(MN:

)

Seriously Mel,what’s the use??

Borg.

They say to avoid talking about religion and politics

I say we should talk about both

If I’m understanding your point correctly, it almost implies that because your children did well and others were successful, that there is no legitimate complaint about racism.

(MN: No. I’m saying people are no more capable of realizing their dreams now than they were before Obama won the election. Nothing more. Certainly there is racism. Didn’t I tell the bakery lady to kick up a fuss? )

If you look at some of the lopsided statistics (particularly where the justice system is concerned), in order to be of this mindset you have to believe that blacks are inferior. The only other option is blacks are treated differently. (MN: Moot. I don’t believe that which you said. )

Also American racism needs to really be broke down beyond the individual bigoted statements and actions. Racism is a product of American colonialism (aka the slave trade), and racism is a lot deeper than individual statements; Racism is institutionalized and about institutions, which in turn influence how people think of others, whether they admit it or not.

(MN: Hogwash. You sound like a poverty pimp when they constantly try to flail White America into giving them money. According to them White America is guilty. White America will always be guilty. Just out of curiousity, what are the institutions in which racism is practiced? And understand here that I am talking about institution that have public, established policies of racism. For example,

Given all of these examples, what are you calling institutionalized racism? The fact that Billy Bob Jughead, a NASCAR enthusiast, doesn’t think Joe Crankshaft should be a NASCAR driver because Joe Crankshaft is Black? NOT institutionalized. )

Basically, it seems like you are doing what you accuse those who follow the pimps of doing: and that is using your personal experience to come to a conclusion that really is not based on reality or truth.

(MN: Hogwash. Your statement of my view was not true. Your definition of “institutional” is non-existent. Until you define what you mean by that term [as I have given you many, many examples of the usual definition], we are at best talking past each other.

IF you are saying racism is still out there - certainly. But I already said that. )

And the reality and truth is that black folks have a reason to complain about racism. (MN: Everyone has a reason to complain about racism [aka prejudice]. Not just Blacks. )

Peace and blessings

(MN: If it’s the way you normally do, yes. )

I’m not trying to keep this one going, but I disagree with your assessment of the speech being hateful. It was offensive to some, but not hateful.

Calling the US the US of KKK A is a playful exaggeration, but in light of the foundation of colonialism that turned into racism, it’s not really a long stretch.

(MN: Your use of the term “colonialism” isn’t really appropriate here. Blacks were not under the boot of foreigners who came in and colonized their land. It was the Whites who were under the boot of colonialism. )

His suggesting that the government initiated AIDS is not that long of a stretch considering it’s historical pattern, including the Tuskegee Experiment, Project MKNAOMI and Margaret Sanger’s Negro Project.

(MN: Interesting. All of the things you keep mentioning are activities initiated by LIBERALS/PROGRESSIVES, not those racist conservatives. By the way, Margaret Sanger’s negro project is still going on. Already her idea has managed to kill over 13 million black babies since the ROe v Wade decision. Are abortion clinics institutionalized racism? And if they are, what is the institution? )

What was the context of him claiming “we deserved the attack on 9/11″? Was this quote taken from the context of a critique of our foreign policy and our unjust wars? (MN: You have to assume that the wars are unjust. At this point we are simply trading opinions. [One of the reasons I have not been particularly interested in discussing politics on this site. I love doing it in general. )

In many of Paul’s letters/epistles, he talks about his opposition from the “Jews”. Some of his language is strong and offensive. Does that make him hateful or anti-Semitic? Not at all. (MN: He states fact. The Jews were giving him a hard time. Far cry from the roosting chickens. )

With all due respect (and a lot is due you from me Bro), but I can’t get with a lot of the “conservative” indoctrinations when it comes to many of the things that are addressed on the Obama topic.

(MN: Examples of the conservative indoctrination? )

Peace and blessings

(A) That is teh dangerous thing…..as Christians, is this acceptable? Are we to endorse one who we believe is deliberately giving false info to gain entry into office?

Shall we sin (deliberatly lie) so that the grace of God can about more? Paul answered this question very specifically.

Let me ask you a hypothetical question, and based on how you answer the question, will determine a lot from my end, and how I will handle the tone of a future discussion, and that is-if Obama wasn’t pro-abortion (which is the deal breaker you seem to have with this guy), would there be a possibility of you voting for him.

(MN: My dislike for Obama is not a single issue thing. I object to:

1. His Marxist leanings
2. His support for Hoosexual rights/marriage/etc
3. His Liberal/Fascist approach to governing and social organization
4. His apparent dislike for the country
5. His desire nationalize health care
6. His willingness to raise taxes on all who make more than $250K and cut a check to some of the 95% he is going to give a tax cut to
7. His apparent desire to make over our economy so that we are like Europe
8. His apparent desire to appoint Justices whose judicial philosophy will significantly change the character of this country and make even greater intrusions by the government into our lives possible.
9. His limp-wristed view toward terrorism and his desire to try terrorist in US courts.
10. His associations and alliances with men and women who have proven they hate America as it is now and would try to force us into a Marxist government. )

Or, if you didn’t vote for him, would you be as passionate in disparaging him, as you are now?

(MN: Yes. I would still have nine other things to complain about. Nine items that are very critical to the survival of this country as this country. )

And a coupla posts ago, you said something about Bill Clinton and Obama. Please refresh me with the question, or your statement addressed to me. You see, this thread is sooooooooooo long, to where I’m becoming weary of traveling up and down this site, to catch everything some addressed to me.

(MN: People railed against Clinton same as they are against Obama. No more, and certainly no less. And when Hillary “Nurse Ratchet” Clinton tried to implement what amounted to national health care, we railed against her too. It’s not about Black and White and it not just about abortion. )

(MN: Responsibility)

*I never suggested otherwise, so what are you talking about?

*I never suggested otherwise. I think you may need to get a grip.

If you bothered to read, instead of being full of political venom, you would see that I WAS DEFENDING RIGHTER, not opposing her.

-What was shortsighted, myopic , or bigoted in Righter’s statement??

*I don’t know, you tell me. Obviously you’re my abreast of the situation, seeing as how, AGAIN, I didn’t even address Righter in such a way. I think I was going after Darla or some other person who said that black folks ought to repent for voting for Obama.

-Better yet, instead of making us guess, why don’t you tell us why YOU voted for Obama in light of his promotion and support for that which the Bible calls abomination (every form of abortion imaginable, homosexual unions)??

*This is why I said that you ought to get a grip, instead of being full of hateful political venom, for if you read my other posts (which you’re not really obliged to, but it is something that I do, before I zone in on someone, in attack mode), you will see where I admitted not voting for Obama.

Again man, you must get a grip.

And as far as homosexual unions, well-Obama is against gay marriages, and supports the same kind of civil unions that Sarah Palin and John McCain supports.

Oh, but I guess it’s alright with them, seeing as how they’re anti-abortion?

And as far as the abortion thing goes-are you sure you falling over the deep end? I mean seriously? Can you produce evidence/proof where he’s even supportive of late term abortion, or abortions of all kind?

And even if he is, that’s not telling me much about his sinful ways, no more than it is telling me about John McCain who doesn’t believe in universal healthcare, an increase in the minimum wage, etc.

To me, those issues are just as important, or near as important as the abortion issue.

-Seriously, I would really like to know the rationale employed to, on the one hand claim Christ,and on the other hand vote for someone who promotes things which Christ calls abominations.

*Folks for centuries have voted for sinful men, who believed in, and allowed all types of ungodly acts, and many christians didn’t have problems voting for these men.

You want the rationale, the rationale is that when you choose a leader of a country, that is a pluralistic society, the person you’re choosing to lead may, or may not be regenerated. Likewise, there will be issues that you may, or not agree with, but you look at the broader landscape, and not relegate yourself to being a single issue voter.

-I’m not trying to be confrontational or aggressive. I’m really curious.

*Well that’s fine and all, but I’m just going to let you in on a secret, and that is on up until now-I’ve been handling folks with kid gloves.

But we shall see as time progress. That may not be a Godly tactic.

-Help me understand your thought process in light of your stated beliefs, which oppose the policies which Obama advocates.

*You’ve repeated the same question in so many ways, to where now you have me confused. Just what are you asking?

I don’t see it that way. Again, what hateful thing did he say or preach, as you put it.

(MN: Calling the United States the “U S of KKK A”, accusing the government of initiating the AIDS virus, claiming we deserved the attack on 9/11. )

Are you implying that it’s okay to be “hateful” in day to day relationships?

(MN: Quite the opposite. Bishop is making it sound as though it’s okay to be hateful occassionally. )

And that’s kind of a stretch for you to say that I’m justifying quotations from LF.

(MN: Not justifying spercific quotations. Rather, according to Bishop, the standard seems to be “occassional isn’t bad.” Louie doesn’t always spew hate. So according to Bishop Louie isn’t hateful. )

However, she hasn’t said who she voted for because it’s none of anybody’s business.

In like manner, she’s not arguing for either candidate one way or the other because all voters have the right to vote for the candidate of their choice.

Like she’s always told you and maybe one day you will finally “get it”, any conclusion you come to is fine-but the fact of the matter is you will never know what her ballad indicated–:-)

Nice try-but Righter says it’s insufficient…

(mn: As I said ladies and gentlemen, accusations of racism will continue. It’s the standard knee-jerk reaction. And yes, Bill Clinton was villified. So was Abe Lincoln. So was Nixon, etc, etc., etc. Rather than behaving as if history started when you became aware, try doing just a little reading. Just a little. And actually, no one is painting him as an enemy of God since ALL unsaved are an enemy of God. He is simply an enemy of God with a lot of policy plans that are really bad. Have previous presidents promised to authorize payment of abortions as a part of foreign aid? Have previous P-Es shown themselves to be amenable to the legalization of homosexual marriages? )

Don’t look for secular leaders to be pastors. Your pastor hopefully is at your church. World leaders are just that. The U.S. government is not a theocracy, but thank God, He is still in control.

This is not just about what the people wanted. God is in control of this thing. Obama is not my savior, but he is my choice as president. And even if McCain had won, I would have supported him. These people cannot help me with my walk with Christ, but they can certainly do something about these taxes and these economic problems. That’s all I need them to do–take care of political things, not spiritual things.

(MN: Ah yes. The new mantra is: God is in control - shut your mouth. Don’t you understand that often political things get intertwined with the political? )

Political conservatism does NOT equal Christianity.

I’ve been watching the forum to see if a response was forth-coming to my question about our brother, George Muller. Since you raised the issue of of my possibly misusing scripture, I find it a bit perplexing that you haven’t addressed my reply to you. I’m sure that it’s simply a case of a post being overlooked. A request, though; please avoid another highly debatable eschatological dissertation in your response. Thanks.

~ Walks (Le femme)

What was hateful speech that came out of the mouth, because I don’t see/hear it that way…not contextually anyway.

Has he said that he hates him or her; this or that?

(MN: Preparing a sermon is significantly different than day to day relationships. Give it up TJ. Spewing hate from the lectern is neither acceptable nor excusable. Stop trying to justify his behavior by comparing to things simply not comparable.

Or are you really trying to say that Louis “Calypso Louie” Farrakhan talking about a dirty religion, white devils and the such are only occasional and therefore excusable? )

I said:

-The poverty pimps and the White liberals use race as a divider and a money maker. They convince Blacks that Blacks need them to accomplish anything. They convince Blacks that America is nothing but a racist training camp filled with little KKK wannabes. The fact that America elected a Black man for president is likely going to do nothing to give a lie to the poverty pimps and the White liberals. They need their jobs.

*Likewise, the racist republican conservative pimps, claim that black folks want to take the money of hard working white people, and pad their own wallets and accounts, because they are lazy. They convince poor white folks, who would do well with an increase in the minimum wage, and semi-universal, or accessible health care, that if they voted for those who offer such things, then you are not much better than the inner city black welfare recipient, afraid to work, and are looking for manna to fall from heaven.

Whereby you have a lot of white working poor, who will vote against their own interests, simply because republican conservative, elitist pimps, have convinced them that they are on their side, when in reality-they’re not.

In other words, these repubs will pimp the average joe six pack, and hockey mom, through implied racial fear, and more disgustingly, SUPPOSED SHARED VALUES, that are biblically rooted (e.g. anti-abortion, anti-gay marriage, etc.).

Pimping goes on, on both sides, and is something that conservatives need to man up to. This isn’t to say that the liberal side doesn’t play the race card, but so does elitist republicans. They only mask their attacks differently, while using the bible, patriotism, and “heartland” values.

And the ironic thing about all of this is, you even have intelligent black folks drinking their kool aid.

Whereas Melvin said:

Lots of generalities, little in the way of substance.

My response:

That’s the general response you have towards most of my posts, to where I’ve become immune to such criticism. Well, I’m not being all that forthcoming. You see, I I haven’t become immune to such criticisms, rather I was immune to such criticisms from the beginning.

Oh well, let’s move on…

Melvin said:

You’ll have to give some examples.

My response:

What examples are you referring to? I’ve already given specific examples. They may not be the examples you like, or appreciate all that much, but I have given examples of where I’m coming from.

Melvin said:

I was pretty specific.

My response:

So was I.

Melvin said:

Conservatives don’t want nationalized health care.

My response:

I know this, and?

Melvin said:

We don’t want all of the stuff you have mentioned.

My response:

Okay?

Melvin said:

Now, the RINOs (Republicans in Name Only) do a lot of what you are talking about. In fact, they keep emulating the Dems.

My response:

In some ways, they ought to. Not everything a liberal, or dem proposes, for the social welfare of society, is evil, wicked, and hideous, you know?

Melvin said:

One thing I need to make sure you do - you must differentiate between being a conservative and being a Republican.

My response:

I already know the difference, and likewise, folks on here must know the difference between someone who’s unsaved, and voted for McCain, and someone who can be saved, yet they voted for Obama, for in the end they’re not single issue voters.

And mind you again, God is my witness-I DIDN’T EVEN VOTE FOR OBAMA, AND I’M A REGISTERED INDEPENDENT VOTER.

With that said, those who voted for Bush, and the Congress we had during the previous six years, whether they were conservative or not-they were all republican, OR FOUGHT UNDER THAT FLAG.

Melvin said:

The two are not necessarily the same.

My response:

Okay, so what’s your point?

Melvin said:

By its very nature, Conservatism doesn’t pimp.

My response:

Conservatives who are politicians, radio talk show hosts, or whoever, with an agenda to foment their beliefs, do indeed pimp, through their words. No ideology created by man, is immune of pimps.

Melvin said:

Liberalism does.

My response:

Conservatism does to…

Melvin said:

Conservatism doesn’t attempt to control your life.

My response:

That maybe true, however, they sure don’t attempt to enhance your life. Besides, conservatives, whether they were republican or democrats back in the day, have a history of trying to control folks lives, and will control more if they had the chance.

In other words, liberals control, by imposing, whereas conservatives control, by depriving…

Melvin said:

Liberalism always attempts to control you life.

My response:

Spoken like a true ideologue/libertarian…

(MN: Yes. )

America aint NEVER been a “Christian” nation. The American Government is responsible for some of the worst violation of human rights in the history of the world. America is and has ALWAYS been a hipocritical nation.

(MN: I don’t think the United States is a Christian nation. But it is difficult to credibly argue that the United States was not founded on Christian principals. Have we always lived up to them? No. Does that make us hypocritical? No more than me not living up perfectly to the principals that guide my behavior as a husband makes me so.

The issue with Obama is not that he is going to doom the nation to destruction at the hand of God. Heck, if God didn’t destroy the nation when Woodrow Wilson and FDR were presidents, He isn’t going to do so now - not just because BO is in office. The issue with BO is that apparently thinking Christians have managed to convince themselves that he is a practicing Christian rather than a Marxist, socialist, humanistic opportunist. )