“HEY BOO BOO !!!” Nice to see you back my friend!!

By the way, I’m still here although school is pretty tough. Have been pulling clinicals in the OR witnessing surgeries up close and personal, and then in the post-anesthesia care unit as they wake up from those surgeries. Sometimes they wake up calm and easy and other times panicked and in pain (have given lots of morphine and demerol injections IV). In a couple of weeks, I’ll be working in labor and delivery … (I’m a little apprehensive about that, as the only experience I have is delivering puppies!). Anyway, just wanted to pop in and say hello. I missed you all while this site was down. All I saw was a white screen that said “it works!” Glad to see now that it really does!

By the way … I have no hard feelings towards you Lafe !!! I hope you feel the same towards me … truce?

Please stay out here in the open, Warrior! I’ve been seeing this on other blogs as well - christians who contend against scripture. They usually take the position that the biblically sound Christian and /or blog is being ‘unkind/unloving/judgmental’ and when all else fails they lob the charge - “Pharisee”. That will usually shut down anyone who reads the Word of God, fully and who is willing to contend for the faith.

What Lafe and others like her fail to understand is that the biblically-sound, God-fearing Christian can carve the dreck away from an issue simply by noting when a self-professing christian rebels against the Word of God. They simply will not submit to its authority. They not only rebel themselves, but protect and, in many cases applaud, the wolves who are being exposed as rebels against God Himself.

Bottom line, we’re seeing two rebels in action in the Osteens. He for his false gospel, and she for being a co-pastor. It doesn’t matter if they are sweet as sugar from now until the Rapture of the Church. The fact that they are rebels against the Word of God - which constitutes rebellion against Him personally - negates any behind the scenes chats with them. Call the spade a spade. Better yet, let me quote Someone, a couple of “white-washed tombs full of dead men’s bones.”

And before any christian can pull out ‘judge not lest ye be judge’, let me answer now from the Word of God:

1 Corinthians 5:11-13 (ESV)
But now I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of brother if he is guilty of sexual immorality or greed, or is an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or swindler—not even to eat with such a one. For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Is it not those inside the church whom you are to judge? God judges those outside. “Purge the evil person from among you.”

So, BBD….please stay out here with the rest of us Pharisees. Iron sharpens iron.

Nur Leser??

Das sei ferne, mein Bruder!

Peter.

In all honesty your splitting hairs. It is obvious by the FAA that Vicky was causing a disturbance for the pilot. Lafe are you saying the Govt. was lying? It is also obvious that she was fined for this disturbance. In fact lets put aside the plaintiff which was clearly out to bilk the Osteens out of their multi-millions OK. What is important is that she was clearly fined and cited by a government agency.

Basically Vicky had a tantrum and a hissy fit and she felt justified in causing a commotion and demanding her seat cleaned as any good Pimptress would do. She probably did push/nudge the person in question but not because of racism but because of class. She like all Pimps black or White put themselves in the “anointed” category. They in their minds assume that God himself has anointed them to a level beyond the common person. They assume themselves untouchable and think it is you who needs to serve them.

In closing lets look at this with some common sense Lafe. If you get into an auto accident and you were cited for failure to yield the right of way and paid the fine did you not agree to the charges? Yes of course! Now lets assume the person you hit is a gold digger and brought you to civil court and you won. That does not negate the fact that you were at fault it just could not be proved in a court of law that your misdemeanor caused harm to the plaintiff.

Kyle

I have read other comments you have made elsewhere on this site and I realize that you do not necessarily defend ALL pimps and pimpettes, but you have ferociously defended this one! It’s as if you take PERSONALLY anything that has been said against her, and I am simply amazed by that … who is this woman to you what has she done to warrant such blind devotion and support? I am simply amazed and quite frankly dumbfounded how you cannot see her for what she is! I do not have anything personal against you Lafe, and I am certainly not trying to change your mind, but it appears that you do have something personal against me when it comes to me calling Mrs. Osteen a sinner in need of repentance. I said you were talking out of both sides of your mouth because you do indeed refuse to acknowledge that she is a pimpette and thus defend her, while at the same time saying you do not defend pimps. Additionally, for some reason, instead of trying to understand that I was calling you on this, you take offense at my words try to insult me as if I were too simplistic to understand. However you meant it, I shall take it as a compliment … I do admit, I try my best to keep things as simple as I can. I think the problem here lies in the fact that for some reason you do not think she is a pimpette and I do, and it is as simple as that.

Secondly, you keep telling me that what we are talking about is an apology not being given, and I have already told you that is not what I am talking about. Stop trying to drag me down a road that I am not trying to go down … how many times must I keep saying here that it is NOT about her lack of an apology with me???? Unsaved people do not (always) apologize for what they do, and I do not EXPECT Mrs. Osteen to do so, so why do you think that I am angry at her for not apologizing? And why do you assume that I am trying damn her to hell simply because she hasn’t apologized for the act on the plane???? I have said it before and you still haven’t gotten it … her lack of an apology is NOT the issue, but a SYMPTOM of a bigger issue: she is not saved. I am taking issue with the fact that she is a non-christian passing herself off to be a christian and leading unsuspecting followers down the wrong road, and her uncontrite performance is one of the ways I see that. “Why canst thou not understand my speech?”

And lastly (because with this comment, I am truly finished with this pointless conversation), as if it weren’t enough for you to tell me what I am talking about (so perhaps you could be justified in reviling me?), you now sit there and try to presume how I feel about the verdict? What makes you think that I would be in “high celebration” or smile at my “righteous remarks” if she had lost … or what makes you think that her winning is a “bitter pill” for me to swallow? Lafe, you are being presumptuous of me I think simply because you do not LIKE me. Because I dare to call the pimpette an unsaved individual, does that make me some kind of self-righteous bigot in your eyes? I know you do not like me Lafe, but my true feelings are far from what you think. This whole situation is a sad affair that I wish had never happened, because it does indeed bring shame on Christ’s name in the eyes of the world, and ALL of it could have been avoided if Mrs Osteen (as a professed christian) only knew the basics of how professed christians should act vis a vis the world. If she had been any other sinner out there would this even be an issue? No. But the world latches on to the unchristlike actions of these high profile pimp preachers (and their wives) for the sole purpose of bringing shame on Christ’s name and if there were anything that you could accuse me of being angry about, that would be it. It ain’t about no stupid lack of an apology!!

Lafe, I have truly done my best in all of my comments here to go out of my way in explaining where I am coming from. I make all of my comments here in keeping with what I understand the purpose of this site to be and that is to warn the people about the falsehood of pimps and pimpettes. And if you really want to know what is truly a “bitter pill for me to swallow” it is how you just don’t get that! And after all you have said against me and the others here who have endeavored to speak the truth boldly to you, if you really want to continue with the accusations of being self-righteous, you might want to go have a look in the mirror.

I am through talking to you about it Lafe. This has been a very unpleasant experience for me, so it’s probably time for me to go back to just being a reader again if for no other reason but to keep the peace here. I believe I have adequately presented where I stand regarding pimps. Keep up the good fight Melvin … this site is a work of God!

(MN: No!! No!!! Don’t go back to just being a reader! Just learn that you don’t have to respond to every awful thing someone may say to you. I give the readers credit for being smart enough and honest enough to read the whole conversation. )

“I believe that the FAA found her in violation as to her attempts to interfere with the pilot/cockpit/cabin issues when she wanted to present her protests to the captain of the plane.”

My response:

And in the process, did she do what the plaintiff, and her witness, said she did, and that is elbow the attendant in the chest? That’s what I want to figure out.

Likewise, did she ever apologize for her behavior, based on the FAA fine, or did she just pay the fine, and said “Oh well,” to the rest.

Even though I wasn’t there, I do think something happened between the attendant and Victoria, HOWEVER, having said that, I didn’t believe in the bogus lawsuit, but I do believe Victoria should’ve offered an apology.

She should’ve been gracioius and offered an apology to someone, whether it be the FAA or the attendant, because she obviously was found guilty of something, for her to have paid a fine.

As Melvin pointed out, the jury only had to decide if a physical assault took place that deemed the awarding of damages. Even a passenger testified that Mrs. Osteen had a war of words, or battle of the wills with the flight attendant, and inidcated that Osteen blocked the aisle inappropriately, but did not hit the flight attendant.

I think that this “battle of the wills” (which caused a disturbance serious enough to warrant them having to deplane and inconvenience the other passengers )deserves an apology from Mrs. Osteen. Although Ms. Brown was probably rude in return, Mrs. Osteen remembering that a “soft answer turneth away wrath” could have ameliorated the ignited situation, before they had toleave the plane…. before the FAA fine…before it all came this far…..

(MN: Good word, by the way. )

I believe the FAA fined her for a reason. I mean, they just don’t fine folks ordinarily, for nothing at all.

I think this was a civil court trial, similar to OJ’s trial. He was found innocent of criminal activity in the criminal trial, but was found guilty in the civil trial, where he had to cough up some money.

In this case, it was just the reverse. Even though the FAA isn’t a “criminal court”, nor have criminal jurisdiction, nevertheless they, in their own way, found Victoria guilty of untoward behavior (behavior she may have not apologized for), whereas she was found innocent in a civil trial, that was seeking monetary (not criminal) damages.

I think this is how it broke down. I could be wrong…

Melvin

(MN: By the way, I don’t refer to her as a pimpette because of the incident on the plane. She was a pimpette before she ever stepped on the plane. )

You hit the nail on the head, and I couldn’t have said it better myself. THANK YOU!

This fact about them (or anyone else who are rich the same way) makes the Osteens ravening wolves in sheep’s clothing (with smooth words dripping like saliva off those enormous teeth of his) if I understand at all what Jesus means by that term. The incident in the airplane is the crack in the ceiling, the tornado is their wealth and the house is their lives. In connection with their predatory self-help ministry, the airplane incident fits very well. They can praise the Lord all they want for the jury’s verdict, but will such goodness shown to them lead to repentance?

Either, her defenders here are unlearned and gullible believers (I was once); or, they themselves are wolves-in-training. There can’t be a third option. So, the question should not be “how dare anyone question her salvation over this incident,” but, rather, “how in the world can those two get saved after profiting off a worldly gospel?” The answer is if they both repent of ripping off the Body and restore this ill-gotten wealth somehow. Barring a major miracle (and a huge Zacchean effort), I don’t see that happening. If it does, I’ll be first in line to shower praise on them. Until then, I’ll “pick up a weapon, and stand a post” against them and all like them (the weapon being a vigilant use of the rightly-divided Word of God).

(MN: No. This was not a criminal case. The key paragraph is, I believe:

The jury was asked to decide whether Brown was assaulted and, if she was, whether she deserved damages for what she alleged was an assault onboard an airliner that was preparing to head to Vail, Colo., in December 2005.

San Antonio Newspaper

Victoria Osteen’s prima dona behavior in demanding immediate care on a busy flight (which seemed confirmed in court testimony) will be shrugged off by her adoring congregation. I didn’t hear that she or Joel apologized after the trial for the snooty behavior that got her there in the first place. If she had conducted herself in a humble manner, there would have been no FAA fine. I also wonder what happened between the time the witness for the plaintiff told Mr. McKamie her story, which aligned with what the flight attendants said, and when said witness appeared on the witness stand with a totally different account that shocked attorney McKamie, and pretty much tanked Ms Brown’s case along with the passengers’ and pilot’s testimonies. What made that witness turn “180 degrees” as Atty. McKamie stated? He would never had her on the stand to give such a damaging testimony to be met with glee by, and used by, Osteen’s attorney! Something seems amiss.

Also, I think McKamie’s inexperience was no match for Victoria Osteen’s “bevy of attorneys” as one news article put it. It did not appear that Sharon Brown had such a “bevy” as the moneyed Osteen’s could afford. I can’t help but observe that Osteen’s astute lawyering-up with well-know attorney’s ( and I am sure expensive ones) gave her an advantage. Sharon Brown’s excessive, seemly exagerated claims didn’t help her credibility from the get-go, either!

I have conflicting feelings regarding the jury’s verdict; I am glad a money-grab based on some alleged false accusations was thwarted on one hand, but I also wish there had been some admonition to Victoria Osteen to conduct herself with more propriety in public venues. The whole thing was an emarassment for Christians and a source of amusement for the world. Look for this incident to be used by the Osteens and their fans to assert God’s “favor” for Lakewood’s ministry. On the other hand , in Vickie praising God on hearing the verdict, the world( which sees the Osteens as respresentatives of Chrisitianity) may see this as the Lord protecting His own. On the other hand again, I just can’t stand an opportunity to be available with this verdict for the Osteens to capitalize upon and draw more biblically unstable Chrisitians into their false doctirines.

I pray that both sides of that court case understand their follies. In spite of all the questions I have, I know the Lord God is sovereign.