explain what you meant by referencing it.

Frankly,you seem particularly clueless. And that’s saying a lot considering some of the Borg we get at PP.org.

Perhaps you’re a bit afraid to expound upon the hermeneutic hooliganism it takes to defend same-sex unions??

Perhaps you involved in a same-sex union which you’re trying desperately to justify??

Perhaps you’re hoping to form a same-sex union with someone here??

Perhaps you’re going to explain to us how same-sex unions are fine, yet homosexual sex is not??

Or perchance, that same-sex unions are fine and so is homosexual sex??

We don’t know because you refuse to post anything intelligible. Naturally, that’s a sure-fire method for keeping from making any more of an equine posterior of yourself. But it’s hardly a convincing approach.

C’mon. Drum up some testosterone and post something of substance. We all a-tingle with anticipation. Really.

(MN: Only because all you did was present a verse with no explanation. You could think it means anything. None of us know what you think this means. And unless you tell us what you think this means, your reference is simply noice.

I generally give a person a time or to to present a verse without commentary. You have used up your quota. From this point on, you must tell us what you think a particular verse means. Other wise you are simply spouting words and providing no particular meaning. In other words, you are wasting eveybody’s time. )

I’m fairly confident in my reading comprehension skills, and yet after perusing your posts I still haven’t a clue what you’re trying to say.

Are you sure you shouldn’t be looking in the mirror when you quote Proverbs 18:2 ?

Kyle

Last time “at bat” for me in this discussion. Your question about same sex unions makes no sense. If the act for which you would have a union is condemned by scripture (and it is), then so is the union itself condemned. The Word of God is clear - all sexual immorality is sin. All sin will be judged by a Holy, Righteous, all-knowing God.

Next, whether I have read the bible in Hebrew or Greek is irrelevant. The Bible says what it means and is 100 percent inerrant from Genesis to Revelation. The only people for whom the Bible makes sense, however, are those people in which the Spirit of God resides. Scripture says …

these things God has revealed to us through the Spirit. For the Spirit searches everything, even the depths of God. For who knows a person’s thoughts except the spirit of that person, which is in him? So also no one comprehends the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. Now we have received not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might understand the things freely given us by God. And we impart this in words not taught by human wisdom but taught by the Spirit, interpreting spiritual truths to those who are spiritual The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned (1 Corinthians 2:10-14).

The fact that you are arguing and resisting what is being said indicates that most likely, your Salvation is in question. Before you get angry with my assessment or respond to another post, I encourage you to ask yourself why it is that you argue with the clear teaching of God’s Word. Then, I hope and pray that you will go make sure that yours is not a false conversion. If you do not consider yourself a Christian, then see if perhaps you have some soul-searching to do. In either case, you have a potential problem with eternal consequences. I encourage you to see to the matter immediately.

Just because the Bible does not speak of same sex unions doesn’t mean its not a sin. Abortion is not mentioned “specifically” (Procedural) but it is implied.

In Genesis when God created them man and woman it was for a purpose. God created our bodies with specific purposes. To think that God would bless two men sodomizing each other in a “marriage” relationship is ludicrous. Yet, you assume that just because it is not mentioned therefore it is OK. The same goes for women regarding their natural purpose. If you can’t see the natural use of a woman’s body regarding the birthing and sustaining a baby then you really can’t understand why God in Genesis created the opposite sexes.

Also, on the spiritual level we see the marriage supper of the Lamb (Christ -Dominant) and his Bride (Church - Submissive). Do you not see the parallels? So in either case of the physical and spiritual, same sex marriage does NOT pass muster.

ParsonP, if you can’t see the obvious that God would not sanction same sex marriage then you obviously can’t discern anything biblical.

Kyle

(MN: GCM = Gay Christian Movement. )

Kyle

(MN: You have to stretch a long way to come to that conclusion. Rome literally lit up Christians because they refused to obey the law of the land that said you have to worship Caesar. The law of the land is sometimes used by the ungodly to persecute the Christian. We could start with the Christian and the Roman Empire and move out from there.

I have an issue with Welfare. I have an issue with Medicare and Medicaid. I have an issue with a whole host of things the federal government does. But it doesn’t follow that I am going to go out and promote civil disobedience in reaction to them. )

I got nothin’ else to add. Just props.

(MN: And here we go folks! Another one who wants to argue that Leviticus doesn’t refer to homosexuality and the New Testament isn’t talking about it either. I’ll give you one more post to go down that road. But don’t expect a long discussion. We had this one about six months ago. It was pointless then and it will be pointless now. But you are free to make the turn.

Just don’t expect me to give anymore bandwidth to it. )

Walksbyfah, please cite for me biblically where God states that the sin of same sex unions is an abomination. Too, if God sets the penalty for sins, who then are we to set aside the penalty, moral, religious or ceremonial. Such as statement smacks of hypocrisy and renders biblical texts as having no efficacy for living.

(MN: For starters: Lev. 18:22-23; Lev. 20:13-16; Deut. 23:17 )

I see that Melvin answered the question regarding the setting aside of penalies. I would like to address a couple of your statements. The religious and ceremonial laws, such as eating kosher, were fulfilled in Jesus Christ, which is why, though Christians are prohibited from eating blood or animals which have been strangled (a href=”http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Acts%2015:19-20;&version=47;”>Acts 15:19-20, we can eat pork and lobster (Hallelujah!) which the Jews could not. The same principle applies to your clothing (i.e. your wearing a rayon/cotton blend does not defile you).

Two more points, if scripture does not mention race, why is race an issue?

The reason why I made comment about race is that Nita used the term ‘discriminate’. I was pointing out that she is applying that word improperly. It is the want of homosexual lobby to make their behavior an issue of Civil Rights. This is not to be confused with the politically correct redefinition of the term. It is is my contention that it is not an issue of Civil Rights (i.e. not hired because you’re Hispanic) but an issue of behavior. The issue of Civil Rights, historically and rightly, has never been an issue of rebellion. Rebellion is behavior. Behavior is judged by a Holy and Righteous God - skin color and gender are not. God judges sin. That you are a male or female is not a sin just as the race that He granted you is not. Man sins in word, thought, and/or deed. All sin is rebellion against God. Therefore, race and gender are not subject to judgment because they are not an act rebellion against God.

Secondly, should fornicators be held to the same standards/penalties as homosexuals or adulterers (ie stoning)? What is the sin of the homosexual that is different from the sin of heterosexuals biblically speaking that is?

Oh, but they are - again, read the Old and then the New Testaments. In Leviticus 20 we see where the death penalty is applied:

verses 10-13
* If a man commits adultery with the wife of his neighbor, both the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.
* If a man lies with his father’s wife, he has uncovered his father’s nakedness; both of them shall surely be put to death
* If a man lies with his daughter-in-law, both of them shall surely be put to death
* If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death

verses 15-16
* If a man lies with an animal, he shall surely be put to death, and you shall kill the animal.
* If a woman approaches any animal and lies with it, you shall kill the woman and the animal; they shall surely be put to death

Now the New Testament collaborates the Old Testament’s penalty in 1 Corinthians 6:9-10

Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.

Failure to “inherit the kingdom of God” results in death.

parsonp, I hope you will take the following to heart. I encourage you, in these Last Days, to resolve to read the entire Bible every year until Christ comes from this day forward.

P.S. Your study of the Bible is not included in this time. That’s separate.

NO ONE (homosexual, hetresexual, whatever) can come to Christ without first understanding their sin and the need to repent. When I speak aganist the sin of homosexuality or any other sin, I show more love for that person then those who sugar-coat the Gospel. Because then they can have a true conversion.

The next verse in James 2 says, “You foolish man, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless.” You can not have faith without a turning away from sin and changing your deeds. Do Christains sin - yes, but a lifestyle of habitual sin, is evidence that a person is not a Christain.

I would also encourage you to go to Revelation chapters 2 and 3 and learn what Christ had to say to the seven churches. Take notice to how Christ reacts to the those who allow sin and false teaching into the church.

I know people who are gay, I would not deny them food, shelter, a job, the true Gospel message etc. BUT I would not allow them to have regular input in my life. I would not allow them to practice a gay lifestlye and be my pastor. I would not allow them to teach my children about their lifestyle. I could go on. but you get the point.

God Bless.

20You foolish man, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless[
one (homosexuals included) can

(MN: For starters: Lev. 18:22-23; Lev. 20:13-16; Deut. 23:17 )

Two more points, if scripture does not mention race, why is race an issue? Secondly, should fornicators be held to the same standards/penalties as homosexuals or adulterers (ie stoning)? What is the sin of the homosexual that is different from the sin of heterosexuals—biblically speaking that is?

(MN: Who made race an issue?

Your question would more properly be asked as it pertains to Church discipline and rule. )

As to your answered prayer question, I’ll post Pastor John MacArthur’s response:

Question
Does God answer the prayers of unbelievers?

Answer
God is sovereign and can choose to answer any prayer He sees fit. But Scripture clearly indicates that God does not listen to or answer every prayer. In fact, Scripture gives at least fifteen reasons for unanswered prayer. God does not answer the prayer of those:

#1. Who have personal and selfish motives.
You ask and do not receive, because you ask amiss, that you may spend it on your pleasures (James 4:3).

#2. Who regard iniquity in their hearts.
If I regard iniquity in my heart, The Lord will not hear (Psalm 66:18).

#3. Who remain in sin.
But your iniquities have separated you from your God; And your sins have hidden His face from you, So that He will not hear (Isaiah 59:2).

Now we know that God does not hear sinners; but if anyone is a worshiper of God and does His will, He hears him (John 9:31).

#4. Who offer unworthy service to God.
“You offer defiled food on My altar. But say, ‘In what way have we defiled You?’ By saying, ‘The table of the Lord is contemptible.’ And when you offer the blind as a sacrifice, Is it not evil? And when you offer the lame and sick, Is it not evil? Offer it then to your governor! Would he be pleased with you? Would he accept you favorably?” Says the Lord of hosts. “But now entreat God’s favor, That He may be gracious to us. While this is being done by your hands, Will He accept you favorably?” Says the Lord of hosts (Malachi 1:7-9).

#5. Who forsake God.
Thus says the Lord to this people: “Thus they have loved to wander; They have not restrained their feet. Therefore the Lord does not accept them; He will remember their iniquity now, And punish their sins.” Then the Lord said to me, “Do not pray for this people, for their good. When they fast, I will not hear their cry; and when they offer burnt offering and grain offering, I will not accept them. But I will consume them by the sword, by the famine, and by the pestilence (Jeremiah 14:10-12). #6. Who reject God’s call.

Because I [Wisdom] have called and you refused, I have stretched out my hand and no one regarded, Because you disdained all my counsel, And would have none of my rebuke…. Then they will call on me, but I will not answer; They will seek me diligently, but they will not find me (Proverbs 1:24-25, 28).

#7. Who will not heed God’s law.
One who turns away his ear from hearing the law, Even his prayer is an abomination (Proverbs 28:9).

“But they refused to heed, shrugged their shoulders, and stopped their ears so that they could not hear. Yes, they made their hearts like flint, refusing to hear the law and the words which the Lord of hosts had sent by His Spirit through the former prophets. Thus great wrath came from the Lord of hosts. Therefore it happened, that just as He proclaimed and they would not hear, so they called out and I would not listen,” says the Lord of hosts” (Zechariah 7:11-13).

#8. Who turn a deaf ear to the cry of the poor.
Whoever shuts his ears to the cry of the poor, Will also cry himself and not be heard. (Proverbs 21:13).

#9. Who are violent.
When you spread out your hands, I will hide My eyes from you; Even though you make many prayers, I will not hear. Your hands are full of blood (Isaiah 1:15; see also 59:2-3).

#10. Who worship idols.
Therefore thus says the Lord: “Behold, I will surely bring calamity on them which they will not be able to escape; and though they cry out to Me, I will not listen to them. Then the cities of Judah and the inhabitants of Jerusalem will go and cry out to the gods to whom they offer incense, but they will not save them at all in the time of their trouble. For according to the number of your cities were your gods, O Judah; and according to the number of the streets of Jerusalem you have set up altars to that shameful thing, altars to burn incense to Baal. So do not pray for this people, or lift up a cry or prayer for them; for I will not hear them in the time that they cry out to Me because of their trouble.” (Jeremiah 11:11-14; see also Ezekiel 8:15-18).

#11. Who have no faith.
But let him ask in faith, with no doubting, for he who doubts is like a wave of the sea driven and tossed by the wind. For let not that man suppose that he will receive anything from the Lord (James 1:6-7).

#12. Who are living in hypocrisy.
Beware of the leaven of the Pharisees, which is hypocrisy (Luke 12:1).

#13. Who are proud of heart.
God resists the proud, but gives grace to the humble (James 4:6; 1 Peter 5:5).

#14. Who are self-righteous.
The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, “God, I thank You that I am not like other men-extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this tax collector. I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I possess.” And the tax collector, standing afar off, would not so much as raise his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, “God, be merciful to me a sinner!” I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted (Luke 18:11-14).

#15. Who mistreat God’s people.
You have also given me the necks of my enemies, So that I destroyed those who hated me. They cried out, but there was none to save; Even to the Lord, but He did not answer them (Psalm 18:40-41).

You who hate good and love evil; Who strip the skin from My people, And the flesh from their bones; Who also eat the flesh of My people, Flay their skin from them, Break their bones, And chop them in pieces, Like meat for the pot, Like flesh in the caldron. Then they will cry to the Lord, But He will not hear them; He will even hide His face from them at that time, Because they have been evil in their deeds (Micah 3:2-4).

So, does God answer the prayers of unbelievers? A strict yes or no answer is difficult without qualifying the answer in various ways. However, it is noteworthy that the above mentioned principles represent some of the key characteristics of an unbeliever. Thus we can safely say that, in general, God does not answer the prayers of an unbeliever.

One of the most decent things you could’ve done, was post up my reply/defense against Cush’s accusations concerning my supposed racism against white people, and my constant defense of those who compromise biblical truths-which are blatant lies. For you to keep his open falsehoods up there about me, without posting my responses/rebuttals, that challenges his false assertions/accusations and character, reveals a lot about your own character.

In other words, you may glibly say that you were protecting this thread, your readers, and/or the participants, from what I had to say, but in reality you merely protecting your boy from a righteous and well-deserved rebuke.

(MN: And I will continue to say it as long as you insist on bloviating and simply repeating yourself. After about the second or third comment, you rarely say anything new. This last one has become “It’s true. I know it’s true and you know it’s true. ” The readers deserve better than that. )

I don’t see any mention of mistreating homosexuals nor are they discriminated against. They are allowed to marry just as heterosexuals are (within scriptural boundaries). The homosexual issue is that they wish to have more rights than heterosexuals in addition to insisting that the Church condone their sin; which again is another demand for more ‘rights’.

If I have an intense desire to kill someone and the law prevents me from doing so, am I being discriminated against? Why can’t I kill them? I mean, I have an intense need to act upon this desire. Who said that I cannot kill them? It is He who said that if man takes another man’s life, he will pay with his blood. God defines sin and sets the penalty (i.e. death penalty). Whereas if a person kills someone by accident the penalty is not death but imprisonment (i.e. manslaughter): Exodus 21:12-14. In both situations, God Himself determines the sin and sets the penalty which for the most part this country follows - or used to.

God states that the sin of same-sex ‘unions’ is an abomination and the penalty for such is stoning. So if we use the Bible alone to determine society’s course of law homosexuals are receiving rights that they, according to scripture, should not have. And that is that they are allowed to breathe (Note: the moral law is not set aside, though the religious and ceremonial law is).

You cannot say on one hand that homosexual behavior is an abomination and on the other seek to provide additional rights in support of their behavior. Note that I said behavior - there is no gay gene just as there is no lying gene though there are genes that determine both race and gender. Note also that there is no comment whatsoever in scripture about race, and gender is mentioned only to the extent to mandate roles within the home and the Church.

Homosexuality is not the same as being born whatever race one happens to be born to. It is a behavior and must be restrained within a civilized society. If that is discrimination, all I can say is that you’ll have to address the matter to The Judge of all the Earth.

*I know. He even has mercy on those who are in error.